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Discuss: Where We Stand The Avatar Builder

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JWBullfrog
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Discuss: Where We Stand The Avatar Builder

For those of you interested in numbers the Avatar Builder currently includes:

(spandex) PATTERNS: 95

(spandex) DETAILS: 95

COLORS: 255

BASE MATERIALS:176

SKIN COLORS: 47

SKIN TEXTURES: 12

CHARACTER TEMPLATES (Premade Avatars) 16

BACKGROUNDS 6

SLIDERS: 139

These numbers will be changing as improvements and additions are put into place.

MWM Editor- Public Relations Team Lead -All Purpose Frog

Wait until you see the... nope, that would ruin the surprise.

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YES!

YES!

Looks GREAT.

The cape on Magicio looked awesome (the flow of the cape looked a bit wonky when he crossed his arms, but whatever).

I really enjoyed the skin textures and the womans outfit as well.

Also: the hair looks amazing, and the amount of material options is really cool as well.

Thanks for the update, great job.

"The world is full of evil and lies and pain and death, and you can’t hide from it; you can only face it. The question is, when you do – How do you respond? Who do you become?"

avelworldcreator
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FYI, 256 colors actually :p

FYI, 256 colors actually :p

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avelworldcreator wrote:
avelworldcreator wrote:

FYI, 256 colors actually :p

Oooh, what was the secret color that he didn't know about? :D

The Altruist, Invulnerability/Super Strength Stalwart.

JWBullfrog
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alltrueist wrote:
alltrueist wrote:
avelworldcreator wrote:

FYI, 256 colors actually :p

Oooh, what was the secret color that he didn't know about? :D

Octarine....????

MWM Editor- Public Relations Team Lead -All Purpose Frog

Wait until you see the... nope, that would ruin the surprise.

avelworldcreator
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JWBullfrog wrote:
JWBullfrog wrote:
alltrueist wrote:
avelworldcreator wrote:

FYI, 256 colors actually :p

Oooh, what was the secret color that he didn't know about? :D

Octarine....????

Right. Because around here we do magic!

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Excellent stuff, MWM! Thanks

Excellent stuff, MWM! Thanks for showing us some good examples of less monstrous, more heroic looking characters as we requested.

I like how the video shows the process of creation on each one. Textures and patterns are awesome!

The UI is looking good -- plenty of intuitive shortcuts as well as capability for fine details. Will we get a Random button on each element before this goes live?

EDIT: P.S. Just wanted to say that my wife is impressed, and she's not even a gamer.

Spurn all ye kindle.

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This is quality work guys,

This is quality work guys, love the polished look of the video and the flow of the presentation! I’m very much going to enjoy watching this again, second by second, to take in everything I’m seeing in the AB showcase.

Keep up the great work, you’re making one hell of a product.

I know we’ll be in the city soon enough.

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I'm happy to see such a quick

I'm happy to see such a quick follow-through from the announcement of the CharGen video to it actually being published. The UI looks great, the customization looks great, and I think we're all going to be super impressed once we get the ability to fully explore all of the combinations that are possible. Great work!!

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Just fantastic! My

Just fantastic! My excitement level just keeps going higher and higher. Cannot wait for the second chance Kickstarter so I can try this out.

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Really loved that floating

Really loved that floating animation on the female model. Everything sold it well when it came to the costume and particle effect. Powerful looking.

Reward tactics as well as damage dealing.

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I noticed the Stone Skin on

I noticed the Stone Skin on that one pull-down menu. Would that be like a polished marble statue, or rough, or both, depending on textures?

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JWBullfrog
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Right now it's a rough

Right now it's a rough texture. There are a couple of options that will get you close to marble (I forget the names right now.) And, of course, we're still not done adding things...????

MWM Editor- Public Relations Team Lead -All Purpose Frog

Wait until you see the... nope, that would ruin the surprise.

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Well, I have a bit more hope

Well, I have a bit more hope with the avatar builder after seeing this :)

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So... Is issue #0 soon(tm) in

So... Is issue #0 soon(tm) in sight?
Really loved the video! Thanks :)

The cape at the end, was a bit off though :P

Tech

45 52 52 4F 52 3A 20 34 30 34 0D 0A 48 65 72 6F 20 6E 6F 74 20 66 6F 75 6E 64 21

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Looking 100% better than last

Looking 100% better than last time!
The Dr Strange guy was great. I loved the Magneto (Statesman shhh! don't say it out loud) helmet.
The girl was pretty. I'm still looking for make up and a glamour look. I know you guys are all caught up in production, but I do challenge you for a few super model faces.

The TEXTURES!!!!! I love them. this is a magnificent update! I am really pumped now, and I gotta wait still.
and I can't forget the auras. Vast improvement!

and to all the Devs....THANK YOU!

