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Feedback for the Avatar Builder

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DesViper
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Feedback for the Avatar Builder

We need a place to discuss feedback for Titan Create. Not Bugs or Costume Piece Requests. Feedback, to make it more user-friendly and functional.

So, sound off!


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Pearly
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Sharing

Sharing
• The ability to export/share slider configurations for others

Sliders
• Have sliders that start in the middle begin at "50" rather than "0"
• Have customization with increments that arrow buttons can change the slider value
• Have the ability to reset a slider value to default
• Have some sliders with lower minimum values than currently present

User Interface
• Have the ability to reset customizations on the right side of the UI (e.g. re-centre emblems)
• Have colour/pattern/etc. features preview while in the list view to prevent having to scroll down the list to see another option

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After spending about two

After spending about two hours in the creator, I think I have enough for a first impression.

The Good:
- Materials and emissive effects on the parts are great. It can make costumes using even the bare minimum feel completely different.
- The number of slider options. It takes into account pretty much anything the player can think of when it comes to messing with anatomy.
- Overall good starting point that establishes a good foundation for what could be a great avatar builder.
- Being able to save materials was really nice.

The Bad:
- Clipping. Lots of it. The parts that go over spandex don't seem to be made with the sliders in mind. Having a wide variety of sliders means that each individual part needs to account for their relevant sliders before being implemented, or else they end up looking bad.
- Slider labeling. Specifically in the head category: Head 2 isn't actually a descriptive name, and it doesn't tell anyone what it actually does. It took a bit of fiddling with each of these to actually know what kind of effect they had.
- The camera controls felt pretty bad. Moving around felt sluggish and janky. Switching between the separate views helped get to spots zooming in didn't, but the free look camera didn't feel very good.
- Scrolling through all the materials and colors didn't feel very good. The colors in particular felt like they were organized in a weird way.

More feedback to come but overall my impressions are that its a decent prototype but it needs a hell of a lot more work.

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Sorry for the mixup, guys :p

Sorry for the mixup, guys :p I think we've got things delineated well now though.


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Kalartim
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DesViper wrote:
DesViper wrote:

Sorry for the mixup, guys :p I think we've got things delineated well now though.

This works! Thanks for the thread.

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I agree with everything you

I agree with everything that has been said. There is definitely a lot of customization that will be possible, I found the as stated above head 1-5 descriptors useless. I could not figure out how to change the color of items specifically eye and hair and spent a solid 2.5 hrs playing with all the scaling. I also agree the camera feels janky. I see amazing potential moving forward.

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I am still downloading, Are

I am still downloading, Are there a number of pre-generated faces to use?

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There are a number of

There are a number of pregenerated characters. If only there was a way of lifting the information on where the sliders are to make a given face....

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Pearly wrote:
Pearly wrote:

• Have colour/pattern/etc. features preview while in the list view to prevent having to scroll down the list to see another option

For me, this is the most important UI change request. I was finding working in the AB extremely tedious, so I went back to the old game to try to find out why, and this was it. In the AB, changing something like a material requires multiple clicks, whereas in the old game as you hover over each choice in the list the character's appearance changes accordingly. Given the vaster number of choices we seem to have in the AB, I'd say this is an even more critical requirement for CoT.

Spurn all ye kindle.

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I'm in Expressions and it is

I'm in Expressions and it is AMAZING fun.

You need to see this one: Start on female and set all the sliders to 0 except Smile 100, Enraged 20, Angry 100, Skeptical 100. Admire that face a moment. Now switch to male. Bwahahahahahahaha!!

OK, feedback. I'd love to see a dropdown menu of preset named Expression combinations that I can save new combinations to, because I could sit here and twiddle sliders all night and not feel like I had good control of what I was headed for, so when I hit a good expression, I want to save it for later.

After rapidly clicking around to see the vast number of sliders, I think this would be a good option for every subset of sliders.

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Waist slider is reversed from

Waist slider is reversed from what I would expect. Higher number is a smaller waist?

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A lot of sliders start in the

A lot of sliders start in the center, but read 0. Once I touch them, they go to 50, and *sometimes* the body part on the model changes. Can all sliders start pre-initialized with body scale matched?

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Do we have a rough estimate

Do we have a rough estimate for how many more actual costume parts we'll have around launch? Or a rough generalization? We got tons of textures/skins but it's very, very lacking on the actual parts, I'm assuming because this is the literal first release.

Puny Heroes.

warlocc
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Brutum wrote:
Brutum wrote:

Do we have a rough estimate for how many more actual costume parts we'll have around launch? Or a rough generalization? We got tons of textures/skins but it's very, very lacking on the actual parts, I'm assuming because this is the literal first release.

Parts are something we'll never really stop adding. Something I may or may not have overheard internally suggested that a big chunk of the money raised in the Second Chance will be funding even more parts.

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Right I figured you wouldn't

Right I figured you wouldn't stop makin' em. I'm just wondering how many you guys are stretching towards for Issue 1. Or how many you have in the current version, since this one is from March I'm to be aware?

Puny Heroes.

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Brutum wrote:
Brutum wrote:

Right I figured you wouldn't stop makin' em. I'm just wondering how many you guys are stretching towards for Issue 1. Or how many you have in the current version, since this one is from March I'm to be aware?

Like I said, I think I overheard talk of spending some Second Chance money on getting more parts made, on top of stuff ArtStrong and a couple others have been working on. Don't have any details yet.

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Hm, ok. Well it's still a

Hm, ok. Well it's still a good foundation... Just hope there are many, many parts to come in Issue 1.

Puny Heroes.

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I'm kind of have an issue

I'm kind of have an issue with the spine of my avatar. It's like he thrusting out his chest instead of standing straight. It just seems a bit too much curvature on the skeleton. But this is just my opinion.

