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Costume Request Thread 3.0

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Lothic
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Actually my conclusion was
DesViper wrote:

Yeah, the varied utility of shoulder pets makes it better categorized as a Prop than a costume piece. Costume pieces don't mode independently of the character.

Actually my conclusion was that a "shoulder pet" could justifiably be categorized as either a prop OR a costume item depending on how the character uses it. If it serves as an emanation point of a power (regardless if it animates or not) then it's a "prop". If it's purely cosmetic (again regardless if it animates or not) then it's effectively an "animated costume item" or even arguably a specialized Vanity Pet.

Remember there'll be plenty of costume items that animate independently of the character (i.e. capes, hair, wings, tails, etc.) so you can't use the quality of animation alone to discriminate whether something is a prop or a costume item. How the item is used should determine if it's a prop or a costume item.

This is why shoulder pets are a grey area because I think you could easily have shoulder pets that are mechanically designed to be props OR costume items. They are probably one of the few things in the context of CoT that could be either one.

DesViper wrote:

Also they often need picture references :p The Prop thread has picture examples, whereas costume pieces just need to be "google"able :p

Not sure what you mean by this considering the hundreds of pics people have linked to the costume threads over the years to describe their costumes item ideas. *shrugs*

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you can give hair style to

you can give hair style to any person right ?

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Owais wrote:
Owais wrote:

you can give hair style to any person right ?

You'll be able to give your characters any hair style you want. The real question is how many hair style options this game will eventually offer. ;)

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Owais wrote:
Owais wrote:

you can give hair style to any person right ?

There was an update on the kickstarter page all about the hair designer we have on the development team. I've linked to it below. And at the bottom of the article is a link to the forum discussion.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/missingworldsmedia/the-phoenix-project-city-of-titans/posts/1792126


I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
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Huckleberry wrote:
Huckleberry wrote:
Owais wrote:

you can give hair style to any person right ?

There was an update on the kickstarter page all about the hair designer we have on the development team. I've linked to it below. And at the bottom of the article is a link to the forum discussion.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/missingworldsmedia/the-phoenix-project-city-of-titans/posts/1792126

To be a bit blunt the info you linked to hasn't been updated for 3.5 years. Like most everything else about this game it'd be nice to get a quick update about where the Devs are with this aspect of the game. Surely Hunter Robins (or whoever is working on it now) has at least a couple dozen hair styles "in the can" ready to go by this point based on the "several days per hairstyle" estimate given in the linked article.

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Grimfox wrote:
Grimfox wrote:

I suspect those links are dangerous. Do not follow them. I think this guy is astroturfing and dropping links hoping the hapless will click them. Please report posts with suspicious links like this.

Are you referring to the links Owais provided in post #273? I was trying to give that post the benefit of the doubt but given that the person just joined and asked a relatively "odd" question I never even considered to clicking on those links. Again trying to be fair but the entire post did seem a bit suspicious from the get-go. *shrugs*

While I'm here I might as well toss out an idea for a hairstyle. There's this talented young Norwegian singer named Aurora Aksnes (goes by her stage name Aurora) whose built up a bit of a indie/synth pop career over the last few years. She's had many hairstyles but one of her more signature looks involves a classic bob with these extra "tails" in towards the front. The following few pics will give you the idea:

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Suspicious links have been

Suspicious links have been removed and the user was contacted. :)


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Also, "bob w/ tails" added

Also, "bob w/ tails" added under Hair :)


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I love her hair. It reminds

I love her hair. It reminds me of the Japanese "hime" cut. But hers is still very different and unique. I was going to suggest the hime cut but after checking the list...it's already there.

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I think anyone familiar with

I think anyone familiar with Final Fantasy XIV would call it the Y'shtola look.


I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
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It's like a kitsune-flavored

It's like a kitsune-flavored Kusanagi.

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Some more belts would be

Some more belts would be really really fun!

Nothing major. Only a few really.

