Announcements

Please do not use Photobucket to host your images on this site. They will not appear for other users but instead will give an error image and a directive to go to:
http://photobucket.com/p500/
For these images to show up it would require us to pay a premium account fee of $399.00 USD/year or our users to set up paid accounts of $99/year for this service to view these images.
We will be removing all linked images to that site and we suggest you use https://imgur.com/ or other similar site instead.

Watch this space for important information on planned twitch streams, updates and more

Updated Classification and Specification Chart

291 posts / 0 new
Last post
Zombie Man
Zombie Man's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 3 months ago
kickstarter
Joined: 07/26/2013 - 19:23
Updated Classification and Specification Chart

Online Community Manager & Forum Moderator

Interdictor
Interdictor's picture
Online
Last seen: 2 min 51 sec ago
11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 08/22/2013 - 05:26
Thanks ZM! Just out of

Thanks ZM! Just out of curiosity - once you have all of these "CLASPECS" up and running in the game (which I realize may take a while), would you guys be possibly looking into filling in some of the rows/columns? As in having an Assault or Manipulation Classification/Primary, or a Control or Pets Specification/Secondary?

I think these could be interesting if balanced right - in fact it occurs to me that PBs and WSs from CoH could effectively be considered to have an "Assault" primary (a mix of ranged and melee) with a Defense secondary (kind of an "Anti-Bastion") - so I guess that could work. As for the others, they may be harder to balance depending on exactly what those power groups can do - but it could be a neat thought experiment for years down the road.

Titan
Titan's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 3 months ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/02/2013 - 13:22
Thank you!

Thank you!
Any possibility of an Assault primary down the road?

Zombie Man
Zombie Man's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 3 months ago
kickstarter
Joined: 07/26/2013 - 19:23
Anything's possible. But an

Anything's possible. But an assault primary is not likely. At least not until we exhaust what's already in play. Or we get a new person in charge who says, "make it happen."

After all, in old CoH, if it were up to Castle, the powers guy, we wouldn't have had extensive Power Proliferation. But Positron overruled him and said, "make it happen."

The blank spots with the lines in them are the least likely to ever happen. The totally blank ones are pie-in-the-sky maybe-possibles. But we're looking at years after launch.. possibly... maybe...

BTW, I get all my answers from a magic 8 ball and pass them on to you!! :D

Online Community Manager & Forum Moderator

Thunder-Puncher
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 11 months ago
11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/09/2013 - 18:36
Interdictor wrote:
Interdictor wrote:

I think these could be interesting if balanced right - in fact it occurs to me that PBs and WSs from CoH could effectively be considered to have an "Assault" primary (a mix of ranged and melee) with a Defense secondary (kind of an "Anti-Bastion") - so I guess that could work. As for the others, they may be harder to balance depending on exactly what those power groups can do - but it could be a neat thought experiment for years down the road.

That's what I was thinking...,

- PB/WS's were similar to that line - Assault/Support for PB's, Assault/Off Mit for WS's. Be interesting to see implemented...not too sure about the shapeshifting though. :/

notears
notears's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 hours 43 min ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/04/2013 - 17:24
Well, it's nice to know that

Well, it's nice to know that after all the classifications here are done and over with there is the possibility of a pets/defense

Sailboat
Sailboat's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 years 3 days ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 09/30/2013 - 08:30
Can we get this pinned?

Can we get this pinned?

Captain of Phoenix Rising

Chaotic_Blues
Chaotic_Blues's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 1 month ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/29/2013 - 05:18
I wonder where the VEAT would

I wonder where the VEAT would fit in that chart? They had so many abilities, it'd be hard to firmly put them in any one spot. The Crab spiders would be Assault/Defense, and the Fortunatas would most likely be Ranged/Control or Ranged/defense. Not so sure about the Widows, or the Wolf Spiders since I didn't play either that much.

Xnarl
Xnarl's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 months 1 week ago
Developer11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/07/2013 - 22:27
Hmmm... to me, Commander

Hmmm... to me, Commander sounds much more like what is currently is the Engineer: Leading troops (and possibly teammates), or in other words, Pets/Support.
I think Manipulator should be somewhere among the control classes (leaving aside "Manipulation", which is possibly not the final name for the role, anyways).
Other Ideas to replace the current Commander: Constrictor, Trapper (replacing Brigadier?)

Cinnder
Cinnder's picture
Offline
Last seen: 54 min 56 sec ago
Gunterkickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 08/26/2013 - 16:24
As usual, your distillation

As usual, your distillation of game info into clear presentations is much appreciated, Z-man!

Something I wasn't clear on in the KS update and am still not sure about: what exactly is Assault? If Melee is close-up fighting while Ranged is far-away fighting, is Assault some kind of mid-range fighting?

Spurn all ye kindle.

Zombie Man
Zombie Man's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 3 months ago
kickstarter
Joined: 07/26/2013 - 19:23
Cinnder wrote:
Cinnder wrote:

Something I wasn't clear on in the KS update and am still not sure about: what exactly is Assault? If Melee is close-up fighting while Ranged is far-away fighting, is Assault some kind of mid-range fighting?

A mix of the two, like the Dominator's secondary in CoH: http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Dominator

Online Community Manager & Forum Moderator

Redlynne
Redlynne's picture
Offline
Last seen: 15 hours 17 min ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/28/2013 - 21:15
Actually, all of this

Actually, all of this reminiscing of what playing TERA classes was like for me is starting to make me wonder if it might not be a good idea to set up Assault as being the "Charge Powers" catch all set. So if you have something like ... say ... Snipe, where you set it up as a Charge power, so hold down the button to charge up the bar, release button to shoot, and you have multiple "levels" of charging (the progress bar changes colors for each level of charge completed), you have a sort of "backdoor" way towards getting yourself a "take your time to aim" kind of gameplay mechanic. It all just basically works as a "spend time to buff attack" sort of system, where usually the buff granted is more damage on an increasing scale ... something like x1 at charge 1, x3 at charge 2, x6 at charge 3 ... where each charge level takes 1 second to complete. The way that TERA balances all of this is that you can still move while charging so that you aren't immobilized, but you're usually moving at a reduced rate than normal while you're charging up an attack. That then opens the door to having a Glyph (think of it as a Perk that you build for) which allows for the "removal" of that movement debuff to self while charging up that specific attack, giving you full mobility while charging.

People keep asking what Assault really means, because Ranged and Melee are kind of obvious (particularly to those of us who are old hands at CoH), but Assault has a sort of ambiguous quality to it that could mean any of a number of things. If City of Titans were to include a Charging Powers mechanic that functions a great deal like it does for Berzerkers in TERA, the most appropriate place for those would be in the Assault category, because all of those powers are oriented around building your way up to delivering a Big Heavy Blow ... which "fits" the idea of an "Assault" oriented character very neatly. Also note that such game mechanics wouldn't necessarily be limited to use only on Attack Powers but could also potentially be defined as Buffs or Debuffs as well!

So for example ... let's take a pretty universal concept that everyone has when you hear the word ... SNIPER. The whole point of being a Sniper is ... One Life, One Shot, One Hit, One Kill. That's how it's supposed to work out in the REAL world anyway! Of course, that doesn't seem "fair" inside the context of a GAME, but that's the core concept.

If you build a Sniper in City of Titans, it could notionally be done as a Ranged/Assault or as an Assault/Ranged ... where the Assault powerset has within it a power that is a Charge (so press the button and hold to charge up the power over time) which then grants a buff to the next ATTACK your character makes. So for a Sniper styled/themed character, this then represents the assumed "aiming time" for whatever attack you're going to make. Now, to make this even more interesting, these kinds of Self Buff styled powers wouldn't necessarily have to apply to just being a Damage Buff alone. You could have a Charge power set up for Damage ... and have another Charge power set up for Accuracy ... and have yet another Charge power set up for Range ... and so on and so forth. Meaning that if you wanted to "blow your wad" on Charging Up to deliver the big honking "nuke" attack on some target, you could ... but you'd be spending a lot of prep time to set up for that shot because you'd be Charging multiple powers to stack a bunch of buffs onto a Single Attack. So the whole thing would "FEEL" very much like a "sniper" in that you take your time in order to make very high value, high damage attacks.

Heck, using the Charge mechanic you could even, in a somewhat roundabout and more granular fashion, even make a sort of analog of Domination and the like, where you Charge up to deliver more powerful Mez effects, or a more powerful Knockback ... or whatever.

So I'm starting to wonder if "anchoring" the entire Assault axes of Classification/Specification might not be well served by orienting them around use of some sort of Charge game mechanic for the powers made available within those choices. Note further that doing this would probably mean that a CoH Stalker might wind up being a Melee/Assault styled character if oriented around doing Assassin Strikes as a kind of "heavy hitter" build, while one that is more oriented around tricks/traps/evasion would wind up being a Melee/Manipulation type with different strengths (and weaknesses).


Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.
Lothic
Lothic's picture
Online
Last seen: 11 min 6 sec ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/02/2013 - 00:27
One of the many reasons I

One of the many reasons I like this "presentation" of how the powers will be organized is that it drives home the idea that AT/powersets are no longer linked at the hip to factions. I realize in CoH you could eventually play any AT/powerset as either a Hero or Villain but that was only after the system had to be "re-engineered" to break the original baked-in factional paradigm.

