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My argument is along the lines that MWM was already planning to soldier on without ever having direct access to CoH's IP. With that simple fact in mind you can easily conclude that it wasn't (and still isn't) strictly necessary to have that access and it's probably worth looking at NCsoft's "gift horse" in the mouth first before we blindly accept what's being offered here.
At first blush it may seem like it'd be a "good idea" for MWM to make use of any direct legal access to CoH's official data/code/lore. But every bite of that apple we take sinks us more into a permanent, tied-to-the-hip entanglement with whatever licensing agreement we'd have to make with this "holding company". That's simply both undesirable AND unnecessary for CoT's long term success.
Also I will again raise strong doubts that anything that is unique to CoH's IP would be critically valuable to MWM in terms of significantly reducing development time. Third party sound and graphics libraries are easily available to MWM without having to pry them from the cold, dead corpse of CoH. And based on how far software technology has evolved in the virtual eternity of time since CoH was designed I could easily surmise that practically nothing could be salvaged from CoH that wouldn't likely take longer to port/reengineer than it would simply to be designed cleanly using modern tools/practices. Clean slates are almost always preferable to decades-old tangles of spaghetti code.
Bottomline let's take a cue from what Paragon Studios itself did to Statesman - if he wasn't valuable enough to the overall IP to avoid being "erased" from the CoH universe is there really anything else from CoH that CoT needs to "borrow" in order to be a good game that can stand on its own?
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
Lothic, your points are all consistent. But whether acquiring IP speeds up the development of COT, or not as you have concluded, is something we would all benefit from hearing from the COT devs. Personally I'd be surprised if nothing could be gained in terms of release schedule. But I've been wrong before. It may take a while before the devs know. It may never happen at all. In the meantime, as you say, the team soldiers on.
One thing is for sure. For all of us to feel so passionately negative about a tie to NCSoft reinforces how poorly they handled the closure of COH. But I prefer to think of the licensing of IP as a tie to COH, and not to NCSoft. The glass is, for me, half full.
I'm with Lothic and Darth Fez on this: I simply see no need for CoT to have any links to the CoX universe and actually consider such ties to be a sort of straitjacket clipping the Phoenix's wings (to shamefully mix metaphors). I don't want to encounter old enemy groups from CoX; I had over 7 years' worth of those. Give me something new.
Spurn all ye kindle.
No one is saying it is necessary...but it might be cost or time efficient. In the time CoH was around it had a large amount of quality resources in the game. And many of those resources are not tied to the code that made the game run. Let me try and say what I mean another way.
The resources that would save time and effort would be along the lines of texture, bmp, sound, ect.....not the core code.....the files the code accesses. A jpeg file is not the code but the file it accesses.
Having access to a huge library of textures for roads of any kind, walls of any kind, trees of any kind, ect would save the modelers a lot of time. Texture files like this would not need a lot of tweaking (in the grand scheme) to make work with the 3d model program they are using (Maya from what I understand). The same can be said for sound files or any other resource that is accessed by the code. Having an all in one library that is already tailored to the genre would be a huge asset even if some of it required more work than others to make it fit.
I share your concerns about the leasing of the IP but think that any such deal will take those concerns into considerations so do not feel the same sense of dread. I trust the MWM staff to do what will best serve the game as they are largely like us....want it to succeed.
Ah, I see what you mean. Guess it will take the devs to tell us whether it's feasible to import old CoX resources into UE4. I certainly don't know enough to be able to say whether this is truly a time-saver, but if it is I can see how it might be useful. If so I'd still prefer it to be basic elements such as walls and trees (as you mention) and not, for example, recreating the Celestial Armour set.
Spurn all ye kindle.
There are no plans to incorporate any lore which did not come from our writers. Any licensing being considered is of assets which we would be looking to find sources to license anyways. (Sound libraries, textures, etc)
Technical Director
Read enough Facebook and you have to make Sanity Checks. I guess FB is the Great Old One of the interent these days... - Beamrider
I have no qualms regarding MWM's ability to arrange a fair deal and make efficient use of any assets licensed in perpetuity from - what may be, based on limited information - a community-controlled holding company. Especially in the costume department, CoH had some interesting pieces and patterns that I'd like to see ported over, graphically enhanced, and made more customizable via the character model info shown in the recent update.
The relief from risk of lawsuits that it can provide is also worth having - not only from NCSoft's direction, but from PWE/Marvel/DC. It's an extra layer of protection for CoT's in-game art when we can point to CoH's large legal library of inspiration for it, and not rely purely on an independent creation defense. Having the license can make CoT look like an unpleasantly tough target, and that's sometimes the best defense of all - avoiding a suit entirely.
I'd be willing to chip in some money to that IP license fundraiser proposed by Consultant, and that seems like a fair way so anyone can avoid even indirectly paying NCSoft, if they prefer.
