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Discuss: Where We Stand The Avatar Builder

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Atama
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I think a mix works. Arm

I think a mix works. Arm length, leg length, overall height, waist and chest size, and so on. Cheekbone height, eye distance, muscle tone, those probably need a more arbitrary measurement.

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Anyone asked for glowy bits

Anyone asked for glowy bits to be combat only?

One step better, second set of slider positions for combat?

E.g. glows more intense during combat, muscles get bigger, arms get longer.


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avelworldcreator wrote:
avelworldcreator wrote:

Actually we do have an internal scale for characters and objects. That's how we were able to create that "police lineup" scale previously. There is a reference object we can measure against if we need to. The idea of giving a given slider some units of measure other than sticking with dimensionless values is a good one. I'll pass this on for consideration.

Real numbers? That'd be my preference. Now I'm sure people will argue metric versus imperial.

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Cobalt Azurean wrote:
Cobalt Azurean wrote:
avelworldcreator wrote:

Actually we do have an internal scale for characters and objects. That's how we were able to create that "police lineup" scale previously. There is a reference object we can measure against if we need to. The idea of giving a given slider some units of measure other than sticking with dimensionless values is a good one. I'll pass this on for consideration.

Real numbers? That'd be my preference. Now I'm sure people will argue metric versus imperial.

What's real about it? That's my entire point about saying that ANY number scale used for sliders in ANY game is totally arbitrary. There's nothing "real" about any of it. Let me try to explain since for some reason this point is not obvious to people here.

As has been said the Devs have in fact come up with an "internal scale" for things. What does that mean you ask? That means that either based on what the Unreal Engine has already provided or based on what the Devs themselves have decided they've established an internal measurement system where all the VIRTUAL lengths of things are measured against each other. It's not in "inches" or "centimeters" or "cubits" or any other "real" system you would recognize because again its ALL VIRTUAL GRAPHICS, nothing is REAL about it.

So again what does all that mean for us players? It means that when they ARBITRARYLY decide on a way to translate the values of that internal scale to numbers that players might see on a GUI they have many ways they could do it. Now right off the bat if they choose to try to covert things into a "pseudo-real" scale (something that for example might LOOK like feet and inches to you) then they are already going to have to account for BOTH imperial and metric. You know as well as I do that people will whine if it's only one or the other. So instantly you're asking the Devs to do TWICE the work here. Then there's the question of how fine a detail do you want these pseudo-real scales to be? Do you want it down to just inches, or say half-inches or even to 1/8 or 1/16 of an inch per tick mark? Again whatever they do here will likely piss off someone because it'll be too much or too little.

No, frankly all of that is a total waste of time and would be effectively pointless in practical terms. Let's let the Devs stick with simple positive integers for ALL slider scales (because again the values used are meaninglessly arbitrary anyway) and for the only characteristic where associating it with something like a "real measurement" system makes any sense (which is character height BTW) let's just use the clever idea of a "police lineup scale" printed on the back wall of the character creator so that you can see how tall your character is in feet, centimeters, cubits or whatever makes you happy.

Let's stop giving our Devs extra work to do here. They are apparently having a hard enough time finishing up this creator without having to worry about trying to make their slider scales artificially match with some kind of real world system. If this issue is really going to bother some people enough maybe they can do like they're going to with just about everything else and make what you're asking for here an "optional post launch update".

EDIT: I corrected the spelling of the word ARBITRARYLY because someone decided to be a "spelling Nazi" about it.

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Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:
Cobalt Azurean wrote:
avelworldcreator wrote:

Actually we do have an internal scale for characters and objects. That's how we were able to create that "police lineup" scale previously. There is a reference object we can measure against if we need to. The idea of giving a given slider some units of measure other than sticking with dimensionless values is a good one. I'll pass this on for consideration.

Real numbers? That'd be my preference. Now I'm sure people will argue metric versus imperial.

ARIBTRARYLY

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Cobalt Azurean wrote:
Cobalt Azurean wrote:
Lothic wrote:
Cobalt Azurean wrote:
avelworldcreator wrote:

Actually we do have an internal scale for characters and objects. That's how we were able to create that "police lineup" scale previously. There is a reference object we can measure against if we need to. The idea of giving a given slider some units of measure other than sticking with dimensionless values is a good one. I'll pass this on for consideration.

