So, does Gabby kick you to the curb when Burbank tells him that the Boss needs him?

Greyhawk wrote:

So...are we really going to see mad science inspired robots cleaning the streets and fire tanks keeping outdoor cafes warm? If so, that would be beyond awesome. That would be nothing short of miraculous, especially if some of those robots are player-designed and player-controlled. I can't even imagine the work it would take to program something like that into the game!

Makes for terrible superheroics if there's enough supers out there that this could be done. If it was easy enough to make that many robots.

This is why Marvel had House of M...millions of mutants everywhere ruins the story. No different here.

Brand X wrote:

Greyhawk wrote:
So...are we really going to see mad science inspired robots cleaning the streets and fire tanks keeping outdoor cafes warm? If so, that would be beyond awesome. That would be nothing short of miraculous, especially if some of those robots are player-designed and player-controlled. I can't even imagine the work it would take to program something like that into the game!

Makes for terrible superheroics if there's enough supers out there that this could be done. If it was easy enough to make that many robots.
This is why Marvel had House of M...millions of mutants everywhere ruins the story. No different here.

I agree that both Superhero power and population inflation really screw up beloved characters, story-lines, and "universes", but that's going to be hard to completely avoid in a massively multiplayer game where everyone makes a powerful hero.

And, luckily, it didn't ruin CoH, so it's doable.

OK, I'm up for an ice skating party on Lake Belldandy! Possibly in conjunction with an [I]Aa! Megami-sama[/I] themed costume contest. ^_^

Greyhawk wrote:

So...are we really going to see mad science inspired robots cleaning the streets and fire tanks keeping outdoor cafes warm? If so, that would be beyond awesome. That would be nothing short of miraculous, especially if some of those robots are player-designed and player-controlled. I can't even imagine the work it would take to program something like that into the game!

The cynic in me says that it's just a way for the writers to hand-wave the fact that snow will not pile up in the streets despite Titan City being located in Massachusetts. I could be totally wrong about that, but that's the first thought that entered my mind while reading. I'd love for the devs to prove me wrong by actually having snowy conditions during the winter.

The Doctor wrote:

Was the Ifrit mention a reference to Final Fantasy?

I think this is actually a reference to the IFRIT mercenaries described in [url=https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/missingworldsmedia/the-phoenix-project-city-of-titans/posts/645388]an older lore update[/url]. They're mercenaries who specialize in fire.

like the playstation [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RPrZfjeeOio]Powers Series[/url]? :)

Pleonast wrote:

Yay for weather! And dare I ask: hockey?

Oh god, you don't wanna know hockey. I'm pretty sure it's gonna be in the game, possibly as a PvP event. We got big hockey fans on the team.

Is there a way to compile the information that Gabby tells us into something less characterized? I'm not a fan of how he is written and the long drawn out way he explains things. Would it not be beneficial to just have some bullet point facts?

IFRIT was mentioned in an earlier update (during the actual KS):

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/missingworldsmedia/the-phoenix-project-city-of-titans/posts/645388

The tank in question is mentioned in that one. Being a portable heater wouldn't be a 'normal' job, no, but it's not completely out of the question (One way such an event could happen is if a restaurant decided the novely of hiring a powered person to do the job any propane-powered heater can do would attract enough business to be worth the fees paid. Another would be if the tank in question was simply eating there and decided he felt like warming the other patrons up for a bit, although addmitedly that's something you'd expect more out of a pure hero).

The word is from Arabic mythology (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ifrit Short version: a type of Jinn that uses fire) and has been used in other games, yes. No particular connection to other uses was intended.

.

warcabbit wrote:

We got big hockey fans on the team.

InB4 "Gone to the Americans!" becomes a [i]thing[/i] again.

I like the 'community service' idea; although I'd guess that a judge would mandate that it be done for something more community-oriented than a restaurant. The soup kitchen would be more appropriate.

The 'free food' angle is also a good one. While the laws of physics should dictate that a restaurant could more efficiently heat itself by burning food rather than feeding it to someone with thermal powers, this is a comic book universe, where the laws of physics only apply loosely :-)

Gabby updates are mostly about giving some idea of the "feel" of the city, especially in how it varies through areas. Just assume that while he might get you where you need to go, he may well be taking the scenic route to get there. Or rather... so many routes are scenic, if you have the right guide, that there is almost invariably a scenic route going where you want to go.

