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MeSoSollyWan
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Brand X wrote:
Brand X wrote:

I see no reason why it couldn't be possible. One thing I don't want to see, when it comes to CoT, is "The games animations suck, but hey, spiritual successor to CoH and a super hero mmo!" "The games characters look like crap, but hey, spiritual successor to CoH and a super hero mmo!"

I actually agree with you on this. I'd add on the feel of combat, too.

blacke4dawn
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Brand X wrote:
Brand X wrote:

I see no reason why it couldn't be possible. One thing I don't want to see, when it comes to CoT, is "The games animations suck, but hey, spiritual successor to CoH and a super hero mmo!" "The games characters look like crap, but hey, spiritual successor to CoH and a super hero mmo!"

Why exactly what couldn't be possible?

Brand X
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To have animations that go as

To have animations that go as smooth and look good as BnS and Tera.

blacke4dawn
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Of course it would be

Of course it would be possible, it just may not be the best use of their resources considering that they aren't done for a fixed attack but many attacks that are within a specific cast time-frame.

Sure, animations are an important part here and I agree with you that I don't want to see them suck, but on the other hand I also don't want it to come down to essentially "great animations, everything else sucks".

TheInternetJanitor
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blacke4dawn wrote:
blacke4dawn wrote:

Of course it would be possible, it just may not be the best use of their resources considering that they aren't done for a fixed attack but many attacks that are within a specific cast time-frame.

Sure, animations are an important part here and I agree with you that I don't want to see them suck, but on the other hand I also don't want it to come down to essentially "great animations, everything else sucks".

The nice thing about this is that animators generally aren't coders or designers or even necessarily working on other parts of art like textures.

Since there is no budget to worry about and everything is volunteer work every part of the project is going to be entirely based on the skills of the people working on it and what they can afford to contribute.

So having good or bad animations likely won't have much impact on the rest of the game.

blacke4dawn
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TheInternetJanitor wrote:
TheInternetJanitor wrote:
blacke4dawn wrote:

Of course it would be possible, it just may not be the best use of their resources considering that they aren't done for a fixed attack but many attacks that are within a specific cast time-frame.

Sure, animations are an important part here and I agree with you that I don't want to see them suck, but on the other hand I also don't want it to come down to essentially "great animations, everything else sucks".

The nice thing about this is that animators generally aren't coders or designers or even necessarily working on other parts of art like textures.

Since there is no budget to worry about and everything is volunteer work every part of the project is going to be entirely based on the skills of the people working on it and what they can afford to contribute.

So having good or bad animations likely won't have much impact on the rest of the game.

While it is nice to think that way time is also a resource and I'm not so sure they can just wait for animators to be ready before releasing the game, nor should they settle for animators that just do bare minimum to complete the requirements of individual animations. While animations won't affect any other part of the game individually they will have a significant effect on the game as one whole product since they are a pretty big part of how you experience/feel the game through your character.

For me, the animations on CoH was a significant part of how much I did or did not like a power set. Even with the aesthetic decoupling I can't really see that animations would have that little impact on the feel of the game as a whole. Animations are just too big of a part of this type of game to "skimp" on.

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Sure, but if you want quality

Sure, but if you want quality and you want it on the cheap you aren't going to get it fast. Just the reality of the situation.

I too would love to see the project perfect in every way and also done in the next hour.

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Good thing they've been

Good thing they've been working on the game for years :) Or is years not considered fast? :p

Animations are important! Like blacke4dawn, if I didn't like the animations of a set in CoH, I didn't like playing a set.

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I think it is very likely we

I think it is very likely we'll get "passable" animations in the beginning; or maybe even some off-the-shelf animations, which maximize the return on investment. With all the various sizes and shapes of characters and costumes, I would not be surprised at all if there were a lot of glitches and/or just generally lackluster animations that are used because they work.

But I also think that as soon as the game comes out, there will be a roadmap of targeted areas for improvement. And I am sure that some animations will be on that list. So, once the game starts making money, full time animators and others will be available to go through everything again if warranted. (and don't get me started on what I feel about MWM saying for the past four years that they didn't need any more money... )


I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
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I think a lot of people would

I think a lot of people would love to donate. I sure would. Perhaps when they are ready to show off the character creator the project will start to shift into gear, away from being a purely volunteer effort and into a more paid professional employee model. I think they are waiting to do more marketing and monetization until they have something to show.

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TheInternetJanitor wrote:
TheInternetJanitor wrote:

I think a lot of people would love to donate. I sure would. Perhaps when they are ready to show off the character creator the project will start to shift into gear, away from being a purely volunteer effort and into a more paid professional employee model. I think they are waiting to do more marketing and monetization until they have something to show.

