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Brainbot
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Unless the wings are rocket

Unless the wings are rocket powered or the rope is magic. Could also be done the same way as Just Cause with a deployable parachute.

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Radiac wrote:
Radiac wrote:

Cyclops mentioned Swinging as a travel power above. I still hate that as a "go anywhere" travel power, as it would patently not work over flat terrain, water, or anywhere else that doesn't provide you with obvious places to attach a web or grapnel, etc. If the idea is to anchor the rope or whatever in mid air, that just sucks, to me.

Yeah TBH the idea of a Swinging travel power that DOESN'T need buildings or other structures to anchor the line to is a stretch for my suspension of disbelief. Now (like Brainbot said) in some cases you could rationalize it away as a "magic rope" that could lock itself in mid-air using "magic" or some such. But the idea that EVERYBODY who swings is going to be using a super-special magic rope that can do that is a little dubious to say the least.

Radiac wrote:

It would look extraordinarily goofy and wrong, like wings that let you fly but don't flap.

Wings don't have to flap to allow flight. Just ask Buzz Lightyear (with locked fixed wing rocket powered flight) or anybody who glides with wings. Now maybe if a person's wings are like "angel" or "devil" wings and they can fly without flapping then maybe I could see your problem with that.

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Fixed wing design is one

Fixed wing design is one thing, but I think he was talking about this

And all I was trying to do was point out that limiting abilities to an individuals sensibilities is not a good idea. Wings don't have to move and ropes don't have to attach to something. In most cases the issues people have with something has been considered long before you knew about them. Wonder Woman can fly yet part of her armor in the Kingdom Come mini series is golden wings. Rope movement has been a thing for a long long time from old Arabian tales to D&D's 'Rope Trick' spell to Just Cause and the parachute.

On the subject of wings, I would love wings that were a part of the arms and not grown from the back. It can be Icarus type wings that are worn, they can be a suit with spider man wing foils or they can be a natural feather growth that folds out when in flight. It can even be any combination of those. I just would like an option which does not put a big thing on my back some times.


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Radiac wrote:
Radiac wrote:

Cyclops mentioned Swinging as a travel power above. I still hate that as a "go anywhere" travel power, as it would patently not work over flat terrain, water, or anywhere else that doesn't provide you with obvious places to attach a web or grapnel, etc. If the idea is to anchor the rope or whatever in mid air, that just sucks, to me. It would look extraordinarily goofy and wrong, like wings that let you fly but don't flap.
Just my opinion.

Dude... this is a superhero game... the superhero genre is well known for being outlandish and fantastical, and there's already a superhero who can swing around as a go anywhere power!! Namely Spider-Man!!! It's his go to travel power!!

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Radiac wrote:
Radiac wrote:

Swinging as a travel power above.

Initially, I thought the travel power was to grab random keys out of the bowl by the door and that person has to take you wherever you need to go. I'm glad I read Radiac's description and had things clarified.

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I did state it was just my

I did state it was just my opinion. I think the CoT devs are actually planning on doing Swinging (was it mentioned on the Kickstarter? I forget now...). I just personally wouldn't, that's all. Spider-man and Batman aren't using some form of magic when they swing on their various swinglines, they're supposedly using some kind of rope or polymer extrusion to anchor to a building and then swing like a pendulum from there. It works in comics and cartoons mostly because you have the freedom to put the necessary building off camera somewhere and just brush the realism aside. In an MMO you don't have that level of control. Even if the swinger is using 1st person PoV, those of us in the area will see the swingling attaching to thin air and have to try not to laugh at the ridiculousness of it all. In the comics they're attaching those lines to real, solid buildings, at least in theory. And they always START on the roof of some building or another first. I like wallcrawling. I don't have a problem with that. But allowing the use of swinging in places when swinging CLEARLY won't help you just harshes my suspension of disbelief way too much.

Seeing it just makes me go "Ugh... there's ALWAYS a canal?!?!" a la that episode of the Simpsons with Nightboat, the crime solving boat.

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notears wrote:
notears wrote:

Dude... this is a superhero game... the superhero genre is well known for being outlandish and fantastical, and there's already a superhero who can swing around as a go anywhere power!! Namely Spider-Man!!! It's his go to travel power!!

You'll note, however, that Spiderman does not swing in the desert or out to sea. Spiderman shares the basic powerset of all comic heroes - Plot-Power. Any time he needs to swing, lo, there is a conveniently placed thing to swing from.

Players in a MMO cannot count on that. Well, not usually. You'll note that, in the posted game-footage, there happened to be coincidentally convenient swing points and the character never tried to swing at a place where there was no anchor for her laser-tentacle.

Be Well!
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Radiac wrote:
Radiac wrote:

Seeing it just makes me go "Ugh... there's ALWAYS a canal?!?!" a la that episode of the Simpsons with Nightboat, the crime solving boat.

Or a fjord!

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DCUO is the worst superhero

DCUO is the worst superhero game of all time. I would rather play Marvel puzzle quest, but man they had some nice hand to hand weapons.

What would have been awesome if the player could fire fire powers from the lion's mouth

As a child, I thought my name was handsome, cause that is what everyone called me.

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Phararri wrote:
Phararri wrote:

DCUO is the worst superhero game of all time. I would rather play Marvel puzzle quest, but man they had some nice hand to hand weapons.
What would have been awesome if the player could fire fire powers from the lion's mouth

Makes me think of Voltron. #GoLion

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Radiac wrote:
Radiac wrote:

I did state it was just my opinion. I think the CoT devs are actually planning on doing Swinging (was it mentioned on the Kickstarter? I forget now...). I just personally wouldn't, that's all. Spider-man and Batman aren't using some form of magic when they swing on their various swinglines, they're supposedly using some kind of rope or polymer extrusion to anchor to a building and then swing like a pendulum from there. It works in comics and cartoons mostly because you have the freedom to put the necessary building off camera somewhere and just brush the realism aside. In an MMO you don't have that level of control. Even if the swinger is using 1st person PoV, those of us in the area will see the swingling attaching to thin air and have to try not to laugh at the ridiculousness of it all. In the comics they're attaching those lines to real, solid buildings, at least in theory. And they always START on the roof of some building or another first. I like wallcrawling. I don't have a problem with that. But allowing the use of swinging in places when swinging CLEARLY won't help you just harshes my suspension of disbelief way too much.
Seeing it just makes me go "Ugh... there's ALWAYS a canal?!?!" a la that episode of the Simpsons with Nightboat, the crime solving boat.

