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Discuss: Gabbie the Cabbie - When it's Cold Outside

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ConundrumofFurballs
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Empyrean wrote:
Empyrean wrote:

I personally like super powers and Superheroes feeling like something truly special, not mundane--which doesn't require a high degree of rarity, just that mundane use is more the exception rather than the rule.
Part of this is because I read Superhero comic books growing up and that's how they were generally handled, part because that's how it was in CoX, and part because I just like the feel of that better.
I'll admit this isn't realistic. Realistically people would probably generally use powers for mundane purposes.
BUT, does that mean that it's all-or-nothing, or that I won't enjoy the game if mundane use of Superpowers is more common? Nope. Just that if, to my tastes, it's overdone, I'll have "well that's silly" moments a bit more often. No biggie.
And I don't think there is a huge danger of it swinging excessively far in either direction in a spiritual successor to CoH.

This has been addressed somewhat in a previous update:

Kickstarter Update 78: Law and the Superhero wrote:

Additionally, registration carries no other obligations. However, many registrants choose to engage in crimefighting because of the extensive legal protections registration confers, such as arrest powers and limited immunity from civil suits.

Persons with powers are under no obligation to use their powers in any particular way, heroic or otherwise, or even use them at all. If they choose to use them to warm up Frankie's in the winter, that is their choice. Some of the civilian population will likely have some amount of powers, purely by the nature of people not wanting to be labeled or stigmas that they may have been raised with. We are talking about human beings, and this is one of the more basic instincts of the modern human.

Also, not all powers are required to be registered.

Kickstarter Update 78: Law and the Superhero wrote:

Question 22: What powers must I register?
A: Any dangerous or intrusive power.
Registration applies to dangerous or intrusive powers of all types, whether derived from a device (magical or technological), a ritual or operation, or the wielder’s inherent abilities.
“Dangerous” powers are anything that could be used as a deadly or dangerous weapon. This is broadly construed and includes items that are part of your body or training, such as the fists of martial artists.
“Intrusive” powers are those likely to interfere with the privacy or peace of ordinary, reasonable people. These include special senses, including extrasensory powers and telepathy, and powers whose use would constitute a noise or light complaint if used after 11 p.m.
If you are registering a power that provides flight by means of a device, you should also consult the Department of Public Safety/FAA Joint Publication, “Aeronautics and Aviation with Human-Portable Aircraft” (available on our website).
If you are unsure if your powers must be registered, consult an attorney specializing in superhuman law

There are some powers that are not required to be registered, which will likely, almost by definition, be used for mundane things. The guy that can get your clothes clean in an instant, but nothing else? He might work at the local dry cleaners, replacing their machinery and reducing their costs. He isn't displacing anyone's job by doing so. The guy that can see a mile away but is otherwise unpowered? There's minimal use for that, even within the super community. There are plenty of possible powers that could be so limited that they are basically of no use for heroic or villainous activities, outside of those that could be accomplished by an unpowered human.

Basically, as represented in previously published updates, there will be some amount of the mundane usage of powers. These may or may not be visible. The light will be primarily, or completely, shining on those powered individuals that use their powers in heroic or villainous pursuits.

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Conundrum of Furballs

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Beamrider
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That's the problem for the

That's the problem for the dude with the ability to de-wrinkle clothing. The most obvious Hero Name, "Iron Man", has been taken.

Composition Team

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Nonsense! He could be

Nonsense! He could be "Stanley Steamer!"


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Izzy
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Redlynne wrote:
Redlynne wrote:

Nonsense! He could be "Stanley Steamer!"

Ohh, but he Always gets mistaken for the Carpet Cleaner. ;)

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I'll say this, just because

I'll say this, just because people have powers, does not really mean they would want to be a hero or villain. Put yourself into the shoes of that person with regeneration for example, sure you can regenerate, however you still feel pain, and you just stubbing your toe against the coffee table really hard makes you want to take pressure off from it until it heals. Now imagine the pain you get from being hit by a villain that can punch you three buildings and into a car, it doesn't matter if you will be fine in thee minutes, it's not going to be pleasant at all, and people would shy away from it.

If I were a meta, I would certainly be the type that warms up an area for people with fire manipulation, make a beautiful garden with plant manipulation, or just amuse myself and others with light manipulation. It may pay less than being a super hero, but I could deal with a smaller paycheck if it didn't mean having to worry if I am ever going to return home again after every work day. In fact, if I were to choose a superpower, it would be something like omnilinguism, the power to refill things, or the ability to know exactly what to say to people.

