Anyone asked for glowy bits to be combat only?

One step better, second set of slider positions for combat?

E.g. glows more intense during combat, muscles get bigger, arms get longer.

Cobalt Azurean wrote:

avelworldcreator wrote:

Actually we do have an internal scale for characters and objects. That's how we were able to create that "police lineup" scale previously. There is a reference object we can measure against if we need to. The idea of giving a given slider some units of measure other than sticking with dimensionless values is a good one. I'll pass this on for consideration.

Real numbers? That'd be my preference. Now I'm sure people will argue metric versus imperial.

What's real about it? That's my entire point about saying that ANY number scale used for sliders in ANY game is totally arbitrary. There's nothing "real" about any of it. Let me try to explain since for some reason this point is not obvious to people here.

As has been said the Devs have in fact come up with an "internal scale" for things. What does that mean you ask? That means that either based on what the Unreal Engine has already provided or based on what the Devs themselves have decided they've established an internal measurement system where all the VIRTUAL lengths of things are measured against each other. It's not in "inches" or "centimeters" or "cubits" or any other "real" system you would recognize because again its ALL VIRTUAL GRAPHICS, nothing is REAL about it.

So again what does all that mean for us players? It means that when they ARBITRARYLY decide on a way to translate the values of that internal scale to numbers that players might see on a GUI they have many ways they could do it. Now right off the bat if they choose to try to covert things into a "pseudo-real" scale (something that for example might LOOK like feet and inches to you) then they are already going to have to account for BOTH imperial and metric. You know as well as I do that people will whine if it's only one or the other. So instantly you're asking the Devs to do TWICE the work here. Then there's the question of how fine a detail do you want these pseudo-real scales to be? Do you want it down to just inches, or say half-inches or even to 1/8 or 1/16 of an inch per tick mark? Again whatever they do here will likely piss off someone because it'll be too much or too little.

No, frankly all of that is a total waste of time and would be effectively pointless in practical terms. Let's let the Devs stick with simple positive integers for ALL slider scales (because again the values used are meaninglessly arbitrary anyway) and for the only characteristic where associating it with something like a "real measurement" system makes any sense (which is character height BTW) let's just use the clever idea of a "police lineup scale" printed on the back wall of the character creator so that you can see how tall your character is in feet, centimeters, cubits or whatever makes you happy.

Let's stop giving our Devs extra work to do here. They are apparently having a hard enough time finishing up this creator without having to worry about trying to make their slider scales artificially match with some kind of real world system. If this issue is really going to bother some people enough maybe they can do like they're going to with just about everything else and make what you're asking for here an "optional post launch update".

EDIT: I corrected the spelling of the word ARBITRARYLY because someone decided to be a "spelling Nazi" about it.

Cobalt Azurean wrote:

Lothic wrote:

Cobalt Azurean wrote:

avelworldcreator wrote:

Actually we do have an internal scale for characters and objects. That's how we were able to create that "police lineup" scale previously. There is a reference object we can measure against if we need to. The idea of giving a given slider some units of measure other than sticking with dimensionless values is a good one. I'll pass this on for consideration.

Real numbers? That'd be my preference. Now I'm sure people will argue metric versus imperial.

ARIBTRARYLY

[img]https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/001/625/135891.jpg[/img]

So your only counter to my entire post is harping on a spelling error? *sigh*

Gods if you did that to Tannim you'd have to make fun of every third word he posts here...

Cobalt Azurean wrote:

Lothic wrote:

Cobalt Azurean wrote:

Lothic wrote:

Cobalt Azurean wrote:

avelworldcreator wrote:

Actually we do have an internal scale for characters and objects. That's how we were able to create that "police lineup" scale previously. There is a reference object we can measure against if we need to. The idea of giving a given slider some units of measure other than sticking with dimensionless values is a good one. I'll pass this on for consideration.

Real numbers? That'd be my preference. Now I'm sure people will argue metric versus imperial.

ARIBTRARYLY

[img]https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/001/625/135891.jpg[/img]

So your only counter to my entire post is harping on a spelling error? *sigh*

Gods if you did that to Tannim you'd have to make fun of every third word he posts here...

