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Updated Classification and Specification Chart

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Consultant
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Could someone take a moment

Could someone take a moment and flesh out Off/Mit from the chart, which I take to mean offensive mitigation.

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It's apparently what Blasters

It's apparently what Blasters had for secondary powersets in City of Heroes. A grab bag of punches, self-buffs, enemy debuffs, status effects like knockdown or slow, maybe a short duration pet or trap.

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One example of a Blaster

One example of a Blaster secondary from CoH: Mental Manipulation

Subdual Single-target Immobilize
Mind_Probe Melee single-target damage/slow
Telekinetic Thrust Melee single-target knockback
Psychic Scream PBAoE cone damage
Concentration Buff damage and to-hit
Drain Psyche PBAoE debuff regen/recovery; self buff regen/recovery
World of Confusion Minor PBAoE Confuse toggle
Scare Single-target fear
Psychic Shockwave PBAoE high damage; stun

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Alright so I know that your

Alright so I know that your making a control/defense type powerset in the form of "Defensive manipulation" but I'm wondering if it's possible for a ranged/defense powerset in the far off future? Also I've noticed that quite a few people have been asking for a support secondary for the stalwart and while I do agree that would be a bad idea, have you considered making a support/melee poweset for the stalwart?

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The is no Control Defense on

The is no Control/Defense on that chart. Ranged/Defense is already there. And Stalwart is the class name for Defense primary so how will a stalwart be able to get support for a primary.

If your talking about having a secondary set with those mixtures then thats a whole different conversation and all be labeled as variations of "manipulation"

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notears
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AlienMafia wrote:
AlienMafia wrote:

The is no Control/Defense on that chart. Ranged/Defense is already there. And Stalwart is the class name for Defense primary so how will a stalwart be able to get support for a primary.
If your talking about having a secondary set with those mixtures then thats a whole different conversation and all be labeled as variations of "manipulation"

Okay I have a feeling that you didn't really read my post. First I said POWERSET not archetype. So if you read my post you would understand that a secondary powerset for the enforcer is what I was suggesting. Second the manipulation secondary for blasters was mostly a mix of CONTROL and melee powers. An earlier post by someone trying to confirm that this was going to be the case for manipulation being a "mix of control and melee with some self support" and zombieman did confirm that it was close to what they had in mind for "Offensive Manipulation" which is going to be the secondary for rangers and stalwarts and that they wanted to make "Defensive Manipulation" for the enforcer which would be centered around replacing the melee powers of that secondary with self mitigation powers so that the enforcer can defend himself in melee combat. So while what you said about the ranged/defense POWERSET being another version of defensive manipulation would be nice, it was never implied that it was the case at all. Thirdly I didn't suggest a pure support secondary for the stalwart, I was suggesting a new type of secondary powerset that combined melee powers with support powers so that rather than being an archetype with no offensive powers it would have melee powers as well as support powers.

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I've always found that, once

I've always found that, once the barrier between hero and villain was broken (or rather, permeated), having both defender and corrupter was inefficient. They're mirrors of one another. Corrupters are ranged/support; defenders are support/ranged. Once you hit level 38 (or 40 I guess) there's no noticeable difference. So, since this game is designed, I gather, from launch for classes not to be alignment-specific, why have the mirrored classes at all?

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desviper wrote:
desviper wrote:

I've always found that, once the barrier between hero and villain was broken (or rather, permeated), having both defender and corrupter was inefficient. They're mirrors of one another. Corrupters are ranged/support; defenders are support/ranged. Once you hit level 38 (or 40 I guess) there's no noticeable difference. So, since this game is designed, I gather, from launch for classes not to be alignment-specific, why have the mirrored classes at all?

The answer for that will probably be the same as the answer for CoH: Even though a high level Corruptor could potentially have access to the same powers as a high level Defender the fact that different powers unlock at different level thresholds depending on whether they're in primary or secondary sets makes them fairly different build wise. For example a Corruptor could have Power Push (Energy Blast Primary) at level 18 but a Defender would have to wait until level 28 to get it (Energy Blast Secondary). That difference affected how hard or easy it was to slot those powers with Enhancement slots over the course of leveling those characters up towards level 50.

Also there's the point that we still don't really know how the powersets are going to be structured/balanced in CoT in the first place. For all we know characters who have so-called "mirrored" powersets in CoT will actually have the potential to be much more different from each other than your CoH Corruptor/Defender example.

Regardless there's really not a "problem" with mirrored powersets anyway. I see it as a way to prioritize what you want your character to be good at doing and just because you could force one powerset pair to be a near replica of another mirrored pair by the time the two characters are level 50 doesn't really invalidate either one.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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Also don't forget Defenders

Also don't forget Defenders did less Damage because their Energy Blast was their Secondary versus Corruptors Energy Blast being their Primary.
On the other hand the Defenders Primary (Buff/Debuff) was stronger than the Corruptors Secondary (Buff/Debuff).

So the question about whether to be a Defender or Corruptor came down to did I want to Support and then Attack, or Attack and then Support.

Its like saying Tanks and Scrappers were the same because that had mirrored Pri/Sec.
And lets not get into the discussion about IO'd characters ok :)

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Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:

desviper wrote:
I've always found that, once the barrier between hero and villain was broken (or rather, permeated), having both defender and corrupter was inefficient. They're mirrors of one another. Corrupters are ranged/support; defenders are support/ranged. Once you hit level 38 (or 40 I guess) there's no noticeable difference. So, since this game is designed, I gather, from launch for classes not to be alignment-specific, why have the mirrored classes at all?

The answer for that will probably be the same as the answer for CoH: Even though a high level Corruptor could potentially have access to the same powers as a high level Defender the fact that different powers unlock at different level thresholds depending on whether they're in primary or secondary sets makes them fairly different build wise. For example a Corruptor could have Power Push (Energy Blast Primary) at level 18 but a Defender would have to wait until level 28 to get it (Energy Blast Secondary). That difference affected how hard or easy it was to slot those powers with Enhancement slots over the course of leveling those characters up towards level 50.
Also there's the point that we still don't really know how the powersets are going to be structured/balanced in CoT in the first place. For all we know characters who have so-called "mirrored" powersets in CoT will actually have the potential to be much more different from each other than your CoH Corruptor/Defender example.
Regardless there's really not a "problem" with mirrored powersets anyway. I see it as a way to prioritize what you want your character to be good at doing and just because you could force one powerset pair to be a near replica of another mirrored pair by the time the two characters are level 50 doesn't really invalidate either one.

