Brand X wrote:

I see no reason why it couldn't be possible. One thing I don't want to see, when it comes to CoT, is "The games animations suck, but hey, spiritual successor to CoH and a super hero mmo!" "The games characters look like crap, but hey, spiritual successor to CoH and a super hero mmo!"

Why exactly what couldn't be possible?

Of course it would be possible, it just may not be the best use of their resources considering that they aren't done for a fixed attack but many attacks that are within a specific cast time-frame.

Sure, animations are an important part here and I agree with you that I don't want to see them suck, but on the other hand I also don't want it to come down to essentially "great animations, everything else sucks".

TheInternetJanitor wrote:

blacke4dawn wrote:

Of course it would be possible, it just may not be the best use of their resources considering that they aren't done for a fixed attack but many attacks that are within a specific cast time-frame.

Sure, animations are an important part here and I agree with you that I don't want to see them suck, but on the other hand I also don't want it to come down to essentially "great animations, everything else sucks".

The nice thing about this is that animators generally aren't coders or designers or even necessarily working on other parts of art like textures.

Since there is no budget to worry about and everything is volunteer work every part of the project is going to be entirely based on the skills of the people working on it and what they can afford to contribute.

So having good or bad animations likely won't have much impact on the rest of the game.

While it is nice to think that way time is also a resource and I'm not so sure they can just wait for animators to be ready before releasing the game, nor should they settle for animators that just do bare minimum to complete the requirements of individual animations. While animations won't affect any other part of the game individually they will have a significant effect on the game as one whole product since they are a pretty big part of how you experience/feel the game through your character.

For me, the animations on CoH was a significant part of how much I did or did not like a power set. Even with the aesthetic decoupling I can't really see that animations would have that little impact on the feel of the game as a whole. Animations are just too big of a part of this type of game to "skimp" on.

Good thing they've been working on the game for years :) Or is years not considered fast? :p

Animations are important! Like blacke4dawn, if I didn't like the animations of a set in CoH, I didn't like playing a set.

I was watching an Anime the other day (I believe it was called the lost canvas) and they had this magical armor that comes from essentially no where. So I was thinking it would be cool if we could get a melee defense animation like that? What I mean by that is every power choice we get from the set adds another piece of armor to our characters. So for instance:
-"Helmet of Ingvald": You conjure, and equip the mighty Helmet of Ingvald. This legendary helmet was used in Ingvald's battle against the illusionist clan. It gives you resistance to stun and confusion.
-"Boot's of Namir": You conjure, and equip the Boots of Namir. These boots are said to have helped Namir push back an entire army by Herself! They give you resistance to knockback, and slightly increase movement speed.

These are just some examples. CoH had something similar to this with earth defense iirc where your character would have different parts covered in earth when you would use the respective powers. But I was thinking these could be actual armor pieces and not just a mass of rock. I envision this sort of like Erza from Fairy Tail's requip magic.

You see this shaving basin I'm wearing on my head? It's the Golden Helmet of Mambrino!

To Dream, the Impossible Dream!

Or, Spear and Magic Helmet! [youtube]5kH0Bag0akc[/youtube]

Be Well!
Fireheart

Project_Hero wrote:

Spear and magic... Hel-met!

Loved that episode.

Have magic circles been mentioned? Cause if not magic circles. Like, around the hands Dr. Strange style, or on the ground at the players and/or foes location.

Just like, magic circle, thing rises from the circle and flies towards your foes!

Not sure if they have been suggested directly but I have suggested in some thread (maybe it was more towards persistent effects) an alternative that would use mathematical formulas instead of arcane runes. I'm sure they could make a few alternatives using different symbol bases/schemes.

Pixie-Swarm!

Be Well!
Fireheart

Watch Thor: Ragnarok. Pay close attention to Thor during the bridge fight scene, and you will have some awesome lightning melee style attacks!

Brand X wrote:

Watch Thor: Ragnarok. Pay close attention to Thor during the bridge fight scene, and you will have some awesome lightning melee style attacks!

No one needs to tell me to watch Thor. Ragnarok. Great movie.