I'll be completely honest, I don't have enough money to play 2 mmos and loyaly to a company means little to me. I'll play the game that I think is better. I know what CoH is like and I know some things about it that I don't really like. I'm more than interested in a new game and will give this one a chance hoping it's a better game. Even If it doesn't live up to my expectations, I'll already be in, and will stick with it for a minimum of a year. After that I would only switch if this game was a serious disapointment, or CoH was making big and exciting changes.
If it comes down to a hard choice because both games look really good. You can give yourself a major edge in the competition by allowing Nunchaku. I would be willing to Pay More for a vastly Inferior game, if it included nunchaku and it's competition didn't.
http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/browse/pub/3185/Crusader-Game-Books
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC48O9dPcNVdeyNM4efAvX6w/videos?view_as=subscriber
We don't know how a hypothetical City of Heroes will be priced, but they've stated you can play City of Titans after buying it, even when your subscription isn't active. If that continues to be the case, would you continue to play it even if you end up preferring City of Heroes? (If you could continue to play even after the subscription runs out. Of course, we don't know exactly what that means yet, or if it'll still be around a full year after the game's release.)
Longtime City of Heroes player, longtime writer. :) Working in Nebraska.
COT: Mission tips writer, studying Cinema 4D animation program
How interesting.....
HardRider - Stone/Invul Brute since Issue 6 - Now gone.... Shall be REBORN! For you can never keep a sadistical villain down for good!
Yes that would certainly keep me playing.
I also just read on another of the forums about offline play which sounds very appealing.
One of the things I grew to hate in the last few years about CoH was how they kept creating content that required teams, (Even giant teams) as if people who prefer to play solo just weren't worth their time. This game is really sounding like it's going to be good.
But nunchaku would absolutely make me yours for life.
http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/browse/pub/3185/Crusader-Game-Books
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC48O9dPcNVdeyNM4efAvX6w/videos?view_as=subscriber
Perhaps Nate heard (maybe someone informed him) that NCSoft would Sue MWM (maybe all the other CoH/V spiritual successors), irregardless weather there was any legal precedence. NCSoft would use legal fees to bankrupt the spiritual successor efforts. Soooo, Nate and a few others try and find a way to buy off NCSoft and protect themselves from legal costs, which might turn out to be more that buying off NCSoft.
Its nothing to do with the Lore, the Outdated Costumes textures, or anything of the sort... thats just there to make it seeeeeem like the Pay Off is for REAL goods. ;)
Wait... Doesnt the Mafia, Triads, and a slew of other organizations, make people the same deals?
I'm probably reaching a bit, but thats the Only Thing that makes sense to me. :/
If it turned out to be the case, why not inform the players and Ask if they would rather raise funds later for Legal Fees if MWM wound up in court?.. Than live in FEAR of legal fees bankrupting MWM? :/
I'm a pleasant fella, but when I'm threatened, I play a bit dirty. I'm the kinda fella that would threaten NCSoft with hiring a known controversial Director to make a documentary of the legal affairs and NCSoft dealings spanning back years to present court battles with MWM (or other spiritual successors) and make sure to portray them in a not so pleasant light. And Advertise the Documentary throughout the gaming communities with AD's and secretly start a volunteer effort to post in forums/tweet/facebook/youtube/..and any and all means.
I'm Very spiteful when threatened. >:)
Wow....Im sorry but that's way too conspiracy theory for me.
Its much more likely exactly as Tyche said it was. Resources they would have to get anyway.
What does it sound like when you ask a Lawyer , as a company...what do i need to look out for to stay safe?
Doesnt his response sound a bit MUCH!?
Hmm... Sound FX is just about the ONLY thing CoT might need. Its Damn shame we dont have a Sound FX person on MWM's team yet. :/
I like what Doctor Tyche is looking at. A completely new world, but just with subtle hints of "where we came from." I.E. the same private tell alert sound, the infamous 'BOOM' of a rock power, similar texturing on a key enemy reminiscent of something else, etc.
Subtle nods to the inspirational material, without worrying about any law hounds breathing down MWM's neck. That is all the worth I see from this news.
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[size=15][b][i]A cold front is heading toward Titan City[/i][/b][/size]
Ice Man of [url=http://cityoftitans.com/forum/phoenix-rising-initiative-0]The Phoenix Rising Initiative[/url]
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I have no doubt in my mind that ncsoft has looked at the legal ramifications of all the spiritual successors and if they have cause for legal action. That's business. What I don't agree with (and what sounds too far fetched for me) is ncsoft as the video game mafia extorting MWM. Pay us or we will sue. Even if they did why would no one say anything. What is ncsoft gonna send thumb breakers. Rumors like this only hurt everyone.
From Irish_Girl on the CoHTitan forums:
I wanted to bring this up because I had been under the impression that taking things out of CoH and dropping them into CoT would most likely be neither quick nor easy. On the other hand, if the deal happens and APR and MWM want to share assets... Of course, by that point this may all be a non-issue, anyway.
Irish Girl is the person behind the APR (Atlas Park Revival) project, which is essentially her effort to rebuild CoH in UE4.