I suppose I am assuming the same mirror here; if the CoT classes would be further differentiated as cybermitheral noted with Damage and Buff modifiers
However, i'd always found a great focus on end-game content in CoH (again, assuming similarity with CoT, which i recognize mightn't be fair), and at level 50 the level and slot differences between the two are long gone, even by 45. I'd just found it inefficient to have both.
I also have found that this game's culture seems to be less class-oriented. The powers one could have aren't as limited to classes as in CoH. I'm under the presumption that the powersets would look very similar in a ranged/support and a support/ranged toon.

But, if the devs, and I hope they do, have more differentiation in such classes, my point is null.

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Is there any place that

Is there any place that defines what some of these terms mean? Granted i have played A LOT of mmo's so understand most, but some of them leave me scratching my head, assault for instance, its a mix of offensive melee and ranged powers? pretty cool. Another one is Manipulation, i see the blaster has it as a secondary, sooo self buffs? while support would be heals and team buffs? leaving the bodyguard to be a melee dps healer / buffer? thats neat as well.

Another question, coming from cox i LOVED the brute. I remember for the longest time playing my main as a tanker and wishing they would let villain classes be used blueside so he could reroll as one, and when they did i was on cloud 9! It was just so much more versatile i felt for soloing, and still none to shabby when pressed into the main tank role, talking from my experience only now. But i see the Gladiator not only encompasses the brute, but the scrapper and stalker as well! I am curious how that works? They all played completely differently to me, and leads me thinking that the gladiator may not be as durable as the brute was? unless the plan is even more sub specs you will be able to build toward?

Sorry this got a tad long winded

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I believe that there are

I believe that there are going to be two versions of manipulation, defensive manipulation and offensive manipulation. Offensive Manipulation would be a mix between a melee set and a control set with some self buff powers and would be a secondary powerset for rangers, stalwarts and guardians. Defensive manipulation would be a mix of defense powers and control powers with some self buff powers and is a secondary for the enforcer.

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@Zanje

@Zanje
re: The Gladiator being Brute/Scrapper/Stalker
(Note this is as far as I am currently aware and as the game is still so young anything may change)

Yes the GLAD will be the Melee/Def classification which is the same as the Brute/Scrapper/Stalker were in CoX.
However each character will be able to chose a "Mastery" or playstyle option to help define the roll you want to play.

Example GLAD Masteries (these are from ME not any CoT post and only as examples to help explain my post):
Rage: over time as you attack and are attacked you increase a Rage meter which increases the damage of all your attacks
Critical: you have a higher chance than most to perform Critical Hits which do Double Damage
Flank Attack: when attacking someone who is not attacking you directly you have a chance to perform a Flank Attack which does x1.5 damage

So as you can see when you select your GLAD and then Axe/Inv as your Pri/Sec powers HOW you play that GLAD can still be defined by your Mastery (Brute/Scrapper/Stalker).

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@notears and @cybermitheral

@notears and @cybermitheral

Ah thanks a bunch for the clarifications, cleared some confusion up!

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For clearing up City of

For clearing up City of Heroes terms, it's hard to beat http://paragonwiki.com/

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LeadWanderer wrote:
LeadWanderer wrote:

Where's the Blapper? Can we make some specification Blapper Oriented? I duno how you could encorperate it, but somehow I think there could be a defense, or regen, or damage boost from surviving, or knocking out enemies as you do exactly what the glass canon or boxing glove, is not suposed to do... >.> Or in this case, working as intended?

So much this. I had gotten so burnt out on my blaster until this surfaced on the forums. It was like I had a whole new toon. It was such a high risk vs. reward gameplay, but man was it fun. I remember crushing some freakshow with my Nrg/Nrg blapper....until total focus missed. *sigh* more debt to work off. Worth.

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I don't know about an all new

I don't know about an all new secondary for a blaster based around being a blapper, I could make a Blapper quite easily with manipulation. A mastery based around blapping on the other hand would be interesting to see. Something around the lines of "Whenever you attack a target with a melee power you gain small boost to regeneration, defense and ranged damage. Also whenever you attack a target with a ranged power you gain a bonus to melee damage."

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http://neverwinter.gamepedia

http://neverwinter.gamepedia.com/Hunter_Ranger

Example of a class that plays with melee and ranged and each benefits the other and have been LOVING it.

Manipulation is a placement word and will vary greatly.

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Where are you getting this

Where are you getting this "manipulation will vary greatly" from? Zombie man himself confirmed on page one of this very thread that offensive manipulation would be a mix of melee powers and control powers with some self buffs and that defensive manipulation would be a modified version offensive manipulation so that the striker can defend himself properly. Nowhere in there does it say that manipulation will be a wild card or that it can be anything. So again while it would be nice it was never confirmed to be the plan.

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Whats confirmed yes only 2.

Whats confirmed is 2 "types" or manipulations. There could be plans for other variations within the types like control/defense, melee/support, etc. Different classes will probably have different variations especially with as many different classes with manipulation. Their original goal was to not simply port manipulation to other classes but have many different variations of manipulation and then have variations of powers within the sets. I'm not a dev so it is not confirmed but going off of things ive read the past year and 4 months. I'm using my imagination going above what confirmed since he is a dev and probably not allowed to talk about anything more or just not confirming because it doesn't exist yet or never which is your premise.

Manipulation- off/mit (example of # of powers each 6/4, 7/3, or even triple with self buffs like u said)
Melee/defense
Ranged/defense
Control/defense
Melee/support(debuff and/or buff). <-- variations of manipulation
Ranged/support(debuff and/or buff)
Control/support(debuff and/or buff)
Pets and could be added but probably not from my thoughts.
/control could be added since it could be a mitegation

Then they could flip it and be mit/off where the number of powers each switch.

