What made CoH so fricking FUN?

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Empyrean
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What made CoH so fricking FUN?

I just logged off Secret World and realized I was grinding towards a build, but I wasn't, at least mostly, having fun.

After CoH I went to Champions, and, while there is a lot that's messed up about that game, I had at least some moments of real fun. Cryptic gets some things right.

Then, when I realized it was alt-or-nothing at endgame, and that my mains that I loved had nothing fun to do, I eventually tired of alting and moved to TSW. But I just needed my tights and cape and TRAVEL POWER!

So, I went to DCUO and that gave me my fix, but, while there were a few fun moments, it turned into Champions. My mains were all dressed up with no place to go and constant alting got old.

So, I went back to Secret world.

I WANTED to like Champions because it was Superheroes, but it wasn't consistently fun like CoH. Then I wanted to like Secret World because it is such a great story and atmosphere--but it's not a very fun game to actually play. And I wanted to like DCUO for the same reasons I wanted to like Champions.

Warcabbit has stated that the overriding goal of CoT is for the game to be FUN to play, That makes me very hopeful. One concern I have is that it's also been stated that the Endgame will BE alting. I love alting, but I also love having fun with my mature, developed heroes, and I need to be able to do that.

But, the main point is, whether it was alting or taking my mains out for a night on the town or fiddling on Mids or doing a PUG, I was almost always having FUN!

Is it just in my head or am I idealizing the past? Rose-colored hind-sight? I don't think so. I don't ever remember feeling like this with CoH. Not after 8 years.

Part of it for me was a feeling of real POWER in the animations and actual capabilities of your Hero in CoH. You were just a bad-ass.

The other was the game made things EASY, not hard just for it's own sake. Yes, there were challenges, but it was easy to solo and easy to team and easy to earn inf and craft and easy to learn how to build, etc. And you could always PvP or make a GM or AV soloer or go for Master runs if you wanted a brick wall to bang your head against (which is fun from time to time). But the game itself wasn't a brick wall.

Maybe the philosophy in gaming now is to use difficulty rather than fun as a time sink? I think fun is the best time sink. BOY did I sink time into CoH--and never regretted it.

So, what thing or constellation of things made CoH so fun for you that you are here on these forms waiting for a spiritual successor long after the game itself is gone?

I mean, seriously, would you do this for any other game?

PS- On second thought (and after a deep breath) I did spend absolutely HOURS dinkering with my look and the look of my powers. So, customization, of course, was huge.

But, then, there was actually fun stuff to go out and do with my oh-so-perfectly tailored look and powers.

FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)

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Three things come to mind

Three things come to mind which made CoX fun:

1. Base Making: The amount of power one had to create an area to their desire was amazing. You were only limited by your creativity and the 3,000 object limit per SG base
2. Pre i12 PvP: It was fast pace, needed lots of coordination and everyone one the 8 man team had a specific role to do. You fail to do your role, the other team will win.
3. Grinding: This may seem like a surprise, but just how the itemzation of this game where nothing is bound and you can transfer IO from one character to another was great. Grinding also provided you prestige for base building so it was almost like you had to work to make your base look good.

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I had the most fun just

I had the most fun just coming up with character concepts and then realizing them. I don't think we have anything to worry about here.

Beyond that, I liked that there were different things to do depending on my mood. I could run missions solo if I didn't have a lot of time (or just wasn't in the mood for people that night). If I was feeling sociable, teaming was very easy, and I rarely had a horrible time with Pugs. The pace of the combat was just right; quick enough to not feel tedious, but slow enough to allow for some banter with teammates. There was always browsing the tailor to check out a new look. Badging. Base building. Mission Architect. I also had a blast just hanging out in Atlas and the Hollows on lowbie patrol, tossing off random heals or speed boosts or answering questions.

"Fun" is highly subjective, though. Things that I find fun bore a lot of people to tears and vice versa.

Having different ways to play and different things to do, I think, is the key to making the game fun by giving players more options so they don't get bored. At the same time catering to a broader number of people's definition of "fun".

I'm sure it's tricky having to decide what is the minimum needed to have at launch and what can wait and how long it will take to roll out extra systems and content.
I wasn't in CoH at launch so I don't know what steps it took to mature to where it was shortly after CoV went live.

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For me, there was just a

For me, there was just a certain visceral feel to the powers, sound and combat that I just can't find anywhere else. One thing mentioned by WarCabbit is also the 'weight' City of Heroes had and I'm glad he wants to replicate that feel in CoT as much as possible. Ironically but not coincidental, Neverwinter Online comes closest to that feeling more than Champions Online for me since all 3 games used some variation of the same game engine.

I like how different all the classes played and contributed to team combat as opposed to a game like Guild Wars 2 where my class never really felt like it had a specific role to play. Some people don't want to be relegated to meat shield or healer but I didn't mind the way it worked in CoH. Being a bubbler or rad defender could be great if the particular group was not hung up on "need empath healerz". It was rare but did happen.

Soooo many combos to try.

Masterminds - can't find the equivalent anywhere else. Some lame facsimile, sure, but an equal no way.

Controllers - again, can't find the equivalent anywhere else. Pretty much any MMO I've played that has a similar class(e.g. Control Wizard in Neverwinter) is so watered down in comparison as to make the word 'control' a huge joke. 2 seconds is not a hold and further insulting me with upgrades that give .10 to .5 extra seconds of sleep, hold or stun is insulting. I'm not a computer so can't notice such an upgrade and I refuse to play with a stopwatch to know my character is 'better'.

Hoarding enhancements, influence and salvage. lol

Making bases.

New powersets that got better each year. Damn, I miss Water Blast and was sooo looking forward to Wind Control. If you had watched some of the community talks with Zwillinger, Arbiter Hawk had mentioned they had figured out how to reverse the repel feature of powers. I don't know about you but I remember plenty of people that wished Tornado could suck enemies instead of repelling and it looks like it would have eventually happened in some future power.

Fighting LARGE mobs and winning. None of the MMOs I've played over the past year and half let me take on 17 foes at once. Not every AT could do it or had the right combo to do it with little risk and that was fine with me. I don't want everyone to be a watered down version that is jack of all trades, master of none.* I hope CoT keeps this in some form but can we get a round number like 20(OCD kicking in like when I had to constantly rearrange Inspirations) or even more awesome, increase it? Of course, the limit where you can handle so many foes would be at the final levels of power.

I can't talk this much about any other game.

*refer back to team combat and roles comment

Reward tactics as well as damage dealing.

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SavageFist wrote:
SavageFist wrote:

... I had to constantly rearrange Inspirations) or even more awesome, increase it?

40 should have been enough...
and the Inspirations tray should have been ReSizable, so it can fit a more Horizontal or Vertical layout. :/

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Izzy wrote:
Izzy wrote:

SavageFist wrote:
... I had to constantly rearrange Inspirations) or even more awesome, increase it?
40 should have been enough...
and the Inspirations tray should have been ReSizable, so it can fit a more Horizontal or Vertical layout. :/

Sorry if it was unclear. Lots of thoughts running around. The increase was in reference to aggro limit.

But yeah, I miss Inspirations too. I don't like the way CO does them and I'm not as fond of temporary boosts in other games either. Probably the ease of access compared to other games where you may have to open an inventory screen or can only hotkey a couple potions at a time. Yet another plus for CoH.

Reward tactics as well as damage dealing.

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Lots of great memories from

Lots of great memories from so many players which I'm sure puts pressure on developing city of titans and trying to please COH vets who played over the years which is why things have to be slowly developed but just seeing what was released so far the game looks great and I'm sure more is yet to come .

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My mind also Wanders.. but I

My mind also Wanders.. but I think about the Interface Editor.. if there will be one?!?

ex:

Maybe we wont Need an Interface Editor if each UI elements has a small drag-gable Menubar. ;)

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I agree, Empyrean -- every

I agree, Empyrean -- every other MMO I've tried has ended up feeling more like work than fun, which is why I've given up trying any other MMOs till CoT comes out. (With the possible exception of a rezzed CoH, if that comes to fruition, depending on all the details that have yet to be decided.) That's why I usually shy away from suggestions that want to make CoT more like other MMOs.

You might want to check out this really good thread that summarises a lot of what players loved about CoX:
http://cityoftitans.com/forum/things-made-coh-fun-you-youd-see-again My thoughts on the topic are summarised in that thread by the OP.

Empyrean wrote:

One concern I have is that it's also been stated that the Endgame will BE alting.

It might make you feel better to go back and read that KS update again, cuz alting is just 1/3 of the endgame they have alluded to so far. That same update mentions there will also be traditional endgame content as well as something new and special that they have not yet revealed.

Spurn all ye kindle.

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Fun, for me is:

Fun, for me is:
Designing Characters
Playing Characters up to the level cap, then getting the best gear for them (which takes time because I'm a slow player, and by that I mean I like playing support toons that don't solo as fast as scrappers).
Designing SG bases
Designing user-generated missions
Refilling my daily allotment of thing like Hero Merits, Jellomen, missions for Incarnate swag, etc.

But THE MOST FUN is doing Team-Oriented Content, and by that I mean Task Forces and Trials, Incarnate or otherwise. I think by the time they're a few years in , they ought to start making more endgame TFs, trials, etc. I'm less interested in having new public zones in which to solo missions and more interested in new group-fun activities to do with other people.

R.S.O. of Phoenix Rising

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There were many things I did

There were many things I did that were fun, from building a character from 1-50, crafting and selling dropped recipes on the market, Running the missions and enjoying the story, badge hunting, the list goes on and on. But what realy did it for me was the team game play. I have never had before or since in any other video game a more rewarding multi-player experience than CoH . Whether you were just a duo running mission, or a 32 person league on a mother ship raid the teaming was so amazing.