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[font=Pristina][size=18][b]Hail Beard![/b][/size][/font]
Support [url=http://cityoftitans.com/comment/52149#comment-52149]trap clowns[/url] for CoT!
Pardon the double post, but a separate thought:
Will the avatar builder be considered a standalone product or will it be considered to be a part of the CoT engine?
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[font=Pristina][size=18][b]Hail Beard![/b][/size][/font]
Support [url=http://cityoftitans.com/comment/52149#comment-52149]trap clowns[/url] for CoT!
Yes.
Technical Director
Read enough Facebook and you have to make Sanity Checks. I guess FB is the Great Old One of the interent these days... - Beamrider
This is very hard to comment on. I have not been following APR so do not know exactly what the project is.
A link to the thread or post this was made would help (just to see it in context of the larger conversation).
If she is saying what I think then I would worry about an MMO with graphics so advanced that players will experience framerate issues even on lower settings unless they have a powerhouse rig (ala Crysis on release date).
For what it's worth I don't seriously think representatives of NCsoft have literally used "strong arm" Mafioso-styled tactics or have directly told people like MWM "if you don't pay us we will sue you" in so many words.
But you'll have to admit we are witnessing the unfolding of an unprecedented scenario in the world of MMO gaming. How many times has an established MMO been shutdown (under somewhat questionable circumstances) only to have various groups of fans of that game mount serious efforts to recreate it and then have to deal with the original company who still holds the rights to the original game? Based on the very unique nature of this situation I think it's at least reasonable to keep an open mind to the wide spectrum of possible outcomes.
I don't really consider it extreme rumor-mongering to suggest that NCsoft may have a less than altruistic motivation for offering any "support" to the spiritual successors and may in fact simply see this as a novel means to make as much money off an otherwise dead IP at our expense. As you say it may just be "business" to them so if even the tacit hint of possible lawsuits makes companies like MWM offer up more in a deal than NCsoft deserves I doubt NCsoft would be too upset by that.
Balancing a game so that the vast majority of players can play it satisfactorily on "average" machines is always a challenge. But you have to remember it's going to be maybe another 1.5 or 2 years before this game has officially launched so what will be considered an "average" machine in 2016 is likely going to be a bit faster/better/cheaper than what that general benchmark is today.
Besides it has been advertised that UE4 is supposed to support "lower end" machines better than previous game engines so the expectation is that people who don't have bleeding-edge machines would have fewer problems than with other games in the past. I suppose we'll see if that claim bears out or not.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
Very well said. I would like to add that the hint of lawsuits have been there from the beginning though so this recent (but not really recent) news of trying to gain IP from NCsoft is not part of the hints of lawsuits. If anything I would think that NCsoft is considering the deal more now because of the unique situation and realized they are fast losing the opportunity to make some money here.
This is true, but with my example of Crysis. It too had a development cycle. There is a possibility to limit your audience even considering the future. But as I said I have no idea what Irish Girls actual intentions are so could only speak to the way the out of context quote sounded to me.
Again this is true. From the (very) little I have looked at, it seems to be a fantastic engine.
I only replied what I did because the quote sounded like APRs graphics goals were to hit the ceiling which does not sound like a good idea to me. Especially in an MMO where the goal is to get as many players as possible.
I only have the information before me and from the looks of things CoT is not going for the maximum graphics possible approach just by the fact that it has been said they will need libraries of resources and that CoHs was a possibility. Heck my assumption of graphics might even be further off because MWM may not even be interested in the textures at all and only interested in sound files...or maybe no files at all but to safeguard so they can rebuild costume designs. I am only speculating on what MWMs interest in this is....if they have any true interest at all. We also don't know what deal might be made...it could be a 5 dollar and a cup of coffee and MWM gets access to the IP in perpetuity deal. In other words if the deal is so good that it would be foolish to pass then....well it would be foolish to pass.
In essence my opinion stands...I trust MWM knows what they are doing as they have pretty much the same desires we do.
Sorry if I'm being obtuse and not recognising that you're being cleverly evasive here, but yes to which of the two options?
Spurn all ye kindle.
Hint; it's both.
[hr]I don't use a nerf bat, I have a magic crowbar!
- Combat Mechanic -
[color=#ff0000]Tech Team. [/color]
CoH was the first mmo and online game that I ever played. The longer I played the game the more impressed I became with the ingenuity and pure mad genius of the CoH's best players, from their alts that could take on AVs and GMs solo and win, to their jaw-dropping base designs.
I learned how to be a better player whenever I got a chance to team-up with these titans among heroes, and they made CoH more fun to play. I believe that many of those best players are among the ranks of MWM and the other Plan Z projects, and, although I firmly support CoT, I really would love to see what they could do with CoH.
Wow...I go away for a few days and LOOK what happens!
I will not play CoH again in any iteration. My time is valuable enough to me that one superhero MMO is enough if it's good. My money is (literally) on CoT.
If CoT can gain legal protection from lawsuit (and yes, it's basically extortion because the big kid CAN afford the legal fees and the little one can't) as well as some assets (common sounds and images) to speed/improve CoT then I'm ok with that. However those ties should be severed asap in my mind.
