Hello,
I've actually been planning on recreating my "Team" from CoH, and the thought occurred to me that for some of them I gave them travel powers that didn't quite fit their style just because there weren't many options and, hey, they had to get around in a reasonable time. So the question is, how do heroes whose powers don't naturally have a movement based ability get around? And the answer of course is, the same way as everyone else. So my question is, will CoT have some sort of non-super travel abilities? Cars may not be a good fit, but things like motorcycles and such would be a good alternative for getting around, and is generic enough to accommodate any kind of hero/villain.
motorcycles won't be a good fit either since they would still need to make a different model just for your character to ride that thing. As for non super ways of moving around, you'll have things that you stand on rather then sit down on and fly around on and Parkour, also slinging which I assume you can use a grappling hook for instead of Spider-Man based webshots.
not my video just one I lke ===> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6-SdIN0hsM
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If we have a teleport power that we can just go to a point on the map maybe having an aesthetic of hailing a cab, hopping in, then it speeds off. At the destination cab shows up, you get out it zooms away.
It's entertaining to me to think of a hero needing to take a cab to his mission.
"Quick! Follow that glider!"
Also some form of gobli- gremlin glider™ or hover boards would be a neat aesthetic for flight powers.
"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."
What if it's like a Tron bike?
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"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."
The devs have explained before that they would have to make a whole new mesh just for that travel power, which is a lot more work than it's worth. Maybe in the future they could do it, but it's far from near future, and on the kickstarter page it states that there are going to be options for non powered ways of travel anyway.
not my video just one I lke ===> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6-SdIN0hsM
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Need us some T-spheres.
[img]http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-aBu6yRtgEk0/VbBgroVaoQI/AAAAAAAAP5c/jNLrQTLafYY/s1600/MisterTerrific_02.jpg[/img]
Edit: my phone changed T to time. I didn't notice.
"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."
....yes....
not my video just one I lke ===> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6-SdIN0hsM
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Problem with all of this is character sizes, imagine having a 2ft character and an 8ft character, wouldn’t really work on a motorcycle or many other vehicles. Unless of course the motorcycle/vehicle was able to adapt to the size of your character
The Carnival of Light in the Phoenix Rising
"We never lose our demons, we only learn to live above them." - The Ancient One
Avatar by lilshironeko
Titan Taxi can handle anything! If you've been turned into a werewolf, they'll send a pickup, so you can hang your nose and tail in the breeze.
Be Well!
Fireheart
I know we have teleport, but what if we had it like Blink in X-Men Days of Future past? A quick hand movement and a portal appears in front of your character and your character jumps through it?
If I wasn't on my work computer I would insert a gif but I think this would be totally different from what you normally see, and maybe down the road we could customize the look of the portal like at first it could be your standard portal but down the road you can edit it to look glowy and sparkly, or dark and full of tendrils, or fiery?
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[color=#FF0000]Graphic Designer[/color]
Or paint a tunnel on the side of a cliff and run through it Looney Tunes style
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Avatar by lilshironeko
Im sorry are you insinuating that my suggestion is ridiculous or comical?
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[color=#FF0000]Graphic Designer[/color]
no I'm pretty sure she actually wants that as a travel power animation, not everything's sarcasm.
not my video just one I lke ===> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6-SdIN0hsM
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Im pretty sure she doesn't want that as a travel power that is pretty ridiculous which is why I asked. Ill wait for her answer.
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[color=#FF0000]Graphic Designer[/color]
Well not when you consider the setting. Living cartoons are a thing in comic books aswell as people with toon themed powers or fourth wall breakers. It's totally appropriate.
not my video just one I lke ===> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6-SdIN0hsM
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Also I want to teleport like the Demogorgon from stranger things
not my video just one I lke ===> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6-SdIN0hsM
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Personally I could see Hijinx using such a travel power.
By itself it may look ridiculous but you have to look at the concept behind the entire character and thus it can be made a perfectly natural part of them.
