So, are these final this time? :p no more "oops, we didn't mean to include vampiric stuff?

I'm assuming Atrophic is more akin to the -res and -def sets and vampiric is draining stats and health?

Okay so one thing I'm still not 100% sure on, and I'm sorry because I've asked but haven't gotten a clear answer. For tertiaries, will it work so that, for instance, a gladiator enforcer can select (limited) force blast a his/her tertiary? That's my understanding but I want to be sure I have it right.

I'm really enjoying the non-binary effects of moving your character when using certain powers. Seems like a clever response to the question of rooting. "Sure, you can move and use this power at the same time if you want, but if you stand still you'll get more out of it. Up to you." Nice work!

One thought. I wonder if whole Sets should be designated as Quick, Medium, or Slow, or whether individual powers within a Set should have that rating, so everyone gets some of each.

Very interesting - can't wait to see the full power lists and descriptions!

Doctor Tyche wrote:

Interdictor wrote:

Very interesting - can't wait to see the full power lists and descriptions!

You can look in the top menu

And we greatly appreciate the sneak peaks. They will tide us over until we can see the full power lists. ^_^

Doctor Tyche wrote:

Control does have pets in most sets, yes.

As always any/all new info dumps are appreciated. Two quick questions based on how things worked in CoH:
[list]
[*]Will the CoT control powersets that have pets get them as their last tier 9 power?
[*]Will the CoT control powersets that [b]don't[/b] have pets get Confuse-type powers that'll basically act as their "substitute" pets?
[/list]

I should note - all launch control sets have a t9 pet.

I'm looking forward to running my Solid Form Stalwart with an Insulated Shell into the biggest mob riot I can find.

Lothic wrote:

Doctor Tyche wrote:
Lothic wrote:
Will the CoT control powersets that don't have pets get Confuse-type powers that'll basically act as their "substitute" pets?
Yes
Tannim222 wrote:
I should note - all launch control sets have a t9 pet.
So by some kind of "transitive property of CoT" I think you've just confirmed that there will be no Control powerset at launch-time that will have Confuse-like powers. Is that correct?

Incorrect.

notears wrote:

If you look at illusion it says that it confuse powers

C'est la vie... I obviously didn't study every single word of the descriptions before I asked the question. In my pitiful defense the phrase "can cause them to become charmed and attack other enemies for a very short period of time" didn't immediately jump out at me as "Confuse" because I was looking for the word "Confuse" when I skimmed over the material. At any rate your response was more helpful to me in this regard than a one-word answer was...

Well at least we can thank Tannim for (very indirectly) letting us know no launch-time control powerset will have a [b]TIER 9 Confuse power[/b] which is perhaps a more important datapoint to be aware of at this point. Mind Control's [url=https://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Mind_Control]Mass Confusion[/url] (as a Targeted AoE) was arguably one of the most powerful Mez-type powers CoH ever produced.

Tannim222 wrote:

Lothic wrote:
notears wrote:
If you look at illusion it says that it confuse powers
C'est la vie... I obviously didn't study every single word of the descriptions before I asked the question. At least you're response was more helpful to me in this regard than a one-word answer was...
Well at least we can thank Tannim for (very indirectly) letting us know no launch-time control powerset will have a TIER 9 Confuse power which is perhaps a more important datapoint to be aware of at this point. Mind Control's Mass Confusion (as a Targeted AoE) was arguably one of the most powerful Mez-type powers CoH ever produced.
Sorry I have been at anothet job and answrwed when I had a brief moment away from students.
And to be very specific, the launch sets have a t9 pet power, but you won't see them at launch. Those powers are slated for unlocking post level 30 content.
And one of the things that should be understood is that we may not babe any sets without a t9 pet.
The power like Mind Control's Mass Condusion wouldn't work the same waynin CoT. Our controls are nonbinary and can have their wffect reduced by protections making itless potent. And the duration times are vastly different.

Damn, now you made me feel bad for snapping at you about the one-word answer... ;)

For what it's worth my "job" here on this forum as "an annoying player" is to pump every last bit of info I can about this game from any Dev who'll spill his/her guts and in that endeavor I'll never be above making a relative fool out of myself to do it. Somehow I doubt you'd respect me if I didn't at least give it a try...

You guys at MWM already have plenty of "yes-men" type players on this forum so I figure I'm serving a useful function as one of your few "honorary pains in the ass". ;)

Tannim222 wrote:

It is something that will bear exploring for later. But we can have area effect control charm powers placed in other tiers...

