Announcements
Join the ongoing conversation on Discord: https://discord.gg/city-of-titans-official-633757967899951105
a new Q1 Developer update is live. Take a moment, and check it out.
To purchase your copy of the City of Titans Launcher, visit our store at https://store.missingworldsmedia.com/ A purchase of $50 or more will give you a link to download the Launcher for Windows or Mac based machines.
I don't know about store purchases, but I thought everyone got back any leftover subscription money. Everyone I knew in the game (including me) got back the value for any subscribed months without even asking for it. Did they actually refuse to give you back your sub money when you asked? :-o
Spurn all ye kindle.
Oh, that is just mean :'(
The plastic tips on the ends of shoelaces are called Aglets; their true purpose is sinister.
I know of *one* person who had issues getting the automated refund on sub fee reimbursed. NCsoft said that they had done it, their bank said that they didn't recieve any money. It is one of those things that just sometimes happens, especially when all of my other friends had no problems with the sub fee refunds.
It wasn't a refusal on this one, just a cock up *somewhere* down the line... hell, it could have been an incorrect card number (or a cancelled/expired one) that caused a lot of the problems, we just don't know.
In terms of points purchases refunds, once you went back far enough, it is one of those things where you have to draw a line and "officially" stick to it (although customer services might bend the rules, that is up to them). So whilst I sympathise for the people who bought points before the cut off date... I think that in the grand scheme of things no matter what date they chose, people would be pissed off.
Note the servers involved to run CoH. It was married to Windows Server 2003, so I understand, which means anything later than 2008 will *not* run it in any way shape or form. (having wrestled with a repository server also designed for 2003, I can attest to the insane level of difficulty here)
*modern* servers are indeed cheaper. CoH will not run on a modern server.
Technical Director
Read enough Facebook and you have to make Sanity Checks. I guess FB is the Great Old One of the interent these days... - Beamrider
herein would lie my question, since i'm not a computer guy. could they find some way to emulate that on a sufficiently powerful pc so i could be safe in having my own copy of coh, or one that could be maintained by a close friend that i could hop on as a private server., or would it require someone to maintain several central servers? because after losing coh once id want a private option, and.i love you guys, but i do not trust anyone i cant punch. so trusting general members of the coh expat community to maintain private server makes me nervous.
there will be fancy.
ncsoft is complaining they are owed billions due to programmers running off with code.
http://www.wired.com/2007/04/former_ncsoft_e/
seems they suspect a guy they fired for poor leadership skills, whose 90 man team left with him, despite not being fired.
i was also banned once by ncsoft, got another card, and bam, back in coh for a few years more. if you pissed off the wrong person in early 2004, they got a GM friend to ban you. later, 2 months later, we would all be forced to sign legal notes in order to get into game, like all modern games do now. all that nonsense stopped then.
i recently decided i wont be doing business with ncsoft. ever. in any function. unless they sell out to me and my friends. of course we expect a great deal. pennies on the dollar.
ncsoft should also make a good target for trade war restrictions. normally under current us law, ratting a company out makes you and the company in trouble. in this case, it is giving the US a weapon to use, so is legal and will not result in me getting a low level terrorist label. after all, they make sure to limit their US hiring.........
i also wont be doing business with any company that operates by sending money to ncsoft as rent.
to have internal problems is one thing, but then to not refund money owed is fraud. i cannot AFFORD to be associated with such a company that has so many outstanding complaints. valid ones.
i have been fair.
city of heroes is dead. long live the new king, city of titans.
What a man thinks of himself, that is what determines, or rather indicates, his fate. - Henry David Thoreau
This is OLD OLD news... as in 7 years old (its in the date), and has since been resolved[1]. The people involved were given fines and jail time, and the game was still allowed to be released.
That game?
TERA.
[1] Granted, in several stages, but I believe that it was all wrapped up in the courts before 2012 came around...
Only if they could restore all my characters, loot, bases...and if it was the same game as when I left. Otherwise I shall wait for City of Titans.
So if the game came back, but we all had to start fresh. And CoT was like a year away. You wouldn't play CoH?
Currently trapped inside the Speed Force...
In theory yes, in reality, not so easy. The OS it was designed for is no longer supported. One which works "close enough" is nearing end of life. Once that happens, it's pretty much game-over there. (not a cheap OS either)
Technical Director
Read enough Facebook and you have to make Sanity Checks. I guess FB is the Great Old One of the interent these days... - Beamrider
Honestly, copies of Server 2008 are easily available.
The thing is, you're really NOT going to want to run a setup like this on bare metal.
From talking with the devs, each map was essentially its own mapserver. And simply marrying one to a physical or logical processor core would be HIDEOUS use of a server. It'd also be impossible to load balance properly.
That and you'd have to manage everything through the Windows stack. For high availability, high user-count, that's just a "Oh hell naw!".
You'd want to virtualize. And likely set up a blade farm. This way, all the heavy traffic is confined to the farm's backplane (which has a hell of a lot more bandwidth than even a 10 GBit ethernet connection, and lower latency to boot). You can then dole out resource limited VMs that utilize virtual processors (which can comprise a single physical core, logical core, or a group of them (or even ALL of them for a very needy zone)).
And, with things like VMWare's VMotion, if a VM is on a server that's starved for resources, you can more or less seamlessly push it over to another blade (or set of blades) in the farm.
Basically, management is MUCH more granular, and resource allocation becomes more complex, but ultimately more refined. So you wind up wasting less and getting maximum possible performance out of your hardware. Additionally, in the event of a hardware failure, you have the ability to migrate virtual devices off the affected physical resource without needing to crack a case and start getting your hands dirty. This helps minimize unplanned downtime. You simply take the misbehaving stuff offline and leave it until your next maintenance window.
Now, I've never actually worked in the computer GAMING industry, but I've had exposure to VMWare for similarly utilized environments previously. I also have lots and lots of friends who have lots of experience with various virtualization technologies.
1) 99% of the stuff that comes out of my mouth is intended to be funny on one or more levels.
2) The other 1% is just straight BS.
3) You're never going to be entirely sure which is which.
[url]http://cox-supergroups.com[/url]
the copies of windows 2008 are just about sold out.
lol, however amazon still has 7 new copies of the prima strategy guide from 2004.
What a man thinks of himself, that is what determines, or rather indicates, his fate. - Henry David Thoreau
I've used [url=https://www.virtualbox.org/wiki/Virtualization]VirtualBox[/url], but something tells me you are talking about Hardware Virtualizations that run from the Firmware? Hyper-V? KVM? and not so much Paravirtualization?!? :(
I'd definately be sticking with CoT. I played CoH from 2004-2006, then pretty much switched to WoW when ti became apparent there would never be a level cap past 50. My last few months of playing CoH pretty much consisted of giving away money in Costume Contests in Paragon City, how bored I was:) While it would be nostalgic to revisit, at this point I have moved on and am excited for the future.."CoT"!!!!