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Dirt 3 has a Team game called

Dirt 3 has a Team game called Cat & Mouse.
video of Team play: http://youtu.be/5pllKhe_gMQ
video of Capture The Flag (not team based.. but Sooo Fun to Watch): http://youtu.be/Ryc-YgOX9Ls

With a decent team, playing Football with the Mini Copper becomes kinda interesting. ;)

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Cinnder wrote:
Cinnder wrote:

It might make you feel better to go back and read that KS update again, cuz alting is just 1/3 of the endgame they have alluded to so far. That same update mentions there will also be traditional endgame content as well as something new and special that they have not yet revealed.

Never been happier to be wrong :D. I heard that thing about alting being the endgame in some interview with I think Warcabbit. BUT, I didn't find out about CoT till after the kickstarter and I guess I need to go back and re-read everything there.

And I want to +1 the above comments about inspirations. They were so fun and easy. Other temp boosts in games I've played are a pain in the butt and almost feel like a cheat. Inspirations were easy and really felt like they represented your Hero or Villain "digging deeper" in a pinch.

And they gave you another way to up the difficulty in PvP or PvE if you wanted by simply agreeing to "no inspirations."

FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)

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Alting is an option for

Alting is an option for endgame in pretty much *any* level based MMO though. Although you don't have to be *at* endgame to alt though....

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What i loved most about COH

What i loved most about COH was the fact that you didn't need to actually run missions to have fun. At least on Virtue there for most part a whole world going on. Players were in their own worlds RPing, talking, running CC's, base building (One of my favorite things to do), Hanging in Pocket D/Atlas Park, or just random antics that were entertaining to just be there or on. Then there's the missions, I loved doing missions/AE with a group. Rping while doing so and meeting new people and having them interested in your story. It was truly a community

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SavageFist wrote:
SavageFist wrote:

For me, there was just a certain visceral feel to the powers, sound and combat that I just can't find anywhere else. One thing mentioned by WarCabbit is also the 'weight' City of Heroes had and I'm glad he wants to replicate that feel in CoT as much as possible. Ironically but not coincidental, Neverwinter Online comes closest to that feeling more than Champions Online for me since all 3 games used some variation of the same game engine.
I like how different all the classes played and contributed to team combat as opposed to a game like Guild Wars 2 where my class never really felt like it had a specific role to play. Some people don't want to be relegated to meat shield or healer but I didn't mind the way it worked in CoH. Being a bubbler or rad defender could be great if the particular group was not hung up on "need empath healerz". It was rare but did happen.
Soooo many combos to try.
Masterminds - can't find the equivalent anywhere else. Some lame facsimile, sure, but an equal no way.
Controllers - again, can't find the equivalent anywhere else. Pretty much any MMO I've played that has a similar class(e.g. Control Wizard in Neverwinter) is so watered down in comparison as to make the word 'control' a huge joke. 2 seconds is not a hold and further insulting me with upgrades that give .10 to .5 extra seconds of sleep, hold or stun is insulting. I'm not a computer so can't notice such an upgrade and I refuse to play with a stopwatch to know my character is 'better'.
Hoarding enhancements, influence and salvage. lol
Making bases.
New powersets that got better each year. Damn, I miss Water Blast and was sooo looking forward to Wind Control. If you had watched some of the community talks with Zwillinger, Arbiter Hawk had mentioned they had figured out how to reverse the repel feature of powers. I don't know about you but I remember plenty of people that wished Tornado could suck enemies instead of repelling and it looks like it would have eventually happened in some future power.
Fighting LARGE mobs and winning. None of the MMOs I've played over the past year and half let me take on 17 foes at once. Not every AT could do it or had the right combo to do it with little risk and that was fine with me. I don't want everyone to be a watered down version that is jack of all trades, master of none.* I hope CoT keeps this in some form but can we get a round number like 20(OCD kicking in like when I had to constantly rearrange Inspirations) or even more awesome, increase it? Of course, the limit where you can handle so many foes would be at the final levels of power.
I can't talk this much about any other game.
*refer back to team combat and roles comment

Nailed it. Sums up roughly everything that caught my attention, sans the epic levels of personalization and customization.

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I loved, first and foremost,

I loved, first and foremost, the customisation. With other games you have a handfull of archtypes, and that defines your powers, and your roles, and everything. Not CoH/V, here we could not only define the costume, but define your powers, and change the animations and the colors. In other games, well, you want to be an ice blaster, well you have to be a tank. Not in CoH/V, here you can design the character you want. You want a giant flaming lava tank? you got it. You want a cat woman with a flamberge broadsword? you got it. You want a storm summoner to blow mobs off the roof tops? you got it. Of course there are limits, but no other game came close to CoH/V.

I loved rolling up a toon, entering mercy or atlas, and 5 minutes later kicking ass in the sewers, then moving too fast and getting pwned by the zombies.
I loved flying around port oakes at level 10, taking on random mobs with my dark energy blasters or super strength, knowing that I'm a villain thats getting away with slaughtering hundreds of people, coz they're villains too. (all hail Criminus)
I loved floating around Atlas with Britannia (Criminus's niece, BTW), kicking back in central plaza, then saying "screw it", loading up a random mission and just losing myslef in a bit of mayhem and justice.

On a more grim note.
I did not love the limit of just 2 characters per server. I eventually paid for 2 extra slots, and not long after, the game went belly up.
I did not love not having offline content. I often fought solo anyway, and sometimes, I couldnt get the internet service up.

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On another note, I also

On another note, I also adored the KB effects. There's nothing quite so satisfying as sending someone across the room with a Force Bolt, making a mook hit the ceiling with a Knockout Blow, or causing a horde of scrubs to ragdoll with a Nova. So many fond, funny memories...

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Gangrel wrote:
Gangrel wrote:

Alting is an option for endgame in pretty much *any* level based MMO though. Although you don't have to be *at* endgame to alt though....

True enough, but I think what makes alting an attractive endgame option is how much it's supported by the devs. E.g. you can alt in SWTOR, but after you've maxed one of each of the 8 classes, it's just repeats from there on. (For me the skill tree didn't make enough difference to play style to count.)

From what MWM has said, it seems that, as with CoX, there will be an ongoing development of power sets, non-max-lvl content, and possibly the occasional AT/class that will keep freshening the alting option. For me, alting as endgame isn't "OK, now you can make another one of those" but "OK, you've maxed that; now try this different one..."

Spurn all ye kindle.

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Criminus wrote:
Criminus wrote:

On a more grim note.
I did not love the limit of just 2 characters per server. I eventually paid for 2 extra slots, and not long after, the game went belly up.
I did not love not having offline content. I often fought solo anyway, and sometimes, I couldnt get the internet service up.

I take it you were a F2P player then, the game started with 8 slots/server and later 12, with the ability to buy more of course.

As for the second point, this is pretty much par for the course with MMOs.

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syntaxerror37 wrote:
syntaxerror37 wrote:

Criminus wrote:
On a more grim note.
I did not love the limit of just 2 characters per server. I eventually paid for 2 extra slots, and not long after, the game went belly up.
I did not love not having offline content. I often fought solo anyway, and sometimes, I couldnt get the internet service up.

I take it you were a F2P player then, the game started with 8 slots/server and later 12, with the ability to buy more of course.
As for the second point, this is pretty much par for the course with MMOs.

This is true, I was F2P, I came in near the end of CoH/V, and instantly loved it. I'd been playing WoW for years and did not even know that there was a super hero genre in the 3D MMO world.
As for the 'no offline content', I offer you 'Dungeon Siege', where you could play both the story mode, and the massive multiplayer map, offline. It can be done.

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Criminus wrote:
Criminus wrote:

As for the 'no offline content', I offer you 'Dungeon Siege', where you could play both the story mode, and the massive multiplayer map, offline. It can be done.

Well, yes, because Dungeon Siege is not an MMO, It is a stand alone game with online multiplayer capabilities. Back in the day I played a lot of Neverwinter Nights on Persistant World servers. They were almost MMOs in how they were run, but NWN itself was not an MMO,

It's not a matter of "can" they do it, of course they can. Most of the nuts and bolts of CoH was sitting on your hard drive anyway. But an MMO company can't make any money off you playing the game locally, they need your subscription and/or purchases from the in game store. This is all well and good when the game is running, but when it sunsets, the remaining players are left stranded.

The good news for us is, in the long term plans for CoT, the devs plan on making it capable to run the game locally if the servers are shut down.

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Quote:
Quote:

The good news for us is, in the long term plans for CoT, the devs plan on making it capable to run the game locally if the servers are shut down.

Now that makes me very happy.

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Doctor Tyche wrote:
Doctor Tyche wrote:

Unreal Engine by default enables you to run your client as a small server, for a single map. A large number of Unreal games remove this feature. We are not. Anything you do on your own server is private, does not reflect in the main world, but should we shut-down, it would not be difficult for people to collectively organize such servers and continue running without us. We actually expect such a "shadow server" to pop up regardless even while we are running.

You're welcome.

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I can't comment on what made

I can't comment on what made CoH fun as I never played it.

I CAN say that one of the things that made CoV fun was being able to rampage in Paragon City if only to blow steam off when one of your subordinates forgets the warhead in your doomsday missile.

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To me, COX was a lot of fun..

To me, COX was a lot of fun.. Why? Because my Wife enjoyed it as well.

The main functions\parts that attracted us to play are...

1.The graphics and GUI's especially the power pool set gui's ( unlike other mmos that have the basic square boxes at the bottom for powers)
2.The Customization of creating your character AND being able to change it in game play.Big Big part for both of us.
3.The game play for solo and teaming up with others and chatting was great.
4. I loved the sound affects and environments.(Especially when holidays came around) I Remember playing on Halloween weekends to knock on doors for treats or tricks . AWESOME!

