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Doctor Tyche
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Discuss - How it Works: Powerset Design

Please feel free to discuss this week's update here.

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Thank you for this update,

Thank you for this update, very interesting. Keep up the good work!

I go back to re-read it another couple of times (I already did twice, but it's not sufficient for my hype of the game in this period).

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So, are these final this time

So, are these final this time? :p no more "oops, we didn't mean to include vampiric stuff?

I'm assuming Atrophic is more akin to the -res and -def sets and vampiric is draining stats and health?

"A delayed game is eventually good, but a rushed game is forever bad"

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desviper wrote:
desviper wrote:

So, are these final this time? :p no more "oops, we didn't mean to include vampiric stuff?
I'm assuming Atrophic is more akin to the -res and -def sets and vampiric is draining stats and health?

These are indeed "final" barring any issues cropping up.

Check under Guides to see the descriptions of the launch sets.


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Okay so one thing I'm still

Okay so one thing I'm still not 100% sure on, and I'm sorry because I've asked but haven't gotten a clear answer. For tertiaries, will it work so that, for instance, a gladiator enforcer can select (limited) force blast a his/her tertiary? That's my understanding but I want to be sure I have it right.

Name: Safehouse
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Safehouse wrote:
Safehouse wrote:

Okay so one thing I'm still not 100% sure on, and I'm sorry because I've asked but haven't gotten a clear answer. For tertiaries, will it work so that, for instance, a gladiator enforcer can select (limited) force blast a his/her tertiary? That's my understanding but I want to be sure I have it right.

That is correct.


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I'm really enjoying the non

I'm really enjoying the non-binary effects of moving your character when using certain powers. Seems like a clever response to the question of rooting. "Sure, you can move and use this power at the same time if you want, but if you stand still you'll get more out of it. Up to you." Nice work!

Spurn all ye kindle.

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Tannim222 wrote:
Tannim222 wrote:

Safehouse wrote:
Okay so one thing I'm still not 100% sure on, and I'm sorry because I've asked but haven't gotten a clear answer. For tertiaries, will it work so that, for instance, a gladiator enforcer can select (limited) force blast a his/her tertiary? That's my understanding but I want to be sure I have it right.
That is correct.

My life is complete.

Also, this entire update is incredible. To see the depth that you have built into your combat is beyond my wildest expectations. You guys have gone to great lengths to really build something that is your own creation.

Looking at this, thinking about it, I've realized that, if CoH came back the same day that CoT launched, I would be more likely to play CoT first. Every update has brought me closer to this realization, but this update has cemented that. CoH was my home. It was a wonderful game, which I will never forget.

But you guys have really built into the foundation that CoH set and you're going above and beyond.

Name: Safehouse
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One thought. I wonder if

One thought. I wonder if whole Sets should be designated as Quick, Medium, or Slow, or whether individual powers within a Set should have that rating, so everyone gets some of each.

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Mewkychan wrote:
Mewkychan wrote:

One thought. I wonder if whole Sets should be designated as Quick, Medium, or Slow, or whether individual powers within a Set should have that rating, so everyone gets some of each.

Even slow sets have some faster animating and recharging powers. Each has their own range of speed and damage. The range of speed increases at higher tiers.

For offense sets, the speed categories are what helps balance the possible combinations of attack chains.


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Very interesting - can't wait

Very interesting - can't wait to see the full power lists and descriptions!

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Sounds promising!

Sounds promising!

My one reservation is that esthetic decoupling does not seem to be as complete as I had hoped. Still, it's a step up from CoH.

Will any sets other than Pet Primaries have pets? (The subtext here is how closely I will be able to re-create my controllers from CoH.) If so, will the pets be "hard-coded" into the sets, or will it be possible to choose from a select list? I suppose Pet Tertiaries might cover this option...

I recall reading that it will be possible to swap out a character's Secondary set. Is that still the plan? How easy do you plan to make this change? (e.g. "freely out of combat," or "with a character retcon," or "only when new Secondary sets are added to the game?")

Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.

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Interdictor wrote:
Interdictor wrote:

Very interesting - can't wait to see the full power lists and descriptions!

You can look in the top menu

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CallmeBlue wrote:
CallmeBlue wrote:

Sounds promising!
My one reservation is that esthetic decoupling does not seem to be as complete as I had hoped. Still, it's a step up from CoH.
Will any sets other than Pet Primaries have pets? (The subtext here is how closely I will be able to re-create my controllers from CoH.) If so, will the pets be "hard-coded" into the sets, or will it be possible to choose from a select list? I suppose Pet Tertiaries might cover this option...
I recall reading that it will be possible to swap out a character's Secondary set. Is that still the plan? How easy do you plan to make this change? (e.g. "freely out of combat," or "with a character retcon," or "only when new Secondary sets are added to the game?")

Control does have pets in most sets, yes. As for secondary swap, we need outside play Testing to make that determination.

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Doctor Tyche wrote:
Doctor Tyche wrote:
Interdictor wrote:

Very interesting - can't wait to see the full power lists and descriptions!

You can look in the top menu

And we greatly appreciate the sneak peaks. They will tide us over until we can see the full power lists. ^_^

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sneak peeks

sneak peeks

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Doctor Tyche wrote:
Doctor Tyche wrote:

Control does have pets in most sets, yes.

As always any/all new info dumps are appreciated. Two quick questions based on how things worked in CoH:

  • Will the CoT control powersets that have pets get them as their last tier 9 power?
  • Will the CoT control powersets that don't have pets get Confuse-type powers that'll basically act as their "substitute" pets?