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So I take it we can expect

So I take it we can expect Second Chance and Issue #0 soon with the “Coming Soon” at the end... right?

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One question I had. I

One question I had. I noticed the sliders are like a 0-100. For the height slider is there anyway to determine the height in feet and inches?

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Looking good, nay great!

Looking good, nay great!

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Outstanding! So very much

Outstanding! So very much customization! Love all the details! It just keeps looking better and better!

I especially like the stretch forward punch! Is't a nice peek at how they will look going toe to toe in a brawl!

Bravo!

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I think my only issue is that

I think my only issue is that I didn't see scales in the skin texture dropdown D:

otherwise, this is a much, much better looking piece than you guys had last time. Good job!

An infinite number of tries doesn't mean that any one of those tries will succeed. I could flip an infinite number of pennies an infinite number of times and, barring genuine randomness, they will never come up "Waffles".

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And, since there are some

Since there are some folks who have recently joined us who may not have seen our original Avatar Builder video from just about a year ago, I'll copy it in now so you can see the difference.

MWM Editor- Public Relations Team Lead -All Purpose Frog

Wait until you see the... nope, that would ruin the surprise.

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JWBullfrog wrote:
JWBullfrog wrote:

Since there are some folks who have recently joined us who may not have seen our original Avatar Builder video from just about a year ago, I'll copy it in now so you can see the difference.

It's great to see how much evolution/improvement MWM has managed to accomplish with this. I found myself "slo-mo-ing" the latest vid to look at and study every bit of the screen. It all looks very promising. :)

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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Now this is awesome. Great

Now this is awesome. Great work folks!

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Great update. Really

Great update. Really impressed with how things are coming together. Some of the tiny touches are lovely, like the way even the smallest accessories have momentum so the tassels on the stone guy's kneepad flip forward and back on the lunge punch.

One thing that stone guy highlights, and this has been requested elsewhere, is please include the alternate skin textures (stone, metal etc.) as options for the modesty bits, so you can have an unclothed character IF their skin material is sufficiently out there that they wouldn't qualify as 'nudity'. I'm pretty certain the T rating doesn't require walking scrapyards and creatures composed entirely of liquid fire to run round in y-fronts (tighty-whities I believe is the transatlantic translation).

You may have already done this, of course.

Keep up the great work!

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Just beautiful. I was

Just beautiful. I was literally sold at 'Metal Skin.' It already looked amazing. And then the subtle shading of the suit materials, and all the effects, the hair, the capes. It's amazing guys. Really incredible work. I cannot wait.

Formerly @Fireforged, member of In Hoc Signo Vinces
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I’m viewing this on my phone

I’m viewing this on my phone but I just see text in the OP, not a video or link. I’m wondering what I’m missing.

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Ok that looks frickin awesome

Ok that looks frickin awesome.

I will spend countless hours in there tweaking Miss Mysterios look. Best guess is that she will be my mage, tossing fire around and putting people to sleep with the Rings of Despraw. Billowly cloak, body armour with faintly glowing ruins, and sharp looking black boots.

Which actually reminds me of a question. I always wanted to rename my powers.....Generic Energy Blast #3 could quickly become a magic missle. I would like to suggest that if we could have this ability client side it would be cool and wouldnt cause any additional server stress to my understamdingnof such things. Not at launch for sure.

This is plausible right?

Hi. I'm Hope.

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Atama wrote:
Atama wrote:

I’m viewing this on my phone but I just see text in the OP, not a video or link. I’m wondering what I’m missing.

Check the front page for the update itself.


I don't use a nerf bat, I have a magic crowbar!
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Hope wrote:
Hope wrote:

Ok that looks frickin awesome.

I will spend countless hours in there tweaking Miss Mysterios look. Best guess is that she will be my mage, tossing fire around and putting people to sleep with the Rings of Despraw. Billowly cloak, body armour with faintly glowing ruins, and sharp looking black boots.

Which actually reminds me of a question. I always wanted to rename my powers.....Generic Energy Blast #3 could quickly become a magic missle. I would like to suggest that if we could have this ability client side it would be cool and wouldnt cause any additional server stress to my understamdingnof such things. Not at launch for sure.

This is plausible right?

Plausible to rename your powers client side, yes. But there is no planned support for this and it wouldn’t help with any of the server-based messages about your powers, even ones sent to you.


I don't use a nerf bat, I have a magic crowbar!
- Combat Mechanic -
Tech Team.
Hope
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Kk. Ty.

Kk. Ty.

Hi. I'm Hope.

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Great vid, thank you!

Great vid, thank you!
I noticed it wasn't posted as a KS update, are those not a thing anymore? :)

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Mine just came to me as a KS

Mine just came to me as a KS update. E-mail notifications must be a bit slow today.