In video games starring Spider-Man, especially open world ones, you could just hold a button and swing in place, and we still have to consider something very important that's basic for game theory... playability before realism.

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Playability, in the general

Playability, in the general sense, does not demand a Swinging power to exist at all in the game in the first place, in my opinion. Case in point, CoX was very playable, and it had no such power.

If you're going to do Swinging and you have to make it a "works everywhere" power, then you have to have this level of totally ridiculous lack of realism, that I grant, but to me that's a reason not to bother doing it at all.

But again, I speak only for myself and what I would do if I were making those decisions, which I am not.

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Radiac wrote:
Radiac wrote:

Playability, in the general sense, does not demand a Swinging power to exist at all in the game in the first place, in my opinion. Case in point, CoX was very playable, and it had no such power.
If you're going to do Swinging and you have to make it a "works everywhere" power, then you have to have this level of totally ridiculous lack of realism, that I grant, but to me that's a reason not to bother doing it at all.
But again, I speak only for myself and what I would do if I were making those decisions, which I am not.

People want a swinging power and it was promised in one of the kickstarter's stretch goals. Also? More ridiculous than using a mind control power on a robot? I think not!!! (p.s. I don't know if you think I am getting angry or not, but I'm just giving you heads up that I am not trying to be aggressive with you, arguing just tends to help the devs more since it can help them get more of an idea what everyone wants aslong as there's no name calling involved)

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also we should keep on

also we should keep on suggesting power animations while we argue so as to not completely engulf this thread in the argument. Let's see... ah!! Steam for burning powers!! I plan on making a lot of steampunks yo

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notears wrote:
notears wrote:

Dude... this is a superhero game... the superhero genre is well known for being outlandish and fantastical, and there's already a superhero who can swing around as a go anywhere power!! Namely Spider-Man!!! It's his go to travel power!!

More ridiculous than using a mind control power on a robot?

I realize the excuse that "CoT is a superhero game so nigh-anything should be possible" goes a very, very long way to explain -almost- anything you'd want. If a person worked real hard on it I'll bet they could even come up with a super-cool rationalization for why "using a mind control power on a robot" would be plausible in such a game.

But in this case I'm going to have to share with Radiac my general "distaste" for the idea of a swinging power that could be used ANYWHERE. Yes, yes even I agreed earlier that you could just "pretend" you're using a magic rope that makes that possible but are we supposed to blindly accept that EVERYONE who swings is doing so with a conveniently handy magic rope?

As a compromise I won't go so far as to say that "swinging with ropes that don't need anchor points" should NOT be a part of CoT. All I can do as an individual player is tell you I would likely NEVER use such a power for one of my characters simply because it steps a tiny bit too far beyond my general suspension of disbelief. Just because I think it's silly doesn't mean it shouldn't be in the game - if that were the metric MWM used to decide what to put into the game maybe half the things we would end up with would be very, very different. ;)

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Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:

notears wrote:
Dude... this is a superhero game... the superhero genre is well known for being outlandish and fantastical, and there's already a superhero who can swing around as a go anywhere power!! Namely Spider-Man!!! It's his go to travel power!!
More ridiculous than using a mind control power on a robot?
I realize the excuse that "CoT is a superhero game so nigh-anything should be possible" goes a very, very long way to explain -almost- anything you'd want. If a person worked real hard on it I'll bet they could even come up with a super-cool rationalization for why "using a mind control power on a robot" would be plausible in such a game.
But in this case I'm going to have to share with Radiac my general "distaste" for the idea of a swinging power that could be used ANYWHERE. Yes, yes even I agreed earlier that you could just "pretend" you're using a magic rope that makes that possible but are we supposed to blindly accept that EVERYONE who swings is doing so with a conveniently handy magic rope?

As a compromise I won't go so far as to say that "swinging with ropes that don't need anchor points" should NOT be a part of CoT. All I can do as an individual player is tell you I would likely NEVER use such a power for one of my characters simply because it steps a tiny bit too far beyond my general suspension of disbelief. Just because I think it's silly doesn't mean it shouldn't be in the game - if that were the metric MWM used to decide what to put into the game maybe half the things we would end up with would be very, very different. ;)

Right right... you make some good points there.... what if it's like batman's grappling in the Arkham games? You look up, try to find an anchor point, you hit a button and you swing your way up to it... maybe that?

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notears wrote:
notears wrote:

Right right... you make some good points there.... what if it's like batman's grappling in the Arkham games? You look up, try to find an anchor point, you hit a button and you swing your way up to it... maybe that?

Maybe... the point really is that unless you're in the right environment for it certain "travel powers" are simply not optimal/practical no matter how "super" you are.

Swinging works for characters like Spidy and Bats because most of the time they are in a city setting with tall buildings everywhere. They seriously should not be able to get much use out of those travel abilities in places like the middle of the ocean or the Sahara Desert. I could even conversely argue that Super Speed should not be seriously useable in a city setting because unless you don't mind running THROUGH buildings all the time most city streets have too many turns for you to really get up to speed like you could in an open place like the Bonneville Salt Flats.

Again I would not categorically say "swinging is ALWAYS dumb because SOMETIMES it doesn't make sense". But if CoT allows people to use it anywhere then I will likely choose not to use it as a personal choice. If things like that don't bother you then have fun with it. Nobody said a player must like -everything- a given game provides. :)

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Regarding swinging as a

Regarding swinging as a travel power. I would really like it if actual physics were used.

It would not be a travel power for the faint of heart, and I would expect a lot of people would face plant into the sides of buildings or flinging themselves off into open sky until they really got the trick of it. But that would be its own reward.

Interestingly, there is a game that already uses swinging. I found out about it from my Skyforge guild Vashta Nerada. Probably the best MMO guild I've ever been involved with.

Here it is: The Attack on Titan tribute game.