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

Doctor Tyche
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Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:

Doctor Tyche wrote:
Control does have pets in most sets, yes.
As always any/all new info dumps are appreciated. Two quick questions based on how things worked in CoH:Will the CoT control powersets that have pets get them as their last tier 9 power?
Will the CoT control powersets that don't have pets get Confuse-type powers that'll basically act as their "substitute" pets?

Yes to both

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I should note - all launch

I should note - all launch control sets have a t9 pet.


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Doctor Tyche wrote:
Doctor Tyche wrote:

Lothic wrote:
Doctor Tyche wrote:
Control does have pets in most sets, yes.
As always any/all new info dumps are appreciated. Two quick questions based on how things worked in CoH:Will the CoT control powersets that have pets get them as their last tier 9 power?
Will the CoT control powersets that don't have pets get Confuse-type powers that'll basically act as their "substitute" pets?

Yes to both

Thanks for the quick answers.

As an FYI just be sure if you guys decide to have anything even remotely like Fire Imps to "pre-nerf" them for CoT. In CoH they had to heavily nerf them about a year into the game because the way they worked at launch was seriously (almost stupidly) overpowered. The worst part of that situation wasn't the resulting nerfed Imps (because again they needed to be nerfed) but having to make the adjustment between the 'broken' version and the 'fixed' version. What I'm trying to say was that simply knowing how they originally worked made it hard to accept the change (many people completely stopped playing CoH because of this) but had I been a player who had started playing CoH -after- the nerfs I might not have ever realized there was a problem to begin with.

Please consider that a serious "lesson learned" to make sure pets like that don't start overpowered in CoT. It's always easier for Devs to slightly strengthen super-wimpy pets than to have to severely nerf hyper-overpowered ones.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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I'm looking forward to

I'm looking forward to running my Solid Form Stalwart with an Insulated Shell into the biggest mob riot I can find.


I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
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Tannim222 wrote:
Doctor Tyche wrote:
Lothic wrote:

Will the CoT control powersets that don't have pets get Confuse-type powers that'll basically act as their "substitute" pets?

Yes

Tannim222 wrote:

I should note - all launch control sets have a t9 pet.

So by some kind of "transitive property of CoT" I think you've just confirmed that there will be no Control powerset at launch-time that will have Confuse-like powers. Is that correct?

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:

Doctor Tyche wrote:
Lothic wrote:
Will the CoT control powersets that don't have pets get Confuse-type powers that'll basically act as their "substitute" pets?
Yes
Tannim222 wrote:
I should note - all launch control sets have a t9 pet.
So by some kind of "transitive property of CoT" I think you've just confirmed that there will be no Control powerset at launch-time that will have Confuse-like powers. Is that correct?

Incorrect.


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Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:

Doctor Tyche wrote:
Lothic wrote:
Will the CoT control powersets that don't have pets get Confuse-type powers that'll basically act as their "substitute" pets?
Yes
Tannim222 wrote:
I should note - all launch control sets have a t9 pet.
So by some kind of "transitive property of CoT" I think you've just confirmed that there will be no Control powerset at launch-time that will have Confuse-like powers. Is that correct?

If you look at illusion it says that it confuse powers

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Tannim222 wrote:
notears wrote:

If you look at illusion it says that it confuse powers

C'est la vie... I obviously didn't study every single word of the descriptions before I asked the question. In my pitiful defense the phrase "can cause them to become charmed and attack other enemies for a very short period of time" didn't immediately jump out at me as "Confuse" because I was looking for the word "Confuse" when I skimmed over the material. At any rate your response was more helpful to me in this regard than a one-word answer was...

Well at least we can thank Tannim for (very indirectly) letting us know no launch-time control powerset will have a TIER 9 Confuse power which is perhaps a more important datapoint to be aware of at this point. Mind Control's Mass Confusion (as a Targeted AoE) was arguably one of the most powerful Mez-type powers CoH ever produced.

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Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:

notears wrote:
If you look at illusion it says that it confuse powers
C'est la vie... I obviously didn't study every single word of the descriptions before I asked the question. At least you're response was more helpful to me in this regard than a one-word answer was...
Well at least we can thank Tannim for (very indirectly) letting us know no launch-time control powerset will have a TIER 9 Confuse power which is perhaps a more important datapoint to be aware of at this point. Mind Control's Mass Confusion (as a Targeted AoE) was arguably one of the most powerful Mez-type powers CoH ever produced.

Sorry I have been at anothet job and answrwed when I had a brief moment away from students.

And to be very specific, the launch sets have a t9 pet power, but you won't see them at launch. Those powers are slated for unlocking post level 30 content.

And one of the things that should be understood is that we may not babe any sets without a t9 pet.

The power like Mind Control's Mass Condusion wouldn't work the same waynin CoT. Our controls are nonbinary and can have their wffect reduced by protections making itless potent. And the duration times are vastly different.

It is something that will bear exploring for later. But we can have area effect control charm powers placed in other tiers...


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Tannim222 wrote:
Tannim222 wrote:

Lothic wrote:
notears wrote:
If you look at illusion it says that it confuse powers
C'est la vie... I obviously didn't study every single word of the descriptions before I asked the question. At least you're response was more helpful to me in this regard than a one-word answer was...
Well at least we can thank Tannim for (very indirectly) letting us know no launch-time control powerset will have a TIER 9 Confuse power which is perhaps a more important datapoint to be aware of at this point. Mind Control's Mass Confusion (as a Targeted AoE) was arguably one of the most powerful Mez-type powers CoH ever produced.
Sorry I have been at anothet job and answrwed when I had a brief moment away from students.
And to be very specific, the launch sets have a t9 pet power, but you won't see them at launch. Those powers are slated for unlocking post level 30 content.
And one of the things that should be understood is that we may not babe any sets without a t9 pet.
The power like Mind Control's Mass Condusion wouldn't work the same waynin CoT. Our controls are nonbinary and can have their wffect reduced by protections making itless potent. And the duration times are vastly different.

