This again, guis :p

Awesome. I've heard about you Warface. Or actually, I've seen a fanart/commission of your character! :p

Well Im allways up for some beta testing. My scrapper was called Wayne static ;)
Started playing on the US servers and then migrated to the EU servers.

Honestly, the phrases "Alpha" and "Beta" are more marketing-speak than anything. I've run into Alpha's that are more feature complete than Betas, and Beta's buggier than Alphas.

Doctor Tyche wrote:

Honestly, the phrases "Alpha" and "Beta" are more marketing-speak than anything. I've run into Alpha's that are more feature complete than Betas, and Beta's buggier than Alphas.

Or - in Rimworld's case, an "alpha" that is more feature-complete than some full releases.

Doctor Tyche wrote:

Honestly, the phrases "Alpha" and "Beta" are more marketing-speak than anything. I've run into Alpha's that are more feature complete than Betas, and Beta's buggier than Alphas.

It's definitely true that there's no absolutely strict definition of "alpha" or "beta" testing. The terms get used very loosely from one group of Devs to the next.

But at least in ideal scenarios the key difference usually comes down whether you're talking about "small scale internal" testing versus "large scale public" testing. Of course the situation gets more cloudy when you throw in qualifiers like "closed betas" versus "open betas" but even in those cases by the time you've stopped using the word "alpha" you've already gotten to a relatively larger and relatively public (as in 'not just Devs') stage in your testing.

Basically if the only people looking at the game are the Devs and perhaps a small tight group of friends/family I'd call that an "alpha", anything more public than that I'd probably call a beta.

Doctor Tyche wrote:

Honestly, the phrases "Alpha" and "Beta" are more marketing-speak than anything. I've run into Alpha's that are more feature complete than Betas, and Beta's buggier than Alphas.

In my never humble opinion, for the Alpha test all of the games elements should be in place. Limited enemies and limited questing, but the core functionality should be up and running and running well. If not, then you're not ready for public testing. Alpha tests are not to expose known bugs (those should be already fixed!), the Alpha test reveals the game mechanic bugs you never knew existed.

For the Beta test you should be looking at server loads, connection stability, phasing, community controls (bans, chat limits, etc.), and so on. The game itself should be running fine and have about 80% of the enemies and quests in place. Beta testing should be confirming you can actually manage the game once it is released.

Far too many development teams jump into the fray and release their game way too early because they are paranoid someone will steal their future customers before they launch. Don't be paranoid. Build a fully functional product that customers can enjoy and the team can efficiently manage. Just by preparing a proper foundation you'll be the one doing the stealing as players flock to the chance to play a better running game.

Or today when it's "ok, try and login.... alright, send the log file."

When those of us who have beta testing as part of our KS rewards get access, I'd actually be happy to get a list of tasks like that from MWM. Or at least an area of the game to focus on to see if we can break it. When I did software testing for a living I enjoyed finding typos and holes in the code.

Empyrean wrote:

I have no particular interest in alpha/beta testing unless more warm bodies are needed for some reason. I've never game-tested before and from what I hear it doesn't sound all that fun, BUT I'd be more than happy to do it to help out if needed. Actually, my wife might be much better at it than me. She's VERY good at repetitive detailed tasks (thank goodness, cause I ain't) and she's much smarter than me. And better looking. And more interesting. Marrying well is one of the few things I'm good at.

Sounds like she came into the room and looked at the screen while you were typing that! :-)

SpaceMoose wrote:

And testing does not necessarily look anything like gameplay, either.
A day of testing could consist of something like:
* Perform this emote.
* Watch for these criteria: X, Y, Z. Write down result.
* Adjust Arm Length Body Slider by 1 increment.
* Do it again.
* Repeat until at end of slider.
* Now repeat for a different slider.
etc.

Yep, been there, done that. I remember days spent on the beta forum discussing bugs and exploits with the devs.

and don't forget the character wipes.
or complaints of "Why can't I keep my toon for launch! wah!"

They need to test that the log can be sent manually before they can try to automate it right? Or that the log is even being made!

We ran into that problem with one of our robots once. Someone wrote up this wonderful code that would log 10,000 variables incrementally. So we implemented the logger and went about our business until an error occurred. We went back to check the log and it was empty. Turns out someone failed to mention in the "read me" (there wasn't one) that you had to tell the logger how to recognize the variables to log. That company had a serious problem with annotating code. 10 thousand lines of code and you'd see maybe 27 notes. Most of which were just initials to note they had made the change. of course if you were to call up whoever made the code change they'd have no idea how it worked or why they made the change. I don't work there any more. /rant

It sounds like there are some experienced and eager people wanting to help with testing. The level of detail that some have described is something that typically occurs on your side of the wall.