I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
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Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:

notears wrote:
Right right... you make some good points there.... what if it's like batman's grappling in the Arkham games? You look up, try to find an anchor point, you hit a button and you swing your way up to it... maybe that?
Maybe... the point really is that unless you're in the right environment for it certain "travel powers" are simply not optimal/practical no matter how "super" you are.
Swinging works for characters like Spidy and Bats because most of the time they are in a city setting with tall buildings everywhere. They seriously should not be able to get much use out of those travel abilities in places like the middle of the ocean or the Sahara Desert. I could even conversely argue that Super Speed should not be seriously useable in a city setting because unless you don't mind running THROUGH buildings all the time most city streets have too many turns for you to really get up to speed like you could in an open place like the Bonneville Salt Flats.
Again I would not categorically say "swinging is ALWAYS dumb because SOMETIMES it doesn't make sense". But if CoT allows people to use it anywhere then I will likely choose not to use it as a personal choice. If things like that don't bother you then have fun with it. Nobody said a player must like -everything- a given game provides. :)

Well we could also broaden the term of "anchor point" to include things other than buildings and gargoyles like say, that cliff over there, or that tree branch. At the least we should make all travel powers viable in a city. The games not called FOREST of titans after all ;p Travel powers should atleast be mostly useful if not always useful.

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notears wrote:
notears wrote:

Well we could also broaden the term of "anchor point" to include things other than buildings and gargoyles like say, that cliff over there, or that tree branch. At the least we should make all travel powers viable in a city. The games not called FOREST of titans after all ;p Travel powers should atleast be mostly useful if not always useful.

Sure if the Devs of CoT are clever enough they might make enough "anchor points" out of all sorts of things to expand the amount of space where swinging would be seen as "viable".

Alternatively they might make swinging strictly require anchor points but as a compromise make it super fast or super stealthy as a side benefit. This means that it might not be usable 100% of the time but at least in the places where it was allowed it might be made extra fast or given some other benefit that offsets its restricted use. This would be like if they ever created a "Super Swim" power that let you swim superfast but you could only use it in water.

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You know, if a player thinks

You know, if a player thinks a power like swinging does not work in certain settings they could always choose not to use it in those settings. There is also the idea supplementing swinging by adding a logical functionality in the form of wing suits, deployable glider or some other gadgetry.

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notears wrote:
notears wrote:

In video games starring Spider-Man, especially open world ones, you could just hold a button and swing in place, and we still have to consider something very important that's basic for game theory... playability before realism.

Not necessarily....

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Doctor Tyche wrote:
Doctor Tyche wrote:

notears wrote:
In video games starring Spider-Man, especially open world ones, you could just hold a button and swing in place, and we still have to consider something very important that's basic for game theory... playability before realism.
Not necessarily....

okay okay... free roam spidermanning no matter what silly idea... I have already been convinced it's a silly idea... but can we atleast make it like this?

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Over on the Discuss: What We

Over on the Discuss: What We Can Do -Powers thread I found this:

BiotopeZ wrote:

Another animation that comes to mind is on-foot wing use in melee. This could be an animation overlay for some ground-based movements. This is using wings to lunge, jump back fast, turn quick, etc, while on foot. I'm not planning on making any winged characters, but I always thought winged characters looked like they were wearing cosplay wings when fighting on foot... they just look plastic, when they could still be useful to some extent. The same goes with tail, really. Ever watch a big cat on the hunt, it will swing its tail out in the opposite direction that it turns as a counter-weight to turn faster. Think like that, but with wings.

And this:

Tannim222 wrote:

Certain props will have specific anims such as two-handed weapom attacks, having a weapon and shield, etc. But these are alll independant from the powers themselves.
Now, whether thatt will end up being done with other costume parts, suck as wings - depends on vertain factors including how the rigs of the wings are set up. Also if there are compounded issues with wings moving as described and other props in hand. As it is, those issues don't exist with wings and props or caps and props.
It is definitely more of an exploratory issue for much later down the line.

I'd like suggest, not just incorporating wings and tails into melee animations, but treating them as potential melee weapons. Especially tails. If I have a thagomizer on my tail, I want to be able to treat the bad guys like the late Thag Simmons.

Looking at the last line of Tannim222's quoted above, that likely applies to this as well, if not more so. But I think it should be on the list of stuff to explore down the line.

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Brainbot wrote:
Brainbot wrote:

You know, if a player thinks a power like swinging does not work in certain settings they could always choose not to use it in those settings. There is also the idea supplementing swinging by adding a logical functionality in the form of wing suits, deployable glider or some other gadgetry.

that's actually a good point... maybe swinging isn't just about swinging... maybe it could also be about gliding... again kind of like the batman Arkham games...

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notears wrote:
notears wrote:

Brainbot wrote:
You know, if a player thinks a power like swinging does not work in certain settings they could always choose not to use it in those settings. There is also the idea supplementing swinging by adding a logical functionality in the form of wing suits, deployable glider or some other gadgetry.
that's actually a good point... maybe swinging isn't just about swinging... maybe it could also be about gliding... again kind of like the batman Arkham games...

Obviously some characters who use the Swinging travel power are going to be like Spider-Man (with other built-in powers). But a huge majority of them are probably going to be more like Batman who uses gadgets to swing around. If you can use one gadget (for Swinging) there's no serious reason why you probably wouldn't use other gadgets for gliding/climbing and such. We already know that Batman uses other gadgets to simulate travel powers like the Batmobile to simulate Super Speed and the Batplane to simulate Flight. ;)

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Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:

notears wrote:
Brainbot wrote:
You know, if a player thinks a power like swinging does not work in certain settings they could always choose not to use it in those settings. There is also the idea supplementing swinging by adding a logical functionality in the form of wing suits, deployable glider or some other gadgetry.
that's actually a good point... maybe swinging isn't just about swinging... maybe it could also be about gliding... again kind of like the batman Arkham games...
Obviously some characters who use the Swinging travel power are going to be like Spider-Man (with other built-in powers). But a huge majority of them are probably going to be more like Batman who uses gadgets to swing around. If you can use one gadget (for Swinging) there's no serious reason why you probably wouldn't use other gadgets for gliding/climbing and such.

Hmm... how about you have 2 kinds of powers from the swinging set then? one where you zip up to an anchor point, and one where you attach link to it and swing? That would make you feel like Spider-Man and would be mostly useful!!

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I always assumed that

I always assumed that swinging would include quick line zipping.