Sure there are belts for the waist already, and straps for the limbs, and a harness for the chest. But why stop there? Could always dress in more belts! There's no reason that a top couldn't be made of belts, or some leggings, or a pattern for a suit, or a skin itself! You always have your head made out of belts, or your tail! But why stop there when you have a beautiful system for auras? You could walk on belts, fly with belts, and breath in the belts! Everything in the world is already made of belts after all, that's what stringbelt theory says! (Trust me, I'm a belt scientist)

Just look at the 90s and early 2000s for inspiration! Everyone respected belts then. Final Fantasy sure had a few, but just look at Vash the Stampede dressed almost entirely in belts! Everyone from Edward Scissorhands to Pinhead knew how practical belts could be as garments, and they came up with some fantastically creative uses for them! Or better yet, just look up Too Many Belts on TV Tropes! https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TooManyBelts It's absolutely silly that they think you could ever have too many, but if you follow the examples in their extensive citations you could never go wrong!!

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"Leather belts/straps" added

"Leather belts/straps" added under Materials ;)


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My last entry in this thread

My last suggestion in this thread was related to a European singer so to keep that theme going I've got another costume suggestion from another European singer.

This time I'll talk about Maria Franz who's a member of Heilung. They're a neofolk/ethnic band that specializes in northern European iron/bronze age music. They're like what would happen if a group of historical Norse/Vikings came to our time, formed a modern band and played heavy percussion-based music. They have a bunch of vids on youtube if you want to check them out.

Maria usually plays the role of the tribal priestess wearing the same basic white dress and headdress with attached antlers. The following are a few pics of her:


Her entire outfit is wonderful but specifically for CoT I'd want a version of her leather mask/veil. What's cool (creepy?) about it is that it obscures her eyes and gives her a very otherworldly vibe. Without eyes she seems ghostly or witch-like and that might be cool for a mystical/necromancer type character.

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I love that outfit, good find

I love that outfit, good find :) Added as "Heilung headress" under Headwear since it's too specific for "nordic headress".


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I love it.

I love it.

It's two pieces. A fringed veil and the antlers. Antlers appear to already be on the list.

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Grimfox wrote:
Grimfox wrote:

I love it.

It's two pieces. A fringed veil and the antlers. Antlers appear to already be on the list.

Yeah that's why I was only specifically asking for the veil here.

But in the long run there's no reason why we couldn't have multiple items here. We could have a standalone fringed veil, we could have just antlers (for people who want 'real' antlers embedded in their heads) and something called a "Heilung headdress" that's basically what Maria Franz wears as an elaborate hat.

While we're at it I wouldn't mind something like the face makeup/tattoo Maria's wearing as well for CoT.

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The advantage of Makeup over

The advantage of Makeup over tattoos is that you don't have to be 'Viking KISS' all the time. It's one of my principles for Costume Design. One must have the ability to go to the Pizza-joint, for your neice's birthday party, without 'outing' yourself as a Titan. Therefore, costume items must be removable, or replaceable. OR one has to have a plausible plan for shape-changing.

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Fireheart wrote:
Fireheart wrote:

The advantage of Makeup over tattoos is that you don't have to be 'Viking KISS' all the time. It's one of my principles for Costume Design. One must have the ability to go to the Pizza-joint, for your neice's birthday party, without 'outing' yourself as a Titan. Therefore, costume items must be removable, or replaceable. OR one has to have a plausible plan for shape-changing.

Sure character story wise there's a big difference between wearing removable makeup and having permanent tattoos. But in terms of the avatar builder there's probably not really a distinction except what kind of terminology the Devs want to use to label various options in the GUI.

For example if I had a character with two costume slots and I chose to make those two slots identical except one had a star on her cheek and the other didn't then I could roleplay that the star was likely just makeup and I could switch between the two costume slots to pretend I was either wearing that makeup or not. But let's say I decide to have that star appear in every costume slot the character has. Since that star would then effectively be "permanent" I could roleplay the star was a permanent tattoo.