... or maybe we just don't tell you the stories of the boring cab rides. :)

They aren't deliberate "teasers" as to features, and there will almost certainly end up being *some* set of things described that either don't end up in the game at all because they prove to not be nearly as awesome as they sound, or aren't in there early due to resource limitations. That said, the authors do try to keep it to things that are at least on the "has not been specifically ruled out yet" list, since otherwise it would just be yanking people's (collective) chain. And as much fun as we might find it to be *hoof-wavery-wiggle* mysteeeeeerious *hoof-wavery-wiggle* we do *try* not to be outright jerks. Well, not in public, anyway. Mostly... okay, let's just leave it at "we know better than to deliberately do things we know will inspire torches and pitchforks, if only for our own self-preservation."

Oh, and four seasons? If we're going to bother, we should at least do something more complex than that. I can tell you how to do *that* one in about five minutes, the main cost being in terms of art asset variants. If you see that, assume (unless told otherwise) that it is at most a stepping stone. Four seaons. Pfaugh. Not even worth getting out of bed for. That's not *weather*, that's just... backdrop paintings. *Weather* is when the actors have to go change clothing before they can come hunt you down for subjecting them to it, after the show. :)

It might be useful to recognize that the cabdriver is only human and could be Mistaken.

Be Well!
Fireheart

Beamrider wrote:

We all know how cab drivers have a reputation for honesty and accuracy. :-)

You mean like the internet?

Darth Fez wrote:

I'd love to see other supers hanging out or doing stuff. It brings life to the city. I also expect that Titan City has lots of people who have superpowers of varying sorts but who choose not to be superheroes. The willingness and ability to help others, or the city, by warming a park or cleaning up the streets is quite a different affair from having the willingness and the ability to help others by fighting bad guys and putting one's life on the line.

I actually am not a big fan of this idea. given there will be THOUSANDS of supers running around, much less in a single city, I would rather not add to the over saturation of folks with super powers with a buncha no-name folks doing something that normal people can do with a lil tech help. heck, we don't have supers in the real world, that we know of, and I think we do a relatively good job. as such, why add something that really isn't needed?

that said, I could see perhaps a story, or two, involving such low powered folks. this would help show that there are indeed different power levels in the superpowered spectrum...from barely able to spark a match all the way to blowing up a star.

...just my wooden nickel.

Actually, if there's a "market" for it, even "high powered" (ie. PCs) supers could do commercial/community service work. All you'd need in game terms would be mission content directing Players to go and perform certain services ... such as the stuff the Gabby Cabby was describing. Rewards would be "low" but so would the risk. Might be a worthwhile "training ground" for new PCs.

When you say "get rid of headaches", do you mean the "ow, my head hurts" kind or the "my upstairs neighbor is playing music way too loudly again" kind?

Just curious, 'cause I'd be happy to have such a person hanging out in either case.

Interesting. Would "weather" make it harder to target enemies? Impact movement speeds? Cut down on your awareness? Don't just handwave seasons if the other weather conditions are just backdrops too. Improved art assets or not

The general consensus is that "ambient weather conditions" should not influence the game mechanics relevant to combat powers. They could potentially impact View Distance (ie. heavy fog or heavy rain or heavy snow), but that's probably as far as it would go. And obviously, any kind of "Ice Skating" movement on frozen bodies of water would "impact movement" in a very specific way (and in very localized places). But that's essentially the extent of it out in the wider world.

Darth Fez wrote:

When you say "get rid of headaches", do you mean the "ow, my head hurts" kind or the "my upstairs neighbor is playing music way too loudly again" kind?

Heh, I meant the medical condition, given that I'd think a non-super police officer could deal with the latter. :-)

Brand X wrote:

Which way is really right? Which is more fun? I always prefer to think we're supers and rare and not some dime a dozen, oh hey, we just rescued an apartment complex that didnt need rescued because they're all invulnerable or regenerative.