Damn, now you made me feel bad for snapping at you about the one-word answer... ;)

For what it's worth my "job" here on this forum as "an annoying player" is to pump every last bit of info I can about this game from any Dev who'll spill his/her guts and in that endeavor I'll never be above making a relative fool out of myself to do it. Somehow I doubt you'd respect me if I didn't at least give it a try...

You guys at MWM already have plenty of "yes-men" type players on this forum so I figure I'm serving a useful function as one of your few "honorary pains in the ass". ;)

Tannim222 wrote:

It is something that will bear exploring for later. But we can have area effect control charm powers placed in other tiers...

Sure for example back in CoH the Mental Manipulation powerset had World of Confusion as a tier 7 PBAoE Confusion power and Plant Control had Seeds of Confusion as a tier 5 cone-based Confusion power. But seriously as a Targeted AoE Mass Confusion arguably "took the gold ribbon" of the lot and truly deserved to be a tier 9 power.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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Tannim222 wrote:
Tannim222 wrote:

Lothic wrote:
Doctor Tyche wrote:
Lothic wrote:
Will the CoT control powersets that don't have pets get Confuse-type powers that'll basically act as their "substitute" pets?
Yes
Tannim222 wrote:
I should note - all launch control sets have a t9 pet.
So by some kind of "transitive property of CoT" I think you've just confirmed that there will be no Control powerset at launch-time that will have Confuse-like powers. Is that correct?
Incorrect.

I, for one, enjoy blunt yes/no incorrect/correct answers :p

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Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:

Damn, now you made me feel bad for snapping at you about the one-word answer... ;)

I felt bad because I didn't intend to come off as being flippant to your concerns. You (and everyone else) are certainly deserving of more than a one word answer.

I do recommend reading through the set descriptions. There is quite a bit of information to glean from them.


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desviper wrote:
desviper wrote:
Tannim222 wrote:
Lothic wrote:

So by some kind of "transitive property of CoT" I think you've just confirmed that there will be no Control powerset at launch-time that will have Confuse-like powers. Is that correct?

Incorrect.

I, for one, enjoy blunt yes/no incorrect/correct answers :p

Well to be fair I did construct that question so that a one-word response was "proportionally justifiable" but to Tannim's credit he did come back and add more detail.

Again like I said any way I can get the Devs to say as much as possible is fine with me...

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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Huckleberry wrote:
Huckleberry wrote:

I'm looking forward to running my Solid Form Stalwart with an Insulated Shell into the biggest mob riot I can find.

Based on what I'm reading in the descriptions... Holy cow that combo is going to be brutal and fun.

This is exactly the kind of update that we needed so we can start theorycrafting and developing strategies!

Name: Safehouse
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Secondary: Invulnerability
Tertiary: Super Strength
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Status: Traveling. Following rumors of a huge city in Massachusetts that is teeming with supers.

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Tannim222 wrote:
Tannim222 wrote:

The power like Mind Control's Mass Condusion wouldn't work the same waynin CoT. Our controls are nonbinary and can have their wffect reduced by protections making itless potent. And the duration times are vastly different.
It is something that will bear exploring for later. But we can have area effect control charm powers placed in other tiers...

You know... just because control effects are going to be non-binary as a rule, is there any reason certain effects couldn't be binary where appropriate? That could actually add more interest and variety to combat.

FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)

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Safehouse wrote:
Safehouse wrote:

... so we can start theorycrafting and developing strategies!

My strategy has always been to CC the enemy by defeating them. >.>

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Nice update!

Nice update!

I haven't read through everything new yet, so I apologize if this is covered.

When you mentioned the fast, medium and slow speeds of powersets; does that mean that power is inversely related?

Slow = heavy / medium = medium / fast = light

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Adore what I'm seeing with

Adore what I'm seeing with the powersets announcement!

Overall the "aesthetic decoupling" seems to be well done and I have a solid grasp of where the devs are going with, say, the different game-mechanical functionalities of Atrophic Blast vs Psychic Blast. But there is one area here that feels a little ill-defined, I don't come away from the descriptions having a clear understanding of what the "mission statement" is for the various Control powersets.

It looks like it was more difficult to decouple concepts from mechanics with the controls. I'm kinda surprised, for example, to see both a Gravity and a Force set for Control. Reading down the powersets list I was expecting when I reached the controls section to find a singular Force control set that had alot of movement/knockback effects, and that we could then conceptualize as gravity or tractor beams or hurricane winds or whatever.

Am I missing a nuance here that would bring the control sets into sharper focus?

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Tannim222 wrote:
Tannim222 wrote:

I felt bad because I didn't intend to come off as being flippant to your concerns. You (and everyone else) are certainly deserving of more than a one word answer.

I fear you won't give that kind of replies anymore and will switch to "I'll reply only if I have enough time to do that right". But that leads to forget about that specific reply in a later time, you're no robots.

A one-word answer is better than an absence, I mean if you didn't fast-reply with "incorrect" (which was already interesting and useful, I read it as soon as you wrote it and got me intrigued) all the rest wouldn't have come out.