I'm also encouraged that this provides the roadmap towards making some new combos we've never seen before like a "Ranged Primary/Control Secondary". These things are cool ideas to look forward to.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

Tannim222
Tannim222's picture
Offline
Last seen: 7 hours 42 min ago
Developer11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 01/16/2013 - 12:47
As a initial proponent of

As a initial proponent of charge-up or hold for effect powers, I understand where you're coming from. However one problem has been brouhgt up consistantly when discussing this mechanic...latency. Those with poorer connectes could end up having the system read as the press was disconinuted, forcing the player to lose out on the benefit. Having this type of effect as a constant for multiple powers would ultimately result in inconsistancy of a set's performance...its a whole lot of time waiting for something to happen basically, while other people are consitantly making things happen.

That's not to say there may (as in the possiblity exsists but it is yet to be determined if applicable to the game as a whole) be some ways around this to simulate a similar effect, while allowing said player to "make things happen". I know vague right? To put it another way, i wouldn't design an entire type of sets around such a concept, there may be a few powers which can benefit from the [redacted] mechanic which does [redacted], time and testing will tell.


I don't use a nerf bat, I have a magic crowbar!
- Combat Mechanic -
Tech Team.
Allotrion
Offline
Last seen: 3 years 3 weeks ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 08/22/2013 - 13:58
Not trying to be a spelling

Not trying to be a spelling nazi, but Brigadier is misspelled as Bridagier.

Carry on.

1 eye archer
1 eye archer's picture
Offline
Last seen: 10 months 2 weeks ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 08/30/2013 - 15:08
Ok, before I ask, I had been

Ok, before I ask, I had been a CoH player for over six years, but I never got into number crunching or a lot of the other terms. I just played what I enjoyed to play. My question is will there be opportunities for toons that have ranged attacks & melee attacks available equally? Like in the show "Arrow" where he can use his bow to shoot targets & bash 'em with it when close or use a pistol & hand to hand, skilled well in both.

Deeds Not Words

Lothic
Lothic's picture
Online
Last seen: 11 min 6 sec ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/02/2013 - 00:27
1 eye archer wrote:
1 eye archer wrote:

Ok, before I ask, I had been a CoH player for over six years, but I never got into number crunching or a lot of the other terms. I just played what I enjoyed to play. My question is will there be opportunities for toons that have ranged attacks & melee attacks available equally? Like in the show "Arrow" where he can use his bow to shoot targets & bash 'em with it when close or use a pistol & hand to hand, skilled well in both.

I'd think those kind of things would be handled by the powers and animations assoicated with specific powersets. For example with a bow-oriented powerset it'd obviously have mostly ranged attack powers but it might include a low-level "bow bash" melee power for flavor that would have your guy melee smack someone with the bow. Same with a pistol-based powerset - it'd make sense for there to be one "pistol whip" melee attack that would have your guy use his pistols as a melee weapon.

Now as far as having a single powerset be spread with equal numbers of ranged and melee powers of that I'm not so sure but I guess it might be possible. If you'll notice they also put dashed lines across the entries for melee/ranged and ranged/melee combos so from that perspective it doesn't look like it'll happen anytime soon.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

Redlynne
Redlynne's picture
Offline
Last seen: 15 hours 17 min ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/28/2013 - 21:15
Tannim222 wrote:
Tannim222 wrote:

As a initial proponent of charge-up or hold for effect powers, I understand where you're coming from. However one problem has been brouhgt up consistantly when discussing this mechanic...latency. Those with poorer connectes could end up having the system read as the press was disconinuted, forcing the player to lose out on the benefit. Having this type of effect as a constant for multiple powers would ultimately result in inconsistancy of a set's performance...its a whole lot of time waiting for something to happen basically, while other people are consitantly making things happen.

Not to be argumentative or anything, just for the sake of being argumentative ... but I don't think this objection holds up quite so well as it would seem at first glance.

The idea that if I'm lagged out due to high latency that I can "keep up" with everyone else as far as activity and "action" is concerned is a point that feels ... wobbly, to me. Point being, that if my connection gets hit with a lag spike, the server isn't going be responding to what I do on my end no matter whether I'm trying to cue some click powers or toggle on/off a power or whatever. When lag hits, MY responsiveness inside the game takes a hit because the server can't "hear" what I'm doing on my client.

With respect to this argument, and don't get me wrong, it does have some legitimacy ... but only up to a point ... and so something that the Tech Team will need to decide for itself is ... what's a "reasonable" amount of Latency to design the user interface around, in terms of an upper boundary cutoff, where "beyond this point" there's diminishing returns for accomodating those increasingly poor performance metrics. Essentially, do you want to DESIGN your game to be "playable" in such a way that a person with a 2000ms latency "is not penalized" relative to a persona with a 200ms latency. In other words, how "tolerant" of network latency do you want your game to be?

Active Combat System games (what people around here call "twitch" games) are relatively unforgiving of Latency, and for reasons that ought to be pretty obvious. However, that "lack of forgiveness" for high Latency usually revolves around "quick" actions that need to happen (and animate) in very short time frames. Things like Blocking Actions that tend to be Reactive in response to changing conditions in the environment (such as being attacked by a Foe) fall into this category of being "unforgiving" of Latency because they rely on quick judgements and split-second timing to get right and accomplish "in time" to be effective. A *LOT* of those sorts of concerns become less demanding when you're talking about a Charge mechanic that takes place over multiple seconds when charging up to full in order to execute a power or an action. Any action that involves a Progress Bar of some kind is going to tend to be a lot more "forgiving" of network Latency than a direct, instant action "Click" type response would be.

I'd be surprised if there weren't certain "biases" you could build into the client/server relationship that could substantially mitigate (although probably not eliminate) these sorts of concerns for Charge Over Time sorts of powers. Things like, once a Charge is initiated, the server just assumes that the Charge state continues until receiving a confirmation that Charge state on the client has been ended. That way, a constant stream of "I'm still charging, I'm still charging, I'm still charging" data from the client is not required, making the system more latency tolerant. Conversely, you could set up the "rollover" condition in which an Overcharge (where your character is taking damage in order gain an even greater benefit than is "safe") following a Charge DOES require that constant stream of "I'm still overcharging, I'm still overcharging, I'm still overcharging" to verify that the player is still commanding that such a condition be maintained.

So, as an example, the way I would expect this sort of thing to behave in an intermittently "choppy" latent connection would be that if I begin Charging, if a command to "release" that power is lagged out by latency, all that happens is that the server holds the (safe!) Charge longer, up to the point where the Charge would "have to" be released (because it can't be held indefinitely). So if the game "makes a mistake" in interpreting the User Commands due to latency, the bias is leaning towards giving the player the benefit of the doubt and just "holding" the Charge for as long as possible, safely, instead of leaning towards a potential False Positive of assuming the Charge action had been terminated prematurely due to lost packets or a lag spike. So "release" of a Charge, activating the power (and its effects) server side is predicated on either receiving a confirming command from the client or the maximum duration for the Charge to be held via the server clock, whichever comes first. This is because in a high latency or otherwise "choppy" network connection, there are fewer downsides to having a Charge last longer than the player intends than there are to having it last shorter than desired.

The reverse of that bias would then be built in for any Overcharge states, because these would necessarily involve the character hurting themselves and for THAT you want to have continuous validation that such as state is both desired and commanded. So for any power that has an Overcharge condition available to it, Charge rolls over directly into Overcharge, but if the client either isn't (or can't) continuously broadcast that the Overcharge state is to be maintained, then the Overcharge is terminated. This then helps prevent Unintended Suicide Courtesy Of Latency from occurring.

I know this shouldn't be necessary to mention, but for those people who are wondering about what I'm referring to with all this mention of TERA and its mechanics, have a look at this Archer Guide starting at around 2:24-3:11 covering Penetrating Arrow, which is Charge skill for Archers with an Overcharge to it, as well as Radiant Arrow at 5:02-5:40 to see what I'm talking about. If you haven't "seen" this sort of thing operating in PvE gameplay before, I find it really helpful to actually be able to SEE the kinds of behaviors it produces to truly grasp the potentials and possibilities. You can also see the full UI, including the Progress Bar on Charge/Overcharge of skills during the discussion on Glyphs starting at 11:20-13:09, where you can see the Progress Bar when Charging go from green to orange to red to Flashing Red once Overcharge has been reached. This makes for a good demonstration of what this sort of thing would look like on a Ranged powerset such as a Blaster or a Defender would use.

If you'd rather see what a Charge/Overcharge would look like on a Melee powerset, I recommend this Berzerker Guide, which includes interesting tidbits like using a Block skill to "cancel cast" of a Charge skill at 1:10-1:28. It also shows use of a PBAoE attack skill that is a Charge+Overcharge skill at 1:28-2:50, with a really good explanation of Overcharge in the second half of that segment. There's also using Charge/Overcharge with a single target attack at 3:27-4:39 (although minor naughty language warning). Then there's the Vampiric Blow which is a Charge Only skill because it's essentially a damage leecher to heal the caster, so an Overcharge that does damage to yourself doesn't make any sense for it, which appears at 5:10-5:41.