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Please oh please oh please oh

Please oh please oh please oh please..... include the Ranger-Hunter (Blaster) in the launch instead of the Ranger-Partisan (Corruptor)!! You already have ranged-support covered with the Guardian-Sentinel (Defender)... 1) you don't need a second ranged-support class at launch that is sub-par to full blaster damage and sub-par to full defender defense/buff/debuff; and 2) I love my blasters!!!!

Down the road, bring in the Partisan, sure! I did enjoy playing a corruptor type.... but give me my blasters!!! Pretty please? :)

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AlienMafia wrote:
AlienMafia wrote:

Whats confirmed is 2 "types" or manipulations. There could be plans for other variations within the types like control/defense, melee/support, etc. Different classes will probably have different variations especially with as many different classes with manipulation. Their original goal was to not simply port manipulation to other classes but have many different variations of manipulation and then have variations of powers within the sets. I'm not a dev so it is not confirmed but going off of things ive read the past year and 4 months. I'm using my imagination going above what confirmed since he is a dev and probably not allowed to talk about anything more or just not confirming because it doesn't exist yet or never which is your premise.
Manipulation- off/mit (example of # of powers each 6/4, 7/3, or even triple with self buffs like u said)
Melee/defense
Ranged/defense
Control/defense
Melee/support(debuff and/or buff). <-- variations of manipulation
Ranged/support(debuff and/or buff)
Control/support(debuff and/or buff)
Pets and could be added but probably not from my thoughts.
/control could be added since it could be a mitegation
Then they could flip it and be mit/off where the number of powers each switch.

You know what? Your right, neither of us know what's going on with but your's is more plausible. I surrender you win :)

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Techno-Bunny wrote:
Techno-Bunny wrote:

Please oh please oh please oh please..... include the Ranger-Hunter (Blaster) in the launch instead of the Ranger-Partisan (Corruptor)!! You already have ranged-support covered with the Guardian-Sentinel (Defender)... 1) you don't need a second ranged-support class at launch that is sub-par to full blaster damage and sub-par to full defender defense/buff/debuff; and 2) I love my blasters!!!!
Down the road, bring in the Partisan, sure! I did enjoy playing a corruptor type.... but give me my blasters!!! Pretty please? :)

Look at the extra development. While I would prefer blasters myself, it uses a different secondary category than any other AT.

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As much as I desperately want

As much as I desperately want CoT's version of a blaster, if what you're saying is that it will take time to do it right, I can be patient. Not so patient that I will wait till there are blasters before playing! But I haven't quite wrapped my head around the idea that my first character won't be my main...

Spurn all ye kindle.

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Cinnder wrote:
Cinnder wrote:

As much as I desperately want CoT's version of a blaster, if what you're saying is that it will take time to do it right, I can be patient. Not so patient that I will wait till there are blasters before playing! But I haven't quite wrapped my head around the idea that my first character won't be my main...

I fully intend to recreate several of my CoH "mains" in CoT.

One of them was a Fire Controller so in CoT that ought to directly translate into a Commander-Director. But to be completely honest the core concept behind that character (which actually predated CoH) was probably always closer to being "Control/Ranged" than "Control/Support". So in that case the Commander-Executor may prove to be a better fit for this character in CoT than the Fire Controller ever was in CoH.

I mention this only to offer the idea that even if CoT forces people to change/modify their original CoH concepts it might not be all bad. I myself have other Blaster characters to deal with and I haven't decided yet if I want to wait until CoT allows for "real" Blasters or modify them the same way I'm thinking about for the Fire Controller. Just something to consider...

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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There also a question on how

There also a question on how the new powers will compare. I had a hard time finding the right power combo for my main Rotten Luck street justice/willpower brute and I'm sure I would have to try different variations within the CoT system to find the one that really fits. So even though he's a brute in CoH don't mean I won't find that playing him more of a scrapper or even a tank to be better.

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Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:

I mention this only to offer the idea that even if CoT forces people to change/modify their original CoH concepts it might not be all bad. I myself have other Blaster characters to deal with and I haven't decided yet if I want to wait until CoT allows for "real" Blasters or modify them the same way I'm thinking about for the Fire Controller. Just something to consider...

My main was a blaster and already I think the gunner will fit him better than hunter. Of course, I will have to wait till gunner comes out to roll him.

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Gunnar's Coming Out Party.

Gunnar's Coming Out Party.

I'll add that to my list of potential band names.

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LOL.

LOL.

Reminds me of a an anti-insect product I saw once that sounded like a concert promotion:

Mosquito Repellent Band
with Tourmaline Ion Power

Spurn all ye kindle.

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I'm pretty sure control and

I'm pretty sure control and manipulation are the same thing I might be wrong though.

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Pbuckley wrote:
Pbuckley wrote:

I'm pretty sure control and manipulation are the same thing I might be wrong though.

They might have similarities, but the way I understood it they were using the old CoX terms for reference, which means Manipulation could mean primarily melee damage, as in Energy Manipulation (http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Energy_Manipulation). That's what my main had, so it looks like it will be a while before I can make a burny/smashy character.

Spurn all ye kindle.

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Pbuckley wrote:
Pbuckley wrote:

I'm pretty sure control and manipulation are the same thing I might be wrong though.

Not in this context. I think someone mentioned this, but i'm unsure

Control refers almost exclusively to mez, Immobilize, Hold, Sleep, Confuse, etc., which were primaries for the CoH Controller and Dominator, and their CoT counterparts, Director and Brigadier (love that name, though idk if it fits).

Manipulation refers to a mix of melee and mez attacks, as was the Blaster's secondary (not so much devices), and will be for the Hunter.

Paragonwiki.com is the bible for this stuff from CoH.

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Manipulation is what we call

Manipulation is what we call the "Swiss Army Powerset" with options ranging from the melee-heavy sets found for Blasters to defense-heavy sets like a Stalker's Ninjitsu, depending on what it is paired up with.

