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jtpaull
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If I had a genie and 3 wishes

If I had a genie and 3 wishes, my third wish would be for MWM to have a team the size of Blizzard just for CoT.

All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.

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jtpaull wrote:
jtpaull wrote:

If I had a genie and 3 wishes, my third wish would be for MWM to have a team the size of Blizzard just for CoT.

As a genie,I would say “As you wish...”

The entire MWM is as ripped as Iron Man’s nemesis Blizzard.

They have to spend time and money to buy new clothes, causing a small delay in production.

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Atama wrote:
Atama wrote:
jtpaull wrote:

If I had a genie and 3 wishes, my third wish would be for MWM to have a team the size of Blizzard just for CoT.

As a genie,I would say “As you wish...”

The entire MWM is as ripped as Iron Man’s nemesis Blizzard.

They have to spend time and money to buy new clothes, causing a small delay in production.

I guess it's a good thing my first wish would be for $$$.

All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.

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jtpaull wrote:
jtpaull wrote:
Atama wrote:
jtpaull wrote:

If I had a genie and 3 wishes, my third wish would be for MWM to have a team the size of Blizzard just for CoT.

As a genie,I would say “As you wish...”

The entire MWM is as ripped as Iron Man’s nemesis Blizzard.

They have to spend time and money to buy new clothes, causing a small delay in production.

I guess it's a good thing my first wish would be for $$$.

Amateurs... whenever you get "wishes" the first wish you always wish for is more wishes... ;)

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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Ixnay on the wishing for more

Ixnay on the wishing for more wishes, three, that’s it, no exchanges or refunds.

"A sad spectacle. If they be inhabited, what a scope for misery and folly. If they be not inhabited, what a waste of space." ~ Thomas Carlyle

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rookslide wrote:
rookslide wrote:

Ixnay on the wishing for more wishes, three, that’s it, no exchanges or refunds.

Whatever... but you should always at least -try- to get more wishes before you worry about anything else. ;)

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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Or you could wish to make

Or you could wish to make yourself a free genie...then you get unlimited wishes, right?

All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.

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jtpaull wrote:
jtpaull wrote:

Or you could wish to make yourself a free genie...then you get unlimited wishes, right?

PHENOMINAL COSMIC POWER..... ittybittylivingspace

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jtpaull wrote:
jtpaull wrote:

Or you could wish to make yourself a free genie...then you get unlimited wishes, right?

That might work... apparently genies can't free themselves but I don't see why their wishes can't make someone else a free genie. ;)

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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I don’t know I was under the

I don’t know I was under the impression a genie had to be freed by their master but none were created free. And you can guess how often that happens...

"A sad spectacle. If they be inhabited, what a scope for misery and folly. If they be not inhabited, what a waste of space." ~ Thomas Carlyle

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Don't wish for more wishes,

Don't wish for more wishes, wish for more genies.

"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."

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rookslide wrote:
rookslide wrote:

I don’t know I was under the impression a genie had to be freed by their master but none were created free. And you can guess how often that happens...

Sure a "natural-born" genie (for lack of a better term) might have to start with a master. But would a random wish be able to transform an average human into a "masterless genie"? You're not "creating" the human, just transforming them.

This might be the basis for an interesting CoT character. ;)

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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An interesting query?

An interesting query?

"A sad spectacle. If they be inhabited, what a scope for misery and folly. If they be not inhabited, what a waste of space." ~ Thomas Carlyle

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That project Gorgon game

That project Gorgon game making it to Steam and getting positive reviews is interesting. I have to wonder if we will see CoT or SoH on Steam in the near future.

As a child, I thought my name was handsome, cause that is what everyone called me.

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the obvious wish would be to

the obvious wish would be to make yourself a powerful wizard then you wouldn't need a genie. Just don't get greedy!

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I get the impression CoT

I get the impression CoT seems to be playing cautiously and biding their time until they have a fairly impressive project before putting it on display. Not a bad move if you can afford to do it since you only get one first impression and people rarely come back for a second look if they aren't impressed.

I do really hope CoT gets to steam when they are ready though.

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TheInternetJanitor wrote:
TheInternetJanitor wrote:

I get the impression CoT seems to be playing cautiously and biding their time until they have a fairly impressive project before putting it on display. Not a bad move if you can afford to do it since you only get one first impression and people rarely come back for a second look if they aren't impressed.