Well, they are still waiting on doing Second Chance since they've said they won't do it until they have something solid to show (most likely fully working independent chargen). And I'm sure they have said they will use that money to hire more people to generate assets in different forms, primarily animations I think.

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I was watching an Anime the

I was watching an Anime the other day (I believe it was called the lost canvas) and they had this magical armor that comes from essentially no where. So I was thinking it would be cool if we could get a melee defense animation like that? What I mean by that is every power choice we get from the set adds another piece of armor to our characters. So for instance:
-"Helmet of Ingvald": You conjure, and equip the mighty Helmet of Ingvald. This legendary helmet was used in Ingvald's battle against the illusionist clan. It gives you resistance to stun and confusion.
-"Boot's of Namir": You conjure, and equip the Boots of Namir. These boots are said to have helped Namir push back an entire army by Herself! They give you resistance to knockback, and slightly increase movement speed.

These are just some examples. CoH had something similar to this with earth defense iirc where your character would have different parts covered in earth when you would use the respective powers. But I was thinking these could be actual armor pieces and not just a mass of rock. I envision this sort of like Erza from Fairy Tail's requip magic.

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yeah I could see it as a

yeah I could see it as a animation set for invulnerability or solid form, it could be interesting for barrier generation too

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You see this shaving basin I

You see this shaving basin I'm wearing on my head? It's the Golden Helmet of Mambrino!

To Dream, the Impossible Dream!

Or, Spear and Magic Helmet!

Be Well!
Fireheart

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Spear and magic... Hel-met!

Spear and magic... Hel-met!

Loved that episode.

Have magic circles been mentioned? Cause if not magic circles. Like, around the hands Dr. Strange style, or on the ground at the players and/or foes location.

Just like, magic circle, thing rises from the circle and flies towards your foes!

"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."

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Project_Hero wrote:
Project_Hero wrote:

Spear and magic... Hel-met!

Loved that episode.

Have magic circles been mentioned? Cause if not magic circles. Like, around the hands Dr. Strange style, or on the ground at the players and/or foes location.

Just like, magic circle, thing rises from the circle and flies towards your foes!

Not sure if they have been suggested directly but I have suggested in some thread (maybe it was more towards persistent effects) an alternative that would use mathematical formulas instead of arcane runes. I'm sure they could make a few alternatives using different symbol bases/schemes.

notears
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animations based around

animations based around animal control like the attack animations in beast summoning back in CoX all for like different animals, I want to be able to raise my hand and signal a bird to attack my foe or a dog to run over and bite my targets leg to immobolize him or a snake to grapple my opponent as a hold.

Fireheart
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Pixie-Swarm!

Pixie-Swarm!

Be Well!
Fireheart

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Animations are based on

Animations are based on character skeletons regardless of the proportions of those skeletons. We have literally around a thousand animations to pick from if I recall correctly and the techniques to line match up skeletons with animations. I think we will do quite well. We do want a good animator for some specialized bits but for a lot of basic stuff we have what we need.

-----------

Senior Developer/Project Manager/Co-Founder,,, and then some.

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Watch Thor: Ragnarok. Pay

Watch Thor: Ragnarok. Pay close attention to Thor during the bridge fight scene, and you will have some awesome lightning melee style attacks!

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Brand X wrote:
Brand X wrote:

Watch Thor: Ragnarok. Pay close attention to Thor during the bridge fight scene, and you will have some awesome lightning melee style attacks!

This. Literally watched it again last night. Good shtuff.

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Brand X wrote:
Brand X wrote:

Watch Thor: Ragnarok. Pay close attention to Thor during the bridge fight scene, and you will have some awesome lightning melee style attacks!

No one needs to tell me to watch Thor. Ragnarok. Great movie.

"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."

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I don't know if I mentioned

I don't know if I mentioned this before or not, but I want a giant fist from heaven smashing straight down upon mine enemies...both for a single attack and for an area effect attack.
and I love giant floating fists acting as ranged attacks and massive melee attacks...but I think ranged would be easier.

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That would be cool to be have

That would be cool to be have an ethereal fist as a power. A hold would just be the fist holding the enemy. AOE would be an open palm slam on the ground. Knockback would be the hand flicking the enemy away.

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Cyclops wrote:
Cyclops wrote:

I don't know if I mentioned this before or not, but I want a giant fist from heaven smashing straight down upon mine enemies...both for a single attack and for an area effect attack.
and I love giant floating fists acting as ranged attacks and massive melee attacks...but I think ranged would be easier.

Ha ha ha.... when I read this the first time I thought you said you wanted a giant fish from heaven smashing down on your enemies. And I was thinking... okay strange, but REALLY cool!

So, yeah. Give me giant fish and floating schools of glowing fish, or maybe flying piranhas, a swordfish, and sharks, and an enormous flounder I can summon from on high to flatten my foes!