I'm all for a return and if it even remotely resembles CoH, would probably make the jump from CoT. Assuming Titans even makes it to beta.
The more I hear about the thinking behind CoT and the decisions the Devs are making, the more excited I get about the potential of the game. It really seems to me like the devs understand what worked IN CoH and what made it work AS a game, as well as what didn't work in the game, AND, rather than just copying these things, are using that knowledge as a starting point to create a NEW game.
That's exciting.
However, much like CoH, I do think that (unfortunately) there will be a limited audience for this game, so I'm also glad that the Devs are NOT using the "throw money at the problem" approach, but are starting with what is an exceedingly modest amount of money for a MMORPG and developing the game on a budget. This way, I suspect and hope, a culture of using creativity and ingenuity rather than tons of cash will develop behind the game and allow the CoT to be resilient, long-lived, and well-developed.
That all being said, it does mean there are real challenges to CoT "even making beta." But, I mean, isn't looking danger straight in the face and doing the right thing even if it's against the odds and overcoming anyway a big part of what the whole Superhero mythos is about?
Win or lose, this game is in that spirit.
FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)
EXACTLY!!!
I have similar feelings as I follow this project. That's why I'm not worried about how long pre-production takes. Who wants to hear down the line "why didn't you have this feature, it is soo obvious it belongs in the game"? Think power color customization in CoH. So, as many 'hooks' they think they can open up by pre-planning that 5 years down the line it is not such a monumental task to add a feature the better. The way this project is going, I'm hoping for the next EVE Online, not the gameplay part but the ability to constantly add to the game and most of all add subscribers as time goes on due to it being feature-rich and very involving.
Not to mention they need to take their time to get combat right so the visceral feel of CoH is met or exceeded. The little I played DCUO, it still did not have the same 'weight' I preferred in City of Heroes. Strange how CO doesn't have the same feel but Neverwinter achieved a better result despite all 3 games having a variation of the same engine. How the CoT teams achieves the same feel with a different engine will be an outstanding achievement to me since in my limited exposure to other games, single or MMO, I've yet to experience one outside of the Cryptic engine to match the type of combat I enjoyed for 8 years. This is why I would have no problem going back to City of Heroes.
[b][color=red]Reward tactics as well as damage dealing.[/color][/b]
I'm ALL for waiting on COT, ...... would love to see something by next year for Beta. If not? than COH coming back as temp fix to buffer time, Until COT is ready. However, every moment, nickle, attention spent on COH is less time to see COT come to light. Same people that help make the software for COH (over seas) should be the ones brought to the table to help make COT. I'm sure if presented correctly they would be all in to make a POINT and help out ;)
~KC~
for record (DEVS) i will pull out my long sword from Eclipseking if yall stop building COT. DO NOT STOP NO MAtter WHAT!! -_-
~KC~
The big hope is to have the beta of the avatar builder available by the end of this year. It's quite possible that, by Christmas, we'll be creating and posting images of our characters.
- - - - -
[font=Pristina][size=18][b]Hail Beard![/b][/size][/font]
Support [url=http://cityoftitans.com/comment/52149#comment-52149]trap clowns[/url] for CoT!
Is it sad that just that gives me a hint of butterflies in my stomach when I think about it? Is that sad? It's sad, right?
Oh, wait, I don't care if it's sad. I'll be a happy, happy sad little man.
FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)
My previous post contained too many commas.
That makes me sad.
That is all.
- - - - -
[font=Pristina][size=18][b]Hail Beard![/b][/size][/font]
Support [url=http://cityoftitans.com/comment/52149#comment-52149]trap clowns[/url] for CoT!
That would be awesome, look forward to that. I enjoyed the " art work " forum...makes good conversations.
~KC~
Considering that I write better without a sword in my stomach, I'll be sure that the others keep working.
Even if only for my own personal safety.
What? Writing is dangerous.
[color=#ff0000]Composition Team[/color]
Titan City is my new home, if COH returns, let it, but it won't have me.
Paragon and the Rogue Isles burned the day they shut it down, and from the ashes is Titan. Titan is my future, for I'm still gonna boycott NCsoft, they rejected the player attempts to save the game, they ignored our petitions, even if a new company runs the game I won't play it.
You hear the dead, their bones shake and rattle for you to join them. So you will.
paper cuts?
[img]http://www.scientificamerican.com/sciam/cache/file/2867B0DB-FFEC-4FF7-9BE7EA923CAB4C06.jpg[/img]
Which is ironic seeing as they are paying attention now to the groups, and for all we know, NCsoft might have *no* running with the new company running City of Heroes. So boycotting NCsoft would be meaningless where it concerns NCsoft. Unless of course you mean "Boycott *anything* that has had anything to do with NCsoft", where then you might as well play indie game full stop.
If I took a line like that though, I wouldn't be able to play games from 2K Games, Gearbox, Elder Scrolls Online, Epic etc etc (Hint: They all have former NCsoft employees working for them).
Now whilst I don't agree with them not selling the game to the developers, I have no idea as to why the buy out attempt failed; I do at least appreciate the fact that they seem to doing their due diligence with *other* groups who apparently tried to purchase the game.
Hell, one group allegedly backed out as soon as NCsoft (effectively said) "The NCsoft and Cryptic logos will stay". The buyers apparently didn't even *try* to discuss/negotiate over this. Now this to me would have made me feel bad with the company if that were THAT unwilling to even discuss something like this (or even use the fact that they are accepting this requirement as a leverage point for other areas in the negotiations).
Hell, I am glad that they didn't sell to the first group of people who just turned up and went "give us the game", because if that company then collapsed or ruined the game for us, we would turn around to NCsoft and lay the hate on them for selling to the "wrong people". Even though the failure of the new company would be *NONE* of their responsibility.
So to some extent, I am glad that they are doing their "due diligence" with the new company, and I would still go back to fiddle with the game occasionally. It is the game that brought me to the whole MMORPG genre, so I do have great appreciation for it.
Still not going to return to Paragon, or the Isles. On that day, there was armageddon, in my eyes the world is dead, Titan is the future.
You hear the dead, their bones shake and rattle for you to join them. So you will.
If CoH comes back, I'll be one of the first in line to get back in the city I loved. However, when CoT goes live, I'll be one of the first in line to get in. I don't really see it as an either/or scenario. But if you ask me where I'll be spending most of my time if/when both are available, I'd have to say CoT.
--
Kickstarter Backer # 1337
I will play whichever is better.
No doubt I will try both.
There are two key things whether CoT will be DOA in my mind: Scrapperlock, and no-pew-pew masterminds. As Masterminds are not for first release, that leaves Scrapperlock.
And Scrapperlock involves using a bindable /follow that gets you into melee range (and quickly at your combat speed, even if flying or leaping.). Most scrappers had superjump to get invaluable and underrated Combat Jumping, a mini superjump and fast movement.