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notears wrote:
notears wrote:

Hmm... how about you have 2 kinds of powers from the swinging set then? one where you zip up to an anchor point, and one where you attach link to it and swing? That would make you feel like Spider-Man and would be mostly useful!!

Brainbot wrote:

I always assumed that swinging would include quick line zipping.

At that point it just becomes a question of how the Devs want to implement/animate it. It would likely "make sense" for any version of the Swinging travel power to also include some variation of firing it up from ground level and then "zipping up" to the anchor point. In essence this would be a combined "Swinging/Climbing" power.

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Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:

notears wrote:
Hmm... how about you have 2 kinds of powers from the swinging set then? one where you zip up to an anchor point, and one where you attach link to it and swing? That would make you feel like Spider-Man and would be mostly useful!!
Brainbot wrote:
I always assumed that swinging would include quick line zipping.
At that point it just becomes a question of how the Devs want to implement/animate it. It would likely "make sense" for any version of the Swinging travel power to also include some variation of firing it up from ground level and then "zipping up" to the anchor point. In essence this would be a combined "Swinging/Climbing" power.

That could work too... probably easier for the devs animate too...

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Line zipping does not have to

Line zipping does not have to be vertical. It could just as easily be used horizontal/at an angle to solve the 'no buildings to swing on' problem that some take issue with.

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Brainbot wrote:
Brainbot wrote:

Line zipping does not have to be vertical. It could just as easily be used horizontal/at an angle to solve the 'no buildings to swing on' problem that some take issue with.

Even where such buildings might be miles away? I'm not anti-Swing here - I'm just trying to be a realist where it comes to "reasonable practically". There's no universal law that says every travel power must be universally viable in all situations. *shrugs*

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well they should atleast be

well they should atleast be viable in most situations, or atleast in the zones.

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It's also why a way to swing

It's also why a way to swing by zip lining and by ancoring and swinging on a line makes sense here, I'd imagine a swing as like a travel power that's harder to use correctily but once you find out how you can get a lot of mobility. Eventually you should be able to swing from a beam and then zip line to the top of a building. It should also have a limited range on it, no zip-lining to a bulding on the other side of the map.

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cheetara like melee, from the

cheetara like melee, from the new injustice game

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Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:

Even where such buildings might be miles away? I'm not anti-Swing here - I'm just trying to be a realist where it comes to "reasonable practically". There's no universal law that says every travel power must be universally viable in all situations. *shrugs*

Yes even if you were in an infinite flat terrain you can still shoot the line at the ground a ways in front of your character and either jump as zipping or just slide along the ground. I'm not pro swing here, just showing that the 'problems' people are coming up with are very narrow. There isn't a universal reason they can't make all the travel powers viable in all situations either.

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I want different kinds of

I want different kinds of magical runes to choose from, like Gaelic runes, or Chinese script

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Brainbot wrote:
Brainbot wrote:
Lothic wrote:

Even where such buildings might be miles away? I'm not anti-Swing here - I'm just trying to be a realist where it comes to "reasonable practically". There's no universal law that says every travel power must be universally viable in all situations. *shrugs*

Yes even if you were in an infinite flat terrain you can still shoot the line at the ground a ways in front of your character and either jump as zipping or just slide along the ground. I'm not pro swing here, just showing that the 'problems' people are coming up with are very narrow. There isn't a universal reason they can't make all the travel powers viable in all situations either.

I'll grant you that if you found yourself on "infinitely flat terrain you could shoot a line at the ground a ways in front of your character". But your assumptions that you could then jump up and zip forward without instantly faceplanting in the dirt or that this magical terrain is slippery enough that you could just slide forward is only maybe 0.000001% less stupid than having to accept that swing lines should just be able to be fired into the air randomly and anchor themselves to nothing. The 'problems' people are coming up with are NOT very narrow with respect to swing lines. If the only way you can make swing lines work universally is to dream up a "magically infinite flat terrain" for them to operate on then almost by definition they are NOT universal.

Look I get that people want a Swinging travel power in CoT and there's absolutely NOTHING wrong with that as long as you keep something like that within the realms of sanity, even sanity as it pertains to a superhero based game. As I said before you might be able to explain one character using a magical swing line that can defy gravity but are we going to be forced to accept that ALL swing lines in the world can universally defy the laws of physics? If that's going to be the case then that's going to be awfully silly to say the least.

I just don't get this need to have all travel powers be universally practical and/or usable. If there was a burrowing travel power I wouldn't expect to be able to "burrow" through thin air with it. If there was a motorcycle based travel power I wouldn't expect to be able to zip across the surface of an ocean with it. Yes I get that the "it's a superhero game" can excuse a whole bunch of physics-defying silliness. But at the end of the day there have to be SOME limits to these things or else we'll just have a chaotic mess on our hands.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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This is a stupid argument.

This is a stupid argument. People saying they wanted ropes to have anchor points, which has merit, is now perverted into ropes must follow all real world physics, which has no merit. Not to mention it is unlikely the game will have vast open terrain that lacks ways to use ropes.
With these video I am bowing out of this discussion.

Lothic wrote:

that this magical terrain is slippery enough that you could just slide forward

At about 5 seconds in

at about 1 min 10 seconds in

at 2 min 5 seconds

Lothic wrote:

jump up and zip forward without instantly faceplanting in the dirt

Almost the entire video

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Brainbot wrote:
Brainbot wrote:

This is a stupid argument. People saying they wanted ropes to have anchor points, which has merit, is now perverted into ropes must follow all real world physics, which has no merit. Not to mention it is unlikely the game will have vast open terrain that lacks ways to use ropes.
With these video I am bowing out of this discussion.
Lothic wrote:
that this magical terrain is slippery enough that you could just slide forward
At about 5 seconds in
at about 1 min 10 seconds in
at 2 min 5 seconds
Lothic wrote:
jump up and zip forward without instantly faceplanting in the dirt
Almost the entire video

Yeah at this point it's less "Every swinger having a magic rope is really ridiculous" and more "You can't be a speedster because realistically you would burn to death with the friction burn"

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Brainbot wrote:
Brainbot wrote:

With these video I am bowing out of this discussion.

OMG you usually don't come up with such easily refutable examples...