Like most things whether a thing is "makeup" or a "tattoo" should be up to the player and either choice is perfectly valid.

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yeah this is already a solved

yeah this is already a solved issue, their are going to be tailors and extra costume slots, it's not like your not going to be able to change your costume

not my video just one I lke ===> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6-SdIN0hsM

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looks through the list in the

looks through the list in the OP, doesn't find Guy Fawkes or V for Vendetta masks

"Remember, remember, the fifth of November, the gunpowder treason and plot!
I know of no reason the Gunpowder Treason should ever be forgot!"

If we call it a Guy Fawkes mask, that should reduce spurious lawsuits claiming it's from V for Vendetta. I mean, if it's not public domain after four hundred years...

reads the Wikipedia article

Say what? How can that be?

sigh

So how about the facial hair arrangement of curled-up handlebar 'stache and narrow van-dyke beard? Would we have to make it very different from that seen in the movie and the graphic novel?

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After a quick google image

After a quick google image search it's clear people are still using that mask all around the world in all sorts of variations. All MWM would have to do is make sure they didn't copy the "V for Vendetta" version of the mask 100% identically and they'd be perfectly fine.

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"Condescending Online Man

"Condescending Online Man mask" added under headwear ;)


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who suggested condescending

who suggested condescending online man mask?

not my video just one I lke ===> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6-SdIN0hsM

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notears wrote:
notears wrote:

who suggested condescending online man mask?

I think that was DesViper's worthy attempt to call a "Guy Fawkes" mask something completely generic so one of those evil media corporations can't sue MWM for its use.

This seems almost like the same weird legal grey area that Marvel got involved with trying to copyright Thor. I get there are ways you can legally own a "representation" of a historical and/or mythological character but given that Guy Fawkes lived 400+ years ago I don't think MWM would have much to worry about (assuming again that they don't ever identically copy the "V for Vendetta" mask in CoT).

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Here's another amazingly

Here's another amazingly simple suggestion that came from the Discord page: animal whiskers (cat, mouse, etc.).

It's always funny when an obvious idea takes years to make it to the list. :)

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Whiskers added under Facial

Whiskers added under Facial Hair :)


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Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:

Here's another amazingly simple suggestion that came from the Discord page: animal whiskers (cat, mouse, etc.).

It's always funny when an obvious idea takes years to make it to the list. :)

Totally. I didn't even include whiskers in my costume items for the Beastman Pack. Funny.


I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch

not my video just one I lke ===> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6-SdIN0hsM

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So you've prefer this to just

So you've prefer this to just long fingers?


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notears wrote:
notears wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=crOgdSapOJI

I need these

Even though this YouTube vid was posted recently I actually saw this thing with the "finger extenders" some years ago. It's a cool idea, at least for the real world.

Like DesViper said I think we can already choose to have long fingers in the avatar builder but I guess this idea can be extended out to having different kinds of claw/mechanical hands.

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DesViper wrote:
DesViper wrote:

So you've prefer this to just long fingers?

I like them both, no reason to have one over the other, it'll be like saying that we have only mask. I just like the count orlock type finger animations

not my video just one I lke ===> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6-SdIN0hsM

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Forgot for legs: Satyr/Faun,

Forgot for legs: Satyr/Faun, and hooves. Like this girl.
IMAGE(https://immortalmusic.net/goi/images/Demi%20(3D).jpg)

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MikaMerrow wrote:
MikaMerrow wrote:

Forgot for legs: Satyr/Faun, and hooves.

This was another great catch. I think "horse legs" were on the list but somehow we missed the classic "Satyr/Faun" type legs.

While I'm here I'll add my own limb-related suggestion. I think we need a "hand replacement" that gives us a humanoid four-fingered hand:

This would be great for people who want to do "alien" type characters that are mostly human but just a tiny bit different. Or for people who want to do Simpsons clones. There's probably a lot of uses for these.