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Yeah, for sure. It's much

Yeah, for sure. It's much more pronounced when you try and make 'huge' type characters as well... Something just goes weird with the whole chest and shoulder region I feel like.

Puny Heroes.

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warlocc wrote:
warlocc wrote:
Brutum wrote:

Right I figured you wouldn't stop makin' em. I'm just wondering how many you guys are stretching towards for Issue 1. Or how many you have in the current version, since this one is from March I'm to be aware?

Like I said, I think I overheard talk of spending some Second Chance money on getting more parts made, on top of stuff ArtStrong and a couple others have been working on. Don't have any details yet.

While I am aware that they might not be mutually exclusive, an emphasis on getting current parts adjusted with slider variation and camera/UI issues now would probably be way more beneficial in the long run.

@Bluejay on the Official Discord.

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A nice feature to improve

A nice feature to improve would be the ability to adjust the sliders with key strokes rather than the mouse. It can be difficult to zero in on exactly where you want to set a slider with the mouse alone.

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Highly agreeable, the

Highly agreeable, the clipping issues are pretty glaring right now.

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I find the entire process of

I find the entire process of building a character in this to be cumbersome. I'm going to make several more characters to see if this feeling is because it is new to me or if it really does have flow issues.

There is a list of things I can bring forth with confidence though:

- I'm not a fan of the color selection or how they're laid out. I could be wrong, but I vaguely remember a conversation taking place quite a while back about colors and I thought one of the options was going to be a slider?

- I agree with those above that have mentioned this. There should be a preview when going down the list of items in the patterns and details etc.

- I love the ability to zoom in to certain areas of the character, but outside of that movement is insanely slow for no reason I can think of? Should be able to move the character around and zoom in and out of wherever we'd like to.

Thank you for all of your hard work! :)

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rookslide wrote:
rookslide wrote:

A nice feature to improve would be the ability to adjust the sliders with key strokes rather than the mouse. It can be difficult to zero in on exactly where you want to set a slider with the mouse alone.

That would be a big help.

nekkidtruth wrote:

I find the entire process of building a character in this to be cumbersome. I'm going to make several more characters to see if this feeling is because it is new to me or if it really does have flow issues.

You are not alone. However, I think this can be fixed with some significant improvements to the UI.

Spurn all ye kindle.

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Cinnder wrote:
Cinnder wrote:

You are not alone. However, I think this can be fixed with some significant improvements to the UI.

Agreed. I keep going in to make another character and I keep leaving without finishing because the flow just isn't there. I used to be an avid Sims player and I can totally understand the attempt here, but for some reason the fluidity just doesn't seem to be here. I can't quite put my finger on it but I'll keep trying until I figure out what it is that's turning me off.

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Lipstick is drawn WAYYY

Lipstick is drawn WAYYY outside the lines, especially the bottom lip. This is a big no-no IRL.

Naked lips

With lipstick

Also, the lip curl is not symmetrical. Lip curl at 50 is the naked lips posted above, for reference.

Lip curl at 0. Notice how different the left and right are...the right almost curls up a little while the left does not. The left side looks exactly as expected.

Lip curl at 0 with lipstick; I used black so you can see the outline.

Lip curl at 100. Again, the left and right are pretty different...the right almost tucks down on the far side. Again, the left looks exactly as expected.

Lip curl at 100 with lipstick. The difference between the left and right is magnified by the lipstick.

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Also, it would be nice if they can darken the inside of mouths when they are used in the open position.

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I think there needs to be

I think there needs to be some sort of slider for this area of the back/chest. I don't know what those muscles are called, but they seem to be more of an extreme of muscularity that I would like to tone down. In think this also applies to the spine. Innermost part of the back and the outermost part of the back are incredibly far away, which seems to also be very extreme.


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The good -

The good -
* Body hair for men (Which is something that is missing from a lot of games). Though I am going to be spoiled and ask for more variations since this current one barely shows up in-game.
* A lot of options with material and colors.
* Costume diversity.
* Expands on features from similar, older games.

It's much easier to focus on the negative, so...

The bad -
* Shiny skin needs a body - face separation. I want my body to be wet, sweaty and shiny, not my face! haha lol. It'll be easier if it's integrated into the default skin, simply with check boxes near it where you can mark V on shiny face / body, or both.
* The default eyebrow (the first option) for men is the only good one. The rest are a little ridiculous. I'd like more usable ones...
* Only 2-3 functional hairstyles.
* The dark brown options for hair aren't dark enough.
* Black hair is way too black! Black enough to not being able to see details, texture and shine. In that case I turned to the darkest grey, but it's too light.
* Skintone window wouldn't fricking close.
* Android skin should have the option to remove spandex. It's really not needed. And makes it look worse.
* Default lower arm looks way to weird in my opinion. I'm not sure if it's because of the pose. But the way it arches out feels uncanny and unnatural. It kinda reminds me of crab arms. Thankfully, there's a slider that mostly fixes that. Still, it's is the default one.
* No jaw angle slider.
* Hard to create unique looking faces. I noticed that in pictures and everything, they all have different variation of the same face. The eyes play a big role in this, I think. There's something not entirely there with them. Consider adding more presets.
* One way to make faces more unique is to add facial textures. Separated from skin tones.
* Tons of clipping issues. Especially the belts and capes.
* Butt slider for men isn't good / isn't functioning properly at higher levels. It gives it a very weird, unflattering shape.
* Items that should have at least 2 color schemes only have 1. For example, the rose (where the flower and the stem are the same color), the belt (where the belt and button should be 2 different colors) and the cape (where the cape and the buttons should be 2 different colors).
* Material selection is messy and unintuitive. You need to scroll all the way down through a long list, there are no previews for the material, and they don't seem to have a particular order. I'd suggest grouping materials such as metals, fabric etc together in groups / categories that open and close as it would make the list much shorter and easier to navigate through. If that's not possible, then at least have them in alphabetical order.

