Since the release of our Avatar Builder sneak peek video, we have had people ask how much muscular definition was possible. As you can see, the answer is "A Lot."
If you haven't checked out the original video, or would just like to watch it again, you can find it here: https://cityoftitans.com/content/where-we-stand-avatar-builder
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Wait until you see the... nope, that would ruin the surprise.
Not a question I've asked, but I like the results :) Showing the line between the pectoral sections and shoulder sections.
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[color=red]PR, Forum Moderator[/color]
[url=http://cityoftitans.com/forum/desvipers-creative-impulsivity]My Non-Canon Backstories[/url]
Avatar by MikeNovember
#thicc
Yeeeees. This is excellent for my main character, Scaleback.
An infinite number of tries doesn't mean that any one of those tries will succeed. I could flip an infinite number of pennies an infinite number of times and, barring genuine randomness, they will never come up "Waffles".
Not a "top five" priority for me either but it does look good and it's cool the CoT character creator is capable of something like that. Gives me hope for a wide assortment of other possible physical sizes/details.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
Just being able to display various ranges from "toned" all the way out to "buff" and back to "rolly-polly round pudgy" will be incredibly helpful in differentiating our PCs. It doesn't have to be JUST fat ... now it can be muscles.
[center][img=44x100]https://i.imgur.com/sMUQ928.gif[/img]
[i]Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.[/i][/center]
And that was one of our thoughts as well. There is a ... traditional... look to females in Comics. We wanted to show that other options would be available.
Wait until you see the... nope, that would ruin the surprise.
I actually wasn't thinking of only females or even the "traditional" (let's be blunt here: top-heavy bimbo) way superheroines are typically depicted in Comics. I was actually thinking of other kinds of characters I'd like to make that I think CoT will allow for like "old hag/witch" types and/or just plain "fatty-fluffy" types.
Now don't get me wrong - I do in fact want to be able to make "Power Girl" clones in CoT as well and will be disappointed if the creator will not allow for it. To be crystal clear I want the creator to be able to provide as WIDE a range of body types (both male and female) as possible. I plan to make ALL kinds of characters both "traditional" and "non-traditional". Heck, I'll probably eventually make at least one that looks like your muscled example above just because. ;)
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
Now you are just making me excited even more for the character creator.
"Science is the gift of humanity that we all should treasure."
she hulk comes to mind
I do not want to mess with the lady in that picture.
While it's true you can find some official versions of She-Hulk that look like this:
[img=400x400]https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_small/0/3664/194734-7084-114477-2-avengers.jpg[/img]
More often she's drawn like this:
[img=250x250]https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/S/cmx-images-prod/Item/73329/DIG016684_1._SX1280_QL80_TTD_.jpg[/img][img=250x250]https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/dbxfanon/images/5/50/She-Hulk.png/revision/latest?cb=20160717162542[/img][img=250x250]https://i.pinimg.com/236x/15/0c/06/150c06d16b186aaf6aaa5399b45315a8--marvel-graphic-novels-hulk-marvel.jpg[/img]
[img=500x500]http://nerdbastards.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/she-hulk.jpg[/img]
Which I think tends to keep her squarely in the "traditional" camp as defined by JWBullfrog.
For what it's worth I'll be happy to be able to have the option to create characters either way.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
That's brilliant! I'm getting a whole Russian weightlifter vibe off her. Not sure if she's a villain or a hero that some minion is just now regretting having attacked.
Spurn all ye kindle.
That's a promising clue to the flexibility of the avatar builder. Also good to see that the shadows are looking quite believable.
Are you guys working on the hovering?
I've noticed in a lot of the CC images the character has a tendency to hover just off the ground. In this image in particular her toes are about an inch off the ground and the heels look like they are maybe half an inch up.
My only other critique is that the hands seem not to scale very well. The wrist and hand seem too small for the rest of the body. Is there a slider for overall hand size? Is it working?
Second Chance: https://store.missingworldsmedia.com/CityOfTitans/SecondChance/
Dev Tracker: http://cityoftitans.com/forum/fixing-dev-digest
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With muscles like that, I know one particular concept I have from CoH, remade in CO, that will be remade once again in CoT: The Yellow Unitard.
I like that name and will subscribe to the comic book.
Zarya from Overwatch comes to my mind.
Not many female characters in comics or video games with a linebacker build that I recall.