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Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:

While I'm here I'll add my own limb-related suggestion. I think we need a "hand replacement" that gives us a humanoid four-fingered hand:

I have a suspicion this is actually difficult. I’m pretty sure the skeleton we use has a full set of bones in the fingers, and I expect these will be used in gripping props and animations. A four fingered hand would require all that to be duplicated, I think. Also, any gloves would have to be re-created to fit the different hand mesh. These issues will also crop up to a degree with the existing hand replacements like the boxing gloves. But you wouldn’t normally expect those to work well with a hand prop.

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Iathor wrote:
Iathor wrote:
Lothic wrote:

While I'm here I'll add my own limb-related suggestion. I think we need a "hand replacement" that gives us a humanoid four-fingered hand:

I have a suspicion this is actually difficult. I’m pretty sure the skeleton we use has a full set of bones in the fingers, and I expect these will be used in gripping props and animations. A four fingered hand would require all that to be duplicated, I think. Also, any gloves would have to be re-created to fit the different hand mesh. These issues will also crop up to a degree with the existing hand replacements like the boxing gloves. But you wouldn’t normally expect those to work well with a hand prop.

Well no one said that every idea for this game had to be trivial to implement. Obviously some ideas will be harder to do than others but that's not going to stop anyone from suggesting them regardless. ;)

That said I can see where this "four-fingers" idea would be potentially difficult because it'd likely have to be a fundamental modification to the basic body models. Unlike something like an "arm cannon" or even a boxing glove where you could just hide the normal five-fingered hand underneath something this four-fingered idea can't be buried inside a larger glove-like structure. That would definitely be a challenge.

As far as gripping props go that might not be all that different from the standard hand assuming the individual finger animations for the normal five-fingered hand have the 4th and 5th fingers move identically in lock-step. In other words if we can assume the 4th and 5th fingers effectively bend around props in exactly the same way then "removing" the 5th finger shouldn't really change the underlying animations. Bottomline the 4th finger of EITHER a four or five fingered hand should work the same way animation-wise.

Finally the issue about having to recreate/duplicate all the fingered gloves in the game to fit four fingers instead of five has a very simple solution: DON'T worry about it. Simply having the option to have a four-fingered hand WITHOUT any extra gloves for it would be better than not having the option at all. Sure in a perfect world it would be nice to have every glove in the game work with either four or five fingers but it's certainly not necessary. As a hypothetical if you created the Satyr legs would you worry about putting all the normal "human foot" boots on them? Of course not. You can just treat a four-fingered hand to be as "unique" as the nonstandard legs in this case.

As always I would assume a four-fingered hand could be added to the list of things to be implemented "long after launch" regardless of how hard it would be to do.

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Added "Digitigrade legs

Added "Digitigrade legs (insectoid, hooves, boney)" by the Leg Replacer category. We've got "Finger number options" under hands, so it's on the board. But I do like the point that a pinky can be hidden with little change.


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I wouldn't think a four

I wouldn't think a four-fingered hand would be an issue at all. No one has to change any bones or animations to make it happen. Bones aren't visible anyway. They're just a structure to which visible things maintain their relational positioning, right? So all they have to do is just create a visible hand that uses only the first three finger bones, ignoring the pinky bone. The 3D visible mesh for the hand doesn't have to be as wide as a hand with all the fingers on it, does it? We don't want it to look like a normal hand missing a pinky. We want it to look like a naturally four-fingered hand. It would just be narrower. So the game would still use the same number of bones but the players would see a four fingered hand instead of a five fingered hand.

Now, if the players desire a four-fingered hand to have the same width as a five-fingered hand with the difference being the spacing between the fingers, then we could still do that by spacing the hand's skeleton, making it wider so the end result is a four-fingered hand with the same width as a normal five-fingered hand but with greater spacing between the digits.

But as far as I know, hand width is not an existing morph in the character creator. Understandably so, because of all the clipping that could create with weapons and animations. But so long as we are making the fifth digit invisible anyway, clipping wouldn't be an issue in this case. So a four fingered hand could actually be default "wider"so that it appears to be the same width as a five-fingered hand. We wouldn't need to have a hand width slider put into the avatar builder so long as the skeletal hand width adjustment is handled in the code when that hand replacement option is chosen.

