https://twitter.com/TonyV_CoH/status/1120855527175671808
Weeeeelllll….isn't this an interesting development. I guess the fact that the code is out in the wilds and CoH fans managed to turn it around into an almost fully-functioning game in a matter of a couple days - and had enough concurrent players to crack the Steam top 100 - turned some heads in NCSoft?
Can't wait to hear what they or the Titan Network proposed (depending on who took the first step) and what the deal could entail. I have a large bucket of popcorn waiting. And the best thing is that the code is still around for private servers if need be.
Ya know...it's gonna be real hard to beat Aesthetic Decoupling.
[img]https://s15.postimg.cc/z9bk1znkb/Black_Falcon_Sig_in_Progess.jpg[/img]
Oh this definitely won't be a substitute for CoT, but it could be good to have an official, organized revival of the old game. Though how good (or not) would depend on the potential deal I suppose.
CoH brought back isn't likely to beat a new superhero mmo. It however could hold some of us over.
I'd say CO and DCUO but those were out when CoH was out and they were never as good.
My thoughts exactly.
I didn't try out the private server this past weekend. My biggest reservation about playing CoX in this configuration is the constant state of peril. I don't think I could enjoy playing under the looming cloud of legal threat from NCSoft nor the mercurial vagaries of any private server run by an individual whose situation, finances, etc could change at any moment.
If the Titan Network can get a permanent, irrevocable OK from NCSoft this would remove both aspects of my worry. It would be nice to have something to play again while we wait for CoT. It could even take some of the pressure off MWM and let them program in peace without us constantly bugging them. As long as they don't spend all their free time playing CoX… ;-)
Spurn all ye kindle.
Not being able to use Props for any power is really frustrating ;p
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Avatar by MikeNovember
Unfortunately the issue over there was caused by someone with a god-complex wanting to make it private again so he could be the almighty gatekeeper of CoX again. Not saying it wasn't technically still a possibility to have legal ramifications but they weren't the real problem that brought the server down. However, if they would have released the server-side code while they had it, like they did with the client source code, then we could have an infinite amount of private/public servers and theres no chance NCSoft would have put in the money/effort to shut them all down.
That being said, it was fun playing CoX again this weekend and if they get it up again Ill surely play it more but the things released by the CoT team are head and shoulders above CoX. The graphics, even on all ultra are cringily bad by today's standards.
20041004-20120910
Let's try not to get in the mud over god-man, plz
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[color=red]PR, Forum Moderator[/color]
[url=http://cityoftitans.com/forum/desvipers-creative-impulsivity]My Non-Canon Backstories[/url]
Avatar by MikeNovember
Just to be clear, I wasn't referring to the current shutdown or anyone in particular. I just meant that [i]any[/i] private server run by an individual with whom I'm not familiar is a dodgy bet, whereas I believe the Titan Network has shown a longevity and certain level of professionalism (though I know some disagree) that would make me trust them as administrators. Also, any server that doesn't have an ok from NCSoft remains in legal peril, whether imminent or distant. Distant would actually be worse, in my mind. I'd hate to get several new characters to max and then have the rug pulled out again.
What I really would like is something to tide me over till CoT is up and running. I've really be jonesing for an MMO lately, and nothing else out there scratches that itch.
Spurn all ye kindle.
Please, let's not devolve into tinfoil-hat conspiracy theory crap.
Precisely how I feel.
Question: would this potential legit Titan Network server have our old characters? And if not, would our old names possibly be available? How would all that work? And God bless CoT for going with global naming!
FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)
I don't think anyone can provide a definitive answer on this at the moment (although I'm sure some will claim to do so), other than perhaps TonyV at Titan Network, and then only if he is specifically not asking for the character data. I do understand there are some issues with us players in the EU and the way the GDPR legislation protects our rights, but I suppose there could be ways around that. How they view my situation would be especially intriguing to me, given that I live in the EU (for now) yet played exclusively on US servers.
Spurn all ye kindle.
Thanks Cinn!
You know... I would like to think that at this point it has to be glaringly obvious to NCsoft that instead of the undying and embarrassing thorn I their side it has become, CoH and a CoH 2 COULD have been a crown jewel for their company.
Dumb asses.
FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)
Since the characters and accounts seemed to be one of the sticking points before and given the new EU laws, I think a no to loading old chars is a safe bet.