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I just received it as well.

I just received it as well. Thanks!

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The modesty briefs are a

The modesty briefs are a desired upgrade, but not a current feature - it's a second stage upgrade, unfortunately. But it is in the plan.

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Atama wrote:
Atama wrote:

I’m viewing this on my phone but I just see text in the OP, not a video or link. I’m wondering what I’m missing.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/missingworldsmedia/the-phoenix-project-city-of-titans/posts/2418189

They didn't link it in the OP. (but they did link this thread in the KS post)

"Just, well, update your kickstarter email addresses, okay? Make sure they're current?" - warcabbit

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For the next Character

For the next Character Creator showcase, could we see some of the variations in outfits? These three examples were all variations on skin tight suits with a few armbands, knee/shoulder pads or capes.

"Just, well, update your kickstarter email addresses, okay? Make sure they're current?" - warcabbit

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Thanks, I just got the email

Thanks, I just got the email too. I rarely visit the home page, I just read the forums and emails.

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Appears that some sort of

Appears that some sort of login issue / server downtime today devoured my first attempt to post. Anyway:

Between this and the Valentine's character, I like both what we're seeing and how we're seeing it. Adjustments to the communication methods are working so far, and I appreciate the efforts over the last few weeks.

The avatar builder is clearly shaping up to something release-worthy, with a clean and functional UI to support the volume of choices we'll be able to make.
The increasing selection of materials, glow option, hairstyles, and so forth are encouraging. I was really impressed by the high quality appearance of the magician outfit's green tendrils and the female hero's scale-like costume sections.

I'll want to find out more about the distinction between "patterns" and "details", and what that difference allows us to do.

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Overall this looks really

Overall this looks really good, and it looks like we'll be getting access sooner or later with how much it's improved. This really is going to be the successor we need.

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Man, that looks 'GOOD'.

Man, that looks 'GOOD'. Probably the best avatar builder tease you guys have done to date. Doesn't look like plastic in the slightest and the style is completely what I was hoping for. Just the right amount of realism and grittiness. You have my appreciation, and keep up the great work.

Puny Heroes.

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One thing that bugged me in

One thing that bugged me in the video was how far away from the waist the avatars were holding their elbows, as if they were trying to "widen" their stance while standing "at rest" during the costume selection process. I can understand how that sort of thing would be desirable from a "I need to see all the way around everything" when spinning the avatar sense, but I'm hoping that the simple posing of the avatar could look a bit more ... relaxed ... in a natural way while working through menus and options, so the posture doesn't look quite as unnatural while in the costume editor.


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Scott: Patterns are color

Scott: Patterns are color patterns. Details is clothing detailing.
So you can have a pattern that lets you paint a green square on the costume - but the matching details embosses it.
Details don't have to match patterns.
Red: The default pose is there so you get a good look at the character. But there _are_ other poses.

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Scott Jackson wrote:
Scott Jackson wrote:

I'll want to find out more about the distinction between "patterns" and "details", and what that difference allows us to do.

Patterns are colored designs you can put on top of basic costume pieces. The Black and red elements on the Rock giant's chest in the video is an example of this. They are essentially 'flat' and follow the contours of the body. Details add '3D' elements to costume pieces. Details cannot be colored separately. At about 1:36 in the video the green curling design on the character is a Detail with a Pattern over it. Each Pattern has a matching Detail, but you can mix and match as you like. You could, for example, put a diamond Pattern over Detail that has the look of body armor panels.

MWM Editor- Public Relations Team Lead -All Purpose Frog

Wait until you see the... nope, that would ruin the surprise.

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This video has made me more

This video has made me more excited for this game than I’ve ever been, and that’s saying a LOT. That’s the coolest character creator I’ve ever seen for a game.

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Was this post:

Was this post:

warcabbit wrote:

The modesty briefs are a desired upgrade, but not a current feature - it's a second stage upgrade, unfortunately. But it is in the plan.

Supposed to be a response to the following question/request:

Tranquil Flower wrote:

One thing that stone guy highlights, and this has been requested elsewhere, is please include the alternate skin textures (stone, metal etc.) as options for the modesty bits, so you can have an unclothed character IF their skin material is sufficiently out there that they wouldn't qualify as 'nudity'. I'm pretty certain the T rating doesn't require walking scrapyards and creatures composed entirely of liquid fire to run round in y-fronts (tighty-whities I believe is the transatlantic translation).

It's hard to tell but the two posts seemed to be "covering" (no pun intended) the same topic.