I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
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Huckleberry wrote:
Huckleberry wrote:
Cyclops wrote:

I don't know if I mentioned this before or not, but I want a giant fist from heaven smashing straight down upon mine enemies...both for a single attack and for an area effect attack.
and I love giant floating fists acting as ranged attacks and massive melee attacks...but I think ranged would be easier.

Ha ha ha.... when I read this the first time I thought you said you wanted a giant fish from heaven smashing down on your enemies. And I was thinking... okay strange, but REALLY cool!

So, yeah. Give me giant fish and floating schools of glowing fish, or maybe flying piranhas, a swordfish, and sharks, and an enormous flounder I can summon from on high to flatten my foes!

I cast Summon Bigger Fish!

"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."

notears
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everything in this video

everything in this video

Cyclops
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This brought up an

This brought up an interesting animation idea: shoulder cannons that move to track the target.
This same animation could be applied to the heads of shoulder pets and such things. What do ya think?

Project_Hero
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Champions had a shoulder

Champions had a shoulder cannon/missile launcher. It was pretty rad.

"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."

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Cyclops wrote:
Cyclops wrote:

This brought up an interesting animation idea: shoulder cannons that move to track the target.
This same animation could be applied to the heads of shoulder pets and such things. What do ya think?

I think that would be an absolutely awesome idea. Little details like that can really sell a game.

Currently we have a character with a head that will move to track a locked target and will probably also track soft-locked and tabbed targets as well. I can't speak for how much coding would be required to align props like this the same way we align our characters' heads, but if it can be done, I would like to see it.

I can imagine a miniature Chinese style dragon, pale blue and glowing white that circles about my head and shoulders and focuses its gaze like a predator on whichever target I select.

Totally with that idea.


I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
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That would be cool but in PVP

That would be cool but in PVP it wouldn't be fair to other players unless it also had a weakness such as it can target another player but it moves very slowly as it follows it

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Wolfgang8565 wrote:
Wolfgang8565 wrote:

That would be cool but in PVP it wouldn't be fair to other players unless it also had a weakness such as it can target another player but it moves very slowly as it follows it

Could you please explain in more detail? I'm having trouble understanding what your concern is.


I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
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Huckleberry wrote:
Huckleberry wrote:
Wolfgang8565 wrote:

That would be cool but in PVP it wouldn't be fair to other players unless it also had a weakness such as it can target another player but it moves very slowly as it follows it

Could you please explain in more detail? I'm having trouble understanding what your concern is.

I think he thinks that you meant that it'd attack other targets and not just look at them.

Though having shoulder mounted auto guns animation for like any kind of like, ongoing DoT effects would be pretty awesome.

"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."

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If this is purely animation,

If this is purely animation, that would definitely be cool. I assumed when you said it would focus on a target you selected, I figured you wanted it as a power with a customizable look. My point was, in PVP, auto target would be an unfair advantage, but I might have misread your post. My bad.

notears
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I need a crapton of gun fu

I need a crapton of gun fu animation inspired by this video right now, I just need that in my body

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*drool*

*drool*

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Wolfgang8565 wrote:
Wolfgang8565 wrote:

If this is purely animation, that would definitely be cool. I assumed when you said it would focus on a target you selected, I figured you wanted it as a power with a customizable look. My point was, in PVP, auto target would be an unfair advantage, but I might have misread your post. My bad.

I was not referring to an auto target. It was just an animation that would track whomever the PC was currently targeting

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Wolfgang8565 wrote:
Wolfgang8565 wrote:

If this is purely animation, that would definitely be cool. I assumed when you said it would focus on a target you selected, I figured you wanted it as a power with a customizable look. My point was, in PVP, auto target would be an unfair advantage, but I might have misread your post. My bad.

Huckleberry said "focus its gaze" which means to look towards, and I'm sure he means in the same way as the player character will its gaze upon the currently selected target after having targeted it. Nothing extra beyond the standard soft/tab-targeting available to everyone, nothing to do with auto-targeting or such.

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Cyclops wrote:
Cyclops wrote:

This brought up an interesting animation idea: shoulder cannons that move to track the target.
This same animation could be applied to the heads of shoulder pets and such things. What do ya think?

I really like both the idea and the picture. Makes me think of Predator, which would be my first melee character if all/most of the costume pieces are available a launch. Would make for a great secondary or tertiary ranged power.

Compulsively clicking the refresh button until the next update.

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I want the sparta kick from

I want the sparta kick from 300

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We need Voyd powers, we just

We need Voyd powers, we just do!!

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Cyclops wrote:
Cyclops wrote:

This brought up an interesting animation idea: shoulder cannons that move to track the target.
This same animation could be applied to the heads of shoulder pets and such things. What do ya think?