Spider-Man has SUPERHUMAN strength. He's going to be able to do things with swing lines that no NORMAL human being could do. Let's see Batman (and millions of other swing line users without built-in super powers) do practically ANYTHING that Spider-Man can do with his webs.

In the Just Cause 3 example the guy is clearly using a parachute and some kind of flight wing suit (under his arms) IN COMBINATION with swing lines to keep himself up in the air. Assuming you can swallow the physics of all that if you want CoT to implement its version of swing lines to be pretty much exactly like this example then that'd be fine. My guess though is that CoT is not going to be forcing every swing line user to have a multi-combo of all that other tech.

If you want to try to justify why using swing lines in either ridiculous ways (no anchor points) or nigh-impossible ways (requiring magically flat/slippery terrains or other combinations of super powers / tech to make it work) is viable then at least come up with some more reasonably credible examples than this.

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Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:

Brainbot wrote:
Lothic wrote:
Even where such buildings might be miles away? I'm not anti-Swing here - I'm just trying to be a realist where it comes to "reasonable practically". There's no universal law that says every travel power must be universally viable in all situations. *shrugs*
Yes even if you were in an infinite flat terrain you can still shoot the line at the ground a ways in front of your character and either jump as zipping or just slide along the ground. I'm not pro swing here, just showing that the 'problems' people are coming up with are very narrow. There isn't a universal reason they can't make all the travel powers viable in all situations either.
I'll grant you that if you found yourself on "infinitely flat terrain you could shoot a line at the ground a ways in front of your character". But your assumptions that you could then jump up and zip forward without instantly faceplanting in the dirt or that this magical terrain is slippery enough that you could just slide forward is only maybe 0.000001% less stupid than having to accept that swing lines should just be able to be fired into the air randomly and anchor themselves to nothing. The 'problems' people are coming up with are NOT very narrow with respect to swing lines. If the only way you can make swing lines work universally is to dream up a "magically infinite flat terrain" for them to operate on then almost by definition they are NOT universal.
Look I get that people want a Swinging travel power in CoT and there's absolutely NOTHING wrong with that as long as you keep something like that within the realms of sanity, even sanity as it pertains to a superhero based game. As I said before you might be able to explain one character using a magical swing line that can defy gravity but are we going to be forced to accept that ALL swing lines in the world can universally defy the laws of physics? If that's going to be the case then that's going to be awfully silly to say the least.
I just don't get this need to have all travel powers be universally practical and/or usable. If there was a burrowing travel power I wouldn't expect to be able to "burrow" through thin air with it. If there was a motorcycle based travel power I wouldn't expect to be able to zip across the surface of an ocean with it. Yes I get that the "it's a superhero game" can excuse a whole bunch of physics-defying silliness. But at the end of the day there have to be SOME limits to these things or else we'll just have a chaotic mess on our hands.

I get what you're saying Lothic.

However, I think the point is this.

If you do it the way you say, which is totally how it would work, in say a comic book and a non MMO game. It'd be one thing.

However, in the MMO world. We'd start seeing people just taking the super powers that worked best.

Didn't make sense to super jump off of water in CoH, people still took it.

If you put restrictions like you want on the travel powers, then people will start pulling away from their use. Can't swing line in the desert, so everyone is complaining about how that player is being slow getting to missions, or the player is just annoyed at being slow getting to the missions. Not to mention PvP zones without high structures to use for them.

In the comics, Spidey has to find other ways to use his swing lines, or just walk (when the artist/writer don't fub it anyways). In MMO, I think we'd start seeing people just skipping the powers.

Unless, CoT just ignores the idea of deserts, jungles, artic wastelands, the moon and stick strictly to a city setting.

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Brand X wrote:
Brand X wrote:

If you put restrictions like you want on the travel powers, then people will start pulling away from their use. Can't swing line in the desert, so everyone is complaining about how that player is being slow getting to missions, or the player is just annoyed at being slow getting to the missions. Not to mention PvP zones without high structures to use for them.

If the Devs decide to make every single travel power they provide be UNIVERSALLY usable just because they don't want some players to shy away from using some of them over others then I suppose we'll all have to live with that silliness. If that applies to some kind of Swinging travel power I'll likely declare that to be "stupid" and I'll never use it on one of my characters. Now if that kind of thing would not bother YOU then more power to you and I wish you all the joy in the world using such a travel power.

But just imagine if my vocal position on this particular topic forces the CoT Devs to at least think about it and maybe gets them to combine their universal swing line with some other tech (like the wing suit) that will at least PARTIALLY explain why a swing line could be used anywhere then I consider what I'm doing here as a useful service for my fellow player. Constructive criticism is a good thing.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:

Brand X wrote:
If you put restrictions like you want on the travel powers, then people will start pulling away from their use. Can't swing line in the desert, so everyone is complaining about how that player is being slow getting to missions, or the player is just annoyed at being slow getting to the missions. Not to mention PvP zones without high structures to use for them.
If the Devs decide to make every single travel power they provide be UNIVERSALLY usable just because they don't want some players to shy away from using some of them over others then I suppose we'll all have to live with that silliness. If that applies to some kind of Swinging travel power I'll likely declare that to be "stupid" and I'll never use it on one of my characters. Now if that kind of thing would not bother YOU then more power to you and I wish you all the joy in the world using such a travel power.
But just imagine if my vocal position on this particular topic forces the CoT Devs to at least think about it and maybe gets them to combine their universal swing line with some other tech (like the wing suit) that will at least PARTIALLY explain why a swing line could be used anywhere then I consider what I'm doing here as a useful service for my fellow player. Constructive criticism is a good thing.

As someone who uses a swing line in CO, it still totally bothers me. :p But I realize sometimes you just have to make do. DCUO's swing line feels a bit better, as it looks to need anchor points to use, but then it doesn't feel like you're swinging around like Spider-Man.

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I remember reading a book or

I remember reading a book or watching some show, I think it was Criminal Minds but don't know because the plot was pretty silly. In that book or show a guy sets off a bunch of bombs to get people to increase national security. When he got caught he was so sure he was acting heroically.

For some reason that bad guys dumb rationale just came to mind.

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Brainbot wrote:
Brainbot wrote:

I remember reading a book or watching some show, I think it was Criminal Minds but don't know because the plot was pretty silly. In that book or show a guy sets off a bunch of bombs to get people to increase national security. When he got caught he was so sure he was acting heroically.
For some reason that bad guys dumb rationale just came to mind.