This is all for now, I'll edit my post / comment again probably in the next update or if I have additional feedback. I'm sorry if my feedback is a little harsh, it's coming from a good place. There are things that I'd just like to see improved upon.

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Bubbleso wrote:
Bubbleso wrote:

* Hard to create unique looking faces. I noticed that in pictures and everything, they all have different variation of the same face. The eyes play a big role in this, I think. There's something not entirely there with them. Consider adding more presets.

Glad to see it's not just me. :-)

Actually, your whole post is excellent.

Spurn all ye kindle.

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In my opinion, the base model

In my opinion, the base model is too thick/muscular. Trying to get a more "normal" look involves tweaking tons of sliders all over the place. Why isn't there a "body mass" slider that allows us to get smaller?

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Also, spandex gloves and

Also, spandex gloves and boots need to come in 3 different sizes. I'd consider the boots right now to be "long" and we could use a "medium" (coming just below the knees) and a "short" (cover the area where spandex outfits stop, just the feet) length. Same for gloves

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I would like to see belts hug

I would like to see belts hug more along the spandex curve. The ones we have now are great and I'm sure are applicable to many costumes, but the only 'normal' looking one is "Standard". My only issue with that is how it doesn't follow the curve that leg spandex has on the waist. As it is now, there is no way small belt that can practically delineate between different patterns on upper half and lower half spandex.

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I agree the body is too

I agree the body is too "thick" in torso area. Abnormally so. I understand the want/need(?) to steer clear of stereotyping...but female superheroes tend to be slender AND toned. That should be an option and that's not something that can be done in the current system. The rib cage appears to be rather larger than a normal human.

I'm hoping the body types improve.

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Cinnder wrote:
Cinnder wrote:
Bubbleso wrote:

* Hard to create unique looking faces. I noticed that in pictures and everything, they all have different variation of the same face. The eyes play a big role in this, I think. There's something not entirely there with them. Consider adding more presets.

Glad to see it's not just me. :-)

Actually, your whole post is excellent.

Thank you! Same I thought I was the only one. The tools are there, there just need to be more options. I'm not sure how to entirely fix it but what I suggested will definitely help.

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nekkidtruth wrote:
nekkidtruth wrote:

I agree the body is too "thick" in torso area. Abnormally so. I understand the want/need(?) to steer clear of stereotyping...but female superheroes tend to be slender AND toned. That should be an option and that's not something that can be done in the current system. The rib cage appears to be rather larger than a normal human.

I'm hoping the body types improve.

I agree. I was trying to make a skinny character, and I was really fighting with the limits of the sliders. It'd be nice to have at least controls to make the torso thinner, even, because as it is now, it's pretty difficult to have anything skinnier than average.

It would also be nice if some of the face sliders were labeled better (I have no idea what "Nose 3" is supposed to mean).

The color/material UI is also kind of awkward. The material color buttons don't change to match the actual material colors of the current part, the colors seem really weirdly ordered, and the "shelf" is a handy feature, but there's no indication of what material a shelved color uses, and the materials themselves could probably be categorized and/or sorted alphabetically (Maybe a "Cloth", "Metallic", "Leather", "Plastic" etc. set of categories?)

Finally, hair coloring was just odd. I tried a lot of the browns, but they mostly come out blonde or orange on the hair for some reason.

Overall though, I don't have much to complain about, especially for a pre-alpha product. Once we have more parts and the UI is cleaned up, this shows a whole lot of potential.

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Something I've noticed with

Something I've noticed with the limbs when you try for a "huge" type character is that you're not able to enhance their joint size much. Elbows, knees, and hips all feel much harder to adjust in terms of size than raw muscles, which when you're making a very large character like Scaleback makes it all look off. If we could adjust the size of our joints and hips, we'd be able to make trunk-like body types instead of relying solely on muscle size, which is inadequate for this sort of setup.

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Dynamitochondria wrote:
Dynamitochondria wrote:

Waist slider is reversed from what I would expect. Higher number is a smaller waist?

You referring to the Skinny slider? WaistSize and Stomach size move forwards


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I was so excited for this...

I was so excited for this....was.

The skeleton - not the animation rigging skeleton but the actual skeleton under the torso skin...anatomically, is COMPLETELY incorrect.
The spine does not curve like that. The model has extreme scoliosis in that position. The pelvis needs to rotate the tailbone down and forward, the lower spine should then straighten by pulling back further underneath the torso, and the torso should not sit back so far away from the tailbone.
The spine must align better. That’s the big blocker issue I have there; it’s the biggest and most disruptive issue so far.
The femurs are too short and the knee joint isn’t scaling proportionately with either height or with leg changes. Right now the knee is kept closer to a 1:1 shin/femur length when ideally it should be 1.62:1 for a longer femur.
No scale appears to affect the lower section of the rib cage correctly; I. Fact I found none that shape it differently. Combined with the locked and distorted spine, it makes any other tweaks to scaling a character useless to impossible because it will never look physically or anatomically correct.
There is one scale, I think called chest mass in this build? It affects width and depth but not the same degree of shaping...width is far more impacted than depth, and too easily distorted to unrealistic inward levels when the depth is pulled to a reasonable spinal shape.
On that... the width for chest and shoulders can go unrealistically large or small, but the rib cage and waist are locked in such wide positions at their lowest!! It’s awful! These need some degree of scaling, either it’s a bug or a lack of implementation, but it’s a missed point of customization.
Skinny seems backwards as a scale, and only really affects SOME muscle mass but mostly makes the arms incredibly scrawny (which has no bearing on the forced-thicc waist).
I know it’s a bug, but it makes it almost unusable for me: the scales are not reading current data, positioning the slider, or updating on reload. This is awful and gets some scales doing weird things that I cannot tell if it’s slider index reference bug or actual problem with the mesh.
I have not had time to investigate face options or anything on the right side.