The important thing to remember for the City of Titans Dev Team is that although TERA uses a "full" Active Combat System where it's all about positioning and hitboxes, which needless to say is very UNforgiving of latency and network lag, there is nothing which says that the majority of City of Titans combat needs to follow the same model. Indeed, if you were to go to something more akin to a "hybrid" model like Tabula Rasa had, you'd get "the better of both worlds" where you require placing center screen reticle on target to ACQUIRE at target, but can then hit TAB in order to Lock onto your target, meaning camera orientation is no longer necessary in order to be able to attack (and hit) your target so long as they remain on your screen (and within range of your attacks, of course). This then gives you access to a more "latency forgiving" environment for interactions which doesn't require a low latency connection to the servers in order to remain "effective" (as opposed to "efficient"). At the same time, Charge/Overcharge type powers can be structured to work in such a way as to bias themselves in the Player's "favor" in the event of a "choppy" or otherwise high latency connection to the servers, which would (in effect) give the Player "the benefit of the doubt" in the event that a confirmation event from the client doesn't (or can't) arrive in a timely fashion.

Hope this helps clarify things for anyone who is interested in this particular gameplay mechanic, its potential "behaviors" when used in gameplay, and the sorts of considerations that would need to be going on "under the hood" in the programming of the client/server relationships to handle these kinds of user interface elements.


Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.
Tannim222
Tannim222's picture
Offline
Last seen: 7 hours 42 min ago
Developer11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 01/16/2013 - 12:47
All very well understood,

All very well understood, believe me. It doesn't change the fact that for some players, this or one very close to it on other games can be at times, horribly broken for them to use. Like I've mentioned we may have a way to make something along these lines work, which is a lot more forgiving on both the power design, the technical design, and easier for the player to use. If the mechanic is found to be viable, how and where it shows up in powers is something we will need to explore. I can say one thing with certainty, it won't show up in every power set in the game, and when it does, it may not do what you're exactly looking for with regards to one power changing animations, or combining two different powers into a new power for example.


I don't use a nerf bat, I have a magic crowbar!
- Combat Mechanic -
Tech Team.
Redlynne
Redlynne's picture
Offline
Last seen: 15 hours 17 min ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/28/2013 - 21:15
Tannim222 wrote:
Tannim222 wrote:

It doesn't change the fact that for some players, this or one very close to it on other games can be at times, horribly broken for them to use.

Also doesn't change the fact that beyond a certain point, no matter what you do, excessive Latency will make ANY GAME pretty much horribly broken and unplayable. I mean, with Latency levels being equal, how is a Clicks And Toggles only combat system a better (or at least, more "forgiving") one for High Latency Users than one which includes some kind of Charge game mechanic in it for SOME of the Powers (as opposed to all of them). I mean, Latency hurts EVERYONE, doesn't it?


Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.
Tannim222
Tannim222's picture
Offline
Last seen: 7 hours 42 min ago
Developer11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 01/16/2013 - 12:47
It can, and it comes to a

It can, and it comes to a point where you design for a certain threshold. We want this game to be as accessible as possible, which means in certain respects, some things may have to be sacrificed. And look, I like the idea, i inititally asked for it and argued for it. I get it, I do. And its not to say "this will never happen" its certainly possible at some point it "may happen". Yet the speciifc way it is being presented, at this time, is not being planned. Beyond this, I'm not going to argue about it. That being said, what if we do have a mechanic which does allow for something similar to occur.? Like i said it won't combine multiple powers into one power, but it may alter certain aspects of what a given power does, and atop of this, can be done in a way which by and large works within the given system so as not to cause issues for those with latency above what the normal click and toggles does. In my opinion, it is an equitable solution.


I don't use a nerf bat, I have a magic crowbar!
- Combat Mechanic -
Tech Team.
Scott Jackson
Offline
Last seen: 16 hours 10 min ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/20/2013 - 20:13
When this effort was just

When this effort was just getting started, I had placed a dual-mode combat system into the design document, enabling a player's choice to use either COH-like combat or an Active Combat System (called ACM), with some minor limit on how often they can switch, and balancing the benefits of each ACS feature against some extra effort/risk/limitation that the player would face by using it. This dual system wouldn't have been available at launch, of course, but was to be a future feature to satisfy those who prefer active combat and who have the connection reliability to support it. ACS (or some alternate mode within it) was also intended to make it easier to develop later console adaptations of the game, so that it could be marketed to a wider audience.

It was designed as a hybrid, not full "twitchy" mode, and would allow players to try the added complexity and revert back if they didn't enjoy it. They could use it on some characters but not others, and perhaps mostly importantly have freedom to use or ignore each ACS feature moment-to-moment (e.g. charging, blocking, taking cover, using environmental effects...or not) so as to never get in the way of the player's fun.

It seemed to be the only way to access the complete market for a superhero game while still addressing connectivity issues and preserving the casual atmosphere for any player, on demand. I don't know whether this proposal remains in whatever design documents that MWM is using, but I hope it does.

Northie
Northie's picture
Offline
Last seen: 11 months 3 weeks ago
11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 11/03/2013 - 07:17
Tannim222 wrote:
Tannim222 wrote:

As a initial proponent of charge-up or hold for effect powers, I understand where you're coming from. However one problem has been brouhgt up consistantly when discussing this mechanic...latency. Those with poorer connectes could end up having the system read as the press was disconinuted, forcing the player to lose out on the benefit. Having this type of effect as a constant for multiple powers would ultimately result in inconsistancy of a set's performance...its a whole lot of time waiting for something to happen basically, while other people are consitantly making things happen.

This concerns me a little bit. Do you expect the game to lag a lot? I mean is this somehow related to the game engine you are using? CO seems to be doing okay with this design and I personally find it adds a certain level of tactics to combat as charged and channeled powers can be interrupted. It's just that most games use this poorly with more charge --> more power instead of charging --> extra effects.

What about power chains?

I understand (even if it's a bit disappointing) if you don't want charge up powers or "channeled" powers but at least please consider using power chains. I.e. we have a "fire blast" which functions like a chain: 1st attack is moderate ranged fire, 2nd attack is moderate ranged fire, 3rd attack is high fire and small AoE. GW2 uses this method for their autoattacks and it's very good for us who have trouble with tons of keys.

I'm a bit concerned that you go fully CoH route where the power diversity wasn't that great and where it took quite a long time to build a good power chain. For example as an ice blaster you would have ice bolt, ice blast, bitter ice blast. Those are essentially same power and the only difference is damage, endrurance cost and recharge. Yet they ended up eating three key slots though honestly I almost always passed ice bolt because you could completely remove the recharge from ice blast with 2 recharge reductions & some global recharge reductions.

This is not good for me as I'm not very good at managing multiple keys at same time. I'm pretty comfortable running 10 active powers tops. Keyed to keys 1-5 and ALT+1-5. Beyond that it becomes a hurdle. If this is still the design please provide a macro system where I can combine multiple powers to chain after each other.

Redlynne
Redlynne's picture
Offline
Last seen: 15 hours 17 min ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/28/2013 - 21:15
With respect to Keybinding

With respect to Keybinding Layouts ... I personally use a WER/SDF for movement, instead of the more typical QWE/ASD, because it moves my left hand one key over to the right on the keyboard. That then gives me easy access to the 1-6 keys, and the F1-F6 keys as well (Apple keyboard user here), puts the `/~ key within easy reach (often bind this for rapid targeting purposes, such as the Scrapperlock Keybind of "targetenemynear$$follow") and I can reach the 7 and F7 keys with only a quick glance at the keyboard to make sure my fingers are stretching far enough to do this. I can then use my pinky finger to hit the Shift, Control and Alt keys as modifiers to all of the above using only one hand ... although use of these modifiers does slow down my reaction speed a bit compared to not having to use them.


Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.
Tannim222
Tannim222's picture
Offline
Last seen: 7 hours 42 min ago
Developer11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 01/16/2013 - 12:47
Quote:
Quote:

This concerns me a little bit. Do you expect the game to lag a lot?

Its not an expectation of server performance itself (which is something we do have to keep in mind when designing and implementing a powers system all those powers and effects going off and all). Its more that we need to keep in mind those who may have poorer connections, in the past we have had others voice their concerns over such hold down for effect as basically being useless for them they can't use them in CO or NW because of their connection. It is more simply a matter of being aware of the possible issue that can arise where by no fault of the player an implemented mechanic can be interrupted and result in basically what amounts to a penalty against the player.

Which is why I said we might have a possible mechanic which can simulate hold for effect type mechanics. No guarantees yet, we still have some things to figure out with it so it can be used in more than a few edge cases and make it worthwhile to spend time on coding and testing it.

Quote:

I'm a bit concerned that you go fully CoH route where the power diversity wasn't that great and where it took quite a long time to build a good power chain. For example as an ice blaster you would have ice bolt, ice blast, bitter ice blast. Those are essentially same power and the only difference is damage, endrurance cost and recharge. Yet they ended up eating three key slots though honestly I almost always passed ice bolt because you could completely remove the recharge from ice blast with 2 recharge reductions & some global recharge reductions.

My personal view is that being able to choose which of those 3 powers you want to use at all and when you want to use them is less restrictive to them being forced into a specific chain where you must cycle through them invidividually before getting to that attack you really want to happen. This may be ok if you are using a combo system for additional effects to occur (i say may i prefere combos which are a little more flexible). The key here is that looking at CoH in many instances players either used their t1 attack because it offered really good DPA, while others only saw the damage and passed on it. This is a tactical and build question each player should either lean about or reach a conclusion on their own.

And I'll note, again this is a personal view and we do have some on the team which are fans of CO or at least did like multiple aspects of it. So this is not to say such a thing won't ever show up either. It is something we will undoubtedly talk about and which players who have difficulty with such systems due to connection issues will also figure into our decision making.


