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Perky breasts: CoX vs CO

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Tnecniw
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why are you surprised?

why are you surprised? breasts are serious buissnes

Plauge and death... Let that come

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Tnecniw wrote:
Tnecniw wrote:

why are you surprised? breasts are serious buissnes

Correction. Breasts are not for everyone.

A subtle but important distinction methinks ...


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Tnecniw
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True... true. But boobs are

True... true. But boobs are fun =3

Plauge and death... Let that come

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Are we really still talking

Are we really still talking about this?

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Can we have a selectable

Can we have a selectable "boing boing" sound effect that plays when running?

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I wouldn't complain. though I

I wouldn't complain. though I guess that others would =3

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Nina Guardian wrote:
Nina Guardian wrote:

Are we really still talking about this?

+1

I saw this thread on the Active list again and was amazed. I mean, I know our culture is obsessed with breasts--especially "gamers"--but I thought maybe our community was a bit different :P.

Ah, well. As Serleena said in MIB 2, "Silly little planet. I could rule the place with the right set of mammary glands."

FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)

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Nina Guardian wrote:
Nina Guardian wrote:

Are we really still talking about this?

As a man.. I'm a bit ashamed of the amount of conversation TBH

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JayBezz wrote:
JayBezz wrote:

Nina Guardian wrote:
Are we really still talking about this?

As a man.. I'm a bit ashamed of the amount of conversation TBH

Yeah, conversation is a horrible thing... and so unmanly too.

It's such a shame that there's any serious discussion about anatomical sliders in this thread. If it was just boob jokes, and people complaining about boob jokes, it could be safely deleted for lack of relevance. Unfortunately, jokes and complaining are only the majority of the thread, and there's still that occasional bit of relevance getting in the way of completely ignoring the whole thing.

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It is a conversation about

It is a conversation about boobs... which is for some reason always majorly represented in almost all kind of heroic media. SOOOO did you expect anything else?

Plauge and death... Let that come

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From what I've seen of pro

From what I've seen of pro systems, the number of sliders for body morphing is almost infinite. I suppose it depends how many they want to expose to use.

Heck, Tera Online shows that there's even a slider for jello-ness of the breast (not exposed to players, but used in the obvious difference between human and elfs).

I'd even like sliders for things you can't see, like, ummm, disk diameter and skin tone, and not just size. Pendulosity (grandma Moses was mentioned) let the user decide.

Ok, in importance: hip and waist sliders, then general bosom ampleness.

This is going wrong.

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Gorgon wrote:
Gorgon wrote:

Ok, in importance: hip and waist sliders, then general bosom ampleness.
This is going wrong.

That sounds fine, except hopefully you have a perky or not setting in there somewhere...

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Like I said, the customer

Like I said, the customer char creator will probably be a restricted subset of the many dev sliders, most with restricted ranges less than what devs have.

While they may want to restrict for 3D armor (not just skins) reasons, I wouldn't want much restriction beyond that. Star Wars Galaxies had some good slider action, too.

Worst is severe restriction due to some "vision" of how chars should look. To be honest, Galaxies I had a ton of fun with a fatso. With horrible combover and mustache.

I start up a game like Conan, with almost no sliders, and just feel...sad.

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Do what y'all want with the

Do what y'all want with the breasts, just keep the walk.

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NightProwl wrote:
NightProwl wrote:

Do what y'all want with the breasts, just keep the walk.

I would like my walk back.

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Brand X wrote:
Brand X wrote:

NightProwl wrote:
Do what y'all want with the breasts, just keep the walk.

I would like my walk back.

Since this thread took a minor detour to mention "the walk" I'll throw out my two cents related to it:

I'd love to see CoT get a set of default stances (like CO or STO) that each included their own walk styles. As reference STO has the following descriptively-named stances:

Brawler, Creature, Cute, Feminine, Gruff, Relaxed, Seductive, Stern, Swagger, Thoughtful and Twitchy

So we all know how CoH eventually provided the generic Walk power. If they linked that idea to these stances then when you used the Walk power with the Gruff stance then you'd automatically walk gruffly, with the Seductive stance you'd walk seductively and so on.

To go one step further (no pun intended) I'd love for each costume slot in CoT to have its own selectable stance just like each costume slot had its own aura setting from CoH. This way you could have a secret identity costume that used the Relaxed or Cute stance then switch to a superhero outfit that used Swagger or Seductive for instance.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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Would love multiple walks..

Would love multiple walks...still want my CoH walk back :)

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Brand X wrote:
Brand X wrote:

Would love multiple walks...still want my CoH walk back :)

The assumption behind my last post on walks was that "the CoH walk" would be among the multiple choices. Like you I did like CoH's take on it, but it obviously did not work for every character concept. It's clear that "overtly sexy/seductive" doesn't work for everyone - I doubt even Wonder Woman would be caught walking like that, at least publicly at any rate. ;)

As always all I'm saying is more choices are always better, even if the ONLY choice we had before was pretty good.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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If there was a walk "power"

If there was a walk "power" out there, I would rather have it done as a toggle that most other MMO's do, where you can still use abilities whilst walking.

That was one thing that bugged me most about it. Not the actual *style* of walking, but that when you were using it you were totally defenceless.

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Gangrel wrote:
Gangrel wrote:

If there was a walk "power" out there, I would rather have it done as a toggle that most other MMO's do, where you can still use abilities whilst walking.
That was one thing that bugged me most about it. Not the actual *style* of walking, but that when you were using it you were totally defenceless.

According to the CoH Devs the only reason the Walk power blanked out our other powers like that was that it was supposedly the easiest (only?) way to give us any kind of walk ability in the game at all.

Apparently the way they "baked in" all the original combat power animations made it either impossible (or at least far too difficult) to allow for transitions between a new style of "walking" and the default "running-based" motion. Clearly that was a limitation of the old CoH graphics system - probably the same one that made the emote-based Fly poses so problematic as well.

My basic assumption is that UE4 will not be limited like that and that we'll eventually have some version of a modern "walk toggle" capability like you're describing for CoT.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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Wow. What a complex thread.

Wow. What a complex thread. From breasts to scissors to height sliders to walk animations.

Reality is a fine thing, but so is fantasy. I don't mind realistically proportioned game characters, nor do I mind game characters with fantasy proportions. The only thing that really bothers is how contentious anatomy debates can become. I am glad to see that has been avoided here.