Real numbers? That'd be my preference. Now I'm sure people will argue metric versus imperial.

ARIBTRARYLY

So your only counter to my entire post is harping on a spelling error? *sigh*

Gods if you did that to Tannim you'd have to make fun of every third word he posts here...

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Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:
Cobalt Azurean wrote:
Lothic wrote:
Cobalt Azurean wrote:
avelworldcreator wrote:

Actually we do have an internal scale for characters and objects. That's how we were able to create that "police lineup" scale previously. There is a reference object we can measure against if we need to. The idea of giving a given slider some units of measure other than sticking with dimensionless values is a good one. I'll pass this on for consideration.

Real numbers? That'd be my preference. Now I'm sure people will argue metric versus imperial.

ARIBTRARYLY

So your only counter to my entire post is harping on a spelling error? *sigh*

Gods if you did that to Tannim you'd have to make fun of every third word he posts here...

I'm not going to argue with you. I don't agree with you, period. And no amount of repetitive posting of the same drivel over and over, and I'll say it, over again whilst "subtly" calling into question everyone's intelligence that doesn't agree with you won't change that. Additionally, making a dig at a dev isn't endearing you to anyone. They are at least contributing positively to the project. Yes, I'm inferring that you do not contribute positively. At least when I post, I don't leave room for argument about how I feel about something. And yes, that would be another inference that the manner in which you post rarely make direct attacks as that would be against the rules that could get you into trouble but you aren't fooling anyone.

And I'm well aware that this post likely constitutes a direct attack on a forum poster and will get me into trouble, but honestly I'm tired of passively encouraging your behavior by not saying something. That being said, I won't be baited by you any further and I look forward to you being underway again.

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Cobalt Azurean wrote:
Cobalt Azurean wrote:
Lothic wrote:
Cobalt Azurean wrote:
Lothic wrote:
Cobalt Azurean wrote:
avelworldcreator wrote:

Actually we do have an internal scale for characters and objects. That's how we were able to create that "police lineup" scale previously. There is a reference object we can measure against if we need to. The idea of giving a given slider some units of measure other than sticking with dimensionless values is a good one. I'll pass this on for consideration.

Real numbers? That'd be my preference. Now I'm sure people will argue metric versus imperial.

ARIBTRARYLY

So your only counter to my entire post is harping on a spelling error? *sigh*

Gods if you did that to Tannim you'd have to make fun of every third word he posts here...

I'm not going to argue with you. I don't agree with you, period. And no amount of repetitive posting of the same drivel over and over, and I'll say it, over again whilst "subtly" calling into question everyone's intelligence that doesn't agree with you won't change that. Additionally, making a dig at a dev isn't endearing you to anyone. They are at least contributing positively to the project. Yes, I'm inferring that you do not contribute positively. At least when I post, I don't leave room for argument about how I feel about something. And yes, that would be another inference that the manner in which you post rarely make direct attacks as that would be against the rules that could get you into trouble but you aren't fooling anyone.

And I'm well aware that this post likely constitutes a direct attack on a forum poster and will get me into trouble, but honestly I'm tired of passively encouraging your behavior by not saying something. That being said, I won't be baited by you any further and I look forward to you being underway again.

For what it's worth I wasn't "questioning your intelligence". I was just pointing out your suggestion here would simply cause more work for the Devs than likely necessary at this point.

As for the rest of the personal attack against me goes I'll let the Devs decide on that one way or another. I couldn't care less either way.

P.S. You can actually thank the Navy for labeling this website as "Banned as Suspicious" for why I usually can't post while I'm underway. Amazingly enough I didn't even have anything to do with that. While I'm out there I can get to all sorts of other game related sites (including even MWM's facebook for instance) so it is what it is.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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I'm...going to keep this

I'm...going to keep this handy ;p


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Cobalt Azurean wrote:
Cobalt Azurean wrote:
Lothic wrote:
Cobalt Azurean wrote:
Lothic wrote:
Cobalt Azurean wrote:
avelworldcreator wrote:

Actually we do have an internal scale for characters and objects. That's how we were able to create that "police lineup" scale previously. There is a reference object we can measure against if we need to. The idea of giving a given slider some units of measure other than sticking with dimensionless values is a good one. I'll pass this on for consideration.