If the answer to Tranquil Flower here is "it is in the plan" that is good news. This topic has come up several times over the years and getting the Devs to answer definitely either way (yes or no) has been fairly difficult until (apparently) now. Thanks for the concrete info on this.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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Ah, excellent. Thanks for

Ah, excellent. Thanks for the pattern / detail ...uh...details. "Detail" sounds useful both for the obvious 3D complimenting of its matching pattern, or for adding a sort of counter-pattern in some cases. The closest CoH example I can think of is where certain top costume and bottom costume pieces could transition into each other despite being from different costume sets...except that we can also do that within a given costume piece. Interesting.

Good to hear that various poses will be available as we're spending hours (days?) in the AB. All of my characters would have terrible cramps, at least to level 10...

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Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:
JWBullfrog wrote:

Since there are some folks who have recently joined us who may not have seen our original Avatar Builder video from just about a year ago, I'll copy it in now so you can see the difference.

I found myself "slo-mo-ing" the latest vid to look at and study every bit of the screen. It all looks very promising. :)

Saaaame! I tried just playing at decreased speed, but i just hovered over the space.

Jean Grey looking one was my favorite with the glowy bits and aura :)


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Good Lord. Updates this good

Good Lord. Updates this good huuuurt! I can't wait to play. I mean, I will wait, but...

FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)

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Now that's an update.

Now that's an update.

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Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:

Was this post:

warcabbit wrote:

The modesty briefs are a desired upgrade, but not a current feature - it's a second stage upgrade, unfortunately. But it is in the plan.

Supposed to be a response to the following question/request:

Tranquil Flower wrote:

One thing that stone guy highlights, and this has been requested elsewhere, is please include the alternate skin textures (stone, metal etc.) as options for the modesty bits, so you can have an unclothed character IF their skin material is sufficiently out there that they wouldn't qualify as 'nudity'. I'm pretty certain the T rating doesn't require walking scrapyards and creatures composed entirely of liquid fire to run round in y-fronts (tighty-whities I believe is the transatlantic translation).

It's hard to tell but the two posts seemed to be "covering" (no pun intended) the same topic.

If the answer to Tranquil Flower here is "it is in the plan" that is good news. This topic has come up several times over the years and getting the Devs to answer definitely either way (yes or no) has been fairly difficult until (apparently) now. Thanks for the concrete info on this.

Yes, thanks for the definitive answer on this, Warcabbit.

To cover us during the interim period, I should probably go add y-fronts to the costume request thread. If watching Breaking Bad and True Detective has taught me anything, it's that wearing nothing but a gasmask and y-fronts is a strong statement look.

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My friend and my bro each had

My friend and my bro each had constructive criticism to add, so I'm offering on their behalf.

From friend: "Given how much time is usually invested in character creation, I hope the character creator will have an auto save function."

From bro: "At first, I was convinced the magician and the girl had hip fins, but once I realized it was the background, I found myself hoping they will find a way to either make that background detail more subdued or have the option to remove it. It is far too distracting. Couldn't even really see the girl's arms once they were colored black."

Hope these are more helpful than not! Love what I'm seeing and really looking forward to playing with the builder! :D

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Been away for a while and saw

Been away for a while and saw this pop up on youtube, got me all excited about CoT again.

As much as I liked the whole video the last 30 seconds or so were the best part for me because it showed the characters actually animated in scenery with effects. That seemed like a big step forward.

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1) We plan to put a height

1) We plan to put a height scale at least into the creator again. Units should be selectable.
2) We hope to be able to change the character background in the creator so any distractions will be absent.

Comments about issues with the creator right now are very welcome and we are paying attention.

-----------

Senior Developer/Project Manager/Co-Founder... and then some.

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Is the per-element Random

Is the per-element Random button still in the plans? It was at some point last year, but I know things can change.

Spurn all ye kindle.

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avelworldcreator wrote:
avelworldcreator wrote:

1) We plan to put a height scale at least into the creator again. Units should be selectable.

When you say "put in a height scale" would that be something like a "police lineup" scale that exists on the wall behind the character (preferred) or are you talking about uniquely fidgeting around with the height slider tick marks (not preferred)? And when you say "selectable units" I'd assume you mean between Imperial and Metric?

avelworldcreator wrote:

2) We hope to be able to change the character background in the creator so any distractions will be absent.

Yes I'll agree with Timothius on this point. I like the winged logo of Titan City as much as anyone but when it appears behind the character like that in the creation area it does create a distraction. Please offer at least one character background that is completely distraction/logo free to make character creation easier.

Timothius wrote:

Given how much time is usually invested in character creation, I hope the character creator will have an auto save function.

There was talk from the Devs years ago to have both a "save/load costume" feature and a separate "save/load body model slider" feature. These two features would save data into two different types of files so that you can keep costumes separately from specific body model configurations. Could someone like avelworldcreator confirm that is still the plan for CoT?

