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Agreed, 0 in the middle, positive numbers to the right and negatives to the left. Just like adjusting color balance in a graphics program.
Zero is not a number, away with your Arabian fantasies.
Sliders should be properly numbered with perhaps L in the middle, and could go from XX to LXXX.
I will accept a Grecian version where all sliders are locked to one value which overall provide the archetypal perfect human form. This would also mean you can stop all that unnecessary development on female avatars, so it looks like a win all round.
I actually would not put it past them. These Devs frankly have "silly" ideas from time to time. ;)
The only "problem" with that is that half of the slider click values would be negative (presumably left of the "zero" origin). That's not technically a "problem" in the strictest sense, but it would probably be weird from the point of view of how that would appear on the character creation GUI. Besides what would a "negative slider value" even mean? That would probably raise more questions than answers.
My reasoning for "50" being the "standardized middle" of the slider values is that is basically most dials/sliders traditionally go from "1 to 10" (unless you're [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/This_Is_Spinal_Tap]Spinal Tap[/url]). The idea of "50" being like "50 percent" is just a standard mental concept most people can readily understand. With "50" being the middle that gives the Devs plenty of room for clicks to both the left and right of that which would be simple two-digit numbers which makes it easy for text formatting on the GUI.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
I am back from my cruise, you can go ahead and launch whenever you are ready, thank you for holding off.
PS: I got some great character ideas while downing 7 shots and other assorted drinks at Senior Frogs in Cozumel. Great research trip.
Amusingly zero as the middle was something I was just talking to Warcabbit today about! Loving it!
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[color=#FF0000]Senior Developer/Project Manager/Co-Founder... and then some.[/color]
I know this won't be part of it but it would be nice to have a second set of numbers that shows the total appendage length. For example, the arm slider, whether its 0-99 or 1-100 or whatever doesn't matter, you would get a second number like 3 units. In my mind units would be like feet. That number would change based on the slider. The ONLY reason I think that would be nice is so you can set forearms, hands, arms, shoulder width, legs, thighs, etc, etc, etc, to ratio's that you find in real life. For example, if you like your own body build IRL, you can measure your arm length, height, etc etc etc and apply those ratios to the game. My reasoning is 1.) it would just be cool to me and 2.) it might help in making accurate proportions. Even if this might not be 'difficult' to do from a technical standpoint I know it's not worth the devs time. heck, I would even vote against it if there was something else they could work on. but i still think it would be cool. Using the numbers from the sliders wouldn't work because all of the limbs are going to have different lengths that you don't know to begin with, so if the arm is preset to neutral (say, 50 on a 0-99 scale) you don't know the arm length, only how much you add to or take from the length.
Compulsively clicking the refresh button until the next update.
Just speaking for myself, I would never utilize this and the extra numbers would just be an annoyance.
So what does a negative slider value represent? Why bother with accounting for the negative sign in your text formatting?
Just based on your own pic:
[img=300x300]https://cityoftitans.com/sites/default/files/slider%20image%202wm.jpg[/img]
It doesn't look like that was the way you guys were going with this regardless. This pic implies a "1 to 100" range and "50" as the midpoint based on how the slider is slightly to the right of the middle and the value shown is "58".
Ultimately I'd rather have these sliders have a "common middle origin" point so if that point is made to be "zero" I'll get used to it. But having "negative slider values" does in fact defy convention when it comes to games like this. I'll be happy to entertain anybody who can provide examples of any other game that has done that with its character creator.
Using "50" as the common origin point of all sliders allows you to avoid negative values and is literally just as "arbitrary" as using zero for this.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
Hm. Something about proportions is not the worst idea in the world. Something like 'normal body range' and 'out of normal body range' - if we can figure a clean way to do it - maybe a paper doll in the background - but it wouldn't be there in first pass, sorry, folks.
... but there's something big coming that'll BLOW your MINDS. If, uh, it continues to work. (it is brand new as of tonight and BOY it looks good.)