Real numbers? That'd be my preference. Now I'm sure people will argue metric versus imperial.

ARIBTRARYLY

So your only counter to my entire post is harping on a spelling error? *sigh*

Gods if you did that to Tannim you'd have to make fun of every third word he posts here...

I'm not going to argue with you. I don't agree with you, period. And no amount of repetitive posting of the same drivel over and over, and I'll say it, over again whilst "subtly" calling into question everyone's intelligence that doesn't agree with you won't change that. Additionally, making a dig at a dev isn't endearing you to anyone. They are at least contributing positively to the project. Yes, I'm inferring that you do not contribute positively. At least when I post, I don't leave room for argument about how I feel about something. And yes, that would be another inference that the manner in which you post rarely make direct attacks as that would be against the rules that could get you into trouble but you aren't fooling anyone.

And I'm well aware that this post likely constitutes a direct attack on a forum poster and will get me into trouble, but honestly I'm tired of passively encouraging your behavior by not saying something. That being said, I won't be baited by you any further and I look forward to you being underway again.

That was really uncalled for. Passively encouraging? thats what you try to use as an excuse to censor some one else? lame.Please do the rest of us a favor and attempt to keep the discussion civil. I am not one to discuss the details of sliders, I would rather just use them, but as my mother was fond of telling me, :if you dont have something nice to say, dont say anything". please try and follow that sage advice.

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I don’t have anything nice to

I don’t have anything nice to say so WHARRGARBL.

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Atama wrote:
Atama wrote:

I don’t have anything nice to say so WHARRGARBL.

I love that picture, its the kind of thing my lab would do.

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ivanhedgehog wrote:
ivanhedgehog wrote:

I love that picture, it's the kind of thing my lab would do.

*grin* My mind is boggling over the image of a bunch of scientists in lab coats, playing in the sprinklers.

Yes, I know that Labradors and other 'water-dogs' think getting wet is Fun and something to be shared.

Be Well!
WHARRGARBL!
Fireheart

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ivanhedgehog][quote=Cobalt
Lothic wrote:

Gods if you did that to Tannim you'd have to make fun of every third word he posts here...

ivanhedgehog wrote:

...but as my mother was fond of telling me, :if you dont have something nice to say, dont say anything". please try and follow that sage advice.

FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)

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Empyrean wrote:
Empyrean wrote:
Lothic wrote:

Gods if you did that to Tannim you'd have to make fun of every third word he posts here...

ivanhedgehog wrote:

...but as my mother was fond of telling me, :if you dont have something nice to say, dont say anything". please try and follow that sage advice.

That's exactly why I NEVER bother to make fun of Tannim for the way he posts. It would be rude. Unfortunately I had to "mention" the thing I don't normally do in order to point out why I don't normally do it. Ironic yes? C'est la vie.

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I understand everything

I understand everything Tannim posts, and we get more solid info of the game from Tannim than anyone, so I forgive a whole heck of a lot. :)

Not that there’s much to “forgive”, again it’s totally legible.

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Atama wrote:
Atama wrote:

I understand everything Tannim posts, and we get more solid info of the game from Tannim than anyone, so I forgive a whole heck of a lot. :)

Not that there’s much to “forgive”, again it’s totally legible.

Well calling it "totally legible" is generous. I'll say it's "generally decipherable" and leave it at that. The fact that Tannim still tries to contribute here despite the "downsides" of doing that on a phone earns him plenty of brownie points from me regardless. That's why as a general policy I don't rag on him (or ANYONE ELSE) for trivial spelling/grammar typos in a forum like this.

Again the only reason I specifically mentioned it this ONE SINGLE time is to drive home the point how silly/crappy it is to do to other posters. The mere fact that you guys are coming down on me for indirectly calling Tannim out proves my point about this.

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Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:

Again the only reason I specifically mentioned it this ONE SINGLE time is to drive home the point how silly/crappy it is to do to other posters. The mere fact that you guys are coming down on me for indirectly calling Tannim out proves my point about this.

Agreed, if you attack people for spelling/grammar mistakes you’re just being a jerk. Nobody’s perfect, and some people don’t have English as a native language, some people have disabilities that inhibit communication, some people have technical issues. And some people just have a simple typo they missed. If you need to attack someone’s communication skills in an attempt to discredit their ideas or opinions that’s just sad.