Please keep replying short when you don't have time, it's better than nothing and since it's faster it avoids us to take wrong paths in our discussions that can be averted with a single word already. Later on if you have time you came back and explain further, it's perfect this way imho.

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The Storm Controller was one

The Storm Controller was one of my favorite toons in COH. I loved the power set thematically. I was wondering if you could do a "Storm" ranged damaging set, or a Traditional Storm debuffing/controlling power set. Towards that end there COH had elemental themes that pervaded all the archetypes, with some exceptions. I hope that will be continuing through.

Lastly, one of the reasons that COH was so fun is that in reality many sets had, debuff, control, healing, and damage all in 1 archetype preventing the Holy 3 required archetypes to do group content. That made balancing harder, but brought more play styles to bare. I am assuming you are still working that way through the designs.

Winds of Change

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One of the best updates so

One of the best updates so far.

I'm probably going to have to read it about ten more times to come close to digesting it all.

One of the problems I have is that I still find myself running everything through my CoH powerset correlation "filter" when clearly CoT is much more diverse (which is a good thing). For example, Vampire type powers. Is that like COH endurance draining or am I off base with that assumption? I am not saying you need to do anything more about this translation thing than you already have. I accept that the onus is on me to learn COT's terminology properly. I just look forward to the time I am better able to do that.

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Everwind wrote:
Everwind wrote:

The Storm Controller was one of my favorite toons in COH. I loved the power set thematically. I was wondering if you could do a "Storm" ranged damaging set, or a Traditional Storm debuffing/controlling power set. Towards that end there COH had elemental themes that pervaded all the archetypes, with some exceptions. I hope that will be continuing through.
Lastly, one of the reasons that COH was so fun is that in reality many sets had, debuff, control, healing, and damage all in 1 archetype preventing the Holy 3 required archetypes to do group content. That made balancing harder, but brought more play styles to bare. I am assuming you are still working that way through the designs.

the storm is just the animation you will choose. the Descriptions do not list all the powers but give a pretty good idea of what we will get.
I am betting you will get exactly what you want at Launch.

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Atrophic Aura sounds like the

Atrophic Aura sounds like the damage shield we got with the energy defenses in COH.
is it going to be light on defense? I'm afraid I will be trading away suvivability for a damage shield.

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Baalumbral wrote:
Baalumbral wrote:

Adore what I'm seeing with the powersets announcement!
Overall the "aesthetic decoupling" seems to be well done and I have a solid grasp of where the devs are going with, say, the different game-mechanical functionalities of Atrophic Blast vs Psychic Blast. But there is one area here that feels a little ill-defined, I don't come away from the descriptions having a clear understanding of what the "mission statement" is for the various Control powersets.
It looks like it was more difficult to decouple concepts from mechanics with the controls. I'm kinda surprised, for example, to see both a Gravity and a Force set for Control. Reading down the powersets list I was expecting when I reached the controls section to find a singular Force control set that had alot of movement/knockback effects, and that we could then conceptualize as gravity or tractor beams or hurricane winds or whatever.
Am I missing a nuance here that would bring the control sets into sharper focus?

It's hard to say with only a sample of two powers each and a short description.

Seems the only thing we can point towards right now is the interaction with Gravity Well in the Gravity set and the "creation" of obstacles in the Force set.

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Everwind wrote:
Everwind wrote:

The Storm Controller was one of my favorite toons in COH. I loved the power set thematically. I was wondering if you could do a "Storm" ranged damaging set, or a Traditional Storm debuffing/controlling power set. Towards that end there COH had elemental themes that pervaded all the archetypes, with some exceptions. I hope that will be continuing through.

We intentionally don't design sets around elemental themes because of aesthetic decoupling. Sets are deisgned around play styles and mechanical themes as stated in the update.

Everwind wrote:

Lastly, one of the reasons that COH was so fun is that in reality many sets had, debuff, control, healing, and damage all in 1 archetype preventing the Holy 3 required archetypes to do group content. That made balancing harder, but brought more play styles to bare. I am assuming you are still working that way through the designs.

Baalumbral wrote:

It looks like it was more difficult to decouple concepts from mechanics with the controls. I'm kinda surprised, for example, to see both a Gravity and a Force set for Control. Reading down the powersets list I was expecting when I reached the controls section to find a singular Force control set that had alot of movement/knockback effects, and that we could then conceptualize as gravity or tractor beams or hurricane winds or whatever.
Am I missing a nuance here that would bring the control sets into sharper focus?

These are just our launch sets. There are many, many more sets utilizing a wide range of mechanicsl themes we have conceptual designs for (yes, that's all 11 powers). Obviously, they may go through changes and adjustments once all the numbers are applied.

And there is only a small sampling of all the powers within the sets represented. We don't seek try to decouple concepts from mechanics. The concept is the mechanical theme, but there will be mechanics for common things like damage over time or knock effects found in different places. Some things are applicable in multiple ways.

The trick is to not to replicate a power from any other set so that it is distinct in some way. And when you are looking at this huge list of potential powers from all the possible future sets...let me just say that every single choice made for every single power in every single set is very intentional.

With Force Control, its main theme isn't anout knocking your enemy around. It doesn't mean that there are no knocks at all, it also means that there could be a set with more of that in mind.


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Tannim222 wrote:
Tannim222 wrote:

Lothic wrote:
Damn, now you made me feel bad for snapping at you about the one-word answer... ;)
I felt bad because I didn't intend to come off as being flippant to your concerns. You (and everyone else) are certainly deserving of more than a one word answer.
I do recommend reading through the set descriptions. There is quite a bit of information to glean from them.