A cartoony portable hole would work for teleporting too.
Pull out black shape throw into the air in front of you, it forms a black circle in the air, dive through it like CoH characters did with vans, fall out destination hole.
"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."
Flight Ring?
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Avatar by MikeNovember
Why would I joke about such a thing, I would love to have a huge paint brush as a weapon and use it to paint a portal. Even if it were just the Acme black holes
New character concept, Bob Ross-esque guy with a fro and a huge paint brush like in his outro, able to paint baddies into a hypnotic state of happy coma :3
The Carnival of Light in the Phoenix Rising
"We never lose our demons, we only learn to live above them." - The Ancient One
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Well, we do have the brush already made.....
Technical Director
Read enough Facebook and you have to make Sanity Checks. I guess FB is the Great Old One of the interent these days... - Beamrider
Back in CoH, I named him 'Happy Little Trees'!
[img]https://i.imgur.com/LgOdnhe.png[/img]
Dude! I think I teamed with you once using Protector 624
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Read enough Facebook and you have to make Sanity Checks. I guess FB is the Great Old One of the interent these days... - Beamrider
That is beautiful!
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Avatar by MikeNovember
Fairly certain it was someone else. I rarely played this character on Champion, if at all.
Thanks!
Needs more fro :D
The Carnival of Light in the Phoenix Rising
"We never lose our demons, we only learn to live above them." - The Ancient One
Avatar by lilshironeko
CoH/V unfortunately didn't have a 'fro slider, but I do agree.
Regarding crawling, I hope there is an acrobatic component, with a bit f jumping and leaping, and a option for claws to be used-not everyone can stick it like Spider-Man :)
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"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."
Ordinary mundane humans can FREE CLIMB in a way that is broadly similar to "wall crawling" like Spiderman does. They just do it slower (^_~) because they don't have superpowers.
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Are jet packs an aesthetic of flight ?
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Presumably they would or could be.
Maybe we can get something like this for flight also
[img]https://i.pinimg.com/736x/f4/13/68/f4136896f7ee07b8b061f28702270b8f--dc-comics-characters-book-characters.jpg[/img]
"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."
Yes
Technical Director
Read enough Facebook and you have to make Sanity Checks. I guess FB is the Great Old One of the interent these days... - Beamrider
I, personally, cannot wait for this ga me. I love all these travel power ideas!
I know Champions online had some pretty kool Travel powers as well. Maybe that could help some.
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=champions+online+travel+powers+2018+
This was the basic one. I see only 5 unique ones. The others are either flight, or super jump.
[font=courier][color=#FF0000]Tech[/color][/font]
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Kuraikari, what's this list from? Most of that does seem redundant, but some are really cool aesthetic ideas for the basic powers.
~ DariusWolfe
Errant, TNT, Vibrant and Fluxion on Liberty
Those are the options from Champions Online.
When it comes to flight, I only see the need for 2 variants. One that's faster with a reduced aggro radios but you can't use attacks during, and one that's slower but allows the use of attacks. That way, for the first, we can get aesthetics such as turning into a bird without wondering how the bird shoots ice or punches people, while the second is for those who like to hover above the battle and rain down their attacks. The rest would be handled by CoT's customization.
While we won’t have travel powers that affect your threat rating or give bonuses to combat (other than what I created movement makes you capable of), haircut alternative modes of flight can be done with our current system. You just end up having to choose one at s given point.
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Bat Flight is one of my favorite travel powers in CO.
Gotcha. Some looked familiar from my time there, but some that I recall are missing, and others I done recall ever seeing, so I wasn't sure if that's where it was from.
Regarding CoT travel powers, will there be augments/refinements that give combat-applicable bonuses, such as improved defense or whatever? I recall Hover from CoH gave a defense bonus, which kept it relevant after you'd graduated to Flight. All I can remember reading is that CoT travel powers have their own advancement tracks, with not much detail on what that means.