[color=#ff0000]Project Lead[/color]
C’mon ‘cabbit, that just ain’t fair...
Meh. Its strictly QoL so it's pretty far down even the QoL list. I wont be sad if I never see it....would just be a cool feature.
Compulsively clicking the refresh button until the next update.
Yeah 'cabbit, keep us all riled up for a whole month :(
[hr]
[color=red]PR, Forum Moderator[/color]
[url=http://cityoftitans.com/forum/desvipers-creative-impulsivity]My Non-Canon Backstories[/url]
Avatar by MikeNovember
The original sliders had a different indicator that was able to show negative values. Center at zero was representing "average" or "normal" and +/- relative to that was to indicate above or below normal.
As for the limb length indicator we could put something like that in the tool tips for each slider. Length/average circumference might not be a bad idea. Obviously not an immediate priority but might be possible in the next iteration.
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[color=#FF0000]Senior Developer/Project Manager/Co-Founder... and then some.[/color]
Thx for the update and the amazing work on the creator. With all the discussion so far a question propped up for me.
Are the slider ticks in proportion to one another? Say if i change the body height slider 5 ticks down and the rest of the sliders for arms and co too, would the body have normal proportions again? Or would the hands still be to large or something like that?
Add mine as a vote for 0 in the middle, with -/+ to either side.
As a second option, Lothic's suggestion of bars being 1-100 with a median of 50, and then ticks set above and below as necessary is also a good solution. But given my druthers, I like the 0 median option.
~ DariusWolfe
Errant, TNT, Vibrant and Fluxion on Liberty
This makes much more sense to me than anything else.
This would be a nice feature but not a necessity.
"A sad spectacle. If they be inhabited, what a scope for misery and folly. If they be not inhabited, what a waste of space." ~ Thomas Carlyle
There might be a few physical body model sliders where expressing the concept of being "above" or "below" average makes sense. But how does that apply to a jaw slider, or an eyebrow slider, or heck even really to something like a leg slider? What are the determining factors for deciding if ANY physical trait is above or below "normal"? Basically there is no fundamental "need" to express any slider in negative values. That's why the Unreal Engine itself doesn't use negative values for their sliders.
Just as a reminder I didn't exactly pull the idea to have "50" be the median center origin for the sliders completely out of my ass. As I implied it's actually based on how the Unreal Engine uses that value as its own fundamental mid-point for sliders.
As [url=https://cityoftitans.com/comment/166944#comment-166944]avelworldcreator himself reminded us[/url] the underlying slider UI element in the Unreal Engine is a simple decimal value between 0 and 1. This effectively means that 0.5 (or "50%" or just "50") is in fact the natural midpoint value for sliders in Unreal. No disrespect to avelworldcreator or warcabbit but frankly I'd rather use the mid-point value established as precedent by the people who professionally created the game engine MWM is using for CoT.
Also for what it's worth I see that no one has managed to offer an example of another game that actually uses negative values and/or zero as a mid-point origin for their character sliders. This is because it clearly goes against the convention most game Devs apparently stick to for this situation.
Look I get that zero may otherwise [b][i]SEEM[/i][/b] like a reasonable arbitrary value for this. But in realty it really isn't because it goes AGAINST what the Unreal Engine has established and I would hope that the MWM Devs don't dismiss what I'm saying about this "just because".
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
Based on what the Devs here have said it looks like every slider in the game will have different numbers of "ticks" based on what's appropriate for the individual slider. So for example:
The arm length slider might have 50 tick positions
The leg length slider might have 80 tick positions
The head size slider might have 30 tick positions
The hand size slider might have 40 tick positions
and so on...
This means that the degree of change between one tick of a given slider may be relatively larger or smaller than the same tick difference of another slider. Because of this no one slider will really have any "proportional relationship" to any other slider. This is actually another reason why having "negative valued tick marks" is effectively pointless/meaningless but I digress.