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I've come to decide that I

I've come to decide that I think the shoulder slider needs to be allowed to be much larger, that or the chest ratios need to be tweaked. You can't really seem to make 'huge' characters seem that broad or 'wide' with how it's set up right now. The various chest sliders can end up making the chest so large that it clips into your arms/shoulders even when you also have the arms/shoulders at max ratio. Also no offense but the current shoulder width in my opinion is kind of pitiful, max size doesn't make me feel that 'huge' just like a mildly bigger bodybuilder. I feel 'huger' in CoH or even champs.

Puny Heroes.

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Also maxed out hands seem

Also maxed out hands seem puny compared to the rest of the body at 'huge scale' so to speak. It's not like that in champs for certain, I have hulking hands in there. I suggest letting the hands be scaled much larger/thicker and what have you.... It's why my 'Alpha-Brutum' had those giant hand guns on to cover them up.

Puny Heroes.

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Also like others have stated

Also like others have stated multiple times, there is something intrinsically wrong about the spine for certain. Also something else sort of in general that I can't put my finger on precisely.

Puny Heroes.

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DesViper wrote:
DesViper wrote:
Dynamitochondria wrote:

Waist slider is reversed from what I would expect. Higher number is a smaller waist?

You referring to the Skinny slider? WaistSize and Stomach size move forwards

Lemme check...

Nope, Waist Size under Body category.

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Stomach slider - please let

Stomach slider - please let us reduce the stomach and make it flatter or curve in more. (It feels like the slider goes from 50 - 100 and left out 0 - 49.)

Textures - when i tried applying patterns, only 2 or 3 actually loaded, the rest remained blurry.

Until after now...

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Cybin Monde wrote:
Cybin Monde wrote:

Textures - when i tried applying patterns, only 2 or 3 actually loaded, the rest remained blurry.

That may be because of your graphics settings. Hit escape and click on "Sweet" and you shouldn't have any more issues with that.

An infinite number of tries doesn't mean that any one of those tries will succeed. I could flip an infinite number of pennies an infinite number of times and, barring genuine randomness, they will never come up "Waffles".

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Halae wrote:
Halae wrote:
Cybin Monde wrote:

Textures - when i tried applying patterns, only 2 or 3 actually loaded, the rest remained blurry.

That may be because of your graphics settings. Hit escape and click on "Sweet" and you shouldn't have any more issues with that.

Hehe... i just came back here to post that exact thing. It works wonderfully now!!

Until after now...

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Dynamitochondria wrote:
Dynamitochondria wrote:
DesViper wrote:
Dynamitochondria wrote:

Waist slider is reversed from what I would expect. Higher number is a smaller waist?

You referring to the Skinny slider? WaistSize and Stomach size move forwards

Lemme check...

Nope, Waist Size under Body category.

I made the same mistake as tech team and only tested the male model :p Good catch!


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I don't know if it's possible

I don't know if it's possible, but it would be nice if the eyeballs could be moved forward/backward in the face as a slider. If I want a shallower eye now, I have to go find several different face sliders in several different menus to make the eyes appear further forward.

Shoulders are difficult to bring into a feminine proportion. If I take down shoulders' width and bulk to 0, which does a pretty good job of bringing things into proportion, I get a funny lump:


If I then take down upper arm bulk to get rid of that lump, (which made logical sense at the time) I get this:

I still have the lumpy arm.

Lastly, the flying pose appears to bend female avatars oddly (haven't checked the male). This was the default female, so I haven't touched any sliders here. It's also difficult to get a good screen capture from the front because of the downward angle at which she holds her head.

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OK I just made my first

OK I just made my first character. For an alpha this is OK. But I agree with everyone above, this needs work.
I encountered pretty much all of what we see above. So here is my take.
1) we need the staff artists to make some dramatic improvements. specifically faces. There should be at least 20 faces to choose from for each sex.
2) I could not find a gloves option.
3) instead of a room full of sliders, make that the advanced option and offer us pre-made body types. slim, muscular and heavy muscled.
4) breast size was OK, Bust size just ballooned the torso. large breasts are slightly saggy, we should have the option for perky even for large breasts.
5) Obviously having only two hairstyles for each sex is very limiting...we did hire a hair guy a few years back, right?
6) eyebrows need work. the gals need slim lines of plucked and shaped brows. The guys need a caterpillar option.
7) basically we need a slider light option with stock bodies and faces.

My first attempt at purty. I spent way too much time with the sliders...we need glamour girls as a premade option. (this is a challenge to our artists, BTW) THANKS!

all this said I will be entering your contest soon

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Okay, got the builder

Okay, got the builder downloaded and ... wow ... what a mess. I know, I know ... welcome to Alpha.

Biggest annoyances are the sliders, since they don't "remember" what they've been set to when you click to a different set of sliders and then click back.

I like that you can click on the slider value (the 0-100) and manually enter a value there, rather than trying to parse the pixels using the mouse cursor ... but it's annoying that you can't erase the 0 while doing that. This means that you wind up needing to sometimes have 050 in order to get to 50 because you can't delete the leading zero before typing in the fifty, depending on where you click to put your text cursor.

Camera control is ... janky ... as others have pointed out. Since you use click+move on the mouse to control the camera, if you're wanting to spin the avatar you have to move your mouse in EXACTLY a horizontal line to avoid unintentionally moving the camera up/down along the avatar at the same time, which is annoying/frustrating. I for one would MUCH rather use click on arrow elements on the screen to move/spin the avatar so as to have single axis control of camera movement. Alternatively, it might be a good idea to have "camera axis lock" options in the UI that will "ignore" mouse movement input along a specified axis. That way I could (for example) spin the avatar while moving my mouse diagonally but not have the camera move up/down as part of that movement. I also found that if you're scrolling through a pulldown menu and you hit the end of that menu and keep scrolling, while keeping your mouse cursor inside the boundaries of the menu that you'll move the camera when you can't scroll any further because you've reached the end of the menu. This "flailover" condition applies to up and down boundaries of scrolling through menus reverting to moving the camera when you can't scroll any further on a menu.