Also this makes more sense as a costume part to me, like one that automatically targets whoever you're targeting, and then making them an optional emanation point

alltrueist
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We need melee speedster

We need melee speedster attacks. Dashes, whirlwinds, thousand-punches, etc. So far neither CoX, CO, or DCUO has done justice to the speedster archetype. It's not just a travel power!

For super strength: ground punch, handclap, footstomp, big uppercut, etc.

Power-armor stuff. Shoulder cannons, chest missiles, gauntlet blasts, etc.

For defensive powersets: a no-effects option. Superman doesn't sparkle, glow, or shine, yet he's still invulnerable.

City of Heroes:
Altruist, lvl 50 Invul/SS Tank
Ellodie, lvl 50 WP/Fire Tank
Omega Centauri, lvl 50 SS/Invul Brute
Project Carnivore, lvl 50 Claws/Regen Scrapper
Guardian, lvl 50 PB
Marc Century, lvl 50 Invul/EM Tank

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No effects is an interesting

No effects is an interesting and simple idea that could be applied to many power aesthetics to some degree, though you usually want some visual feedback both for the player and for others watching when abilities are used. So yes, it works best on passive and toggles. Especially defensive powers since they aren't directly impacting others.

If you have too many powers with no effects then you end up looking like the game is broken/unfinished, but that is also based on how the "no effects" aesthetic is implemented for each power animation.

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In CoX, you had "No Effect"

In CoX, you had "No Effect" options for the entirety of the Invulnerability, Regeneration, Willpower, and Super Reflexes toggles. Nothing looked broken. Your character would play the animation for the toggle on, but there were no shiny sparkles radiating off him.

In Champions Online, they completely decoupled all the defensive toggles from their aesthetic effects. They added those back in as costume auras, but that's up to the player.

I don't want to look like a disco ball just because I'm invulnerable. Toggles don't need those effects.

I agree that clickable powers should have some animation/effect. But again to bring up CoX: Dull Pain and Unstoppable (two click defensive powers) had "No FX" options. They just played their animations. I have no problem with that.

City of Heroes:
Altruist, lvl 50 Invul/SS Tank
Ellodie, lvl 50 WP/Fire Tank
Omega Centauri, lvl 50 SS/Invul Brute
Project Carnivore, lvl 50 Claws/Regen Scrapper
Guardian, lvl 50 PB
Marc Century, lvl 50 Invul/EM Tank

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I think the devs said

I think the devs said somewhere you can have no effects on everything but if your in PVP you have effects so that you don't get an unfair advantage.

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Also once we get stretching

Also once we get stretching animations, I want to use it for the swinging set, like how Elastgirl in The Incredibals 2 moves when she's not on her motorbike.

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I'm curious how a game where

I'm curious how a game where the player gets to pick their animations, would have animations for their defensive set, if they just chose none to begin with.

I'm also curious as to how that's an unfair advantage. You don't know what a non defense shield using character is, until they use their powers.

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Brand X wrote:
Brand X wrote:

I'm curious how a game where the player gets to pick their animations, would have animations for their defensive set, if they just chose none to begin with.

I'm also curious as to how that's an unfair advantage. You don't know what a non defense shield using character is, until they use their powers.

For those with experience playing PvP, visual fx are very important. First, it lets you know who is attacking you. Second, it lets you know what power is being used, which then informs you of class and power selections. Third, it lets you see opponents at farther distances and behind visual cover.

Injecting aesthetic decoupling into it will definitely steepen the learning curve when it comes to identifying archetypes and powers, but not make it impossible. This is probably a good thing.
But injecting a "no effects" option into PvP will definitely grant a significant advantage to people choosing it.


I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
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Then so be it. The games

Then so be it. The games idea is "Hey! You pick the animations, even if it's none!"

Now, we're going to get "Pick what you want, even if it's none, but when in PvP get this ugly thing, so people know!"

Hell if you want that, all they have to do is "Brand X: Kinetic Melee/Grit" as the hover name in a PvP zone :p

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Brand X wrote:
Brand X wrote:

Then so be it. The games idea is "Hey! You pick the animations, even if it's none!"

Now, we're going to get "Pick what you want, even if it's none, but when in PvP get this ugly thing, so people know!"

Hell if you want that, all they have to do is "Brand X: Kinetic Melee/Grit" as the hover name in a PvP zone :p

It'll work like how it worked in CoX when we could color our powers, it won't randomly generate your attacks, if you choose no effects then you can choose the effects you will have in PVP even if it's just you standing there why a dark grey comes out of your body.

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Also, I want rocket jumping.

Also, I want rocket jumping.

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alltrueist wrote:
alltrueist wrote:

We need melee speedster attacks. Dashes, whirlwinds, thousand-punches, etc. So far neither CoX, CO, or DCUO has done justice to the speedster archetype. It's not just a travel power!