I'm not going to argue with you. I don't agree with you, period. And no amount of repetitive posting of the same drivel over and over, and I'll say it, over again whilst "subtly" calling into question everyone's intelligence that doesn't agree with you won't change that. Additionally, making a dig at a dev isn't endearing you to anyone. They are at least contributing positively to the project. Yes, I'm inferring that you do not contribute positively. At least when I post, I don't leave room for argument about how I feel about something. And yes, that would be another inference that the manner in which you post rarely make direct attacks as that would be against the rules that could get you into trouble but you aren't fooling anyone.

And I'm well aware that this post likely constitutes a direct attack on a forum poster and will get me into trouble, but honestly I'm tired of passively encouraging your behavior by not saying something. That being said, I won't be baited by you any further and I look forward to you being underway again.

For what it's worth I wasn't "questioning your intelligence". I was just pointing out your suggestion here would simply cause more work for the Devs than likely necessary at this point.

As for the rest of the personal attack against me goes I'll let the Devs decide on that one way or another. I couldn't care less either way.

P.S. You can actually thank the Navy for labeling this website as "Banned as Suspicious" for why I usually can't post while I'm underway. Amazingly enough I didn't even have anything to do with that. While I'm out there I can get to all sorts of other game related sites (including even MWM's facebook for instance) so it is what it is.

Lothic wrote:

Gods if you did that to Tannim you'd have to make fun of every third word he posts here...

ivanhedgehog wrote:

...but as my mother was fond of telling me, :if you dont have something nice to say, dont say anything". please try and follow that sage advice.

I understand everything Tannim posts, and we get more solid info of the game from Tannim than anyone, so I forgive a whole heck of a lot. :)

Not that there’s much to “forgive”, again it’s totally legible.

Lothic wrote:

Again the only reason I specifically mentioned it this ONE SINGLE time is to drive home the point how silly/crappy it is to do to other posters. The mere fact that you guys are coming down on me for indirectly calling Tannim out proves my point about this.

Agreed, if you attack people for spelling/grammar mistakes you’re just being a jerk. Nobody’s perfect, and some people don’t have English as a native language, some people have disabilities that inhibit communication, some people have technical issues. And some people just have a simple typo they missed. If you need to attack someone’s communication skills in an attempt to discredit their ideas or opinions that’s just sad.

I’ve volunteered as an admin at Wikipedia for many years and you have to interact with people from all over the world, with all kinds of backgrounds and challenges. If you’re going to snipe at people for simple mistakes you’re not interested in a real discussion.

Hey. I’m sorry for my fat-fingers when I’m on mobile. I have made an effort to improve and take more time when posting.

Tannim222 wrote:

Hey. I’m sorry for my fat-fingers when I’m on mobile. I have made an effort to improve and take more time when posting.

I assume you have red crowbars for hands which means your efforts so far have been exemplary.

Great progress!! Looking forward to playing, cant wait.

Tannim222 wrote:

Hey. I’m sorry for my fat-fingers when I’m on mobile. I have made an effort to improve and take more time when posting.

desviper wrote:

Don't be hard on yourself, I can generally understand, and when not, I'll simply ask.

Atama wrote:

I assume you have red crowbars for hands which means your efforts so far have been exemplary.

Planet10 wrote:

TannimCrowbarHands? :P

I do stuff like type "jsut" instead of "just" all the time and I have learned to live with it.

StellarAgent wrote:

It's cool Tannim. Most of us are aware of tour mobile typing habits. In fact I have the same one. I us the suggested spellings and spell checker all the time.