The female model ... ISN'T female (yet) ... it's just a male drag queen at this point.

Is it possible to get the texture and detail listings alphabetized beyond the "none" default option? It would make it a lot easier to search through if it was alphabetized, particularly if you could click open the menu and type a letter on your keyboard to jump to that VERY quickly, so if you know the name of what you're looking for (or even an approximate idea) you'd find it a lot faster. It would also help to avoid repetition and put similar things close(r) together for easy comparisons.

I agree that needing to click on things to "enforce" their changes on your avatar is a UI speed bump the size of a sinkhole. It ought to be that mouse hover should be enough to preview an option on the avatar, but you click on the option to "accept" the change, making it permanent. Needing to open menu, scroll, click ... open menu, scroll more, click ... open menu scroll even more, click ... wash rinse repeat ... gets VERY OLD very fast.


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Oh, something else I noticed

Oh, something else I noticed while messing around in the AB.

There's no EXIT option.
I had to hold down Alt+Tab to get an option to terminate the program via windows without creating a character.


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Redlynne wrote:
Redlynne wrote:

Oh, something else I noticed while messing around in the AB.

There's no EXIT option.
I had to hold down Alt+Tab to get an option to terminate the program via windows without creating a character.

Escape key, same as leaving The Island. Don't recall how long it took me to stumble across that.

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Redlynne wrote:
Redlynne wrote:

The female model ... ISN'T female (yet) ... it's just a male drag queen at this point.

After viewing the "Credits" text file, ya might know why this is.

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CheezeBoy333 wrote:
CheezeBoy333 wrote:
Redlynne wrote:

The female model ... ISN'T female (yet) ... it's just a male drag queen at this point.

After viewing the "Credits" text file, ya might know why this is.

Not sure what you mean by this but the drag queen angle is not to be pursued further, Red.


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Foradain wrote:
Foradain wrote:
Redlynne wrote:

Oh, something else I noticed while messing around in the AB.

There's no EXIT option.
I had to hold down Alt+Tab to get an option to terminate the program via windows without creating a character.

Escape key, same as leaving The Island. Don't recall how long it took me to stumble across that.

Was my first guess on the Island, but I usually just Alt+f4 out of the AB


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The avatar creator left me

The avatar creator left me excited, overall! I listed some things to improve on and things I liked.

Things that stood out:
- The art style is awesome.
- Costume details are nice!
- Body customization/modification is cray cray.
- Faces look great!
- Cheese-Grater-Man (LOL) LOVE IT
- the OPTIONS FOR MATERIALS ... dayum
- Sliders are great

- The lower legs and feet are too shiny/white with the lighting hitting the skin for the default avatar.
- With drop down menus, clicking and reopening to change a pattern/material doesn't feel very smooth. I would highly recommend making it so that hovering over an item with your mouse automatically preview's the pattern/material from the drop down menus; This would allow for faster previewing than opening drop down menu, scrolling, clicking option, and repeating through the hundreds of options.
- The skeleton/ overall body proportions look a bit awkward/unnatural. I'm not sure what to recommend for this but I see a previous comment by @summer-heat has great info.
- Leg muscle areas need more definition/detail. Upper body can get pretty defined but lower body details are not as noticeable when making a "ripped" character.
- Pre-made face options should be included for
- Need more skin tones. I noticed that you can be very pale or very tan for "white person" avatars, should have something in between/ natural not tanned.
- Some hair styles look unrealistic even with a skull cap. The hair is not close enough to the scalp or hair line.
- Camera controls were sluggish when zooming in and out. Possibly add a zoom in to each body section?
- When moving the camera upwards, I noticed a round object blocking the view of your character; It obstructs the view of your character if your character is taller.

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Several things after trying

Several things after trying to remake my main to start.

IMAGE(https://i.ibb.co/Jp7ByfX/City-Of-Titans01.jpg)

The shoulders are impossible to make female.. There is a bone of somesorts sticking out which prevents the shoulder to be round. No matter how I adjust the bulk or arm.

Also. This hairlength is the longest I could get it.

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This fly pose is off.. The

IMAGE(https://i.ibb.co/pbQLk64/City-Of-Titans02.jpg)

This fly pose is off.. The feet clip with each other even without any shoes or boots. The feet should be slight next to each other and not trying to go behind each other. Even without clipping that would make the flyer most likely to stumble over her own feet on landing.

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The feet are animated to '

IMAGE(https://i.ibb.co/G9xSHMv/City-Of-Titans03.jpg)

The feet are animated to ' flat' and the ancles to prominent. But that can be ignored. What I do have a problem with is that those hands are NOT in a fist.That is the idea of this pose. Making a fist means hands are fully closed.

Also.. though I didnt really wanted bigger boobs.. The slider to change boob size adjusted more of the torso then the boobs itself. There is no good way to make believable big boobs.

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One of the things that always

IMAGE(https://i.ibb.co/mzv86ZV/City-Of-Titans04.jpg)

One of the things that always annoyed me in spandex was that the neck/clothing lines where NOT really clothing lines. Though the software acts like it is body paint the end product should not. I need a clothing line on these edges to give the outfit mass. Otherwise its bodypaint and not spandex. Also the edge as is is pixelled. And my hardware can handle the highest resultion.

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The interface has a problem

IMAGE(https://i.ibb.co/bJjg06W/City-Of-Titans05.jpg)

The interface has a problem with defining facial hair. Facial hair is including beards, So there shouldnt be a seperate icon for that. Again... I like the lenghth of my hair longer... and for some maybe even longer longer. We are talking superheroes here. Maybe someone like to make a Geisha with super long hair.