Breast sliders = good, just one or many, I'll take whatever the devs give me and use it to diversify as much as possible

Total number of sliders, again, I'll take whatever the devs give me.

I am an unrepentant altoholic. Some of my characters (male and female) could be porn stars, others look like something the cat dragged in. Very few look like fashion models, but the fashion runway and GQ magazine have always been cultural sore points for me anyway. That functionality does need to be in the game if possible because there are many people who want their characters to look like they just stepped off the red carpet at the Academy Awards. Not a problem.

I do have one request: nipples, both male and female, even if just as a checkbox option.

Not every woman prefers a bra, not every man is sculpted like a Greek statue. I know some people hate the sight of nipples on female characters, but the fact remains, women have nipples and if they are wearing tights without a bra those nipples are going to be very visible. Nipples on a man might not have any function, but all men have them. They don't show up quite as clearly when wearing tights, but in some cases they do.

A checkbox for nipples. Is that too much to ask?

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Greyhawk wrote:
Greyhawk wrote:

I do have one request: nipples, both male and female, even if just as a checkbox option.
Not every woman prefers a bra, not every man is sculpted like a Greek statue. I know some people hate the sight of nipples on female characters, but the fact remains, women have nipples and if they are wearing tights without a bra those nipples are going to be very visible. Nipples on a man might not have any function, but all men have them. They don't show up quite as clearly when wearing tights, but in some cases they do.
A checkbox for nipples. Is that too much to ask?

Nipple checkbox? Sure I wouldn't have any problem with that and it would probably be relatively easy to implement.

But to play Devil's Advocate (and when have I never done that on these forums) even if you disregarded any issues with the "T-rating" of the game or other childish sexual fears/connotations concerning nipples you always have the criticism from the folks who absolutely hated the "rubber nipple" phenomena that we had to live through with the various Batman movies that will remain nameless here. I'm all for realism in games like this but somehow seeing a bunch of pseudo-Batman clones based off this joke may actually be a little disturbing.

Also as a bit of CoH history for you one of the very first nerfs that ever happened in the game (just a couple of weeks after its launch) was a slight modification to the female body model that actually reduced the amount of vaguely noticeable darker coloration/shading on the general nipple area of the model. This shading was obvious if you wore things like the lighter colored tights tops. Basically the original female model had default nipples and the Devs essentially removed them. I'm not sure if that situation means the CoT Devs would be automatically against dealing with nipples (either as a default or a player choice) but I'm just throwing it out there as a related FYI.

So even though having a checkbox choice for something like this would be great I wouldn't be surprised if it didn't happen for otherwise arbitrary reasons.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:

Greyhawk wrote:
I do have one request: nipples, both male and female, even if just as a checkbox option.
Not every woman prefers a bra, not every man is sculpted like a Greek statue. I know some people hate the sight of nipples on female characters, but the fact remains, women have nipples and if they are wearing tights without a bra those nipples are going to be very visible. Nipples on a man might not have any function, but all men have them. They don't show up quite as clearly when wearing tights, but in some cases they do.
A checkbox for nipples. Is that too much to ask?

Nipple checkbox? Sure I wouldn't have any problem with that and it would probably be relatively easy to implement.
But to play Devil's Advocate (and when have I never done that on these forums) even if you disregarded any issues with the "T-rating" of the game or other childish sexual fears/connotations concerning nipples you always have the criticism from the folks who absolutely hated the "rubber nipple" phenomena that we had to live through with the various Batman movies that will remain nameless here. I'm all for realism in games like this but somehow seeing a bunch of pseudo-Batman clones based off this joke may actually be a little disturbing.
Also as a bit of CoH history for you one of the very first nerfs that ever happened in the game (just a couple of weeks after its launch) was a slight modification to the female body model that actually reduced the amount of vaguely noticeable darker coloration/shading on the general nipple area of the model. This shading was obvious if you wore things like the lighter colored tights tops. Basically the original female model had default nipples and the Devs essentially removed them. I'm not sure if that situation means the CoT Devs would be automatically against dealing with nipples (either as a default or a player choice) but I'm just throwing it out there as a related FYI.
So even though having a checkbox choice for something like this would be great I wouldn't be surprised if it didn't happen for otherwise arbitrary reasons.

Seems like the 3D Mesh wouldn't actually show or hide it. Just all the clothing Textures (Bump/Normal maps maybe) that cover that particular area. :)
That sounds like more work, unless they could Overlay that normal map over existing clothing... And that's assuming each 3D Artist is using the same texture standards.

Or perhaps, the Material Instance being used has an X,Y Offset that the 3D Artist inputs after testing On/Off switches for Overlay'ed nipple bump / normal map(s).

Well, just from observations, i know CoH used a totally separate texture for showing muscle tone (darker areas), but I have to wonder if this can be made into a slider option so we can set the %.
Drawback is, with every slider we get, the more the Shader has to do, which might make it work harder... and on low end GFX cards, might slow it down.

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Greyhawk wrote:
Greyhawk wrote:

A checkbox for nipples. Is that too much to ask?

But...

I just...

I mean...

As long as we aren't heading towards a camel toe option here, more options is better I guess,

but...

FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)

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Obligatory:

Obligatory:

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Well it's safe to say that a

Well it's safe to say that a nipple checkbox/slider would equal more work for the Devs regardless of how easy it would be to do. So as usual it boils do to would it be worth it to the overall playerbase.

I suppose a reasonable alternative argument could be made to make them a default part of the body models - if they were built-in as a default it would probably be a lot easier development-wise than making them optional where you'd have to worry about two different states (nipples present versus nipples absent). But of course if they were a default feature then we'd have to deal with all the drama/controversy (legitimate or not) surrounding them.

It's a tough call but really as much I would love to have them realistically represented in CoT it really might be easier for the Devs to avoid them. Without them in the game you'd at least eliminate serious suggestions regarding the even more questionable camel toe/package sliders people used to always semi-joke about for CoH. Maybe all of these things could be included in the mythical "adults-only" version of CoT people have suggested in the past. *shrugs*

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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Well if we are asking for

Well if we are asking for Nipples.........

How about Whale Tails?

Visible panty lines?

See through yoga pants?

Side boob?

Under boob?

Belly buttons?

Cleavage?

See through clothing?

On a serious note though, I'm okay with not having Nipples. It's not a high priority on my list of costume options when designing a costume. Again, we are going for a T for Teen rating here, so we have to think about what options might push that limit a little too far. Nipples may be on that list.