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Doctor Tyche wrote:
Doctor Tyche wrote:

Manipulation is what we call the "Swiss Army Powerset" with options ranging from the melee-heavy sets found for Blasters to defense-heavy sets like a Stalker's Ninjitsu, depending on what it is paired up with.

GREAT! That's way more efficient than using a melee mez mix.

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I kind-of realized I'd made

I kind-of realized I'd made a whoopsie when I saw zombie man was the OP.

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I'm kinda confused are you

I'm kinda confused are you planning all 15 masteries at launch or just 5?

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kamikaze wrote:
kamikaze wrote:

I'm kinda confused are you planning all 15 masteries at launch or just 5?

We are planning 5 of the 6 classifications at launch. Each classification at launch will have one Specialization, and we will be working to add more as time goes on.

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No master :/

No master :/

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Doctor Tyche wrote:
Doctor Tyche wrote:

Techno-Bunny wrote:
Please oh please oh please oh please..... include the Ranger-Hunter (Blaster) in the launch instead of the Ranger-Partisan (Corruptor)!! You already have ranged-support covered with the Guardian-Sentinel (Defender)... 1) you don't need a second ranged-support class at launch that is sub-par to full blaster damage and sub-par to full defender defense/buff/debuff; and 2) I love my blasters!!!!
Down the road, bring in the Partisan, sure! I did enjoy playing a corruptor type.... but give me my blasters!!! Pretty please? :)

Look at the extra development. While I would prefer blasters myself, it uses a different secondary category than any other AT.

I completely and wholly understand the development reasoning behind this decision.

That being said, I cannot state in words strong enough how INTENSELY I HATE THIS DECISION. My disappointment in it cannot be measured. And were the feelings I have for it measurable using dark matter, the subsequent energy released would be enough to swallow the planet in a black hole.

Yes, I realize that the two previous sentences contradict each other. My disappointment is so profound that it, in fact, defies logic.

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LockOn wrote:
LockOn wrote:

Doctor Tyche wrote:
Techno-Bunny wrote:
Please oh please oh please oh please..... include the Ranger-Hunter (Blaster) in the launch instead of the Ranger-Partisan (Corruptor)!! You already have ranged-support covered with the Guardian-Sentinel (Defender)... 1) you don't need a second ranged-support class at launch that is sub-par to full blaster damage and sub-par to full defender defense/buff/debuff; and 2) I love my blasters!!!!
Down the road, bring in the Partisan, sure! I did enjoy playing a corruptor type.... but give me my blasters!!! Pretty please? :)

Look at the extra development. While I would prefer blasters myself, it uses a different secondary category than any other AT.

I completely and wholly understand the development reasoning behind this decision.
That being said, I cannot state in words strong enough how INTENSELY I HATE THIS DECISION. My disappointment in it cannot be measured. And were the feelings I have for it measurable using dark matter, the subsequent energy released would be enough to swallow the planet in a black hole.
Yes, I realize that the two previous sentences contradict each other. My disappointment is so profound that it, in fact, defies logic.

And that disappointment is the primary reason why we're making sure that we can respec secondary choices.

Technical Director

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Doctor Tyche wrote:
Doctor Tyche wrote:

And that disappointment is the primary reason why we're making sure that we can respec secondary choices.

For which Goldenrod thanks you ^_^

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Foradain wrote:
Foradain wrote:

Doctor Tyche wrote:
And that disappointment is the primary reason why we're making sure that we can respec secondary choices.

For which Goldenrod thanks you ^_^

For which everyone thanks you.

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As of tonight's update, the

As of tonight's update, the Control/Support Spec will be named "Tactician", which I find better than "Director"; Ranged/Support will be "Striker" which i'm divided about, it doesn't imply ranged or support, and doesn't sound as cool as Partisan; Support/Ranged will be "Guardian".

This leaves Melee/Manipulation blank, since "Striker" has been moved, and the Class for Support is also now blank, since "guardian" has been moved, which I'm glad about.

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Ah I misread the titanic

Ah I misread the titanic glossary then. I thought they renamed the Classification from Commander to Tactician. Not sure why I wasn't corrected. After rereading it, I can't believe I missed that. I wish it was more clear though stating, "These are the specifications expected for launch so far."

I have to agree with you that Partisan > Striker. Striker is definitely a melee name imo. However, Partisan isn't as cool as Corruptor.

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5 OClock Shadow wrote:
5 OClock Shadow wrote:

However, Partisan isn't as cool as Corruptor.

What is?

It is possible some kind of an IP issue cropped up since the chart was first posted and Partisan needed to changed. We were told the names were subject to change after all. Striker may not be the best fit for ranged damage/support, but it at least it lets you know they are a damage-oriented class, and it doesn't sound inherently heroic or villainous.

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Yeah, I guess it was an

Yeah, I guess it was an obvious statement. And true--I'm sure there's a reason they switched Partisan out. We're definitely a long ways from final announcement, and things will shift--I'm aware of that. Just contributing my thoughts.

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All thoughts are welcome...

All thoughts are welcome... AS LONG AS THEY ARE INLINE WITH OUR MWM OVERLORDS!!!!!
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Oh, I know. I'm not supper

Oh, I know. I'm not supper happy with Striker either. I was wracking my brains earlier trying to think up another name for ranged/support that didn't sound like a 10 year old made it up. I had no luck on that front.

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Will there be a

Will there be a classification which will let me approximate what I had as a Peacebringer -- that is, will I be able to give quality healing while also being self-sufficient enough to defend myself and take a few lumps while trying to get to the person I'm healing? Kind of like a Combat Medic, I guess.

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Amerikatt wrote:
Amerikatt wrote:

Will there be a classification which will let me approximate what I had as a Peacebringer -- that is, will I be able to give quality healing while also being self-sufficient enough to defend myself and take a few lumps while trying to get to the person I'm healing? Kind of like a Combat Medic, I guess.

Well, we will have to see exactly how it works out, but through tertiary powers you could probably get a build like that. Whether you take the healing as a tertiary to combat class, or a defense set as a tertiary to a support class.