The devs have actually mentioned speedster type attacks when talking about how different we can make our attacks look, even going so far as using "run up, throw punches, run back" as an example for a speedster type ranged attack.

So I would say that they are at least on the drawing board, maaaybe (big BIG maybe) even slated for launch.

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With Lothic's latest costume

With Lothic's latest costume idea (generic wonder woman holding a spear and shield) I had the thought of being able to map attacks to main and off-hand? I haven't seen any mention of this, and maybe it's not possible....but how cool if we could do that. Mapping some melee powers to the spear (or any main hand weapon) and others to the shield (or any off-hand weapon). Man that would be freaking amazing.

This could also apply to combo moves that deal multiple 'hits' with a single action, choosing to use both equipped weapons (if applicable) instead of just the same one every time.

Compulsively clicking the refresh button until the next update.

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I can dig it! A spear poke

I can dig it! A spear poke followed up with an shield bash....I have a concept already.

The shot he is referring to is in the costume request thread, post 1300.
https://cityoftitans.com/forum/costume-request-thread-20?page=14#new

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Wonder Woman style wall

Wonder Woman style wall crawling, like in her movie when she climbs up that tower where she uses her super strength to make a handhold to grab onto, also parkour style wall cimbing, stuff that looks more like I'm grabbing onto bricks and using them as leverage to climb up, I know you can't give us full on Assassin's Creed, cause that would be a whole new mechanic just for that animation set, but something that fakes it like Link in Breath of the Wild.

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Has Gargoyle style wall

Has Gargoyle style wall crawling been suggested?

Just like, super heavy and powerful with bits of building falling away.

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Project_Hero wrote:
Project_Hero wrote:

Has Gargoyle style wall crawling been suggested?

Just like, super heavy and powerful with bits of building falling away.

seems similar to how wonder woman wall climbs :]

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I don't remember many

I don't remember many specifics of that movie, so fair enough.

But I guess I can say, Gargoyles beat her to it :p

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Definitely has somewhere. I

Definitely has somewhere. I think in reference to hulk.

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Dark Cleric wrote:
Dark Cleric wrote:

With Lothic's latest costume idea (generic wonder woman holding a spear and shield) I had the thought of being able to map attacks to main and off-hand? I haven't seen any mention of this, and maybe it's not possible....but how cool if we could do that. Mapping some melee powers to the spear (or any main hand weapon) and others to the shield (or any off-hand weapon). Man that would be freaking amazing.

This could also apply to combo moves that deal multiple 'hits' with a single action, choosing to use both equipped weapons (if applicable) instead of just the same one every time.

99.9% certain you will be able to map individual attacks/abilities to separate props, so at least chaining abilities would give a good visual for alternating between hands. I just can't imagine that we won't be able to have a simple off-hand shield bash for any sword-'n-board styled aesthetics.

As for combining both props within the same animation, that might be harder when chosen separately but we'll have to wait to see what the choices actually are. Maybe it will be easier for MWM to just make "dual wielding" (including shield + one-hander) be a single prop choice instead of choosing two and combining them. As in instead of having to "sacrifice" my second prop choice for another pistol if I want to dual-wield pistols I just choose "dual pistols" instead, same for sword-'n-board type combos.

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More wall crawling animation

More wall crawling animation ideas!
With any kind of clawy wall crawling (like my gargoyles gif) having the animation for moving down a wall be like sliding down as you use your claws to slow your decent. Could also work with props like swords.

Wall crawling that's extended wall running.

Wall crawling that's just your character able to walk up walls

One where your character slides around the wall? I dunno.

Super speed animation suggestion!

Something like this!

"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."

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I would like this type of

I would like this type of transformation animation:

Except a bit better.

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I got to thinking, besides

I got to thinking, besides wanting a melee lunge ability that does great damage, so it can be added to the attack chain, I would love some attacks that had one disappear and then reappear for an attack.

Now, the lunge got me thinking of this, because I thought of Void Strike (or whatever the lunge is called in CO) that basically teleports you to the target with a punch. Then I got to thinking, an animation, where you basically go invisible, but the hit box stays right there, and an image of you hits the target from behind before vanishing and reappearing where you were.

The hit box stays in the same place, as it would be unfair to have it get rid of the target on the player, so technically, the player is in the same spot, the animation just made it look like they weren't. This could then be done with a more powerful attack, where you see 3-4 hits happen, where the character disappears then really quickly shows up on the sides of the enemy with 3-4 different attack animations (simple punch/kick combos).

Thinking this would be something along the lines of what we've seen Nightcrawler do.

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Brand X wrote:
Brand X wrote:

I got to thinking, besides wanting a melee lunge ability that does great damage, so it can be added to the attack chain, I would love some attacks that had one disappear and then reappear for an attack.