I don't use a nerf bat, I have a magic crowbar!
- Combat Mechanic -
Tech Team.
Izzy
Izzy's picture
Offline
Last seen: 7 months 7 hours ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/09/2013 - 11:09
Redlynne wrote:
Redlynne wrote:

...set up Assault as being the ...Charge Power, so hold down the button to charge up the bar, release button to shoot, and you have multiple "levels" of charging ...

Noooooooooo! When i played Scarlet Blade (dont knock it) i saw some merrit in the charge mechanic, BUT... if I wanted to inflict MAX damage I would sit there Staring at the Stupid bar chargin instead of being Immersed in the Environment and the situation. Puhlease Nooo! :P

And in Champions Online, if you Hold it for too long... you just wasted time and didnt get the Last Hit, and someone stole your Kill. Awesome! :/ And if you Dont hold it till its FULL, guess what, you dont get the Effect that FULL would give you! thats Stupid! Really.. Why not have it Scale the Effect to match the Stinking Charged Amount!? :P

And dont get me started on some of the Animations in combat. They dont seem right! Accelerates too fast, takes forever, and just doesnt have that POW feel. I want my Enemy to FEEL what the Rock is Dishing out! ;) And I want to see them flinch, or pull back, or Whatever! It just "Needs to Feel Real!" Maybe i should make that my SLOGAN! ;)

Lin Chiao Feng
Lin Chiao Feng's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 22 hours ago
Developerkickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 11/02/2013 - 09:27
Tannim222, I'm not clear why

Tannim222, I'm not clear why you'd need for the client to send more than, say, two packets: one for start and one for release. Is it out of the question for the server to allow the client some "slop" in packet latency, i.e. when the server is verifying that the amount of charge time declared in the "release" message (or the difference between the client-side timestamps on the two messages; however it's implemented) makes sense given the server-side timestamps, how much difference is allowed?

Can the server not "pend" the resolution of the action for half a second to a second, in case the release packet is delayed? Are there other packets the client can delay sending, effectively giving priority to the release packet? If this is UDP, can the client preemptively send two or three copies of this packet in certain cases (e.g. lag has been detected on the connection in the past thirty seconds) to have better odds one gets through?

Just wondering how this is handled because I hope to help you guys out with coding sometime soon. (I've got a couple decades of C++, a decade of Python, and a whole mess of other things, even some SQL. Doing a lot of Django these days. Two Macs and a few Gentoo boxes (two dual-boot Windows) at home. Use the source, Luke.)

Has anyone seen my mind? It was right here...

Voldine
Voldine's picture
Offline
Last seen: 8 months 1 week ago
11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/05/2013 - 10:57
Would a more elegant solution

Would a more elegant solution to the 'charge for power' issue be to simply not hav it be a 'hold' mechanic...but require the power be activated a second time to release the charge?

This would appear to completely mitigate the latency issue.
Press button once. Power begins charging.
Press again, power releases built charge, activates.
Another power is activated, power releases built charge, activates.
Power reaches maximum charge and stays there for more than five seconds without the target changing, power releases built charge, activates.

Granted this would likely be hell to code properly, but it would be a very elegant solution. Just make it so that the charge is not for direct damage and only tacks on extra effects like stun, knockdown, immobilize, or similar so that someone that is using the power for part of an attack chain where the secondary charge effect is either unneeded or undesirable is not penalized for attacking efficiently.

The original Lady of Ysgard. -Virtue

DeathSheepFromHell
DeathSheepFromHell's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 week 3 days ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 03/16/2013 - 15:08
Not going to jump into the

Not going to jump into the full power discussion involved here (for a variety of reasons, but primarily because a whole lot of it simply isn't even remotely nailed down yet, as in probably a lot less than folks are assuming even from Tannim's limited statements), but I can speak to the client/server model involved.

Unreal is built around a hybrid setup, with both reliable and unreliable updates. For those that know much of anything about networking, yes, this mostly means acknowledged or unacknowledged UDP updates, and any given update cannot exceed a single packet. Some things are a lot more tolerant of being 'out of sync' by as much as a couple of seconds than others are, and packet *loss* is actually generally a much worse problem than simple latency, because humans turn out to actually be relatively good at accounting for latency by adjusting their timing and play-style (within reason), while loss is by nature unpredictable and highly disruptive. There are ways to try to account for it server-side, but speaking from experience many of them end up nearly as problematic as just not firing the power at all.

That said, I would argue that having or not-having charge mechanics *in a given set* is something that should probably be driven by play style design considerations rather than pure technical and network factors, since it is fairly well demonstrated that anything all the way up to 'twitch' reaction times is clearly handled by the engine (it *is* an FPS engine, after all).

Please, everyone, remember to apply the standard disclaimer here as well: we're two years out, any any given particular thing could well end up needing to be changed not all that long before opening -- as anyone who has played in a closed beta should be able to tell you. Yeah, we're not likely to go changing the entire framework of stuff that late, but right now? If someone came up with a solid argument for why everything to date was fundamentally broken? Well, okay, we'd probably still try to salvage a big chunk just because it is so unlikely that *every* aspect would be broken all at once, but really... "set in stone" doesn't apply here. In fact, "set in mud" may not yet apply in several cases... you're seeing the ugly sausage-making aspects of some of it. Don't freak out too badly over the fact that it looks like sausage being made.


Developer Emeritus
and multipurpose sheep

Redlynne
Redlynne's picture
Offline
Last seen: 15 hours 17 min ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/28/2013 - 21:15
Izzy wrote:
Izzy wrote:

Noooooooooo! When i played Scarlet Blade (dont knock it) i saw some merrit in the charge mechanic, BUT... if I wanted to inflict MAX damage I would sit there Staring at the Stupid bar chargin instead of being Immersed in the Environment and the situation. Puhlease Nooo! :P

I've never played Scarlet Blade, so I don't know how that game ran its mechanics. I will however say that if you're working with a game system that Roots On Charge of powers, then that would be dull, dumb and boring in most cases ... although I suppose I could make a case where it would be appropriate/mandatory for some specific kinds of actions (such as making a long range Sniper shot, for example).

TERA uses Charge mechanics, as I've explained elsewhere, and nominally these work on a 1-2-3/4-5-6-7 kind of system, where you Charge at 1 Level per second, and beyond 3 seconds of Charge you're into Overcharge where you start hurting yourself for even greater effects. In TERA, the Overcharge stuff is almost exclusively limited to the Berzerker Class ... which is the "blood 'n' guts" spike damage class of the game. The thing is, in TERA, if you're using a Charge to attack with, you aren't Rooted into place, but are merely slowed from your normal movement speed (so you're still mobile, just not AS mobile as normal). That then gives the game "room" to add in special modifiers that you can pick which essentially eliminate this slowed movement effect while Charging up your powers to attack with ... meaning full mobility while preparing to strike. Furthermore, there are other Glyphs that you can select which will make the Charge happen FASTER ... so instead of taking 7 seconds to reach Max Overcharge, it only takes 5 seconds. So instead of playing (and sounding like) "choom ... choom ... choom ... choom" the tempo of Charging is faster so that it plays, sounds and feels more like "choom choom choom choom" and there is a very noticeable difference in how quickly attacks Charge, and how long you have to "wait" (while still moving around) before you're ready to "unload" them onto your target(s).

TERA did a very good job of this, because it's a game mechanic that forces (or at least, rewards) the Player for thinking and planning a few seconds ahead, rather than just being an instant attack button masher. It requires a different headspace in order to play than a purely click heavy set of abilities, and has a very different sense of gratification for being able to (reliably!) pull off heavier hitting attacks due to Player Skill and foresight augmented by improved situational awareness. In other words, it's s different kind of challenge, and one that is actually quite fun to play.


Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.
Lin Chiao Feng
Lin Chiao Feng's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 22 hours ago
Developerkickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 11/02/2013 - 09:27
DeathSheepFromHell wrote:
DeathSheepFromHell wrote:

That said, I would argue that having or not-having charge mechanics *in a given set* is something that should probably be driven by play style design considerations rather than pure technical and network factors, since it is fairly well demonstrated that anything all the way up to 'twitch' reaction times is clearly handled by the engine (it *is* an FPS engine, after all).

* cheers.

DeathSheepFromHell wrote:

Please, everyone, remember to apply the standard disclaimer here as well: we're two years out, any any given particular thing could well end up needing to be changed not all that long before opening -- as anyone who has played in a closed beta should be able to tell you. Yeah, we're not likely to go changing the entire framework of stuff that late, but right now? If someone came up with a solid argument for why everything to date was fundamentally broken? Well, okay, we'd probably still try to salvage a big chunk just because it is so unlikely that *every* aspect would be broken all at once, but really... "set in stone" doesn't apply here. In fact, "set in mud" may not yet apply in several cases... you're seeing the ugly sausage-making aspects of some of it. Don't freak out too badly over the fact that it looks like sausage being made.

Not freaking out at all, just trying to theorize how it could be done.

BTW, my standard disclaimer is that I'm not going to ask you to do anything I'm not willing to sit down and write the code for, should you need it.

* pats his copy of Stevens' Unix Network Programming.

Has anyone seen my mind? It was right here...