I’ve volunteered as an admin at Wikipedia for many years and you have to interact with people from all over the world, with all kinds of backgrounds and challenges. If you’re going to snipe at people for simple mistakes you’re not interested in a real discussion.

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All I can say on this

All I can say on this conversation so far is:
WHARRGARBL

-----------

Senior Developer/Project Manager/Co-Founder... and then some.

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Hey. I’m sorry for my fat

Hey. I’m sorry for my fat-fingers when I’m on mobile. I have made an effort to improve and take more time when posting.


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Tannim222 wrote:
Tannim222 wrote:

Hey. I’m sorry for my fat-fingers when I’m on mobile. I have made an effort to improve and take more time when posting.

Don't be hard on yourself, I can generally understand, and when not, I'll simply ask.


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Tannim222 wrote:
Tannim222 wrote:

Hey. I’m sorry for my fat-fingers when I’m on mobile. I have made an effort to improve and take more time when posting.

I assume you have red crowbars for hands which means your efforts so far have been exemplary.

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Atama wrote:
Atama wrote:
Tannim222 wrote:

Hey. I’m sorry for my fat-fingers when I’m on mobile. I have made an effort to improve and take more time when posting.

I assume you have red crowbars for hands which means your efforts so far have been exemplary.

TannimCrowbarHands? :P

I do stuff like type "jsut" instead of "just" all the time and I have learned to live with it.

"Just, well, update your kickstarter email addresses, okay? Make sure they're current?" - warcabbit

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Great progress!! Looking

Great progress!! Looking forward to playing, cant wait.

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It's cool Tannim. Most of us

It's cool Tannim. Most of us are aware of tour mobile typing habits. In fact I have the same one. I us the suggested spellings and spell checker all the time.
In point of fact I'm on my phone now because Windows needs to dominate my PC for its latest update.

.

.

I hate Microsh*t some days.

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Tannim222 wrote:
Tannim222 wrote:

Hey. I’m sorry for my fat-fingers when I’m on mobile. I have made an effort to improve and take more time when posting.

desviper wrote:

Don't be hard on yourself, I can generally understand, and when not, I'll simply ask.

Atama wrote:

I assume you have red crowbars for hands which means your efforts so far have been exemplary.

Planet10 wrote:

TannimCrowbarHands? :P

I do stuff like type "jsut" instead of "just" all the time and I have learned to live with it.

StellarAgent wrote:

It's cool Tannim. Most of us are aware of tour mobile typing habits. In fact I have the same one. I us the suggested spellings and spell checker all the time.

Again it's basically for ALL of the these reasons that I normally don't call ANYONE out just for simple spelling/grammar typos. It's a childish way to react to someone because ultimately we ALL make mistakes like that and it wouldn't really help if we all started to act as spelling Nazis against each other. Sadly I used Tannim as the quintessential example of this because even though we all love him he is likely our, uhm, most well known example of this phenomena. ;)

Also while the "WHARRGARBL" thing is kind of funny it's also a childish reaction to an otherwise serious discussion. Just saying. Don't worry, I'll power through it regardless. ;)

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:

Again it's basically for ALL of the these reasons that I normally don't call ANYONE out just for simple spelling/grammar typos. It's a childish way to react to someone because ultimately we ALL make mistakes like that and it wouldn't really help if we all started to act as spelling Nazis against each other. Sadly I used Tannim as the quintessential example of this because even though we all love him he is likely our, uhm, most well known example of this phenomena. ;)

Also while the "WHARRGARBL" thing is kind of funny it's also a childish reaction to an otherwise serious discussion. Just saying. Don't worry, I'll power through it regardless. ;)

I think you made that point clear about a half dozen times... Nothing you quoted had anything to do with you. Bringing the thread back around to yourself isn’t exactly “powering through”.

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Atama wrote:
Atama wrote:
Lothic wrote:

Again it's basically for ALL of the these reasons that I normally don't call ANYONE out just for simple spelling/grammar typos. It's a childish way to react to someone because ultimately we ALL make mistakes like that and it wouldn't really help if we all started to act as spelling Nazis against each other. Sadly I used Tannim as the quintessential example of this because even though we all love him he is likely our, uhm, most well known example of this phenomena. ;)

Also while the "WHARRGARBL" thing is kind of funny it's also a childish reaction to an otherwise serious discussion. Just saying. Don't worry, I'll power through it regardless. ;)

I think you made that point clear about a half dozen times... Nothing you quoted had anything to do with you. Bringing the thread back around to yourself isn’t exactly “powering through”.