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oOStaticOo wrote:
oOStaticOo wrote:

Well if we are asking for Nipples.........
How about Whale Tails?
Visible panty lines?
See through yoga pants?
Side boob?
Under boob?
Belly buttons?
Cleavage?
See through clothing?
On a serious note though, I'm okay with not having Nipples. It's not a high priority on my list of costume options when designing a costume. Again, we are going for a T for Teen rating here, so we have to think about what options might push that limit a little too far. Nipples may be on that list.

Yep as I implied if the Devs did give us optional/default nipples then with that proverbial "foot in the door" people could legitimately begin to suggest/argue for all these other "anatomically realistic" yet questionable features.

Let me be perfectly clear when I say I personally would love to see ALL of these things appear in CoT (well maybe you can keep your visible panty lines out of it). But I'm more than willing to concede that if many/most of these things did end up in CoT then the whole "T for Teen" rating thing would be pretty much out the window. Sadly compromises must be made. *sigh*

Revolution wrote:

Technically T ratings can have "partial nudity". The only one I know of for sure is Xenoblade for "jiggling cleavage" and "male buttocks" scene. I think with CoX as our guideline we will see some sort of cleavage baring costume pieces and, of course, spandex butts. Whether or not we go as far as thongs... The carnival thongs kind of surprised me in CoX actually. I'm not technically in the art department, however, so take this with a block of salt.

Yeah for what it's worth I would think that a bit of "visible cleavage" would be OK since that kind of thing is generally acceptable in most western cultures. As for the other things I'm sure the art department will "push" whatever boundaries are pushable in a game based on the comic book genre.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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Especially when you consider

Especially when you consider the wide range of potential flesh colors seen in the genre. ^_^

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BULGE

BULGE!

IT'S WHY WE WEAR OUR BRIEFS

ON THE OUTSIDE !

and yes, I am the same guy who's preaching about appropriate content on some other threads.
Humor can defend even treason

Maybe this will make up for it:
http://www.cracked.com/article_22054_5-nightmare-realities-having-absurdly-large-boobs.html

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***Warning***

***Warning***

Mature language, in other words...........Lots of cussing and the use of the "F" word.

I got chills! They're multiplyin'. And I'm losin' control. Cuz the power, I'm supplyin'. Why it's ELECTRIFYIN'!!

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I love foamy....

I love foamy....

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So long as the cloth moves

So long as the cloth moves WITH the breasts, rather than THROUGH them, I'm all for cloth (and drapery) physics. ^_~


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Redlynne wrote:
Redlynne wrote:

So long as the cloth moves WITH the breasts, rather than THROUGH them, I'm all for cloth (and drapery) physics. ^_~

Yes it would be rather disconcerting to see clothes swaying one way and bits of fleshliness swaying the other. Another issue related to this is that depending on the type of clothes worn there are clearly times where having even a reasonable hint of visible female chest bounciness would make little sense (i.e. while wearing full metal breastplates or tactical flak jackets).

Perhaps in the general spirit of "always give players as much control as possible" maybe the Devs could give us a toggle button for each costume slot to "enable/disable default jiggle physics". With a control like this we could better choose when it would make sense for there to be any jiggle or not.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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Everytime I see this topic i

Everytime I see this topic i think of a table of 20-40 year old white men sitting around a table debating the shape of breasts.. "They should optimally look like this.." "No no you know nothing of breasts.. they should look like THIS"

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JayBezz wrote:
JayBezz wrote:

Everytime I see this topic i think of a table of 20-40 year old white men sitting around a table debating the shape of breasts.. "They should optimally look like this.." "No no you know nothing of breasts.. they should look like THIS"

I'm certainly guilty of posting to this thread quite a bit but at least I don't fit into your presumably clueless "20-40 year old white man" demo.

For what it's worth this thread actually managed to lay dormant for like 8+ months at one point and I pretty much only post reactively to other posts I see here first. So basically I'm saying you can't totally blame me for the silliness that gets talked about here. ;)

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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https://s-media-cache-ak0

I got chills! They're multiplyin'. And I'm losin' control. Cuz the power, I'm supplyin'. Why it's ELECTRIFYIN'!!

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JayBezz wrote:
JayBezz wrote:

Everytime I see this topic i think of a table of 20-40 year old white men sitting around a table debating the shape of breasts.. "They should optimally look like this.." "No no you know nothing of breasts.. they should look like THIS"

Yes and no.

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oOStaticOo wrote:
oOStaticOo wrote:

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/5d/14/46/5d1446210a8096f40819665860350e18.jpg
Too much?
O.o

Looks about right for my Tech Origin Grav/TA Controller ... Topheavy Gs ... whose bio said she was forced to develop gravity control technology as a defense against the onset of puberty ...

I got a lot of randomly appreciative tells from strangers who took the time to read her bio. Why do you ask?


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Just checking. Some people

Just checking. Some people have a limit to how much is too much.

I got chills! They're multiplyin'. And I'm losin' control. Cuz the power, I'm supplyin'. Why it's ELECTRIFYIN'!!

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When you're angling for

When you're angling for comedy value those assumptions tend to change ...


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While I never really notice

While I never really notice it in game, I recall some of my favorite games had it!

FFXIV! In fact, I was surprised by it when I finally did notice it.

TERA! Well that one is just obvious!

Dead or Alive! Not an MMO! But it was one of my favorite fighting games. Not because of jiggle, just enjoyed it along with SF, MK, Tekkon and Capcom VS.

Of course, I loved loved LOVED COH and it didn't have it! Though I think those who wanted moving hair in CoH also wanted jiggle phsyics! Neither one really matters to me, I just want to like the look of my character, and a lack of hair/breast movement won't sway me on liking an art style (though it seemed to be a factor for other players in CoH).

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I don't know if I would want

I don't know if I would want to look it up, as it would be buried deep in the archives, but I recall an old Penny-Arcade comic poking some fun at Bioware's use of jiggle physics in Neverwinter Nights*. the point being this has long been a source of comedy and debate in video game circles.

*I mentioned NWN before back when this topic was new. Although it seems like a novelty if you look at the game's models, it was a nice touch, among many that helped make a game that launched with a dated graphics a success.

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TANGENT:

TANGENT:

Really, in the end, it's just if it looks good or not.

Of course whether things jiggle or if the graphics engine is up to date are factors, but if the art is good enough and best plays to the strengths and weaknesses of the engine, excellent look and longevity are still achievable.