Hey hey... Tannim... don't worry just, in the future if you're working on something come back and talk to us after your done working rather than trying to multi task okay? :]

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Yeah, let's not forget that

Yeah, let's not forget that the names they've chosen are a "best-fit" used to summarize a number of concepts that have been lumped together.

The Force Control and Gravity Control sets are a good example, I think. Rather than starting with those names, I imagine the devs started with a description of the abilities they wanted to have and then picked a name that would be good enough to summarize the collective set of abilities.

The Force Control set seems to be full of knock backs and knock downs and immobilizes, much like the super strength melee set, except it also has the ability to place objects in the world. So it is not too hard a leap to think the devs imagined someone able to use force constructs much like Green Lantern uses light constructs. The difference here is that with aesthetic decoupling we could do this with telekinesis, summons, gadgets, spirits, elements or any other visual representation. And some of these visual representations don't necessarily fit the "force" name as easily as others. But there is probably no better name to capture the essence of the power set.

Edit: Beat me to the response while I was still writing it.


I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
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Cyclops wrote:
Cyclops wrote:

Atrophic Aura sounds like the damage shield we got with the energy defenses in COH.
is it going to be light on defense? I'm afraid I will be trading away suvivability for a damage shield.

Atrophic Radiance is a damage shield done the way the old game couldn't do damage shields. The old game ticked damage out at regular intervals once it was active, even if no one was around.

Their engine wasn't set up to have effects trigger off being hit per my conversations with a dev back then.

We can set that up so with this power, if you are hit in melee range, damage is dealt back out.

And it does say in the description of the set that it has less sustainability (read protections) in favor of more damage. Once again, there are more powers in this set.


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Tannim222 wrote:
Tannim222 wrote:

Cyclops wrote:
Atrophic Aura sounds like the damage shield we got with the energy defenses in COH.
is it going to be light on defense? I'm afraid I will be trading away suvivability for a damage shield.
Atrophic Radiance is a damage shield done the way the old game couldn't do damage shields. The old game ticked damage out at regular intervals once it was active, even if no one was around.
Their engine wasn't set up to have effects trigger off being hit per my conversations with a dev back then.
We can set that up so with this power, if you are hit in melee range, damage is dealt back out.
And it does say in the description of the set that it has less sustainability (read protections) in favor of more damage. Once again, there are more powers in this set.

Thanks, Tannim! this is why I love this game.The devs will come out and just talk with us. (I really hope you devs get rich with COT!)

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Some really interesting stuff

Some really interesting stuff in here. Finding myself reading over the descriptions several times to glean more of the mechanics and options. I noticed that Phantom Army is alive and well in Illusionary Images. I like the way you're introducing charge effects. At first glance I must admit I get a bit of a "samey" feel to the control sets myself. I have some trouble seeing how the "elemental" sets from City of Heroes (ice, fire, earth) could be expressed with them, though with another look I wonder if ice might actually be a perfect aesthetic for Force Control, with a wall of ice for reflective barrier for example.

I have a few questions if I may ask:

1. You talked about powers unlocking at certain levels. Does that mean you will automatically receive all powers from your primary/secondary (except for the two tiers that you have to pick between two) or will you still potentially be skipping some in favour of tertiary powers and so on, a la City of Heroes?

2. I didn't notice any reference to Classification and Specialization; are you still using that terminology?

3. Power resource/recovery is mentioned in many places. Is this like endurance?

4. I get the impression most buff powers can be used on oneself and not only allies. Is that correct?

5. If I beg and say 'pretty please,' can we play the game now? Pleeeeease? ;^) This looks really exciting.

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So excited!!! I love how in

So excited!!! I love how in depth the customization goes!!!

Former Villain of Virtue - Magistryx Lucra - Mastermind/Dark

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Pyromantic wrote:
Pyromantic wrote:

I have a few questions if I may ask:
1. You talked about powers unlocking at certain levels. Does that mean you will automatically receive all powers from your primary/secondary (except for the two tiers that you have to pick between two) or will you still potentially be skipping some in favour of tertiary powers and so on, a la City of Heroes?
2. I didn't notice any reference to Classification and Specialization; are you still using that terminology?
3. Power resource/recovery is mentioned in many places. Is this like endurance?
4. I get the impression most buff powers can be used on oneself and not only allies. Is that correct?
5. If I beg and say 'pretty please,' can we play the game now? Pleeeeease? ;^) This looks really exciting.

1. You choose your powers just like in the old game. They are not automatic.

2. No, that terminology is old. It was decided to go with Archetype (instead of classification), Specification for specialization.

3. Power is like endurance, yes.

4. That is correct.

5. Sorry, no amount of begging can get things done any faster.


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There's one very important

There's one very important thing that you need to keep in mind when you're designing all these powersets, and it's this:

How easy will it be to maintain from a programming and database standpoint?

Please keep this in mind as you're programming away. The more standardization you can build into it, the more consistency you can build into it, the more heavily the code is commented about *what it does* and *how it's intended to work*, the easier maintenance will be four, five years from now.

That may mean you will need to reduce the complexity of the design or the number of powers.

And for the love of Pascal and Ada, *document the expected ranges of inputs and where the inputs are supposed to be coming from*. When you can, also document what calls the function and what the function feeds into. Makes bug tracing a whole lot easier.