Yes, this has been made clear. And I believe the closer we get to launch the more professional MWM needs to make their image.


I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
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TheInternetJanitor wrote:
TheInternetJanitor wrote:

I get the impression CoT seems to be playing cautiously and biding their time until they have a fairly impressive project before putting it on display. Not a bad move if you can afford to do it since you only get one first impression and people rarely come back for a second look if they aren't impressed.

I do really hope CoT gets to steam when they are ready though.

Welcome to the forums, and by that I mean:

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Thanks Cobalt!

Thanks Cobalt!

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TheInternetJanitor wrote:
TheInternetJanitor wrote:

Thanks Cobalt!

My computer has a recycle bin, does the Internet? Do you empty it?

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I'm more partial to mops and

I'm more partial to mops and brooms, they make for better catchphrases and double as a way to whomp on bad guys in a pinch.

It lends a little more flavor when you strike a pose after defeating evildoers and declare that you're cleaning up the town. Or that you're taking out the trash, making a clean sweep of the streets, cleaning their clocks....

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TheInternetJanitor wrote:
TheInternetJanitor wrote:

I'm more partial to mops and brooms, they make for better catchphrases and double as a way to whomp on bad guys in a pinch.

It lends a little more flavor when you strike a pose after defeating evildoers and declare that you're cleaning up the town. Or that you're taking out the trash, making a clean sweep of the streets, cleaning their clocks....

Moxie, sir.

You've got it.

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Doctor Tyche wrote:
Doctor Tyche wrote:
MeSoSollyWan wrote:

Since this has become the go-to thread to talk about "other Superhero MMORPGs" I'm gonna toss this here:

https://www.shipofheroes.com/schedule-to-release/

Milestone update for Ship of Heroes

While I'm not particularly excited for this game, at all, I am a big fan of their method of communication. They try to be very vocal about devo, their visible timeline is nice, and they always have a lot of visuals with each post.

I like it as well. If we had a full time, paid staff as they had, we could make such charts as well. But we are a work-as-available group of unpaid volunteers, so such a chart is counterproductive.

Would you or anyone else care to clarify why such a chart like this would be counterproductive? It basically implies that you are incapable of setting goals and meeting those goals. Not really a good perception to be putting out there. Even if you fail to meet the goals, at least people would know what your goals are, and where things stand in the development process. The unfocused trickle of information makes people skeptical, and for good reason. Even if it's not a flashy graphic like this, a trello (which I would hope you are using, or something like it anyway), would be useful to let the community know where things stand, and how they're progressing. It really shouldn't be an extra investment of time to make something public which you already have in use.

I don't think this would be counterproductive at all, to the contrary, it would be very productive to reassure the community that you are actually making good progress and using the funds that you raised in an efficient manner, and helpful in raising funds to help get the project finished. Right now, it's anyone's guess as to where you actually are in the development process, and how much more you have left before it is ready for public testing. If you have a kickstarter tomorrow, it's going to be hard to get people to trust you will actually finish the game any time soon, given your track records and lack of information. Knowledge is power, and your reluctance to share what you know about where you are in development is very disconcerting to me.

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It is counter productive for

It is counter productive for us. While we have a group of dedicated volunteers - we are all just that - volunteers.

It has happened, and is bound to again, where someone is giving a project and that someone drops off the face of the planet. Leaving work incomplete. And since they work remotely, hey may not have uploaded any work to your repo. Leaving it up to someone else to pick up the slack.

Most likely that someone else was also already working on something. And that something has to be paused, or both worked on and / off for a long while. Causing production to slow.

Also, many of us have other jobs, work from home during our family time (for those of us that have families). Which all god to say is that we put in part time work in what is a full time job.

Now anyone who has ever worked in the gaming industry will tell you -

Having s schedule is good, but never expect to keep
It - until you are forced to. When production hinges on multiple people from multiple departments and one small change can lead to a shift in one person’s time line - it has a cascade effect on others’ time lines, effecting the time line of all production.

Eventually, the marketing and sales deptaents settle in a hard date. And all those little set backs catch up with you - resulting in the inevitable “crunch time”. Where people can often times work 80-120 hours a week in order to get the project completed and ready to ship.

This is also why lately many games have released with many large bugs that are meant to be patched or later.
Ones because they can be parched (unlike days of old) and also because there is no leeeay once that hard date is set.

So how theh do you set a hard date with a team of unpaid part-time working volunteers who have no calaciry to handle “crunch time”?