We can probably all come up with instances of games that were ugly in spite of great engines, or that were only nice looking until the tech became dated, and other examples of games that just looked great from the get-go even without high-end tech, and so even as they began to look dated they still looked good.

In the end it's the artist's eye and the utilization of what you have more than bells and whistles. It's how you use the jiggle and how it all comes together.

And sometimes limitations can be a source of great creativity, innovation and beauty.

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Brand X wrote:
Brand X wrote:

Of course, I loved loved LOVED COH and it didn't have [jiggle physics]! Though I think those who wanted moving hair in CoH also wanted jiggle phsyics! Neither one really matters to me, I just want to like the look of my character, and a lack of hair/breast movement won't sway me on liking an art style (though it seemed to be a factor for other players in CoH).

syntaxerror37 wrote:

Although [jiggle physics] seems like a novelty if you look at the game's models, it was a nice touch, among many that helped make a game that launched with a dated graphics a success.

Empyrean wrote:

Really, in the end, it's just if it looks good or not.

I think it's obvious we all want to like the basic "look" of our CoT characters. That's pretty much a given regardless.

I've never really been a "single issue" player when it comes to what I'd like to see in our character models. Some people here have pushed for jiggle physics, some people want animated hair/clothes, some people want to be able to make chubby/fat characters, some people want to be able to make extremely tiny/large characters, etc. All those specific issues are more or less important to those people as isolated one-off ideas. But in a perfect game I'd love to have ALL of these options available. That's the only "single issue" I've ever really advocated for.

Now I'm totally realistic/logical enough to realize that CoT is NOT going to be able to deliver the perfect "all options for all people" character models that I'd want. It's doubtful that any MMO game is going to be able to nail that lofty goal in the foreseeable future. But even if CoT can't give us everything it seems realistic enough to presume that a game set to launch in 2016 will provide more options than a game from the 2002-2004 era. Just think of how much more advanced video games had become between the timeframe of say the late 1970s and the early/mid 1990s.

I won't absolutely hate CoT if somehow the character models are only as sophisticated as CoH's were. But frankly I'll be somewhat amazed if CoT doesn't give us at least some notable improvements above and beyond what CoH managed to provide in these areas. Not asking for the world here - just reasonable advances where possible.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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That they're using UE4,

That they're using UE4, already makes it that they're likely to have better detail than CoH. Art style will always be subjective, and likely a worry for all of us until the game shows up more. The city looks great, now only have to worry about the characters themselves.

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Ok, to take this tangent one

Ok, to take this tangent one step further--and I know there have been threads on this, but I want to see real quick what Lothic and Brand and those commenting on this thread think--when it comes to our character models, do we want an art style that is basically CoH but taken a step further on a better engine (ie., + jiggle and better textures, lighting, movement, etc.), or do we want CoT to have a more distinctive style?

I personally would like them to stick as close art-wise to CoH and it's look as they have in the realms of game mechanics and lore--meaning not copying, but definitely inspired by and sort of picking up where CoH left off and trying take the next step and doing it even better. But yet still very much along the same lines.

I know there have been discussions about this, that, and the other comic book artist as an example of a good look to emulate (because I've participated in them), but what about using CoH itself as the main art style to emulate?

Whatchall think?

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I've said what I want. Think

I've said what I want. Think Michael Turner and Tony Daniel (comic book artists) or such games as FFXIV (really nice human models in FFXIV). What I don't want to see is what I've seen from Valiance or games looking to be realistic.

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If I had the choice between a

If I had the choice between a next-gen "CoH style" and a completely different "distinctive style" I'd want CoT to definitely lean towards its CoH roots.

I think Brand X alluded to the real key here regarding the over-use of the subjective term "realistic". Many people (probably myself included) have used it to favorably describe the kinds of things they would like to see CoT provide. Sure having things like animated hair/clothes or facial expressiveness (like blinking eyes) are technically more "realistic" because those things happen to people in real life. But while I would love to have extra DETAILS like that in CoT I don't necessarily want the basic artwork/visuals to be hyper-realistic. There was never anything wrong/bad with the generally abstract comic book "look and feel" of CoH - the only thing it lacked were improvements to details (i.e. player selectable stances) that would make things better without tinkering with the fundamental artistic elements that made CoH LOOK good to begin with.

Hope that makes sense. I want CoT's body models to have realistic details/animations, not necessarily realistic artwork.

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I mentioned before in another

I mentioned before in another thread that I loved how CoH's art style worked with so many different themes. On the PC side you could have a robot, a guy in a robe and a woman in brightly colored spandex in a team, and they all "fit" together. On the NPC side, I could believe that Clockwork, The Council, Crey, and Aracnoss all existed in the same world. So that style translated to current technology would be what I would like to see.

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Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:

If I had the choice between a next-gen "CoH style" and a completely different "distinctive style" I'd want CoT to definitely lean towards its CoH roots.
I think Brand X alluded to the real key here regarding the over-use of the subjective term "realistic". Many people (probably myself included) have used it to favorably describe the kinds of things they would like to see CoT provide. Sure having things like animated hair/clothes or facial expressiveness (like blinking eyes) are technically more "realistic" because those things happen to people in real life. But while I would love to have extra DETAILS like that in CoT I don't necessarily want the basic artwork/visuals to be hyper-realistic. There was never anything wrong/bad with the generally abstract comic book "look and feel" of CoH - the only thing it lacked were improvements to details (i.e. player selectable stances) that would make things better without tinkering with the fundamental artistic elements that made CoH LOOK good to begin with.
Hope that makes sense. I want CoT's body models to have realistic details/animations, not necessarily realistic artwork.

Wut she sayd.

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Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:

I want CoT's body models to have realistic details/animations, not necessarily realistic artwork.

+1

I'm mostly worried about the 3D Skeletal mesh Animations. :P

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Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:

If I had the choice between a next-gen "CoH style" and a completely different "distinctive style" I'd want CoT to definitely lean towards its CoH roots.

Definitely! High resolution, more detail, etc etc are all well and good, but we have to remember the main thing here: Many (I agree not all) of us are interested in creating comic book characters, and comic book characters aren't really known for their realism.

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Speaking as a decidedly B-cup

Speaking as a decidedly B-cup woman, I'm tired of being portrayed with big boobs, whether in games or fan art or whatever. Some of us are quite happy with a smaller bust.

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Dynamistress wrote:
Dynamistress wrote:

Speaking as a decidedly B-cup woman, I'm tired of being portrayed with big boobs, whether in games or fan art or whatever. Some of us are quite happy with a smaller bust.