Sure for example back in CoH the [url=https://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Mental_Manipulation]Mental Manipulation[/url] powerset had World of Confusion as a tier 7 PBAoE Confusion power and [url=https://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Plant_Control]Plant Control[/url] had Seeds of Confusion as a tier 5 cone-based Confusion power. But seriously as a [b]Targeted AoE[/b] Mass Confusion arguably "took the gold ribbon" of the lot and truly deserved to be a tier 9 power.

Lothic wrote:

Damn, now you made me feel bad for snapping at you about the one-word answer... ;)

I felt bad because I didn't intend to come off as being flippant to your concerns. You (and everyone else) are certainly deserving of more than a one word answer.

I do recommend reading through the set descriptions. There is quite a bit of information to glean from them.

Huckleberry wrote:

I'm looking forward to running my Solid Form Stalwart with an Insulated Shell into the biggest mob riot I can find.

Based on what I'm reading in the descriptions... Holy cow that combo is going to be brutal and fun.

This is exactly the kind of update that we needed so we can start theorycrafting and developing strategies!

Safehouse wrote:

... so we can start theorycrafting and developing strategies!

My strategy has always been to CC the enemy by defeating them. >.>

Adore what I'm seeing with the powersets announcement!

Overall the "aesthetic decoupling" seems to be well done and I have a solid grasp of where the devs are going with, say, the different game-mechanical functionalities of Atrophic Blast vs Psychic Blast. But there is one area here that feels a little ill-defined, I don't come away from the descriptions having a clear understanding of what the "mission statement" is for the various Control powersets.

It looks like it was more difficult to decouple concepts from mechanics with the controls. I'm kinda surprised, for example, to see both a Gravity and a Force set for Control. Reading down the powersets list I was expecting when I reached the controls section to find a singular Force control set that had alot of movement/knockback effects, and that we could then conceptualize as gravity or tractor beams or hurricane winds or whatever.

Am I missing a nuance here that would bring the control sets into sharper focus?

The Storm Controller was one of my favorite toons in COH. I loved the power set thematically. I was wondering if you could do a "Storm" ranged damaging set, or a Traditional Storm debuffing/controlling power set. Towards that end there COH had elemental themes that pervaded all the archetypes, with some exceptions. I hope that will be continuing through.

Lastly, one of the reasons that COH was so fun is that in reality many sets had, debuff, control, healing, and damage all in 1 archetype preventing the Holy 3 required archetypes to do group content. That made balancing harder, but brought more play styles to bare. I am assuming you are still working that way through the designs.

Everwind wrote:

The Storm Controller was one of my favorite toons in COH. I loved the power set thematically. I was wondering if you could do a "Storm" ranged damaging set, or a Traditional Storm debuffing/controlling power set. Towards that end there COH had elemental themes that pervaded all the archetypes, with some exceptions. I hope that will be continuing through.
Lastly, one of the reasons that COH was so fun is that in reality many sets had, debuff, control, healing, and damage all in 1 archetype preventing the Holy 3 required archetypes to do group content. That made balancing harder, but brought more play styles to bare. I am assuming you are still working that way through the designs.

the storm is just the animation you will choose. the Descriptions do not list all the powers but give a pretty good idea of what we will get.
I am betting you will get exactly what you want at Launch.

Baalumbral wrote:

Adore what I'm seeing with the powersets announcement!
Overall the "aesthetic decoupling" seems to be well done and I have a solid grasp of where the devs are going with, say, the different game-mechanical functionalities of Atrophic Blast vs Psychic Blast. But there is one area here that feels a little ill-defined, I don't come away from the descriptions having a clear understanding of what the "mission statement" is for the various Control powersets.
It looks like it was more difficult to decouple concepts from mechanics with the controls. I'm kinda surprised, for example, to see both a Gravity and a Force set for Control. Reading down the powersets list I was expecting when I reached the controls section to find a singular Force control set that had alot of movement/knockback effects, and that we could then conceptualize as gravity or tractor beams or hurricane winds or whatever.
Am I missing a nuance here that would bring the control sets into sharper focus?

It's hard to say with only a sample of two powers each and a short description.

Seems the only thing we can point towards right now is the interaction with Gravity Well in the Gravity set and the "creation" of obstacles in the Force set.

Tannim222 wrote:

Lothic wrote:
Damn, now you made me feel bad for snapping at you about the one-word answer... ;)
I felt bad because I didn't intend to come off as being flippant to your concerns. You (and everyone else) are certainly deserving of more than a one word answer.
I do recommend reading through the set descriptions. There is quite a bit of information to glean from them.