Aye, it's all subjective once we cross that line into such fiction, of course. To my way of thinking, that rarity works well in non-interactive entertainment or a single-player game where you can be The One. However, given that there will (hopefully!) be thousands of PC supers running about, I figure the uniqueness ship has already sailed, and thus my thought that in a world of so many supers there would logically be folks with only minor powers. YMMV, of course.

Brand X wrote:

whiteperegrine wrote:
Darth Fez wrote:
I'd love to see other supers hanging out or doing stuff. It brings life to the city. I also expect that Titan City has lots of people who have superpowers of varying sorts but who choose not to be superheroes. The willingness and ability to help others, or the city, by warming a park or cleaning up the streets is quite a different affair from having the willingness and the ability to help others by fighting bad guys and putting one's life on the line.

I actually am not a big fan of this idea. given there will be THOUSANDS of supers running around, much less in a single city, I would rather not add to the over saturation of folks with super powers with a buncha no-name folks doing something that normal people can do with a lil tech help. heck, we don't have supers in the real world, that we know of, and I think we do a relatively good job. as such, why add something that really isn't needed?
that said, I could see perhaps a story, or two, involving such low powered folks. this would help show that there are indeed different power levels in the superpowered spectrum...from barely able to spark a match all the way to blowing up a star.
...just my wooden nickel.

Agreed! Goes back to what I said...HOUSE OF M! There's a reason they got rid of them all...it makes for terrible story!

On one hand I agree to many Supers in one story or group of stories suck. However that not the case here we aren't following every super in the game just the one super the Player is Playing. So yes there are others out there but they have only minor part to Your character's story so we really don't have a House of M thing. The other Supers be more like Crossovers, temporary team ups, and just background characters (including and not limited to Rogue Galleries).

At least that what I take from the talks and info we got so far. the goal is Your character's story not a Sidekick/Henchman of one of the Paragons.

Brand X wrote:

Power corrupts!
But if they allow this, does this mean my villain can go around killing everyone of them in use in the city? :)
If one was to think along the lines that there are small time powers or even big ones who don't want to get in on the super thing, wouldn't it be more believable to have it be a very minor thing? If they're that common why wouldn't they then force those with powers into service?

Steering this back to the Community Service Using Superpowers angle for a bit, this sort of thing brings up once again the notion that Alignment Axes (Law, Honor, Peace vs Lawless, Dishonest, Violent) is something that shouldn't JUST be applied to PCs only ... it should also be used as something that informs the "fabric of society" in different parts of the City of Titans. Specifically:

In parts of the City that are high on Law, Honor and Peace, you have a (for lack of a better term) "heroic" part of the city where it is SAFE for civilians and commerce to flourish. In such places, you can easily envision a "Temp Powers For Hire" agency finding employment for people who are capable of "super-ordinary" feats.

In parts of the City that are high in Lawlessness, Dishonesty and Violence, instead of dealing with "above board" employment agencies (with licenses and everything), instead you're looking at [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impressment]press gangs[/url], street gangs, thugs, hoodlums, and riff-raff living a Lord Of The Flies existence where it's every man for himself. It's anarchy out there. There's no property rights beyond what you can "enforce" yourself in a [url=http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MightMakesRight]Might Makes Right[/url] part of town that is Dog Eat Dog, and where the basic assumption is [i]What's Mine Is Mine and What's Yours IS MINE TOO[/i].

Note that if you want to deal with ORGANIZED Crime, you need to go to a place that is Lawless, [b]Honorable[/b] and Violent ... think about it.

The point I'm making here is that it ought to be perfectly possible to justify having Use Of Powers As Community Service taking place for [i]different reasons in different parts of the City of Titans[/i].

In some parts of the city, it is gainful employment for law abiding citizens who do not disturb the peace.
In some parts of the city, it is an "obligation" to be performed in service to those more powerful that yourself.
And in some parts of the city, it is effectively a "slave trade" in which the strong prey upon the powers of the weak.

What's that? You thought that [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forced_labor][b]human trafficking[/b][/url] wasn't happening in your city?

Guess again, foolish mortal ...

Redlynne wrote:

The general consensus is that "ambient weather conditions" should not influence the game mechanics relevant to combat powers. They could potentially impact View Distance (ie. heavy fog or heavy rain or heavy snow), but that's probably as far as it would go. And obviously, any kind of "Ice Skating" movement on frozen bodies of water would "impact movement" in a very specific way (and in very localized places). But that's essentially the extent of it out in the wider world.