I'm curious as to how you're being portrayed with big boobs. When you're not being portrayed at all. :p

That said, as someone who's main character is not DD in size, I find artists still portray her very busty despite being told she isn't.

I have asked some artists (male and female) why they do it, the answers are usually the same "I prefer them this way" "I think they look better" and "It gets more views"

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Brand X wrote:
Brand X wrote:

Dynamistress wrote:
Speaking as a decidedly B-cup woman, I'm tired of being portrayed with big boobs, whether in games or fan art or whatever. Some of us are quite happy with a smaller bust.

I'm curious as to how you're being portrayed with big boobs. When you're not being portrayed at all. :p
That said, as someone who's main character is not DD in size, I find artists still portray her very busty despite being told she isn't.
I have asked some artists (male and female) why they do it, the answers are usually the same "I prefer them this way" "I think they look better" and "It gets more views"

"I don't know how to draw small-busted women without them looking like children."

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Lin Chiao Feng wrote:
Lin Chiao Feng wrote:

Brand X wrote:
Dynamistress wrote:
Speaking as a decidedly B-cup woman, I'm tired of being portrayed with big boobs, whether in games or fan art or whatever. Some of us are quite happy with a smaller bust.

I'm curious as to how you're being portrayed with big boobs. When you're not being portrayed at all. :p
That said, as someone who's main character is not DD in size, I find artists still portray her very busty despite being told she isn't.
I have asked some artists (male and female) why they do it, the answers are usually the same "I prefer them this way" "I think they look better" and "It gets more views"

"I don't know how to draw small-busted women without them looking like children."

I never got that one! But could easily be the case!

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Lin Chiao Feng wrote:
Lin Chiao Feng wrote:

"I don't know how to draw small-busted women without them looking like children."

look at some and learn something new. It's worth the effort.
Personally I don't like big boobs.

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TheMightyPaladin wrote:
TheMightyPaladin wrote:

Lin Chiao Feng wrote:
"I don't know how to draw small-busted women without them looking like children."

look at some and learn something new. It's worth the effort.
Personally I don't like big boobs.

You should tell those artists that when you run across them. I'm not interested in being the messenger.

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Sorry I misunderstood

Sorry I misunderstood
I didn't realize you were just adding to the list of common excuses,
I thought you were giving Your Own.

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Ehhh I don't like big breasts

Ehhh I don't like big breasts either nor do I care about the physics so I can't really contribute much to this topic either other then saying that there should be a choice for smaller.

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comics in general have always

comics in general have always gone for the stereotypical larger chest on females. comics main target are those young fella's, and the perception is that they (the young fella's) prefer bigger to smaller. given I pick up a pencil from time to time, I find that I fall into making breasts larger (I try and avoid Power Girl Syndrome though...not always successful though...heh) vs smaller. why? it's "easier" to portray the classic hour-glass figure...which again falls back to the norm for comic book heroines. have I ever drawn gals with a smaller chest size? sure...but given I am not a pro it takes some work to get it "right." ...that an I am lazy....and I primarily draw for myself. :)

is this good or bad? neither...just a matter personal taste...both in viewing and in drawing.

If contracted though, artists really should try and abide by the wishes of the purchaser. if you leave it open without being specific....it's drawers choice. while White Peregrine doesn't have to worry about the chest issue...I generally will give the artist a couple pics and perhaps a pose (if I have one in mind) and otherwise let them go. sometimes I like to see others interpretations...it can be a refreshing change from the stuff I do for myself.

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whiteperegrine wrote:
whiteperegrine wrote:

it's "easier" to portray the classic hour-glass figure...which again falls back to the norm for comic book heroines.

Hmm.. every time i hear the phrase hour-glass figure.. it seems to be vilified.

To me at least, its kinda like asking me to just pick one breed of cat that I like best. And of course theres a number of different ones. Some body shapes differ, and seem more streamlined. So, just because that person sees it as more streamlined from an aesthetic viewpoint, should that person be viewed as petty? :{

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I just think we shouldn't

I just think we shouldn't skip out on choices. I would use some of the alternate choices myself.....

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Izzy wrote:
Izzy wrote:

whiteperegrine wrote:
it's "easier" to portray the classic hour-glass figure...which again falls back to the norm for comic book heroines.
Hmm.. every time i hear the phrase hour-glass figure.. it seems to be vilified.
To me at least, its kinda like asking me to just pick one breed of cat that I like best. And of course theres a number of different ones. Some body shapes differ, and seem more streamlined. So, just because that person sees it as more streamlined from an aesthetic viewpoint, should that person be viewed as petty? :{

American's like to villify everything. It's like a big American thing. :p And forum posters ALWAYS like to say "I go against what has been proven to be the norm"

Of course, this doesn't mean the norm changes. :p

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Variety is the life of the

Variety is the life of the spices.


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Choices, good.

Choices, good.
No choices, bad.

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whiteperegrine wrote:
whiteperegrine wrote:

it's "easier" to portray the classic hour-glass figure...which again falls back to the norm for comic book heroines.

I'm not an artist so I'll take your word for it that it's easier to draw larger chests on females. Regardless there's no point in denying that the "norm" for the comic book female is the idealized hour-glass figure. Ultimately comic books are in the business to make money (or at the very least encourage the most number of people to read them) so they'll draw the characters in these books in a way that attract the most readers. It's the same reason the top-end fashion industry tends to employ super-thin, relatively flat-chested waifish girls for their models because (apparently) that's the type of woman that works the best for that venue. Body shape is dictated by what the given market wants at any given time.

Izzy wrote:

Hmm.. every time i hear the phrase hour-glass figure.. it seems to be vilified.

I think the reason it's "vilified" is that it represents a nearly impossible ideal that relatively few non-average women were born with and/or will ever achieve in real life. That's probably what makes it a popular/common body shape in comic books precisely because it's fairly uncommon in real life. Obviously there have been a few real women who've arguably come close to portraying these comic book ideals:

But clearly most women don't look like Lynda Carter did in the 70s and why everybody's bitched and moaned about every possible replacement (Adrianne Palicki, Gal Gadot, etc.) for Wonder Woman ever since. The comic book ideal is simply not (and probably was never meant to) represent real life. Nothing technically wrong with that but it is worth keeping that major difference between real life and comic books in mind.