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Cinnder wrote:
Cinnder wrote:

Is the per-element Random button still in the plans? It was at some point last year, but I know things can change.

Were they really talking about providing a randomize button for each costume element rather than just a single universal randomize button for the entire character? I would technically not be against such a thing but I would question just how useful such a thing would be. Is overall randomization not enough?

We do know they are going to have "lock toggles" on individual elements - maybe you can lock everything else down and leave say one thing unlocked. Then when you use the "universal randomizer" only the unlocked thing(s) would randomize.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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1) Per element random button

1) Per element random button I think may still be in the plans. I need to remind people about that. Group randomizers I think are still also in the plans.
2) Police lineup scaling tool is correct with selectable Imperial/Metric modes. That's precisely what I meant.
3) Lock toggles and reset toggles were, in fact, my idea. The current sliders lack one of the two but I hope to have them both back soonest. Your description about how the lock works is precisely how I'm expecting them to work.
4) I think the two forms of save/load are on the list. I hope to have a few other things as well. Not sure what we have on our list there yet.

Along with randomization we plan on a number of presets. You might have seen the use the limited use of such in one of our previous videos. I have some ideas myself about how to better use that but that remains to be seen.

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avelworldcreator wrote:
avelworldcreator wrote:

1) Per element random button I think may still be in the plans. I need to remind people about that. Group randomizers I think are still also in the plans.
2) Police lineup scaling tool is correct with selectable Imperial/Metric modes. That's precisely what I meant.
3) Lock toggles and reset toggles were, in fact, my idea. The current sliders lack one of the two but I hope to have them both back soonest. Your description about how the lock works is precisely how I'm expecting them to work.
4) I think the two forms of save/load are on the list. I hope to have a few other things as well. Not sure what we have on our list there yet.

Along with randomization we plan on a number of presets. You might have seen the use the limited use of such in one of our previous videos. I have some ideas myself about how to better use that but that remains to be seen.

This one post probably has more answers from a Dev than a few years worth of prodding and poking has produced in the past. Thanks. :)

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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One word: OUT-FREAKIN

One word: OUT-FREAKIN-STANDING!!!

I was really blown away by this update. Also, what's confusing about having 256 of something in computer-land is that they usually start numbering things with item number zero, so if you have 256 colors, they'll likely be numbered 0-255 instead of 1-256, leaving you with the impression that you have 255 of them, when you actually have 256.

The starting figures looked very human and the faces looked great. I really liked that.

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avelworldcreator wrote:
avelworldcreator wrote:

1) Per element random button I think may still be in the plans. I need to remind people about that. Group randomizers I think are still also in the plans.
2) Police lineup scaling tool is correct with selectable Imperial/Metric modes. That's precisely what I meant.
3) Lock toggles and reset toggles were, in fact, my idea. The current sliders lack one of the two but I hope to have them both back soonest. Your description about how the lock works is precisely how I'm expecting them to work.
4) I think the two forms of save/load are on the list. I hope to have a few other things as well. Not sure what we have on our list there yet.

Along with randomization we plan on a number of presets. You might have seen the use the limited use of such in one of our previous videos. I have some ideas myself about how to better use that but that remains to be seen.

Excellent! Thanks for the info.

Spurn all ye kindle.

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Radiac wrote:
Radiac wrote:

Also, what's confusing about having 256 of something in computer-land is that they usually start numbering things with item number zero, so if you have 256 colors, they'll likely be numbered 0-255 instead of 1-256, leaving you with the impression that you have 255 of them, when you actually have 256.

Of course there's always the difference between the way a programmer might number things in code versus how a GUI made for general users might be presented. It'll be interesting to see if this game even bothers to "number" the colors in the GUI one way or the other.

Also if we're sticking to the assumption that the body scale sliders in this game are working on a "1 to 100" scale they have the choice to do it using "0 to 99" or "1 to 100". I might personally prefer "0 to 99" myself but that's likely the kind of thing I could easily get used to either way.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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Glorious! Thanks MWM!

Glorious!

Thanks MWM!

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I'd also like to add my

I'd also like to add my appreciation of the Avatar Builder. It looks gorgeous, and I can hardly wait to play with it.

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As far as the modesty briefs,

As far as the modesty briefs, there's a pretty simple workaround: put on spandex shorts, which are literally skin level, and give them a matching texture. I believe the rock one is available for clothes. While skin, of course, isn't.

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lol, no unic skin :p

lol, no unic skin :p

Just watched that episode of Black Mirror, you know the one ;p


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Shadow Elusive wrote:
Shadow Elusive wrote:

As far as the modesty briefs, there's a pretty simple workaround: put on spandex shorts, which are literally skin level, and give them a matching texture. I believe the rock one is available for clothes. While skin, of course, isn't.