Having the ability to "lock/unlock" each slider in place will be critically important - once you get one slider set the way you want you'll have to adjust others around it in order to get the look you're going for.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
Every update makes a day good.
This slider business is all "inside the box" thinking, to me. Why constrain ourselves to integers? Why rational numbers even? I say we make everything a complex number between -2*pi +17i and +3*pi + 13i, just make things abundantly clear...
:P
Edit: Fun fact, it's possible to use Hamiltonian 4D vectors called quaternions to do computer graphics. He invented them so that you could easily represent a rotation about a given axis in 3D with an exponential function. In 4D, vectors lose commutativity, which makes things a lot more "fun".
R.S.O. of Phoenix Rising
I told one of the kids I was tutoring that, "If it's round, there's Pi in it." She was so happy!
Be Well!
Fireheart
Well you could still have a "proportional relationship" if you do use the same factor, for example:
The arm length slider might have 60 tick positions
The leg length slider might have 90 tick positions
The head size slider might have 30 tick positions
The hand size slider might have 45 tick positions
and so on...
You would just have to do more ticks for one part then the other.
Perhaps, but that would pretty much completely rely on whether or not the Devs are shooting to even try to have all these sliders be "interrelated" like that.
I wouldn't assume what you're suggesting here would be impossible, but I would speculate getting everything to "work out" like that would be impressively difficult and I would legitimately question whether it would be worth the overall effort. For one thing the Devs have already confirmed they have over 100 sliders accounted for - would you be suggesting that ALL of them be factorially related to each other or if not which subset would be and which wouldn't?
Your idea here is worth thinking about. I'm just not sure how feasible it would be. Perhaps a Dev could chime in with some actual info one way or the other.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
I think it would only matter for the most obvious proportions. Head, torso, arms, legs, hands, feet. I don't think the mass or bulk slider would profit from it. ;)
Funner fact: The Mad Tea Party scene in Alice in Wonderland is a description of quaternions.
[color=#ff0000]Project Lead[/color]
What about a silhouette outline overlay (I'm thinking white line) of a "standard human proportions" which you can click on and off using a toggle, which then gives you a "visual guide" for how to make your character fit within (and without) standard human proportions ... would that work?
[center][img=44x100]https://i.imgur.com/sMUQ928.gif[/img]
[i]Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.[/i][/center]
Wait, "clean cup, clean cup, move down" is a math equation? Why did they never try to explain it to me this way in school?
Wait until you see the... nope, that would ruin the surprise.
I wonder if I could make a motie from "A mote in gods eye"?
4 armed with the upper left larger for brute strength.
All sliders should go to 11!
FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)
[youtube=500x300]4xgx4k83zzc[/youtube]
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
But then Nigel would tell us we can't even look at them.
Spurn all ye kindle.
Without going into more detail, please don't have "average" then negative values for less than average. However, I do think it'd be helpful to constrain within reasonable human proportions.
[hr]
[color=red]PR, Forum Moderator[/color]
[url=http://cityoftitans.com/forum/desvipers-creative-impulsivity]My Non-Canon Backstories[/url]
Avatar by MikeNovember
I have a physics equation I've been working on that I've described at one point with a Hamiltonian matrix. And his famous equation concerning quaternions is still literal graffiti on the side of a bridge. Yes, I'm a math and physics geek.
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[color=#FF0000]Senior Developer/Project Manager/Co-Founder... and then some.[/color]
I thought they were three armed! I know there was a sequel I've read called "The Gripping Hand".
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[color=#FF0000]Senior Developer/Project Manager/Co-Founder... and then some.[/color]
I still can't think of any other game's character creator that deals in negative values for its sliders. I'm certainly willing to hear of any examples I'm obviously unaware of at the moment.
There are at least several legitimate text formatting reasons against using negative values sliders, but based on desviper's post here I thought of another good reason against negative values just now. In this age where we all have to be careful about not spreading or imposing negative body image stereotypes I don't think this game is going to want to be throwing around terms like [color=red]above or below normal[/color] in reference to body sizes. The last thing we need is people who are sensitive about being smaller than "normal" or larger than "normal" to get upset with the game's use of terms like "average/normal" and having "negative" numbers in relation to that.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
you are right, I need to go back and reread that. its a very good read.