People gotta stop poo-pooing cool ideas and start thinking how can we implement cool ideas instead.

Heck, we could even use three fingered hands this way too (think: X-men's Nightcrawler)


I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
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[qutote=DesViper]We've got
DesViper wrote:

We've got "Finger number options" under hands, so it's on the board. But I do like the point that a pinky can be hidden with little change.

That's cool. I think I simplemindedly searched for "four fingers" and didn't see it but your phrase would cover more options regardless (i.e. 3 fingers, 6 fingers, etc.).

Huckleberry wrote:

Heck, we could even use three fingered hands this way too (think: X-men's Nightcrawler)

Speaking of the three fingered idea we recently got another good cinematic example of that with the remake of Roald Dahl's "The Witches".

In the movie Anne Hathaway's character (a witch) only had three fingers on each hand:


Of course since we now live in a PC world where everything is offensive to someone there was apparently a real life woman who only has three fingers on one of her hands who got all pissed off at this movie forcing Anne Hathaway to apologize for making "three-fingered people" look bad. *sigh*

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If it was acceptable to just

If it was acceptable to just have a bare four-fingered hand as a replacement, without support for any gloves over it, similar to the boxing glove option, then that would be much easier, I think. The bones, prop grip, and animations are very likely lesser issues, as people noted. But they would have to be thought about, at least.

I’m thinking, for example, where a power animation would be a finger pointing gesture. As long as the pointing finger is always present on the variant hands, that would likely work. We would have to check each variant to make sure the animation didn’t do something funny to the variant mesh. But that’s a lot easier than re-doing every related costume part.

We’ve already set up some potential weirdness with hand variants and props. I can’t see someone with the boxing glove hands gripping a bow, or a gun. Much less the arm cannons. Not sure if we’ve got anything planned to prevent attempting that, but it should be “it just won’t work ”, I think. With bare hands with fewer fingers, it seems reasonable that it should, we’d just need to make sure it worked okay. That’s probably do-able, at some point.

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Like anything else suggested
Iathor wrote:

With bare hands with fewer fingers, it seems reasonable that it should, we’d just need to make sure it worked okay. That’s probably do-able, at some point.

Like anything else suggested here the "finger number options" (as DesViper phrased it) is just an idea for the game. Some of the ideas in these suggestion threads will prove to be easier to do than others.

But I'll stress the point that not being able to have all the glove types for a unique hand shape or all the boot types for a special kind of leg/foot should never be used as an "excuse" for never having that special kind of body part in the game in the first place. Obviously we would expect you to have many glove options for the standard five-fingered human hand. But again I'd rather have a basic four-fingered hand option in the game that didn't have -any- gloves that worked with it than to not have a four-fingered hand at all. I hope the rationale behind this makes sense.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

Huckleberry
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Iathor wrote:
Iathor wrote:

We’ve already set up some potential weirdness with hand variants and props. I can’t see someone with the boxing glove hands gripping a bow, or a gun. Much less the arm cannons. Not sure if we’ve got anything planned to prevent attempting that, but it should be “it just won’t work ”, I think.

This is one of those interesting resource allocation issues. I think this is going to be a common question the devs will have to ask themselves time and time again.

I am referring to the question of whether to trust players with the responsibility to avoid wonky weirdness when they create their characters or do the devs put in hard exclusions like "this hand substitute excludes hand-based props." I firmly believe that the vast majority will try to create something that looks workable, reasonable and dare I say it, cool.

There will always be the one player who just wants to watch the world burn and will create the glitchiest, ugliest, most wonky character design that shows off all the weird eccentricities the avatar builder will allow like it was a highlight reel. But the question becomes: How many people will do that and how long will they actually play those characters? In other words, what is the likelihood of such weirdness actually appearing in the game? (and is it really a bad thing?) And is the development effort that would be required to prevent such weirdness worth it?