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Yes, an issue with Kheldians

Yes, an issue with Kheldians is that they essentially had Two Primary powersets, Melee and Ranged. Additionally, their shape-changes unlocked reinforced versions of those Ranged and Melee powers, such that a skilled form-juggler could almost ignore cool-downs, by switching around. Finding Enhancement Slots for all of those powers was a chore and an exercise in extreme conservation.

A CoT version of the Kheldian powersets might be possible with Assault as a Primary, but that depends on how many powers are available in a set. Three or four attacks would be necessary to maintain a rotation at CoH recharge/cool-down levels, plus an AoE of two. And this would need to be Doubled, if there is separation between Melee and Ranged. That's one thing that I liked about DCUO, Ranged attacks could be used just as effectively at 'contact' range and the only Difference between Ranged and Melee attacks seemed to be Animation.

It would be Interesting, if the differences between melee vs ranged could be reduced to abstraction and a Ranged power, activated on a melee-range target, would automagically translate to a melee-animation with the same effect. Unfortunately, that might dilute the distinction between Scrapper and Blaster. Going the other direction, Melee to Ranged could result in throwing swords or rocks, or shoes, which just doesn't work as well.

If this were done, it would have to be very narrowly applied to the 'energy attack' powers - which makes perfect sense for our Kheldian-equivalent AT, but might be a stretch for other ATs.

Hmm, one could create a 'Gun and Sword' Assault set and then have this range-unification coding swap animations and effects based on target proximity?

Not sure.

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No reason you cant use a

No reason you cant use a Ranged attack as a Melee attack (assuming there are no Interrupts for Ranged attacks (except Snipes I guess).

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cybermitheral wrote:
cybermitheral wrote:

No reason you cant use a Ranged attack as a Melee attack (assuming there are no Interrupts for Ranged attacks (except Snipes I guess).

Point-blank range is the best kind of range! All hail the Gunner spec!

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And the Bastion Spec (Prot

And the Bastion Spec (Prot/Assault) - Im really looking forward to both of these... drooooool

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Consultant wrote:
Consultant wrote:

Could someone take a moment and flesh out Off/Mit from the chart, which I take to mean offensive mitigation.

Pengy wrote:

It's apparently what Blasters had for secondary powersets in City of Heroes. A grab bag of punches, self-buffs, enemy debuffs, status effects like knockdown or slow, maybe a short duration pet or trap.

Thanks for asking and answering that, it had been bugging me for a while now.

The other i had issues with was "Assault" which is apparently a mixed bag of melee and ranged.

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ZombieMan hasn't been on in 5

ZombieMan hasn't been on in 5 months, maybe we should have someone take over the responsibility of managing a Class/Spec chart.

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Managing? I don't think the

Managing? I don't think the thing is that dynamic.

If you want to speculate, try this thread: http://cityoftitans.com/forum/ultimate-classification-and-specification-chart

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Zombie man needs a Rez or an

Zombie man needs a Rez or an awaken

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Fireheart wrote:
Fireheart wrote:

Managing? I don't think the thing is that dynamic.
If you want to speculate, try this thread: http://cityoftitans.com/forum/ultimate-classification-and-specification-chart
Be Well!
Fireheart

I don't mean to speculate, but to keep track of the official Class/Spec system so far. That thread does its job well,.

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desviper wrote:
desviper wrote:

Fireheart wrote:
Managing? I don't think the thing is that dynamic.
If you want to speculate, try this thread: http://cityoftitans.com/forum/ultimate-classification-and-specification-chart
Be Well!
Fireheart

I don't mean to speculate, but to keep track of the official Class/Spec system so far. That thread does its job well,.

But I want that chart and this chart to be one in the same... :(

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Given that Tanks and

Given that Tanks and Controllers were my favorite ATs, I definitely want to try your 'Governor', but I guess I'll have to wait for the game to come out, before I start bugging the Devs.

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What we need is only 8 good

What we need is only 8 good names. Imagine the future CoT if all 56 combinations are possible.
We would need 56 different archetype names. If were trying to get avoid repletion of CoX archetype names.
Wich may not be so copyright infringing as number of superhero games use, including role-playing, pen and paper and mmorpg and muds, use blaster, controller, dominator and scrapper.

But if we are going that route here is based on the power sets. It may be easier to list by primary and secondary.
That way we do not need to memorize a bunch of funky names that just aren't natural.

Melee Enforcer
Ranged Striker
Assault Hunter
Manipulation Manipulator
Support Guardian
Control Director
Defense Stalwart
Pets Commander

It easier knowing someone Enforcer/Stalwart, Striker/Guardian or Director/Commander
Then if someone is Bodyguard, Brigadier, Grenadier, Greasier, Toastmaster or Powder-toast. From dozens of classifications.

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I hope zombie man is ok

I hope zombie man is ok haven't seen him on for long time

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Godling wrote:
Godling wrote:

What we need is only 8 good names. Imagine the future CoT if all 56 combinations are possible.
We would need 56 different archetype names. If were trying to get avoid repletion of CoX archetype names.
Wich may not be so copyright infringing as number of superhero games use, including role-playing, pen and paper and mmorpg and muds, use blaster, controller, dominator and scrapper.
But if we are going that route here is based on the power sets. It may be easier to list by primary and secondary.
That way we do not need to memorize a bunch of funky names that just aren't natural.
Melee Enforcer
Ranged Striker
Assault Hunter
Manipulation Manipulator
Support Guardian
Control Director
Defense Stalwart
Pets Commander
It easier knowing someone Enforcer/Stalwart, Striker/Guardian or Director/Commander
Then if someone is Bodyguard, Brigadier, Grenadier, Greasier, Toastmaster or Powder-toast. From dozens of classifications.

The specifications would still be in use either way since they specifically connote with one combo. The only thing that adds is the classification. Now you COULD try saying "Melee/Range" or "Pets/Assault." That would work.