LeadWanderer
LeadWanderer's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 month 1 week ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/13/2013 - 22:41
Where's the Blapper? Can we

Where's the Blapper? Can we make some specification Blapper Oriented? I duno how you could encorperate it, but somehow I think there could be a defense, or regen, or damage boost from surviving, or knocking out enemies as you do exactly what the glass canon or boxing glove, is not suposed to do... >.> Or in this case, working as intended?

"When all the world is dark, look for me, I'll be your light."

Follow me @SequentialRTim

Read Bleeding Edges!

Subjectivity
Subjectivity's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 years 7 months ago
Joined: 10/08/2013 - 14:56
I totally agree. Commander

I totally agree. Commander sounds like the perfect name for the one with the pets. The Control set is the hardest one to name (though the support class is also tough.) Manipulator sounds too evil, and while Controller seems very generic and not like something that would be copyrighted, I guess we should still stay away from it.

Guardian sounds more like a tank... again, tank is such a generic term! Can we really not use it? I'd want to call the Support class a Supporter, except that sounds like a jock strap or something. It would be easier if we could just call them by their role. Support and Control, without fancy names.

"No death, no doom, no anguish can arouse the surpassing despair which flows from a loss of identity." -H.P. Lovecraft

Redlynne
Redlynne's picture
Offline
Last seen: 15 hours 17 min ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/28/2013 - 21:15
Currently on Zombie Man's

Currently on Zombie Man's chart:
Classification -> Mitigation -> Control = Commander

Change to:
Classification -> Mitigation -> Control = Strategist

You can then change the classes listed to be thus:

Classification: Mitigation / Control = Strategist
Specification: Offense / Ranged = Operative
Specification: Offense / Assault = Agent [Dominator]
Specification: Mitigation / Support = Asset [Controller]


Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.
Sailboat
Sailboat's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 years 3 days ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 09/30/2013 - 08:30
Subjectivity wrote:
Subjectivity wrote:

tank is such a generic term! Can we really not use it?

I always thought "Anvil" was a better descriptor of how MMORPG "Tanks" are usually played. Military strategists would tell us "tanks" are offensive weapons, best employed using speed and mobility.

Captain of Phoenix Rising

Foradain
Foradain's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 hours 36 min ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/25/2013 - 21:06
Sailboat wrote:
Sailboat wrote:

Subjectivity wrote:
tank is such a generic term! Can we really not use it?
I always thought "Anvil" was a better descriptor of how MMORPG "Tanks" are usually played. Military strategists would tell us "tanks" are offensive weapons, best employed using speed and mobility.

I like Brick, myself ^_^

Foradain, Mage of Phoenix Rising.
Foradain's Character Conclave
Avatar courtesy of Satellite Nine.
If you can't see an image I've posted, please let me know!

JayBezz
JayBezz's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 month 1 week ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/08/2013 - 14:54
Am I the only one who likes

Am I the only one who likes to call a spade a spade?

Range DPS
Melee DPS
Tank
Buff
Debuff
Pets

that's our 6 classes. Are you a Ranged DPS Tank? Good I know what that is.. Are you a "Vindicator".. crap.. what is that supposed to mean again…

I love style but I prefer substance. Naming the actual types for cosmetic reasons seems to only succeed in making people more confused. If anything I'd love if the style was specific to City of Titans and not randomly picked from a Thesaurus

Crowd Control Enthusiast

Wanders
Wanders's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 months 2 weeks ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/25/2013 - 20:12
JayBezz wrote:
JayBezz wrote:

I love style but I prefer substance. Naming the actual types for cosmetic reasons seems to only succeed in making people more confused. If anything I'd love if the style was specific to City of Titans and not randomly picked from a Thesaurus

itym, "if the style was specific to 'Superhero MMO Game'". This "What Would JayBezz Call It?" has the makings of a good forum game. ;-)

Global: @Second Chances
SG: Fusion Force
"And it's not what I wanted
Oh no, it's not what I planned
See it's not where I thought I'd be
It's just where I am"

JayBezz
JayBezz's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 month 1 week ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/08/2013 - 14:54
Wanders wrote:
Wanders wrote:

itym, "if the style was specific to 'Superhero MMO Game'". This "What Would JayBezz Call It?" has the makings of a good forum game. ;-)

Since you choose the archetype at character creation then instead of calling them weird names.. just give us a pair of trainers.

Train with Rottie and Anthem - You're a Melee DPS / Tank
Train with Tyche and Tyche's Beard - You're a pet using controller
(just one example)

I mean use something that is going to add to the lore of CoT

Another Example (top of my head) -
You go through the tutorial that lets you experience all 6 playstyles and upon completion you choose (Some people don't know they love playing "mez characters" because they never tried it) Based on the track you complete in the tutorial your role is presented to you in symbol form that shows up next to your UI Avatar

I'm just saying there are better ways to show this data without being needlessly confusing

Crowd Control Enthusiast

Cinnder
Cinnder's picture
Offline
Last seen: 54 min 56 sec ago
Gunterkickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 08/26/2013 - 16:24
Interesting: I always found

Interesting: I always found referring to specific classes as "DPS" strange, because every class does some amount of damage per second.

"Are you DPS?"
"Yes."
"Hey, you're a rad/elec def! You said you were DPS!"
"I still do DPS. Maybe not as much D per S as a blaster, but I do."

It's kinda like referring to cake as CPB (calories per bite).

Spurn all ye kindle.

Redlynne
Redlynne's picture
Offline
Last seen: 15 hours 17 min ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/28/2013 - 21:15
Blaster = Hit Point Debuffer

Blaster = Hit Point Debuffer


Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.
Cutter
Offline
Last seen: 3 days 15 hours ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/11/2013 - 07:44
Range DPS = Shooter

Range DPS = Shooter
Melee DPS = Hitter
Tank = Meatshield
Buff = Embetterer
Debuff = Disembetterer
Pets = Frame Rate Destroyer

Allotrion
Offline
Last seen: 3 years 3 weeks ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 08/22/2013 - 13:58
Cutter wrote:
Cutter wrote:

Range DPS = Shooter
Melee DPS = Hitter
Tank = Meatshield
Buff = Embetterer
Debuff = Disembetterer
Pets = Frame Rate Destroyer

**Runs off and camps Disembetterer as my first Titan's name**

Random citizen1: "Is that a bird?"
Random citizen2: "Is that a plane?"
Random citizen3: "No, it's...Disentangler, err, I mean, Disemboweler...Disen..Dis...aww Pancake it! It's a dude in tights!"

Ebon_Justice
Ebon_Justice's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 month 1 day ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 09/28/2013 - 13:17
Redlynne wrote:
Redlynne wrote:

With respect to Keybinding Layouts ... I personally use a WER/SDF for movement, instead of the more typical QWE/ASD, because it moves my left hand one key over to the right on the keyboard. That then gives me easy access to the 1-6 keys, and the F1-F6 keys as well (Apple keyboard user here), puts the `/~ key within easy reach (often bind this for rapid targeting purposes, such as the Scrapperlock Keybind of "targetenemynear$$follow") and I can reach the 7 and F7 keys with only a quick glance at the keyboard to make sure my fingers are stretching far enough to do this. I can then use my pinky finger to hit the Shift, Control and Alt keys as modifiers to all of the above using only one hand ... although use of these modifiers does slow down my reaction speed a bit compared to not having to use them.

Ooh, I never thought if this. I like it ... it's almost like turning your keyboard into one of those multi-key pads. I need to try it on a less-played game and see if I can adapt to it ...

Gangrel
Offline
Last seen: 7 months 1 week ago
11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 09/15/2013 - 15:14
I just skipped that and got a

I just skipped that and got a game pad. I find it easier (personally speaking) because with the Logitech G13, I have set the thumbstick as my targeting (target nearest, next, previous, nearest friendly).

Sure, its quite a bit of change to lay out, but I find it easier overall (not to mention as well that as I don't have enough room on my desk tray for both my mouse and keyboard at the same time, I can game without giving myself wrist cramps)

Quote:

1) I reject your reality.... and substitute my own
2) Not to be used when upset... will void warranty
3) Stoke me a clipper i will be back for dinner
4) I have seen more intelligence from an NPC AI in TR beta, than from most MMO players.

Ebon_Justice
Ebon_Justice's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 month 1 day ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 09/28/2013 - 13:17
Gangrel wrote:
Gangrel wrote:

... not to mention as well that as I don't have enough room on my desk tray for both my mouse and keyboard at the same time ...

Good reason ^_^ I've thought about getting one myself many times, but I've always been worried I'll take forever to adjust ... but I never even thought about changing how my keyboard interacts to improve my options.

Eh, someday ...

Redlynne
Redlynne's picture
Offline
Last seen: 15 hours 17 min ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/28/2013 - 21:15
Ebon_Justice wrote:
Ebon_Justice wrote:

Ooh, I never thought if this. I like it ... it's almost like turning your keyboard into one of those multi-key pads. I need to try it on a less-played game and see if I can adapt to it ...

I won't lie, switching from QWE/ASD over to using WER/SDF instead as my "default" position for my left hand took a little getting used to (like about a week of gaming) before I stopped reflexively resting my hand in the (now) wrong place. However, once I made the transition, the resulting "freedom" it gave me to reach the number and function keys was very welcome, since it made it easier to access more keys "blindly" without needing to look down at my keyboard (~ through 6 instead of just ~ through 5). Also, the shift of my fingers on the keys gave me more room on the vertical QAZ axis along the side to use for "other functions" as needed. In Star Trek Online, I use my Q and A keys as my keyboard throttle controls (Q for throttle up, A for throttle down) when in space, for example, and have Shift+Q bound as my Full Impulse/Quantum Slipstream Drive keybind.