There may be some undiscovered third area of awesomeness, but "the usual suspects" of tank, heal, buff/debuff, and blast are sideshows for me, being less than 10% of my hundred alts.
("No pew pew" masterminds are where the pets do the direct work during a fight and I manage the pets, heal, direct, and buff/debuff things. If I wanted to play a rootin' tootin' shooter with pets that support **me**, I'd play, oh, I don't know, EVERY FREAKIN' OTHER MMORPG EVER MADE.)
__________________
[IMG]http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll38/Gnurl/a72b7fba-8da2-4ac8-8e18-0f8453f7d3ee_zpscc5b27b5.jpg[/IMG]
The very existence of the taunting tank irritates, for it requires idiotic AI that obeys the taunt.
In fact, I would say the four biggest serendipitous discoveries in online games over the past, well, since MUD days, are, in no particular order:
- Rocket jumping
- PK griefing (fun only for griefers of course)
- Scrapperlock
- mastermind who isn't a wild west cowboy
__________________
[IMG]http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll38/Gnurl/a72b7fba-8da2-4ac8-8e18-0f8453f7d3ee_zpscc5b27b5.jpg[/IMG]
The very existence of the taunting tank irritates, for it requires idiotic AI that obeys the taunt.
One good point Gorgon brought up is that pet-type characters really threw me off in every game after CoH because your pets were are mainly your support, when in CoH you were the Mastermind controlling and supporting your pets.
My son was a huge Mastermind fan and he's been at a loss in every other game we played, because he'd grab all of the pets he could, but they always mainly "stood behind" him rather than him being able to "stand behind" them as he loved in CoH.
Now, since OPTIONS is king, being able to do both would be great, but, in lieu of that, I hope we get the old CoH Mastermind feel.
Another good point is /follow. I loved the "I'm deciding what my hero does, but not doing every little thing for him" feel of CoH combat. /Follow played a big role in that, and it seems to be a no-no in gaming in general for some reason.
I prefer to feel like my input is "now go over there and use this attack on that guy" and watch the action as my awesome hero that I made does it rather than turn him, take each step, and make each movement.
FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)
Well, it's September and no action yet on the possible return of the old COH.
Likely it is simply too difficult to deliver something we'd want to play. It sounds to me as though NCSoft did not expect to ever revive COH, and therefore did not take adequate precautions to retain revival as an option, when they shut it down.
Good thing we have COT in development.
Somehow the whole experience makes me want to suggest another COT kickstarter, LOL. That was almost as much fun as playing. There was the definite tang of victory about the kickstarter.
I don't know how many people are under the misapprehension that zCoH would be playable within days or even weeks of the deal going through. As has been mentioned elsewhere, if not here, even if the deal were announced as complete today or tomorrow it would be the work of months to make the game operational again. My understanding is that the best case scenario is that zCoH would be up and running by the middle of next year. Admittedly, this understanding is based on some fairly wild speculation about what, precisely, NCSoft can or will provide to the buyers.
- - - - -
[font=Pristina][size=18][b]Hail Beard![/b][/size][/font]
Support [url=http://cityoftitans.com/comment/52149#comment-52149]trap clowns[/url] for CoT!
http://www.cohtitan.com/forum/index.php/topic,10284.msg158077.html#msg158077
For those of you have have not heard the news. Have a look.
IF City of Titans pays for licensing it's possible they could get rights to use things from the original COH.. INCLUDING:
Recreating the old costumes
Using CoH characters
Using Character Story (Paragon City and Titan City could be in the same universe)
What do you guys think **as it relates to City of Titans**? (I know that there are ramifications for other titles, INCLUDING CoH but my questions are really as pertains to CoT)
What cost (if any) would players be okay with paying to NCSoft? 20% of profits? a flat amount? Is the bad blood with NCSoft lessened if they offer us the ability to use the City of Heroes/Villains IP?
Crowd Control Enthusiast
I would love it. Originally, as a huge Marvel and DC fan I did not think I could fall completely in love with another hero universe. Though I backed CoT, I was again not enamored of the idea of trying to immerse myself in some never before seen lore, heroes, villains, etc. I was even less so when seeing some of the concepts and stories, though I'm sure not many would be so enthused with any game this early on in its development. The design and combat with groups like Malta, Freakshow an Nemesis were a lasting impression and I thought it would be a huge waste to let such content die, never to see it again. That all said, I was always holding out a tiny hope that one of the Z projects could get the IP(not the game, engine or source code) and recreate it with new ideas, stories and combat. There is also the level of familiarity I built up over time and try as we might the majority of us like familiarity(take Hollywood movies that make the most money as an example) so I'm no different in that I didn't want to give up that comfort. I mean come on, the Warhulk was just an awesome looking concept.
I have no issues paying NCSoft. I was angry at first of course but no other company comes even close to giving me so much enjoyment. I played City of Heroes for 8 years. For those that are older, look back at your gaming experience and really reflect on that amount of time. At least for me, nothing comes even close to providing such long term enjoyment. So why would I hate NCSoft for giving me that? Everything ends eventually.
Either way, I still don't want to get my hopes too high. As was said, this deal could still fall apart but I would love a chance to show all people involved how much I would appreciate a second chance to play City of Heroes again. To put it bluntly, by how much money I would spend on the game and anything else they decide to license!!! I've been buying old Heroclix, old boxes(just because my originals were in storage), non-licensed T-shirts, guides, etc.
As far as my gaming is concerned these past two years, there was and is nothing like City of Heroes.
[b][color=red]Reward tactics as well as damage dealing.[/color][/b]
If there is a true acquiring of the Atlas Park Revival to City of Titans, I see no reason players couldn't take a transport to visit the most iconic part of Paragon City to RP In-Game with a licensing deal like this. in place..
Crowd Control Enthusiast
CoT has evolved into it's own being. Being able to include CoX IP subject matter well there are a lot of questions that come up then. One how did Titan City handle the Rikti invasion? Are Council/5th column working with the Vril or did the 5th make their own tech to counter Vril tech? Will there be a Portal Corp in Titan city and will we go to Pretoria?
As much as I would like CoT to have involvement with the CoX universe those things will need to be addressed either in game or in game archives. On top of that if Titan city is in the CoX universe... What is the Coming Storm?
-------------------------------------------
Personal rules of good roleplay
1.) Nothing goes as planned.
2.) If it goes as planned it's not good RP
So let me get this straight - if this all pans out:
An independent company will be licencing out the CoH IP for potential games, comics, merch, etc., as well as restarting CoH i23 in maintenance mode (sans character data) until Windows 9 drops in 2015 (or at least that will start sounding the death knell for that build of the game).
By that time it is hoped that the Atlas Park Revival Project will 'port the game over to Unreal 4 using a City of Titans build - effectively creating a CoH 1.5 but making the game potentially compatible with CoT?