Now, the lunge got me thinking of this, because I thought of Void Strike (or whatever the lunge is called in CO) that basically teleports you to the target with a punch. Then I got to thinking, an animation, where you basically go invisible, but the hit box stays right there, and an image of you hits the target from behind before vanishing and reappearing where you were.

The hit box stays in the same place, as it would be unfair to have it get rid of the target on the player, so technically, the player is in the same spot, the animation just made it look like they weren't. This could then be done with a more powerful attack, where you see 3-4 hits happen, where the character disappears then really quickly shows up on the sides of the enemy with 3-4 different attack animations (simple punch/kick combos).

Thinking this would be something along the lines of what we've seen Nightcrawler do.

Sounds like an application of the ranged speedster attack aesthetics example MWM has mentioned here, run up throw some punches then run back. That is that mechanically speaking your character stays in place but visually it moves to and from the target in some manner. Hopefully we'll get a few variations on that basic concept.

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Brand X wrote:
Brand X wrote:

I got to thinking, besides wanting a melee lunge ability that does great damage, so it can be added to the attack chain, I would love some attacks that had one disappear and then reappear for an attack.

Now, the lunge got me thinking of this, because I thought of Void Strike (or whatever the lunge is called in CO) that basically teleports you to the target with a punch. Then I got to thinking, an animation, where you basically go invisible, but the hit box stays right there, and an image of you hits the target from behind before vanishing and reappearing where you were.

The hit box stays in the same place, as it would be unfair to have it get rid of the target on the player, so technically, the player is in the same spot, the animation just made it look like they weren't. This could then be done with a more powerful attack, where you see 3-4 hits happen, where the character disappears then really quickly shows up on the sides of the enemy with 3-4 different attack animations (simple punch/kick combos).

Thinking this would be something along the lines of what we've seen Nightcrawler do.

I see this would be inconsistent with barriers, traps and emanation fields around the target. Furthermore, making a ranged attack look like the character got close enough to perform a melee attack would create a dilemma from the game mechanics point of view, since there are different defenses versus melee and ranged attacks.

Try as I might, I don't see a way to make what you want happen in a way that makes sense. Maybe my creativity is just too low this morning.


I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
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Huckleberry wrote:
Huckleberry wrote:
Brand X wrote:

I got to thinking, besides wanting a melee lunge ability that does great damage, so it can be added to the attack chain, I would love some attacks that had one disappear and then reappear for an attack.

Now, the lunge got me thinking of this, because I thought of Void Strike (or whatever the lunge is called in CO) that basically teleports you to the target with a punch. Then I got to thinking, an animation, where you basically go invisible, but the hit box stays right there, and an image of you hits the target from behind before vanishing and reappearing where you were.

The hit box stays in the same place, as it would be unfair to have it get rid of the target on the player, so technically, the player is in the same spot, the animation just made it look like they weren't. This could then be done with a more powerful attack, where you see 3-4 hits happen, where the character disappears then really quickly shows up on the sides of the enemy with 3-4 different attack animations (simple punch/kick combos).

Thinking this would be something along the lines of what we've seen Nightcrawler do.

I see this would be inconsistent with barriers, traps and emanation fields around the target. Furthermore, making a ranged attack look like the character got close enough to perform a melee attack would create a dilemma from the game mechanics point of view, since there are different defenses versus melee and ranged attacks.

Try as I might, I don't see a way to make what you want happen in a way that makes sense. Maybe my creativity is just too low this morning.

Why would it make a dilemma? A ranged attack is still a ranged attack even if the animation makes it look like a melee attack.

Only problem I can see with such an animation is what happens to the effects that are on the character, do they hang around the now invisible character? Do they fade out with the character? Or are they placed on the image of the character?

"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."

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I saw a spear and shield

I saw a spear and shield combo in the costume thread. A one handed spear is a stabbing weapon, but ranged spear attacks would be cool too. Make a Tertiary ranged attack all the more fun.

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Huckleberry wrote:
Huckleberry wrote:
Brand X wrote:

I got to thinking, besides wanting a melee lunge ability that does great damage, so it can be added to the attack chain, I would love some attacks that had one disappear and then reappear for an attack.

Now, the lunge got me thinking of this, because I thought of Void Strike (or whatever the lunge is called in CO) that basically teleports you to the target with a punch. Then I got to thinking, an animation, where you basically go invisible, but the hit box stays right there, and an image of you hits the target from behind before vanishing and reappearing where you were.

The hit box stays in the same place, as it would be unfair to have it get rid of the target on the player, so technically, the player is in the same spot, the animation just made it look like they weren't. This could then be done with a more powerful attack, where you see 3-4 hits happen, where the character disappears then really quickly shows up on the sides of the enemy with 3-4 different attack animations (simple punch/kick combos).