You may have been thinking of the watchmakers, a miniature four-armed version with limited sapience.
Foradain, Mage of Phoenix Rising.
[url=https://cityoftitans.com/forum/foradains-character-conclave]Foradain's Character Conclave[/url]
.
Avatar courtesy of [s]Satellite9[/s] [url=https://www.instagram.com/irezoomie/]Irezoomie[/url]
I'm definitely interested! ❤️ ????
I love math and physics, but I really need to read more about certain topics :P
[font=courier][color=#FF0000]Tech[/color][/font]
45 52 52 4F 52 3A 20 34 30 34 0D 0A 48 65 72 6F 20 6E 6F 74 20 66 6F 75 6E 64 21
Um, this is a superhero game. Labels about "abnormality" and such are impossible to ignore. After all, it is about superhumans. The genre is based around such labels. That isn't a real argument at all. Someone too sensitive about those labels would have no desire to play a game like this.
Having 0 in the middle isn't ideal, they should start at 1 at the bottom and go to some max number. All character creators I've ever seen that number their sliders work that way. The only reason to have 0 in the middle is if you want to have some easy way of getting back to a center point or "average" easily. What you don't want is a ridiculous scale like 34-66 just to put 50 in the middle. That is going to confuse the heck out of people.
The point was there is no need to even introduce the ideas of "normal", "average", or anything being "above or below" those things when it comes to body sliders. As you aptly point out this is a superhero game so what does labeling something as "normal" or "average" even mean? Having negative values for these sliders only reinforces the idea that certain settings are "negative" whereas others are "positive".
Having slider values be only positive numbers keeps this entire issue moot and neutral - nothing would be "normal" or "abnormal".
Yes but most of the time ALL the sliders for a given game also keep to the same uniform scale (i.e. 1 to 100). Unfortunately the Devs here have said that will not be the case for CoT so we're apparently going to have different scale ranges for effectively every slider. Under your suggestion we would hypothetically have the following:
Head size slider: 1 to 30
Arm length slider: 1 to 50
Torso width slider: 1 to 40
Leg length slider: 1 to 60
and so on...
Frankly that seems "confusing" to me that they would be expressed in "non-uniform" scales. Why can one go to 50 when another could only go to 20 for instance?
If everyone knew "50" was the mid-point of ALL the sliders in the game how could it "confuse" people? Every other setting value is a completely arbitrary number regardless. I would rather have SOME standardized midway origin point for these sliders than none, even zero if that's what the Devs settle on.
Most "dials" that people relate to are things like radio volume dials that typically get expressed in simple "1 to 10" or "1 to 100" terms. Having "5" or "50" be the middle is a common and straightforward origin point. It's ultimately no more or less "arbitrary" than zero would be beyond the obvious advantage of avoiding negative values.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
That’s fair Lothic. I’m not trying to win anyone to my side, I’m just giving my opinions for consideration, and your opinions are good too. I have faith the devs will end up with something sensible. :)
This is definitely one of those things where there's multiple ways it could be done that would likely all be workable in the long run. My guess is that whatever way the Devs come up with will at least be functional even if it doesn't make everyone happy.
We have to remember that ultimately the "numerical values" we see for any slider tick marks don't really matter in and of themselves. The Devs could technically use letters from the Greek alphabet (i.e. α, β, γ, δ, etc.) to symbolize each slider tick mark and still basically accomplish the same thing here. The numbers are just there to allow players to "tell the difference" between one tick selection and another.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
I'm perfectly happy with having a 1-100 scale where if you select the "Average" build type all the sliders just automagically get set to 50 by default. Done.
[center][img=44x100]https://i.imgur.com/sMUQ928.gif[/img]
[i]Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.[/i][/center]
I think we all would, the problem is that some sliders might not support 100 unique points of adjustment.