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Tannim222 wrote:
Tannim222 wrote:

Pyromantic wrote:
I have a few questions if I may ask:
1. You talked about powers unlocking at certain levels. Does that mean you will automatically receive all powers from your primary/secondary (except for the two tiers that you have to pick between two) or will you still potentially be skipping some in favour of tertiary powers and so on, a la City of Heroes?
2. I didn't notice any reference to Classification and Specialization; are you still using that terminology?
3. Power resource/recovery is mentioned in many places. Is this like endurance?
4. I get the impression most buff powers can be used on oneself and not only allies. Is that correct?
5. If I beg and say 'pretty please,' can we play the game now? Pleeeeease? ;^) This looks really exciting.
1. You choose your powers just like in the old game. They are not automatic.
2. No, that terminology is old. It was decided to go with Archetype (instead of classification), Specification for specialization.
3. Power is like endurance, yes.
4. That is correct.
5. Sorry, no amount of begging can get things done any faster.

Thank you. So much good stuff here.

(And I hope my tease about wanting to play came off with the intended humour.)

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Tannim222 wrote:
Tannim222 wrote:

5. Sorry, no amount of begging can get things done any faster.

How about cookies? My wife makes really great chocolate chip cookies from scratch. I could deliver them still hot and gooey....

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Im just wondering you said

Im just wondering you said all control set's have pet's. How does strategy make sense to have a pet (is control then the commander's focus rather than the operator ?)

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It's likely more a matter of

It's likely more a matter of CoH's Control Sets had a Tier 9 Pet, so CoT feels the need to copy that as well. Some old time CoH players may have the same feeling to it.

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Questions:

Questions:

1) Does the player choose slow/medium/fast as an aesthetic setting for a power set, or are are the power sets set and locked into one of these catagories?

2) Will there be elemental animations for all melee sets, even ones like Fighting Prowess and Super Strength?

Thanks!

FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)

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Strategy is a support set

Strategy is a support set Deathwatch not a control set.

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KnightMask wrote:
KnightMask wrote:

Strategy is a support set Deathwatch not a control set.

Everyone ignore me im being a div as usual :P

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Cyclops wrote:
Cyclops wrote:

Tannim222 wrote:
5. Sorry, no amount of begging can get things done any faster.
How about cookies? My wife makes really great chocolate chip cookies from scratch. I could deliver them still hot and gooey....

Cookies makes everything better except my waistline.

Deathwatch101 wrote:

Im just wondering you said all control set's have pet's. How does strategy make sense to have a pet (is control then the commander's focus rather than the operator ?)

Strategy is a Support Set.

Empyrean wrote:

Questions:
1) Does the player choose slow/medium/fast as an aesthetic setting for a power set, or are are the power sets set and locked into one of these catagories?
2) Will there be elemental animations for all melee sets, even ones like Fighting Prowess and Super Strength?
Thanks!

The speed of a set is inputted ar the design level.
It is not customized by players except by soxketing the appropriate Refibements (like reducing recharge).

Aesthetic decoupling lets you apply virtually any aesthetic to any set. You choose your props (or none), emanation points, animations, particle effects.

Try to think of aesthetic decoupling like a costume for your powers as much as costumes are for your character.


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Thanks!

Thanks!

Follow up question--did I just miss it or are the speeds for each listed somewhere?

FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)

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Empyrean wrote:
Empyrean wrote:

Thanks!
Follow up question--did I just miss it or are the speeds for each listed somewhere?

They are not listed. It is more for design purposes, as each is its own category for ranges of cast and recharge.


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Gotcha. Thanks again!

Gotcha. Thanks again!

FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)

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Something I only just noticed

Something I only just noticed...Is Strategy effectively the "replacement" for Kinetics? Close range, buffing team member damage, debuffing enemy damage...

Although, actually I suppose the description of Vampiric is really closer.

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Pyromantic wrote:
Pyromantic wrote:

Something I only just noticed...Is Strategy effectively the "replacement" for Kinetics? Close range, buffing team member damage, debuffing enemy damage...
Although, actually I suppose the description of Vampiric is really closer.

Not really. Kinetics was reliant in debuffs to provide the offensive buffs. This set is similar in that it requires positional awareness to maximize usefulness. Think of it as a ratcheted up version of leadership.


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Love what i'm reading so far

Love what i'm reading so far and interesting choice naming it "exotic" damage lol

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I'm not sure i understand

I'm not sure i understand well the explanations of the news ^^ (probably due to the language and the different words used for the same thing).
So, for exemple :
Archetype == Stalwart
Class == Bodyguard
Primary set (style) == Protection
Secondary set (focused style) == Melee
Tertiairies .... is, e.g, grit for the primary set and kinetic melee for the secondary set ?

I must confess i mix all the terms and explanations :D And tiertiaries stay mysterious :/

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Tertiaries appear to be

Tertiaries appear to be functioning like the 'Power Pools' in CoH. So, they'd be like Fitness, Leadership, or Medicine.

Be Well!
Fireheart

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Ok Fireheart but "Tertiary

Ok Fireheart but "Tertiary Sets are often more basic, truncated versions of Secondary Sets." Does it means that tertiairies will be secondaries but weaker ?

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I believe the Devs have

I believe the Devs have explicitly said that Tertiaries will be both weaker than Secondaries and have fewer powers on the list, but that we can select powers from multiple Tertiary lists. Primaries and Secondaries will offer more individual powers, but we'll only be able to select one Primary list and one Secondary list at a time.

Also, like 'Power Pools' Tertiaries will offer not just powers from the main Primary and Secondary lists, but more 'Utility' powers, as well.

Be Well!
Fireheart

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In fact, it will be like in

In fact, it will be like in CoH : choose one primary at a level, then choose a secondary at another level and so on. At level x choose a Tertiairy and a primary (or secondary depending of the level) and so on.