Since I brought up Tannim he's basically ALL the last few posts have been talking about so I'd beg to differ about my involvement. Apparently everyone else was focusing in on this current thread-derail so I just joined in. Perhaps I'm simply becoming reflexively defensive based on all the "love" and "WHARRGARBL" I've received here lately. ;)

Feel free to talk about anything else you guys want to talk about instead...

For instance I asked a question of the Devs a week ago about how they are planning to handle "skin tone colors" in CoT. I've actually asked that question several times over the years so sooner or later I figure someone will have that issue nailed down implementation-wise.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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I’m curious about skin tones

I’m curious about skin tones too. Are there measures against making someone look naked? Or does it matter? If I’m making a metal robot he shouldn’t need pants.

IMAGE(http://www.timgoldman.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/ROTW_Pantsbot.jpg)

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Atama wrote:
Atama wrote:

I’m curious about skin tones too. Are there measures against making someone look naked? Or does it matter? If I’m making a metal robot he shouldn’t need pants.

Well it was confirmed (maybe even in this thread, can't remember ATM) that they are going to allow things like a "spandex biker shorts" type costume item to have all sorts of textures including for example say a metallic metal texture. This would allow you to create a dude with the "metallic skin texture" to wear nothing but those biker shorts (again with the same metallic metal texture on them) and get away with effectively looking "naked". This should allow people to create characters like these if desired:

The reason this would be allowed is that the metallic metal texture in question is not going to be considered "bare skin" as far as nakedness is concerned. The key is that they will not be allowing a "human skin" texture to be applied to something like those biker shorts. This was something that could never be handled well in CoH because "textures" in general were baked-in and could not be selected/modified by the player.

While that was an important issue the related one I was talking about is the "skin color palette" that CoH employed to primarily prevent "naked" characters. In that case what the CoH Devs chose to do is to prevent players from using any kind of brown/beige/tan type "skin" color on any costume items. This strictly stopped people from putting say a tan skin-like color on bikini bottoms that exactly matched their skin color to "simulate" nakedness.

The obvious major downside of preventing players from using brown/beige/tan colors on their costume items was that it PREVENTED players from using brown/beige/tan colors on their costume items. That was a big problem for people who legitimately wanted to use those colors without any intent/desire to simulate nakedness.

Thus my original question is what the Devs of CoT intend to do about this. Will we get to use the brown/beige/tan colors on costume items or not?

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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desviper wrote:
desviper wrote:

You know if you overuse that meme you'll start to look like the stupid one around here. Of course I'm already using the qualifier "start to look stupid" very loosely. ;)

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5 paragraphs, that's a small

5 paragraphs, that's a small essay :p


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desviper wrote:
desviper wrote:

5 paragraphs, that's a small essay :p

What if it was done in comic book panels, would that be easier to read? The post had pictures already.

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Atama wrote:
Atama wrote:
desviper wrote:

5 paragraphs, that's a small essay :p

What if it was done in comic book panels, would that be easier to read? The post had pictures already.

I've only got so much free time and I already spend too much on these forums :p


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desviper wrote:
desviper wrote:
Atama wrote:
desviper wrote:

5 paragraphs, that's a small essay :p

What if it was done in comic book panels, would that be easier to read? The post had pictures already.

I've only got so much free time and I already spend too much on these forums :p

Now that was funny. Thanks, I needed a good laugh. :)

If you don't have like 15-20 seconds to spare to read something like that then don't read it. I'm not going to start writing in "tweets" just to satisfy you ADHD millennial types. ;)

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Is it possible to make the

Is it possible to make the glowing tron lines pulsate or flash on and off in some sort of pattern, like my Razer keyboard and mouse backlights do? (and yes, they're set to green :D)

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Not sure about the pulsating

Not sure about the pulsating thing. It's POSSIBLE to make such a material but I'd have to ask around about that.