But they'd probably all support 11. And then six sits right in the middle.
Just sayin...
FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)
Heh. Well played.
Yeah in a "perfect world" it would be this simple. I've seen other games keep things this simple, somehow. But as Atama said it's already been brought up that the CoT Devs have said each slider here could potentially have its own unique range of significant tick settings. I suppose that could mean as few as 10 or 20 all the way to hundreds depending on the range of detail they are trying to incorporate.
Based on this there are (as I said) many ways they could implement it. There's no real obvious one that's amazingly much better than any other as far as I can see and I suspect whatever the Devs come up with will -not- be universally liked regardless.
Yeah Spinal Tap was just referenced a few posts ago. Although maybe they could borrow from Harry Potter's secret train platform 9¾ and figure out a way to put a secret tick mark at 5½. ;)
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
The other possible trouble is that for a nontrivial number of sliders, there may be more room above the default than below it (if ticks are all equal in measurement change rather than % change). Take forearm length, where there is obviously some lower limit - either 0 inches or some short distance that doesn't create graphical problems - but the upper limit is pretty much arbitrary. Using a roughly 6-foot-tall male as an example, the allowed forearm range might be 2" minimum, 12" default, and 36" maximum. Then there's another level of complexity to consider, since we probably want the range and slider values to autoadjust when we adjust body type and height, and this probably requires each slider's range to actually be expressed as a function of height or some other closely-associated overall proportioning scale (e.g. head size, for the eyebrow height slider) rather than any units at all. For instance, the "real" forearm range settings behind the scenes might be: minimum = 2/72, maximum = 36/72, and default = 12/72 of current height setting converted to decimal format, rather than anything involving measurement units or ticks.
I personally don't care how the slider numbering is handled, but with that forearm example in mind, the basic options for the design seem to be...
Option A: Default tick 50 is the 12" default, each tick is a fixed 0.5" (or whatever) change, minimum (2") slider tick is 30, maximum (36") slider tick is 98. Behind the scenes, the UI converts the slider tick to a value between 0 and 1.
Option B: Default tick 0 is the 12" default, each tick is a fixed 0.5" (or whatever) change, minimum (2") slider tick is -20, maximum (36") slider tick is +48. Behind the scenes, the UI converts the slider tick to a value between 0 and 1.
...Or either of the above, but with the ticks being a % change toward their respective end of slider rather than a fixed change in distance. This loses fine control when near the max, may have no noticeable effect when near the minimum, and may initially feel odd to users when adjusting the slider, but allows clean and consistent UI appearance/function across all sliders. The underlying slider value is of course still 0 to 1.
Building from option A, tick 50 is the default, tick 0 is 100% of the way to the minimum, tick 100 is 100% of the way to the maximum.
Building from option B, tick 0 is the default, tick -100 is 100% of the way to the minimum, tick +100 is 100% of the way to the maximum.
Option C: Range is tick 0 (2") to tick 68 (36"). Default (12") tick is 20.
"Fun" with UI design, data structures, and math, to be sure.
Perhaps the sliders should be scaled on the Spectrum? Green would be the middle. Then the figurative '11' would mean turning it up to 'plaid'!
Be Well!
Fireheart
At one point we had a proposed color picker that had some slider with an 11-point range: -5 to 5. Sadly we had to discard that work as we found out we were limited to only 256 colors instead of the full RGB spectrum ????But I may have found a way to repurpose my work and you may still see it.
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[color=#FF0000]Senior Developer/Project Manager/Co-Founder... and then some.[/color]
[youtube=500x300]jUB8k_Mn7RI[/youtube][/quote]
FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)
I, honestly, think 256 is plenty. I mean how many purples do you need :p The addition of textures can also mimic lighter or darker shades.
