Nonsense! He could be "Stanley Steamer!"

I'll say this, just because people have powers, does not really mean they would want to be a hero or villain. Put yourself into the shoes of that person with regeneration for example, sure you can regenerate, however you still feel pain, and you just stubbing your toe against the coffee table really hard makes you want to take pressure off from it until it heals. Now imagine the pain you get from being hit by a villain that can punch you three buildings and into a car, it doesn't matter if you will be fine in thee minutes, it's not going to be pleasant at all, and people would shy away from it.

If I were a meta, I would certainly be the type that warms up an area for people with fire manipulation, make a beautiful garden with plant manipulation, or just amuse myself and others with light manipulation. It may pay less than being a super hero, but I could deal with a smaller paycheck if it didn't mean having to worry if I am ever going to return home again after every work day. In fact, if I were to choose a superpower, it would be something like omnilinguism, the power to refill things, or the ability to know exactly what to say to people.

Empyrean wrote:

Esorono wrote:
I'll say this, just because people have powers, does not really mean they would want to be a hero or villain. Put yourself into the shoes of that person with regeneration for example, sure you can regenerate, however you still feel pain, and you just stubbing your toe against the coffee table really hard makes you want to take pressure off from it until it heals. Now imagine the pain you get from being hit by a villain that can punch you three buildings and into a car, it doesn't matter if you will be fine in thee minutes, it's not going to be pleasant at all, and people would shy away from it.
If I were a meta, I would certainly be the type that warms up an area for people with fire manipulation, make a beautiful garden with plant manipulation, or just amuse myself and others with light manipulation. It may pay less than being a super hero, but I could deal with a smaller paycheck if it didn't mean having to worry if I am ever going to return home again after every work day. In fact, if I were to choose a superpower, it would be something like omnilinguism, the power to refill things, or the ability to know exactly what to say to people.

Understandable. Two things, though.
This is both realistic and reasonable, but not much like most of the metahumans in the actual comic book Superhero fiction genre that the game is supposed to be based on. A few, yes, but not most.
Which Superheroes in comic books get a paycheck from their Superheroics? The few who are rich made money outside of being a Superhero. At lest as far as I know. Maybe Booster Gold from sponsors?
Anyway, I'm starting to sound like a broken record :P. Past time for me to shut up.

The Avengers get a regular paycheck from the government. Spiderman once commented that they were paid ridiculously well. Something like 'If I were an Avenger I'd sit around the mansion and have the butler count the zeros on my paycheck for me'.

Brighellac wrote:

But here's the thing, you fit them into your construct. Ok, how about doom patrol? A super group coerced by the government into doing the government's good?
I'm glad you have a construct that works for you, but there are others. I can think of two offhand that work but would violate the don't be disrespectful of religion guidelines.

Can't comment much on Doom Patrol, since I never read it, but if you want a theological discussion about someone who does the right thing only because he's force to, you could read about Simon the Cyrenian, who was forced to carry Jesus'cross.

Also remember that Doom Patrol was deliberately made to be different. It's tag line was "The World's Strangest Heroes". So if they didn't fit the traditional pattern it's probably because they tried not to.

Finally please indulge another quote from my game, Super Crusaders III:

BREAKING THE RULES IS OK

A superhero world is a very big and diverse place, and the best of them are cross time multiverses where just about anything can happen. The rules of a genre describe the world, but clearly they do not apply equally to every character in the world. There are lots of non-traditional Characters who add contrast and sometimes a little conflict to the stories. Just because you have powers and/or a costume doesn't automatically make you a superhero or villain. Make your own way in the world. It's your game. Maybe you're just a costumed vigilante or a loony. Even if you are a superhero, that doesn't mean you have to follow all of the rules all of the time. You could be a superhero who never wears a costume, who works for the FBI, or who openly expresses his partisan political views. One of my characters,The Last Crusader, is a very vocal Catholic who takes a stand against abortion.

DISRESPECTING THE RULES IS NOT OK
The rules aren't iron clad, but that doesn't mean, as some might argue, that there are no rules. We all know the rules, because we've grown up with them. They were created by a collaborative effort of comic book writers, government authorities, and TV cartoons. And just as we know the rules we recognize exceptions when we see them. Characters who break the rules are always described, (often by their own creators and publishers) as “Rule Breaking”. That's what we mean by an exception that proves the rule. You can't break a rule that doesn't exist.
I realize that many of the conventions of the superhero genre originally came about because the genre was primarily aimed at children, and that some writers and fans resent them for that reason. I know that there have been many efforts in recent decades to dispense with some of the conventions to make comics either more “adult” or more realistic (as if a story about a superhero is ever going to be realistic). I also know that Hollywood has never respected the rules of the genre (usually killing off the villains, which is a cardinal sin). But I also know comics don't sell anywhere near as well as they used to, and comic fans have often been disappointed with movies based on comics.
A genre is what it is, and if you change it too much, it becomes something else. These efforts usually come across as soulless rip offs, or attacks on the genre that insult those who love it. The best of them are parodies and sometimes they can even be really good one shot stories, but they can't have the depth and lasting appeal of the original.