CoT should be its own entity, beholden to no one but the players and Devs who created it. I do NOT want to log into CoT and find Hellions running around the city. It would feel like we'd given in and admitted that we couldn't do it alone.
I remember when Star Wars was cool...a long, long time ago...
My understanding of the announcement is that that is all MWM wants out of the deal. Unfortunately, there's way too much irresponsible pseudo-journalism manufacturing myths wholecloth out of this. In the past few days, I've read articles claiming that production of CoT will cease in favor of relaunching CoX, that the goal of the deal is to name CoT the "official sequel" to CoX, or that MWM will cannibalize code from CoX to finish production on CoT...none of which was even implied by Downes' statement. I just hope this ridiculous spewing of misinformation-as-fact doesn't harm the negotiations, or the general public's view of the game.
Would I go back if CoX gets a jumpstart? I have to say yes, there are whole zones I never spent much time in because I tended to work each character towards the rewards I already knew about. Would I stay with it? Well no, there would never be new content, my beloved characters are gone, and it probably won't play on Win8 and beyond. I definitely want to move forward into the future when CoT goes beta, but that's a whole different world and I still miss the old one.
How much time I, personally, would spend in a reawakened CoX depends on a number of things; like how they are going to handle the unlockables like veterans rewards and even items in the store. One has to realize that CoX would be on borrowed time, so Veterans rewards could take years to accumulate - years the game does not have. In addition, that ticking clock would dissuade me from re-purchasing things in the store. So - what do the CoX i23 caretakers do? Unlock everything? (that's probably the best route, actually)
Of course - this is further complicated by the plans for APR / CoH 1.5 - how do they plan on handling such things? Would the accounts be able to transfer over to the newer game? Would we have to start over (again)? Or would we get everything available up to issue 23 and then go from there?
Obviously these questions cannot be answered right now, and even if they were things are likely to change. Will be interesting to see where things progress in the coming year.
I'm thinking that this would be an opportunity. It's not COT or COX - it's COT Plus COX. The IP may be available to enrich the timeline, terms, backstories or whatever. I loved the City of Heroes, I'd love to see it's history incorporated in the new world. The IP can be just the names and backstory, that could truly enrich the entire world. If COH exists as a game I'd play but it isn't the future - COT will be that, but if they didn't have to forget the old city, I think that'd be better.
I like this because--ok, Paragon was one city on the planet, but what was going on everywhere else? There was nothing saying that Paragon was the ONLY city of heroes on the planet. Why couldn't Titan City have been another Mecca of heroes in the same continuum--like Gotham and Metropolis?
Of course that may not be possible or ever happen depending on how things work out with the whole deal, but Titan City existing in the same "Universe" as Paragon does make me happy to think of. Though, as Abbey says, Titan City is the future.
FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)
They can remember and honor the 'old world' without using it's IP.
They're better off not using the old IP in their history. What do you propose they do if they lose the rights to use it years down the line if it is integrated into their history?
They've also stated they aren't planning to mix someone else's history with their own.
And they're better off for not doing so.
That said- if, two or three years into the game, they decide to make use of City of Heroes lore in a way that could easily be removed from the game without being missed, that might be interesting. But for now, I think we are best off encouraging them to build their OWN lore, not lean on a paper tissue tower.
Longtime City of Heroes player, longtime writer. :) Working in Nebraska.
COT: Mission tips writer, studying Cinema 4D animation program
At this point it is not about losing access / rights to the IP.
At this point MWM has to assume that they will never obtain the rights to use the IP. If MWM included CoH assets in CoT and the deal with NCSoft falls through, it would probably mean months of additional work to remove and replace any such lore and art (and possibly mechanics).
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[font=Pristina][size=18][b]Hail Beard![/b][/size][/font]
Support [url=http://cityoftitans.com/comment/52149#comment-52149]trap clowns[/url] for CoT!
That's true that they don't have rights to use the IP in the first place as of now.
I would assume they wouldn't start writing in lore until they had rights to it, but that's a fair point.
I think it would hurt them even if they do get rights to the City of Heroes lore and never lose it. They're already building a new world. This isn't like deciding several years after release to use an older group (since they own rights to use it) in a mission or two. They're building the core world and game - the best thing they could do at this point would be to keep it as original as possible. I think the quality of the fiction will benefit a lot more from the writers developing their own ideas and style, not focus on someone else's seat.
In other words, I think they need to allow the game world to first develop and establish its own style, regardless of rights to other lore.
Longtime City of Heroes player, longtime writer. :) Working in Nebraska.
COT: Mission tips writer, studying Cinema 4D animation program
Yeah, the thought of Paragon one day being the Metropolis to Titan's Gotham (or vice versa) makes me happy, but right now it's not a possibility and it may never be a good idea. But nostalgia makes it a wistful thought for me as a remote future possibility. Ok if it never happens, though.
FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)
I think we're more likely to see it as Earth 2 or 3 to the "Prime" Earth if you want to use DC terms. After all, when DC wanted to reintroduce the legacy version of their characters, they went with alternate world, not "There's nothing saying there can't be two cities named Gotham and two cities named Metropolis in the world."
And I think we're more likely to see another widely used version of Titan City's 'world' show up long before we get to the point where we see us visiting City of Heroes lore, ala Praetorian Earth from City of Heroes lore.
Also, if we were to see the Hellions in Titan City, I would predict it would be a new group based around the lore of Titans, rather than the direct version used in City of Heroes.
Longtime City of Heroes player, longtime writer. :) Working in Nebraska.
COT: Mission tips writer, studying Cinema 4D animation program
If MWM does obtain permission to use the CoH IP, they could elements for one-off or repeated events. For example, a new drug hits the streets and suddenly the city starts having problems with these obnoxious green dudes who call themselves trolls, or something ("What, do they run around spray painting 'LOL' and 'first' everywhere?"). The classic tribute type stuff others have mentioned.
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[font=Pristina][size=18][b]Hail Beard![/b][/size][/font]
Support [url=http://cityoftitans.com/comment/52149#comment-52149]trap clowns[/url] for CoT!
I agree - mostly. I'd use make them like they are making sleeves - something you can tear off with no damage to the rest of the game, like your example. If one day it's there and the next day it's gone, there's no other part in the game that was relying on it being there anyway so it won't be missed as much.
... although only having it in the game for one day might be a bit inefficient.
Longtime City of Heroes player, longtime writer. :) Working in Nebraska.
COT: Mission tips writer, studying Cinema 4D animation program
I imagine these points have been made before in either this thread or another, but I really need to place them here.
Many years ago I was in a very, very bad place but didn't even realize it. I was drinking nearly every night while spending more than $200/wk on alcohol at friend's bar. A different friend mentioned that he was playing this "super-hero" based MMO and suggested I start. That was early in i3. A month later the guy who introduced me to CoH had stopped playing but I was hooked. Going from spending $200/wk and being well on my way to alcoholism to spending $15/mo and having a community of people who were so ready to help each other out was life changing for me. The game was great but it was the community for which I stayed. I haven't posted in these forums until now, but I have been following for a while and I can see that the community that made CoX what it was is now here. That means my loyalty is here. And yes, I'm burned and scarred by NCSoft and will never give them another penny (even though I am playing one of their f2p games until CoT is released).
As to a possible ulterior motive that NCSoft could have: by negotiating with these other potential game producers they could get one or more of them to slip up and make a premature statement which gives NCSoft the opening to sue. I'm not saying this is likely--I don't think it is--but it is a possible outcome. Therefore, I feel that the fewer statements made by Nate the better. As he's indicated the Korean culture requires absolute shows of respect and any slight can have devastating consequences.
In reference to benefits for MWM, I'm glad to see that one or two people have noted the safety from lawsuits that would be afforded by a desirable outcome. Being free from that threat would give CoT the ability to do even more extraordinary things since they wouldn't have to worry about every little piece of lore or art. The threat of suit by Marvel was one of the things that held CoX in check and it even caused them to restrict character names and costuming choices. The same will be true of CoT as pertains to CoX signature characters. I, for one, would love to base a toon on a sig from CoX (War-Witch in particular) but unless this deal is successful I know that will not be possible.
I have only one problem with City of Titans: I hated the Circle of Thorns and every time I see "CoT" they're all I can think of. Yick. Go Freakshow!!!
CoyoteShaman
So I decided to take a look on the atlas park revival facebook page and they made the following status announcement:
"We're going to go ahead with Issue 24 content in Revival!" Posted September 12th 2014 at 11:16
Followed by someone asking if they have got the IP. This seems like an important update or someone getting excited too soon.
https://www.facebook.com/AtlasParkRevival/posts/333252976834925
http://s29.postimg.org/a9qfu35fq/ap_revival_status.jpg
day one vet
I think someone got excited a bit too soon (or at least is failing to accurately explain the situation) - now people are going to assume way too much. And people, in my opinion, are talking way too much about the situation. Some are talking like the negotiations are a foregone conclusion. We should be keeping this on the down low - people showing a lot of interest in the IP can actually work AGAINST the negotiating team - what if NCSoft decides to increase the price if they see it as more valuable?
As for the IP and CoT - I have NO desire to see any CoH characters or lore in "CoT proper" if the deal is successful. Sounds and costume pieces? Sure. A Preatoria-like alternate dimension featuring the Paragon Universe down the road? I can dig that. But let CoT be it's own beast. If something happens with the IP in the future, costume pieces and zones can be compartmentalized. But if you weave the CoH lore in with the COT lore - it gets a LOT trickier to unravel.
Voldine sat bolt upright in her bed, bedsheets flying in every direction. Every nerve in her body from the tip of her toes to her temples was reverberating to the sound/light/color/texture/blastwave that had washed through the internet. Her hair was standing out in every direction. She could feel the aftershocks in her teeth.