[hr]
[color=red]PR, Forum Moderator[/color]
[url=http://cityoftitans.com/forum/desvipers-creative-impulsivity]My Non-Canon Backstories[/url]
Avatar by MikeNovember
Considering that City of Heroes could barely do ONE almost decent purple ... let's put it this way ...
We're going to need a LOT of purples!
[center][img=44x100]https://i.imgur.com/sMUQ928.gif[/img]
[i]Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.[/i][/center]
I'm hoping MWM will listen better and maybe even look at the stats for colors that are never used.
A step further, look at the ones overused and split them maybe.
[hr]
[color=red]PR, Forum Moderator[/color]
[url=http://cityoftitans.com/forum/desvipers-creative-impulsivity]My Non-Canon Backstories[/url]
Avatar by MikeNovember
But setting your nose slider to e would be irrational.
[color=#ff0000]Composition Team[/color]
[img]http://missingworldsmedia.com/images/favicon.ico[/img]
As irrational as a π to the face. ^_^
Foradain, Mage of Phoenix Rising.
[url=https://cityoftitans.com/forum/foradains-character-conclave]Foradain's Character Conclave[/url]
.
Avatar courtesy of [s]Satellite9[/s] [url=https://www.instagram.com/irezoomie/]Irezoomie[/url]
bravo!
[hr]
[color=red]PR, Forum Moderator[/color]
[url=http://cityoftitans.com/forum/desvipers-creative-impulsivity]My Non-Canon Backstories[/url]
Avatar by MikeNovember
Made me laugh. Have some fake internet points, or cookies or something.
~ DariusWolfe
Errant, TNT, Vibrant and Fluxion on Liberty
Yeah, 256 colors does appear more than plenty with the textures we have. I don't think we will go below that.
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[color=#FF0000]Senior Developer/Project Manager/Co-Founder... and then some.[/color]
Just don't have 40 variations of berry pink :p
[hr]
[color=red]PR, Forum Moderator[/color]
[url=http://cityoftitans.com/forum/desvipers-creative-impulsivity]My Non-Canon Backstories[/url]
Avatar by MikeNovember
Wasn't there still going to be some kind of "saturation slider" associated with every color choice? Was that the "-5 to 5" slider thing you were talking about?
I don't recall the exact details but some Dev was explaining not too long ago (a few months maybe) that once you've picked a given color you could also adjust that color's associated slider to actually get a whole range of related colors. I thought this was basically supposed to be your way to circumvent the hardwired 256 limitation and "trick" the system into giving us thousands of color options.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
I also remember reading something like this... I want to say it was Tannim? But it could easily have been someone else. I really hope this is still a thing, though. 256 colors is probably more than adequate, but sometimes the difference between the right color and the almost right color is the difference between lightning and a lightning bug.
~ DariusWolfe
Errant, TNT, Vibrant and Fluxion on Liberty
Not it!
[hr]I don't use a nerf bat, I have a magic crowbar!
- Combat Mechanic -
[color=#ff0000]Tech Team. [/color]
Well even if the "color saturation slider" idea had to be scraped for CoT it sounds like we'll still have more costume color choices than we did before. CoH only offered us 160 costume item colors (along with another 70 colors as part of the "skin color" palette. The following were CoH's main costume color palettes:
[img=600x600]https://paragonwiki.com/w/images//thumb/6/6e/Standard_Palette_2010.png/800px-Standard_Palette_2010.png[/img]
[img=600x600]https://paragonwiki.com/w/images//thumb/a/a8/Skin_Color_Palette.jpg/800px-Skin_Color_Palette.jpg[/img]
So if CoT is [i]only[/i] giving us 256 colors for costumes that's still an improvement over CoH.
It'll be interesting to see if CoT separates some colors out into a secondary skin color palette like CoH did. I think they did this mostly to try to prevent people from using an identical "skin tone" color for both their skin and their costume to effectively create nude characters. One of the many downsides to this segregation of colors was that we were never allowed to use brown/beige colors for legitimate "non-naughty" purposes in our costumes.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
[/quote]
Friggin' Chameleon Man....