With CoT being built on U4, i do expect more content and different looks and story lines. Almost like playing a spin of Game to COX. =)

Z

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I agree with Zeliop and I

I agree with Zeliop and I really hope we get trick or treating in CoT. I mean, CoX didn't invent Halloween, right?

R.S.O. of Phoenix Rising

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Flying through mobs with

Flying through mobs with force bubble on !

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Radiac wrote:
Radiac wrote:

I agree with Zeliop and I really hope we get trick or treating in CoT. I mean, CoX didn't invent Halloween, right?

During Halloween, on sidewalks (mostly, but could be in other areas in the forest near some SCARRY places), you could come across a Jackolantern (might vary in size).. and if you Click on it.. it could crack/explode Open.. and enemies Could jump out at you. ;)

BOOOOO! ;)

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1. Playing a flying masked

1. Being a flying masked cat in a costume;
2. Healing guildies/team members;
3. Healing younglings in the newbie zones;
4. Using Statesman's leg as a scratching post;
5. Rescuing Statesman when he would fly into a tree;
6. Hunting for badges and other shiny shinies;
7. Answering the Katt-Signal;
8. Participating in costume contests (and winning a prize when the judges actually read AK's biography); and
9. Hanging out with the Devs in Pocket D (I have even learned to forgive Positron for nullifying my Flight)!

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Amerikatt wrote:
Amerikatt wrote:

5. Rescuing Statesman when he would fly into a tree;

Stupid hero-eating trees. :(

Foradain, Mage of Phoenix Rising.
Millennium City Refugee
Foradain's Character Conclave

Dutch0524
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I started playing CoH in June

I started playing CoH in June of 04 and being my first MMO I don't think I'll ever be able to recreate that initial wonder and confusion. Some of the things I did out of simply not understanding the genre.:

1) Couldn't figure out how to travel between zones other than the tunnels so I would try huffing it (only had sprint) through skyway city at level 4, get killed and revive in the hospital and have to try huffing it out of there without getting killed again and again.

2) Once I picked up Combat Jumping, thought that I had to be actively jumping to activate the bonus to defense...good thing my character was Crickitt because I was hopping around like a spaz while firing off radiation blasts the entire time in combat.

3) Got so excited when I could combat jump my way up buildings for the first time and finally jumped my way to the top of a huge building. It's because I spent so much time on little side excursions like jumping up buildings that I leveled so slow at first...Anyway, finally made it to the top of a huge skyscraper with combat jump and then got a little over zealous and jumped over the roof only to get that "schwing" feeling as I fell. Never did truly get over that falling feeling in this game.

4) Somebody left a level 26 Devouring Earth ambush in King's Row so I came sprinting off the ramp to a contact only to be struck by that awful rip sound as I instantly died. Scared the piz out of me. Some guy rezzed me and went to get his level 21 alt to take care of the ambush. He sidekicked me but I had nothing really to offer so I hid behind a fence while he went to take care of things. Since the game was relatively new, there must of been a bunch of other players not fully in on the game mechanics as about a dozen or two level 6-10 heroes gathered to help this one level 20 take care of the Devouring Earth. Queue sounds of all kinds of hero powers going off but obviously missing...then that loud Ripper crunch. I peeked over the fence only to see every single hero faceplanted on the streets of King's Row....Oh the carnage.

I enjoyed the customization, the relative simplicity of the game, the teaming/solo flexibility, base-building, and the community (costume contests, pocket D (and that initial hidden club), Cape Radio)..
Tried CO for a long while and though there were aspects I enjoyed, I didn't like the twitch/block aspect and that teams were basically just frenetic button mashing parties of 5 solo builds
Tried DCUO and couldn't quite get into it for much the same reasons above.

Dr. Illuminatis
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To me what made CoH / CoV fun

To me what made CoH / CoV fun was running around with my super group, and playing through the game together.

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Mind-Freeze wrote:
Mind-Freeze wrote:

Flying through mobs with force bubble on !

That was fun!
I also just realized I never tried flying through the sewers with force bubble on. I bet that would have been a hoot clumping a whole bunch of them into a dead end for a team of lowbies to beat on.

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Dutch0524 wrote:
Dutch0524 wrote:

2) Once I picked up Combat Jumping, thought that I had to be actively jumping to activate the bonus to defense...good thing my character was Crickitt because I was hopping around like a spaz while firing off radiation blasts the entire time in combat.

I did about the same thing whenever I picked a ranged class. Saved me a lot of punishment, but I looked ridiculous.

Sometimes I took it up a notch and purchased Hover, then proceeded to levitate just above everyone's heads and take pot-shots at them while they screamed in pain and anger. Then there's the logical extreme, when you fly high in the sky and attempt to snipe high-level enemies. "Aero-Sniping," I called it. Also known as "Fag-Sniping" if you're on the receiving end of it.

<==========)===O|TtDd|O===(==========>
My original character profiles!

Redlynne
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What made City of Heroes FUN

What made City of Heroes FUN was ... that it was an experience meant to be shared. Even if you soloed everything, what you did and what you accomplished felt like you earned "bragging rights" for doing what you did.

Teaming up and watching the dynamics of group battles CHANGE from the solo experience ... fantastic.
Being able to Sidekick/Mentor (and the reverse) so as to bring people together regardless of their levels? PRICELESS.
Flashback to revisit "old" content (that you might have missed)? Icing on the cake (that is no lie)!
Fighting desperate battles against INCREDIBLE odds ...? What it's all about.
Having a game that allowed you as a Player to be "clever" and be rewarded for it? Beyond Priceless.

I think that one of the selling points for City of Heroes was that constant sense that the Player was always cast as the Underdog, even when your character could wipe the floor with the opposition thrown against you. A large part of that was the simple fact that your character(s) were nearly always *outnumbered* by the foes you were facing. 1 Player = 3 Minions ... and everything that flowed from that very basic assumption.

I've been playing The Elder Scrolls Online since it launched back in April, and let me tell you, it doesn't deliver the "battle against incredible odds" heroic feeling like City of Heroes did. Why not? Because ideally in PvE you're wanting to fight 1v1 or even 1v2, but as soon as it turns into 1v3 you start finding yourself hard pressed to survive. Compare that against a Tanker going up against 1v15 and there is literally no contest as to which makes you feel more like an Underdog, even if that feeling is illusory simply because your Tanker can "soak" what those 15 mobs are dishing out and survive the onslaught.

Back in the Issue 2-5 days, City of Heroes had a dearth of Things To Do™ once you reached Level 50 ... but as time (and the Issues) wore on, the game eventually reached the point where there was ALWAYS something that you could do. Join a Task Force/Strike Force. Do a Flashback. Customize your costume/powersets. Edit your Base. Hang out in social areas. And once we got the Incarnate system rolling, there were the Trials to do, but before the Incarnate system got fully established there was ... RAIDING. Rikti Mothership Raids! Hamidon Raids! And once the Alignment system came out there were Tip Missions and Alignment Missions, and before that there were the Newspaper/Scanner Missions.

In other words, there was always some sort of activity going on that you could hop into and participate in. The Sidekicking system meant that anyone could play with anyone else. It was all just so easy to get together and PLAY ... and because the different Archetypes had such a range of combinations, you rarely encountered the same collection of powers and strategies twice. Almost every group was different, both on paper and in appearance (costumes, powers, etc.). This meant that every group you joined created a sense of "discovery" for what everyone else could do (and what you could do for them).

And above all, you rarely ran into a sense of jealous hoarding among players due to the fact that no one was actually "competing" for the drops or rewards you received from playing. This engendered an exceptionally rare and precious feeling of camraderie among players. Other players weren't "competing" with you for the "good stuff" the way the do in other games, and so everything was Share And Share Alike, which made the community very friendly and open.


Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.
Izzy
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I just notice it now.. Nixie

I just notice it now.. Nixie Pixel said City of Heroes was one of her favorite games. :D
http://youtu.be/Q1lSCI0bO_c?t=2m22s

Empyrean
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Redlynne wrote:
Redlynne wrote:

What made City of Heroes FUN was ... that it was an experience meant to be shared. Even if you soloed everything, what you did and what you accomplished felt like you earned "bragging rights" for doing what you did.
Teaming up and watching the dynamics of group battles CHANGE from the solo experience ... fantastic.
Being able to Sidekick/Mentor (and the reverse) so as to bring people together regardless of their levels? PRICELESS.
Flashback to revisit "old" content (that you might have missed)? Icing on the cake (that is no lie)!
Fighting desperate battles against INCREDIBLE odds ...? What it's all about.
Having a game that allowed you as a Player to be "clever" and be rewarded for it? Beyond Priceless.
I think that one of the selling points for City of Heroes was that constant sense that the Player was always cast as the Underdog, even when your character could wipe the floor with the opposition thrown against you. A large part of that was the simple fact that your character(s) were nearly always *outnumbered* by the foes you were facing. 1 Player = 3 Minions ... and everything that flowed from that very basic assumption.
I've been playing The Elder Scrolls Online since it launched back in April, and let me tell you, it doesn't deliver the "battle against incredible odds" heroic feeling like City of Heroes did. Why not? Because ideally in PvE you're wanting to fight 1v1 or even 1v2, but as soon as it turns into 1v3 you start finding yourself hard pressed to survive. Compare that against a Tanker going up against 1v15 and there is literally no contest as to which makes you feel more like an Underdog, even if that feeling is illusory simply because your Tanker can "soak" what those 15 mobs are dishing out and survive the onslaught.
Back in the Issue 2-5 days, City of Heroes had a dearth of Things To Do™ once you reached Level 50 ... but as time (and the Issues) wore on, the game eventually reached the point where there was ALWAYS something that you could do. Join a Task Force/Strike Force. Do a Flashback. Customize your costume/powersets. Edit your Base. Hang out in social areas. And once we got the Incarnate system rolling, there were the Trials to do, but before the Incarnate system got fully established there was ... RAIDING. Rikti Mothership Raids! Hamidon Raids! And once the Alignment system came out there were Tip Missions and Alignment Missions, and before that there were the Newspaper/Scanner Missions.
In other words, there was always some sort of activity going on that you could hop into and participate in. The Sidekicking system meant that anyone could play with anyone else. It was all just so easy to get together and PLAY ... and because the different Archetypes had such a range of combinations, you rarely encountered the same collection of powers and strategies twice. Almost every group was different, both on paper and in appearance (costumes, powers, etc.). This meant that every group you joined created a sense of "discovery" for what everyone else could do (and what you could do for them).
And above all, you rarely ran into a sense of jealous hoarding among players due to the fact that no one was actually "competing" for the drops or rewards you received from playing. This engendered an exceptionally rare and precious feeling of camraderie among players. Other players weren't "competing" with you for the "good stuff" the way the do in other games, and so everything was Share And Share Alike, which made the community very friendly and open.