I assume there's going to be the equivalent of a skin-level spandex "yoga/sports bra" costume item in the game that will allow females to do the same thing for their tops as well?

So if we're going to be able to do what you're describing here (I'm not totally sure if what you've said here was ever made this crystal clear before now) then what exactly was warcabbit talking about with his "second stage upgrade". His statement (repeated below) seems to make this issue more muddy than your statement makes things.

warcabbit wrote:

The modesty briefs are a desired upgrade, but not a current feature - it's a second stage upgrade, unfortunately. But it is in the plan.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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Did anyone else notice that

Did anyone else notice that among the buttons to the left of the character there's one with a (barely noticeable) question mark inside?

What's that for?

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Cabbit referred to the

Cabbit referred to the solution he'd originally proposed. I pointed out the workaround is barely any more trouble for the user than the added functionality would be.

Think of it as an emergent solution. Cabbit referred to the discussions we'd had last time the subject came up. Now, looking at the Avatar Builder, it slowly dawns that the solution is already in there.

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Yo, I keep noticing weird

Yo, I keep noticing weird things about characters arms. Just look at Red Rock Guy's right arm in this picture:

What's going on with that? I'm pretty sure I don't punch people with my wrist bent at a sixty degree angle.

I also noticed some weirdness in the procedural map video about Condom Man's arms, but I'm way to lazy to go find the video and post it to give specifics. They were all lumpy and weird. This a known issue or have I just never noticed these things about real human arms?

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How many tails? ;)

How many tails? ;)

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Since we're talking about

Since we're talking about randomization, reset and locks, I'd like to mention something that should be obvious, but apparently is not: Have the locks also work on reset. In CO it's specifically NOT this way, and it's infuriating. I want to keep my hero's basic body shape, size, style and coloration, but reset all the other costume options, but using the reset function resets EVERYTHING. Either via the use of locks or the ability to save and load settings, I really, really want the ability to reset some things without resetting everything.

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Louis Garou wrote:
Louis Garou wrote:

Yo, I keep noticing weird things about characters arms. Just look at Red Rock Guy's right arm in this picture:

What's going on with that? I'm pretty sure I don't punch people with my wrist bent at a sixty degree angle.

I also noticed some weirdness in the procedural map video about Condom Man's arms, but I'm way to lazy to go find the video and post it to give specifics. They were all lumpy and weird. This a known issue or have I just never noticed these things about real human arms?

The wrist is a known, also the animations used were stock and not adjusted to work specifically with our model.

The “lumpiness” was due to the muscle slider used. His muscle morphs where higher and his bulikness was probably set lower, making his frame slightly more “athletic looking” while he looked like a dude on “vitamin S” at the gym all pumped out.

One thing to get used to due to the high degree of customization is players finding something they like but may be disproportionate to other people.


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Wrists are a known thing. In

Wrists are a known thing. In general, animation and weights has been a difficult area due to a severe lack of sufficiently qualified volunteers, but we have some now.

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Bitchin. Though after you fix

Bitchin. Though after you fix it, you should leave it in as an option just in case I ever want to play one of my favorite toons, Dandysprat Limpwrist, AKA Joint Pain Man.

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When I make Gentle-Man the

When I make Gentle-Man the Vagrant Corrector, can he permanently have his pinky extended? Because of course he is the product of proper breeding.

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Awesome! Can'T wait to have

Awesome! Can'T wait to have the Character Creator in my hads!!!

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I can't stop playing this

I can't stop playing this video! I love it! I am so excited for this game, I have no words.

City of Heroes / City of Villains player until the end.

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avelworldcreator wrote:
avelworldcreator wrote:

1) We plan to put a height scale at least into the creator again. Units should be selectable.
2) We hope to be able to change the character background in the creator so any distractions will be absent.

Comments about issues with the creator right now are very welcome and we are paying attention.

Actually, perhaps the EASIEST way to deal with this issue is to make the height scale (at least) ONE of the optional character backgrounds in the CharGen.
Ideally speaking, you'd have two of them ... one for imperial measurement scales (feet, inches), and one for metric. That way, if you want to know how tall your character is, you can simply change the background to the appropriate scale you are comfortable with using, make your measurement, and then switch back to whatever other background helps you with your creative process. So long as you're not "locked in" to only having a Suspect Lineup Background with a height scale on it, you're good ... especially since that means that adding backgrounds in the future can be a long term development project, so as to extend the CharGen development in an open ended way.


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Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:
Radiac wrote:

Also, what's confusing about having 256 of something in computer-land is that they usually start numbering things with item number zero, so if you have 256 colors, they'll likely be numbered 0-255 instead of 1-256, leaving you with the impression that you have 255 of them, when you actually have 256.