The answer is you don’t. You plan an extended time line with rough range of dates to hit milestones in production.
If we were to release a chart it would be so nebulous that to the outside - many would think we were crazy and not fully grasp the nature of our work force and how we operate.

Only those few who come to the forums and new us would understand. To everyone else who doesn’t understand - would lead to a lot of negativity. And that is detrimental to us.


I don't use a nerf bat, I have a magic crowbar!
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Not all management needs that

Not all management needs that degree of structure. Many might find a chart like this an added stressor that interferes with their workflow. This is especially true for more independent pesonalities who favor autonomy and personal responsibility over an imposed structure.
I have worked for companies that didn't use these types of charts and didn't even have "Staff meetings"... for years without issue!! And that was a job where some of the projects involved would change day to day while others never shifted.
Smaller teams (5-30) may not need this sort of approach as internal communication and coordination can be more fluid and more efficient. I appreciate the argument that the "outside" may benefit from a chart but it may be difficult to make a meaningful document describing that process...
Often, certain personalities need charts as this provides them with a sense of direction and tangible results. This is a fine approach for those individuals. However, when they are in a leadership position, they often fail to see that it may not be helpful for ar least 1/2 of their staff. (I hate to bring in Dunning-Kruger but ...) When this happens the company will self-select for individuals who are more "charty" types, perpetuating and erroneously validating the process as a universal.
So while I would like a small less detailed chart myself, I respect the process to workflow MWM has taken. It appears to be thoughtful, supportive and respectful if it's members distinctive creative styles and work ethics.
You could see this as the last PAX conference. Each team had a distinctive management approach. I find MWM's to be the one that was most respectful and likely to be the one that will have the integrity to follow through in their promises of quality over drive/pressure for immediate gains.
Anyway, that is my take on charts... :-)

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Tannim222 wrote:
Tannim222 wrote:

It is counter productive for us. While we have a group of dedicated volunteers - we are all just that - volunteers.

It has happened, and is bound to again, where someone is giving a project and that someone drops off the face of the planet. Leaving work incomplete. And since they work remotely, hey may not have uploaded any work to your repo. Leaving it up to someone else to pick up the slack.

Most likely that someone else was also already working on something. And that something has to be paused, or both worked on and / off for a long while. Causing production to slow.

Also, many of us have other jobs, work from home during our family time (for those of us that have families). Which all god to say is that we put in part time work in what is a full time job.

Now anyone who has ever worked in the gaming industry will tell you -

Having s schedule is good, but never expect to keep
It - until you are forced to. When production hinges on multiple people from multiple departments and one small change can lead to a shift in one person’s time line - it has a cascade effect on others’ time lines, effecting the time line of all production....

Missing schedule dates is completely understandable, especially with a volunteer crew. However, refusing to actually tell people what is done and what is not, and what you hope to have done at some time in the future, is very hard to understand for me. Unless there is and embarrassingly little amount actually done, in which case, I guess it makes sense. Therein lies the rub. If you refuse to be transparent, people are left to make assumptions, and some of those assumptions can be quite negative.

Again, if you want to raise funds in the future, you need to let people know where things stand, and show that you've actually made progress all these years. The character creator demo is a great indication of that, as well as some of the other updates you've made, but in terms of the rest of the game, no one knows where things stand, whether you have a full city actually built yet, whether you have one or more powersets finished, etc. Just general broad strokes of what is in the works would be tremendously helpful to building more support and trust, and assuaging the lingering doubts that people have about the project, even if there is no specific timeline attached to it.

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This is just my view and I’m

This is just my view and I’m sure others will disagree.

One of the worst things a person can do is encourage false hope. I don’t mean lying, I mean suggesting something will be one way when they can not control that outcome absolutely. To give a timeline with hard dates is fine. It encourages us to hope that everything will go along a planned course. It also gives us the ability to gage, develop opinions, and criticize every little detail that we perceive as a failure or debilitation of meeting the “timeline” goals.

I have done volunteer work and I’ve been there when literally two of fifteensupposed volunteers managed to show up. It’s not easy to plan for this. And what is more all of those volunteers had good reasons for not making it to the event. There were no excuses or laziness at hand, each had valid reasons. It was simply horrible timing for the event. Had the people the work was being done for not known it was suppose to happen the press for it wouldn’t have been nearly so horrid. But they did know and the group took a great deal of heat both locally and nationally as a result.