Big fat +1.

These are many of the reasons I have not found a game to play though I've tried desperately.

FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)

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Three things made it fun for

Three things made it fun for me:
1. The grinding in the game always felt like honest progress towards a long-term goal rather than a "necessary evil"... it wasn't a matter of doing the same thing over and over with the only guaranteed payoff being a miniscule chance that a rare item I'm after will drop.
2. The mechanics were complex enough to keep things interesting, but not so complex that it became a chore to deal with. I have no problem handling wildly elaborate numbers and formulae, but I hate it when extra crap to think about is put in a game just for the sake of having more arbitrary crap to think about in the game.
3. At least IMO, there were plenty of different goals to be persued (both things tangibly coded into the game itself and stuff self-determined by the player).

On the first point, I loved the idea that COX was initiailly considered a "lootless" MMO... everyone had access to the same stuff bought at in-game vendors, and it was more about how you used your powers that made the game fun. I was skeptical when they introduced crafting, but in the end they did it in a way that still made 98% of the "loot" available to everyone with the markets and eventually merit rewards, so even if you didn't get the drops you wanted, there was still a sense of making progress towards achieving the tweaks you wanted your character to have by picking up merits or even just Inf. to buy what you want from the market.

One other twist on the grinding aspect is that you didn't necessarily need other people to grind... soloing was a totally viable way to approach the game despite it being an MMO.

On to the second point, the mechanics... A big part of the fun of a game for me is digging into how things work... not just formulae, numbers and stats, but also the methodology in how the game's features are designed, and how things can be manipulated functionally. In CoX, the basic structure wasn't unnecessarily complicated... for example, everything that went into building a character was clear and intuitive:
-- Each AT had a clear-cut overall major role melded with 1 or 2 lesser roles, and the powers available to each AT were specifically tailored to what it was supposed to be about, while the powersets themselves were varied enough (even if it was just differing secondary effects of similar powers) that the characters still felt unique.
-- The core concept behind enhancements made logical sense (power X has A, B, C aspects to it, slotting various combinations/amounts of enhancements boosts the desired aspects of that power)
-- While the game started out fairly light in the customizability department, this aspect eventually evolved in a positive but not overwhelming way-- i.e. it didn't abandon the initial intuitiveness in favor of arbitrary complexity for the sake of complexity. Hami-o's and ED made people think outside the box a bit about how their powers could be tweaked and utilized more efficiently, and eventually the invention system went a step further in fine-tuning the tweakability of the system to allow everything from small bits of customization to suit the player's playstyle just a bit better all the way up to pushing the limits of what a given character could do.

As for the last point, on needing a goal, my general approach to video games is that of a completionist... if there's crap to collect or challenges, achievements, or tasks to complete, I'll try to find a way to do them all (or at least as many as legitimately possible) on a single playthrough/character. In CoX terms, there was stuff built into the game itself like badge collecting, completing story arcs, etc., and also self-defined goals like tweaking a character's build out fully with inventions, base-building, and so on. That was the kind of stuff that kept me interested... just logging in and beating stuff up is boring as hell to me.. if I wanted that, I could go and do that in single-player games instead.

Incidentally, this point is actually what caused me to quit the game... I played from about 6 months after launch until shortly after i16 was released-- when I saw that they added more Master-of badges. It was enough of a headache just to get a team together at all that was willing to attempt the first two (and many willing to attempt it wouldn't do so unless we had an ideal team makeup, usually including at least a stone tank/brute and an empath) let alone competent enough to actually accomplish the task. I wasn't about to go through all that crap again for the Imperious and 5th column versions (and any others they would add in future issues after that), especially with AE being released two issues prior resulting in a large portion of the game's population being AE-babies that couldn't find Steel Canyon (let alone Cimerora) if their life depended on it. All said and done, the prospect of having to struggle mightily in dealing with other people to keep my badge collection complete is what killed the game for me.

masterghostartist
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this whole thread makes me

this whole thread makes me sad. this city of titans game is the only answer and is so far away.

so i leave you with the next best thing:

http://youtu.be/H0Ib9SwC7EI

What a man thinks of himself, that is what determines, or rather indicates, his fate. - Henry David Thoreau

Darth Fez
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That GoPro made him look fat.

That GoPro made him look fat.

What? It did!

- - - - -
Hail Beard!

Support trap clowns for CoT!

Leo_G
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There were quite a few

There were quite a few factors that made CoX UN-fun for me though I did enjoy my time in the game more than any MMO I've played. The respec system was a hassle, the missions got really repetitive until much later in the game's life (then it felt like there was just so much to do, it'd be a waste to try and experience it all on one character, you almost HAD to do alternate content lines with different characters), the Archetype system left a lot to be desired (not that it was bad, but it just left you hungry for more combinations instead of rehashes of established combinations), NAMING(!!!) was a huge strain in the tail for me. There's more but I'd have to think more on it...

What made the game fun for me was how special my characters felt and played. I always swapped to different alts after having fun with one for a couple weeks. And in doing so, I'd likely be swapping into a character I hadn't played in months. The game was not so simple that I'd be able to just slide right back into playing said character instantly...sometimes it took half a dozen missions or possibly even a respec to get back into the swing with that character. And the game was forgiving enough that you could alter the difficulty in those situations so you can keep on having fun while readjusting.

What was fun was how the devs kept adding content that made you want to revisit your characters, be it the addition of a costume piece that you know would be perfect for a certain someone (gotta fire up that character and see how he looks! Awesome! Now to learn how to play him again so I can look good AND kick butt at the same time!), adding powers that diversify the character's style or missions that feel like they were made with your character in mind.

I also loved speculating on the forums about new possibilities or the current state of the game. Can't tell you how many times I went at it with people who think the Stalker AT was MEANT to lurk into a fight, assassin's strike and then run away...that isn't how you played them! That isn't how I teamed, solo'ed or succeeded with the AT, but if you want to handicap yourself, I did that too. I only used Practice Brawler on my SR scrapper *after* he got mezzed (i.e. reactionary) as I never played with any powers on auto. I also only picked up the Fitness Pool (before it was inherent) for characters with extraordinary fitness feats.

I also liked the animal parts available in the costume creator. About 50-60% of my characters either had some sort of animal theme or they were part/whole beasts in costumes and that brought at least 25% of the enjoyment to my play by itself! Even just making due with certain parts by mixing color and parts to make it look the part was fun! Yeah it would have been fun to have ape/monkey costume parts, by my Martial Arts/Shield mutant intelligence ninja-running monkey looked damned close!

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what made it so fun for me..

what made it so fun for me...a buncha things...a few being (in no particular order: Community, Character Creator, the Genre, no equipment rat-race. combining the actual gaming portion with the forums (mainly the art section) lead to a thoroughly enjoyable experience for this hero. I really hope that COT can capture that genie!

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I spent soooo much time in

I spent soooo much time in sirens call. I was terrible and always died but it was so much fun. Standing on the roof of the villian base with my personal shield up and laughing.

Hip hooters Nee!

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So you made a character,

So you made a character, picked your powers, and messed around with the color scheme.
Then you pick redside, and picked up your first mission.
Then began murdering longbow agents.

I spent a long time murdering longbow agents.
My name is Chthonios, and I'm a sociopath

_____________________________________________________________________________

Lord Nightmare
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Dear god......villainy that

Dear god......villainy that even the Nightmare wouldn't stoop to...

No, not the sociopathic murders. Not the killing sprees..

Blackredding.

Criminus
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Whether its planning a bank

Whether its planning a bank job, or selling arms (and sometimes guns) to rogue nations, conducting experiments of aliens (and sometimes space aliens), blowing up churches, killing police officers, or just stealing candy from a child...
All criminal activity is my criminal activity.
But man, are those longbow agents fun to break.

_____________________________________________________________________________

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Beside the back then unique

Beside the back then unique and awesome superhero setting, what made CoX fun was its colorful community. I played with old, young, powergamres, housewifes, disabled etc, but everyone could contribute to the tasks at hand, and it was all fun. Generally no e-peen, no harassing or flaming, just a helpful bunch that enjyed the game.

Now, why did we have this helpful and diverse community? I believe because the game was quite easy to play on several levels, and that attracted a broad audiance.