I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
Huckleberry
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Sorry about the double post,

Sorry about the double post, but I can't help it if no one else is active on this thread between my posts.

Suggestion: Blended colors
My favorite costumes in CoX had color schemes that blended from one color to another. So far, CoT only allows single colors in each color zone. I would like the ability to blend from one color to another in a costume the way that CoX did.


I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
Iathor
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Huckleberry wrote:
Huckleberry wrote:

Suggestion: Blended colors
My favorite costumes in CoX had color schemes that blended from one color to another. So far, CoT only allows single colors in each color zone. I would like the ability to blend from one color to another in a costume the way that CoX did.

Actually it's already supported, but most of the patterns use mono-color areas. Check out the male version of the Arcane pattern; the female one doesn't do it, though. It also works for material as well as color, though results aren't always as good as the color blends.

I was going to post a picture, but not sure how to do that here without having an external URL to store it at, which I don't have handy.

Tech Team

Huckleberry
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Iathor wrote:
Iathor wrote:
Huckleberry wrote:

I would like the ability to blend from one color to another in a costume the way that CoX did.

Actually it's already supported, but most of the patterns use mono-color areas. Check out the male version of the Arcane pattern; the female one doesn't do it, though. It also works for material as well as color, though results aren't always as good as the color blends.

I was going to post a picture, but not sure how to do that here without having an external URL to store it at, which I don't have handy.

That's good to know. I hope we get more costume pattern designs with blends in them then.

(edit: Happy New Year all you Titans!!)


I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
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Iathor wrote:
Iathor wrote:

I was going to post a picture, but not sure how to do that here without having an external URL to store it at, which I don't have handy.

There are many ways to do that but lately I've been using Imgur to upload pics to the Internet for various forums like this. It requires no account and is free to use. Just click the "New Post" button on the top left of the home page to get started. It'll upload your pic and give you an URL to point to it. Good luck.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

Iathor
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Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:
Iathor wrote:

I was going to post a picture, but not sure how to do that here without having an external URL to store it at, which I don't have handy.

There are many ways to do that but lately I've been using Imgur to upload pics to the Internet for various forums like this. It requires no account and is free to use. Just click the "New Post" button on the top left of the home page to get started. It'll upload your pic and give you an URL to point to it. Good luck.

Yes, there are many third-party sites where I could store images to link here, but I basically don't trust external image links -- after a while, they tend to break because the server has shut down, or the account is gone, or the server policy changed, or any number of other issues. I could use my iCloud account, which isn't likely to go away anytime soon, but I don't necessarily trust that the URLs will be stable, long term.

I much prefer the model Discord uses, where it uploads the image locally. Unfortunately I don't think that's reasonable on the forum server here; too much potential maintenance hassle.

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Lothic
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Iathor wrote:
Iathor wrote:
Lothic wrote:
Iathor wrote:

I was going to post a picture, but not sure how to do that here without having an external URL to store it at, which I don't have handy.

There are many ways to do that but lately I've been using Imgur to upload pics to the Internet for various forums like this. It requires no account and is free to use. Just click the "New Post" button on the top left of the home page to get started. It'll upload your pic and give you an URL to point to it. Good luck.

Yes, there are many third-party sites where I could store images to link here, but I basically don't trust external image links -- after a while, they tend to break because the server has shut down, or the account is gone, or the server policy changed, or any number of other issues. I could use my iCloud account, which isn't likely to go away anytime soon, but I don't necessarily trust that the URLs will be stable, long term.

I much prefer the model Discord uses, where it uploads the image locally. Unfortunately I don't think that's reasonable on the forum server here; too much potential maintenance hassle.

Well I guess there's always a chance any image hosting site could be shut down or otherwise drop your pics. I used "TinyPic" until they shut down a year ago but until it closed it was good for like 15 years.

All I can give you is an anecdotal data point for Imgur. It's been around for like 10 years so it's probably as stable as any of these sites. *shrugs*

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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