So, they're just improved art assets then. I'm all for that as long as it doesn't delay the development of real game play features. Streamline, then add pretty stuff after launch

I guess I am the odd man out, as usual.

I approach a MMORPG differently than I approach a console-based single player RPG. I never did much PnP roleplaying, only once or twice. It didn't really appeal to me. On the other hand, from the time I was able to read, and right up to the present, I was and remain a voracious reader of science fiction and fantasy. For me, a MMORPG is a fictional reality and my characters are fictional characters within that reality. I don't spend a lot of time questioning the fundamental rules of the reality in the same way that out here in the real world I don't spend much wondering why the sun rises in the morning and sets in the evening. I don't contemplate the meaning of life, or even the meaning of my life. Generally speaking I'm too busy living to question what life is all about.

If I encountered an outdoor café in a snowstorm with a primary fire-based person standing in the middle of the café providing heat and maybe with a secondary for force fields providing an invisible cover that keeps the snow off then the real me out here on the keyboard would think, "Oh wow, what a cool detail to add to the world!", but my character would keep right on running without even noticing because for the character it would just be an ordinary part of life in Titan City. I would not stop to figure out if the person providing heat and cover was an NPC or a player. If offered such a mission inside the game I would pass it up. I might pause long enough to take a screenshot, though.

In the same way, when I asked if player characters would be controlling the mad science clearing the streets it was more in jest than in serious consideration because programming such a feature would require a much larger expense than the entertainment value it may or may not provide. Clearing obstacles in an instanced mission as a requirement to complete the mission, on the other hand, adds a great deal of entertainment value, thus justifying the cost. I really enjoyed the winter event that CoX had every year. I enjoyed not knowing if that giant present would yield an angry snowman, a temp snowball throwing power, or an inspiration. Having a winter event that involved clearing snow off the streets would not have been entertaining for me at all. I've driven through blizzards out here in the real world far too often. I find no entertainment value in weather that has a negative effect on gameplay, not even something as simple as visibility reduction.

I don't expect my character to have a permanent impact on the story in the game. I don't expect my character to have the ability to destroy landmarks, block traffic, mug civilian NPCs, or have any real impact on the game world. In the example above of the character providing heat and cover, I would not expect to be able to interfere regardless of whether the character was an NPC or a player. There are potentially thousands of players running through the streets. Allowing them to vandalize the city or attack the citizens may or may not increase the entertainment value for the person performing such actions, but it will most definitely have a negative impact on other players. A MMORPG is a shared virtual reality. If one player is allowed to dominate the world it detracts from everyone else's enjoyment of the game. There is a small group of PvP players who would love a game where only one of them dominates and they have to constantly fight amongst themselves to achieve domination. I would point those players to Lineage II and let them play in that playground, one specifically designed to encourage such gameplay. It is at least partly due to how PvP is implemented in Lineage II that it has at least twice that I know of gone through a cycle of merging servers down to one then bringing them back. Even as I type these words Lineage II is probably on the verge of yet a third mass server merge.

One player dominating a MMORPG might be fun for the one who dominates, but no one sane is going to pay for the "privilege" of letting that one player abuse them.

CoX handled this situation quite well, I thought, especially on the villain side. Each player's character rose to the point where they challenged Lord Recluse and defeated him, but the world remained under his control in order for that player's alts to rise to the same challenge, for new players to rise to the challenge, and so on. The challenge did not change just because one of the characters a player controlled managed to defeat Lord Recluse.

These games (when well made) are indeed convincing virtual realities filled with challenge and triumph, but they are also shared virtual realities with real people filling in the roles of characters who live up to those challenges and achieve those triumphs. The primary job of any team developing one of these games is to find ways that maximize the entertainment value for a broad spectrum of real people who pay the bills to keep the game online and cover the salaries of the team.

The quickest way for a MMORPG to fail is to create a game mechanic that encourages and rewards elitism. Of the hundreds of games that I have personally seen fail, this aspect was present in most of them. As soon as one player or one guild owns everything, no one else has any reason to keep playing. If they aren't playing, they aren't paying, and if they aren't paying, the game world cannot afford to stay online.