1) Your characters felt powerful. You could rush in a bunch of NPC's and start wrecking havoc. Almost anyone could handle the combat, and if not, at least play a very useful support role. There really was something for everyone and not just veteran gamers with good reflexes. I know I prefer kicking big groups of henchmen like a hero, than struggle with two mobs like in most other MMO's.

2) The questtracker, if you can call it that. It was great and simple and it's unbelivable that no game has copied it. Leader choses a mission from all availibe in the team, and everyone gets to do it no matter if they've done it laready or not. The objectives and navpoints are all shared withing the team. Super simple. The common questtracker in mmo's today is such a pain to use, with individual objectives and questsharing that never works due to level restrictions or because someone already did that quest. It's just time consuming and no fun.

3) Sidekicking, oh my precious. Speaking from a personal view, CoX was the only MMO I actually could play and enjoy with my friends, any friends at any time. I play more than my RL friends, and I always outlevel them. That was never ever any issue in CoX. I either brought them with me, or exemplared down to their level. Again, no hassle, just login, play and have fun. And I bet I wasn't the onlyone out there that really enjoyed this feature.

4) Instancing. Some hate it, but I loved it. You had the whole map for yourself and your team. No kill stealing, no waiting for bossspawns etc. I enjoyed how the instances adapted to your team, instead of you having to find certain amount of members of certain classes and adapt to the game.

The lack of the features in point 2-3 is actually the reason why I never stay in any other MMO more than a month tops. They tend to all end up as a single player game where I reach max level and have noone to share end game with. I played CoX from beta to the end (with a few small breaks now and then). Point 2 & 3 is probably the biggest reason why CoX was fun, at least for me =)

-----[ Rad ]-----

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Too many things to mention!

Too many things to mention! To sum it up a world where a player could make virtually any type of character they desired. The game just SCREAMED team! At times, it was like continuous combat with ridiculous numbers of power options. OMG I miss it. :(

Little_Unicorn
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I got to be a sparkly unicorn

I got to be a sparkly unicorn! Yay!
The community was amazing! Yay!
It was fun right from the beginning! Yay!

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When thinking about CoH/CoV

When thinking about CoH/CoV it is important to remember that Issue 23 was so very different from Issue 1 it had very nearly become an entirely new game. The game evolved greatly over time.

In the beginning, the beta test period and Issue 1-3, the ONLY thing I enjoyed about the game was the character creator. The blueside with it's constant harping about being heroic and doing the right thing and saving the city and all that jazz was too shallow for my taste. The highest I ever got was level 20 or 22, something like that. The narrative qualities of the game and lack of personality in the characters was a complete turn off. Great character creator, decent although repetitive gameplay, shallow narrative.

CoV, on the other hand, completely caught me up in the game world. Started out gritty, moved to stylish, and ended epic. Missions ranged from simple kill all missions to bank heists, kidnappings, and even rescues! Search and destroy, search and seize, search and steal! And the characters! Lord Recluse, the secretive, shadowy master of the Rogue Islands. Ghost Widow, the ephemeral, drop dead sexy, cold as ice second in command. Scirocco with his blend of exotic Arabian and mysterious Japanese metaphors. Black Scorpion with his patchwork armor, bullish attitude, and murderous psychosis. Each signature character was completely unique, multidimensional, and commanded a host of lesser characters that were equally diverse.

The mystery of the Snakes, the eco-guardian Coralax, the self-righteous and deeply corrupt Legacy Chain, the fascist and militaristic Longbow. Enemy groups with realistic agendas and goals that served a real story purpose and were far more than mere punching bags for players to level up on. And what great stories! Wretch and his loyalty to Ghost Widow, The betrayal by Mu'Rakir and his group of conspirators. The multitude of attempts by Longbow to infiltrate the Rogue Islands. The callous cruelty of Westin Phipps. Getting missions from a television! The stories in the Rogue Islands held allusions to myth, comics, science fiction, literary classics, and contemporary events! Some of the finest game story telling I have ever encountered was in CoV. My mastermind was level 50 almost before I realized it and it was only after defeating Ghost Widow and Lord Recluse that I realized I had been playing the same character for over six months and had never once regretted it. All because of the stories.

After Going Rogue came out I finally broke down and made a hero. It took almost two years to get to level 50 though, because the heroside, even with all the additional material, was still 80% the same old, "go out there and beat up some bad guys and save our city!" Croatoa was nice, Faultline had some interesting stories, after it came out Cimerora was fun, especially the caves filled with ruins and old pottery; those were very cool.

And of course, the Mission Architect, one of my favorite aspects of the game. I advocated for it over the course of two or three years, proposed several different variations on the theme, and was pleased as punch to find most of the interface elements I'd recommended were applied to the final product. It turned almost exactly how I'd envisioned it, which made me feel a deep connection to both the game and the development team.

So, the answer to the question "What made CoH so frickin' fun?" is not a simple one. It involves time, evolution, community, and a development team that worked as hard as they could to implement every reasonable suggestion made by the players. Without player input there never would have been a City of Villains, a Mission Architect, Warburg, a Second Rikti invasion, Praetoria, Cimerora, Time Travel, or a host of other features, powersets, costumes, and stories.

PvP kind of got short-shifted, but honestly, in my personal opinion this is a good thing. I never have believed PvP was a major audience and despite the success of League of Legends, I still don't believe a MMORPG should cater to PvP players. Although there are exceptions, Most dedicated PvP players don't care about story, setting, artwork, or even character progression and all of these are the very foundation of a successful MMORPG.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Been there, done that, lived to tell about it.

Brand X
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For me...EVERYTHING!

For me...EVERYTHING!

OMG I LOVED IT! I ran a large RP SG and I would still go roll up a new alt to level (without going AE farming) because I loved playing the game! I had SG members who said they were tired of the leveling and just stuck to RPing (until they could be farmed up) and couldn't understand how I just enjoyed playing the game!

then there was the global chat system, none have matched it in any other game for me.

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Brand X wrote:
Brand X wrote:

then there was the global chat system, none have matched it in any other game for me.

One of the things I loved about the global chat system is that it didn't prefix your chat with your character name, just your account name. So, using keybinds, I could chat in-channel as multiple characters at once, which is very useful for SG meetings when multiple alts might be officially in attendance, even though only one could actually be logged in.

Brand X
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Mendicant wrote:
Mendicant wrote:

Brand X wrote:
then there was the global chat system, none have matched it in any other game for me.

One of the things I loved about the global chat system is that it didn't prefix your chat with your character name, just your account name. So, using keybinds, I could chat in-channel as multiple characters at once, which is very useful for SG meetings when multiple alts might be officially in attendance, even though only one could actually be logged in.

I can do that with just Brand X: Spoilsport: Hi team!

I don't know what it was exactly, but CoH just seemed to have a better chat system than other MMOs.

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Yeah, you *can* do it with

Yeah, you *can* do it with your current character name prepended to the line, but it's smoother and more immersive without it.

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Mendicant wrote:
Mendicant wrote:

Brand X wrote:
then there was the global chat system, none have matched it in any other game for me.

One of the things I loved about the global chat system is that it didn't prefix your chat with your character name, just your account name. So, using keybinds, I could chat in-channel as multiple characters at once, which is very useful for SG meetings when multiple alts might be officially in attendance, even though only one could actually be logged in.

Although the "non global" chat channels *did* use the character name.

I have ended up spouting off in a "private" global channel about some person spamming in local/shout/broadcast, only to discover that they were in the same channel.

Quote:

1) I reject your reality.... and substitute my own
2) Not to be used when upset... will void warranty
3) Stoke me a clipper i will be back for dinner
4) I have seen more intelligence from an NPC AI in TR beta, than from most MMO players.

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I loved City of Heroes,

I loved City of Heroes,
I played it for 7 years, from Issue 1 until it went Free to Play,
I had every expansion, most of the hero packs.
I spent hundreds of dollars and thousands of hours into this game.

The main thing that made the game for me was the character of the game, and the character it let me play with.

I had a Melee/Inv Tank that was bright red and looked like a bull, named Red Bull
Every time one of my toons got a Wings drop I would mail it to this toon,
So whenever Red Bull ran a TF at the end while we stood victorious he would gift wings to all his teammates shouting RED BULL GIVES YOU WINGS!

I had Teh LOL Cat a Emp Healer
Who bound all her spells to chat keys Shouting HEALZ NOA!
whenever she used summon teammate she would yell out I CAN HAZ "Name"

I had Everyday Normal Guy, and Mace (Baseball bat) / Willpower Toon
His gig was, he was normal, someone Skul had stolen his little brothers bike so he grabbed his baseball bat to go get it back, he used no powers, except temporary ones he picked up as he went, passives and the pool powers.

I had Sudden Chill a Ice/FF Controller who was my main,
His story was his Ice mutation manifested randomly one night, and he accidentally killed his wife and kids, now bound by Crey force-field tech to make sure he never goes to wild and hurts the innocents again he wandered ready to try and right the wrong he has committed.
When I started playing him I did feel sad for him and his desire to fight the good fight, but as he triumphed and gained levels and prestige, eventually he gained the FF Commander accolade complete with Epaulette's and when he wore his mighty Task Force Commander costume proudly showing those epaulettes I was happy to see how far that character had gone, how much he had achieved, that he had become a hero in his own eyes and in mine!

Every single one of my toons had stories, from sweeping epics like Rest In Peace (my tortured undead Peacebringer) to Chef on fire, (who was a chef who had mystically enhanced fryer oil sprayed all over him, that's his story) each character had a reason, a purpose a goal.

I only ever reached level 50 5 times, and had over 50 toons but I knew them all, loved them all.