That would be cool to be have an ethereal fist as a power. A hold would just be the fist holding the enemy. AOE would be an open palm slam on the ground. Knockback would be the hand flicking the enemy away.

Huckleberry wrote:

Cyclops wrote:

I don't know if I mentioned this before or not, but I want a giant fist from heaven smashing straight down upon mine enemies...both for a single attack and for an area effect attack.
and I love giant floating fists acting as ranged attacks and massive melee attacks...but I think ranged would be easier.

Ha ha ha.... when I read this the first time I thought you said you wanted a giant [i]fish[/i] from heaven smashing down on your enemies. And I was thinking... okay strange, but REALLY cool!

So, yeah. Give me giant fish and floating schools of glowing fish, or maybe flying piranhas, a swordfish, and sharks, and an enormous flounder I can summon from on high to flatten my foes!

I cast Summon Bigger Fish!

This brought up an interesting animation idea: shoulder cannons that move to track the target.
This same animation could be applied to the heads of shoulder pets and such things. What do ya think?
[img]https://s33.postimg.cc/c166x7933/marvel_fan_art_the_ultimate_spider_slayer_by_davidszaboart-da2.jpg[/img]

Cyclops wrote:

This brought up an interesting animation idea: shoulder cannons that move to track the target.
This same animation could be applied to the heads of shoulder pets and such things. What do ya think?

I think that would be an absolutely awesome idea. Little details like that can really sell a game.

Currently we have a character with a head that will move to track a locked target and will probably also track soft-locked and tabbed targets as well. I can't speak for how much coding would be required to align props like this the same way we align our characters' heads, but if it can be done, I would like to see it.

I can imagine a miniature Chinese style dragon, pale blue and glowing white that circles about my head and shoulders and focuses its gaze like a predator on whichever target I select.

Totally with that idea.

Wolfgang8565 wrote:

That would be cool but in PVP it wouldn't be fair to other players unless it also had a weakness such as it can target another player but it moves very slowly as it follows it

Could you please explain in more detail? I'm having trouble understanding what your concern is.

If this is purely animation, that would definitely be cool. I assumed when you said it would focus on a target you selected, I figured you wanted it as a power with a customizable look. My point was, in PVP, auto target would be an unfair advantage, but I might have misread your post. My bad.

*drool*

Wolfgang8565 wrote:

If this is purely animation, that would definitely be cool. I assumed when you said it would focus on a target you selected, I figured you wanted it as a power with a customizable look. My point was, in PVP, auto target would be an unfair advantage, but I might have misread your post. My bad.

Huckleberry said "focus its gaze" which means to look towards, and I'm sure he means in the same way as the player character will its gaze upon the currently selected target after having targeted it. Nothing extra beyond the standard soft/tab-targeting available to everyone, nothing to do with auto-targeting or such.

I'm curious how a game where the player gets to pick their animations, would have animations for their defensive set, if they just chose none to begin with.

I'm also curious as to how that's an unfair advantage. You don't know what a non defense shield using character is, until they use their powers.

Then so be it. The games idea is "Hey! You pick the animations, even if it's none!"

Now, we're going to get "Pick what you want, even if it's none, but when in PvP get this ugly thing, so people know!"

Hell if you want that, all they have to do is "Brand X: Kinetic Melee/Grit" as the hover name in a PvP zone :p

With Lothic's latest costume idea (generic wonder woman holding a spear and shield) I had the thought of being able to map attacks to main and off-hand? I haven't seen any mention of this, and maybe it's not possible....but how cool if we could do that. Mapping some melee powers to the spear (or any main hand weapon) and others to the shield (or any off-hand weapon). Man that would be freaking amazing.

This could also apply to combo moves that deal multiple 'hits' with a single action, choosing to use both equipped weapons (if applicable) instead of just the same one every time.

Definitely has somewhere. I think in reference to hulk.

More wall crawling animation ideas!
With any kind of clawy wall crawling (like my gargoyles gif) having the animation for moving down a wall be like sliding down as you use your claws to slow your decent. Could also work with props like swords.