Even as barely conscious as she was, she knew this was deathly important, a moment that required that she make some profound meaningful statement or other, something ringing of venerable wisdom and cosmic insight.
"Ebbeh," she said.
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Seriously though...wow.
I've been fully behind City of Titans since I heard of it. The fact that the current company president is the one that started talks with the company that deserves no name of his own will and without using any kickstarter money...and all in an effort to free up the community at large to be able to do more to connect their new games to the old. This truly brightened up a fucking horrible day.
If this deal goes through and the IP as a whole is securely divorced from its previous holders other than their logo stamped on it in a 'Kilroy was here' fashion...then you have managed to make this jaded bitch happy less than 12 hours after being fired.
The original Lady of Ysgard. -Virtue
[img]http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2010/203/c/5/Updated_Homage_by_Voldine.jpg[/img]
Voldine -- sorry to hear that news!
My fear is a contract that they cannot extend indefinitely at MWM's option, and they tie up CoT in the same world (i.e. property rights) as CoH, then a few years down the road, the other side cancels the contract (refuses to renew) dragging CoT into oblivion along woth CoH.
__________________
[IMG]http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll38/Gnurl/a72b7fba-8da2-4ac8-8e18-0f8453f7d3ee_zpscc5b27b5.jpg[/IMG]
The very existence of the taunting tank irritates, for it requires idiotic AI that obeys the taunt.
just one of the many reasons why MWM should NOT even worry about COH and continue to forge their own path. If someone else wants to play with that fire, let em....we have our own destiny to seek out.
[img]http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/whiteperegrine/84183/69278/69278_original.gif[/img]
It doesn't seem like anyone is even listening to Nate. He and others have said it over and over. BUY the IP--outright--and lease the engine, or no deal. So, most of the doomsday scenarios that people are spinning are not even a possibility.
Now, I'm not saying that CoT should use anything from CoH, I'm just saying that if the IP were bought outright, they could if they wanted to. Safely. With impunity.
FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)
MWM would not be the ones buying the CoH IP - that would be the mystery holding company. MWM could then lease the IP from said holding company - and who knows what kind of contract that would entail (though I imagine it would be rather friendly to the successors). The possibility (unlikely as it may be) is still there that the IP could be lost from CoT.
This is quite correct, which is why MWM's position is wait and see. (and it's not a mystery, it's a holding company, not much of a mystery there)
Technical Director
Read enough Facebook and you have to make Sanity Checks. I guess FB is the Great Old One of the interent these days... - Beamrider
Ok, I possibly stand corrected, but I definitely stand confused.
If a holding company is no mystery, then MWM is simply waiting to see if the IP CAN be bought or not, because, presumably, if a holding company is no mystery, they KNOW whether or not they can use the IP if the IP can be and is bought and put in said un-mysterious holding company.
So, again, we're safe because CoT is "waiting to see" if the IP can be bought. If it can't be bought and set up in the un-mysterious holding company, then we never used the CoH IP, and so we're safe. If it CAN be bought, then one day we could use CoH IP if we wanted to, safely.
No Doomsday scenario possible under the current plans, right?
What am I missing?
FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)
You've got it.
The holding company is just that, it's whole purpose is to hold, and license, the IP. That's it. If the terms of the license are not perpetual, MWM will not accept it. We all remember what happened to Warhammer, Matrix Online and Star Wars Galaxies when their licenses ended.
Technical Director
Read enough Facebook and you have to make Sanity Checks. I guess FB is the Great Old One of the interent these days... - Beamrider
Yeah, ok. So, no danger. Just possibilities for the future. No more, no less.
All good :).
FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)
It's more that they decided it would be worthwhile to incorporate Issue 24 into the revival project should it move forward. Irish Girl, who IMO has gotten an awful lot of !@#$ done with very little help, didn't quite realize how close to complete i24 was so she was hedging on the idea. All of this is years off anyway of course.
I'm sorry (and I don't want to be mean) but I will be glad when the focus returns to the task at hand. And that task isn't to resurrect CoH all or in part. This whole thing so far seems at best a sidebar distraction for at least one key individual on the CoT development team. I was a little disheartened to learn that the same guy who said this:
"A game without players is not a game at all. For anyone to ignore that, to just fold up and walk away, that's just wrong. But so long as there is no penalty to doing that, it will happen.
We are that penalty, us and groups like us. We go 'Fine, you don't want us to play your game, we'll make our own.'"
Was in the backroom all the while trying to negotiate with the people he wanted to penalize. Seems weird to me. I would have thought there was more than enough on the technical director's plate already. But it's not my call on what's best for MWM.
I think the only people not focusing on the task at hand are forumites, and I don't really see what that hurts. MWM and CoT have diverted precisely zero focus, time, attention, or effort from game development.
The whole thing IS a sidebar because Nate did it literally on the side--separate from MWM and CoT--to try to give the community something it by and large wanted--the CoH IP free from NCsoft.