Esorono wrote:

I'll say this, just because people have powers, does not really mean they would want to be a hero or villain. Put yourself into the shoes of that person with regeneration for example, sure you can regenerate, however you still feel pain, and you just stubbing your toe against the coffee table really hard makes you want to take pressure off from it until it heals. Now imagine the pain you get from being hit by a villain that can punch you three buildings and into a car, it doesn't matter if you will be fine in thee minutes, it's not going to be pleasant at all, and people would shy away from it.

The superhero genre isn't sci-fi.
It's not about what the world would be like, if people had powers.
That's why no one liked "Heroes" after the first season.
Superheroes are about action and adventure and all that goes along with that.
The characters are supposed to be heroes, villains & various shades in between,
but they can never be ordinary people, no matter how much they might want to.

HornetsNest wrote:

All this angst and anger over what a theoretical NPC might do?
Players will almost certainly never be in a position to spend their entire online "day" doing mundane tasks. There will probably be "fight the fire" and "rescue civilians/kittens" type mini-games in almost every zone
But would it really ruin your gaming session if you go to a cafe and see that Sparky Dude was keeping the people outside warm while Mister Steamy is making cappuccinos?

Seriously?
did you even read what I wrote?

Angst yes (I'm German so Angst is my friend) but anger? come on.
I said breaking the rules is OK.

I just think it's important for the devs to know that they Are breaking the rules, and I hope they don't do it too often.
Plus I really enjoy getting up on a soap box, in case you haven't noticed.

Its also possible that a very low power Meta working on the streets gets ridiculed by other Metas, day in, day out...
But one day he has enough and goes into a fit of rage. Unbeknownst to that low powered Meta, he Taps a hidden Reserve's (wink wink) of power and just destroys a few city blocks.

What do the City Officials do then? Whos to blame? Can he claim Insa-ti-ability as his defense? :P

Better not.. I roast my Marshmallows with him!

"Boo hoo you got the wimpy power of making bubbles...." says a thug. "Yup bubbles like the ones forming in your blood stream now." Thug drops to the ground having both heart attacks and strokes.

BUBBLES CAN KILL! All it takes is a little imagination.

I think my favorite part of this thread is all the people posting here and nowhere else! Nice to see everyone chiming in!

Now then, when it comes to discussing "the rules of the genre", for as long as people have been making things up and sharing them there have only ever been two rules of storytelling:

1. The first rule of being a storyteller is there are no rules
2. The second rule of being a storyteller is to always respect the rules

The same holds true for any artistic endeavor. A MMORPG is both an artistic and a technological achievement. Favoring one over the other leads to failure. This is a very unforgiving media for storytelling. Mastery here, as in any creative endeavor, comes from finding the balance between everything and nothing.

City of Titans will have divinely heroic player characters. This is inevitable because there will always be players who favor that approach. City of Titans will have divinely heroic NPCs because it will need them to tell the story of Titan City. That is also inevitable.

However, there is no reason to limit the game to the divinely heroic.

It seems to me, going by the alignment system and the few glimpses we've had of the Rooks, the Black Rose, the Five Dragons, and the Aethir Pirates, that there will have to be a few demonically evil NPCs for the divinely heroic player character to pit themselves against. Additionally, there is obviously room for demonically evil player characters (provided they don't violate the "T for Teen" rating!) who will seek out and revel in opportunities to take down the divinely heroic NPCs. If there is a mission for heroes to take down the most powerful figures in Titan City's underworld then there must also be a mission allowing villains to take down Anthem and her team.

Although I personally will be avoiding it, there is also going to be some form of PvP that will allow these divinely heroic and demonically evil player characters to pit themselves against one another.

So the extremes are definitely going to be covered. Therefore, I don't see how it would "break immersion" for Titan City to feature NPCs with limited power doing mundane tasks. Nor should it be impossible for player characters with self-created and self-enforced limits to find middle of the road missions and paths through the game narrative.

Neither the virtual world nor the real one is limited to the extremes. There is no reason to assume it simply must be one way or the other. The spectrum approach benefits both extremes along with everyone in between.

This is a very entertaining discussion thread! At least for me.

Greyhawk wrote:

The spectrum approach benefits both extremes along with everyone in between.

The spectrum approach also creates a wide game space within which to tell stories and is nowhere near as limiting as sticking only to the extremes.

Plus, we have to take into account all the Civilians who are living in the middle of that spectrum, some of whom may be Contacts for the Missions we undertake as PCs.