Of course there's always the difference between the way a programmer might number things in code versus how a GUI made for general users might be presented. It'll be interesting to see if this game even bothers to "number" the colors in the GUI one way or the other.

Also if we're sticking to the assumption that the body scale sliders in this game are working on a "1 to 100" scale they have the choice to do it using "0 to 99" or "1 to 100". I might personally prefer "0 to 99" myself but that's likely the kind of thing I could easily get used to either way.

The slider UI element in the Unreal Engine is a simple decimal value between 0 and 1 "under the hood". It's simple math to convert it to any range we desire and/or is appropriate.
This is a good video series:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5Hl074tz3w

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DariusWolfe wrote:
DariusWolfe wrote:

Since we're talking about randomization, reset and locks, I'd like to mention something that should be obvious, but apparently is not: Have the locks also work on reset. In CO it's specifically NOT this way, and it's infuriating. I want to keep my hero's basic body shape, size, style and coloration, but reset all the other costume options, but using the reset function resets EVERYTHING. Either via the use of locks or the ability to save and load settings, I really, really want the ability to reset some things without resetting everything.

When I first did the slider controls the lock control prevented any other actions from affecting the slider until it was unlocked. That included the reset event. I tested it completely. It was literally one of the things I had in mind when I put that feature in there. I have a pretty good sense of UI functionality even if I'm sometimes weak on appearance.

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avelworldcreator wrote:
avelworldcreator wrote:

When I first did the slider controls the lock control prevented any other actions from affecting the slider until it was unlocked. That included the reset event. I tested it completely. It was literally one of the things I had in mind when I put that feature in there. I have a pretty good sense of UI functionality even if I'm sometimes weak on appearance.

I am so glad to read this. This one problem was nearly enough to put me off of experimenting with different costume designs in CO.

~ DariusWolfe
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avelworldcreator wrote:
avelworldcreator wrote:
Lothic wrote:
Radiac wrote:

Also, what's confusing about having 256 of something in computer-land is that they usually start numbering things with item number zero, so if you have 256 colors, they'll likely be numbered 0-255 instead of 1-256, leaving you with the impression that you have 255 of them, when you actually have 256.

Of course there's always the difference between the way a programmer might number things in code versus how a GUI made for general users might be presented. It'll be interesting to see if this game even bothers to "number" the colors in the GUI one way or the other.

Also if we're sticking to the assumption that the body scale sliders in this game are working on a "1 to 100" scale they have the choice to do it using "0 to 99" or "1 to 100". I might personally prefer "0 to 99" myself but that's likely the kind of thing I could easily get used to either way.

The slider UI element in the Unreal Engine is a simple decimal value between 0 and 1 "under the hood". It's simple math to convert it to any range we desire and/or is appropriate.
This is a good video series:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5Hl074tz3w

Thanks for the "insider info" and the fun little video. I pretty much assumed it would be "simple math to convert" the "under the hood" numbers to any GUI appropriate values you wanted to show - that was effectively MY point.

Maybe you could have taken this one step further and told us what range of values you plan to establish for CoT's GUIs? That's the kind of info the "average player" would actually want to know and in fact was the information I was hoping/assuming/hinting would be answered here at some point. You've shown us numbers in your slider pics... what is the range of THOSE numbers.

I know stuff like this may seem pointless/trivial to you because you've actually been playing around with these GUIs for months/years now but you've got to remember that until you actually release anything "into the wild" none of us here have a clue how things are set up even at the most basic level like slider ranges.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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Actually we are still working

Actually we are still working on ranges; that's why we've been so non-specific there. Trying to find what will be sane is going to take our testers (we hope). Our internal time messing with the UI has mostly been a couple of months by a handful of people - and those people only about a day or so. Remember that's at least 139 sliders right now we have to figure out ranges for. We are working heavily on trying to get something that can be sent to our testers ASAP because of this. If you are on the list you'll be getting your hands on this pretty soon (knock on wood!)

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Great work guys , I am truly

Great work guys , I am truly impressed with this update .I would also like to compliment you on your new style of written updates in between the big ones with the videos. I may just be going over old ground here , but will there be fur available for skin? Or possibly fur suits ? You know for a slightly Lycanthropic feel.

The needs of the many , far outweigh the needs of the few . Or the one.

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avelworldcreator wrote:
avelworldcreator wrote:

Actually we are still working on ranges; that's why we've been so non-specific there. Trying to find what will be sane is going to take our testers (we hope). Our internal time messing with the UI has mostly been a couple of months by a handful of people - and those people only about a day or so. Remember that's at least 139 sliders right now we have to figure out ranges for. We are working heavily on trying to get something that can be sent to our testers ASAP because of this. If you are on the list you'll be getting your hands on this pretty soon (knock on wood!)