Empyrean
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Esorono wrote:
Esorono wrote:

I'll say this, just because people have powers, does not really mean they would want to be a hero or villain. Put yourself into the shoes of that person with regeneration for example, sure you can regenerate, however you still feel pain, and you just stubbing your toe against the coffee table really hard makes you want to take pressure off from it until it heals. Now imagine the pain you get from being hit by a villain that can punch you three buildings and into a car, it doesn't matter if you will be fine in thee minutes, it's not going to be pleasant at all, and people would shy away from it.
If I were a meta, I would certainly be the type that warms up an area for people with fire manipulation, make a beautiful garden with plant manipulation, or just amuse myself and others with light manipulation. It may pay less than being a super hero, but I could deal with a smaller paycheck if it didn't mean having to worry if I am ever going to return home again after every work day. In fact, if I were to choose a superpower, it would be something like omnilinguism, the power to refill things, or the ability to know exactly what to say to people.

Understandable. Two things, though.

This is both realistic and reasonable, but not much like most of the metahumans in the actual comic book Superhero fiction genre that the game is supposed to be based on. A few, yes, but not most.

Which Superheroes in comic books get a paycheck from their Superheroics? The few who are rich made money outside of being a Superhero. At lest as far as I know. Maybe Booster Gold from sponsors?

Anyway, I'm starting to sound like a broken record :P. Past time for me to shut up.

FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)

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Empyrean wrote:
Empyrean wrote:

Esorono wrote:
I'll say this, just because people have powers, does not really mean they would want to be a hero or villain. Put yourself into the shoes of that person with regeneration for example, sure you can regenerate, however you still feel pain, and you just stubbing your toe against the coffee table really hard makes you want to take pressure off from it until it heals. Now imagine the pain you get from being hit by a villain that can punch you three buildings and into a car, it doesn't matter if you will be fine in thee minutes, it's not going to be pleasant at all, and people would shy away from it.
If I were a meta, I would certainly be the type that warms up an area for people with fire manipulation, make a beautiful garden with plant manipulation, or just amuse myself and others with light manipulation. It may pay less than being a super hero, but I could deal with a smaller paycheck if it didn't mean having to worry if I am ever going to return home again after every work day. In fact, if I were to choose a superpower, it would be something like omnilinguism, the power to refill things, or the ability to know exactly what to say to people.

Understandable. Two things, though.
This is both realistic and reasonable, but not much like most of the metahumans in the actual comic book Superhero fiction genre that the game is supposed to be based on. A few, yes, but not most.
Which Superheroes in comic books get a paycheck from their Superheroics? The few who are rich made money outside of being a Superhero. At lest as far as I know. Maybe Booster Gold from sponsors?
Anyway, I'm starting to sound like a broken record :P. Past time for me to shut up.

The Avengers get a regular paycheck from the government. Spiderman once commented that they were paid ridiculously well. Something like 'If I were an Avenger I'd sit around the mansion and have the butler count the zeros on my paycheck for me'.

Empyrean
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Mendicant wrote:
Mendicant wrote:

The Avengers get a regular paycheck from the government. Spiderman once commented that they were paid ridiculously well. Something like 'If I were an Avenger I'd sit around the mansion and have the butler count the zeros on my paycheck for me'.

You know, I did forget about that one. I remember an issue where Tigra freaked out because she was so happy when she saw her first Avengers paycheck. I thought Billionaire Tony Stark footed the bill, though. Maybe it's changed since back then.

I do think that is more the exception than the rule, though.

FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)

TheMightyPaladin
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Brighellac wrote:
Brighellac wrote:

But here's the thing, you fit them into your construct. Ok, how about doom patrol? A super group coerced by the government into doing the government's good?
I'm glad you have a construct that works for you, but there are others. I can think of two offhand that work but would violate the don't be disrespectful of religion guidelines.

Can't comment much on Doom Patrol, since I never read it, but if you want a theological discussion about someone who does the right thing only because he's force to, you could read about Simon the Cyrenian, who was forced to carry Jesus'cross.

Also remember that Doom Patrol was deliberately made to be different. It's tag line was "The World's Strangest Heroes". So if they didn't fit the traditional pattern it's probably because they tried not to.