Wall crawling that's extended wall running.

Wall crawling that's just your character able to walk up walls
[img]https://i.imgur.com/i2W6xyG.gif[/img]

One where your character slides around the wall? I dunno.

Super speed animation suggestion!

Something like this!
[img]https://i.pinimg.com/originals/b7/bb/9d/b7bb9d9cb1550384a73d5388956b9517.gif[/img]

I got to thinking, besides wanting a melee lunge ability that does great damage, so it can be added to the attack chain, I would love some attacks that had one disappear and then reappear for an attack.

Now, the lunge got me thinking of this, because I thought of Void Strike (or whatever the lunge is called in CO) that basically teleports you to the target with a punch. Then I got to thinking, an animation, where you basically go invisible, but the hit box stays right there, and an image of you hits the target from behind before vanishing and reappearing where you were.

The hit box stays in the same place, as it would be unfair to have it get rid of the target on the player, so technically, the player is in the same spot, the animation just made it look like they weren't. This could then be done with a more powerful attack, where you see 3-4 hits happen, where the character disappears then really quickly shows up on the sides of the enemy with 3-4 different attack animations (simple punch/kick combos).

Thinking this would be something along the lines of what we've seen Nightcrawler do.

Brand X wrote:

I got to thinking, besides wanting a melee lunge ability that does great damage, so it can be added to the attack chain, I would love some attacks that had one disappear and then reappear for an attack.

Now, the lunge got me thinking of this, because I thought of Void Strike (or whatever the lunge is called in CO) that basically teleports you to the target with a punch. Then I got to thinking, an animation, where you basically go invisible, but the hit box stays right there, and an image of you hits the target from behind before vanishing and reappearing where you were.

The hit box stays in the same place, as it would be unfair to have it get rid of the target on the player, so technically, the player is in the same spot, the animation just made it look like they weren't. This could then be done with a more powerful attack, where you see 3-4 hits happen, where the character disappears then really quickly shows up on the sides of the enemy with 3-4 different attack animations (simple punch/kick combos).

Thinking this would be something along the lines of what we've seen Nightcrawler do.

I see this would be inconsistent with barriers, traps and emanation fields around the target. Furthermore, making a ranged attack look like the character got close enough to perform a melee attack would create a dilemma from the game mechanics point of view, since there are different defenses versus melee and ranged attacks.

Try as I might, I don't see a way to make what you want happen in a way that makes sense. Maybe my creativity is just too low this morning.

I saw a spear and shield combo in the costume thread. A one handed spear is a stabbing weapon, but ranged spear attacks would be cool too. Make a Tertiary ranged attack all the more fun.

Brand X wrote:

I have no idea if a lunge attack is consider range or melee.

As for my idea, I thought of it as melee, because I imagined one to be in melee range when doing it, because it was a melee class suggestion.

However, I could see making it part of a range class animation as well, so the real difference would be, are you using the animations for a range set or a melee set.

First, I would stop calling it a lunge attack, and just call it a lunge animation, because whether it is a melee or a ranged or an AoE attack will depend on the power in the powerset you have assigned the animation to.

Second, since you are considering it an aesthetic option for an existing melee attack, that kind of negates my whole argument about using it for a ranged power. So please kindly disregard my previous post. If you are standing in melee range with an opponent and you want your attack to look like you flashed behind your opponent for a moment and and then went back to where you originated, that sounds like a pretty cool aesthetic to me, and I see no mechanical problems with it either.

Project_Hero wrote:

Why would it make a dilemma? A ranged attack is still a ranged attack even if the animation makes it look like a melee attack.

True, but the concept BrandX put forth is to actually make it as if the character teleported to perform an actual melee attack on the target. It is this concept we were discussing.

If you want to make it just look like a melee attack, there are other means of doing so with illusions, projections, and the like, while still keeping the attacking character at range. In these cases, we would not need to make it look like a teleport and the attacking character would not disappear. Thus it would not be the concept BrandX was proposing.

Project_Hero wrote:

Only problem I can see with such an animation is what happens to the effects that are on the character, do they hang around the now invisible character? Do they fade out with the character? Or are they placed on the image of the character?