Again it's basically for ALL of the these reasons that I [b][i]normally don't call ANYONE out[/i][/b] just for simple spelling/grammar typos. It's a childish way to react to someone because ultimately we ALL make mistakes like that and it wouldn't really help if we all started to act as spelling Nazis against each other. Sadly I used Tannim as the quintessential example of this because even though we all love him he is likely our, uhm, most well known example of this phenomena. ;)

Also while the "WHARRGARBL" thing is kind of funny it's also a childish reaction to an otherwise serious discussion. Just saying. Don't worry, I'll power through it regardless. ;)

Atama wrote:

Lothic wrote:

Again it's basically for ALL of the these reasons that I [b][i]normally don't call ANYONE out[/i][/b] just for simple spelling/grammar typos. It's a childish way to react to someone because ultimately we ALL make mistakes like that and it wouldn't really help if we all started to act as spelling Nazis against each other. Sadly I used Tannim as the quintessential example of this because even though we all love him he is likely our, uhm, most well known example of this phenomena. ;)

Also while the "WHARRGARBL" thing is kind of funny it's also a childish reaction to an otherwise serious discussion. Just saying. Don't worry, I'll power through it regardless. ;)

I think you made that point clear about a half dozen times... Nothing you quoted had anything to do with you. Bringing the thread back around to yourself isn’t exactly “powering through”.

Since I brought up Tannim he's basically ALL the last few posts have been talking about so I'd beg to differ about my involvement. Apparently everyone else was focusing in on this current thread-derail so I just joined in. Perhaps I'm simply becoming reflexively defensive based on all the "love" and "WHARRGARBL" I've received here lately. ;)

Feel free to talk about [b]anything else[/b] you guys want to talk about instead...

For instance I asked a question of the Devs [url=https://cityoftitans.com/comment/167322#comment-167322]a week ago[/url] about how they are planning to handle "skin tone colors" in CoT. I've actually asked that question several times over the years so sooner or later I figure someone will have that issue nailed down implementation-wise.

Atama wrote:

I’m curious about skin tones too. Are there measures against making someone look naked? Or does it matter? If I’m making a metal robot he shouldn’t need pants.

[img=200x200]http://www.timgoldman.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/ROTW_Pantsbot.jpg[/img]

Well it was confirmed (maybe even in this thread, can't remember ATM) that they are going to allow things like a "spandex biker shorts" type costume item to have all sorts of textures including for example say a metallic metal texture. This would allow you to create a dude with the "metallic skin texture" to wear nothing but those biker shorts (again with the same metallic metal texture on them) and get away with effectively looking "naked". This should allow people to create characters like these if desired:
[img=200x200]http://fc09.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2013/064/6/4/silver_surfer_by_thesilvabrothers-d5x1fle.jpg[/img][img=300x300]https://usercontent1.hubstatic.com/13845518_f520.jpg[/img]

The reason this would be allowed is that the metallic metal texture in question is not going to be considered "bare skin" as far as nakedness is concerned. The key is that they will not be allowing a "human skin" texture to be applied to something like those biker shorts. This was something that could never be handled well in CoH because "textures" in general were baked-in and could not be selected/modified by the player.

While that was an important issue the related one I was talking about is the "skin color palette" that CoH employed to primarily prevent "naked" characters. In that case what the CoH Devs chose to do is to prevent players from using any kind of brown/beige/tan type "skin" color on any costume items. This strictly stopped people from putting say a tan skin-like color on bikini bottoms that exactly matched their skin color to "simulate" nakedness.

The obvious major downside of preventing players from using brown/beige/tan colors on their costume items was that it PREVENTED players from using brown/beige/tan colors on their costume items. That was a big problem for people who legitimately wanted to use those colors without any intent/desire to simulate nakedness.

Thus my original question is what the Devs of CoT intend to do about this. Will we get to use the brown/beige/tan colors on costume items or not?

desviper wrote:

[img=200x200]https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/001/625/135891.jpg[/img]

You know if you overuse that meme you'll start to look like the stupid one around here. Of course I'm already using the qualifier "[color=red][i]start[/i][/color] to look stupid" very loosely. ;)

desviper wrote:

5 paragraphs, that's a small essay :p

What if it was done in comic book panels, would that be easier to read? The post had pictures already.

desviper wrote:

Atama wrote:

desviper wrote:

5 paragraphs, that's a small essay :p

What if it was done in comic book panels, would that be easier to read? The post had pictures already.