Finally please indulge another quote from my game, Super Crusaders III:

BREAKING THE RULES IS OK

A superhero world is a very big and diverse place, and the best of them are cross time multiverses where just about anything can happen. The rules of a genre describe the world, but clearly they do not apply equally to every character in the world. There are lots of non-traditional Characters who add contrast and sometimes a little conflict to the stories. Just because you have powers and/or a costume doesn't automatically make you a superhero or villain. Make your own way in the world. It's your game. Maybe you're just a costumed vigilante or a loony. Even if you are a superhero, that doesn't mean you have to follow all of the rules all of the time. You could be a superhero who never wears a costume, who works for the FBI, or who openly expresses his partisan political views. One of my characters,The Last Crusader, is a very vocal Catholic who takes a stand against abortion.

DISRESPECTING THE RULES IS NOT OK
The rules aren't iron clad, but that doesn't mean, as some might argue, that there are no rules. We all know the rules, because we've grown up with them. They were created by a collaborative effort of comic book writers, government authorities, and TV cartoons. And just as we know the rules we recognize exceptions when we see them. Characters who break the rules are always described, (often by their own creators and publishers) as “Rule Breaking”. That's what we mean by an exception that proves the rule. You can't break a rule that doesn't exist.
I realize that many of the conventions of the superhero genre originally came about because the genre was primarily aimed at children, and that some writers and fans resent them for that reason. I know that there have been many efforts in recent decades to dispense with some of the conventions to make comics either more “adult” or more realistic (as if a story about a superhero is ever going to be realistic). I also know that Hollywood has never respected the rules of the genre (usually killing off the villains, which is a cardinal sin). But I also know comics don't sell anywhere near as well as they used to, and comic fans have often been disappointed with movies based on comics.
A genre is what it is, and if you change it too much, it becomes something else. These efforts usually come across as soulless rip offs, or attacks on the genre that insult those who love it. The best of them are parodies and sometimes they can even be really good one shot stories, but they can't have the depth and lasting appeal of the original.

Esorono wrote:

I'll say this, just because people have powers, does not really mean they would want to be a hero or villain. Put yourself into the shoes of that person with regeneration for example, sure you can regenerate, however you still feel pain, and you just stubbing your toe against the coffee table really hard makes you want to take pressure off from it until it heals. Now imagine the pain you get from being hit by a villain that can punch you three buildings and into a car, it doesn't matter if you will be fine in thee minutes, it's not going to be pleasant at all, and people would shy away from it.

The superhero genre isn't sci-fi.
It's not about what the world would be like, if people had powers.
That's why no one liked "Heroes" after the first season.
Superheroes are about action and adventure and all that goes along with that.
The characters are supposed to be heroes, villains & various shades in between,
but they can never be ordinary people, no matter how much they might want to.

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All this angst and anger over

All this angst and anger over what a theoretical NPC might do?

Players will almost certainly never be in a position to spend their entire online "day" doing mundane tasks. There will probably be "fight the fire" and "rescue civilians/kittens" type mini-games in almost every zone

But would it really ruin your gaming session if you go to a cafe and see that Sparky Dude was keeping the people outside warm while Mister Steamy is making cappuccinos?

Lay your hands on me
While I'm bleeding dry
Break on through blue skies
And take it high

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HornetsNest wrote:
HornetsNest wrote:

All this angst and anger over what a theoretical NPC might do?
Players will almost certainly never be in a position to spend their entire online "day" doing mundane tasks. There will probably be "fight the fire" and "rescue civilians/kittens" type mini-games in almost every zone
But would it really ruin your gaming session if you go to a cafe and see that Sparky Dude was keeping the people outside warm while Mister Steamy is making cappuccinos?

Seriously?
did you even read what I wrote?

Angst yes (I'm German so Angst is my friend) but anger? come on.
I said breaking the rules is OK.

I just think it's important for the devs to know that they Are breaking the rules, and I hope they don't do it too often.
Plus I really enjoy getting up on a soap box, in case you haven't noticed.

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Exactly. Also notice how the

Exactly. Also notice how the examples to the contrary tend to be titles that aren't that popular? :p

What do lots of superhero spoofs do? Fail or go to cult status.

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Its also possible that a very

Its also possible that a very low power Meta working on the streets gets ridiculed by other Metas, day in, day out...
But one day he has enough and goes into a fit of rage. Unbeknownst to that low powered Meta, he Taps a hidden Reserve's (wink wink) of power and just destroys a few city blocks.