It's been the basis for a few shows.

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notears wrote:
notears wrote:

I want different kinds of magical runes to choose from, like Gaelic runes, or Chinese script

I'd love to just pull in Unicode.

Has anyone seen my mind? It was right here...

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Alright so, I'd just love

Alright so, I'd just love clone heavy animations, like not even just for pets like, for example an attack where I temporarily create 2 clones of myself and we all punch a guy at the same time before they disappear, or I create a clone behind a guy and then I just tabletop my enemy, or a ranged attack where I make a guy right next to my target and he back hands him and then disappears, or a possible control animation where I make a guy and he grabs my target from behind

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I'd like a hand morph

I'd like a hand morph animation. Basically your hand morphs into a simple blade, mace, hammer, ect when you use a melee attack. Although it could also be pretty cool to have your hand morph into some sort of energy/plasma cannon for ranged attacks, too.

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So I was thinking earlier

So I was thinking earlier that it would be cool to have a geometry blast. Your character shoots out a riot of 2d or 3d simple geometric forms. Could be interesting for making a cool particle man or triangle man concept. (que music)

The devs have stated that you can take multiple travel powers if you like. So in the city you could use your swinging power and then take SS or SJ for when you couldn't use swing. It's very clear in that first spiderman clip that he's got swing and SJ at least.

(at)Roxanna - Little Sister - Plutonium Bloom - MilkShakes
Triumph
Guardian
Virtue

Dev Tracker: http://cityoftitans.com/forum/fixing-dev-digest
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zyric wrote:
zyric wrote:

I'd like a hand morph animation. Basically your hand morphs into a simple blade, mace, hammer, ect when you use a melee attack. Although it could also be pretty cool to have your hand morph into some sort of energy/plasma cannon for ranged attacks, too.

^This.

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[youtube]https://www.youtube

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TB5TfEj2KL8[/youtube] all of dis

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Notears, for a YT link you

Notears, for a YT link you only want to put the part after the V= in the address, fyi.

(insert pithy comment here)

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We need special animation so

We need special animation so Scorpion can have robot scorpions...

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Animation/travel power where

Animation/travel power where you turn into liquid ie secret world of alex mack, terminator

partially joking, but maybe might be cool?

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I want to dual wield shields

I want to dual wield shields

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notears wrote:
notears wrote:

I want to dual wield shields

Has anyone seen my mind? It was right here...

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Lin Chiao Feng wrote:
Lin Chiao Feng wrote:

notears wrote:
I want to dual wield shields

......that too........

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Hey devs... I'll let you in

Hey devs... I'll let you in on a little secret.... sword gun....

http://i46.tinypic.com/s6ov12.jpg

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everything in these
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also everything in this video

also everything in this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yn8ZqX82neg

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https://www.youtube.com/watch
notears
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I want a weapon that could

I want a weapon that could look possible with two different sets of animations like this http://www.meleemods.com/uploads/2/4/9/3/24938776/s665054698736465094_p17_i6_w2560.jpeg if it's only one type of animation for a prop you could probably make it the same prop for 2 different weapon animations

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like for example make that

like for example make that shotgun axe weapon I showed you a shotgun model and an axe model

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Someone loves their Agents of

Someone loves their Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. :)

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never seen it.... is there a

never seen it.... is there a shotgun axe on there? Is agents of S.H.I.E.L.D good? Because I want to watch it just for the shotgun axe!!!

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notears wrote:
notears wrote:

never seen it.... is there a shotgun axe on there? Is agents of S.H.I.E.L.D good? Because I want to watch it just for the shotgun axe!!!

Every season of AoS is better than the last. Season 1 needed work. Has some good episodes, about the last half it starts to improve.

And yes, in season 2 or 3 (forget which) the creation of the Shotgun Axe is made and still used!

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Brand X wrote:
Brand X wrote:

notears wrote:
never seen it.... is there a shotgun axe on there? Is agents of S.H.I.E.L.D good? Because I want to watch it just for the shotgun axe!!!
Every season of AoS is better than the last. Season 1 needed work. Has some good episodes, about the last half it starts to improve.
And yes, in season 2 or 3 (forget which) the creation of the Shotgun Axe is made and still used!

.....I should watch agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.....

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Brand X wrote:
Brand X wrote:

notears wrote:
never seen it.... is there a shotgun axe on there? Is agents of S.H.I.E.L.D good? Because I want to watch it just for the shotgun axe!!!
Every season of AoS is better than the last. Season 1 needed work. Has some good episodes, about the last half it starts to improve.
And yes, in season 2 or 3 (forget which) the creation of the Shotgun Axe is made and still used!

Yeah - season 1 was really hampered by the fact it aired around the same time that Captain America: Winter Soldier released (and if you have seen that movie you get an idea of how that might have affected the TV show). The first half of the 1st season is basically in a holding pattern. The second half is when it starts to get interesting, and like you say, the subsequent seasons get better as they go.

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Interdictor wrote:
Interdictor wrote:

Brand X wrote:
notears wrote:
never seen it.... is there a shotgun axe on there? Is agents of S.H.I.E.L.D good? Because I want to watch it just for the shotgun axe!!!
Every season of AoS is better than the last. Season 1 needed work. Has some good episodes, about the last half it starts to improve.
And yes, in season 2 or 3 (forget which) the creation of the Shotgun Axe is made and still used!
Yeah - season 1 was really hampered by the fact it aired around the same time that Captain America: Winter Soldier released (and if you have seen that movie you get an idea of how that might have affected the TV show). The first half of the 1st season is basically in a holding pattern. The second half is when it starts to get interesting, and like you say, the subsequent seasons get better as they go.

Especially this last season with Ghost Rider and the LMDs! Best Ghost Rider ever to hit the screens!

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About travel powers I have an

About travel powers I have an idea.

Let's start with Spiderman. Many of you seem to forget that Spiderman doesn't have swinging only, nor the sole addition of gliding or wall-crawling. He also has super agility, super jumping and super speed.