I've only got so much free time and I already spend too much on these forums :p

Now that was funny. Thanks, I needed a good laugh. :)

If you don't have like 15-20 seconds to spare to read something like that then don't read it. I'm not going to start writing in "tweets" just to satisfy you ADHD millennial types. ;)

Not sure about the pulsating thing. It's POSSIBLE to make such a material but I'd have to ask around about that.

Since our textures should prevent "naked toons" I think all the colors should be available for everything. Not 100% on that but I think that's the case.

On the pulse, not this pass. Maybe when we get the auras fully operation. I know it's a material function that's readily available. We'd have to make versons of that material with the pulse. For the record glowing materials for performance reasons are limited to only the material's trim. Maybe in the future we can do more.

For the record I'd like a skin palette, hair palette, eye palette. Same basic palette as the costume but with some extra colors that match natural human color ranges. Because of the limited contexts I might be able to argue for such. Wish me well.

Here's a Travel Power animation you might want to use that would be linked to a specific power and/or a costume change emote.

[img]https://media1.tenor.com/images/231b3125e08bc0a9dde03fff49f29b31/tenor.gif[/img] . [img]https://66.media.tumblr.com/fdb7b184fefa8b5ad7238cb6401c54f8/tumblr_nqgaedpnQS1ur7r19o1_500.gif[/img]

Animation time doesn't need to be that long, but you get the idea ...

Lothic wrote:

avelworldcreator wrote:

For the record I'd like a skin palette, hair palette, eye palette. Same basic palette as the costume but with some extra colors that match natural human color ranges. Because of the limited contexts I might be able to argue for such. Wish me well.

Fair enough. I'm not actually "anti extra color palette" here. Having extra palettes for "cosmetic benefits" sounds cool. I'm just saying you shouldn't [b]need[/b] to have an extra one [b]just[/b] to address the "naked toon" issue. Let the textures handle that automagically.

Yeah I think that's the thing with 2004 graphics vs 2019 graphics, kinda hard to make spandex look naked in UE4.

Grimfox wrote:

Sliders. Numbers. I think it's good to have a reference number. I think that the scale doesn't have to be consistent. I don't think it makes a lot of sense to have 100 variations for nose width or 10 for leg length. If a slider needs 50 ticks then it should have 50 ticks. If it only needs 10 ticks to be effective, then it only needs 10 ticks. Finally, I don't think that the center is necessarily "normal" or "average" Consider the bicep size of an average person. Someone malnourished. And a roided up body builder. The malnourished arm and the average arm are not as different these would be 0 and 3 while the roided out arm would be 10. I think it would be best to figure out what the maximum and minimums are that wont break everything and then decide where "average" is and set that as default. Personally I usually grab each slider in turn and jerk it to min and max and then decide where I want my setting to be.

Colors and palette. I think there should be a biased palette for each major section with all colors available. So for things like "hair" you'd have typical hair colors pushed towards the top of the palette, but if you scroll down then you still have all the options. Similarly when setting skin color, skin tones at the top and the rest of the colors down below. We talked about giving each color a number or reference for sharing costume information shifting the palette around for key areas like hair and skin could cause some issues since your consistency in the palette is lost. It's not a perfect answer. Just some spit balling. The important preference I have here is that all colors be available everywhere.

That's all for now.

I think these are good summaries of both topics. I think a key point that relates both subjects is the fact that the "numbers" involved don't (and probably shouldn't) intrinsically mean anything. As I've said before they are completely arbitrary and only serve to label one setting from another. They don't represent "lengths of measurement" or "RGB values" or anything else. They are just a way to tell "arm slider tick setting number 4" from "arm slider tick setting number 5".

Concrete values for various slider-settings and other settings are useful for copying costumes so that all group-mates may look alike, or so that a 'good face' can be reused, as well.

Be Well!
Fireheart

Soon™ my work will be done and everything will be ending.
When will it happen, you ask? I can assure you, Soon™!

#bummer, soonsquid

It's an illithid that blows everyone's mind away. ^_^

Foradain wrote:

It's an illithid that blows everyone's mind away. ^_^

It just flays them lightly.

Nothing constructive to add, just a thanks for the vid and a wow, looks great.