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For ease of communication I

For ease of communication I wouldn't be surprised if people took to using only the classification. That information imparts what the character does, while the specification is more of a matter of how they do it. If the CoT community turns out to be anything like the folks who hung out in CoH, most people won't much care what someone does, much less how they do it.

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Darth Fez wrote:
Darth Fez wrote:

If the CoT community turns out to be anything like the folks who hung out in CoH, most people won't much care what someone does, much less how they do it.

At least, up until they team up with them. Then their roles become important!

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AAlbusUUmbra wrote:
AAlbusUUmbra wrote:

Darth Fez wrote:
If the CoT community turns out to be anything like the folks who hung out in CoH, most people won't much care what someone does, much less how they do it.

At least, up until they team up with them. Then their roles become important!

For planning tactics, if nothing else.

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AAlbusUUmbra wrote:
AAlbusUUmbra wrote:

Darth Fez wrote:
If the CoT community turns out to be anything like the folks who hung out in CoH, most people won't much care what someone does, much less how they do it.

At least, up until they team up with them. Then their roles become important!

Roles are made to be broken.

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Luminara wrote:
Luminara wrote:

AAlbusUUmbra wrote:
Darth Fez wrote:
If the CoT community turns out to be anything like the folks who hung out in CoH, most people won't much care what someone does, much less how they do it.

At least, up until they team up with them. Then their roles become important!

Roles are made to be broken.

Well then, have fun solo'ing bosses as a blapper using only melee moves like a tank would!

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AAlbusUUmbra wrote:
AAlbusUUmbra wrote:

Well then, have fun solo'ing bosses as a blapper using only melee moves like a tank would!

Accomplished daily by thousands of players when Co* was still alive. And since this game is being developed and designed by long-time, devoted Co* players who loved that game for reasons such as the immense flexibility of ATs and builds in teams and no requirements for specific roles to be filled, expect it to not only be possible, but quite enjoyable.

But you probably won't notice it happening, because you'll be sitting idle, spamming chat channels with begging pleas for "healers" to come make the game playable for you. And like the rest of the role-bound chattel, you'll be gone in short order, off to find a game more suitable for your need to be categorized and firmly cemented into a "role".

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I'm tempted to bring out the

I'm tempted to bring out the Corrupter tank again and show how insane you could get with some builds.

The biggest accomplishment for me is still Soloing Lord Arachnos's SF... suck it heroes.

Revenge is motivation enough. At least it's honest...

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Luminara wrote:
Luminara wrote:

But you probably won't notice it happening, because you'll be sitting idle, spamming chat channels with begging pleas for "healers" to come make the game playable for you. And like the rest of the role-bound chattel, you'll be gone in short order, off to find a game more suitable for your need to be categorized and firmly cemented into a "role".

I resent that like a blasphemy, Luminara. I've solo'd archvillains with a Controller before and only cried for 20 minutes.

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AAlbusUUmbra wrote:
AAlbusUUmbra wrote:

Luminara wrote:
AAlbusUUmbra wrote:
Darth Fez wrote:
If the CoT community turns out to be anything like the folks who hung out in CoH, most people won't much care what someone does, much less how they do it.

At least, up until they team up with them. Then their roles become important!

Roles are made to be broken.

Well then, have fun solo'ing bosses as a blapper using only melee moves like a tank would!

There is a big difference between refusing to use an entire powerset (especially your primary) and not playing a specific role to the letter.

That seems like you made an arbitrary rule up an overly specific situation to make your point.

Longtime City of Heroes player, longtime writer. :)

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AmbiDreamer wrote:
AmbiDreamer wrote:

AAlbusUUmbra wrote:
Luminara wrote:
AAlbusUUmbra wrote:
Darth Fez wrote:
If the CoT community turns out to be anything like the folks who hung out in CoH, most people won't much care what someone does, much less how they do it.

At least, up until they team up with them. Then their roles become important!

Roles are made to be broken.

Well then, have fun solo'ing bosses as a blapper using only melee moves like a tank would!

There is a big difference between refusing to use an entire powerset (especially your primary) and not playing a specific role to the letter.
That seems like you made an arbitrary rule up an overly specific situation to make your point.

The former half of your reply is sensible. My point was playing an entirely different role after creating a character designed for a completely different role. In this case, using a ranged DPS character for tanking.

However, I can easily accept using unconventional roles to accomplish peculiar tasks, like a tanker using Ice Melee to control and lock down enemies. They may not be as effective, but if it still gives an edge then by all means try it! If CoT's mechanics allow for even more unconventional roles than that to be feasible, then I'm game- I only condemn stupid and inviable builds.

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Ineffective power set

Ineffective power set combinations?

No such mongoose.

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Darth Fez wrote:
Darth Fez wrote:

Ineffective power set combinations?
No such mongoose.

LOL, this reminds me of this one time when everyone on CoX was debating over which powerset combo was the most ineffective. About half the room immediately cried "Psy/Psy Dominator."

Guess why.

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no pets?

no pets?

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notears wrote:
notears wrote:

no pets?

Nope. Too complex; will be added after release.

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AAlbusUUmbra wrote:
AAlbusUUmbra wrote:

notears wrote:
no pets?

Nope. Too complex; will be added after release.

Actually that was a guess as to why people chose psi/psi dominator as the worst powerset combination. Because neither power set had a pet and I remember a lot of people saying that that's why they didn't like mind control back in the day.

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I imagine the first power

I imagine the first power sets available as combos will likely make sense, at least the majority of them will. More exotic sets will come in time. The whole point is customization and having fun.

I don't like the idea of limiting what is available to keep people from choosing things that aren't necessarily logically complimentary. This is where learning how to survive and tactics comes in when you chose to hinder your own character with your powerset combo selection.

Completing every bit of available gameplay was not the goal for everyone that played CoX. Some people just enjoyed role playing a character they created. I don't think it hurts to have multiple power sets available that don't compliment each other logically. Characters aren't always well balanced but they don't always know it until they have been around the block a few times, and they certainly aren't all "balanced".