I'll assume you are discussing BranX's concept of a teleporting attack. If it were up to me, I would keep all the effects on the image, since the image is supposed to be the character according to this concept.

Lunge attacks tend to move the melee character to melee range of the target. They can generally be used in melee range as well, which is why I said I'd like for such an attack to have good damage and not just be a utility power.

As for the teleport aspect of it, some of that is just different animations. Lunge attacks for instance could be a leap style animation or the teleport style animation I suggest. I liked CO's Void Shift (?) because it gave me the impression of really fast movement to a target. Like when two enemies face off and the next thing they know, one is behind the other in the blink of an eye. :)

However, I did like the idea of it being used as a range attack animation. The reason I said the character disappears, but keeps the character where they are, was a matter of me believing it just may be easier on players, so they don't lose tab target or have to spin the camera or now a range character risking get melee attacked when they use the attack on a melee character.

Project_Hero wrote:

If it's an attack that moves you to the enemy it's a melee attack. If it doesn't move you and just plays an animation of you going there it's a ranged attack

A lunge is a melee attack that can be performed at a range.

Same as anytime you're up close and personal blasting you're performing a ranged attack in melee.

Melee is an actual type of attack. There is also Ranged and Area of Effect types of attacks. A player has three [i]Defense[/i] stats. One versus melee attacks, one versus ranged attacks and one versus AoE attacks. Therefore, if a player has a ranged power in their power set, the game is designed for that power to be considered a ranged attack. I don't think it is realistic to expect the game to reclassify a ranged attack as a melee attack or vice versa just because of the aesthetic we want to emulate.

Project_Hero wrote:

Not all attacks made at a range are ranged attacks.

And not all attacks made in melee are melee attacks.

You sound awfully confident about this, especially considering we've only seen 2 powers from every power set. Do you know something the rest of us don't?

Project_Hero wrote:

Huckleberry wrote:

Project_Hero wrote:

Not all attacks made at a range are ranged attacks.

And not all attacks made in melee are melee attacks.

You sound awfully confident about this, especially considering we've only seen 2 powers from every power set. Do you know something the rest of us don't?

Not that I know of. But there's not much sense in redefining a ranged attack in melee range as a melee attack.

Same as there's not much sense in having a power that moves you then attacks in melee considered a ranged attack.

Please forgive me, but I can't tell what point you're trying to make anymore.

I wanna run and walk on my hands. I wanna make a guy whose arms are so big in order to move anywhere he has to use his hands as feet, and he picks things up and manipulates things with his feet instead

The ability to roll forward and backward as if dodging (wouldn't be dodging since this is tab targetting they're doing) or using it just as a way to move during a fight.

Lothic wrote:

Brand X wrote:

The ability to roll forward and backward as if dodging (wouldn't be dodging since this is tab targetting they're doing) or using it just as a way to move during a fight.

[youtube=500x300]hl3E75J9AGs[/youtube]

;)

Hah. STO actually included that, and while it's almost entirely useless, the fanbase likes it.

Halae wrote:

Hah. STO actually included that, and while it's almost entirely useless, the fanbase likes it.

Kirk-Fu is awesome! ;)

[img=400x400]https://darkwingchun.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/kirkfu2_super.jpg[/img]

Brand X wrote:

See! It helps! :)

Sure, it'd more likely help in a game where most attacks aren't tab targeted and one can just get out of the way, but either way, fun and it helps :)

I never said I was against it. I pretty much agree the more animations/emotes we have the better. :)

Or make it a power. Just like a lunge power. It moves you. I'd just like to be able to use forward and backwards. Backwards or forward would could be a dodge. Forward could also be to get in closer while dodging.

It has already been stated we're not going to have any dodging in this game other than what is included in a character's evasion stat. Combat rolls would be just for looks. And since we won't even have cover mechanics, it wouldn't do anyone any good to roll behind rocks or woodpiles. But I think combat rolls for lunge attacks and for back-step moves would be a pretty stellar aesthetic nonetheless.