The game that prompted me to make this change in my overall keybind patterning was, ironically, World of Warcraft, when I found myself trying to cram all of my skills and powers into a (mere) 48 slots in the available trays, and having more skills and powers I needed to use than were within easy reach of my fingers. After retraining myself to use WER/SDF, I really can't imagine ever wanting to go back to QWE/ASD because the latter feels so ... cramped as far as being able to reach lots of keyboard keys easily.


Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.
Gangrel
Offline
Last seen: 7 months 1 week ago
11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 09/15/2013 - 15:14
Ebon_Justice wrote:
Ebon_Justice wrote:

Gangrel wrote:
... not to mention as well that as I don't have enough room on my desk tray for both my mouse and keyboard at the same time ...

Good reason ^_^ I've thought about getting one myself many times, but I've always been worried I'll take forever to adjust ... but I never even thought about changing how my keyboard interacts to improve my options.
Eh, someday ...

Swapping over wont take as long as you think it would. Bonus points for the 3 layouts you can set up per profile.

I tend to use one profile per game that I am playing heavily, and I really should set up a *generic* setup for FPS and MMO's, but seeing as most games tend to use the same *generic* setup for movement, its more often than not that I just end up swapping strafe and turning in the base keybinds (so I don't get confused when I swap between laptop and desktop)

Quote:

1) I reject your reality.... and substitute my own
2) Not to be used when upset... will void warranty
3) Stoke me a clipper i will be back for dinner
4) I have seen more intelligence from an NPC AI in TR beta, than from most MMO players.

Ebon_Justice
Ebon_Justice's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 month 1 day ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 09/28/2013 - 13:17
Range DPS = Rocketteer

Range DPS = Rocketteer
Melee DPS = Doc Sampson
Tank = Dum Dum Dugan
Buff = Audrey Ramirez
Debuff = Dr. Hans Zarkov
Pets = John "Hannibal" Smith

Lin Chiao Feng
Lin Chiao Feng's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 22 hours ago
Developerkickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 11/02/2013 - 09:27
Also, QWE/ASD sticks the Caps

Also, QWE/ASD sticks the Caps Lock key right under your pinkie. Real useful... not. >_<

Has anyone seen my mind? It was right here...

Clave Dark 5
Clave Dark 5's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 week 6 days ago
Developerkickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 12/06/2012 - 19:18
DO NOT SPEAK ILL OF THE

DO NOT SPEAK ILL OF THE CAPSLOCK KEY FOR IT IS CRUISE CONTROL FOR COOL!

___
"What you say is rather profound, and probably erroneous." - Joseph Conrad
“The universe is made up of stories, not of atoms” - Muriel Rukeyser
Composition Team

Darth Fez
Darth Fez's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 days 22 hours ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 09/20/2013 - 07:53
Picture memes haven't

Picture memes haven't dethroned the caps lock key yet?

SADFACE.JPG

- - - - -
Hail Beard!

Support trap clowns for CoT!

Lin Chiao Feng
Lin Chiao Feng's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 22 hours ago
Developerkickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 11/02/2013 - 09:27
Clave Dark 5 wrote:
Clave Dark 5 wrote:

DO NOT SPEAK ILL OF THE CAPSLOCK KEY FOR IT IS CRUISE CONTROL FOR COOL!

ORLY? Then tell the tech team to make this work:

/bind capslock toggle_fonzie_walk

Has anyone seen my mind? It was right here...

Ebon_Justice
Ebon_Justice's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 month 1 day ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 09/28/2013 - 13:17
Lin Chiao Feng wrote:
Lin Chiao Feng wrote:

ORLY? Then tell the tech team to make this work:
/bind capslock toggle_fonzie_walk

I'm SO hopeful they put in a like button with the forum upgrade ^_^

Cataract
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 5 months ago
kickstarter
Joined: 10/09/2013 - 21:25
I think simplicity is pretty

I think simplicity is pretty smart. If it were me, I would break the sets down into six categories like some other posters said. Their names should be a bit more obvious to what they do as well.

Cannon = Ranged Damage
Warrior = Melee Damage
Guardian = Support (Buff)
Disruptor = Sabotage (Control/Debuff)
Stalwart = Shields
Commander = Summons

I have seen the idea of splitting Buff/Debuff and combining the Debuff with Controls. I think in practice this ends up working well. Look at how Dark Miasma functioned in CoH. If a control did not take, it still served a purpose after all. I would take multiple Dark Miasma defenders any day! You could expand this to combine Ice Control/Cold Domination, Fire Control/Thermal Radiation, or Gravity Control/Kinetics as some examples.

After this choice is made we run into another issue. Each of these choices has THREE more options to pick from. Are you a Commander who is now a Ringleader? Are you a Bastion or a Bulwark (and is there a major difference between picking either of these two?)... It becomes quite confusing when talking about character progression to me.

So perhaps it would be wise to streamline the three choices? What if one option was to remain on your path? To stay a pure Cannon or Commander, and to remove assault and manipulation as choices? Almost every classification would receive manipulation according to the chart, so why the need to mention it and develop a whole other set of powers? Why not allow the Cannon to remain a cannon, and receive another layer of abilities (with some grab bag buffs thrown in)... The other nice thing is that by splitting buffs and debuffs you can create some interesting combinations!

Brand X
Brand X's picture
Offline
Last seen: 9 hours 23 min ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 11/01/2013 - 00:26
So if I read this right, it

So if I read this right, it won't be possible to make a Dual Pistol Wielding (Or Chain using if that gets made) Martial Artist who can mix Defenses between Reflexes and Regeneration?

Chance Jackson
Offline
Last seen: 1 month 2 days ago
kickstarter
Joined: 10/13/2013 - 19:10
1 eye archer wrote:
1 eye archer wrote:

Ok, before I ask, I had been a CoH player for over six years, but I never got into number crunching or a lot of the other terms. I just played what I enjoyed to play. My question is will there be opportunities for toons that have ranged attacks & melee attacks available equally? Like in the show "Arrow" where he can use his bow to shoot targets & bash 'em with it when close or use a pistol & hand to hand, skilled well in both.

Thus is very important to me too!

I'd love to mix up martial arts fighting and a few sword strikes/animations for flavor and add in ranged options like pistols/gunkata/gunfu, dagger throwing, energy ball/elemental blasting I believe the devs have the latter in mind(melee with your choice of range set with weaker values)but I hope they will be flexible enough to allow for weapon options/animations within otherwise hand to hand sets

Examples:
-Untrained street brawler pulling out a baseball bat, broken bottle, knife etc while fighting his enemy. Like Casey Jones from TMNT, The Song "A boy named Sue"

-Trained swordsmen/women mixing in well timed kicks and punches like DC's Wonderwoman, Marvel's Blade, DBZ's Future Trunks

Issue 0 CoH player barely let my subscription lapse before NC Soft called it quits; my incarnate gear *Sniff*
Global: Chance Jackson; Triumph: Liege Cheetatron X, Fight of Your Life, Down Right Fierce, Infernal Samurai, Time May Change Me etc

Zombie Man
Zombie Man's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 3 months ago
kickstarter
Joined: 07/26/2013 - 19:23
Brand X wrote:
Brand X wrote:

So if I read this right, it won't be possible to make a Dual Pistol Wielding (Or Chain using if that gets made) Martial Artist who can mix Defenses between Reflexes and Regeneration?

We'll see... too soon to know for sure either way.

Online Community Manager & Forum Moderator

Captain Titan
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 1 month ago
kickstarter
Joined: 11/04/2013 - 11:32
ok i know this might seem

ok i know this might seem Strange, It might eeven be in the wrong place, But will i be able to make the Avatar? 9 like in The Legend of korra )With Wind an Fire an earth An Water?
Crossing fingers an toes in hope that i can lol , An dev's you guys an gal's Rock, keep u the Great work

Comicsluvr
Comicsluvr's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 6 months ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 09/07/2013 - 03:39
JayBezz wrote:
JayBezz wrote:

You go through the tutorial that lets you experience all 6 playstyles and upon completion you choose (Some people don't know they love playing "mez characters" because they never tried it) Based on the track you complete in the tutorial your role is presented to you in symbol form that shows up next to your UI Avatar
I'm just saying there are better ways to show this data without being needlessly confusing

WOW. I really like this idea!

I remember when Star Wars was cool...a long, long time ago...

Cymmetri
Offline
Last seen: 3 years 8 months ago
kickstarter
Joined: 10/08/2013 - 19:56
Captain Titan wrote:
Captain Titan wrote:

ok i know this might seem Strange, It might eeven be in the wrong place, But will i be able to make the Avatar? 9 like in The Legend of korra )With Wind an Fire an earth An Water?
Crossing fingers an toes in hope that i can lol , An dev's you guys an gal's Rock, keep u the Great work

I made an Elemental: Earth Control/Storm Summoning Controller with Fire Mastery.

Oh lord...will we even have Ancillary Pools? :(

The plastic tips on the ends of shoelaces are called Aglets; their true purpose is sinister.