Puny Heroes.
Everything in this video looks pretty great. I especially like the metallic purple effect.
One question I gotta ask tho...no time frame? No estimate even? Not even like "Spring! or Coming this Autumn..."
C'mon folks. Throw us a bone willya?
AtD
Based on how badly burned they likely were for "promising" an "end of 2018" release timeframe for the costume creator I wouldn't be a bit surprised if they just decided to suddenly spring its eventual release on us with no real warning this time. Gods forbid they promise "any" new estimate and somehow miss it even by a day. ;)
Remember this first initial "public release" is basically just going to be a very early alpha/beta test. It's not like an "official" launch of a finished game that by all accounts would reasonably have to be announced well in advance. MWM is perfectly within their rights to simply drop a beta in our laps basically any day they want to.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
Lothic's right; there's no way they are going to put a date on anything after what happened. Chances are it would end up burning them even worse...
Compulsively clicking the refresh button until the next update.
And you cant blame em just buy em some Ko-Fi and enjoy the ride
The needs of the many , far outweigh the needs of the few . Or the one.
At this point it's irrelevant. I'm not swimming in cash so I don't donate to games freely. When I get something for my donation, then, during the 2nd Chance, I will if they release something that meets my personal expectations and requirements for donating. By 'get something' I mean something like 'donate $50 and get the game upon release'; I believe that was in the original KS. But because they are leaving up the fundraiser until launch, they aren't really pressured to have a huge marketing campaign at pre-alpha launch/chargen drop if thats when they are opening up their 2nc Chance fundraiser. They'll get everyone who just can't wait to throw money at them, but for anyone like me, that wants to see some cool gameplay, they have all the freedom they want to wait to release something like that since I can donate at any point up until release and get the benefits. But I don't get anything for a ko-fi. Some have the excess to spare; I can't justify even small donations with nothing in return.
Compulsively clicking the refresh button until the next update.
Holding off on further donations until you get a better idea about how the game is going to turn out (such as waiting for the Avatar Builder or initial alpha play) sounds like justifiable caution. There’s nothing wrong with that.
Just trying to stay positive . No offense meant ,but any way I can cheer the devs I will. They volunterr for us.
The needs of the many , far outweigh the needs of the few . Or the one.
Heck even when I bitch, moan and/or act the fool on this forum I'd still be willing to give them my money in support.
I fully realize they ultimately don't have to "listen" to anything I have say here and -still- suffer no shame taking my money. ;)
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
This why we won't accept any further money or funding directly right now until we have something we can give the public. We want to make sure we earn that trust.
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[color=#FF0000]Senior Developer/Project Manager/Co-Founder... and then some.[/color]
Except for the KoFi and the Patreon, of course.
BTW, anyone wishing to throw money at the devs should consider throwing via the Patreon. https://www.patreon.com/HiJinx
Foradain, Mage of Phoenix Rising.
[url=https://cityoftitans.com/forum/foradains-character-conclave]Foradain's Character Conclave[/url]
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Avatar courtesy of [s]Satellite9[/s] [url=https://www.instagram.com/irezoomie/]Irezoomie[/url]
already on it!
of course, this is in keeping with the "something substantial" deal. Patreon does provide something, at least.
An infinite number of tries doesn't mean that any one of those tries will succeed. I could flip an infinite number of pennies an infinite number of times and, barring genuine randomness, they will never come up "Waffles".
all this talk of sliders is making me hungry.
I’ve been tempted to suggest an in-game burger joint called Don’s Sliders.
Oops, guess I couldn’t hold it in anymore.
I'm willing to get a good "in-game Easter Egg" type laugh from the topic as much as anyone else. Maybe such a burger joint could have jokes like a menu that talks about having either the "minimum" or "maximum" number of toppings you want, or even any number in-between. :)
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
Can we go slightly more on the nose? :p
Maybe "Lot's Sliders"? :p
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[color=red]PR, Forum Moderator[/color]
[url=http://cityoftitans.com/forum/desvipers-creative-impulsivity]My Non-Canon Backstories[/url]
Avatar by MikeNovember
There needs to be a hot dog stand run by Rod Stone. He's angry at being fired over creative differences when he helped open Don's Sliders.
ahem. End it here.. Please DO NOT continue with that line of posts.