Brand X wrote:

And forum posters ALWAYS like to say "I go against what has been proven to be the norm"
Of course, this doesn't mean the norm changes. :p

As far as I can tell no one's ever said they want to "go against the norm" that I've just reacknowledged earlier in this post. Having the choice to have characters IN AN MMO GAME range from "flat-chested" to "Power Girl sized" is not a covert attempt to go against the norm in COMIC BOOKS or an attempt to change that norm.

The fundamental difference between comic book art and characters in a MMO game is that players should have the CHOICE to make their characters look however they want. Unlike comic books no player has to conform to a cookie-cutter body shape artwork in order to sell the most comic books. None of my characters need to look like Power Girl if I don't want them to because I'm not trying to sell comic books - I'm trying to roleplay my own characters in a game. See the difference?

You keep thinking that people like me have something "against" typical female comic book art. If that were the case I'd be arguing for ALL females in CoT to be flat-chested by default. I have NEVER argued for anything as silly as that. I want to be able to make the typical comic book female just as much as you do but I ALSO then want to make other females that DON'T look like a Power Girl clone. I want BOTH types not just one type. That's all we want from this - why on Earth you continue to remain AGAINST this kind of player choice continues to remain a frustrating mystery to me.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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I forgot to throw in the

I forgot to throw in the other post, in which that was meant to be a remark to :p Always a poster saying "Well, I don't like this..." Which goes against what the studies show to be the norm. It seems to be typical forum poster behavior :p

I have nothing against people wanting to make flat chested or PG sized chested characters. :p My name sake isn't even typical comic book superheroine as she's not supposed to have the most common super power :p

As for the body shape which this seems to have gotten into, that's a different story. If the difference is a crappy character model that allows a circle body style versus a good one that limits one to hourglass, I'll of course take the second.

I'd argue CO allows more body type diversity than CoH did, and look how many CoHers took it's creator.

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Brand X]<p>As for the body
Brand X wrote:

As for the body shape which this seems to have gotten into, that's a different story. If the difference is a crappy character model that allows a circle body style versus a good one that limits one to hourglass, I'll of course take the second.

Why do we have to take either of your choices A or B when we ALREADY KNOW we're getting something in-between those two extremes?

We already know (based on what the Devs told us about this months ago) that the main CoT female body model is going to allow for a wider range of chest sizes than CoH did. We already know it will NOT allow for complete flat-chestedness (because again the Devs specifically told us this) but it should be much more forgiving on the low end of the scale than what CoH allowed. We also know that it will likely allow for more "chubbiness" than we could get with CoH, but it won't go all the way to "blob". Basically the single model will still have limitations, but those limitations should be less restrictive than CoH imposed.

Even when we already know all these things you still maintain this strict blindered mindset that the CoT body model either A) MUST be limited to only standard comic book cookie-cutter mode or that it B) WILL be limited that way regardless of what anyone wants. Your obsessive "we must have Power Girl or nothing" position on this topic has already been superseded by what the Devs have told us. Again why on Earth do you continue to maintain this semi-paranoid stance on this issue when we apparently have the compromise that'll likely satisfy far more people than ever before?

Brand X wrote:

I'd argue CO allows more body type diversity than CoH did, and look how many CoHers took it's creator.

I would argue that CO failed in this area because it generally failed in most respects, period. The fact that it may have been trying to offer more than CoH did is not a case against any game ever trying to offer more than CoH did. If what you're alluding to is true then no game should ever try to do anything better than CoH ever did ever again and that's just a silly conclusion to make.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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I think 1 million sliders are

I think 1 million sliders are fine, for ALL proportions. But it would be cool in the character creation to have a realism section/tab and a full customization section/tab. In the realism section it attaches many sliders together in order to appropriately change characteristics as need, such as taller -> big feet etc... Or for the OP's sake bigger stomach, bigger chest or vice versa. Then within the realism options they allow leeway to adjust certain characteristics and proportions whilst staying within the realistic realm. And then on the custom selection screen all options are independent and player has free roam of all options. This would allow users an easy option to have a "real character" and whatever they can dream up!

But as far as the argument goes I have to agree that for both men and women characters, the more options the better, whether realistic or fake I think beauty is in the eye of the beholder =3

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Kiyori Anoyui wrote:
Kiyori Anoyui wrote:

I think 1 million sliders are fine, for ALL proportions.

Only if you've got an easy export/import to text file function that allows you to easily "copy" all of those settings into a format that can used not only by yourself but also by other people. There's a reason why having backups is a really nice thing, not just for yourself but also for others.

Just about every single game that allows at least some degree of character customization has a forum thread pop up where Players show off pictures of their beautiful creations. Being able to convey HOW you achieved what you did is just as important as DOING what you did.


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Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:

Brand X wrote:
As for the body shape which this seems to have gotten into, that's a different story. If the difference is a crappy character model that allows a circle body style versus a good one that limits one to hourglass, I'll of course take the second.

Why do we have to take either of your choices A or B when we ALREADY KNOW we're getting something in-between those two extremes?
We already know (based on what the Devs told us about this months ago) that the main CoT female body model is going to allow for a wider range of chest sizes than CoH did. We already know it will NOT allow for complete flat-chestedness (because again the Devs specifically told us this) but it should be much more forgiving on the low end of the scale than what CoH allowed. We also know that it will likely allow for more "chubbiness" than we could get with CoH, but it won't go all the way to "blob". Basically the single model will still have limitations, but those limitations should be less restrictive than CoH imposed.
Even when we already know all these things you still maintain this strict blindered mindset that the CoT body model either A) MUST be limited to only standard comic book cookie-cutter mode or that it B) WILL be limited that way regardless of what anyone wants. Your obsessive "we must have Power Girl or nothing" position on this topic has already been superseded by what the Devs have told us. Again why on Earth do you continue to maintain this semi-paranoid stance on this issue when we apparently have the compromise that'll likely satisfy far more people than ever before?
Brand X wrote:
I'd argue CO allows more body type diversity than CoH did, and look how many CoHers took it's creator.

I would argue that CO failed in this area because it generally failed in most respects, period. The fact that it may have been trying to offer more than CoH did is not a case against any game ever trying to offer more than CoH did. If what you're alluding to is true then no game should ever try to do anything better than CoH ever did ever again and that's just a silly conclusion to make.

You obviously can't read. I've never said we have to have Power Girl and nothing else. As for why I worry about crappy characters models? Because I haven't seen anything towards the character models that looks good yet. :p

You may see the pretty city and go "Oh, everything will be okay." I don't.