I'm closer to X on this one.

The occasional mutant with the power to change toilet tissue any color or the lab janitor who accidentally got minor cold powers and now works cooling a meat wearhouse as comedy relief here and there are fine. But if powers become as common place as space heaters and smartphones and are used for such common purposes, well, it just makes them feel common.

And what's Super about common?

Any of you guys ever read Normalman?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normalman

This is a big part of the reason I ignore the game lore.
It's a lot easier to feel like my characters matter if I ignore most of the other heroes.

The biggest problem is crowding all of these heroes into one city.
yes the Marvel universe is mostly in New York but there are a lot of other locations too
and D.C. has always used a lot of fictional cities.
In my book "Knights of Saint George" I included details about 2 major cities
and numerous characters from other places around the world.

Yes, I put a theme park in Technopolis, where people with minor powers entertain the tourists
but I assumed people would come from far and wide to work there.
I wouldn't assume there were enough mutants from Technopolis to keep such a place running.

If super powers were that common, who would bother to create new technology?
Who needs hydrogen fuel cells if Dynamo Boy the 23rd can power the city for just above minimum wage?
And he'll do it for just above minimum wage too, because if he won't Electroman the 19th needs a job.

You know what the big difference is between superheroes and science fiction?
In science fiction you change the world, then explore the effects of those changes.
even small changes ripple through the world like the butterfly effect
but superheroes are supposed to defend the status quo.
they introduce all kinds of fantastic elements, but try to keep the world the same,
so normal humans can be the movers of history.
That's the reason everything is always so secret. So it won't effect everyday life.
Secret I.D.s are nothing compared to some of the stuff going on in some superhero worlds that ordinary people aren't supposed to know about.
Vampires, alien invasions, secret societies, government organizations.
it's really a lot like the Illuminati or the X-files.

So I ignore the game lore because I want to play a superhero game NOT a sci fi game.

Firegoat wrote:

So, does Gabby kick you to the curb when Burbank tells him that the Boss needs him?

Why are you asking us? I mean...who knows...

[size=5]what evil lurks in the heart of men[/size]

Empyrean wrote:

As I stated earlier, my point was simply that I thought they did a very good job in CoH and, I personally wouldn't want to see the commonness of Supers increased too much beyond what we saw in that game.

Also, some Supers that don't have what Others deem as very useful powers might be reluctant to place themselves in the public to be criticized or made fun of.

whiteperegrine wrote:

I have to agree with Brand X and Empyrean regarding how CoH handled it. my hope is that CoT follows that same line. if not, so it goes and I will continue to wait eagerly but it certainly kills some of the specialness of being a super powered hero.
IF this was to be brought into play, minor powered folks wandering about the city...I would suggest that they be mainly restricted to a specific part of the city. something along the line of how the books 'Wildcards' handled them...Mutant Town(???) or something along those lines. given the very nature of us humans, we hate and fear that which is different than ourselves...and people with super powers wandering about certainly qualifies. as such, it seems 'reasonable' that these low powered folks would congregate within a certain part of the city for relative safety and the ability to live a 'normal' life free of relative persecution. after all...not all the low level folks would have stunning good looks and many might be down right scarey lookin.
...although, I would still prefer my original suggestion. I like feeling special, sue me. :p

That reminds me a little of the Metahuman Bar that not so strong metas congregated at in Birds Of Pray.
[img]https://thenerdsuncanny.files.wordpress.com/2013/11/birds-of-prey-4fd28934b1fdd.jpg[/img]
Watch the TV Series if you can. I rented it from Netflix once, or twice. Alright.. it was 3 Times! :/

A nifty way to solve it, but something that would require a bunch of work, but be to have a bunch of supers doing casual things, but only if the online playerbase (or players nearby or whatever) was very small. So if I log in and I'm pretty much alone, there are still a bunch of supers around but they are just working.

The amount of casual supers would decrease as players came online. This could be a hint to the "firefighter by day, crimefighter by night" thing, since the two camps (npc casual worker supers vs player supers) would be level. More Players, less NPCs.

This way, it always feels like the city is populated by supers, but it never feels like it's overpopulated.