Any of the "spiritual successors" (CoT, VO, HaV) can pay to use the CoH IP in their games - effectively erasing the "spiritual" off the title and becoming one or more official "CoH 2's"
Hmmm - we would still be paying NCSoft for the license to use the CoH IP - what happens if they decide to cut us off in the future? And how would the CoT lore interact with the CoH lore? SO many questions - I really hope the devs release a detailed statement regarding how this would affect CoT. I'm sure this would not affect the actual physical building of CoT to any great degree (at least I hope not - the character system in this game looks like it would be far superior) - although it might have some effect on the physical game world - and certainly a great deal of impact on the lore I'm sure. Interested to hear more info.
Also - it'd be great if they could have incorporated the i24 stuff into the CoH resurrection, but maybe the APR/CoH1.5 would take those plans into account? All very interesting.
Before any of your questions are answered, NCSoft would have to commit to some terms of what the holding company that owns the IP wants. I suspect profit sharing is most advantageous to them.. I don't know if that fits into the City of Titans business model.
As with much of EVERYthing creative and established there is much creativity to be had. A dimension as we know them is just an establishment of the fabric of space/time. The game could be in the same dimension on an alternate space; this is difficult because Paragon City is to be in Rhode Island, United States, Earth and Titan City is to be in Massachusetts, United States, Earth. We could SHARE this space if we are on a different time.. The future or past to City of Heroes. And of course there is always the possibility that they are on a different fabric of space/time altogether.. an alternate universe.
Crowd Control Enthusiast
Holy $&#a!
Well, if this pans out in a good way--WOOT! If not, we still have CoT coming, and when that day finally comes--WOOT!
I'm seeing win/win. Am I missing anything?
FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)
Just wondering about any NCSoft hidden motives.. besides cash! ;)
You know the old saying that claims the best way to decide how you feel about something is to flip a coin...and ignore the result, instead examining your feelings to find out what result you were hoping for? I used this example this morning to my gf when I explained there was supposed to be an announcement on zCoH yesterday and I never bothered to look for it. That's how much more invested I am in CoT now.
So, with that as my starting point, imagine how stunned I am at this news. Maybe I'm completely dense (you wouldn't be the first to agree!) but I can't see how this benefits CoT. And CoT is now my primary concern.
At first I thought, "Oh, cool, MWM will own zCoH and give us that to play while we wait for CoT, which makes me more likely to want to pay for a zombified game, because all my funds will go to benefit development of CoT." But if I understand this right, zCoH will be run by a completely separate group, so any income won't benefit CoT.
Personally, I have no attachment to the CoX IP as far as lore. I'm actually looking forward to a fresh start in a completely new world. So, while some folks clearly would like access to elements of the old lore in CoT, I find it hard to imagine that this alone is enough of an advantage to CoT to make the effort worthwhile. Again, I could be wrong.
So all I'm getting at the moment (until I get an explanation my tiny brain can process) is that folks from MWM have been devoting time to procuring old stuff from CoX so that there can be more competition for CoT. This makes me nervous about the future of CoT. I'd rather wait with no decent MMO to play till CoT comes out than have a zCoH to play that eventually produces a competing product via CoX1.5.
I'd like to +1 the request for an official comment from MWM explaining what this means to us, your loyal CoT converts. Pretty please with sugar on top.
Spurn all ye kindle.
For all intents and purposes, my feelings mirror Cinnder's almost exactly. My excitement[color=red]*[/color] for CoT was in being a spiritual successor of CoH, not in being CoH in a new wrapper. To me, the news that the 'spiritual' will be dropped from this proposition is more cause for concern than for celebration. Hopefully the additional information will allay those concerns.
[br]
[color=red]*[/color] And, let's be honest here, my money.
- - - - -
[font=Pristina][size=18][b]Hail Beard![/b][/size][/font]
Support [url=http://cityoftitans.com/comment/52149#comment-52149]trap clowns[/url] for CoT!
I have not been involved in anything other than assigned tasks solely for developing CoT so please take what I say with a pound of salt. Those few who have been involved in zCoH have and continue to work very hard, without pay, on this game, including Dr. Tyche, who made the announcement over on the other forum.
When and if the attempt succeeds, removing the 'spiritual' from 'spiritual successor' leaves us with, 'successor'. A distinction which might seem small, but really can only help our efforts here. This being we wold to need to fear possible threat of law suit from NCSoft. We have been very careful in our use of terms for many parts of the creation of our game, including when referencing the history from which the effect to make the game has sprung.
Now as to the possibility of adding tour competition, I understand the fears that come with the thought. Truthfully though, we should not fear the competition of a frozen i23 state of CoH, a CoH 1.5, or even a CoH 2.0. In my view, we should feel emboldened by the possibility of competition. There are already 3 on line hero themed games which occupy what many view as a niche in the MMO land scape. And there are including CoT, 3 attempts to develop a spiritual successor of CoH. If CoH were to return as another viable game in the new form of 1.5 or 2.0, us here working on CoT will need to deliver a service experience that is compelling enough to not only sustain the game, but help it grow. It will need to stand out from all other forms of competition.
The deck has been stacked against us from the beginning; a community of players banning together to create an employee owned, virtual game studio assembled of an entirely volunteer workforce to create an MMO with practically no budget. There have been shake ups in leadership, reformation of the company, and a kick starter that was more successful than we could have ever hoped (seriously thank you!). A constant reminder that if we are not careful a very large, powerful international company could sue us into oblivion. We have direct competition of other established IP hero themed games on the market, and 2 other fan-based attempts similar to our own. And there were three, but one failed its kick starter and since then, I haven't heard much of that company or the game they intended to make. Then we had a switch from one engine to another and had to deal with all the work entailed in such an effort. And we have yet to prove ourselves worthy of the loyalty so many have amazingly given to our effort.
Looking at the above paragraph, the possibility of a return of CoH should not be viewed as a threat. In some ways it helps, and yes in other ways it adds challenge. That's ok, look at all the challenges we have had to overcome, and are still before us, one more challenge won't break us. If we fail, the failure isn't becuase CoH returned, but would be our failure as developers and a company to deliver a service deemed rewarding enough to be considered a success.
[hr]I don't use a nerf bat, I have a magic crowbar!
- Combat Mechanic -
[color=#ff0000]Tech Team. [/color]
Thanks for the reply, Tannim. If copyright infringement, despite all MWM's careful efforts, was that much of a looming shadow of doom, then I can see how removing "spiritual" might be an advantage. (Of course, MWM will probably have to add "One of the..." in its place, given that the IP will be available to the other efforts as well.)
However, it seems to me from a player's point of view that, while yes in theory competition is good for a market, this niche genre (as you point out) has to deal with market saturation and brand loyalty. Who has the time to play 7 superhero MMOs, or even 4 if we stick to just CoX-based ones? How many people who don't have the time or money to play more than one superhero MMO will go with the one with the official CoH name, even if it's technically inferior to CoT, just because of that name?