~ DariusWolfe
Errant, TNT, Vibrant and Fluxion on Liberty
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No Augments for travel powers. The don’t have sockets of any kind. They also do not provide any combat benefits as they are separate from the combat system and powers.
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I do hope, for example, the fly speed does scale somehow.
It's really important to feel faster, stronger, tougher, etc as levels pass
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Avatar by MikeNovember
Yes it will. Travel powers have their own separate improvement system.
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It really seems like many of the CO versions (haircuts using Tannim's term) of Flight are really just "generic flight with special animations/emotes". For instance:
"Fire Flight" is just "Flight" with a flame aura
"Jet Boots" is just "Flight" with an animated costume item
"Earth Flight" is just a variant of "Hover Disk" which is just "Flight" while standing on something
TBH I would hope MWM will be very careful about making completely separate hardwired travel powers like this. I don't want to have to choose between a unique power called "Flight" or another power called "Jet Boots". I'd rather have one common Flight power then be able to choose if I want to wear jet boots (that would properly react to my Flight) or not. Travel powers should never REQIURE the wearing of certain costume items - costume items should be made to REACT to travel powers being used. Bird wings should not be required to fly, but bird wings should flap BECAUSE I'm using the Flight power.
As far as whether I'd want my version of flight to have fast or slow acceleration, tight or loose cornering and so on those characteristic should also be definable by players, not baked into specific powers. For example the text given for CO's Jet Boots is the following: "Fastest flight; slowest acceleration, no jetpack option". Why should we be locked into those kinds of highly specific characteristics? Maybe I want to wear jet boots AND a jet pack AND have quick acceleration/turning at the sacrifice of a relatively low top speed.
Bottomline once you start moving away from the basic core travel powers (i.e. Fly, Super Speed, etc.) and start offering fancy "designer powers" (with highly specific movement characteristics like the CO Jet Boots) then unless you make dozens of subtle variants you're going to start to piss people off. By making only one type of hardwired Jet Boot power (for example) you might actually upset more people than just sticking to the single, generic Fly power because your hardwired mindset of "Jet Boots" won't match what many players will want their Jet Boots to do.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
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+1
[font=courier][color=#FF0000]Tech[/color][/font]
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It's too bad travel powers wont have sockets, that was always fun for me in CoH...but if their own advancement system gives the same feeling then it wont be a problem. I'll be very interested in that update sometime down the road. With sockets you could replace old ones every few levels, even if only for an insignificant increase. I'm curious how the travel power's unique system will compare.
Compulsively clicking the refresh button until the next update.
I like Lothic's comments as well. It falls more in line with aesthetic decoupling. However, if the progression process allows for choices on powers which Lothic is asking for then I'm guessing it will be pretty flexible.
In what ways does the progression system allow us to change our travel powers ?
While I mostly talked about Flight oriented powers earlier it would seem that just about any travel power could be governed by several basic characteristics. The main ones just off the top of my head (but obviously not limited to) could be:
[list]
[*]Acceleration Rate
[*]Turning Responsiveness
[*]Top Speed
[*]Power Efficiency
[/list]
So what might be cool for the "travel power progression system" is to have every travel power start off at relatively low default values for the qualities I just listed. Then as the character rises in level the player could choose to incrementally improve the specific characteristics that are important to them but the key would be that it would be very hard (if not impossible) to make such a power "perfect" in all categories. Thus for example you might eventually make a travel power super fast or super power efficient but you couldn't max it out completely in all the characteristic categories.
I honestly have no idea if something like this is what MWM already has in mind but I think having a system like this would be pretty interesting and allow for a degree of customization in how each travel power works for each character.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
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@Lothic, that is pretty close. There are some issues with providing parity for improvement across all forms of travel powers. Each needs distinctive categories.
There also has to be limiting factor based on what is improved. Having a high speed, high responsive flight can actually be very disorienting. It can actually make some people nauseous. And we don’t want to end up letting people unintentionally messing themselves up and end up having to respec to just fix movement.