Thinking this would be something along the lines of what we've seen Nightcrawler do.

I see this would be inconsistent with barriers, traps and emanation fields around the target. Furthermore, making a ranged attack look like the character got close enough to perform a melee attack would create a dilemma from the game mechanics point of view, since there are different defenses versus melee and ranged attacks.

Try as I might, I don't see a way to make what you want happen in a way that makes sense. Maybe my creativity is just too low this morning.

I have no idea if a lunge attack is consider range or melee.

As for my idea, I thought of it as melee, because I imagined one to be in melee range when doing it, because it was a melee class suggestion.

However, I could see making it part of a range class animation as well, so the real difference would be, are you using the animations for a range set or a melee set.

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Brand X wrote:
Brand X wrote:

I have no idea if a lunge attack is consider range or melee.

As for my idea, I thought of it as melee, because I imagined one to be in melee range when doing it, because it was a melee class suggestion.

However, I could see making it part of a range class animation as well, so the real difference would be, are you using the animations for a range set or a melee set.

First, I would stop calling it a lunge attack, and just call it a lunge animation, because whether it is a melee or a ranged or an AoE attack will depend on the power in the powerset you have assigned the animation to.

Second, since you are considering it an aesthetic option for an existing melee attack, that kind of negates my whole argument about using it for a ranged power. So please kindly disregard my previous post. If you are standing in melee range with an opponent and you want your attack to look like you flashed behind your opponent for a moment and and then went back to where you originated, that sounds like a pretty cool aesthetic to me, and I see no mechanical problems with it either.

Project_Hero wrote:

Why would it make a dilemma? A ranged attack is still a ranged attack even if the animation makes it look like a melee attack.

True, but the concept BrandX put forth is to actually make it as if the character teleported to perform an actual melee attack on the target. It is this concept we were discussing.

If you want to make it just look like a melee attack, there are other means of doing so with illusions, projections, and the like, while still keeping the attacking character at range. In these cases, we would not need to make it look like a teleport and the attacking character would not disappear. Thus it would not be the concept BrandX was proposing.

Project_Hero wrote:

Only problem I can see with such an animation is what happens to the effects that are on the character, do they hang around the now invisible character? Do they fade out with the character? Or are they placed on the image of the character?

I'll assume you are discussing BranX's concept of a teleporting attack. If it were up to me, I would keep all the effects on the image, since the image is supposed to be the character according to this concept.


I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
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If it's an attack that moves

If it's an attack that moves you to the enemy it's a melee attack. If it doesn't move you and just plays an animation of you going there it's a ranged attack

A lunge is a melee attack that can be performed at a range.

Same as anytime you're up close and personal blasting you're performing a ranged attack in melee.

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Lunge attacks tend to move

Lunge attacks tend to move the melee character to melee range of the target. They can generally be used in melee range as well, which is why I said I'd like for such an attack to have good damage and not just be a utility power.

As for the teleport aspect of it, some of that is just different animations. Lunge attacks for instance could be a leap style animation or the teleport style animation I suggest. I liked CO's Void Shift (?) because it gave me the impression of really fast movement to a target. Like when two enemies face off and the next thing they know, one is behind the other in the blink of an eye. :)

However, I did like the idea of it being used as a range attack animation. The reason I said the character disappears, but keeps the character where they are, was a matter of me believing it just may be easier on players, so they don't lose tab target or have to spin the camera or now a range character risking get melee attacked when they use the attack on a melee character.

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Brand X wrote:
Brand X wrote:

However, I did like the idea of it being used as a range attack animation. The reason I said the character disappears, but keeps the character where they are, was a matter of me believing it just may be easier on players, so they don't lose tab target or have to spin the camera or now a range character risking get melee attacked when they use the attack on a melee character.

Not only that but if the character actually moved during such an attack they could become out of range for others during that animation.

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Project_Hero wrote:
Project_Hero wrote:

If it's an attack that moves you to the enemy it's a melee attack. If it doesn't move you and just plays an animation of you going there it's a ranged attack

A lunge is a melee attack that can be performed at a range.

Same as anytime you're up close and personal blasting you're performing a ranged attack in melee.

Melee is an actual type of attack. There is also Ranged and Area of Effect types of attacks. A player has three Defense stats. One versus melee attacks, one versus ranged attacks and one versus AoE attacks. Therefore, if a player has a ranged power in their power set, the game is designed for that power to be considered a ranged attack. I don't think it is realistic to expect the game to reclassify a ranged attack as a melee attack or vice versa just because of the aesthetic we want to emulate.


I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
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Nothing is reclassifying

Nothing is reclassifying anything.

If it's an attack that starts at a range but then moves the character into melee range to make an attack then it is a melee attack.