I'd like to know what in-house testing group you have setup within MWM. Are you doing unit testing as code is being developed? What is the testing schedule looking like now that you are ~18 months away from launch? What is MWM hoping to get out of Alpha/Beta/WhatEverYouWantToCallIt testing?

I've been playing MMOs since Ultima Online (even ran my own UO private server for a while; had to learn C# for that, seriously).
I'd be more than happy to break things and tell you what went wrong, in exacting detail.

Hi, yes, I've never beta tested WoW, I didn't beta test CoH, or Ultima Online. I've never beta tested Dark Age of Camelot, or GW, or Overwatch, or League, or any game for that matter. What I do have is a very specific skill set. I will break your game, I will laugh, and I will call my roommate over to look at how funny it is. If you let me beta test your game than that will be the end of it. I'll constantly update you on the hilarious game breaking bugs, and glitches I find. If you don't let me beta test for you, than I will wait patiently for the game to come out and continue to lurk on these forums. The choice is yours, MWM.

My wife makes great chocolate chip cookies from scratch! Put me in Beta and I'll bring a box of cookies still hot and gooey from the oven!

Hey. Don't throw cold water on my blatant attempt to bribe the Devs. Get yer own cookies.

You folks are gonna give me a heart attack making the New Posts pop up under the Game Testing thread...

Leowyld wrote:

Cosmic Greetings! (First post here, but been watching the site and development of the game from a distance for some time). I've been online since 1999 and have played a wide variety of online games, many of which I used some variation of this name on. City of Heroes, World of Warcraft, Champions Online, Everquest 2, Elder Scrolls Online are among some of the MMO's I've played most over the years. I haven't done a lot of Beta testing, though, aside from some of the "Beta" Free to play titles or a few of the WoW expansions but there is one Beta test I remember very fondly. And that was the one that was like an online second home for me for five years, Marvel Heroes. I was invited into that Beta in October 2012, eight months before its live launch. It had an NDA for most of that period, which I obeyed. I was the second most active member of the Beta forums and ended up becoming a steadfast member of the game's community and a very vocal supporter of the game itself until the very end, its unfortunate sunset last November. I had other games aside from that, like WoW and and Champions and ESO, that I played alongside it and that I still play but definitely feel like I lost a big part of who I was online for the past five years. So, been watching all sorts of MMO's, keeping an eye out for awesomeness. Reading through some of the forums recently and the lore and such, I see a lot of promise in this and I will be watching this closely. I would definitely be interested in testing, should that opportunity arise.

Welcome to the Thunderdome!
[img]http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-e2wZ_7G8m_E/Tt9oh9U-n2I/AAAAAAAAA2E/bt1IUQL5dTs/s1600/Thunderdome.jpg[/img]

We don’t need another hero.
We don’t need to know the way home.
All we want is life beyond...

THE THUNDERDOME!

I thought beta was far off like 2019 and the creation gen was 2018? A dated announced for the pet gen would make up for not having a game, to me at least. That would be crazy cool. We fool around in the creators for hours anyway right?

StellarAgent wrote:

As the Avatar Builder is classified as a part of the game and not a standalone product, beta testing does begin this fall. Once you have that, as modules are completed and added to the program, we will be testing those portions of the game as well.

We are still on track for a fall 2018 testing schedule.

Eh, this is kind of murky water. I would guess most people that aren't a CoT fan would not consider a release of only a chargen a beta release. We've also never been told that "as modules are completed and added to the program, we will be testing those portions of the game as well.". Or perhaps you could clarify? When I read that I thought of zones in-game. For example, CoT completed the first zone, maybe it encapsulates levels 1 through 10. I have never heard them say that they would release that as they work on the next part of the game so that we would be testing that zone and have a level cap at 10 or 15 or whatever.

As far as my understanding goes, which might be flawed, we'll get the chargen this year and then whenever the bulk of the game is completed with a level cap around 30 for initial release years down the road. I really don't think they are going to release in pieces as I understood your comment to mean. But, I would love to be proved wrong because I personally wouldn't mind that kind of slow release over time.

I'll add to what Doctor Tyche just mentioned with a quick but relevant story...

A few months ago there was a discussion on one of these threads related to whether or not we'll have the ability in the CharGen to "test drive" costumes before we commit to them. Basically there was a desire to have like a "test room" to check out the costume choices you've made.