It changes nothing now, and may never. If it does change anything, it'll only be that at some point in the future MWM and CoT have much more freedom and less to fear from spurious lawsuits from NCsoft, and COULD use some CoH suff if they wanted to safely.
I feel like some of the reactions we're seeing--both positive and negative--are just way out of proportion with what's actually going on. It's like people aren't listening closely enough to realize what's really being said.
FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)
In other words: people need to chill the hell out already.
The game we thought was dead has turned out to be in a coma and work is being done to see if revival is feasible at this time. Memory loss has been confirmed so the patient may be able to have conversations soon, but will not remember friends or family. Maybe he'll get just enough life after the revival to sire a few legitimate offspring...or maybe he'll be in so much pain that he just wants to die so his organs can be harvested.
The original Lady of Ysgard. -Virtue
[img]http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2010/203/c/5/Updated_Homage_by_Voldine.jpg[/img]
And the fun part, not even me. I am acting as a facilitator or agent. I get to sit in the middle and keep both sides talking. Once the deal is done, my role is kaput.
Technical Director
Read enough Facebook and you have to make Sanity Checks. I guess FB is the Great Old One of the interent these days... - Beamrider
Now that the situation has been explained more clearly (no perpetual contract? Ok...no deal) I feel much better about this whole thing.
Actually, this cheers me up for one reason and one reason only: If the deal goes through CoT may gain enough assets fro the old CoH IP to make Masterminds come to life sooner.
It's a dream I have...
Really though, this could be like buying your dad's old car and realizing that there was useful stuff in the trunk. Whatever CoT could gain by using old CoH assets, if it helps our new creation live I'm ok with that.
I'm all about recycling.
I remember when Star Wars was cool...a long, long time ago...
Gah! No! We do not want mastermind assets from CoH!
Just the idea of the run-in issue persisting makes me want to vomit. Ranged pets with no melee attacks running into an enemy's face just to tickle them with a laser...
The original Lady of Ysgard. -Virtue
[img]http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2010/203/c/5/Updated_Homage_by_Voldine.jpg[/img]
As someone who loved CoH, I'm just not sure it would have the same feel if brought back now, even more so with a different dev team. While I loved the art style of the game, there were many who enjoyed/loved CoH who thought it needed a new artstyle/updated graphics.
If CoH was never shut down, I think it'd still be doing okay now, but it was shut down, bringing it back, I'm just not sure it would hold the appeal it did before for the player base.
And I wasn't a blind fan who thought CoH didn't need improvements. :p So, while I may play it if it returned, I'm hoping CoT is worthwhile.
There are a lot of good things that come from having NC Soft's corporate approval and allowing things in the license itself that can come to help the game later too.
Crowd Control Enthusiast
No. You're misunderstanding the intent as I read it.
Once the holding company has the rights to City of Heroes; NCsoft loses any and all claim to it other than the game must retain their logo.
Once this happens, NCsoft leaves the picture. Nothing matters, and they DEFINITELY get no say in successor games that get licensed.
If NCsoft somehow manages to get any kind of creative control over the successor games...armageddon.
The original Lady of Ysgard. -Virtue
[img]http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2010/203/c/5/Updated_Homage_by_Voldine.jpg[/img]
I know my opinions aren't necessarily popular. All I ask is that we continue to keep it civil. I believe this is playing with fire, swimming with sharks or whatever similar cliché you want to use on at least three different levels. First, you can be as coy as you like but this smells like collusion with a different outfit with a different agenda (especially to those of us who do not belong to that outfit or share that agenda). Next there are the guys on the other side of the table. Be afraid. Be very afraid. Then there is the idea of opening the door to still more competition and fragmenting a finite superhero playerbase even further. Bad move
No sir. If I were the prez of MWM I would not have chased this sidebar for the sake of "recycling". But what is done is done. Now, I'm just a KS investor on the sideline (chilling) hoping this doesn't go south.
First, this is my personal viewpoint.
Your concerns have merit.
Now, I have no more knowledge of these activities than what has been provided here and in other forum topics. So, my views come just from how I see things.
As you say "what is done is done". That being the case, we must wait and see what may come. It is important to note that nothing is changing with CoT and it's development as a result of these events. MWM is moving forward unhindered by these separate activities. I feel that people need to remember that.
Much will need to happen before any decisions can be taken about what may be done with the CoX IP. If and when any of that former product is available, each development group will have to make their own decisions about what is best. I'm confident that MWM will weigh the pros and cons carefully, and make the best choices they can for the company, the project, and the community.
Note also that Nate has stated publicly that he will take no part in these decisions, as to avoid any semblance of a conflict of interest. In addition, MWM has a board of directors that oversees the larger aspects of the business, and to whom MWM's president reports.
While there are risks, there are also potential rewards from the recent CoX effort. Like you, I am wary of the risks. However, we know too little at this early date to weigh these completely. For now, all we can do is discuss it and offer our individual views. Those can be polar opposites, but I agree, please keep it civil.