Not only do we want longer hair. We also need way more different styles and the icons to the right ofcourse should also shift to a female face when the female body is selected.

The texture of the lipstick might be a little better. The lipstick goes over the edges as already told before. I adjusted that by first applying the lipstick then make the lips smaller. But this is a workaround.

Aside from that.. To avoid re4al freaks walking around facial hair option should be shutoff when the female build is selected. Do not expect everyone to be creative enough to make something nice. Help with muscle sliders for full body and to prevent extreme weird stuff. Alien build sure.. Distorted clipping build no.

When the UI is shut off the animation arrow doesnt remove itself. This is not what you want as you shutoff the ui to have a screenshot without any. When you press the animation arrow it should turn into a pauze button. So people know that pressing the same arrow would stop the animation.

With animation being able to open the mouth (and the fact that my main character is a vampire) I noticed something else... There are no teeth in the form! Meaning open mouth looks weird and might never get used. It is not even dark to give depth. The inside needs to be partly created. Teeth and a tongue and the rest black will be enough. That also would give options for the teeth...: Human; Human oversized; Two fangs close to gther in the middle; vampire fangs; All teeth sharp; zombie rotting teeth; no / pulled out teeth.

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Okay, looking at these other

Okay, looking at these other screenshots that people have been providing ... there has GOT TO BE something wrong with my install of the builder, and I'm starting to think that it's almost certainly going to be the video drivers.

Why?

Because my avatar builder simply doesn't "look like" what I'm seeing posted from other people here.
For one thing, I've got a AMD Radeon HD 6970M 2048 MB graphics card from 2011 installed in my 2011 iMac that uses Boot Camp to run Windows 10. Getting drivers for it these days, since the card is beyond end of production starts getting really hard to find. It's also rather obsolete by now (almost 9 years old) and I figure that UE4 is probably making function calls to it that aren't parsing correctly, yielding the rather bizarre images I see on my screen but don't see on anyone else's screenshots.

Guess I need to clean load my video drivers (again) on the Windows side of my computer in order to make this all work. :(


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Y'all are gonna hate me for

Redlynne, some people have said that changing the graphics option to "Sweet" helped out a lot. [esc]-->Graphics Settings-->Sweet
Mine doesn't appear to let me switch between the options, though.

Y'all (the devs) are gonna hate me for sure, but trying to replicate an actual person highlighted some omissions and/or tweaks that could be made.

CHINS: perhaps a slider for a dimple/cleft? I know someone wants to make an homage to The Tick!
JAWS: a way to move the actual jaw joint up and down instead of the whole bone; also, the ability to adjust the...padding? fat? skin?...over the jawline. I could not find a way to do that, but if I'm just overlooking it, please let me know.


CHEEKS: an apple-puffer-outer (that's the technical term!) and the ability to move it around on the face.
MOUTH: I've already addressed the lip curl inconsistency, but it might be nice to add a nasolabial fold between the nose and mouth when 1. we turn up the smile and 2. we turn up the lip curl more than some preset amount. OR just make it a slider, LOL...what's one more?

Not asking for much, am I? Seriously though, you guys have done an AMAZING job so far, especially considering this is only an alpha or early beta release!

"Why clean the house when you can be saving the WORLD?!?" ~Justice Wraith

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The female model does seem

The female model does seem kinda.... manly to be honest.

Puny Heroes.

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Yep the consensus is the

Yep the consensus is the female model needs work

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I would really love the

I would really love the option to be able to save costumes without saving any body or face characteristics. That way, you can apply preset costumes to your character after you've spent a ton of time figuring out their physical appearance.

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I think we're getting that

I think we're getting that based on the way the avatars save in pieces; it just may be later in coming. I do wonder what .chr and .cstm are, though...________ and powers?

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Oh! That'd be really useful

Oh! That'd be really useful for Supergroups as well, since you'd be easily able to share around your SG's uniform to everybody.

An infinite number of tries doesn't mean that any one of those tries will succeed. I could flip an infinite number of pennies an infinite number of times and, barring genuine randomness, they will never come up "Waffles".

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Redlynne wrote:
Redlynne wrote:

Okay, looking at these other screenshots that people have been providing ... there has GOT TO BE something wrong with my install of the builder, and I'm starting to think that it's almost certainly going to be the video drivers.

Why?

Because my avatar builder simply doesn't "look like" what I'm seeing posted from other people here.
For one thing, I've got a AMD Radeon HD 6970M 2048 MB graphics card from 2011 installed in my 2011 iMac that uses Boot Camp to run Windows 10. Getting drivers for it these days, since the card is beyond end of production starts getting really hard to find. It's also rather obsolete by now (almost 9 years old) and I figure that UE4 is probably making function calls to it that aren't parsing correctly, yielding the rather bizarre images I see on my screen but don't see on anyone else's screenshots.

Guess I need to clean load my video drivers (again) on the Windows side of my computer in order to make this all work. :(

Red, this is a known issue for AMD drivers. On the options menu there is a button (bar) for graphics settings. Use Sweet! and that will resolve the graphics issues you are having.


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Hello! I have run into a few

Hello! I have run into a few issues trying to make a petite female hero, a lot have been mentioned so far but here's what I've found.

pattern ballooning like this is a little disheartening

the crotch area is very strange

the back/spine/pevis area are all a bit distorted in certain poses

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OK, first, how do you take

OK, first, how do you take screenshots in the costume creator?

Now, as to comments:

GOOD:

* Textures provide a great deal of flexibility, including the ability to turn underwear into armor.

* Love the high-collar cape! Please add a version where the inside of the cape can be colored differently from the outside, and a version where the metal neck hardware is removed, allowing amulets to be worn with it.