It comes down to how do you want to play the game? Are the role playing sort, or just out to get all the "stuff" you can, or see every bit of mappage there is to see? The point is it doesn't matter. The game is for playing how you want to play. Not every character is going to make sense and not all of them will work. Some may work better than even the Devs imagine.

I remember plenty of times in CoH where I couldn't find a real defender because all the ones available took offensive Primaries, and it was fine. I had to learn a new tactic to survive a mission. I don't think the game is broken by allowing odd powerset combos, I think it is versatile and creatively appealing. And yeah sometimes I just didn't get to finish a mission like I had hoped to, and that was fine too.

You don't ever have to join a group, team, whatever else if you don't like how the other people are "playing the game" If the character they designed doesn't suit your likes oh well. It's an MMO so there are others with which to play.

I just can't get mad about how people made their characters... It's too much fun seeing everything everyone comes up with!

"A sad spectacle. If they be inhabited, what a scope for misery and folly. If they be not inhabited, what a waste of space." ~ Thomas Carlyle

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notears wrote:
notears wrote:

AAlbusUUmbra wrote:
notears wrote:
no pets?

Nope. Too complex; will be added after release.

Actually that was a guess as to why people chose psi/psi dominator as the worst powerset combination. Because neither power set had a pet and I remember a lot of people saying that that's why they didn't like mind control back in the day.

Psi/psi Dom being bad? What were they thinking? That was my first OH WOW villain. I owned the room

and I made sure everyone knew it.

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Wait until you see the... nope, that would ruin the surprise.

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JWBullfrog wrote:
JWBullfrog wrote:

notears wrote:
AAlbusUUmbra wrote:
notears wrote:
no pets?

Nope. Too complex; will be added after release.

Actually that was a guess as to why people chose psi/psi dominator as the worst powerset combination. Because neither power set had a pet and I remember a lot of people saying that that's why they didn't like mind control back in the day.

Psi/psi Dom being bad? What were they thinking? That was my first OH WOW villain. I owned the room
and I made sure everyone knew it.

It confounded me all the same after wiping the floor with archvillains using one.

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notears
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AAlbusUUmbra wrote:
AAlbusUUmbra wrote:

JWBullfrog wrote:
notears wrote:
AAlbusUUmbra wrote:
notears wrote:
no pets?

Nope. Too complex; will be added after release.

Actually that was a guess as to why people chose psi/psi dominator as the worst powerset combination. Because neither power set had a pet and I remember a lot of people saying that that's why they didn't like mind control back in the day.

Psi/psi Dom being bad? What were they thinking? That was my first OH WOW villain. I owned the room
and I made sure everyone knew it.

It confounded me all the same after wiping the floor with archvillains using one.

Reminds me how the first and only brute I managed to get to 50 was a kinetic/ EA despite everyone saying how much EA sucked.

TTheDDoctor
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notears wrote:
notears wrote:

AAlbusUUmbra wrote:
JWBullfrog wrote:
notears wrote:
AAlbusUUmbra wrote:
notears wrote:
no pets?

Nope. Too complex; will be added after release.

Actually that was a guess as to why people chose psi/psi dominator as the worst powerset combination. Because neither power set had a pet and I remember a lot of people saying that that's why they didn't like mind control back in the day.

Psi/psi Dom being bad? What were they thinking? That was my first OH WOW villain. I owned the room
and I made sure everyone knew it.

It confounded me all the same after wiping the floor with archvillains using one.

Reminds me how the first and only brute I managed to get to 50 was a kinetic/ EA despite everyone saying how much EA sucked.

EA? Electric Armor? Sucked? What the f- HOW THE HELL IS IT POSSIBLE FOR AN EA BRUTE TO SUCK?!?!?!?!?! EA grants nothing but resistance with no defense, which in effect allows your Brute to get hit more often, thereby increasing his rage while still keeping his survivability up. Coupled with the passive Lightning Reflexes power and that one endurance siphon AoE, and you've got a Brute so freaking godlike that it's just plain unfair. I always said that EA along with a really fast power like Claws was the ultimate Brute build, considering that in addition to EA, fast-recharging powers allow for more attacks which increases rage and thus blows DPS out of the water.

Seriously, I don't even know what they were thinking when they called you out on that...

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My original character profiles!

notears
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AAlbusUUmbra wrote:
AAlbusUUmbra wrote:

notears wrote:
AAlbusUUmbra wrote:
JWBullfrog wrote:
notears wrote:
AAlbusUUmbra wrote:
notears wrote:
no pets?

Nope. Too complex; will be added after release.

Actually that was a guess as to why people chose psi/psi dominator as the worst powerset combination. Because neither power set had a pet and I remember a lot of people saying that that's why they didn't like mind control back in the day.

Psi/psi Dom being bad? What were they thinking? That was my first OH WOW villain. I owned the room
and I made sure everyone knew it.

It confounded me all the same after wiping the floor with archvillains using one.

Reminds me how the first and only brute I managed to get to 50 was a kinetic/ EA despite everyone saying how much EA sucked.

EA? Electric Armor? Sucked? What the f- HOW THE HELL IS IT POSSIBLE FOR AN EA BRUTE TO SUCK?!?!?!?!?! EA grants nothing but resistance with no defense, which in effect allows your Brute to get hit more often, thereby increasing his rage while still keeping his survivability up. Coupled with the passive Lightning Reflexes power and that one endurance siphon AoE, and you've got a Brute so freaking godlike that it's just plain unfair. I always said that EA along with a really fast power like Claws was the ultimate Brute build, considering that in addition to EA, fast-recharging powers allow for more attacks which increases rage and thus blows DPS out of the water.
Seriously, I don't even know what they were thinking when they called you out on that...

Energy aura, not electric armour. EA is commonly associated with energy aura while eleA is commonly associated with electrical armour.

TTheDDoctor
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notears wrote:
notears wrote:

AAlbusUUmbra wrote:
notears wrote:
AAlbusUUmbra wrote:
JWBullfrog wrote:
notears wrote:
AAlbusUUmbra wrote:
notears wrote:
no pets?

Nope. Too complex; will be added after release.