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TitansCity wrote:
TitansCity wrote:

In fact, it will be like in CoH : choose one primary at a level, then choose a secondary at another level and so on. At level x choose a Tertiairy and a primary (or secondary depending of the level) and so on.

This is correct.

All Secondary Sets can be made into Tertiary Sets. No Primary Sets at this time. There are balance concerns for Summons Sets and putely Control Sets.

As the update says, there will be unique Tertiary Sets, one category is Siper Senses of which we plan to offer several sets at some time in the future.


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Hmm, two choices within a

Hmm, two choices within a powerset every time you get a power choice? That sounds kind of like XCOM and it works pretty well in that.

Also, Barrier Generation and Force Blast, you say? I know an old CoH character who'll be happy to hear that.

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Tannim222 wrote:
Tannim222 wrote:

TitansCity wrote:
In fact, it will be like in CoH : choose one primary at a level, then choose a secondary at another level and so on. At level x choose a Tertiairy and a primary (or secondary depending of the level) and so on.
This is correct.
All Secondary Sets can be made into Tertiary Sets. No Primary Sets at this time. There are balance concerns for Summons Sets and putely Control Sets.
As the update says, there will be unique Tertiary Sets, one category is Siper Senses of which we plan to offer several sets at some time in the future.

Thanks Tannim22 and Fireheart :) it's all clear !
Now, i'm prepared for the second chance, the localization and the alpha xD

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McNum wrote:
McNum wrote:

Hmm, two choices within a powerset every time you get a power choice? That sounds kind of like XCOM and it works pretty well in that.
Also, Barrier Generation and Force Blast, you say? I know an old CoH character who'll be happy to hear that.

Only specific tiers within each power set offers the option of picking one or anothet at this time. Tiers 3 and 7.


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Seriously, AWESOME update. I

Seriously, AWESOME update. I'm majorly psyched about this game now.

R.S.O. of Phoenix Rising

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Tannim222 wrote:
Tannim222 wrote:

Only specific tiers within each power set offers the option of picking one or anothet at this time. Tiers 3 and 7.

Ah, okay. I'll just have to wait and see how it works, then. I already know the powersets for one character, I think.

Also, if I wanted to make a character who fights with a sword, it'd be something like an Enforcer with Fighting Prowess (for a nimble sword) and something like Grit, Super Agility or even Anthropic Aura? Then I give them a sword prop and pick sword swing animations for the melee attacks.

I do wonder what my Guardian will do for attacks. Barriers is a given, but for attacks, Force, Psychic or even Vampiric could all work for a magic attack. Hm... Will have to wait and see the full sets.

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Someone knock me out and wake

Someone knock me out and wake me up when the game is out.

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Lin Chiao Feng wrote:
Lin Chiao Feng wrote:

sneak peeks
Just say no to ninja volcanoes.

Your comment reminds me of this comic by the oatmeal:

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What a great step forward, so

What a great step forward, so that we can now see the powersets taking shape!

Could you clarify the meanings of resistance and damage subtraction, as used in the Guides -> Character Construction -> Power Sets -> Protection Sets?

Quote:

Solid Core (tier 6): When you toggle on and maintained this ability, you are protected with light resistance to energy and exotic effects and strong subtraction to energy and exotic damage.

I'm thinking:
A "Resistance" protection power reduces incoming damage by a percentage...
5% resistance means that an incoming 100 damage attack does 95 damage instead, while a 200 damage attack does 190.
Classic CoH mechanic. The percentage might scale or otherwise adjust when the character augments the resistance power, but probably doesn't scale with their level. As a percentage, it has built-in adjustment to the incoming damage. Equally effective against hard hits and small, numerous hits.

A "Subtraction" protection power reduces incoming damage by a fixed amount...
5 subtraction means that an incoming 100 damage attack does 95 damage instead, while a 200 damage attack does 195.
This sounds similar to Champions Online Invulnerability (at least when I played it a couple years ago). It is highly effective against numerous small attacks, and much less effective against a single hard hit. The fixed amount might scale or otherwise adjust as the character levels up or augments the subtraction power, but due to its fixed nature, its damage reduction does not adjust for the size of the incoming attack. I'm unsure whether the fixed amount would be subtracted from each tick of damage (in a DoT, for example), or just the total damage to be applied. In other words, assuming 5 subtraction, imagine a DoT totalling 200 damage applied over 20 ticks of 10 dmg per tick. Would this DoT deliver 195 damage (200-5) or would it deliver just 100 damage (20*(10-5))?

Of course, a single power can include both effects as in the Solid Core example (and other effects such as elude/dodge defense, heals, and regen), and only the combined interaction of all effects on the character would determine their overall protection values.

Edit: Perhaps I misread "resistance" as "damage resistance", and what was really meant was resistance to effects such as controls and/or debuffs. Hmm...

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Wolfgang8565 wrote:
Wolfgang8565 wrote:

Someone knock me out and wake me up when the game is out.

This is pretty much how I feel. The number of times I check this site each day is approaching unhealthy levels.

Name: Safehouse
Magical Ranger - Gunner
Primary: Lethality (Energy)
Secondary: Invulnerability
Tertiary: Super Strength
Travel Power: Parkour
Status: Traveling. Following rumors of a huge city in Massachusetts that is teeming with supers.

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So Reflective Barrier in

So Reflective Barrier in Force Control says that enemies can climb over it...

I guess we knew wall-crawling was a thing a while ago. Some amount of climbing is default for everyone though perhaps?