LeadWanderer
LeadWanderer's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 month 1 week ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/13/2013 - 22:41
I think we should have more

I think we should have more freedom in this, make pools of elemental, or martial, or defensive powers, even support and other things, beyond the generic medicine and such, that way we can splash in things, and if we don't want to take a 'useless' power to our build or just our opinion, we can pick something else.

"When all the world is dark, look for me, I'll be your light."

Follow me @SequentialRTim

Read Bleeding Edges!

Lin Chiao Feng
Lin Chiao Feng's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 22 hours ago
Developerkickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 11/02/2013 - 09:27
Cymmetri wrote:
Cymmetri wrote:

Oh lord...will we even have Ancillary Pools? :(

The current plans seem to have them, as kind of "tertiary" sets.

Has anyone seen my mind? It was right here...

JayBezz
JayBezz's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 month 1 week ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/08/2013 - 14:54
Hey ZombieMan,

Hey ZombieMan,

I really like most of what i'm seeing as far as classification and specification. But What What If I want to be a Control with .. more Control. I dont want to buff, I don't want to do damage.. I want a plethora of amazing debuffs and don't care to do ANY damage .. Will I be forced to take Support or Offense?

Same question as a Healer.. do I have to take a damage power or can I focus simply on team buffs?

I guess what i'm saying is.. the specification.. I am the kind of player who does not need it. It's a part of what made CoX diverse.. but your chart seems to leave us "Trinity" players out

Crowd Control Enthusiast

Zombie Man
Zombie Man's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 3 months ago
kickstarter
Joined: 07/26/2013 - 19:23
JayBezz wrote:
JayBezz wrote:

Hey ZombieMan,
I really like most of what i'm seeing as far as classification and specification. But What What If I want to be a Control with .. more Control. I dont want to buff, I don't want to do damage.. I want a plethora of amazing debuffs and don't care to do ANY damage .. Will I be forced to take Support or Offense?
Same question as a Healer.. do I have to take a damage power or can I focus simply on team buffs?
I guess what i'm saying is.. the specification.. I am the kind of player who does not need it. It's a part of what made CoX diverse.. but your chart seems to leave us "Trinity" players out

All issues not determined yet. Sorry! :(

Online Community Manager & Forum Moderator

cybermitheral
cybermitheral's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 18 hours ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 08/21/2013 - 20:54
@JayBezz - just take Control

@JayBezz - just take Control/Support but a Debuff set :)

The Phoenix Rising Initiative Rules Lawyer

Brand X
Brand X's picture
Offline
Last seen: 9 hours 23 min ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 11/01/2013 - 00:26
Just noticed but no Defense

Just noticed but no Defense/Range or Assault/Defense spec :/ When I would think Assault/Defense would be one of the most comic book style of specs for at least the elemental style heroes/villains.

cybermitheral
cybermitheral's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 18 hours ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 08/21/2013 - 20:54
I can understand no Def

I can understand no Def/Ranged at launch as this can lead to the TankMage which most people agree is Overpowered.
Meanwhile as a Range/Def you are still more squishy than a Def/ character so there is some balance.
As always testing may show that Range/Def may be too strong (compared to Melee/Def) so the values will need to be further lowered. Or maybe not :)

Assault/Def "could" be on the drawing board to be released at some time post-launch.

We cant have everything straight away... :(

The Phoenix Rising Initiative Rules Lawyer

JayBezz
JayBezz's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 month 1 week ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/08/2013 - 14:54
I don't want to buff/support

I don't want to buff/support my team. I want to be a pure debuffer. Any enemy around me should consider themselves lobotomized. But I do NOT have the power to buff anyone.. not their health, not their energy, not their damage, not their movement speed.. Buffing is for helpers. I don't help. I neutralize.

Crowd Control Enthusiast

cybermitheral
cybermitheral's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 18 hours ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 08/21/2013 - 20:54
Then debuff their health with

Then debuff their health with a few Ranged attacks :)

The Phoenix Rising Initiative Rules Lawyer

JayBezz
JayBezz's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 month 1 week ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/08/2013 - 14:54
cybermitheral wrote:
cybermitheral wrote:

Then debuff their health with a few Ranged attacks :)

HAHA. No thank you. I wouldn't mind a tiny DoT if you FORCE all builds to be solo able. But that's not what my character does…

I understand trees will offer damage attacks.. I just want there to be enough control-only powers so I don't have to do damage or buff/heal anybody.

I understand SOME people don't want a "trinity player" but I do want to be a debugger. I don't want you to take away the ability to be a pure healer or pure debuffer just because some people want a hybrid role (Control/Ranged DPS, Control/Support).

"We don't want to be forced to be trinity" is not the same as "We don't want any dedicated role builds to exist"

Crowd Control Enthusiast

cybermitheral
cybermitheral's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 18 hours ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 08/21/2013 - 20:54
Debuff = Primary

Debuff = Primary
Ranged DPS = Secondary (only take the bare minimum number of attacks)
Other Debuff/Buff from Tertiary.

The Phoenix Rising Initiative Rules Lawyer

JayBezz
JayBezz's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 month 1 week ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/08/2013 - 14:54
But I don't want Ranged

But I don't want Ranged Damage.

I understand your solution to my problem, I simply do not find it satisfactory. If a "starter attack" is a game mechanic used I can accept it.. but that is the last time I want to be forced into any game mechanic outside of debuffs/crowd control

While this game is in the planning phase I hope to express my desires now. In fact I have a friend who wants to be an intangible tank.. he's expressed a similar desire but unlike me he has accepted that building a Super-Tank with passive/defensive abilities is not possible.

There are those of us who want to focus on one mechanic that is not damage.

Threat/Survival over Time, Mez over Time, Heals over Time.. all of these non-damage mechanics could be independently expressed from damage over time.

If Mez/Heal is an option then it appears that damage can be removed from the equation .. so instead of forcing me to use my non-damage abilities (I know CoH put damage into Mez.. something else I hope to avoid but that's a separate mechanic) on buffs/support I would love to have more abilities of Mez/Debuffs

I don't really see my desired to take anything away from the goals the devs have expressed. In fact I think it provides an overlooked option for players like myself.

Crowd Control Enthusiast

cybermitheral
cybermitheral's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 18 hours ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 08/21/2013 - 20:54
It could be that later down

It could be that later down the track a lot of the current blank or '------' Pri/Sec combinations could be added to.

A 'possible' problem with a Single Focus (ie: buff/buff/buff) character is they cant solo. Ever. And while this is not a 100% BAD THING it does mean for people who dont know what they are doing (ie: new players) can get stuck and have to abandon their first character. Experienced players of MMO's (like yourself) wont have the same problem (well shouldnt :)) and even if you do you are more than willing to burn that character and make a new one from scratch with different powers without getting upset (I used the word upset to avoid swearing).

Another option could be the Controller? Control/Support(Debuff). If you dont want to take any HARD Controls (using CoH speak here) then take the Immobs, slows, etcs. They are in effect Debuffs.
Maybe down the track you can select Support/Control as well?

The Phoenix Rising Initiative Rules Lawyer

JayBezz
JayBezz's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 month 1 week ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/08/2013 - 14:54
cybermitheral wrote:
cybermitheral wrote:

A 'possible' problem with a Single Focus (ie: buff/buff/buff) character is they cant solo.

How is that different from Control/Support?

And yes new players will have to learn.. but many new players don't want to solo any more than I do.

Crowd Control Enthusiast

cybermitheral
cybermitheral's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 18 hours ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 08/21/2013 - 20:54
Control does have SOME damage

Control does have SOME damage (however limited it may be). Also Control can LOCK DOWN targets completely whereas Support normally doesnt.
BUT I do understand your point. Control/Support is basically the same in that it is heavily Team Oriented (while you COULD solo it would be a massive GRIND).

Im not really against (personally) a character with Debuff/Debuff as their Pri and Secondary, or Buff/Buff. I was mainly trying to find a compromise with what is currently planned for CoT.
However I would rather they focus on the options that allow both Solo and Team play for launch and work out the details for things like (De)Buff/(De)Buff later.

Also I dont think Def/Def would be allowed as this can be gamed to the point where the character has hit the ceiling on Def/Res and Regen (maybe even with added Absorb/Protection) and never be able to drop Aggro. At that point the character can almost never die and the other teammates can also never die for the MAJORITY of content (I had to put majority in caps so I dont get misquoted later on :)).

I think playing a (De)Buff/De(Buff) character could be fun on a team.
Force Fields for all my minions (I mean teammates). Clouded vision to all my foes = Mwahahahahaha

The Phoenix Rising Initiative Rules Lawyer

Zombie Man
Zombie Man's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 3 months ago
kickstarter
Joined: 07/26/2013 - 19:23
JayBezz wrote:
JayBezz wrote:

How is that different from Control/Support?

Yes, indeed. When I first saw the classification schema and put it into my tidy chart, I saw that that was the odd man out. Every other specification had an attack set and a mitigation set (with Assault and Manipulation being a mix of the two). But not so the Commander (Controller).

It is my guess that the ones who came up with the schema put the Commander there so that CoT would have an analogue of CoH's Controller. But, I'll be making the case that it is indeed the odd man out and most likely should not exist. Otherwise we'll have to create Control and Support powersets that do significant damage which can't be cleanly shared (proliferated) with the other specifications.

It would be better (less work, more done) for the Commander to be moved to Control/Manipulation. And then use Tertiaries to specialize in controls/debuffs so as to replicate a Controller, if one wants.