He is not Flash nor the Hulk, still he is able to run faster than a car, to jump on roofs and run on walls and create a combination of all these. Let's summarize again the travel powers of Spiderman (= all the powers that affect his travels):
1) Swinging
2) Gliding with the web-wings under the arms
3) Wall-crawling
4) Superspeed = superswim
5) Superjump (derivates from the strength, he can leap little houses with one jump)
6) Superagility

All these powers make him travel pretty fast anywhere. I may be older but you should remember Spiderman jumping entire trees when lost in jungles/forests without the web (finished) or swimming at superspeed (leaving behind the effect of a motorboat in the water). By combining so many super powers he was able to move around in any situation.

Now how do you create such a rich "travel combo" in a mmorpg like City of Heroes/DUCO/Champions etc.?
All the superhero-mmorpgs made this slightly wrong till now, imho. Even the ones that combine swing+glide+wallcrawler+acrobatic in a single travel power (that's a decent choice if you want to simplify, good for Spiderman and Batman kind of characters, since both are able to climb walls for different reasons and use a rope or glide and have some sort of agility even if on different levels human/superhuman).

The perfect way to put travel powers in this kind of game, so open to player's freedom, is to create a simplified cost system just for that, nothing too complicate.

Let's say you have maximum 5 travel points available. The costs should reflect the possibility of that travel power and level to operate on various zones, Fly for example must cost more since it's so versatile, if you select the last level of it (the super fast "sonic boom" fly) you should be limited to that only with a cost of 5 (the maximum).

You will be forced to choose between various levels of fly/jump/speed/etc., for example:

Fly level 1 = hovering/levitate = cost 1
Fly level 2 = fly at medium speed = cost 3
Fly level 3 = supersonic fly = cost 5

Superspeed level 1 (Spiderman level) = cost 2
Superspeed level 2 (Flash level, slightly faster than Fly level 3 and adds the possibility to run on walls and water) = cost 4

Superjump level 1 (Spiderman level) = cost 2
Superjump level 2 (Hulk level)= cost 4

Agility/acrobatic = cost 1
Glide = cost 1
Teleport = cost 4 (it can go anywhere like Fly, but it's slower than the last level of fly which costs 5 and cannot stand in the air for long)

Vehicles level 1 (motorcycle, Cap America for example) = cost 2
Vehicles level 2 (car + plane) = cost 3 (the plane is super sonic like Fly level 3, but the player cannot fight in the vehicles and it takes time to enter those, therefore the low cost)

Now let's try to create some heroes:
Nova = Fly level 3 = supersonic fly = cost 5
Superman = Fly level 3 (cost 5) or Superspeed level 2 (cost 4) + Fly level 1 (cost 1) or Speed 1 and Fly 2
Spiderman = Swing + wall-crawling + glide + jump 1 (cost 2)
Batman = acrobatic 1 + swing 1 + vehicles 2 (cost 3)
Doc Strange = Fly 1 (hovering/levitate very slowly) + teleport (cost 4)
Flash = Superspeed level 2 (cost 4) + Acrobatic (cost 1)
Aquaman = Superspeed level 1 (in water it's superswim of course, level 1 because the 2 gifts you the walking ON water, which is not the case, cost 2)
Cap America & Ghost rider = Vehicles level 1 (motorcycle, cost 2) + Acrobatic (cost 1)

What if my hero doesn't travel that fast or doesn't have a combo so rich of travel powers, if I want to limit it for role-play purposes? Like the last example of Cap America or Ghost rider which don't reach the 5 points? I'd give the player the possibility to improve their travel power with the remaining points, but slightly improve it by putting a little "plus" in mobility (therefore in a character similar to Ghost rider I'd put the little bonuses to the speed of the motorcycle, while in Cap-America-like I'd put some more mobility in the Acrobatic part). For Aquaman I'd put all the bonuses on Superspeed level 1, it would still be slightly worse than Superspeed level 2 but will imitate a very fast superswim in water and running on roads.

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ThunderCAP wrote:
ThunderCAP wrote:

About travel powers I have an idea.
Let's start with Spiderman. Many of you seem to forget that Spiderman doesn't have swinging only, nor the sole addition of gliding or wall-crawling. He also has super agility, super jumping and super speed.
He is not Flash nor the Hulk, still he is able to run faster than a car, to jump on roofs and run on walls and create a combination of all these. Let's summarize again the travel powers of Spiderman (= all the powers that affect his travels):
1) Swinging
2) Gliding with the web-wings under the arms
3) Wall-crawling
4) Superspeed = superswim
5) Superjump (derivates from the strength, he can leap little houses with one jump)
6) Superagility
All these powers make him travel pretty fast anywhere. I may be older but you should remember Spiderman jumping entire trees when lost in jungles/forests without the web (finished) or swimming at superspeed (leaving behind the effect of a motorboat in the water). By combining so many super powers he was able to move around in any situation.
Now how do you create such a rich "travel combo" in a mmorpg like City of Heroes/DUCO/Champions etc.?
All the superhero-mmorpgs made this slightly wrong till now, imho. Even the ones that combine swing+glide+wallcrawler+acrobatic in a single travel power (that's a decent choice if you want to simplify, good for Spiderman and Batman kind of characters, since both are able to climb walls for different reasons and use a rope or glide and have some sort of agility even if on different levels human/superhuman).
The perfect way to put travel powers in this kind of game, so open to player's freedom, is to create a simplified cost system just for that, nothing too complicate.
Let's say you have maximum 5 travel points available. The costs should reflect the possibility of that travel power and level to operate on various zones, Fly for example must cost more since it's so versatile, if you select the last level of it (the super fast "sonic boom" fly) you should be limited to that only with a cost of 5 (the maximum).
You will be forced to choose between various levels of fly/jump/speed/etc., for example:
Fly level 1 = hovering/levitate = cost 1
Fly level 2 = fly at medium speed = cost 3
Fly level 3 = supersonic fly = cost 5
Superspeed level 1 (Spiderman level) = cost 2
Superspeed level 2 (Flash level, slightly faster than Fly level 3 and adds the possibility to run on walls and water) = cost 4
Superjump level 1 (Spiderman level) = cost 2
Superjump level 2 (Hulk level)= cost 4
Agility/acrobatic = cost 1
Glide = cost 1
Teleport = cost 4 (it can go anywhere like Fly, but it's slower than the last level of fly which costs 5 and cannot stand in the air for long)
Vehicles level 1 (motorcycle, Cap America for example) = cost 2
Vehicles level 2 (car + plane) = cost 3 (the plane is super sonic like Fly level 3, but the player cannot fight in the vehicles and it takes time to enter those, therefore the low cost)
Now let's try to create some heroes:
Nova = Fly level 3 = supersonic fly = cost 5
Superman = Fly level 3 (cost 5) or Superspeed level 2 (cost 4) + Fly level 1 (cost 1) or Speed 1 and Fly 2
Spiderman = Swing + wall-crawling + glide + jump 1 (cost 2)
Batman = acrobatic 1 + swing 1 + vehicles 2 (cost 3)
Doc Strange = Fly 1 (hovering/levitate very slowly) + teleport (cost 4)
Flash = Superspeed level 2 (cost 4) + Acrobatic (cost 1)
Cap America & Ghost rider = Vehicles level 1 (motorcycle, cost 2) + Acrobatic (cost 1)
What if my hero doesn't travel that fast or doesn't have a combo so rich of travel powers, if I want to limit it for role-play purposes? Like the last example of Cap America or Ghost rider which don't reach the 5 points? I'd give the player the possibility to improve their travel power with the remaining points, but slightly improve it by putting a little "plus" in mobility (therefore in a character similar to Ghost rider I'd put the little bonuses to the speed of the motorcycle, while in Cap-America-like I'd put some more mobility in the Acrobatic part).