Not many female characters in video games and comic books with a body type other than super model, lets be real.
"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."
Realistically, one would have to ask, would it sell?
As the lone option. I'm not so sure. Some copies for sure, but enough it wouldn't get cancelled, not so much.
Part of a team, for sure.
Though, I'm not sure I would call the typical look of a superhero a top heavy bimbo as Lothic said, but maybe that's because it seems a bit mean to assume top heavy and fit means bimbo. :p I'd say the typical look is super model.
Well regardless of your working definition of "bimbo" versus "supermodel" I think it would be safe to say that most females in comic books are still closer to EITHER being bimbos and/or supermodels than they are to something like Zarya from Overwatch. ;)
Most real life supermodels tend to be waifish/willowy girls that wouldn't weight 100 pounds soaking wet and (to be completely honest) are usually relatively flat chested:
[img=400x400]https://media.guestofaguest.com/t_article_content/gofg-media/2017/09/1/49669/screen_shot_2017-09-22_at_7.59.44_pm.png[/img][img=500x500]https://antm411.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/c14.jpg[/img]
On the other hand many (most?) females in comics tend to be a bit more developed muscle-wise and obviously don't lack in the being universally top-heavy department:
[img=300x300]https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51Ev2ZBcQbL.jpg[/img][img=300x300]https://images.gr-assets.com/books/1521897366l/630623.jpg[/img]
[img=300x300]https://thanley.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/wwbolland721.jpg[/img][img=300x300]https://d1466nnw0ex81e.cloudfront.net/n_iv/600/981347.jpg[/img]
So does the difference between "bimbo" versus "supermodel" boil down to whether an otherwise attractive woman is flat chested or not? I'll let the peanut gallery decide that one. It's sort of a minor quibble either way as far as I'm concerned. ;)
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
Still wouldn't classify bimbo just because she has big breasts. :p Pin up model maybe instead of super model. Though, looking back, I'm probably thinking of someone like Tyra Banks and such models.
Sure not all real life models are flat chested. IRL there's always going to be examples of models that range from being fully flat to amazingly huge.
I was just trying to make the point that [b]MOST[/b] real life supermodels tend to be waifishly thin while practically [b]ALL[/b] comic book females are drawn with "Double-Ds" as a bare minimum. This is why the first word I think of when I think of "comic book females" is -not- supermodel. Maybe "pin-up model" would be an overall better term/analogy. *shrugs*
Regardless I still have no problem using the admittedly derogatory term "bimbo" in relation to most comic book females because to me the term "bimbo" implies a woman who's nearly impossibly voluptuous IRL unless she's had major amounts of silicone either injected and/or implanted into various parts of her body. ;)
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
I'm not an expert, but "bimbo" generally heavily implies stupid and incompetent. I'd go with "idealized" for most superheroines.
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[color=red]PR, Forum Moderator[/color]
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Avatar by MikeNovember
Bimbo sounds kinda rude, even to me as a non-native.
[font=courier][color=#FF0000]Tech[/color][/font]
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I'll certainly grant you that using "idealized" as a term to describe typical comic book females is at least diplomatic. ;)
For what it's worth I did say the term "bimbo" was "admittedly derogatory". In this case my "negativity" is not a comment on any given character's mental capacities but just the generally accepted hypocrisy that they are more often drawn like this:
[img=300x300]https://d1466nnw0ex81e.cloudfront.net/n_iv/600/983095.jpg[/img]
Than this:
[img=200x200]https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/familyguy/images/4/4b/FGuy_Meg_Gen2012_R3Flat.jpg[/img]
I actually intended for the use of the term to be "rude" at least as far as an acknowledgment of the (again) generally accepted institutionalized sexism involved.
Basically if comic book artists don't want me to call their women "bimbos" they shouldn't be typically drawn AS "bimbos".
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
dictionary says "a beautiful but unintelligent female"
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[color=red]PR, Forum Moderator[/color]
[url=http://cityoftitans.com/forum/desvipers-creative-impulsivity]My Non-Canon Backstories[/url]
Avatar by MikeNovember
I don't deny that strict definition. Again if the comic book artists didn't want their females to be "mistaken" for the STRICT DICTIONARY definition of "bimbos" they shouldn't draw them that way. *shrugs*
That's literally the point for why I'm using the term "bimbo" here in the first place. I'm collectively insulting the artists for their institutionalized sexism.