Hey hey... Tannim... don't worry just, in the future if you're working on something come back and talk to us after your done working rather than trying to multi task okay? :]

Cyclops wrote:

Atrophic Aura sounds like the damage shield we got with the energy defenses in COH.
is it going to be light on defense? I'm afraid I will be trading away suvivability for a damage shield.

Atrophic Radiance is a damage shield done the way the old game couldn't do damage shields. The old game ticked damage out at regular intervals once it was active, even if no one was around.

Their engine wasn't set up to have effects trigger off being hit per my conversations with a dev back then.

We can set that up so with this power, if you are hit in melee range, damage is dealt back out.

And it does say in the description of the set that it has less sustainability (read protections) in favor of more damage. Once again, there are more powers in this set.

Some really interesting stuff in here. Finding myself reading over the descriptions several times to glean more of the mechanics and options. I noticed that Phantom Army is alive and well in Illusionary Images. I like the way you're introducing charge effects. At first glance I must admit I get a bit of a "samey" feel to the control sets myself. I have some trouble seeing how the "elemental" sets from City of Heroes (ice, fire, earth) could be expressed with them, though with another look I wonder if ice might actually be a perfect aesthetic for Force Control, with a wall of ice for reflective barrier for example.

I have a few questions if I may ask:

1. You talked about powers unlocking at certain levels. Does that mean you will automatically receive all powers from your primary/secondary (except for the two tiers that you have to pick between two) or will you still potentially be skipping some in favour of tertiary powers and so on, a la City of Heroes?

2. I didn't notice any reference to Classification and Specialization; are you still using that terminology?

3. Power resource/recovery is mentioned in many places. Is this like endurance?

4. I get the impression most buff powers can be used on oneself and not only allies. Is that correct?

5. If I beg and say 'pretty please,' can we play the game now? Pleeeeease? ;^) This looks really exciting.

Pyromantic wrote:

I have a few questions if I may ask:
1. You talked about powers unlocking at certain levels. Does that mean you will automatically receive all powers from your primary/secondary (except for the two tiers that you have to pick between two) or will you still potentially be skipping some in favour of tertiary powers and so on, a la City of Heroes?
2. I didn't notice any reference to Classification and Specialization; are you still using that terminology?
3. Power resource/recovery is mentioned in many places. Is this like endurance?
4. I get the impression most buff powers can be used on oneself and not only allies. Is that correct?
5. If I beg and say 'pretty please,' can we play the game now? Pleeeeease? ;^) This looks really exciting.

1. You choose your powers just like in the old game. They are not automatic.

2. No, that terminology is old. It was decided to go with Archetype (instead of classification), Specification for specialization.

3. Power is like endurance, yes.

4. That is correct.

5. Sorry, no amount of begging can get things done any faster.

Tannim222 wrote:

Pyromantic wrote:
I have a few questions if I may ask:
1. You talked about powers unlocking at certain levels. Does that mean you will automatically receive all powers from your primary/secondary (except for the two tiers that you have to pick between two) or will you still potentially be skipping some in favour of tertiary powers and so on, a la City of Heroes?
2. I didn't notice any reference to Classification and Specialization; are you still using that terminology?
3. Power resource/recovery is mentioned in many places. Is this like endurance?
4. I get the impression most buff powers can be used on oneself and not only allies. Is that correct?
5. If I beg and say 'pretty please,' can we play the game now? Pleeeeease? ;^) This looks really exciting.
1. You choose your powers just like in the old game. They are not automatic.
2. No, that terminology is old. It was decided to go with Archetype (instead of classification), Specification for specialization.
3. Power is like endurance, yes.
4. That is correct.
5. Sorry, no amount of begging can get things done any faster.

Thank you. So much good stuff here.

(And I hope my tease about wanting to play came off with the intended humour.)

Im just wondering you said all control set's have pet's. How does strategy make sense to have a pet (is control then the commander's focus rather than the operator ?)

Questions:

1) Does the player choose slow/medium/fast as an aesthetic setting for a power set, or are are the power sets set and locked into one of these catagories?

2) Will there be elemental animations for all melee sets, even ones like Fighting Prowess and Super Strength?

Thanks!

KnightMask wrote:

Strategy is a support set Deathwatch not a control set.

Everyone ignore me im being a div as usual :P

Thanks!

Follow up question--did I just miss it or are the speeds for each listed somewhere?

Gotcha. Thanks again!

Pyromantic wrote:

Something I only just noticed...Is Strategy effectively the "replacement" for Kinetics? Close range, buffing team member damage, debuffing enemy damage...
Although, actually I suppose the description of Vampiric is really closer.