Speaking both as a player/fan and an investor, I'm still not seeing the upside of this. And I desperately want to.
[Edited to change vocabulary that might have seemed somewhat incendiary.]
Spurn all ye kindle.
My feelings mirror a few others. If zCOH becomes active I will log in, I will strive to get to level 50, I will take many many many screenshots like a tourist. At the end my character will board a plane and fly back home to Titan City. Why... well as much as I loved CoH it the community that made it feel like a home. That community has struggles, fractured, and fought, over all we are still together. Other games had came to an end and the Community evaporated, heck ours is even growing as new people posting on these forums wanting to help and wanting to be part of it who never played CoH or some never heard of it. There is a Quote that sums up my feelings...
“You can't go back home to your family, back home to your childhood, back home to romantic love, back home to a young man's dreams of glory and of fame, back home to exile, to escape to Europe and some foreign land, back home to lyricism, to singing just for singing's sake, back home to aestheticism, to one's youthful idea of 'the artist' and the all-sufficiency of 'art' and 'beauty' and 'love,' back home to the ivory tower, back home to places in the country, to the cottage in Bermude, away from all the strife and conflict of the world, back home to the father you have lost and have been looking for, back home to someone who can help you, save you, ease the burden for you, back home to the old forms and systems of things which once seemed everlasting but which are changing all the time--back home to the escapes of Time and Memory.”
― Thomas Wolfe
We maybe able to log into CoH again, we will have to start all over. We may see old friends, may even reform old Supergroups, but it won't be the same. Paragon studios will be closed still. The new owners May be just as open just as fun but they wouldn't be the same core group. We will not see Ascendant talking on the phone to his agent. We will not learn what the Coming Storm would be like. Like the Quote says, We can't go back home, but we can continue to strive forward to a new one.
-------------------------------------------
Personal rules of good roleplay
1.) Nothing goes as planned.
2.) If it goes as planned it's not good RP
Who says people would have to play 7 superhero MMOs? I think you are over-inflating the issue here. People will pick their favourite(s) and play that - it is up to the individual developers to make their game up to snuff.
Besides - there is nothing saying ANY of the "Spiritual Successors" are a sure thing. At the end of the day CoT, VO and HaV, one or all, may sink. So far - MWM/CoT is the one I see that has the most potential and is going in a direction that I approve of, and IIRC has the most support, but at least there are multiple horses in the race.
There is no guarantee about CoT having a license, only that the opportunity is there. That will be discussed at length when the time comes, and I will not be part of that discussion to avoid a conflict of interest.
The upside for CoT is threefold. One, the plan would have APR/CoH licensing the CoT modified UE4 game server as well as several modules, which means we would make money from them which can be used to further this game. Two, as mentioned above, such a license would enable CoT to reuse existing assets, like sounds, costumes, etc, expanding what we could offer with less effort on our part. Three, it prevents the community from further fracturing - splitting apart or worse, turning on itself.
Over the past two years, I have seen an awful lot of the last one.
*could* we integrate the old lore? Easily - pull a Praetoria, have it a completely different universe. With APR running the same engine, adding the physical world as a dimension would be a piece of cake even.
We will see what happens. Still a lot of variables, and the rug can be pulled out at any time.
If and until this is more than talk, nothing changes with CoT. When it is more than talk, then we will need to sit down and discuss. There are a lot of potential options here, after all.
Technical Director
Read enough Facebook and you have to make Sanity Checks. I guess FB is the Great Old One of the interent these days... - Beamrider
Thanks for taking the time to address my concerns, Doc. Especially to lay out the specific advantages. I'm not too keen on #2, but I suppose others are. #1 and #3 make sense to me, though.
Response appreciated. Tentative nature of all of this understood.
Spurn all ye kindle.
I feel in light of the very recent news that MWM was the secret company involved in talks to resurrect CoH, the company feeding Ironwolf information over on cohtitan, shouldn't we have an official post from Nate to let us know exactly what's happening here?
Currently trapped inside the Speed Force...
As far as I understand - he wasn't doing it as a member of MWM - this was something he and a few other PlanZ peeps were doing on the side apart from this project.
not even PlanZ folk, just people who did not want to surrender.
Since this effort is not directly involving MWM, it would be wildly inappropriate for a statement here.
Technical Director
Read enough Facebook and you have to make Sanity Checks. I guess FB is the Great Old One of the interent these days... - Beamrider
So, he's involved with both projects?
Currently trapped inside the Speed Force...
So, I mean, we're back to win/win, right? If it goes through there are several potential benefits, and if it doesn't we're back where we started, which is with the BEST (yeah, I said it) spiritual successor to CoH.
I am a business owner. I believe in Murphy's Law. It is a fundamental law of the universe. I think it should be taught in physics and added to Newton's laws and quantum mechanics.
But, I'm having a hard time seeing a serious downside here. And, to alleviate all of your fears about my tempting the gods by saying that, I'm knocking on all nearby wood fervently (no, that's not what I mean, get your mind out of the gutter).
The only downside I can imagine is if this is some kind of sabotage tactic by NCsoft, and I may just not be sophisticated enough to see it, but I don't see a way it can do all that much harm (knocking on wood fervently--no, not that way. Jeez.)
FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)
For now. Once the holding company is set up, my role there is over with.
Technical Director
Read enough Facebook and you have to make Sanity Checks. I guess FB is the Great Old One of the interent these days... - Beamrider
The information I've been able to gather (here and elsewhere) have allayed my concerns. I'm not keen on seeing CoH lore shoehorned into CoT, but for now that strikes me to be a fairly remote possibility.
- - - - -
[font=Pristina][size=18][b]Hail Beard![/b][/size][/font]
Support [url=http://cityoftitans.com/comment/52149#comment-52149]trap clowns[/url] for CoT!
Hope for the best and plan for the worst. I support all the PlanZ operations even H&V even hope the APR goes through. In a way you could call APR PlanZ operation #4. If CoH does like many Superheroes over the years have done and return from the dead even in a Zombie state it would tie us over till Titan City is officially open. If CoH2 is produced It would have a lot if things to live up to where the Spiritual Successors don't face we don't expect a CoH clone. Maybe some of the others but not us. CoH 1.5 or 2 will have to fight Nostalgia and as we all seen with Transformers (Bayformers) and the new TMNT movie, Thought the Nickelodeon TMNT quite good. Nostalgia is something that's nearly impossible to fight so adding CoH lore into any of the PlanZ will bring up that issue.
Really to see how powerful Nostalgia really is if you're a fan of the transformers watch some of the Original cartoons. Poor Plots, poor animation sometimes with the wrong colors or even no face animation when a character talk or go watch the original 1987 TMNT cartoon or the one from 2003.
-------------------------------------------
Personal rules of good roleplay
1.) Nothing goes as planned.