If it's an attack that starts at a range but only makes your character -look- like they're moving into melee range then it's a ranged attack.

It's pretty simple to classify the attacks. Once you can wrap your head around 5e's attack classifications this is nothing.

Not all attacks made at a range are ranged attacks.

And not all attacks made in melee are melee attacks.

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Project_Hero wrote:
Project_Hero wrote:

Not all attacks made at a range are ranged attacks.

And not all attacks made in melee are melee attacks.

You sound awfully confident about this, especially considering we've only seen 2 powers from every power set. Do you know something the rest of us don't?


I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
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Huckleberry wrote:
Huckleberry wrote:
Project_Hero wrote:

Not all attacks made at a range are ranged attacks.

And not all attacks made in melee are melee attacks.

You sound awfully confident about this, especially considering we've only seen 2 powers from every power set. Do you know something the rest of us don't?

Not that I know of. But there's not much sense in redefining a ranged attack in melee range as a melee attack.

Same as there's not much sense in having a power that moves you then attacks in melee considered a ranged attack.

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Project_Hero wrote:
Project_Hero wrote:
Huckleberry wrote:
Project_Hero wrote:

Not all attacks made at a range are ranged attacks.

And not all attacks made in melee are melee attacks.

You sound awfully confident about this, especially considering we've only seen 2 powers from every power set. Do you know something the rest of us don't?

Not that I know of. But there's not much sense in redefining a ranged attack in melee range as a melee attack.

Same as there's not much sense in having a power that moves you then attacks in melee considered a ranged attack.

Please forgive me, but I can't tell what point you're trying to make anymore.


I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
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I think PH's point was

I think PH's point was "Common sense, says it would most likely play out in this way."

I never saw a lunge attack as a range attack, I however could see some people thinking it is.

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I wanna run and walk on my

I wanna run and walk on my hands. I wanna make a guy whose arms are so big in order to move anywhere he has to use his hands as feet, and he picks things up and manipulates things with his feet instead

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Brand X wrote:
Brand X wrote:

I think PH's point was "Common sense, says it would most likely play out in this way."

I never saw a lunge attack as a range attack, I however could see some people thinking it is.

Bingo.

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The ability to roll forward

The ability to roll forward and backward as if dodging (wouldn't be dodging since this is tab targetting they're doing) or using it just as a way to move during a fight.

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Brand X wrote:
Brand X wrote:

The ability to roll forward and backward as if dodging (wouldn't be dodging since this is tab targetting they're doing) or using it just as a way to move during a fight.

;)

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:
Brand X wrote:

The ability to roll forward and backward as if dodging (wouldn't be dodging since this is tab targetting they're doing) or using it just as a way to move during a fight.

;)

Hah. STO actually included that, and while it's almost entirely useless, the fanbase likes it.

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See! It helps! :)

See! It helps! :)

Sure, it'd more likely help in a game where most attacks aren't tab targeted and one can just get out of the way, but either way, fun and it helps :)

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Brand X wrote:
Halae wrote:

Hah. STO actually included that, and while it's almost entirely useless, the fanbase likes it.

Kirk-Fu is awesome! ;)

Brand X wrote:

See! It helps! :)

Sure, it'd more likely help in a game where most attacks aren't tab targeted and one can just get out of the way, but either way, fun and it helps :)

I never said I was against it. I pretty much agree the more animations/emotes we have the better. :)

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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I like the responses of, "It

I like the responses of, "It's almost entirely useless" followed by "See, it helps."

Also, have played STO can confirm Roll is pretty much useless.

For a dodge animation I'm not entirely sure. Maybe as part of a dodge animation? Like you have your active dodge power on (like one that increases your dodge rate, however it's called, by a lot for a small time frame) then if you move while it's active you roll. But like one where you just like roll out of the way? Unless the game is fine with flinging your character somewhere uncontrolled by the player (other than KB or some other control effect) then they'd need to immediately roll back to their starting position... Which would probably look goofy as funk.

Rolling around at the speed of sound as a travel power would work. Champions did it.

"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."

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Or make it a power. Just

Or make it a power. Just like a lunge power. It moves you. I'd just like to be able to use forward and backwards. Backwards or forward would could be a dodge. Forward could also be to get in closer while dodging.

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If it matters to the game

If it matters to the game system, perhaps backward for a dodge versus a melee power, and to one side or the other for a dodge versus ranged powers.

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It has already been stated we

It has already been stated we're not going to have any dodging in this game other than what is included in a character's evasion stat. Combat rolls would be just for looks. And since we won't even have cover mechanics, it wouldn't do anyone any good to roll behind rocks or woodpiles. But I think combat rolls for lunge attacks and for back-step moves would be a pretty stellar aesthetic nonetheless.


I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.

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