Just because electricity gets used to make [size=24][b][i]LIGHTNING!!![/i][/b][/size] doesn't mean it can't have commercial applications ... including [i]lighting[/i], transportation, computers and other bits of random mundanity in our modern world. Just because the "high power" version gets used by natural disasters and (capital s) [b]S[/b]upers doesn't mean there's no use for a "low power" version of the same thing which can promote health, wealth, comfort and security.

It's kind of like saying that because there's a Human Torch that homes are not allowed to have fireplaces and chimneys. Um ... no ...

There another angle to think about. Super Discrimination. People will have fear that those with powers will be hired because they have powers that can out do them. Even if the laws say they have to be expected to do the job at a normal level. If Barry Allen was known to be the Flash would he be expected to do more work because he can get more done faster? "Come on Barry we need that case processed. Yeah I know you shouldn't but this was that child murder case can't you know... speed things up?" Will people be afraid to hire a Superhero because of fear their Workplace be targeted by a Villain with a revenge motive?

Lets also look at the extremes supers. What I mean by this is not the HIGH Powers type like superman. But the physically altered beings like Thing, Beast, and animalistic types. Looking at normal human extremes they end up performing in Freak Shows or just have to deal with the looks and behavior of not fitting in. Dwarves, the bearded ladies, and the people with Ambras syndrome aka Hypertrichosis (Wolfmen).

Would a business really employ that catgirl? Even if the Law says they should? Would people really want to sit at a place heated by a Human torch?

Actually I'm not talking about where the powers come from IN any particular story.
I'm talking about the symbolism inherit in the genre as a whole.

I'm with Mendicant. Spiderman didn't seek to be a hero when he gained spider powers, it was the dying of Uncle Ben that caused it. Almost all the X-Men books and Mutant based stories are written with the idea they are feared and hated by the general public.

Even the DC universe the general population either Idealizes the Heroes or Fears them... okay there you might have a point. Marvel tends to have more of a tragic twist to their supers where DC has more if the Iconic Beings. Thought you still have tragic beings. Metamorpho comes to mind.

Once again. I'm not talking about the specifics of most of these stories. But the symbolic pattern is almost always the same.
No matter what else might take place along the way, by the end of the origin story (which is usually one issue) the hero has accepted his calling, and assumed his rightful responsibilities. That's why he's a hero and why we're even reading about him.

Jonah didn't do what God told him to at first either, (even in the end he wasn't happy about it) but he did what he was called to do.

Brand X wrote:

Superpowers are rare...that's why you don't tend to see Stan "The Lighting Man" Lee working in Hollywood. As has already been stated, Marvel did it, and it turned into such a bad idea we got House of M.
Yes, there might be those couple who do the non hero/villain thing, but it's rare.
Then we do go back to, don't want to be a super? Well Flash, guess how much delivery man pays? That's right, the same as everyone else and by the hour! :p Want to get involved with sports? Yeah, not enough super speedsters to make it work.
Same with super powered football. Just not enough of the right superpowers for such a thing. Same for MMA. There'd have to be so many supers in the world for anything to really center around many super powers...who you have to hope all have close to the same powers to make it entertaining.
Really think they'll let Flash race with the normal people in the Olympics? Guess who just won all the medals in the Olympics! That's right, Superman! :o
Super Strength going into construction? Did you watch 90's X-Men. That's just not going to go over well with the union.
And yes, bosses will expect more and they won't want to pay more just because you can do the job faster and they don't want you just standing around.

Just becasue Marvel screwed it up doesn't mean that it can't be done well.

A delivery person who can get hugely important package X from LA to New York in 2 minutes is going to be able to command a higher price than one that can only do Next-Day-Delivery. People pay extra for speed, particularly when time is critical. If your company closing a billion-dollar-deal depends on getting something across the country in under ten minutes, you're likely to pay a speedster a few grand to do it. And were not even touching on how much FedEx might pay to have a speedster as a corporate mascot.

Likewise, how much do you think telecommunication companies would pay to a teleporter who can simply teleport new satellites into orbit? How about agriculture to someone who can cause it to rain? Or how about someone with the power to control insects? They'd have a great business controlling bees for pollination.