2.) If it goes as planned it's not good RP
So correct me if I'm wrong, but if this thing really does go through, CoT COULD have ALL of CoX's costume, building, zone, and animation assets, just like that, and could, say, use some CoX zones as instances if they wanted to? That sounds awesome. The costume stuff alone would be a huge bonus and then the occasional mission where you travel to Paragon to rescue Miss Liberty or something would be really fun.
R.S.O. of Phoenix Rising
Thanks for that clarification, Doctor Tyche.
I'm allowing myself to be excited about this concept, mainly because if it falls through, we are no better nor worse off than we were a few months ago: MWM can still go full steam ahead with CoT. But if MWM can access the CoH database and all that it entails (sfx, costumes, lore, etc.), they can take the best of the best that was there, and use it or modify it for their game, which only sounds like a benefit in my mind.
That being said, I share the concerns of Cinnder and others about a saturated market. The number of games available will increase, while the number of players interested in superhero MMORPGs likely will not, at least not to the point needed to give every one of those games a thriving community of its own capable of sustaining it. There's also the added issue of the brand. DCUO and Marvel Heroes can both capitalize on their brand names, while CoX and any of its successors (spiritual or otherwise) will have far less resonance as names.
The one variable to all of the above will be how the superhero genre, as a whole, will continue. As of right now, television and film media are largely capitalizing on the superhero fad. Yes, they have always been around, but they are definitely the "in" thing right now. It is hard to know if that popularity will continue to grow as Marvel's Netflix series take off, and the DC Cinematic Universe begins to take shape, or if popularity will fizzle as people grow tired of it.
In any case, this looks like progress in a right direction, and I look forward to seeing how it continues.
[hr]
[center]
[size=15][b][i]A cold front is heading toward Titan City[/i][/b][/size]
Ice Man of [url=http://cityoftitans.com/forum/phoenix-rising-initiative-0]The Phoenix Rising Initiative[/url]
[/center]
The biggest question in my eyes is now "how will this effect story?" Would (assuming all goes well) COT take place in the same universe as COH? Or perhaps simply the same "multiverse," kind of like The Marvel Universe and The New Universe (or Ultraverse)? Or would there just not be any story connection, and it'd be more of a "we can do whatever we want with costumes and eastereggs and not have to worry about getting our butts sued for trademark infringement?"
Hollywood has largely become a franchise/re-make/sequel/pre-quel industry; and Marvel has movies planned out for the next 14 years.
I haven't read a comic book this century and I don't bother much with watching too many movies, but I easily logged 25-30 hours/week on my 3 accounts with CoX.
There'll be no fizzle. There'll be no tiring : )
[img]https://i.imgur.com/26pBVBG.png[/img]
([i]Currently developing the Sapphire 7 Initiative[/i])
Not sure, but I can't even imagine the fun that the lore and composition folks are going to have putting together all of those creative, intriguing and entertaining stories!
[img]https://i.imgur.com/26pBVBG.png[/img]
([i]Currently developing the Sapphire 7 Initiative[/i])
not at all. The IP holding company is not part of MWM, nor is there any plans for it to be so. Any licensing to be done will be for what makes the most sense for both the new firm as well as MWM.
Technical Director
Read enough Facebook and you have to make Sanity Checks. I guess FB is the Great Old One of the interent these days... - Beamrider
So what is the possibility that CoT Kickstarter funds will go to either (a) a holding company to fund zcoh or (b) NCSoft. While there isn't a whole lot I can do about it, I remain concerned about the incestuous nature of this whole deal (and I did not contribute to the Kickstarter effort to do either a or b).
As always I do hope for the best when it comes to MWM and any future association it has with NCsoft either directly or via this "holding company" concept for licensing purposes. I just can't help to think that this ongoing desire to have some kind of "official relationship" with NCsoft only puts MWM (and the other CoH successor projects for that matter) into a strange, less-than-equal partnership that we may eventually come to regret.
Let's look at the realities here. In exchange for paying money (via the holding company) to NCsoft for "licensing fees" the startups like MWM would supposedly be allowed to borrow specific elements of CoH's IP and also ostensibly call themselves true successors of the brand (by dropping the "spiritual" euphemisms). While those things sound great in theory I think the cynic in me keeps managing to disbelieve these idealistic temptations and boil this situation down to its brass tacks: NCsoft is finally realizing that they can make new effort-free money off a dead IP simply by lording over the tacit fact that if the enthralled companies like MWM don't pay them the "licensing fees" they can always decide at some random future date to sue them into the dirt for perceived IP infringement. It's certainly a win-win for NCsoft, but I'm having trouble seeing the "win" part for people like MWM, especially considering MWM seemed happy enough working towards making a new game that didn't originally plan to give NCsoft free money for their "involvement" at all. What would MWM really be getting for their money? Is what NCsoft offering as benefits worth the price?
I hate to be critically pessimistic about all this but it really looks like NCsoft is maneuvering itself into a de facto protection racket letting well-meaning folks like MWM carry on with their spiritual projects as long as they pay what amounts to protection money for a few crumbs of "legitimacy". The net effect is that NCsoft profits from the hard work of other people who didn't want to see CoH killed in the first place. The whole thing seems problematic for us at best - maybe when NCsoft didn't want to play ball we should have just let sleeping dogs lie and carried on without them.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
hrmm...I am not a fan of leasing any IP rights. while it may make some items a lot easier it comes at a cost and given this is a start up company, cost is a very real thing to consider especially when looking at long term viability, much less just getting off the ground and up an running. my personal opinion is that CoT have nothing to do with CoH and continue to forge their own path. if another party decides to revive CoH or use their IP...more power to em I say.
worst case scenario is that license is leased, then for X reason license is lost...since game has been built using large important chunks of that IP (because it made things easier) you now have to basically kill the whole thing as you don't have the assets in place ready from the word 'go' to replace the lost IP information.
perhaps I am being a negative nancy, but I say, why risk it or even waste the effort/manpower when it all could be directed towards making CoT that much better and able to stand on it own two superpowered feet! :)
just my wooden nickel on what has/is occurring...
edit: ...oh, and I think we should completely lose the "spiritual successor" bit...lets get our own cape!
[img]http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/whiteperegrine/84183/69278/69278_original.gif[/img]
From the other thread: the goal is to purchase IP, lease engine.
Also, to be clear, Missing World's finances are not going to anything but Missing Worlds' effort to create CoT. Some people from CoT (mainly Dr. Tyche) have been involved in the networking of contacts and discussions with NCSoft with the goal a new holding company (which is its own entitity separate from Missing Worlds) to purchase the IP and lease the engine. Once the new-entity-holding-company is set up, Dr. Tyche's involvement is done.
There then exists the possibility that the new holding company, particular APR, may in turn lease the CoT version of UE4 in its efforts to create a new CoH since the resurrected version would essentially be a frozen state of i23. It is then (and a whole bunch of HUGE IFS) that Missing Worlds would directly benefit with collaboration with the holding company.