Not really. Kinetics was reliant in debuffs to provide the offensive buffs. This set is similar in that it requires positional awareness to maximize usefulness. Think of it as a ratcheted up version of leadership.

I'm not sure i understand well the explanations of the news ^^ (probably due to the language and the different words used for the same thing).
So, for exemple :
Archetype == Stalwart
Class == Bodyguard
Primary set (style) == Protection
Secondary set (focused style) == Melee
Tertiairies .... is, e.g, grit for the primary set and kinetic melee for the secondary set ?

I must confess i mix all the terms and explanations :D And tiertiaries stay mysterious :/

Ok Fireheart but "Tertiary Sets are often more basic, truncated versions of Secondary Sets." Does it means that tertiairies will be secondaries but weaker ?

In fact, it will be like in CoH : choose one primary at a level, then choose a secondary at another level and so on. At level x choose a Tertiairy and a primary (or secondary depending of the level) and so on.

McNum wrote:

Hmm, two choices within a powerset every time you get a power choice? That sounds kind of like XCOM and it works pretty well in that.
Also, Barrier Generation and Force Blast, you say? I know an old CoH character who'll be happy to hear that.

Only specific tiers within each power set offers the option of picking one or anothet at this time. Tiers 3 and 7.

Lin Chiao Feng wrote:

sneak peeks
Just say no to ninja volcanoes.

Your comment reminds me of this comic by the oatmeal:

Wolfgang8565 wrote:

Someone knock me out and wake me up when the game is out.

This is pretty much how I feel. The number of times I check this site each day is approaching unhealthy levels.

Pyromantic wrote:

So Reflective Barrier in Force Control says that enemies can climb over it...
I guess we knew wall-crawling was a thing a while ago. Some amount of climbing is default for everyone though perhaps?

This power would be useless in PVP. I guess that's why we would need a PVP specific build.

Scott Jackson wrote:

What a great step forward, so that we can now see the powersets taking shape!
Could you clarify the meanings of resistance and damage subtraction

Subtraction occurs before Resistance, reduces damage by a fixed amount, but works for very small amounts. Resistance reduced by percentage, works against all effects.

Protections (in order), Evasion, Defense, Subtraction, Resistance, Healing / Regeneration.

This is EXACTLY the kind of thing I want more of. Good information! Time to update the sheet of all the characters I want to make at launch.

That said, the idea of A or B choices at certain levels I'm mixed on. On one hand, it can be a good way to have some variance in the available abilities, see Xcom. On the other hand, sometimes it can put an otherwise good power vs a VERY good power, also seen in Xcom, most prominently the Sniper class' Squadsight vs Snap Shot decision. Snap shot is a good ability, no doubt, but squadsight defined a good chunk of gameplay for that class. No one I know took a snap shot sniper, because that decent power was up against an amazing power.

Overall, this system can work, but it needs to be carefully balanced. Not doing it at every level is likely a good idea: The really good powers (and really lackluster ones) can stand alone, and moderate powers (or wonky ones not everyone will want) can compete.

I'm hoping what we can expect next is some animations, or visual effect displays for the sneak peak abilities!

Lost Deep wrote:

This is EXACTLY the kind of thing I want more of. Good information! Time to update the sheet of all the characters I want to make at launch.
That said, the idea of A or B choices at certain levels I'm mixed on. On one hand, it can be a good way to have some variance in the available abilities, see Xcom. On the other hand, sometimes it can put an otherwise good power vs a VERY good power, also seen in Xcom, most prominently the Sniper class' Squadsight vs Snap Shot decision. Snap shot is a good ability, no doubt, but squadsight defined a good chunk of gameplay for that class. No one I know took a snap shot sniper, because that decent power was up against an amazing power.
Overall, this system can work, but it needs to be carefully balanced. Not doing it at every level is likely a good idea: The really good powers (and really lackluster ones) can stand alone, and moderate powers (or wonky ones not everyone will want) can compete.

I suppose there is a possibility some of those teir 3 and 7 "choice" powers might still be available via Tertiary power sets - depending on how they are structured.

For Melee I was hoping something like point blank area of effect and Atrophic Point Blank are of Effect.
But then that could be what Massive Melee if thats the case maybe in the future there might be Atrophic Massive Melee
for the people would like to see bunches of dots tick over the enemies. Looking forward to see more information.
I am hoping to see what kinds of damage types you are planning.
A gamer would understand kinetic temperate laceration supernatural;
Someone who is just a superhero fan might want to know if he could do cold damage or fire damage.