I loved the task forces, I Loved that you didn't need a DPS/Tank/Healer to run them. I did so many pick-up taskforces with random teams, of no tank, or no defender, and still one, Did an 8 man Quarterfield with only Controllers, we didn't have a single death. It was so much fun. Sadly my dream of an 8 man Mastermind Quarterfield was never realized.

I loved finding teams, it was usually so easy, I would see some people running towards a door, shoot a tell, "he need another"? and pop I would be in the building fighting side by side my fellow heroes/Villains. If I wanted to solo I could, but usually whenever I wanted a team, I could find one.

I was usually the Task Force Leader, and Finding people to play was never that hard, people where there and happy.

Even in the worst events, of team wipes and hopeless situations, the people I played with were always happy, and inviting. I don't remember ever getting rage or "N00b" speak like I have seen in other MMO's people were helpful. The Help Channel was always streaming with chat of people just being nice to each other.

I loved Travel Powers, playing other MMO's and not having them... hooo boy, you noticed. My Archer/Trick Archer Defender was always in hover flying over his enemies, one of my few 50's He would rain death and chaos down on the best of them. And he hated Mutants, that was his thing, when given the choice he would always choose the mutant bad guy missions, and single them out for death, blaming them for pain in his past.

I loved travel, none of this Flight Path thing, I saw people playing WoW and sitting for minutes on a flight path as it took them across the map, it was pretty yeah, but they had to pay for the privilege to go from a zone to another? and just sit there as their subscription was spent on them watching the game fly by?? Train, bam I'm there!

I like the items. by the fact there wasn't any. None of this min-maxing stats, or needing this gear requirement or the other. I played The Old Republic to End game but never wanted to farm up the "best" gear, I was interested in the story! So trying to get into the end game raids I would get turned down if my gear wasn't sufficient, I would need to farm lower missions, over and over and over to get the gear I needed to unlock the next level of raid, then farm those until again gear up for the next.
CoH my role didn't matter, my stats didn't matter, we just would play.

They eventually started the whole Incarnate thing which I only kind of got into. Did a couple Master of those (Man Master of's were fun! what a cool way to make a challenge!)
but it started getting into a farm grind, too much work.

I liked enhancements they were easy to understand, this boosts damage, that range, you have limited slots how do you want to build your toon? giving you control of how you want to play your character that was easy to change or develop,

The auction house was easy to use and understand. I would sell every drop I had at exactly 11 dollars, some times people would buy the items for 11 *shrug* good on em they got a deal, sometimes they would pay me millions of Inf. I was happy to get so much for something I posted at 11 and was happy the person who paid for it got it at the price they were willing to pay. Win/Win.

I loved instances, none of this travel around and beat up 15 badguys, (yes there were a few of those I tended to avoid them if I could) but travel through buildings, streets, jungles, forests, construction zones, and ziggurauts with goals and patterns, with people working with you to beating the mission, instead of stealing your kills so you have to sit and wait for them to respawn to complete your mission.

I liked the area missions, like putting out fires in Steel Canyon, or beating Super Skuls in Skyway.

I liked feeling heroic, like someone making a difference, like someone that mattered.

I liked the community, the podcasts, the videos, the love.

CoX is the Best MMO I have ever played, nothing has matched it so far.

Be warned City of Titans. You have a lot to live up to.

And I shall leave you with this:
http://youtu.be/o1_mUr1qCQM?list=PLhnv3lhy4sqxxbdBrWyws_wlYeEMi0zk6

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Dribbler wrote:
Dribbler wrote:

I had Everyday Normal Guy, and Mace (Baseball bat) / Willpower Toon
His gig was, he was normal, someone Skul had stolen his little brothers bike so he grabbed his baseball bat to go get it back, he used no powers, except temporary ones he picked up as he went, passives and the pool powers.

I assume his travel power was a bus (the amount of inf he saved was off the hook) and he was also pretty good at making paper planes?

Spurn all ye kindle.

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Dribbler wrote:
Dribbler wrote:

Be warned City of Titans. You have a lot to live up to.

Um, yeah. Everything Dribbler said x10.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Been there, done that, lived to tell about it.

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The other two threads (linked

The other two threads (linked just below) and this one cover a whole lot of what was wonderful about CoH for me.

http://cityoftitans.com/forum/things-made-coh-fun-you-youd-see-again
http://cityoftitans.com/forum/what-was-it-made-cox-special-you

But, I've been wanting to drop a couple specifics myself, and this looks like a good place to do it.

1. Choose your Difficulty: The difficulty slider was golden. I can't even put it in more detail. There aren't enough words.

2. Keybinding: I don't play the typical kb/mouse way. My preferred setup worked wonderfully in CoH. I had movement keys on the Numpad and Powers on the left hand (centered on ESDF). This was especially nice as Camera Tilt could be put on keys in the numpad area. Why is it no other game makes camera tilt available to keybind? Why isn't keyboard turn speed available ever? This style of kb play worked wonderfully in CoH for me.

3. Flashback: I am a completionist. I was still in the process of playing my Main through EVERY mission in the game via Flashback. I had multiple builds IOd for different level ranges, so that I could play my level 50 main through every mission through every tier at a higher difficulty setting than I used while leveling.

4. IOs: I absolutely LOVED building things in Mids and spent ludicrous amounts of time doing so, even if I never built it all in game. I got my friend to come back by developing him a cheap, uber-functional build that massively increased his main character's functionality. Then, he started working towards the purpled out version.

5. Instancing: So many games feel like they can't use instancing and they have to have everything in the open world. I loathe this. Nothing sucks worse than waiting for an open world spawn for a mission, and having to compete with 5+ other people who need it to.

6. And So Many More. See the other two threads and this one.

But, there were some issues I had with the game. These issues drove my friend off multiple times. I learned to tolerate them, though they bugged me.

Some things CoX needed to FIX:

1. Status Effects: This didn't bother everyone in the same way. But, to me, I wouldn't play a character without a status protection power due to the system. All I can say is: Diminishing Returns and Temporary Status Immunity Please!

2. Debuffs (by mobs to you): The scaling/stacking of these was often obscene. Example: Dark Ring Mistress takes you from +20 defense to -60 (or worse). Two of them could make you melt instantly to the rest of the spawn. Defense debuffs seemed to be the worst offender, but there were others. There needed to be some limits that weren't present.

I'm sure I'll remember something else to add later, but that's what springs to mind at the moment.

I missed the Kickstarter. I can't wait until this game gets going and I can give it money. After 8+ years of CoX, I haven't found anything that I like nearly as much. I am playing SWTOR currently. I keep trying all of these Action Combat MMO games, and I can't play them well at all. I want the CoX style combat and setting back.

Edit: Oooh! Lore. How could I leave out lore. I play for the stories. I need the Lore, and the stories coming here look totally like I'm going to love them.

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Cinnder wrote:
Cinnder wrote:

Dribbler wrote:
I had Everyday Normal Guy, and Mace (Baseball bat) / Willpower Toon
His gig was, he was normal, someone Skul had stolen his little brothers bike so he grabbed his baseball bat to go get it back, he used no powers, except temporary ones he picked up as he went, passives and the pool powers.

I assume his travel power was a bus (the amount of inf he saved was off the hook) and he was also pretty good at making paper planes?

He really liked the show Gray's anatomy.

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Sounds like Casey Jones from

Sounds like Casey Jones from the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles

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What made City of Heroes fun

What made City of Heroes fun and spectacular was ... Mass Combat Battles ... and fighting the "good" fight against Terrible Odds. This meant that the normal state of the game was for the Player to be outnumbered, in essentially every encounter. Every spawn group outnumbered the Players. EVERY SPAWN GROUP.

Most of the swords and sorcery games try to cut back on the Mass Combat, or relegate it to Endgame Content. You're supposed to be able to defeat a single Foe with ease, two Foes with a bit more difficulty and three Foes ought to force you into rest & recovery afterwards before engaging the next group. Combat is highly "granular" and PCs are simply not designed to take on hordes of Foes all at once.

Needless to say, just about every Tanker in existence SCOFFED at this notion. The whole point of being a Tanker was to be at the bottom of the dogpile and to keep on swinging until there weren't any Foes left! The benchmark reason to play a Scrapper was SCRAPPERLOCK. 'Nuff said!

With great quantities of Foes comes great opportunities for FUN!

Being outnumbered all the time ensured that no matter what the situation was, your PC always felt like the Underdog in the confrontation ... even when your build was completely capable of mopping with floor with the opposition you were facing. You were an Army Of One (if you were a Scrapper) ... or you were an Army Of Eight ... and no matter what the challenge, you would mow down your opponents and stand victorious over their faceplanted ... faces.

So I would argue that the sheer DYNAMISM of the mass combat found in City of Heroes held a tremendous appeal. It's also why people who played Tabula Rasa loved assaulting and defending Control Points. Target Rich Environment = Hours Of Fun!


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Redlynne wrote:
Redlynne wrote:

What made City of Heroes fun and spectacular was ... Mass Combat Battles ... and fighting the "good" fight against Terrible Odds.

Target Rich Environment = Hours Of Fun!

Agreed. Other than the Superhero genre itself, this is one of the things I miss the most about CoH.

FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)

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Teamwork was so very well

Teamwork was so very well emphasized as not only the way to accomplish big things, but as the theme of this genre. There are so many games out there that make PvP "The Way To Go" if you want the good stuff, and, to get as much cash as they possibly can squeeze out of the players with the least amount of expenditure on their part... And some have found that they need to backtrack and make the good stuff available to the soloers and non PvP people... I liked the Giant Monster / Rikti Mothership raids where it looked kinda like the whole world's superheroes were cooperating on a global threat, instead of bickering on irrelevant self-importance issues...
Fun should be the watchword, rather than the build flavor of the week... I'm not saying no PvP, but, I want the choice of whether or not I am taking part in it... (Won't be except for testing build versions as a favor)
I would like more than 50 levels, the option of perhaps either adding a new power, or, reinforcing one I already have at appropriate levels added to the new game's wish list at least, but, really liked the way CoX played.
I had lots of alts, deleted lots of alts, and the Sidekick option was so very great to bring in new players and new alts, creativity was encouraged in player appearance and power selection, even though the graphics were much more limited than today's capabilities...
We can do so much more now, and, have much better tools to do the whole thing...