Since our textures should prevent "naked toons" I think all the colors should be available for everything. Not 100% on that but I think that's the case.

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avelworldcreator wrote:
avelworldcreator wrote:

Since our textures should prevent "naked toons" I think all the colors should be available for everything. Not 100% on that but I think that's the case.

I was hoping that would be the answer.

Again it's the trade-off between the "naked toon" phenomena (which has been around in games like this for decades) and the ability to use an entire class of colors for costume items. Hopefully you'll decide that your ability to texture items properly will be enough of a "padlock" to address the naked toon issue.

Ideally you won't even have to bother with an entire secondary "skin color palette" like CoH did.

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On the pulse, not this pass.

On the pulse, not this pass. Maybe when we get the auras fully operation. I know it's a material function that's readily available. We'd have to make versons of that material with the pulse. For the record glowing materials for performance reasons are limited to only the material's trim. Maybe in the future we can do more.

For the record I'd like a skin palette, hair palette, eye palette. Same basic palette as the costume but with some extra colors that match natural human color ranges. Because of the limited contexts I might be able to argue for such. Wish me well.

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avelworldcreator wrote:
avelworldcreator wrote:

For the record I'd like a skin palette, hair palette, eye palette. Same basic palette as the costume but with some extra colors that match natural human color ranges. Because of the limited contexts I might be able to argue for such. Wish me well.

Fair enough. I'm not actually "anti extra color palette" here. Having extra palettes for "cosmetic benefits" sounds cool. I'm just saying you shouldn't need to have an extra one just to address the "naked toon" issue. Let the textures handle that automagically.

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(No subject)

Here's a Travel Power animation you might want to use that would be linked to a specific power and/or a costume change emote.

.

Animation time doesn't need to be that long, but you get the idea ...


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Wow 134 posts since I last

Wow 134 posts since I last checked in here. A lot has happened. I realize some of these discussions have ended but I'd like to chime in with my two cents.

Sliders. Numbers. I think it's good to have a reference number. I think that the scale doesn't have to be consistent. I don't think it makes a lot of sense to have 100 variations for nose width or 10 for leg length. If a slider needs 50 ticks then it should have 50 ticks. If it only needs 10 ticks to be effective, then it only needs 10 ticks. Finally, I don't think that the center is necessarily "normal" or "average" Consider the bicep size of an average person. Someone malnourished. And a roided up body builder. The malnourished arm and the average arm are not as different these would be 0 and 3 while the roided out arm would be 10. I think it would be best to figure out what the maximum and minimums are that wont break everything and then decide where "average" is and set that as default. Personally I usually grab each slider in turn and jerk it to min and max and then decide where I want my setting to be.

Colors and palette. I think there should be a biased palette for each major section with all colors available. So for things like "hair" you'd have typical hair colors pushed towards the top of the palette, but if you scroll down then you still have all the options. Similarly when setting skin color, skin tones at the top and the rest of the colors down below. We talked about giving each color a number or reference for sharing costume information shifting the palette around for key areas like hair and skin could cause some issues since your consistency in the palette is lost. It's not a perfect answer. Just some spit balling. The important preference I have here is that all colors be available everywhere.

That's all for now.

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Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:
avelworldcreator wrote:

For the record I'd like a skin palette, hair palette, eye palette. Same basic palette as the costume but with some extra colors that match natural human color ranges. Because of the limited contexts I might be able to argue for such. Wish me well.

Fair enough. I'm not actually "anti extra color palette" here. Having extra palettes for "cosmetic benefits" sounds cool. I'm just saying you shouldn't need to have an extra one just to address the "naked toon" issue. Let the textures handle that automagically.

Yeah I think that's the thing with 2004 graphics vs 2019 graphics, kinda hard to make spandex look naked in UE4.


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Lothic
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Redlynne wrote:
Redlynne wrote:

Here's a Travel Power animation you might want to use that would be linked to a specific power and/or a costume change emote.

.

Animation time doesn't need to be that long, but you get the idea ...

They need to link these type of effects to a "long range teleport" power. ;)

But yeah using these as costume change emotes they'd have a bunch of examples like this to choose from. Even non Star Trek sci-fi shows have examples of "teleport beam" effects they could borrow for CoT for really all sorts of uses.