[hr]I don't use a nerf bat, I have a magic crowbar!
- Combat Mechanic -
[color=#ff0000]Tech Team. [/color]
I have a headache now :-(
0%, this is independent of CoT and MWM.
Technical Director
Read enough Facebook and you have to make Sanity Checks. I guess FB is the Great Old One of the interent these days... - Beamrider
Understandable. But I think I get it now, and basically at this point it's a lot of ifs, ands, and buts that are currently only tangentally related to CoT and MWM. It may one day become a way for CoT to become connected with a CoH IP related project down the road, but it may not, and doesn't directly affect much if anything about CoT at this point.
Am I warm?
FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)
first and foremost, thanks for the response. :)
after reading Nate's post in the other thread, this is how I understand it all:
Holding Company (a third party): purchases the IP from NCSoft and leases the engine to run COH but source code is currently off the table. this holding company can then license/lease out the IP to the various parties attempting to fill the void that CoH left.
CoT: given they are working with Unreal 4, and furthest along in development, would then purchase a licence to use portions of the CoH 'verse. in addition, once they finished getting Unreal4 up and running they would then lease this to APR so they can in turn begin updating CoH to something along the lines of CoH 1.5...and there could even possibly be (in the absolute best case scenario) tie in's between the two games (mean character could leap worlds for various crime busting/committing activities.
Given my understanding, I am still of the mindset that we should leave that bear alone completely. while there are benefits we are still talking about some huge gambles, more so if NCSoft wants to still be involved in some manner, even if slight...they could easily kill off any upstart companies in litigation that they can afford but smaller companies can't. definitely not saying they will but why take the risk?
while there is the potential that CoT will be able to license off its work to APR, its far from a guarantee given they are also but a start up and may still fall apart and unable to realize their dream.
No, I am still thinking CoT should continue to forge its own individual path as it has been. getting CoH tied into it in some financial manner is just asking for trouble.
whatever you all choose to do though, you do have my support and given the huge implications on the news I felt I needed to say something, how clear and understandable it was is up to you to decide. lol. none the less, I aint goin nowhere anytime soon and look forward to the character creator arriving and then on to the day of the grand opening of the City itself! :) as such, I shall retreat to my usual haunt in the media forums. heh
[img]http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/whiteperegrine/84183/69278/69278_original.gif[/img]
+1.... 99% Pessimistic / 1% Optimistic.
I just cant let go the fact that NCSoft shut down a game that was still making a profit. If it was in the RED, OK then... but.. I dont know.... :P
*If* there is a license to MWM involved, it would likely be for things like art assets for reuse.
The chat sound, for example.
Technical Director
Read enough Facebook and you have to make Sanity Checks. I guess FB is the Great Old One of the interent these days... - Beamrider
This is great news not only for MWM and CoT, but for the entire array of spiritual successor projects currently in the works. I say this in terms of business benefit more than the actual use of the IP itself. I think there are some legitimate upsides that could result from this. I don't claim to be an expert on the subject--I'm neither a businessman nor a lawyer--but this is how I see it:
[list]
[*]Since Nathan stated that "[an] arrangement is to be made to license the trademarks to the various Plan Z projects, CoT, Valiance and H&V," this means that the CoH lore that many of us treasure so dearly will be more accessible to the community of games than if any one project claimed the rights to it.
[*]Having the CoH IP available to the various projects will allow for more creative freedom and a lower legal risk if any game happens to reference anything from CoH that NCSoft/Cryptic could otherwise claim copyright infringement on.
[*]The rights to use game assets (sounds, textures, models, etc.) from CoH could significantly reduce development time spent on creating everything from scratch and could allow developers to readily make more options available to players.
[*]It allows the CoH IP ownership and management to be handled independently of games that wish to use it, thus lessening the burden on any individual game project to bear the (assumedly intricate) responsibility of that ownership.
[*]Another point that Nathan makes is that "[by] being its own firm, the licensing company can also pursue other avenues which were unavailable before," thus possibly opening the door for the CoH IP to be licensed to other endeavors such as merchandise or comics (or so I speculate).
[/list]
Overall, I think this is a very benevolent and intelligent way to acquire the CoH IP and make it accessible to the entire CoH community. I applaud Nathan and company for how they've chosen to proceed with the purchase. I have the utmost confidence in their good intentions and ability to conduct business. We're in good hands, folks.
+1000 for Nate. ;)
-1000 for NCSoft. >:(
As my father would cleverly say driving.. "I know what kinda fool is driving on this side, but I dont know what kind of Fool is coming at me from the opposite side". ;)
For those of you whose characters design was in CoH and they want to port a character concept over? The character designs from City of Heroes can't be directly replicated without access to the license.
The key would be to take what we want to re-use and leave what we don't. And SHOULD MWM want to terminate the terms of any agreement with the third company we would need to be willing to lose those things.
Crowd Control Enthusiast
I love the invention in the scenarios Doctor Tyche has presented here. Thank you so much for your efforts, you are very very special.
Most importantly, CoT will launch! Yay! We may also get an I23 CoH to play with. The player base may be scattered sometimes - but we're used to CoH having many "servers". And if folks (and money) get along swimmingly, we can have crossovers. Creative solutions are great at this time.
Hopefully there's some awesome economics going on to ensure MWM has a long future, and some awesome legal process involved to ensure nobody can hold the other pieces to ransom. Meanwhile I'll dream of a ported City of Heroes "alternate universe" (like "Old Galaxy City") for my shiny new titans (men in tites?) to visit.
[size=14]"The illusion which exalts us is dearer to us than ten thousand truths." - Pushkin[/size]
[size=14] "One piece of flair is all I need." - Sister Silicon[/size]
Good lord, this is why I own a business of one person, and for all intents and purposes work for someone else and take jobs on the side. I clearly do not have a mind for this.
Right now, it's mostly sounding like this is going to have nothing whatsoever to do with COT; in which case I'm confused as to how MWM is benefiting. Is it simply a matter of "we'll pay this third party holding company to allow us to make the claim that COT is a direct successor to COH?"
Doctor Tyche replied with the following earlier on this page of the thread:
[hr]
[center]
[size=15][b][i]A cold front is heading toward Titan City[/i][/b][/size]
Ice Man of [url=http://cityoftitans.com/forum/phoenix-rising-initiative-0]The Phoenix Rising Initiative[/url]
[/center]
I, for one, would love to see some of the Lore from COX become part (but not all, and likely not most) of the Lore of COT. Some continuity would be great, although I agree that others who want a clean break and all new Lore have an equally valid perspective.
Post 257 above from Plexius, has some great points, including the third bullet. Licensing some items like the costumes and sounds, presumably speeds up the development of COT and also enhances continuity between the old and new games. Accelerating development of COT is enormously valuable to the members of the community, like me, who are not playing an MMO at present because we just don't see something nearly as fun as COH was.