Some of those jobs could very well be utilized to make mini-games.
A heavily snowbound street could be cleaned up by using a lot of different superpowers, everyone who helped gets some prestige and experience.
Missions to deliver stuff could pop up everywhere at random and could start a race. If it is completed it pays out depending how fast the player was.
I even would not mind if I could rescue old lady's cat's out of trees.
It does sound trivial but I remember there was almost always situations in City of Heroes where I had to wait or was not really in the mood or able to do some big mission. Like waiting for a teammate who went afk, as probably the most common example. In situations like this I did all sorts of stuff to keep myself busy. Flying, running, teleporting and jumping around, beating up grey trash mobs, playing around with emotes or powers... if there had been a street that needed cleaning or some delivery to be carried out, I would have done that too. And if done well, they could be even more fun than annoying your teammates with boredom induced silliness.

I'm thinking that the objections here are that people don't want the [b]setting[/b] to be absolutely overrun by superpowers happening everywhere all the time. This is a fair complaint, and also one that I agree with. I don't want to see refueling stations (the "Super Filler" chain?) be nothing more than NPC supers refining fuels out of nothing for pay at every corner store (and some Bar Stucks dispensaries). I don't want to see every building have an electrical super "plugged in" to it on the back wall, rather than being hooked up to the grid.

In other words, the presence of superpowers being used for commercial purposes [i]should not be a disruptive influence[/i] to the "normality" of mundane life in the City of Titans.

My take is that there is a level of "background noise" that is acceptable for using superpowers for accomplishing certain tasks, so as to maintain the head turning factor when it is seen. But by the same token, saying that there will be NO use of superpowers for what essentially amounts to mundane/muggle purposes is pretty much non-believable.

So there's a sort of "goldilocks" point here where use of superpowers for comfort/expediency reasons can be an interesting backdrop to the game's environment and provide an enrichment to the lore and immersion the game has to offer. That such a zone then points the way towards low risk/low reward content creation options that PCs could engage in themselves is just a bonus.

My three favorite comics were Spiderman, Haunted Tank, Werewolf by Night.

None of those are particularly divine.
All of them challenge normal definitions of right and wrong without drifting into vulgarity
None of the central heroes is perfect nor even close to being perfect
All of them primarily feature storylines that revolve around the hero completely screwing something up then spending the rest of the story fixing it
Of the three, only Spiderman is genuinely "superpowered", and in the comics, most of his skills come from gadgets and training, beyond "spidey sense", slightly better strength/dexterity, and climbing straight up walls, he really isn't all that "super".

In all three comics, there were other superpowered characters that popped into the story from time to time who used their powers in mundane ways.

It would very quickly get boring if every corner in town featured a low-level "super" doing something mundane. I completely agree on that point. However, I also think it would be pretty cool to once in awhile stumble across someone with low-level power doing something surprisingly ordinary, like keeping an outdoor café warm in winter or cool in summer, providing light for a "green energy" NGO headquarters, retrieving lost items at the beach, superspeed deliveries, or whatever. Not often, but once in awhile.

I like being surprised by a creative development team. I prefer MMORPGs to single player RPGs because the world is always much larger and in a good MMORPG, the world is filled with small surprises hiding in plain sight. Some players call them "easter eggs".

We can discuss theory, symbolism, and comics all day, but in the end (if it's successful) this will be a game with literally thousands of supers running about in one city. Given that situation, I don't see how the word 'rare' applies. To go back to CoX as an example, any super was one of thousands fighting enemy groups who, in the vast majority, had super powers of their own. I don't understand how folks can say that they felt unique in that situation but adding a handful of medium-powered NPCs in business or community service roles would suddenly shatter that feeling.

You could argue that by feeding the multitudes and walking on water, Jesus used his power for mundane purposes.
You could say the same thing about Elisha making the man's hammer float back to him.
But helping and teaching people isn't selfish, or petty.
If a superhero uses his heat power to clear the snow blocked streets, or his electric powers to help, during a blackout, that helps the whole community.

But using your powers to give yourself an edge, competing for a job.
Delivering something faster than UPS
Eliminating the need for technology,
Making the patrons of an outdoor cafe comfortable while homeless people might be freezing nearby.
All For Cash.