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Terlin
[color=#ff0000]The Bullpen[/color]
[img]http://missingworldsmedia.com/images/favicon.ico[/img]
I loved CoX but to be honest I am more excited about City of Titans now.
I think if the devs actually get a game out I will basically play it forever.
Here's keeping my fingers crossed...
Yikes...I hope they can avoid this too.
Back in [url=http://cityoftitans.com/comment/72403#comment-72403]post # 320[/url],
So as long as they can keep saying "No, thanks," to anything less, this is not something we need to worry about. ^_^
Foradain, Mage of Phoenix Rising.
[url=https://cityoftitans.com/forum/foradains-character-conclave]Foradain's Character Conclave[/url]
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Avatar courtesy of [s]Satellite9[/s] [url=https://www.instagram.com/irezoomie/]Irezoomie[/url]
Correct, and this is their policy and has been stated over and over. And over.
The truth is that there's really just nothing to worry about.
But then, where's the fun in that :P?
FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)
Says the man who has nothing but grey (white) hair.
[img]http://sao-paulo.com.br/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Bobby-McFerrin.jpg[/img]
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[font=Pristina][size=18][b]Hail Beard![/b][/size][/font]
Support [url=http://cityoftitans.com/comment/52149#comment-52149]trap clowns[/url] for CoT!
I could listen to ^^him^^ sing all day long.
Be Well!
Fireheart
LOL, ok, whoa, whoa, whoa.
A) That is hilarious because I have actually been listening to that song a lot lately,
B) Empyrean's hair turned white in the accident that gave him his solar powers (and he got his powers when he was older and already a bit gray anyway), not form worrying, and
C) I'm actually bald as a cue ball in real life. But I do have a magnificently distinguished, neatly kept gray-streaked short beard.
That's right. I have a beard.
FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)
If you have a beard, everything you say is forfeit.
Your mind, it is under control. Carry on, citizen.
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[font=Pristina][size=18][b]Hail Beard![/b][/size][/font]
Support [url=http://cityoftitans.com/comment/52149#comment-52149]trap clowns[/url] for CoT!
If CoH is resurrected I will almost certainly play it to some extent. I won't miss my 100+ characters anymore than I already have. I think it would be exciting to start over fresh with all the knowledge I have about the game, without any advantage to the guy next to me in the way of Inf, enhancements, storage, etc. I have been thinking about this since I saw the first mention of a possible return of CoX. I have spent time looking at old lists to determine what I would build if it happens.
For me the possibility of being given a clean slate means that I can make 21 alts that represent the 29 powersets I never got to 50.
Would I still keep an eye open for details about CoT? Absolutely! Would I try CoT if it still held interest for me at that point, sure. I don't see it as an A or B thing, but as a more fun for me thing.
Familiarity?
[b][color=red]Reward tactics as well as damage dealing.[/color][/b]
I'm in the both column. But assuming I can recreate the feel of my favorite power-sets, COT is going to be loads of fun.
The Devs and the People Made COH so great...... If the players where dicks would we really care what would of happen to it?
All I know is I cant put in High hopes for CoH now, Cause soon the world gets out ((if it comes back)) I can see our old home get raided by Trashers that just want to troll... I don't want those to be my last memory's of CoH. Cause once CoT done......Im backing up my family a moving there ((Family=old players CoH))
[URL=http://s697.photobucket.com/user/DarthTalon/media/City%20of%20Heroes/wabbit_zps9ea20b32.jpg.html][IMG]http://i697.photobucket.com/albums/vv336/DarthTalon/City%20of%20Heroes/wabbit_zps9ea20b32.jpg[/IMG][/URL]
CoX was my favorite MMO ever and one of only a couple I managed to stick with for any considerable amount of time. I made friends, joined groups, and maxed out several alts. But it wasn't without its problems, so if it did come back before CoT was released I probably would play it to kill some time but once Titans came out I would make the switch. I'd rather play a game built from the ground up than play an old game resurrected
To be brutally honest I don't wish for City of Heroes/Villians to come back as while it did give me many fond memories ( moreso than any MMORPG out there) the game itself had many limitations and flaws in the coding just from the game's age and engine and that they could just not fix or expand it pass a certain point. If things go right for City of Titans I will hope to be able to relive that experience of CoX oh so long ago only this time around it would feel new and improved.
If it makes me feel like I did when I first picked it up and played it back in 3rd Grade (9 years ago) then I will be happy.
Formerly known as Bleddyn
[url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WCqnt88Umk]Do you want to be a hero?[/url]
[url=http://cityoftitans.com/forum/nyktoss-character-cove] My characters [/url]
As far as I'm concerned, City of Titans should continue as it is, even if CoH were resurrected as if it had never ended.
-S
And it will. Per Nate Downes:
Update October 2 2014:
CITY OF TITANS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS "RESCUE OPERATION". NATE DOWNES IS OPERATING OUTSIDE OF ANY POSITION HE HAS WITHIN MISSING WORLDS MEDIA.
Source: Titan Network Forums
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