In a situation where everything is fully supported and tangible I agree a timeline is not only a good idea but a wise tool to employ. However, when dealing with a situation where the entire support staff is unpaid and voluntary there is no way to know that even one goal is reasonably achievable in a given timeframe.

In so many words, life happens and emergencies are not planned events that can be simply worked around and every single person has those two things occurring at least occasionally. (Even the most reclusive sorts occasionally do get surprised by life events.)

So does one put up a timeline full of hopeful dates and good intentions under the guise that a staff of unpaid volunteers will manage to operate unhindered by “life” and be on time with every part they support or does one play it close to the vest and not show cards without enough certainty that they have a winning hand?

Don’t get me wrong I would love to find out the game is further along than they have shared with us. However since the alternative to knowing is what I’m already doing which is waiting (patiently?) I don’t see the problem with being in the dark as opposed to getting a list of timeline goals that are all missed simply because they threw out a “timeline” they they couldn’t possibly know they could achieve. Thus providing yet another tool for criticisms from “supporters and well wishers.” All of this when they are already working against tremendous odds (highly decentralized unpaid volunteer staff) to achieve their goal.

I really don’t think the MWM group as a whole has any intention of failing or not giving their best but they aren’t organized in a fashion that permits a wise choice to share their timeline. I’m sure they do have one but I wouldn’t expect to see it until they were certain they could commit and hit the dates given. Especially since so many onlookers in the gaming community are so very skeptical and critical of every little detail. Just look at these forums and see how critical the supporters are from time to time... let alone the full community.

Like it or not it is wiser to keep that timeline to themselves and keep up the work they are doing for the time being...

All that said I still find myself Jonesinn for the next big update... but in a healthy way!;-)

"A sad spectacle. If they be inhabited, what a scope for misery and folly. If they be not inhabited, what a waste of space." ~ Thomas Carlyle

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Kid Rad wrote:
Kid Rad wrote:

Unless there is an embarrassingly little amount actually done, in which case, I guess it makes sense. Therein lies the rub. If you refuse to be transparent, people are left to make assumptions, and some of those assumptions can be quite negative.

Normally the developers wouldn't, and maybe shouldn't care, what assumptions people make. But I agree with your sentiment since CoT is a unique game in that it is KS funded and staffed by volunteers. I don't think they can afford to be cavalier with people's assumptions since they are planning a 2nd Chance fundraiser and the success of the game will largely be CoH player base and word of mouth. We don't know where all the KS money went all these years later but I doubt they'll be budgeting a whole lot for marketing when they could use that money on the already under-funded game.
I like to think that I have as much faith in the dev team as possible given the relatively little amount of the actual game we've seen. I can't imagine they would open the 2nd Chance fundraiser without having a working chargen, and videos proving that, along with some actuall gameplay showing completed effects, combat, the actual city and world, etc etc etc. At least, that's what I need to see to donate money. I'm not putting a time-frame on that, just my personal requirements whenever that happens.
Everything LOOKS promising, but we've actually only seen very, very little. And that's ok as long as they aren't stringing us along.

All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.

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rookslide wrote:
rookslide wrote:

...they aren’t organized...

QFT. Lol, jk.

Seriously though, I'm not saying the need a timeline like SoH has, but just a basic list of things they have completed, and another list of things they hope to complete at sometime in the future, would be stupendous, and again, something I hope they already have. Trello is a great medium for this, as can be seen in other games, where they have basic categories of "done", "in progress", and "maybe someday". It's not difficult to make if they don't have it already (which if that's the case, that's alarming), and would be tremendously beneficial, both in terms of keeping track of the project for themselves, and for keeping the community informed. A simple thread, with admin only posts of the latest version of it is all it would take to make this idea a reality.

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Doctor Tyche wrote:
Doctor Tyche wrote:
MeSoSollyWan wrote:

Since this has become the go-to thread to talk about "other Superhero MMORPGs" I'm gonna toss this here:

https://www.shipofheroes.com/schedule-to-release/

Milestone update for Ship of Heroes

While I'm not particularly excited for this game, at all, I am a big fan of their method of communication. They try to be very vocal about devo, their visible timeline is nice, and they always have a lot of visuals with each post.

I like it as well. If we had a full time, paid staff as they had, we could make such charts as well. But we are a work-as-available group of unpaid volunteers, so such a chart is counterproductive.

Still, charts are fun :P

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Kid Rad wrote:
Kid Rad wrote:
rookslide wrote:

...they aren’t organized...