These things are selfish, they hurt ordinary people and they're wrong.
The gifts we have are not just for us but for everyone.
Using them selfishly or in a way that's petty reveals the character of a crass, greedy, small minded coward.
That's why it always leads to villainy.
If the person doing it isn't ambitious enough to become a real villain (probably too lazy and stupid even for that) you can be sure that he'll be taken advantage of by people who are.

Humans of every type are short minded and greedy by nature. It takes effort to learn not to be. Even when we have the best intentions at heart we don't always agree on the solution to a problem. A prime example is Prohibition, to reduce alcoholics and people dying from alcohol poisoning, and effects of being to drunk to drive, or respond safely. A very good reason, the result was disaster of epic proportions. Formation of Organized crime, increased in Alcohol related deaths. People however should be free to be foolish, trying to enforce morals for Moral sake is itself a path to Evil.

That is really another topic. We are speaking about our future Game and our future Virtual Home. A place where our creations our children of Imagination will live. How would having superpowers separate them from the normal population. Will there be laws forbidding them from using powers unless they are operating heroes? Will the guy heating a place with his powers be given a ticket? Or will social pressures be forcing them to use Powers even if they don't want to? Not everyone wants to stand and help the homeless making sure they are warm on a cold night.

"There are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamt of in your philosophy, Horatio."
- Hamlet

Just because networked Playstation consoles can be used for SETI projects and for ballistic missile command silos in need of computing power doesn't mean that a single Playstation console can't be used to play games for personal entertainment purposes by civilians.

It's called [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual-use_technology]Dual Use Technology[/url] for a reason. Quote:

Quote:

In politics and diplomacy, dual-use is technology that can be used for both peaceful and military aims.

More generally speaking, dual-use can also refer to any technology which can satisfy more than one goal at any given time. Thus, expensive technologies which would otherwise only serve military purposes can also be used to benefit civilian commercial interests when not otherwise engaged such as the Global Positioning System.

Now ... who here believes that superpowers cannot possibly fall into the category of Dual Use? That superpowers can be "military" purpose only, used merely for conflicts and combat ... ONLY ... rather than being used for peaceful civilian purposes AS WELL?

Quote:

Other technologies

In addition to obvious and headline grabbing dual-use technologies there are some less obvious ones, many erstwhile peaceful technologies can be used in weapons. One example during the First and Second World War, is the role of German toy manufacturers. Germany was one of the leading nations in the production of wind-up toys, the ability to produce large numbers of small and reliable clockwork motors was converted into the ability to produce shell and bomb fuses.

Wind-up toys ... to bomb fuses. [b]TOYS[/b] ... for tots ... makes good materials and skills for making military weapons ... and vice-versa.

From where I stand (and sit to type this), [b]ANYONE[/b] who refuses to accept the "Dual Use" nature of superpowers just isn't thinking things through enough. It isn't WHAT the powers are that makes their user a Hero or a Villain, but rather HOW THEY ARE USED ... on whose behalf (ie. selfishly or altruistically or for mercenary reasons).

Heck ... [b]FIRE[/b] is a Dual Use "technology" which can either be used to sustain life and increase health, wealth, comfort and safety ... or can be an instrument of terror and destruction (see: [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Tokyo]Fire Bombing Tokyo in 1945[/url]). Anyone want to claim that "control" of FIRE is a recent development and deny the existence of stone hearths, fireplaces and chimneys? Sure, a superpowered human might be able to manipulate fire in ways that a normal person can't ... but that doesn't automatically necessitate ipso facto that they must either be a Hero or a Villain, either fighting crime or causing it. A fire manipulator could easily be a consultant to the city fire department, or work in the special effects business for movies and cinema, or even just be a scoutmaster who doesn't need matches, flint & steel or forced friction to start a fire at a campout.

In other words, "super"powers can be quite ... mundane ... in how they get used. The thing is, nobody wants to play City of Mundanes where that's all that superpowers get used for. We want to have dramatic conflicts for high stakes and thrilling stories! You don't get that from "ordinary" everyday things.

Still ... use of Teleport Other would be great for getting stuff (including cats) out of trees without risking injuries from climbing those trees. Think about it.