As a side note I'm looking forward to all the different costume change emotes this game could have. Even CoH ended up with around 50 to choose from. Of course there's really only ONE costume change emote they MUST have in CoT or else the game will suffer an epic fail:

P.S. Ironically after finishing this post I realized that both the Star Trek transporter and Wonder Woman's spin were both added to their respective shows as a cost/time savings gimmick for TV purposes. The whole "beaming down to a planet" thing was just to save the cost of showing them flying down in a shuttle craft every week and the Wonder Woman spin thing was added just as a quick trick to "explain" how she could change her costume in a few seconds. She never actually did the "spin" thing in the comics (at least until -after- the TV show).

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Grimfox wrote:
Grimfox wrote:

Sliders. Numbers. I think it's good to have a reference number. I think that the scale doesn't have to be consistent. I don't think it makes a lot of sense to have 100 variations for nose width or 10 for leg length. If a slider needs 50 ticks then it should have 50 ticks. If it only needs 10 ticks to be effective, then it only needs 10 ticks. Finally, I don't think that the center is necessarily "normal" or "average" Consider the bicep size of an average person. Someone malnourished. And a roided up body builder. The malnourished arm and the average arm are not as different these would be 0 and 3 while the roided out arm would be 10. I think it would be best to figure out what the maximum and minimums are that wont break everything and then decide where "average" is and set that as default. Personally I usually grab each slider in turn and jerk it to min and max and then decide where I want my setting to be.

Colors and palette. I think there should be a biased palette for each major section with all colors available. So for things like "hair" you'd have typical hair colors pushed towards the top of the palette, but if you scroll down then you still have all the options. Similarly when setting skin color, skin tones at the top and the rest of the colors down below. We talked about giving each color a number or reference for sharing costume information shifting the palette around for key areas like hair and skin could cause some issues since your consistency in the palette is lost. It's not a perfect answer. Just some spit balling. The important preference I have here is that all colors be available everywhere.

That's all for now.

I think these are good summaries of both topics. I think a key point that relates both subjects is the fact that the "numbers" involved don't (and probably shouldn't) intrinsically mean anything. As I've said before they are completely arbitrary and only serve to label one setting from another. They don't represent "lengths of measurement" or "RGB values" or anything else. They are just a way to tell "arm slider tick setting number 4" from "arm slider tick setting number 5".

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Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:

I think a key point that relates both subjects is the fact that the "numbers" involved don't (and probably shouldn't) intrinsically mean anything. As I've said before they are completely arbitrary and only serve to label one setting from another. They don't represent "lengths of measurement" or "RGB values" or anything else. They are just a way to tell "arm slider tick setting number 4" from "arm slider tick setting number 5".

The numbers don't need in intrinsically mean anything scale related, but the are absolutely necessary for .txt file exports as well as posting costume builds on forums to explain how you've achieved certain combinations which can then be replicated (and/or experimented with) by others. If you want someone else (anyone else) to be able to copy what you've done, you're going to want to have numeric values on display that you can verify so you know you've got the sliders in identical positions for repeatable Stuffs™. Note that this facility to be able to copy+edit costume settings would be absolutely critical when making variations on a thematic for a single character when copying settings from one costume slot to another on the same character, so you don't wind up with all kinds of "settings drift" when eyeballing things when you have no numbers to reference.


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Concrete values for various

Concrete values for various slider-settings and other settings are useful for copying costumes so that all group-mates may look alike, or so that a 'good face' can be reused, as well.

Be Well!
Fireheart

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Redlynne][quote=Lothic wrote:
Redlynne wrote:
Lothic wrote:

I think a key point that relates both subjects is the fact that the "numbers" involved don't (and probably shouldn't) intrinsically mean anything. As I've said before they are completely arbitrary and only serve to label one setting from another. They don't represent "lengths of measurement" or "RGB values" or anything else. They are just a way to tell "arm slider tick setting number 4" from "arm slider tick setting number 5".

The numbers don't need in intrinsically mean anything scale related, but the are absolutely necessary for .txt file exports as well as posting costume builds on forums to explain how you've achieved certain combinations which can then be replicated (and/or experimented with) by others. If you want someone else (anyone else) to be able to copy what you've done, you're going to want to have numeric values on display that you can verify so you know you've got the sliders in identical positions for repeatable Stuffs™.