* Love the flame auras! Please put them in the right menus on the UI (Currently they are all off of the "Whole Body Aura" menu, when there exist unused menus for "Head Aura," "Hand Aura," etc.).

BAD:

* "Mute Audio" does not in fact mute the audio.

* VERY few costume pieces, even for so early in the game's existence

* Most of the existing costume pieces fail to activate on female characters.

*Although I'm not opposed to clipping in all cases, form-fitting items like masks, cowls, gloves, and so forth should not clip through the body parts they are supposed to cover, and vice versa.

*The sliders are very weird, as many people have said already. I agree with the suggestion for 20 male and 20 female pre-made faces. I further suggest the following pre-made body types for each gender: Average, Slim Low-Definition, Slim High-Definition, Typical Body-Builder, and HUGE Body-Builder (e.g. Hulk).

Also, I propose that there should be a one-to-one relationship between sliders and their related body parts. In other words, there should be one, and only one, slider that affects waist size, for example.

UGLY:

*It should be possible to blend at least two different colors together in hair, and perhaps other costume parts as well.
*More distinct hair colors are needed, especially in the broad area of black/brown.

Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.

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The "mute audio" does not

The "mute audio" does not work..

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Elizabeth Bathory wrote:
Elizabeth Bathory wrote:

Aside from that.. To avoid re4al freaks walking around facial hair option should be shutoff when the female build is selected.

I wholeheartedly disagree. Someone wants to make a lady with a beard, let them. All options for all builds.

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I kinda lost interest in the

I kinda lost interest in the female after fighting with the body sliders. those linebacker shoulders and neck are just.. ugh. when will those be fixed? maybe its a rigging issue? or a wholely female body?

“If every vampire who said he was at the crucifixion was actually there, it would have been like Woodstock.”

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Tannim222 wrote:
Tannim222 wrote:

Red, this is a known issue for AMD drivers. On the options menu there is a button (bar) for graphics settings. Use Sweet! and that will resolve the graphics issues you are having.

Now they tell me ...

Brutum wrote:

The female model does seem kinda.... manly to be honest.

Cyclops wrote:

Yep the consensus is the female model needs work

That's what I was getting at. The female model has an appearance of having a man's head/face rather than a woman's head/face.
Now I presume that this is something that will get worked on at some point (doesn't have to be a drop everything so as to do it RIGHT NAO kind of thing) ... but it most definitely needs to be on the white board for things that need to get done.

Might I suggest that looking at pictures of real life women who are bald (or women actresses in movies portraying characters who are bald) might make for a good library of reference material to start from?

For example ...


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PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT!

PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT!

Do not... I repeat, do NOT turn all the expression sliders all the way up at once.

Some things can never be unseen.

FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)

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Okay i want a like button for

Okay i want a like button for this..

“If every vampire who said he was at the crucifixion was actually there, it would have been like Woodstock.”

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The worst part is... it moves

The worst part is... it moves...

IT MOVES!!!

FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)

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CallmeBlue wrote:
CallmeBlue wrote:

OK, first, how do you take screenshots in the costume creator?

The same way you take screenshots in any program on a computer. Press the “screen print” key on your keyboard then paste into your picture program of choice. (I use MS Paint.)

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I started playing with

I started playing with turning up the expressions. I turned up two of them and stopped. I recognized the danger of what I was doing and stopped.

I understand now why we haven't seen so many female characters. It's super hard to something look nice. I made a half decent androgynous android in my attempt to make a woman.

I wonder how much of the character is defined by the art style. Is the exceptional spine angle and bulkiness part of the character design?

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You guys should try a spin at

You guys should try a spin at making real huge or hulk inspired type characters. I feel like the issues for them are just as present as they are for the female model. It almost seems like the whole thing just needs completely reworked.

Puny Heroes.

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We really just need 3 body

We really just need 3 body styles for each sex, slim, heroic, and hulk. 90% of the sliders can go. With enough stock heads and hair styles every toon will be unique.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Simplicity ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ always make it simple.

Empyrean
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Brutum wrote:
Brutum wrote:

You guys should try a spin at making real huge or hulk inspired type characters. I feel like the issues for them are just as present as they are for the female model. It almost seems like the whole thing just needs completely reworked.

From what I've seen I think there's lots of potential... and LOTS of work to do.

Cyclops wrote:

We really just need 3 body styles for each sex, slim, heroic, and hulk. 90% of the sliders can go. With enough stock heads and hair styles every toon will be unique.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Simplicity ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ always make it simple.

That is only true for those who want to make basically human heroes/villains. I like the idea of 3 stock bodies for each type, but why take away sliders that don't cause problems ingame from those who would like them? That just sounds like imposing your particular aesthetic--and that's coming from someone who generally only makes human heroes.

Sure, 3 for each type for those who just want human heroes and villains, but leave a place where those who want to do more can access sliders.

FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)

Brutum
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Yeah, I can agree with that.

Yeah, I can agree with that. And if they get the sliders working properly they shouldn't really need 'body styles'. Though it wouldn't hurt if they had those options as presets or something.

Puny Heroes.

Fireheart
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Isn't that what we had in CoH

Isn't that what we had in CoH? Moddable Presets? If the presets looked 'good', rather than 'uncanny valley' they would be useful.

Be Well!
Fireheart

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Overall design and layout

Overall design and layout seems very good, I didn't have many problems figuring out what buttons to push to do the things I wanted to do.

The following info applies to all comments below:
I only built one character so far, a female who was a bit tall and skinny.
System info: Macbook Pro 2016 with the Radeon Pro 460 discrete GPU. Native display is 2880x1800. Running under Windows 10 via Bootcamp, Windows screen resolution scaled to 1920x1080 and 125% scale factor, which is what seems to work best with other games.

Areas I felt had unexpected behaviors or friction (as opposed to being outright bugs/missing assets):

- Save/Load: The sample characters are useful, but user characters are sorted in among them, which is annoying. I suggest sorting all user character to the top of the menu list, with a divider line and the pre-gens below. The pre-gens should also be read-only, I didn't dare try modifying one to see if it was writeable...