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I grew up in the silver age

I grew up in the silver age of comics and I remember plucking down twelve cents of my hard earned chore money to become lost in a world of superheroes. Yeah that was a long time ago. But CoH did a great job creating that same feeling in me years later. In fact, it was even better because of my direct participation and the myriad options available to me to look and act the way I wanted. Thank you CoH.

In terms of game mechanics, I thought the whole supergroup and bases thing was pure genius. I even very much enjoyed the base raid aspect of the game for the brief time that they were around. I must admit I was more than a little frustrated with the condition of code and the inability to make improvements over time. But I was always grateful we were given this opportunity to create and socialize.

But most of all, it was definitely the community. With very few exceptions, there was a kindness... a tolerance...and helpfulness that I have never experienced before or since. Players took the time to write guides, establish websites, do videos, provide technical support, donate to causes and do all kinds of other stuff in game and out; not for personal gain but just for doing good to others. It was incredible. I have the fortune of living in the SF Bay Area and I was able to attend every HeroCon and Meet and Greet they had in this area and they were all amazing experiences of fellowship and fun... just like the game itself. Nothing came close to the CoH community.

Now if you will excuse me, I have to go find a Kleenex.

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Redlynne wrote:
Redlynne wrote:

With great quantities of Foes comes great opportunities for FUN!

Absolutely! Facing 1-3 opponents in most other games, and having it sometime be a struggle, is always a let down. My main, a Tanker, often played on +4x8, and it was AWESOME.

I miss jumping into a veritable horde.

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Opening up the game for the

Opening up the game for the first time at European launch and, after about an hour of playing with the character creator, building a Dark Melee/Inv scrapper and getting overawed by the Tutorial. Then entering Atlas Park, hearing that deep Da-da-da-dadada-daa fanfare and waiting to level up at Ms Liberty with a hundred other toons. Getting beaten to a pulp by a gang of level 3 Hellions, and again by more Hellions near the hospital! Having a mission in a Argosy Industrial Park and having to join a team in order to get through the level 6 Clockwork. Best fun I'd had in a game.

My first Level 6 - a Martial Arts/SR scrapper called Star Girl on Defiant. Surely I wasn't the only one who took Hover at Level 6 and tried to fly over the war wall because I was so impatient I didn't read through properly and didn't know how else I could possibly get out of Atlas Park!

After two scrappers I made a tank, Inv/SS, and eventually entered The Hollows for the first time. Gunshots. Cops behind sandbags. Wincott. Frostfire. I saw my first Kheldians there. No travel powers meant immense, frightening journeys on foot through a devastated landscape thick with trolls and spooky wizards and weird white golems, which meant inevitable and innumerable faceplants. Teaming was easy and exciting and delirious fun - the community was, and remained, fantastic. We were all new, and at some point we came across a controller who was desperate for help since she had no idea how to do anything in the Hollows without getting mangled horribly. It turned out she was an Illusion/FF. At first, the bubbles were something of an annoying surprise, but after a couple of missions we were all still alive and all levelling up in Atlas Park. She took Teleport Other and we didn't even have to run all the way to the missions anymore! I thought it was the most incredible thing I'd ever seen, so went straight out and made an Illy/Bubbler of my own. Little did I know how much stamina those things ate up... no wonder high-level guys were offering bazillions for a place on Spelunker badge missions.

We all complained about the Hollows, about how frustrating it was because the mobs were tough and we had no travel powers. My middle toons avoided it and went straight to Kings Row instead, but I missed it. By the time my late alts were hitting level 6 there had been a ton of changes, and the early levels were easier, with jet packs and temporary, troll-busting, uber-powers, and the Hollows seemed to have been, as we used to say, nerfed. So we all complained that we missed the old Hollows. The dev must have loved us all. ;)

So, I guess that's what I want. I want that sense of awe and wonder, and the incredible community that shared it. If CoT comes close, I'll be a happy, happy bunny.

Running's not a plan!
Running's what you do when a plan fails!

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I for one loved how epic

I for one loved how epic everything was, being a controller you could literally call storms and the animation and sound effects made you feel like something epic was indeed happening. Or with earth controlling you pressed a button and huge pillars of rock engulfed all surround enemies. Everything in the game looked and felt EPIC!

Also the character creation was SOOOO fun! It would probably be embarrassing to see how long I've spent in the character creator in CoX. Building every element of a super being and then getting to fight crime with them and watch all the amazing combat animation, what's more fun then that?!

The Carnival of Light in the Phoenix Rising
"We never lose our demons, we only learn to live above them." - The Ancient One

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realizing characters I create

realizing characters I create on paper into an actual game that I can play! while costumes tended to have to be changed, if not outright redesigned, the concept was still there for me to play, enjoy and share with the community. :)

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The superhero genre is

The superhero genre is something I've loved all my life.
Seeing it come to life in movies and TV was almost always disappointing,
because the creators of the shows didn't share my vision.
I had the same problem a lot of the time playing superhero Role Playing Games.
Even when the makers of the game had the right idea often the people I played with didn't.

COH didn't always share my vision either, but it came a lot closer than any show I'd ever watched.
I could make my character and enter the world and see it come to life for me.
I could interact with the parts I liked and ignore the rest.

I didn't have to play with other people either and that was The best part.
If I closed my chat window I didn't even have to know anyone else was in the world.

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TheMightyPaladin wrote:
TheMightyPaladin wrote:

Sounds like Casey Jones from the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles

Or the wrestler.

Abe Knuckleball Schwartz.

Longtime City of Heroes player, longtime writer. :)

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Redlynne wrote:
Redlynne wrote:

What made City of Heroes fun and spectacular was ... Mass Combat Battles ... and fighting the "good" fight against Terrible Odds. This meant that the normal state of the game was for the Player to be outnumbered, in essentially every encounter. Every spawn group outnumbered the Players. EVERY SPAWN GROUP.

Being outnumbered all the time ensured that no matter what the situation was, your PC always felt like the Underdog in the confrontation ... even when your build was completely capable of mopping with floor with the opposition you were facing. You were an Army Of One (if you were a Scrapper) ... or you were an Army Of Eight ... and no matter what the challenge, you would mow down your opponents and stand victorious over their faceplanted ... faces.
So I would argue that the sheer DYNAMISM of the mass combat found in City of Heroes held a tremendous appeal. It's also why people who played Tabula Rasa loved assaulting and defending Control Points. Target Rich Environment = Hours Of Fun!

Oh hellz ya!

One of my defining memories of CoH was my first toon, A scrapper named Dribbler
He was a Claw/SR scrapper, and I started him in the days of like uber debt, I remember getting stuck in the tunnels of Faultline (again old school pre redesign) mounting up like 3 levels worth of debt, and logging out of the character for about... a year.
He was my first ever toon, but never actually made it to 50...
One of his things was he wasn't a full metahuman, just a really good one, so he never took a travel power, just powered up the passive ones you could get in the fitness pool. Means he was slow getting around at times, but in small areas he was spectacular.

Anyways, story time.

In an instance.
running around looking for an objective, Armies of 5th column surrounding me. (think it was 5th column, them, or the ones that replaced them.... regardless...)
Scrapping my way through a few small engagements, came across a larger batch of them, wasn't too gung ho on engaging so many, when a patrol came up behind me (roaming bad guys, something else you do'n't see in a lot of other games, makes it hard to predict movement and plan your route, which in term makes the game more interesting.)
I had started agro, but felt I might lose the battle, so I did the heroic thing, Ran away!
(I know great story eh?)

However for, reasons, I didn't run the way I came, so ended up in a dead end with, hey there, another group of bad guys.
I was maybe level 35 at this point?
So heck with it, If I'm gonna die, I'm gonna die fighting.
Jumping in and out of pockets of bad guys spamming AoE's and cone attacks, popping inspirations, leaping from the high ground to the low ground and back again, (warehouse map thingy)

To my memory it was a solid 3 minute solo fight dodging, fighting and giving it my all.
After the battle and standing triumphant over the defeated bodies of my enemies, I was personally worked up, my adrenaline was pumping, I had a physical reaction to a badass fight in a video game.
And to top it all off, I felt my little Dribbler, the scrapper that could, was a HERO, like damn, go my avatar go! |

Things like that, are what made City of Heroes fun

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Redlynne wrote:
Redlynne wrote:

You were an Army Of One (if you were a Scrapper) ... or you were an Army Of Eight ...

Or if you had some masterminds and/or illusion controllers, an army of forty or so, lagging everything to death...

Has anyone seen my mind? It was right here...

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The first rule of Herd Club

The first rule of Herd Club is you don't talk about Herd Club.


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I liked being able to farm

I liked being able to farm +4x8 on my archery/fire blaster, as well as solo most Arch Villains. Also my supergroup was like a family to me. Just running missions with them helped me get over my depression. Also endgame was super fun.

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It did not get fun until

It did not get fun until around issue 10 for me when the Ritki War began. I really like how the Ritki went from naked punching bags to armored soldiers and warships. Then suddenly it slumped( in my opinion) as stories went, then sorta picked up with the Praetorians, then really got me with the Incarnate story and the first mission that gave us the "I WIN" power over A.V.s. After that all the numbers stacked and some were maxed, I felt powerful, and had those "Awe moments" when I convinced my friends how powerful you could get in game. When they said they could not believe it, I was feeling the PC master race euphoria before it was cool.