What do the City Officials do then? Whos to blame? Can he claim Insa-ti-ability as his defense? :P

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I won't pick on space heater

I won't pick on space heater man.

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Better not.. I roast my

Better not.. I roast my Marshmallows with him!

--------------------------------------------------------
Personal rules of good roleplay
1.) Nothing goes as planned.
2.) If it goes as planned it's not good RP

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Although Izzy is joking....it

Although Izzy is joking....it wouldn't surprise me at all if something like that has happened before in the CoT Universe. I imagine some low grade metahuman powers could still be lethal provided you think outside the box with them.....

Formerly known as Bleddyn

Do you want to be a hero?

My characters

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"Boo hoo you got the wimpy

"Boo hoo you got the wimpy power of making bubbles...." says a thug. "Yup bubbles like the ones forming in your blood stream now." Thug drops to the ground having both heart attacks and strokes.

BUBBLES CAN KILL! All it takes is a little imagination.

--------------------------------------------------------
Personal rules of good roleplay
1.) Nothing goes as planned.
2.) If it goes as planned it's not good RP

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RottenLuck wrote:
RottenLuck wrote:

"Boo hoo you got the wimpy power of making bubbles...." says a thug. "Yup bubbles like the ones forming in your blood stream now." Thug drops to the ground having both heart attacks and strokes.
BUBBLES CAN KILL! All it takes is a little imagination.

Of course, he just did it to the thug regenner with the ability to create and control energy plasma, who gets up and kills him back then sneers "Like I said...wimpy powers yo!"
:)

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I think my favorite part of

I think my favorite part of this thread is all the people posting here and nowhere else! Nice to see everyone chiming in!

Now then, when it comes to discussing "the rules of the genre", for as long as people have been making things up and sharing them there have only ever been two rules of storytelling:

1. The first rule of being a storyteller is there are no rules
2. The second rule of being a storyteller is to always respect the rules

The same holds true for any artistic endeavor. A MMORPG is both an artistic and a technological achievement. Favoring one over the other leads to failure. This is a very unforgiving media for storytelling. Mastery here, as in any creative endeavor, comes from finding the balance between everything and nothing.

City of Titans will have divinely heroic player characters. This is inevitable because there will always be players who favor that approach. City of Titans will have divinely heroic NPCs because it will need them to tell the story of Titan City. That is also inevitable.

However, there is no reason to limit the game to the divinely heroic.

It seems to me, going by the alignment system and the few glimpses we've had of the Rooks, the Black Rose, the Five Dragons, and the Aethir Pirates, that there will have to be a few demonically evil NPCs for the divinely heroic player character to pit themselves against. Additionally, there is obviously room for demonically evil player characters (provided they don't violate the "T for Teen" rating!) who will seek out and revel in opportunities to take down the divinely heroic NPCs. If there is a mission for heroes to take down the most powerful figures in Titan City's underworld then there must also be a mission allowing villains to take down Anthem and her team.

Although I personally will be avoiding it, there is also going to be some form of PvP that will allow these divinely heroic and demonically evil player characters to pit themselves against one another.

So the extremes are definitely going to be covered. Therefore, I don't see how it would "break immersion" for Titan City to feature NPCs with limited power doing mundane tasks. Nor should it be impossible for player characters with self-created and self-enforced limits to find middle of the road missions and paths through the game narrative.

Neither the virtual world nor the real one is limited to the extremes. There is no reason to assume it simply must be one way or the other. The spectrum approach benefits both extremes along with everyone in between.

This is a very entertaining discussion thread! At least for me.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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Remember Spawn, the demonic

Remember Spawn, the demonic antihero. That was the most popular comic for years. Antiheroes like deadpool, castle and certain time periods of batman and wolverine are part of the superhero genre.

Some people like me want to play characters like that. When CoX or CoT launches, one of my blue side toons will be a thug who enjoys beating people up. He does it only to villains so as to stay on the right side of the law. He doesn't want problems with the authorities or his family, ya see.

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Greyhawk wrote:
Greyhawk wrote:

The spectrum approach benefits both extremes along with everyone in between.

The spectrum approach also creates a wide game space within which to tell stories and is nowhere near as limiting as sticking only to the extremes.

Plus, we have to take into account all the Civilians who are living in the middle of that spectrum, some of whom may be Contacts for the Missions we undertake as PCs.


Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.

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