Remember the tuna sandwich wrapper rule!

Online Community Manager & Forum Moderator

Brand X
Brand X's picture
Offline
Last seen: 9 hours 23 min ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 11/01/2013 - 00:26
cybermitheral wrote:
cybermitheral wrote:

Control does have SOME damage (however limited it may be). Also Control can LOCK DOWN targets completely whereas Support normally doesnt.
BUT I do understand your point. Control/Support is basically the same in that it is heavily Team Oriented (while you COULD solo it would be a massive GRIND).
Im not really against (personally) a character with Debuff/Debuff as their Pri and Secondary, or Buff/Buff. I was mainly trying to find a compromise with what is currently planned for CoT.
However I would rather they focus on the options that allow both Solo and Team play for launch and work out the details for things like (De)Buff/(De)Buff later.
Also I dont think Def/Def would be allowed as this can be gamed to the point where the character has hit the ceiling on Def/Res and Regen (maybe even with added Absorb/Protection) and never be able to drop Aggro. At that point the character can almost never die and the other teammates can also never die for the MAJORITY of content (I had to put majority in caps so I dont get misquoted later on :)).
I think playing a (De)Buff/De(Buff) character could be fun on a team.
Force Fields for all my minions (I mean teammates). Clouded vision to all my foes = Mwahahahahaha

Wrong.

Control/Support had some damage in CoH. We have no idea what CoT will give us with Control/Support :p

cybermitheral
cybermitheral's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 18 hours ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 08/21/2013 - 20:54
@Brand X

@Brand X
Touche` - but then again no-one knows anything about how the sets/Class/Specs will work with CoT at this stage.
Assault could be changed to the name of Ranged Damage.
Tanking could all be done via control-like powers (please oh god please no)
etc

I should always prefix my comments with "based on the assumption of mechanics similar to CoH for comparison purposes" :)

The Phoenix Rising Initiative Rules Lawyer

Brand X
Brand X's picture
Offline
Last seen: 9 hours 23 min ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 11/01/2013 - 00:26
cybermitheral wrote:
cybermitheral wrote:

@Brand X
Touche` - but then again no-one knows anything about how the sets/Class/Specs will work with CoT at this stage.
Assault could be changed to the name of Ranged Damage.
Tanking could all be done via control-like powers (please oh god please no)
etc
I should always prefix my comments with "based on the assumption of mechanics similar to CoH for comparison purposes" :)

Just think it's good to remind CoHers that CoT is not CoH. I think many CoHers want to imagine CoT will be exactly like CoH will a couple of tweaks, when from two years from now, it can be totally different.

CoT Devs have so much going for them and so many MMOs to look at and go..."Hmmm..." over.

cybermitheral
cybermitheral's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 18 hours ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 08/21/2013 - 20:54
Agree'd - while I love (yes

Agree'd - while I love (yes still) CoH it did have its flaws and even the things it did well could potentially be done better.
However when discussing how CoT will/could be different to CoH (because CoT is a spiritual successor) we are using CoH as a reference point.
It could be that CoH wont have any He4l0rz at all - rather a lot of Green Baubles and a self-heal power for all characters on a long timer.

Its the ~718 days until the game is launched that is killing me. Not that we are counting or anything Devs.....

The Phoenix Rising Initiative Rules Lawyer

Brand X
Brand X's picture
Offline
Last seen: 9 hours 23 min ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 11/01/2013 - 00:26
I go back to "What is a

I go back to "What is a spiritual successor"? To me, all that takes is a superhero mmo, pleasing aesthetics and a good community. I do hope for some things like CoH though. I did prefer how CoH worked attacks and I built for recharge to get a good chain, instead of CO where I can get by with just one ST attack and one AOE attack.

JayBezz
JayBezz's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 month 1 week ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/08/2013 - 14:54
Again.. I state my intentions

Again.. I state my intentions because I know that the game is so far off and the combat mechanics are still being discussed.

I do expect there to be a cap on things.. but as I said.. my friend wants to play as a being tethered from an alternate universe.. some say "Ghost" but he wants the ability to taunt/pull aggro for the team and fully understands his other mechanics will fail.. but being an attention seeking apparition is his concept

Crowd Control Enthusiast

JayBezz
JayBezz's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 month 1 week ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/08/2013 - 14:54
Zombie Man wrote:
Zombie Man wrote:

JayBezz wrote:
How is that different from Control/Support?

I think I see what you're trying for there you clever man.. but I am specifically addressing the "they can't solo" aspect .. the two are extremely different. Debuff/Debuff is not the same as Debuff/Buff

Crowd Control Enthusiast

Cymmetri
Offline
Last seen: 3 years 8 months ago
kickstarter
Joined: 10/08/2013 - 19:56
Brand X wrote:
Brand X wrote:

cybermitheral wrote:
@Brand X
Touche` - but then again no-one knows anything about how the sets/Class/Specs will work with CoT at this stage.
Assault could be changed to the name of Ranged Damage.
Tanking could all be done via control-like powers (please oh god please no)
etc
I should always prefix my comments with "based on the assumption of mechanics similar to CoH for comparison purposes" :)

Just think it's good to remind CoHers that CoT is not CoH. I think many CoHers want to imagine CoT will be exactly like CoH will a couple of tweaks, when from two years from now, it can be totally different.
CoT Devs have so much going for them and so many MMOs to look at and go..."Hmmm..." over.

Controllers were hard to solo, but could. It got a lot easier once you got the tier 9 pet.

Granted, I suspect the pet(s) might not be in the cards for CoT's Controls (however, the starting cap is 30 and tier 9's didn't appear until lvl 32 in CoH--assuming a similar power progression).

The plastic tips on the ends of shoelaces are called Aglets; their true purpose is sinister.

Brand X
Brand X's picture
Offline
Last seen: 9 hours 23 min ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 11/01/2013 - 00:26
I know. Had more than one 50

I know. Had more than one 50 of the trollers :p

Gangrel
Offline
Last seen: 7 months 1 week ago
11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 09/15/2013 - 15:14
Brand X wrote:
Brand X wrote:

I know. Had more than one 50 of the trollers :p

It was annoying to say the least,especially early on in the games life, when you were limited to TO's and DO's. SO's helped a lot, but the pets were IMHO the crux of them. The earlier you got pets, the better in my opinion.

Quote:

1) I reject your reality.... and substitute my own
2) Not to be used when upset... will void warranty
3) Stoke me a clipper i will be back for dinner
4) I have seen more intelligence from an NPC AI in TR beta, than from most MMO players.

Redlynne
Redlynne's picture
Offline
Last seen: 15 hours 17 min ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/28/2013 - 21:15
Speaking as a Mind Controller

Speaking as a Mind Controller, the problem wasn't getting to 32 (which in my case was Mass Comedy ... but rather getting into the teens and being able to either buy DOs or craft IOs and having enough Enhancement Slots to start to be able to *do things* with your control powers. Mind Control started becoming "pretty solid" in terms of lockdown as early as Level 6, thanks to Confuse.


Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.
Cataract
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 5 months ago
kickstarter
Joined: 10/09/2013 - 21:25
Hopefully this does not sound

Hopefully this does not sound completely uninformed, but would Manipulation and Assault be refined in City of Titans. The reason I ask is because in City of Heroes, it always seemed to me, that Manipulation and Assault were underpowered. Originally, they were designed with the primary power sets in mind, and therefore balanced around this. Proliferating them into other types of classes, without a major revamp of what they are, seems pointless then. If I were making the choice as a Ranged character between the secondaries of Manipulation, Shields, or Support, Manipulation would be my last choice. At this point I wonder why should it be included? Conceptually I could accomplish whatever I was going for in Manipulation with either two others (Ice Armor or Cold Domination) and Ice Manipulation seems like a silly choice. I know that they are not the same games, but Manipulation would need to be something completely different from what it was in CoH to even be considered. The same thing goes for Assault. I would rather be Ranged OR Melee in most character concepts. If my Character needed both (Dual Pistols/Martial Arts as an example), then why can't Ranged/Melee be an option?

I guess my question is, are we including powersets for the sake of being like City of Heroes? Can we still be a spiritual successor while dropping some of the fat off of the design of our inspiration?

Happily Married
Offline
Last seen: 3 years 10 months ago
Joined: 12/27/2013 - 08:54
Sailboat wrote:
Sailboat wrote:

Subjectivity wrote:
tank is such a generic term! Can we really not use it?
I always thought "Anvil" was a better descriptor of how MMORPG "Tanks" are usually played. Military strategists would tell us "tanks" are offensive weapons, best employed using speed and mobility.

What about MEATSHIELD?

Marriage is work. Anyone tells you otherwise is selling something.

Foradain
Foradain's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 hours 36 min ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/25/2013 - 21:06
Happily Married wrote:
Happily Married wrote:

Sailboat wrote:
Subjectivity wrote:
tank is such a generic term! Can we really not use it?

I always thought "Anvil" was a better descriptor of how MMORPG "Tanks" are usually played. Military strategists would tell us "tanks" are offensive weapons, best employed using speed and mobility.

What about MEATSHIELD?

While I approve of MeatShield as a name for an agg magnet, Mr. Chambers may object. Or he might not ^_^

Foradain, Mage of Phoenix Rising.
Foradain's Character Conclave
Avatar courtesy of Satellite Nine.
If you can't see an image I've posted, please let me know!

Pages