All 4 Mutants

Evolution is key. And mutants are key.

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Link: City of Heroes ...

Link: City of Heroes ... Crowning Moments of Awesome


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I'm glad you posted that. I

I'm glad you posted that. I hadn't looked at it in so long.. and I remember looking at it over and over again when I first saw it, too!

Longtime City of Heroes player, longtime writer. :)

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Lin Chiao Feng wrote:
Lin Chiao Feng wrote:

Redlynne wrote:
You were an Army Of One (if you were a Scrapper) ... or you were an Army Of Eight ...
Or if you had some masterminds and/or illusion controllers, an army of forty or so, lagging everything to death...

I remember having something like that early on, when you could have more than one vanity pet out at a time (boo on changing that!)

Thugs MM
6 main minions
13 Gang War

/traps
2 seeker drones
1 force field generator
1 triage healer (2 would briefly overlap with hasten, great game didn't make the previous one disappear when another was cast, thank god.)
1 acid mortar

The last 2 didn't move but counted as pets in your pet bar

1 The 1-shot giant mech purchased for 250 Vanguard Gulch Vanguardbucks, forget what it was called (and the single greatest pet in the game, tough and mega firepower, and lasted until you zoned or it or you died.)
1 That blue ghost fatso chemical guy
1 "Backup Radio", a temp power of a military black ops guy, craftable from AH

And if you did this in the Recluse's Victory warzone, you could pick up another ultra-tough mech pet from a terminal, too.

N vanity pets for some N > 1, but generally these did not appear in your pet list.

So for something like 30s or whatever Gang War's duration was, you could have over 30 pets if you wanted to blow some hard-to-get ones. And this didn't even count the 1-shot mission reward pets like that Witch whatsername you get for 10 times the charm.

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Gorgon
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Which brings to mind just how

Which brings to mind just how much power you could amp yourself to if you really, really wanted to pull out all the stops.

On top of all that, trigger your NBCs from Warburg, click a bunch of purples, and boom! Before Incarnate, I could hold out solo the entire Freedom Force under Atlas at the end of that one task force for about 45 seconds.

Other games are just pathetic compared to this -- you can't amp yourself to something on the order of 10x your normal running around power levels. It's like going super saiyan or something.

OOoooh boy, I have a 2s hold in Star Wars The Old Republic!

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The very existence of the taunting tank irritates, for it requires idiotic AI that obeys the taunt.

Redlynne
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Back before Telekinesis got

Back before Telekinesis got nerfed into the ground and pounded with a piledriver into uselessness (max targets *5!!?!*) ... Ms Givings was able to use it on hordes of Skyraiders in Terra Volta. Being able to HOLD some 10+ Skyraiders in a corner of the terrain with a single Toggle Power ... forever ... was ... awesome.

Back you autograph hunters! Back!


Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.
Jack Frost
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First post and thought I had

First post and thought I had to give my thoughts as to what made CoH such a great game.

Simplicity...... it was just fun. The community was so friendly too. I can't remember anyone ever being rude or obnoxious and teaming up, regularly with the same people but also with a myriad of others was what made it special as it was seamless, although going solo was a lot of fun too when you needed. I spent hours on it as did my 2 sons, in fact we still chat about it today they were 11 and 14 at the time and are now in their 20's and both are looking forward to CoT hopefully keeping all that was great about the original with their own twist.

I was Jack Frost back in the day. Hope to awaken as him again next year.

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The community, the combat

The community, the combat making you feel powerful, the base making, the custom creating. I loved it all.

Well accept for crafting. I never liked crafting when it came to MMOs. Back in the days when I played CoX I was too young to grasp the enhancement system. Just didn't click for me at the time. I imagine nowadays if I had a chance to go back I'd be a way better player then I was back then.

I have played countless MMOs since. Some I liked (Wildstar, TERA, CO) and others bored me after a while (WoW, GW2, and many others). I still have not seen one MMO do a necromancer class right. I loved my necromancer back in CoX.....

Formerly known as Bleddyn

Do you want to be a hero?

My characters

Gorgon
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What set CoH/V MM pets apart

What set CoH/V MM pets apart was that you could tend to the pets while they did the fighting. Almost every other MMO views pets as a nuisance, something to be treated as a short-lived DOT (damage over time spell) then it disappears, and you, the pet master, are expected to do the lion's share of pew pew directly.

In Champions, I have almost max pets, and they are really whimpy -- my gatling gun outdoes their damage by 4 to 1...all together.

I keep hammering home the real magic is the gameplay where you run support to your pets (heal, and debuff/hinder monsters) and do no pew pew at all.

I remember threads on the forums questioning if an MM can "get away with not taking any offensive powers", there being 3 in their primary sets. Well, yes, it was even more than viable as it gave you 3 extra choices from support pools instead.

This is the real evil mastermind. When Penguin or Riddler get down to hand to hand with Batman, it's too late and game over -- they failed managing their defeated minions.

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The very existence of the taunting tank irritates, for it requires idiotic AI that obeys the taunt.

Redlynne
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Gorgon wrote:
Gorgon wrote:

What set CoH/V MM pets apart was that you could tend to the pets while they did the fighting. Almost every other MMO views pets as a nuisance, something to be treated as a short-lived DOT (damage over time spell) then it disappears, and you, the pet master, are expected to do the lion's share of pew pew directly.
In Champions, I have almost max pets, and they are really whimpy -- my gatling gun outdoes their damage by 4 to 1...all together.
I keep hammering home the real magic is the gameplay where you run support to your pets (heal, and debuff/hinder monsters) and do no pew pew at all.
I remember threads on the forums questioning if an MM can "get away with not taking any offensive powers", there being 3 in their primary sets. Well, yes, it was even more than viable as it gave you 3 extra choices from support pools instead.

In City of Heroes, MOST of the Mastermind Builds took NO offensive personal Powers from the Primary. As a general rule of thumb, the 6 Pets did 2/3rds of the DPS throughput, while the Mastermind was responsible for the remaining 1/3rd of DPS production. But Endurance (and Time) spent attacking yourself was Endurance (and Time) that could not be devoted to supporting your Pets doing their thing.

Consequently, to my knowledge, the majority of Mastermind builds (including my own) eschewed the personal attacks in my Primary powerset entirely, so as to better focus on buff/debuff and utility (Presence Pool, in my case, to focus aggro onto my Mastermind and away from my rice paper thin Ninjas) and get the maximum effectiveness out of my "team" of Pets (and any other PCs that I just so happened to team up with). It was actually pretty rare to meet anyone who took the Mastermind Primary Powers for attacks. Some did, but they were a minority.


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Gorgon
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I don't think the designers

I don't think the designers envisioned that. It was a purely serendipitous discovery (like scrapperlock, which depends at least partly on bindable, combat-functional /follow).

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The very existence of the taunting tank irritates, for it requires idiotic AI that obeys the taunt.

All 4 Mutants
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For me? It was the powers and

For me? It was the powers and seeing what is coming next issue story wise. I am want to be told a story that is engaging, and a lot of the game gave me some stories that made me feel a part of the action and having added powers added was a bonus, while some were just a let down. Got excited when issue 10 came around and we went to war with the Ritki was fun( so much of my life was spent there), but got bummed out when they dedicated an entire issue to non-stories. After issue 20 I really started to get into it. I felt we were moving away from the classic story mix of the "golden age" of comics to the modern age where the threats were bigger and the enemies more akin to the two big comic companies. It really felt like everything was moving forward and in a big way and changes they did, while at the same time upsetting a few in doing so (death of Statesman) they showed they were really "growing up" in the way they were writing the stories. Hope that makes sense.

My hope is that this game will have and give that same thrill.

All 4 Mutants

Evolution is key. And mutants are key.

Little Red Ragnarok
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What made City of Heroes fun

What made City of Heroes fun for me was the sense of empowerment that you feel right out of the gate.

When I get the itch to roll a new character, the creative energy I spend gets me excited. This can be from a character concept (say, a Red Riding Hood themed-scrapper) to a power set combo. However, I want that momentum to build when I enter the game. In CoH, I can do that: either by street sweeping or running paper missions. Either way, I feel power when I'm fighting villains (even if they're just purse snatchers). I also get excited to level up for the first couple of levels, because that let's me see so my character develop. And, as I level, I feel even more powerful when I can jump into mobs of enemies (or stunlock them as a dominator, or snipe them one by one as a blaster).

Contrast that with Champions Online. The empowerment dies down when I'm in the game. For me, it's because leveling up feels like a chore at the beginning. I think the game's block mechanic is another depowerment; it's not fun to have to turtle and hide to avoid a LT's knockback and/or taking a lot of damage. I just don't feel as special in CO.

Second reason why CoH was fun was seeing what other character concepts that player's can imagine.

Redlynne
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Little Red Ragnarok wrote:
Little Red Ragnarok wrote:

This can be from a character concept (say, a Red Riding Hood themed-scrapper)

Red Hood's Revenge by Jim C. Hines.

Not your "usual" fairy tale ...

I recommend all four books in the series.


Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.
ckretmsage
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So our SG is down to 4. It

So our SG is down to 4. It always kinda was 4 for the last couple of years on COH anyways. We have all started playing The Elder Scrolls online. Last night running through our 2nd set of dungeons I asked "Why isn't this the whole game?"

The answer was, "Well we could do it over and over again..."

That was the best part of COH. With 6 plus years on it, I don't think I completed all of the story arcs. Sure some of them were the same-ish, with level design, but I rarely got bored.

Group missions done right! That's what I want.

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