I've heard that the travel powers system was going to be separate from the leveling system.... also? This should really be it's own thread cause this is like just how the powers look thread, not their mechanics

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Yes - Travel powers are going

Yes - Travel powers are going to be separate from the regular power selections. You can select multiple powers, or focus on one to it's fullest potential.

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I'd like a dismissive finger

I'd like a dismissive finger snap as a power animation. It'd go well with a nuke power. Casually snap fingers, everyone explodes. As demonstrated by Shiva here.

Ideally, the snap itself should be the emanation point, with the option to leave a trail from snap to target or not. So you could snap your fingers with a tiny spark before a huge lightning bolt smites your foes.

It could also work for defensive powers to turn on, like a fire shield, or even as a costume change. It's a very versatile animation.

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McNum wrote:
McNum wrote:

I'd like a dismissive finger snap as a power animation. It'd go well with a nuke power. Casually snap fingers, everyone explodes.
Ideally, the snap itself should be the emanation point, with the option to leave a trail from snap to target or not. So you could snap your fingers with a tiny spark before a huge lightning bolt smites your foes.
It could also work for defensive powers to turn on, like a fire shield, or even as a costume change. It's a very versatile animation.

I agree that a "finger snap" would be a cool power animation option.

Whenever I think of "finger snaps" to invoke powers I always think of Q from ST-TNG:

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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The Fonz did it best.

The Fonz did it best.

(insert pithy comment here)

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Just a suggestion. Shouldn't

Just a suggestion. Shouldn't take two much time. A prop for defense: Green Lantern style shields...really just a colored aura around the body. There is no real animation to it. just a colored border.

the animation comes from the ranged attacks, a giant Fist at the end of a ray from your hand/or ring if you want to be daring... a Giant Hammer. an anvil. a big green truck. entrapment in a big green bubble.

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there has been talk of a ray attack from an orbiting satellite...that is cool, how about a giant disembodied hand, falling from heaven, smashing your enemies in an area attack. That would be good for a clerical character, the frightful fist of fate.
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imagine a robot character with ranged attacks. his arm extends the length of the ray and punches the target. there is no bendy twisty to the arm, just replace the straight ray with an extendable arm. hit the target and it snaps right back

alternatively, you could fire a fist at the enemy
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ranged attacks could be a round disk the size of a round shield, Captain America throwing his shield and it always comes right back. In reality it just his the target and reappears on his arm.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ranged attacks could be thrown objects like boomerangs, small discs, baseballs, etc. one animation covers different props.
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spears as ranged attacks or melee attacks

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SHOTGUN NUNCHUCKShttp://40
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+1 to that finger snap, just

+1 to that finger snap, just such an awesome "i'm an overpowered mess and I know it" move :)

+1 on spears/javelins AND the weapon elementization I mentioned earlier. Fire spears, ice javelins...Soul Arrows \[T]/

Here's an idea, and I might make a thread to itself. Customizable weapons. Make bits and peices of swords, spears, armor, etc. Then be able to assemble it into a unique weapon

"A delayed game is eventually good, but a rushed game is forever bad"

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*takes all the weapons away

*takes all the weapons away from notears*

This is just not safe.You are going to hurt yourself or someone else.

I don't know that a lot of these are animations but props that would be tied to a set of animations. So all your -chuks would use the "Nun-chucka" animation set.

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"You brought the nuuuunchucks

"You brought the noooonchucks!" -Blankman

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Grimfox wrote:
Grimfox wrote:

*takes all the weapons away from notears*
This is just not safe.You are going to hurt yourself or someone else.
I don't know that a lot of these are animations but props that would be tied to a set of animations. So all your -chuks would use the "Nun-chucka" animation set.

but,,,but.... nunchucks :[...

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Some chucks is better than

Some chucks is better than nunchucks.

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Woodchucks?

Woodchucks?

Be Well!
Fireheart

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Fireheart wrote:
Fireheart wrote:

Woodchucks?
Be Well!
Fireheart

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shield tossing like Wonder

shield tossing like Wonder Woman and Captain America

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minions as attack animations,

minions as attack animations, like maybe a necromancer could wave his hands around, and a skeleton could come out of a portal hit his target with a sword before turning into bones, or a zombie could lunge up from the ground and start grappling with his target as a hold, things like that.

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notears wrote:
notears wrote:

minions as attack animations, like maybe a necromancer could wave his hands around, and a skeleton could come out of a portal hit his target with a sword before turning into bones, or a zombie could lunge up from the ground and start grappling with his target as a hold, things like that.

MKX's Kenshi had some cool moves where he'd summon a demon for a couple swipes, then it'd disappear.

"A delayed game is eventually good, but a rushed game is forever bad"

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Juggling battle stance for

Juggling battle stance for thrown weapon users where as soon as you're in combat you start juggling your projectiles.

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Guns as melee weapons, I want

Guns as melee weapons, I want gun fu like a matrix character

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