QFT. Lol, jk.

Seriously though, I'm not saying the need a timeline like SoH has, but just a basic list of things they have completed, and another list of things they hope to complete at sometime in the future, would be stupendous, and again, something I hope they already have. Trello is a great medium for this, as can be seen in other games, where they have basic categories of "done", "in progress", and "maybe someday". It's not difficult to make if they don't have it already (which if that's the case, that's alarming), and would be tremendously beneficial, both in terms of keeping track of the project for themselves, and for keeping the community informed. A simple thread, with admin only posts of the latest version of it is all it would take to make this idea a reality.

I think it's more of an issue that due to their uneven development speed and high potential for completely unannounced loss of devs that having a public display of what is "in progress" and such can be more detrimental than beneficial since it can leave a feeling in many of us of "why isn't that done by now" when features aren't done in a time frame that we would think is the proper one.

My experience purely on the consumer side of this leans towards that putting up these kinds of "lists" actually necessitates more active communication from the devs to makes sure that what we read on those lists have all relevant information. There's also the fact that not everything they track internally would be a good idea to put on such a public list.

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A list of what’s done, what’s

A list of what’s done, what’s in progress, what won’t be done until post-release, and what is probably never being added or might never be added, that’d be pretty neat, even if there are zero dates added.

If they already have that info at hand for their internal processes and can reproduce that here, I think I’d like that. But if that’s something they don’t have already, because they are working as independent groups focused on different modules to be integrated later, and compiling that info requires taking resources away from development then I’d rather they focus on getting Chargen and the game itself done.

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Atama wrote:
Atama wrote:

A list of what’s done, what’s in progress, what won’t be done until post-release, and what is probably never being added or might never be added, that’d be pretty neat, even if there are zero dates added.

If they already have that info at hand for their internal processes and can reproduce that here, I think I’d like that. But if that’s something they don’t have already, because they are working as independent groups focused on different modules to be integrated later, and compiling that info requires taking resources away from development then I’d rather they focus on getting Chargen and the game itself done.

Ohh I'm sure they have such I just think they are much more fine grained than what would be "suitable" for us, possibly going down to individual items/powers rather than "groupings".

I'm sure there are a few "devs" (well at least one) that doesn't do any actual work on the game itself but rather all the things around it, like coordinating and/or prioritizing all the different work being done.

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blacke4dawn wrote:
blacke4dawn wrote:
Atama wrote:

A list of what’s done, what’s in progress, what won’t be done until post-release, and what is probably never being added or might never be added, that’d be pretty neat, even if there are zero dates added.

If they already have that info at hand for their internal processes and can reproduce that here, I think I’d like that. But if that’s something they don’t have already, because they are working as independent groups focused on different modules to be integrated later, and compiling that info requires taking resources away from development then I’d rather they focus on getting Chargen and the game itself done.

Ohh I'm sure they have such I just think they are much more fine grained than what would be "suitable" for us, possibly going down to individual items/powers rather than "groupings".

I'm sure there are a few "devs" (well at least one) that doesn't do any actual work on the game itself but rather all the things around it, like coordinating and/or prioritizing all the different work being done.

This comes back to something I've said before: Every player thinks they want to see how the sausage is made as far as all the details related to how this game is being designed and scheduled. But in reality the more "details" we learn at any given moment about those things the more likely those things are going to change and/or be modified six months or a year from now when (hopefully) public beta testing is underway.

Seeing big fancy charts is fine and dandy. Being reasonably sure the data on those charts is not going to significantly change over time is something else. Have patience my friends. ;)

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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Joined: 09/13/2015 - 20:08
Speaking of goals, still

Speaking of goals, still waiting for that VO Steam release that was slated for a year or two ago. Apparently, VO was due on Steam. Players would also be able to customize their transformations for that said power-set, and pets for the commander power-set. They discussed a power-set were players could transform to something else, and customize it. Sounds too good to be true!!! (Sarcasm).

Apparently they released in 2017, guess I missed it.
https://www.f2p.com/anticipated-free-play-mmo-games-2017/

Depends on your goals, because they could definitely lead players in the wrong direction. May be better to say nothing at all. VO has nothing that resembles a transformation power in their current plans or alpha. They actually stopped discussing customization of pets and transformations altogether. If they only would have said nothing?

As a child, I thought my name was handsome, cause that is what everyone called me.

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