It isn’t an insurmountable problem by any means. It will just take a lot of fine tuning to get there.
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[color=#ff0000]Tech Team. [/color]
Even the Old City had it right on Flight: wings, rocket boots, jetpacks, automatically reacted to flight.
But also, their flight can be unwieldy as it decelerated. It didn't feel natural on the take off and landing.
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Avatar by MikeNovember
Sure I was just "spitballing" as I was writing that post. Different travel powers would likely have different core characteristics. For example the "zip-line" travel power might have something like a "fire distance" characteristic that might regulate just how far away a character could shoot their grapple out to anchor it to something.
I'd expect that these kinds of reasonable limits would be established/determined via beta testing. You might be able to specifically allow something like Flight to be EITHER super fast OR super responsive but not both. That would mitigate some of the real-life motion sickness potential in that case.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
Yes CoH handled this aspect of travel powers fairly well.
It sounds like, according to what Tannim's saying, that we'll be able to "tweak" the way Flight works to maybe satisfy more people. I'd actually like to be able to adjust it so that some of my CoT characters' Flight power works like CoH's Fly while others work more like CoH's Hover. Again this hopefully sounds like it'll be doable to some degree.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
I am somewhat wary of having two differing advancement systems for powers. It might be fine. But I feel like using the same type of socket system would be ideal, sticking to the "keep it simple" methodology. I expect that you can restrict sockets to only accept certain refs/augs. So you'd have a separate but parallel advancement path for travel powers that doesn't require a separate explanation. And you don't have to balance two different systems.
Without knowing anything about the plan for travel power advancement it may make more sense to have a separate advancement system.
Perhaps we can get a mechanics update on this? I think it's the first we've heard of this advancement difference for travel powers. I think you could also roll in some details about how costume items, props, and travel powers will interact. With combat powers you have props but those are "pocketed" when not using the power. What about grapplehooks and webs and wings and rocket boots. Some of these are "props" but others are costume pieces. And of course there is the mystery that is the motorcycle.
Edit: I somehow missed all the responses since Tannims last reply...
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One interesting thing that popped into my head. Since combat and travel powers are separate systems will we respec them separately as well?
As for having the same system for both, without knowing how travel powers are supposed to progress we can't say what is better. My suspicion is that we'll get "points" at regular intervals that we can spend on either improving one aspect of an existing travel power or choosing a new one. From other posts (and the info here) it sounds like we will be able to get all travel powers but at the cost of them (individually speaking) not being as good as someone who "specialized" in one or a few.
I am curious to know how the CoT system will handle multiple travel powers on one character.
I remember using Super Jump & Super Speed at the same time in CoH. I know people used Teleport & Hover.
How will the selection of multiple travel powers impact character progression if the Travel Power Progression is different than normal powers?
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I think we need to change the way we look at Travel. We need to stop calling them powers and maybe call them Travel Modes or Movement Styles?
As they are their own INDEPENDENT system and will NOT affect power level progression?
There will be some overlapping effects, but to all intents and purposes . . .
Completely unrelated to the ongoing discussion: one thing we ought to avoid (and that CO has done completely wrong), is special effect "upgrades" as you build up the movement power. Anyone in Champions online who has used Phoenix Flight or Shadow Wing Flight is fully aware that these powers look really nifty at the basic level, but after the second upgrade, you look like you have Saturn V rocket boosters attached to your feet and each wingtip, and have difficulty seeing either the character or much of anything in front of her.
(For reference, the way to get useful Wings of Fire is to take Fire Flight (Human Torch flight), get some wings with a transparency texture, and color them black (ie: invisible). That way when you turn on the flight power, the invisible wings get the flame aura too)
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On a similar note. Haven't played around with flight that much but one thing that I really hate about is that at highest speed "stage" the wings stop flapping when moving around (still flap while hovering) and essentially turn into airplane-wings instead. It's like something else than your wings are now making you fly.