Wait until you see the... nope, that would ruin the surprise.
Noted, changing the subject.
I had not initially realized the gloves and boots were using the stone texture with the flame pattern on top. While a standard feature present in CoH, it is a nice artistic decision. Another use that pops up to mind is using the feature to make the rock seem covered in moss.
Evidence of location based auras is also good to see. We all expected it, but that doesn't mean seeing the progress isn't appreciated.
Rewatched the video and it got me all hyped again :)
GLOWY BITS!
[hr]
[color=red]PR, Forum Moderator[/color]
[url=http://cityoftitans.com/forum/desvipers-creative-impulsivity]My Non-Canon Backstories[/url]
Avatar by MikeNovember
And they're on a slider... or at least they were till [url=https://www.instagram.com/p/BoXYsvIHHKZ/]9.30.'18[/url].
I hope that's still the case.
[url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_HUdf89hI8]Send out your signal, call in your hero
I kidnapped his lady, now his power's are zero.
[/url]
If you're talking about glowing pieces, yes, they will have an intensity slider. On those particular pieces you'll be able to go from something like a bright highlight to Tron lines.
Wait until you see the... nope, that would ruin the surprise.
Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but this slider talk sounds like nonsense. There is no such thing as a negative or zero measurement on the human body.
CO did (and does) a lot of things wrong, but one thing they did right is labeling the sliders. If you want to make a character 5' 6.5" tall, you move the slider between 5' 6" and 5' 7".
What the hell do I do with a 1-100 or 1-60 slider for height? Where does a 15 inch sleeve fall in a 1-60 slider range? A 36 inch chest? A 33 inch waist?
Unless the slider values are related to real world measurements in some way, they're nonsense. The result will be hundreds if characters with different random unrealistic sizes compared to NPCs.
You don't need to try to enforce a standard range of body sizes. But I guarantee that many players will want to create characters that have measurements related to scales they understand. 0 to anything, positive/negative and 1-x or -y does not help players do that.
I don't see why sliders can't be labeled in feet and inches, just feet, or centimeters. It's just a matter of associating text strings with internal integer values.
I could spend a lot of time trying to explain what's going on here but I'll simply say that ALL slider values in games like this are completely arbitrary when it comes to trying to peg them to "real world" measurement scales.
I get that a game like CO might have numbers that look like inches and feet to you but ultimately those numbers were just "best guesses" the Devs made to make you think you were dealing with something vaguely familiar. If you set one CO character to 5'8" and another to 5'4" the first will LOOK taller than the second but there's really no such thing as FEET or INCHES relative to what's going on with the graphics you see on your screen. Again it's entirely arbitrary.
Perhaps a Redname will come along and bother to provide a more in-depth explanation.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
Actually we do have an internal scale for characters and objects. That's how we were able to create that "police lineup" scale previously. There is a reference object we can measure against if we need to. The idea of giving a given slider some units of measure other than sticking with dimensionless values is a good one. I'll pass this on for consideration.
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[color=#FF0000]Senior Developer/Project Manager/Co-Founder... and then some.[/color]
For what it's worth I never said you didn't have an "internal scale" established. I just made the point that it's completely [b]arbitrary[/b] unless the computer screens you're using are at a 1:1 scale with the real world. If they are I'd love to see that. ;)
That might make sense for a few sliders like overall character height. But what about the facial sliders for instance. You going to bother scaling your eyelid sliders to fractional inches AND fractional centimeters? Far more trouble than it'd be worth. Sticking to simple integer scales and doing the "police lineup thing" is going to save you guys a crap-ton of development time that could be better spent elsewhere.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
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