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Pyromantic wrote:
Pyromantic wrote:

So Reflective Barrier in Force Control says that enemies can climb over it...
I guess we knew wall-crawling was a thing a while ago. Some amount of climbing is default for everyone though perhaps?

This power would be useless in PVP. I guess that's why we would need a PVP specific build.

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What are the damage types? So

What are the damage types? So far I see Physical, Energy, and Exotic.

Fair enough to keep things simple, but I feel like 3 might not be enough.

Poison, exotic? Ice, physical? Fire, physical or energy?

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Scott Jackson wrote:
Scott Jackson wrote:

What a great step forward, so that we can now see the powersets taking shape!
Could you clarify the meanings of resistance and damage subtraction

Subtraction occurs before Resistance, reduces damage by a fixed amount, but works for very small amounts. Resistance reduced by percentage, works against all effects.

Protections (in order), Evasion, Defense, Subtraction, Resistance, Healing / Regeneration.


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I'm sure it's been talked

I'm sure it's been talked about already, but I can't find anything specific, so ...

I understand that Control effects won't be binary like in CoH. To me that sounds like a weakening of them.

Which would be understandable as, let's face it, Control in CoH was seriously overpowered.

A majority of my characters were Controllers, so while I loved it, I also understood how powerful it really was.

On the other hand, Control effects in many (most) games out there are so minor as to be pointless [1 second holds, really?!?],
often amounting to not much more than interrupts and minor stumbling blocks in the enemy's attack chain.

So, on a scale of 1 (Guild Wars 2 controls) to 10 (CoH controls), where is CoT going to sit?

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This is EXACTLY the kind of

This is EXACTLY the kind of thing I want more of. Good information! Time to update the sheet of all the characters I want to make at launch.

That said, the idea of A or B choices at certain levels I'm mixed on. On one hand, it can be a good way to have some variance in the available abilities, see Xcom. On the other hand, sometimes it can put an otherwise good power vs a VERY good power, also seen in Xcom, most prominently the Sniper class' Squadsight vs Snap Shot decision. Snap shot is a good ability, no doubt, but squadsight defined a good chunk of gameplay for that class. No one I know took a snap shot sniper, because that decent power was up against an amazing power.

Overall, this system can work, but it needs to be carefully balanced. Not doing it at every level is likely a good idea: The really good powers (and really lackluster ones) can stand alone, and moderate powers (or wonky ones not everyone will want) can compete.

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Finally read them all. SOO

Finally read them all. SOO EXCITED!

I like the idea of damage subtraction, being immune to little things like lava or poison.

I like damage buff from super reflexes too, excellent embodiment of the block-and-counter nature of many martial arts :)

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I'm hoping what we can expect

I'm hoping what we can expect next is some animations, or visual effect displays for the sneak peak abilities!

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Tannim222 wrote:
Tannim222 wrote:

Scott Jackson wrote:
What a great step forward, so that we can now see the powersets taking shape!
Could you clarify the meanings of resistance and damage subtraction
Subtraction occurs before Resistance, reduces damage by a fixed amount, but works for very small amounts. Resistance reduced by percentage, works against all effects.
Protections (in order), Evasion, Defense, Subtraction, Resistance, Healing / Regeneration.

Are evasion and defense analogous to subtraction and resistance? As in, does evasion reduce chance to hit by a flat amount and defense reduce chance to hit by a percentage?

When you list healing and regeneration in order, do you just mean in the sense that they can only be applied after you take damage, or am I missing something?

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Lost Deep wrote:
Lost Deep wrote:

This is EXACTLY the kind of thing I want more of. Good information! Time to update the sheet of all the characters I want to make at launch.
That said, the idea of A or B choices at certain levels I'm mixed on. On one hand, it can be a good way to have some variance in the available abilities, see Xcom. On the other hand, sometimes it can put an otherwise good power vs a VERY good power, also seen in Xcom, most prominently the Sniper class' Squadsight vs Snap Shot decision. Snap shot is a good ability, no doubt, but squadsight defined a good chunk of gameplay for that class. No one I know took a snap shot sniper, because that decent power was up against an amazing power.
Overall, this system can work, but it needs to be carefully balanced. Not doing it at every level is likely a good idea: The really good powers (and really lackluster ones) can stand alone, and moderate powers (or wonky ones not everyone will want) can compete.

I suppose there is a possibility some of those teir 3 and 7 "choice" powers might still be available via Tertiary power sets - depending on how they are structured.

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Tannim222 wrote:
Tannim222 wrote:

Atrophic Radiance is a damage shield done the way the old game couldn't do damage shields. The old game ticked damage out at regular intervals once it was active, even if no one was around.
Their engine wasn't set up to have effects trigger off being hit per my conversations with a dev back then.
We can set that up so with this power, if you are hit in melee range, damage is dealt back out.
And it does say in the description of the set that it has less sustainability (read protections) in favor of more damage. Once again, there are more powers in this set.

In World of Warcraft parlance, this would be known as a Thorns type effect (so named for the Druid spell of exactly that name).

When something hits you, they automatically receive damage as a result of hitting you. It's basically a form of damage reflection which causes your enemies to "hurt themselves" by hitting you.


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For Melee I was hoping

For Melee I was hoping something like point blank area of effect and Atrophic Point Blank are of Effect.
But then that could be what Massive Melee if thats the case maybe in the future there might be Atrophic Massive Melee
for the people would like to see bunches of dots tick over the enemies. Looking forward to see more information.
I am hoping to see what kinds of damage types you are planning.
A gamer would understand kinetic temperate laceration supernatural;
Someone who is just a superhero fan might want to know if he could do cold damage or fire damage.

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