Look, I'm not being completely silly or naive here. I realize that ultimately "sex sells" so I'm not shocked/surprised that the artists are drawing their characters to be as sexy as they can get away with. I'm just poking fun at the fact that EVERY LAST female is drawn like a playboy centerfold with barely the hint of an "average" looking woman among them.
It's not that there couldn't (or even shouldn't) be a few "super-hot 10+" superheroines from time to time. The "joke" here is that [b]ALL[/b] of them are drawn as Aphrodite level goddesses. Even JWBullfrog understood this when he knowingly said, "There is a ... traditional... look to females in Comics".
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
I agree. A traditional look. I just never thought of that look as bimbo. Saying that, implies every beautiful woman is a bimbo. I just never thought traditional look meant stupid. Bimbo means stupid. Idealized sounds right though. As for why so many would have a more idealized look, which even in the comics, they generally say there are those who look more beautiful.
For instance in DC, Wonder Woman is supposed to be one of the most beautiful women on the planet. Though, I'd always argue, not every artist makes her that way. Kinda like how people would say "My CoH character is one of the best looking in the world" and they really weren't good with the sliders :p
LoL! Yeah, that's why it is best to just make your character and let your audience develop their own opinion, rather than telling them what their opinion is supposed to be.
Well, the problem with that, is concepts.
"I'm a highly paid super model."
"No way. You look like someone hit you with the ugly stick and then hit you more!"
Again I get that the term "bimbo" carries the strong connotation that a woman in question is stupid. How many times do I have to say I specifically used that term because I intentionally wanted to be derogatory to the "traditional" look of comic book females? An easy way to insult someone's artwork is to say their collective female characters look like a bunch of airheaded cookie cutter bimbos. It's simplistic and straightforward.
If I was being more serious here I could easily accept "idealized" as a more diplomatically descriptive term. Problem is that I wasn't being very serious to begin with. ;)
Again I'm not saying there should never be "super hot" looking superheroines in comic books. In fact it might even be reasonable to assume that on average people with super powers are going to be "above average" in most respects so the idea that many of them would -also- be better than average looking would go hand-in-hand.
Despite that I'm still going to make fun of the notion that almost literally EVERY SINGLE super powered female in comic books is "traditionally" drawn as if they're supposed to be the single most beautiful woman on the planet. In a room of 20 randomly selected women having one or two of them be Aphrodite level hot is plausible; having ALL 20 of those women turn out to be equally goddess-level beautiful is simply a joke. All I'm doing is poking fun at that joke.
Even I never had enough hubris to claim any of my CoH characters were supposed to be among the best looking in the world. The graphics quality available back in 2004 only went so far. ;)
With CoT giving us far more slider control options than CoH allowed for it will be interesting to see just how "good looking" we'll be able to make characters in this game.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
[img]https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/001/625/135891.jpg[/img]
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[url=http://cityoftitans.com/forum/desvipers-creative-impulsivity]My Non-Canon Backstories[/url]
Avatar by MikeNovember
Desviper has the best comment in this thread.
Except that I'm still afraid he's going to overuse his new toy. I suggested that he try to limit himself to once or twice a week since if he uses it too often the "joke value" will wear off and he's just going to annoy everyone with it.
I'll give him credit that he managed to contain himself a bit since it's been at least a few days since the last time he burped it out. Again I think he needs to save it for special occasions in order to avoid making him look more stupid than he already does. Just trying to help him out here. ;)
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
[img]https://media.tenor.com/images/c7dd67eeaf1c110af45bd962f02d98c4/tenor.gif[/img]
Hmmmm ...
[img]https://thumbs.gfycat.com/ZanyHeartyGraysquirrel-size_restricted.gif[/img]
[center][img=44x100]https://i.imgur.com/sMUQ928.gif[/img]
[i]Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.[/i][/center]
OK I'll bite... I truly have no clue what you're on about with this. I like Lynda Carter's version of Wonder Woman as much as anyone but I'm not really sure what we're supposed to "think" about in reference to her. *shrugs*
I'll let you better explain what I suspect YOU might be trying to dredge up here...
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
Just to clarify, you can’t draw a woman to be dumb. Stupidity isn’t about appearance. You can write a woman to be stupid, but that’s irrelevant to a discussion about appearance.