Thanks again. I understand what you're saying about needing to test the precise limits of the ranges involved. I suspect you'll need a lot of feedback from many testers in order to decide the "sweet spots" for the underlying Unreal values for each and every slider.

But I'll try one more to ask the question that I thought was relatively straightforward but apparently isn't: What arbitrary range scale(s) do you plan to adopt for the GUI once you've figured out the underlying values? To put it in the easiest terms let's say I've just installed CoT and jump into creating a character for the first time. When I first start messing around with the sliders what am I as the PLAYER going to see? Am I going to see a "1 to 100" scale, a "0 to 99" scale or is each slider maybe going to have some subset of unique arbitrary values? I'm not asking about the underlying Unreal numbers - I'm simply asking what you're shooting for to have the PLAYERS see once everything is polished up.

It would seem that regardless of the unique Unreal values for each slider that "shoehorning" all the sliders into a uniform "1 to 100" scale for the GUI would make things easier for the average player. If you had sliders that each had different ranges or overall numbers of "ticks" per scale that would likely seem more jumbled than it ought to be.

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At the moment, we were

At the moment, we were considering a range from 2-39 for each slider. But then we decided that was just silly.
We'll wind up with what we wind up with - if we try to shoehorn it into a completely arbitrary number, we might wind up with cases where 'clicks' did nothing, or had large jumps.
Still, you can assume we'll be targeting 50/100 on the sliders whenever possible. Though a few might wind up as 10.

Project Lead

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warcabbit wrote:
warcabbit wrote:

At the moment, we were considering a range from 2-39 for each slider. But then we decided that was just silly.
We'll wind up with what we wind up with - if we try to shoehorn it into a completely arbitrary number, we might wind up with cases where 'clicks' did nothing, or had large jumps.
Still, you can assume we'll be targeting 50/100 on the sliders whenever possible. Though a few might wind up as 10.

I think this finally answers the basic original question that had been raised about this - thanks.

I guess it does ultimately makes some sense that each individual slider would only have so many "ticks/clicks" that would needed to describe its full range of feasible positions. For example one slider might only have fifty click positions so you could number them 1 to 50, another may only have twenty so it'd be numbered 1 to 20 and so on. I'm not even going to get into why you were considering "2 to 39" for -any- slider. ;)

Here's my concern about sliders existing with their own unique ranges: Since you offered this pic a few weeks ago:

It's clear you are considering showing a "click number" for each slider click position. Do you think it might be confusing to players who see 25 on one "1 to 50" scale thinking that's the "half-way" point then seeing that another scale (for example the "1 to 20" one) can't even be set to 25 in the first place? Basically I'm asking do you think that players are going to expect every slider to conform to the same scale range or do you think it'll be fine that the arbitrary "numbers" shown don't conform to any standaradization across all of the scales? I'm just wondering that if the number "10" or "34" or "pick a number" doesn't mean the same thing on every slider it might be disconcerting to some.

Maybe one way to alleviate confusion would be to set ALL sliders to a mid-way origin of 50. That number (50) would essentially be the arbitrary mid-way origin point that all sliders share regardless of how many clicks each slider actually has. Then going back to the "1 to 50" and "1 to 20" examples I came up with those sliders would actually be numbered "25 to 75" and "40 to 60" respectively. Again the key would be that the player could always rely on 50 being basically "in the middle" of the scale range no matter how many clicks a given slider has.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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"Oooh the Android Skin!" was

"Oooh the Android Skin!" was my comment on your youtube...had me choked up abit.
Love what I'm seeing so far, and still wish you guys could buy that COH/COV I.P
but to save face NCSoft will probably never sell and sit on it for pride sake.
But enough of the sad stuff, anyway of giving Androids / Robot class chest rockets and gating guns including the emotes from COH/COV but giving them different names?
I can't wait to pre-order this game for my P.C

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I forgot about the android

I forgot about the android skin, LOVE IT


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Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:
warcabbit wrote:

At the moment, we were considering a range from 2-39 for each slider. But then we decided that was just silly.

Maybe one way to alleviate confusion would be to set ALL sliders to a mid-way origin of 50. That number (50) would essentially be the arbitrary mid-way origin point that all sliders share regardless of how many clicks each slider actually has. Then going back to the "1 to 50" and "1 to 20" examples I came up with those sliders would actually be numbered "25 to 75" and "40 to 60" respectively. Again the key would be that the player could always rely on 50 being basically "in the middle" of the scale range no matter how many clicks a given slider has.

I've been intentionally quiet, however am very, very glad to see the CharGen progress!

I detect some humor in Warcabbit's post there...

I'd like to tag on to Lothic's suggestion, that if CoT adopts a standard number in the middle of sliders, then I suggest zero be that number.

Formerly wyldhunt of CoH; Guardianite since I2.

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