Fireheart wrote:

Concrete values for various slider-settings and other settings are useful for copying costumes so that all group-mates may look alike, or so that a 'good face' can be reused, as well.

Yes, that's the ONLY POINT for there to be "visible numbers" for these sliders in the first place. They aren't there to "pretend" to be feet and inches; as I very strongly implied they are primarily there so players can arbitrarily IDENTIFY any one slider setting from another for the purposes that you suggest here.

Redlynne wrote:

Note that this facility to be able to copy+edit costume settings would be absolutely critical when making variations on a thematic for a single character when copying settings from one costume slot to another on the same character, so you don't wind up with all kinds of "settings drift" when eyeballing things when you have no numbers to reference.

Also being able to save/load "costume" data independently from "body slider" data is also critical to doing the kinds of things you mention here. The Devs have confirmed (again I believe earlier in this thread) that they intend to implement save/load features for both kinds of data in CoT.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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Very late to the party here,

Very late to the party here, I know. Everything looks cool...can't wait to play around with it.

But please please PLEASE, STOP using the term "Soon". Looking at you devs. Doctor Tyche said the chargen would be in our hands "Soon" in April 2017. Soon has ceased to have any relevant time meaning. Just say "Not yet" or something to that affect.

It's only the use of that word that bugs me. I don't care how long the game takes, I'm patient and have plenty to keep me occupied. It's just that word...please stop using it.

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Weylor wrote:
Weylor wrote:

Very late to the party here, I know. Everything looks cool...can't wait to play around with it.

But please please PLEASE, STOP using the term "Soon". Looking at you devs. Doctor Tyche said the chargen would be in our hands "Soon" in April 2017. Soon has ceased to have any relevant time meaning. Just say "Not yet" or something to that affect.

It's only the use of that word that bugs me. I don't care how long the game takes, I'm patient and have plenty to keep me occupied. It's just that word...please stop using it.

It's actually a pretty well known joke that software Devs (of any type) like to use the word "soon" very loosely. In fact you'll sometimes see it mockingly written like this: Soon™ to add extra emphasis to the fact that the word is being heavily fudged.

The best working Devspeak definition of Soon™ is that it usually indicates a period of time between next Tuesday and the Heat Death of the Universe. ;)

P.S. In all seriousness it is in fact annoying when Devs use the word "soon" too often, especially when they actually know it will not be anytime "soon" at all. But again it's become such a common joke that I usually just reflexively substitute the phrase "we have no bleeping idea when it'll happen" whenever any Dev-type person uses it.

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Soon™ my work will be done

Soon™ my work will be done and everything will be ending.
When will it happen, you ask? I can assure you, Soon™!

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They always say "Soon". Well

They always say "Soon". Well Soonsquid isnt having it!

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#bummer, soonsquid

#bummer, soonsquid


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SoonSquid is making things

SoonSquid is making things happen. Sooner! Be like SoonSquid. Make things happen! Volunteer Today!

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Now I want a character named

Now I want a character named SoonSquid.

Didn't we see a tentacle face at some point?

Hi. I'm Hope.

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We did, in the video of the

We did, in the video of the pax west :) when they show some faces and eyes, there was, in a croner of the video, a face with tentacles instead of having a mouth
see here : https://youtu.be/57L8-52BBo8?t=350


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It's an illithid that blows

It's an illithid that blows everyone's mind away. ^_^

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Foradain wrote:
Foradain wrote:

It's an illithid that blows everyone's mind away. ^_^

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Foradain wrote:
Foradain wrote:

It's an illithid that blows everyone's mind away. ^_^

It just flays them lightly.

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Looks great!

Looks great!

The only nitpick I have is that the default male hand scaling seems a bit... off. Like, the hands seem a bit small & slender, and it only becomes more pronounced as you increase the bulk slider, so that the hands actually look comically tiny in comparison to the rest of the character.

Otherwise, this looks fantastic & I can't wait to play with it!

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Nothing constructive to add,

Nothing constructive to add, just a thanks for the vid and a wow, looks great.

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I can't believe how late I am

I can't believe how late I am to this update, but I have to say I am hyped! You all did a great job with this.

Issue 0 CoH player barely let my subscription lapse before NC Soft called it quits; my incarnate gear *Sniff*
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