Supermodels aren’t all dumb. Cindy Crawford, for example, was her high school valedictorian and received an academic scholarship to study chemical engineering at Northwestern University, but dropped out to pursue a modeling career (which seemed to work out in the long run).
It’s one thing to encourage diversity in the appearance of female comic book superheroes, but it’s another to equate intelligence and appearance.
I think many illustrators would disagree, but you'd stuggle to create a toon in the CharGen to be obviously stupid so I getcha there.
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[color=red]PR, Forum Moderator[/color]
[url=http://cityoftitans.com/forum/desvipers-creative-impulsivity]My Non-Canon Backstories[/url]
Avatar by MikeNovember
Like Mater in Cars!
So, I like muscles on females and on males and on dogs, too. 'Bimbo' is also a brand-name for bread.
I also like healthy curves on a lady. My culture does teach its children that a tall, generously curved female is most attractive and should not be expected to be smart. I, personally, find that it's very easy for 'generous' curves to go overboard and become a handicap. I might still like to LOOK at such, but I wouldn't want to BE it. The character creator in CoT appears to be able to make characters that I would like to be.
Artists seem to have a bias toward drawing figures that people like to look at. It sells. That's how artists make money. Does it propagate the stereotypes? Sure, but that's how culture works. It tells us what we're supposed to like, by default.
Arguing about it is a fine way to spend the winter, but, in the Spring, the males are going to slaver after young/tall/curvy females.
They're the ones who make the men say 'Whaarrgarble!'
Be Well!
Fireheart
Well expect me to be in game with more athletic builds ;p
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[color=red]PR, Forum Moderator[/color]
[url=http://cityoftitans.com/forum/desvipers-creative-impulsivity]My Non-Canon Backstories[/url]
Avatar by MikeNovember
TBH, I really never expected anyone to bother quibbling over my use of the term "bimbo" in the context of the typical comic book female.
As you implied you can't really "draw stupidity" so I never intended to focus on that half of the "definition" of bimbo at all. I was obviously focusing on the VISUAL aspect of the term because when looking a picture of a comic book female the VISUAL aspect is all you have to work with anyway.
Can we please collectively move past the semi-strange idea that I cared whether the average comic book female was "smart" or not? It really should have been crystal clear that I only cared about the visual "overtly sexy" aspect of bimboism here.
As I already pointed out "sex sells" so I don't have a problem with the fact that comic book females get drawn in a (as Zapp Brannigan would say) "sexfully" way.
Again I was just making the social commentary that I consider it funny that almost EVERY SINGLE LAST female that appears in comics is drawn in the "typical" (semi soft-core porn?) sort of way. There are apparently no "average" looking women in comic book settings. It's akin to having 20 Miss Universe winners all in the same room at the same time - it's possible that [b][i]might[/i][/b] happen someday but it's not incredibly likely. ;)
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
I intend to create characters (both male and female) spanning the entire spectrum of body types. I'm going to push the limits of what the character creator will allow for. :)
I might even make a "Captain Bimbo" character that will be "overtly sexy" AND "stupid" just so that it'll make everyone happy that I finally used that term "properly". ;)
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
I always thought Big Bertha of the Great Lakes Avengers was pretty awesome. Both in appearance and concept.
[youtube]G6PBhdM9Ftg[/youtube]
[center][img=44x100]https://i.imgur.com/sMUQ928.gif[/img]
[i]Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.[/i][/center]
Good vid. Totally forgot the notion of there being "no unattractive women" was covered in that film. :)
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
[url=https://grrlpowercomic.com/archives/comic/grrl-power-138-superheroines-in-the-locker-room/][img]https://grrlpowercomic.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/2013-04-22-GP0138.jpg[/img][/url]
[url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_HUdf89hI8]Send out your signal, call in your hero
I kidnapped his lady, now his power's are zero.
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I think that just proved the point.
Good thing I'm not the only one who thought of Grrl Power.
Wait until you see the... nope, that would ruin the surprise.
I think of Grrl Power every day. *grin*
Be Well!
Fireheart
Y'all nasty
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[color=red]PR, Forum Moderator[/color]
[url=http://cityoftitans.com/forum/desvipers-creative-impulsivity]My Non-Canon Backstories[/url]
Avatar by MikeNovember
Nah, that's Xuriel!
Be Well!
Fireheart