I suspect that many here do not want to see their money go back to NCSoft, directly or indirectly. This is a very legitimate concern. If the licensing of the IP from COH does go forward as an option, one way to get around this distaste is to have a second kickstarter to raise the licensing money for MWM. Members who cannot stomach seeing any cash go back to NCSoft for any reason under any circumstances can simply refrain. Members who have the ability to hold their noses and still contribute can do so. This would have the advantage of being at least a bit democratic, in the sense that the community members who perceive value in the deal have to pay for it.
Right now, with the little that i know, I would contribute to a licensing kickstarter. Accelerating the launch of COT and also enhancing continuity with COH while reducing the risk of future litigation are all worth it to me. And Dr. Tyche's point of suppressing the further fracturing of the COH community....that's really good too. And if the licensing deal can be structured so that some regular revenue flows to COT for developing the new game, then this is overwhelmingly what I would like to see happen. Re-open Preatoria (even better if it were on Unreal 4) or Cimerora and we will have a place to congregate while the real game (COT) is a-building...
To again be perfectly clear I don't fault anything MWM is trying to do for the sake of making CoT as great as it can be. I merely question the need for any direct business involvement with NCsoft (or a holding company related to it) and would only stress that MWM should get as much benefit from such a dubious relationship as possible.
To paraphrase from a famous Dire Straits song I don't really want to see NCsoft get away with getting "money for nothing and their chicks for free" based on the hard work of other third party companies like MWM who are doing more to maintain the value of their rotting CoH IP than they've bothered to do in the last two years. Remember if it wasn't for what people like MWM are doing right now then CoH would literally have NO value as a dead IP and NCsoft should be humbly grateful for that and any money they manage to glean out from us.
I'm simply not entirely sure it's worth paying for these "things" we have lost when we have the potential to enjoy much better equivalents in a CoT that require no direct licensing "entanglements" to NCsoft.
We are already getting new body models with vastly improved costuming graphics and details with CoT - is it not enough to reimagine an old costume design in the new environment or do you really need something to look pixel-for-pixel identical to something that was based in 2004 graphics technology? Frankly as far as I'm concerned NCsoft can keep their preciously dated "IP content" as far as exact costume items go.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
The plan is to purchase the CoH IP and put it into the hands of a holding company / trust which would license it to others. NCSoft's involvement would end with the sale. The only ongoing deal with NCSoft would be between them and that same company/trust for the engine to run zCoH (at I23). As I understand it, the most direct benefit to MWM would be to lift the spectre of a lawsuit by NCSoft. In any case, MWM's involvement would be with the holding company/trust rather than with NCSoft.
That is my understanding of the situation. With luck, it addresses some of Lothic's concerns regarding MWM and NCSoft.
- - - - -
[font=Pristina][size=18][b]Hail Beard![/b][/size][/font]
Support [url=http://cityoftitans.com/comment/52149#comment-52149]trap clowns[/url] for CoT!
I understand that there would be an "indirection" accomplished with the holding company concept and I'm willing to accept that there may in fact be tangible benefits for MWM with this arrangment. I agree the idea that MWM may have some legal protections from lawsuits might be the most vauable advantage to this in the long run.
Again I'm simply stressing that companies like MWM need to get as much as possible out of any deal (direct or indirect) with NCsoft. I actaully don't see the need to "borrow" as much CoH lore as possible and don't think that having access to the IP would be as helpful for accelerating the completion of CoT as others do. Apples and Oranges people - the new software tech of today is going to allow (and effectively require) for things to be done in completely different ways to how CoH did things. Even if those aspects would be helpful in the short term I don't favor the idea that CoT would be forever "enthralled" to those elements and have to worry about some third party having the rights to yank on those hooks at any time in the future.
I suppose you could say I favor the "clean break" approach for CoT and the desire to avoid as many third party entanglements as possible. Yes we will all know that CoT had its "spiritual origins" in CoH but this'll be our chance to build beyond that and have something uniquely new and better.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
Yup, I'm with you on that. I see no real benefit for CoT in trying to incorporate CoH lore.[color=red]*[/color] If it is of use for the avatar builder to have access to the CoH costume designs, then great. Past that, I'm all in favor for the two being separate and distinct entities. By the time the deal goes through it would likely require some significant shoehorning to insert CoH lore into CoT, in any case.
[br]
[color=red]*[/color] If APR and CoT eventually want to have some kind of cross-over event, awesome. However, I certainly don't want to see Hamidon skulking about Titan City.
- - - - -
[font=Pristina][size=18][b]Hail Beard![/b][/size][/font]
Support [url=http://cityoftitans.com/comment/52149#comment-52149]trap clowns[/url] for CoT!
If COX does come back I would try it out again but I have invested in the new game development here and would play this on. I do not see this as an either/or situation. I would try them both at the same time to compare them and then decide which one was the most appealing.
Nijanus
I see no problem with the leasing of resources. As far as I understand it that is largely the intention...to use sound, costume ect files...not transport foes or lore into CoT.
But even if lore was used....why not. I mean City of Heroes was just that...a city....why cant the same world be used as a setting. We might see Skulls and Hellions trying to gain a foot hold in CoT but there would still be new street level gangs for example. Maybe I am just overly optimistic but I think having CoHs IP to draw on will help more than it hurts.
Still I worry that any leasing deal would have to be carefully worked. I would hate to see a third party decide HOW to use the IP or resources...in essence influencing the growth of CoT. Worse yet I would hate to see that lease ever end and have the game scrambling to recover from losing it.
I don't have a problem with mixing CoH's "peanut butter" flavored lore in with CoT's "chocolate" lore from a roleplaying and/or "game universe" point of view. My main concerns involve the co-mingling of the two on a higher-level IP basis. I also have doubts that directly porting data/code from CoH to CoT would actually be -that- helpful (due to software technology differences spanning 10+ years) but I really only consider that a secondary concern to the IP issues.
As you yourself imply it might simply be better in the long run if MWM sticks to its original plan of creating as much of its own unique lore/story to remain as legally independent from CoH's IP as possible.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
I am very much in favor of original lore. All I was saying is that the two cities could very well share the same world and both have vastly different lore. The addition of some of CoH lore could offer a nostalgic element and introduce new storylines for players (helping or stopping the Tsoo worm its way into CoT for example).
Sound editing is a much more involved process than many think. This is why there are entire libraries of sounds that people can buy and edit as they need. The CoH sound files could be updated with a lot less effort than it would take to edit or manufacture new sounds. We all have heard of the Wilhelm scream ....this was originally used way back in the early 50s and is still being used today...
Texture files are not always model specific and I am not sure but I would assume the game will use bmp maps and such....all of which can be taken from CoH.
Costume parts is something else as well... even if CoT had to create every texture file for new costume parts they may wish to include updated versions of the ones in CoH. With IP leasing there is not issue in doing so...without leasing it can be tricky.
That being said...I do agree that any leasing deal would need to be carefully worded.
Pages