As that line of discussion continued Doctor Tyche got involved and effectively admitted (or at the least [i]heavily implied[/i]) that instead of needing a "test room" for the CharGen we're going to have access to some portion of the -actual- game with the CharGen. In a follow-up post I asked how that was going to work and speculated that it might be something along the lines of how [url=https://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Paragon_Chat]Paragon Chat[/url] is currently functioning. When I offered that idea as a "reasonable guess" Doctor Tyche basically responded with a "Bingo!".

So long story short I think there's a very good chance that once they release the CharGen for beta testing what we're actually going to be given is a highly limited/restricted version of the game client itself. It'll basically be like Paragon Chat - we can create characters and then run around in the CoT game world without combat powers or leveling. I'm also assuming that at first we may only get to run around in a small portion of the city but it should be far more than just that "costume test room" that was first being talked about.

Again if what we're actually getting at first is essentially a "CoT version of Paragon Chat" then the Devs should be able to incrementally add features to that "initial testbed" and build up the open beta of the full game part-by-part.

desviper wrote:

Well I'd hope, like CoH, we'll get to test out power-aesthetics too.

I'm sure that will happen during beta testing at some point. But it's possible (actually likely) that the "power customization" parts of the Chargen will be disabled when it's first released. If the combat powers themselves aren't going to be ready for release then tinkering with their aesthetics probably won't be either.

Lothic wrote:

desviper wrote:

Well I'd hope, like CoH, we'll get to test out power-aesthetics too.

I'm sure that will happen during beta testing at some point. But it's possible (actually likely) that the "power customization" parts of the Chargen will be disabled when it's first released. If the combat powers themselves aren't going to be ready for release then tinkering with their aesthetics probably won't be either.

Power aesthetics are actually stored and handled in a completely different system. CoH's solution divided powers and aesthetics, making it hard to match things up when picking your powers as you leveled up. Maybe at level 0 you thought you'd want it one way, but when you get ready to pick at level 20, you decide you want it different. We're keeping them together as a result.

Kazander wrote:

Question: If we missed the kickstarter will we have a chance to download the CharGen and play with it? Or is that going to be Kickstarter backers only? Or is that what the second chance is going to cover?

Thank you for any answers that you can give at this time.

-Kazander

That is in part what second chance is for.

Doctor Tyche wrote:

Lothic wrote:

desviper wrote:

Well I'd hope, like CoH, we'll get to test out power-aesthetics too.

I'm sure that will happen during beta testing at some point. But it's possible (actually likely) that the "power customization" parts of the Chargen will be disabled when it's first released. If the combat powers themselves aren't going to be ready for release then tinkering with their aesthetics probably won't be either.

Power aesthetics are actually stored and handled in a completely different system. CoH's solution divided powers and aesthetics, making it hard to match things up when picking your powers as you leveled up. Maybe at level 0 you thought you'd want it one way, but when you get ready to pick at level 20, you decide you want it different. We're keeping them together as a result.

As always pretty much anything you guys tell us about the game is appreciated. While I'm sure this answer would make sense to someone like yourself who currently knows a lot more about the game than we mere players do I'll have to admit that what you said here is relatively vague and semi-confusing, at least to me.

You say "powers" and "aesthetics" are being "kept together" in CoT and that's fine enough. But can you (or did you?) confirm yes or no that power aesthetic customization (power colors, power animations, power emanation points, etc.) will be in the CharGen from the very beginning or not?

Lothic wrote:

Glitch404 wrote:

Doctor Tyche wrote:

Kazander wrote:

Question: If we missed the kickstarter will we have a chance to download the CharGen and play with it? Or is that going to be Kickstarter backers only? Or is that what the second chance is going to cover?

Thank you for any answers that you can give at this time.

-Kazander

That is in part what second chance is for.

So would this also imply (even in the slightest) that we could see the Second Chance go live before the Avatar Builder, if all goes well?

It could imply they are going to happen at the [b][i]same time[/i][/b]. The Devs have always said they wanted something "real" to offer us as a basis for doing the Second Chance thing. It would make sense that releasing the Avatar Builder would be the "real" thing for the Second Chance. ;)

True. I never thought of it like that. I keep thinking in 'phases' more than anything else. :P If there's even a likely chance to see the Second Chance launch at the same time as the Avatar Builder would be awesome. I would only hope a decision such as that would be decided upon before the holiday season where most people are really going to be tapped for cash.

I just wanted to say that the Volunteer Recruitment area has exactly 1111 posts!

Uh oh I just ruined that.