In fact, I see art of characters, I don't find to be all that great, and see comments of "OMG BEST EVER!" which makes me wonder what "These models will look great" actually means :p

All I've ever said was "I don't want Alex Ross style characters. I want Tony Daniel/Michael Turner/J Scott Campbell style characters."

That does not mean "Power Girl only or nothing."

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Redlynne wrote:
Redlynne wrote:

Kiyori Anoyui wrote:
I think 1 million sliders are fine, for ALL proportions.
Only if you've got an easy export/import to text file function that allows you to easily "copy" all of those settings into a format that can used not only by yourself but also by other people. There's a reason why having backups is a really nice thing, not just for yourself but also for others.
Just about every single game that allows at least some degree of character customization has a forum thread pop up where Players show off pictures of their beautiful creations. Being able to convey HOW you achieved what you did is just as important as DOING what you did.

I agree with you! Just like Mids it's really amazing to see what people can do with the builds and it would be just as amazing to see how to alter your character and make the toon exactly the way you want it. That creates a nice community practice as well, improving on designs to make proportions better and/or more realistic. To bring it home if there were a bunch of sliders for the chest region, people could make improvements on past designs, whether it is classic comic perky breasts or real as it gets sag.

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Also remember that we're

Also remember that we're going to want the Avatar Builder to be perfectly capable of making "less than optimally beautiful people" simply so as to extend its functionality into the realm of making civilians and (deliberately) "ugly horrors" for the game as well.


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Redlynne wrote:
Redlynne wrote:

Also remember that we're going to want the Avatar Builder to be perfectly capable of making "less than optimally beautiful people" simply so as to extend its functionality into the realm of making civilians and (deliberately) "ugly horrors" for the game as well.

this depends really on how detailed they go...meaning we will need multiple sliders for heads/faces, to include but not be limited to, tattoos, scars, etc.

if they include a facial slider system...I'll be impressed, but I will be fine with static face choices, but if they go that route (static) I would like to see at least 20 different faces for each gender at launch.

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I kinda curious on how this

I'm kinda curious how this will work, since some of the NPC's like the Police Chief, i forget his name, McGruff?, won't be built* with the Avatar Builder. So MWM might not use the Avatar Builder to make a few NPC's.

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Izzy wrote:
Izzy wrote:

I'm kinda curious how this will work, since some of the NPC's like the Police Chief, i forget his name, McGruff?, won't be build with the Avatar Builder. So MWM might not use the Avatar Builder to make a few NPC's.

It would be pretty cool for MWM to dogfood the Avatar Builder for most of NPC's. It'd be a great way for them to show off just what it's capable of while giving them an incentive to improve it if it's lacking features that they themselves want to use. I'm not sure it's really practical though.

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His name is Gherrenfur, Izzy.

His name is Gherrenfur, Izzy. And I guess he will be build with the character builder, but the costume parts will not be available at launch, since they will be very specific and would only work for one body type. His uniform also covers up most of the body, so they will only need the head, hands and a tail. But it does not seem to fit into their methods to create a model they could only use for one NPC.

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Brand X wrote:
Brand X wrote:

You obviously can't read. I've never said we have to have Power Girl and nothing else.

Of course you didn't use those exact words. But it's very clear from the context of this...

Brand X wrote:

If the difference is a crappy character model that allows a circle body style versus a good one that limits one to hourglass, I'll of course take the second.

That you'd rather have a highly limited, cookie-cutter character creator that's only locked into some extreme ideal of perfection than to have a creator that pushes the limits by allowing a LARGER range of possibilities than a game written 12+ years ago allowed for. Frankly (assuming the CoT Devs aren't absolute idiots and/or charlatans) it'd almost be impossible for a character creator released in the 2015 timeframe to be less capable than one released in 2004. I would literally have to see that to believe it.

Brand X wrote:

As for why I worry about crappy characters models? Because I haven't seen anything towards the character models that looks good yet. :p
You may see the pretty city and go "Oh, everything will be okay." I don't.
In fact, I see art of characters, I don't find to be all that great, and see comments of "OMG BEST EVER!" which makes me wonder what "These models will look great" actually means :p
All I've ever said was "I don't want Alex Ross style characters. I want Tony Daniel/Michael Turner/J Scott Campbell style characters."

For what it's worth I'm not blind to the fact that we have seen relatively little of what an "end product" character might look like in CoT. As I've mentioned in other threads I've been working professionally in software engineering for decades so how would having that experience lead you to believe that I'm completely naive and/or 100% full of wishful thinking when it comes to the future outcomes of any software application?

Perhaps you can legitimately accuse me of being overly optimistic but until we see obvious proof that the CoT Devs have in fact "screwed the pooch" over this I'm going to reserve judgment and withhold any paranoid doomsaying. I don't know how much money you threw at the Kickstarter for this game but rest assured I tossed in enough that if I ever find real cause to "turn" on this game I would be highly motivated to rip it new ones left and right until the heat-death of the universe.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:

For what it's worth I'm not blind to the fact that we have seen relatively little of what an "end product" character might look like in CoT. As I've mentioned in other threads I've been working professionally in software engineering for decades so how would having that experience lead you to believe that I'm completely naive and/or 100% full of wishful thinking when it comes to the future outcomes of any software application?
Perhaps you can legitimately accuse me of being overly optimistic but until we see obvious proof that the CoT Devs have in fact "screwed the pooch" over this I'm going to reserve judgment and withhold any paranoid doomsaying. I don't how much money you threw at the Kickstarter for this game but rest assured I tossed in enough that if I ever find real cause to "turn" on this game I would be highly motivated to rip it new ones left and right until the heat-death of the universe.

I agree with you full heartedly, I put enough in this where it shows I have a lot of faith in the soul of the develpoers and the community. And with the move to UE4 and the many updates, I also am holding any judgement and will continue to believe in them and am here to support! But as far as the models, especially when using something like UE4, I've used Unity and know that there's a lot of in-house options/tutorials that would make it vastly easier(than 2004 standards) to create model sliders. I think it would be a shame if character creation was not one of the top priorities(under story of course)

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Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:

Brand X wrote:
You obviously can't read. I've never said we have to have Power Girl and nothing else.

Of course you didn't use those exact words. But it's very clear from the context of this...
Brand X wrote:
If the difference is a crappy character model that allows a circle body style versus a good one that limits one to hourglass, I'll of course take the second.