- Slider polarity: some of the sliders seem to work backwards, notably: waist, chin width, jaw width, maybe jaw height

- Took me a while to figure out where the eye color was, I was expecting to find it with the eye setting sliders on the left side. The fact that there is also an "Eye" setting under "Head" on the right side is unexpected. I understand why this happens from a programming point of view, but it's not user-friendly. Maybe you could at least put an "Eye Color" button at the bottom of the slider set for the left-side Eye settings, that effectively clicked the "Head/Eye" button on the right. Or maybe just do that automatically when the Eye option on the left side is chosen, so the various materials on the right would affect the eyeball object when the Eye sliders are open.

- I missed having a height measure, and didn't realize my character was over-tall until I compared her to a doorway on the test map. I understand there will be a police lineup background in the AB to fix this. Might be good to also include a door height and a ceiling height marker on that, even if the character height will be constrained programmatically to not bump into things in indoor maps. I may not want a character that "barely fits", especially if this interacts badly with how the camera works indoors.

- The spandex layer seems to have duplicate sets of controls on the right side, once under Spandex/TopSpandex,/BottomSpandex and a separate set under Torso/Tights and Legs/Tights. Maybe these are two different things in actuality, but I don't understand the difference in that case.

- Some of the tooltips, notably for the sliders on the left and the camera buttons in the lower right, rendered in a tiny font that was nearly unreadable (like about 5-6 point). Other tooltips were much better. They should all be legible.

- The side-scrolling gallery of costume pieces drove me crazy for some reason; I think it's because I'm using a vertical scroll trackpad gesture to scroll something sideways, which is disorienting. I also kept looking for scroll arrows on either side, probably a habit from web galleries I use
on media sites.

- The plethora of materials is somewhat overwhelming, especially since there's no way to see what they look like without selecting them. A swatch picker with a sample sphere object image or something like that would be useful. And it would be very welcome if you divided the list into separate categories like Fabrics, Metals, Plastics, Leathers, Hi-Tech, and maybe Glossy/Matte/Textured as well.

- It took me a while to figure out that the white color I picked for the costume was showing as a dirty grey because the default material was interacting with the color choice badly. Eventually I realized I had to pick a material that showed white as white. I think the default material needs to display colors fairly accurately.

- The materials shelf is very useful, but is apparently not being saved with the character, which I expected it to be.

- It's not obvious which materials will take a color selection as a main color, and which use color for something else -- a number of materials appear to be using the selected color for highlight color. For some materials like specific metals, this makes some sense. But leathers should be able to be colored something other than black, for instance. I don't know if this is a bug, a design choice, or just that not all assets are in the game yet.

Tech Team

CallmeBlue
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Atama wrote:
Atama wrote:
CallmeBlue wrote:

OK, first, how do you take screenshots in the costume creator?

The same way you take screenshots in any program on a computer. Press the “screen print” key on your keyboard then paste into your picture program of choice. (I use MS Paint.)

Well, see, until now I've just looked up the default button for taking a screenshot in a program, and used that. You learn something new every day!

Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.

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Cyclops wrote:
Cyclops wrote:

We really just need 3 body styles for each sex, slim, heroic, and hulk. 90% of the sliders can go. With enough stock heads and hair styles every toon will be unique.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Simplicity ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ always make it simple.

I still think it would be useful to have separate default models for "never-ever-worked-out-slim" and "trains-like-a-maniac-slim."

Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.

Elizabeth Bathory
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agreed on the preset body

agreed on the preset body types.... but keep the sliders to change from the preset. It saves a lot of time if you can start with a body type you like and then tweak it.

Length of character should have real metric system in comparison to gameworld. Otherwise i have no clue how tall my toon is.

Brutum
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I'm not gonna lie, I kind of

I'm not gonna lie, I kind of expected you guys to have more costume parts completed by this point since the character creator has been the chief focus all these years. There are literally no parts in the Lower Leg, Hip Rear and Hip Accessory tabs, and the other tabs only have like 4-5 items if even that. Hell, some of the pieces we saw years ago aren't even in there, like Deathsheeps back piece. I don't understand why there are so few after all these years of working on it.

Puny Heroes.

Halae
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So, I've mentioned this

So, I've mentioned this elsewhere, but there needs to be additional options for increasing character bulk. Anjay on the official Discord provided a perfect example of the problem as I see it, so I'm using their screenshots with permission.

Anjay made a character that you can see in a pair of screenshots here and here. You can see in his design that Anjay made the character as bulky as possible in an effort to get something of a "fat" look, and while that's achieved, I've noticed some parts of it that are a problem. Specifically, the elbows, knees, hands, feet, and hips. if you wanted to make a hyper-bulky character like you could do in the old city with the Huge body type, you're limited by the fact that there's no way to get those specific body parts up to the size you want. Contrast this with The Incredible Hulk, who has continuously bulky body parts in all the stated places. This gives him a feeling of force and muscle mass, rather than looking like he's extremely fat or a relatively normal buff dude.

As a few other examples of this sort of situation, here's my character Scaleback, Solomon Grundy from DC Comics, and The Minotaur from Assassin's Creed. All of them have large hands and bulk continuity in their joints and down towards their feet. If you don't have those, you either look like a normal (if extreme) body builder, or you look like a really fat guy. This is a serious problem for people who want to make inhumanly large characters that feel like they're inhumanly strong and muscular, rather than just these tall gangly weirdos or enormous fat people.

An infinite number of tries doesn't mean that any one of those tries will succeed. I could flip an infinite number of pennies an infinite number of times and, barring genuine randomness, they will never come up "Waffles".

Cyclops
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Devs, is this feedback

Devs, is this feedback helping you?

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