Actually that was a guess as to why people chose psi/psi dominator as the worst powerset combination. Because neither power set had a pet and I remember a lot of people saying that that's why they didn't like mind control back in the day.

Psi/psi Dom being bad? What were they thinking? That was my first OH WOW villain. I owned the room
and I made sure everyone knew it.

It confounded me all the same after wiping the floor with archvillains using one.

Reminds me how the first and only brute I managed to get to 50 was a kinetic/ EA despite everyone saying how much EA sucked.

EA? Electric Armor? Sucked? What the f- HOW THE HELL IS IT POSSIBLE FOR AN EA BRUTE TO SUCK?!?!?!?!?! EA grants nothing but resistance with no defense, which in effect allows your Brute to get hit more often, thereby increasing his rage while still keeping his survivability up. Coupled with the passive Lightning Reflexes power and that one endurance siphon AoE, and you've got a Brute so freaking godlike that it's just plain unfair. I always said that EA along with a really fast power like Claws was the ultimate Brute build, considering that in addition to EA, fast-recharging powers allow for more attacks which increases rage and thus blows DPS out of the water.
Seriously, I don't even know what they were thinking when they called you out on that...

Energy aura, not electric armour. EA is commonly associated with energy aura while eleA is commonly associated with electrical armour.

Well, the more you know...

I suppose the fact that you weren't exploiting the Brute's abilities and still got your character to level 50 would help prove how mix-maxing is as viable as specialty-exploiting.

So, what possessed you to make an EA Brute? (if you don't mind me asking)

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My original character profiles!

notears
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AAlbusUUmbra wrote:
AAlbusUUmbra wrote:

notears wrote:
AAlbusUUmbra wrote:
notears wrote:
AAlbusUUmbra wrote:
JWBullfrog wrote:
notears wrote:
AAlbusUUmbra wrote:
notears wrote:
no pets?

Nope. Too complex; will be added after release.

Actually that was a guess as to why people chose psi/psi dominator as the worst powerset combination. Because neither power set had a pet and I remember a lot of people saying that that's why they didn't like mind control back in the day.

Psi/psi Dom being bad? What were they thinking? That was my first OH WOW villain. I owned the room
and I made sure everyone knew it.

It confounded me all the same after wiping the floor with archvillains using one.

Reminds me how the first and only brute I managed to get to 50 was a kinetic/ EA despite everyone saying how much EA sucked.

EA? Electric Armor? Sucked? What the f- HOW THE HELL IS IT POSSIBLE FOR AN EA BRUTE TO SUCK?!?!?!?!?! EA grants nothing but resistance with no defense, which in effect allows your Brute to get hit more often, thereby increasing his rage while still keeping his survivability up. Coupled with the passive Lightning Reflexes power and that one endurance siphon AoE, and you've got a Brute so freaking godlike that it's just plain unfair. I always said that EA along with a really fast power like Claws was the ultimate Brute build, considering that in addition to EA, fast-recharging powers allow for more attacks which increases rage and thus blows DPS out of the water.
Seriously, I don't even know what they were thinking when they called you out on that...

Energy aura, not electric armour. EA is commonly associated with energy aura while eleA is commonly associated with electrical armour.

Well, the more you know...
I suppose the fact that you weren't exploiting the Brute's abilities and still got your character to level 50 would help prove how mix-maxing is as viable as specialty-exploiting.
So, what possessed you to make an EA Brute? (if you don't mind me asking)

I'm a roleplayer and energy aura just seemed like a better fit for my concept. It's actually a good set if you play it more like a scrapper with a rage bar with a little stalker thrown in.

Foradain
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"What class should I play/is

"What class should I play/is best/is most powerful?" - Frequently heard questions around any RPG that uses classes.

"Well, which one looks fun to you?" - My standard response. ^_^

Foradain, Mage of Phoenix Rising.
Foradain's Character Conclave
Avatar courtesy of Satellite Nine.
If you can't see an image I've posted, please let me know!

TTheDDoctor
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Foradain wrote:
Foradain wrote:

"What class should I play/is best/is most powerful?" - Frequently heard questions around any RPG that uses classes.
"Well, which one looks fun to you?" - My standard response. ^_^

Nailed it. If that's the only appropriate response to that question, then the game was made correctly.

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I want to raise the

I want to raise the terminology issue again. I wasn't fond of "Partisan" because it refers to either an amateur guerilla resistance fighter or someone who takes sides in a political struggle, neither of which seems particularly relevant to a superhero game. "Striker" sounds like a melee-oriented label when you think in terms of striking someone with your hands or a melee weapon; if you think in terms of football, labour relations, or military air support, it refers to exerting force indirectly or over a distance to achieve a goal, which sounds pretty much like a ranged damage character. May I suggest "Soldier" for the empty Melee/Manipulation class-spec? I'm also not fond of "Gladiator": a slave who fights for the entertainment of others. How about "Brawler", someone keen on melee who has learned to effectively evade or resist most of the incoming damage?

I have some real issues with all of the titles in the Control Classification, but after two days I still don't have any strong replacements in mind. It looks like someone picked up a thesaurus, looked up "controller" and wrote down the first five synonyms, forgetting that a thesaurus thinks that "controller" is a synonym for "comptroller", the chief financial officer of a corporation or polity. The whole "military officers and corporate executives" theming feels to me to be better suited to a pet class, the pets being the soldiers/drones commanded by the character. Shouldn't we be thinking in terms of controlling battlefield conditions, not controlling individuals on the battlefield? Thinking along the lines of "monitor" (in the naval sense), "miner" (in the sense of someone who creates or disables minefields), "sapper" (in the sense of someone who erects or destroys temporary fortifications), "trapper", "reconnaissance", "ambusher", "flanker"... absolutely none of which are really appropriate, but I think we need to get away from the executive officer thing.

"Taskmaster" and "Ringleader" sound very specifically villainous; is this Classification only open to villains? I didn't realize CoT was doing the blue side/red side restrictions on ATs. "Engineer" sounds particularly non-villainous, and is the sort of title I'd like to see for the Control Class.

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