That you'd rather have a highly limited, cookie-cutter character creator that's only locked into some extreme ideal of perfection than to have a creator that pushes the limits by allowing a LARGER range of possibilities than a game written 12+ years ago allowed for. Frankly (assuming the CoT Devs aren't absolute idiots and/or charlatans) it'd almost be impossible for a character creator released in the 2015 timeframe to be less capable than one released in 2004. I would literally have to see that to believe it.
Brand X wrote:
As for why I worry about crappy characters models? Because I haven't seen anything towards the character models that looks good yet. :p
You may see the pretty city and go "Oh, everything will be okay." I don't.
In fact, I see art of characters, I don't find to be all that great, and see comments of "OMG BEST EVER!" which makes me wonder what "These models will look great" actually means :p
All I've ever said was "I don't want Alex Ross style characters. I want Tony Daniel/Michael Turner/J Scott Campbell style characters."

For what it's worth I'm not blind to the fact that we have seen relatively little of what an "end product" character might look like in CoT. As I've mentioned in other threads I've been working professionally in software engineering for decades so how would having that experience lead you to believe that I'm completely naive and/or 100% full of wishful thinking when it comes to the future outcomes of any software application?
Perhaps you can legitimately accuse me of being overly optimistic but until we see obvious proof that the CoT Devs have in fact "screwed the pooch" over this I'm going to reserve judgment and withhold any paranoid doomsaying. I don't know how much money you threw at the Kickstarter for this game but rest assured I tossed in enough that if I ever find real cause to "turn" on this game I would be highly motivated to rip it new ones left and right until the heat-death of the universe.

No, from that statement, I'd take it as it's read...I'd rather have my character look good versus bad and I'd rather take limitations on it if it means the difference between looking bad and looking good. And one can look bad even if the system allows a PG style toon.

Also, until we get proof one way or the other, then all this is, is posting on what we'd like to see and what we're willing to give up. :p

If the character model looks like play-doh...I consider that bad. :p I can care less how many sliders I have, if it comes out like that.

Now, do I think it'll come out looking like play-doh? No. Am I worried they'll look like Alex Ross was involved in the process because someone thinks that's great comic book style art? Yes!

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I'm curious as to what you

I'm curious as to what you mean one overwhelming style. Of course there will be different costume options, but are you saying we'll be able to have different art styles to the avatars?

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Brand X wrote:
Brand X wrote:

If the character model looks like play-doh...I consider that bad. :p I can care less how many sliders I have, if it comes out like that.
Now, do I think it'll come out looking like play-doh? No. Am I worried they'll look like Alex Ross was involved in the process because someone thinks that's great comic book style art? Yes!

Unfortunately when it comes to the "artistic style" for our character models I suppose we're going to be at the mercy of the handful of artists in charge of that. In some ways I think that's a separate issue to whether or not we're going to get "a million sliders" or not. That's a question of what the current technology will provide, not what the artists will be able to do with that technology.

BTW for what it's worth I'm not an advocate for having "a million sliders" if the system can't adequately handle them in a sensible way. Given that CoH only gave us a total of like 30 sliders (and most of those were for the face/head) I would think that even if we get the equivalent of a few dozen body sliders we'll be doing pretty well.

Again based on what little the CoT Devs have actually told us the body models we're getting will have many more polygons than the CoH models had. That fact alone means they should allow for more body detail which (regardless of artistic styling) strongly implies that whatever we end up with will at least look better than CoH did. Does that absolutely guarantee that you'll personally love the overall "artistic style" used for the models? No, of course not. But I'd suggest that the chance that you'll either be pleased by it or at least find it adequate is fairly high.

Take for example the graphics evolution of Lara Croft over the years:

This one dramatically shows what roughly 20 years of improvements managed to achieve:

Sure her "artistic style" has changed over the years (for better or worse) but the improvement in modeling technology has meant that her overall look has improved REGARDLESS of the artists involved. I'm expecting we'll see a simliar phenomena here once we finally get to compare CoH and CoT characters side-by-side.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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Just an aside, LOTRO heroines

Just an aside, LOTRO heroines all had saggy breasts and the NPC's and baddies had perky full ones. With in the last few months they changed that, it was little noticed, but I noticed. It was my primary gripes about an old game, COH predated it, and the character models and possible designs had taken nothing from the CoH aesthetics. I am sure somewhere out there is a game that did it better than CoH, but I have not played it.

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I don't see a harm in

I don't see a harm in different styles, in a world where one person gets their powers by spider bites and toxic waste, I wouldn't expect them to be the same style, looks or personalities. Just as well I wouldn't expect if I met any of you in real life that we would have the same style, look or personality.

And "1 Million sliders" doesn't have to be a literal interpretation, but as long as there's at least one more option than CoX and we "keep moving forward", I'll be happy =)

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Kiyori Anoyui wrote:
Kiyori Anoyui wrote:

I don't see a harm in different styles, in a world where one person gets their powers by spider bites and toxic waste, I wouldn't expect them to be the same style, looks or personalities. Just as well I wouldn't expect if I met any of you in real life that we would have the same style, look or personality.

Just to be clear I think when Brand X is talking about "artistic style" here she's not necessarily talking about the type of clothes a character wears or whether the player roleplays as "goth" or "jock". I'm reasonably sure what's she's talking about is the overall artistic direction of the game established by the art Devs. Much like how famous comic book artists have distinctive visual styles I think the concern for CoT is whether the collective "look and feel" of all the different costume items and even the basic shape/design of the body models themselves will be cool or not.

For instance there are many people who have strong opinions about whether or not they like CO versus CoH and much of the reason why one person might like one more than the other has to do with the overall artistic "look and feel" of the two games. Many people say CO looks too "cartoony" or "bubblely" for their tastes.

Basically Brand X is concerned (as we all should be) about the final artistic design of CoT. It's hard to be sure of that right now simply because we've hardly seen anything that could be considered "finished artwork" at this point.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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I gotcha, thanks for helping

I gotcha, thanks for helping me understand :) Well if it's anything like update #72 https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/missingworldsmedia/the-phoenix-project-city-of-titans/posts/775383

Then I will have no complaints, let's just hope they will stick true to this "Artistic Style" as well as keep it true through the 2D to 3D conversion

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That is exactly what I'm

That is exactly what I'm concerned about, and I think it's a big concern. Look at the CoH faithful when they saw CO's artistic style. It was either out right hate or slowly get used to/accept it.

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