The temp server up over the weekend did not have any of the old chars data. It does mean a freeing up of the names, as I rebuilt my main without issues.
Aye, if I were forced to put money on one outcome, I would go for a start-over database. I think an official deal with NCSoft increases the chances of getting access to the old data, but I expect it's not by any amount that can be seen without a microscope. Still, that's more than zero.
Spurn all ye kindle.
In regards to characters it seems to me the character downloader we used to preserve characters , in hope that this day may one day come, was from Titan Network. That may be a saving grace.
Could be wrong.
Hi. I'm Hope.
The nice thing about this effort is that all the cards are in the hands of the titan network guys, compared to previous efforts. Instead of "pretty please can we buy this thing" it becomes "we already have the thing, you can either make 0 money, spend money uselessly fighting something you can never win against, or make some money and/or good PR by giving us your blessing."
The other nice thing about this effort is that, in theory, it doesn't impact or slow down those hard at work on throwing up their own servers. Even if everything goes south in negotiations (again) it doesn't really change what they are doing. Indeed, that is exactly why we've got the upper hand in negotiations this time around.
edit: I also agree that more modern efforts such as CoT are the best possible outcome for the future. Anyone can be excited for all of these projects and efforts at once though, and I certainly am! If negotiations end up with an NCsoft owned server with money going back to them though....I'm not sure how I feel about that. I would prefer a private but endorsed server for the same reason I am excited about SEGS and CoT and any other project that that is distinct from NCSoft. That reason being I'm unhappy with the way NCSoft handled CoH.
I have zero hope of having the characters back, and honestly, I don't mind revamping them.
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[color=red]PR, Forum Moderator[/color]
[url=http://cityoftitans.com/forum/desvipers-creative-impulsivity]My Non-Canon Backstories[/url]
Avatar by MikeNovember
I definitely have mixed emotions about having CoH available to play again.
On the one hand I'm obviously glad people will have access to the game and I'll probably jump on one of these servers mainly to see what new things people might have been able to add to the game.
On the other hand I had two main characters who each had 1390+ badges. It took a [i]very[/i] long time to manage that - it didn't just take 10s of hours or even 100s of hours but more like several 1,000 hours for each of them. That was a huge investment in time and effort and I enjoyed every moment it took to achieve that. The problem is that I don't ever see myself being able to duplicate that achievement and frankly playing the game again -without- those characters would likely annoy me so much that it wouldn't truly be worth it to me.
In my 8.5 years with CoH I also played several dozen other characters besides those two badgers of all different types so I really do have a general sense of satisfaction that I effectively "finished" playing that game. I did every mission, TF and trial the game offered. Honestly I think I could go to my grave without spending significant amounts of "additional time" with the game and not feel any regret over that.
Bottomline while I'm glad CoH is available again I have no overwhelming desire to play it myself. I'd be more than happy to wait for a NEW game like CoT and enjoy a completely new experience.
Yeah this is probably another reason I suspect that I won't spend -that- much time playing CoH again. As good as CoH ever was as a fun and entertaining game its "look and feel" is simply getting more and more dated as time goes on. That's not really any fault of CoH, it's just a matter of fact - all games age.
CoH is certainly still a "playable" game and based on recent events it seems that there will still be people playing it for years to come. I'm simply looking forward to playing games based on graphics technology circa 2019+ rather than games based on graphics technology circa 2002-2004.
No matter what happens with ANY of these CoH server scenarios I would pretty much safely assume that our original character data (c. 2004-2012) will NOT be made available for multiple reasons. Basically I'd rather accept that it's gone for good than to continue to hope it'll magically show up and be disappointed when it doesn't. We should all be happy enough that CoH is available to play at all - if by some miracle our old data ever gets released that'll just be icing on the cake.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
For me it isn't even about the dated graphics (though it is noticeable) but the game systems and experiences that have changed over the years. Back in 2004 it was normal for a quest to be "go beat up 20 guys in a warehouse" over and over forever. Actually, even then it was noted that CoH content felt kind of bland compared to other mmos at the time....though that did change, and eventually they started adding in some little cutscenes and stuff to some missions.
While there is nothing wrong with punching faceless baddies all day if you want to, having some kind of interesting story or events that are memorable can really keep people interested. Something that gets people invested. This is something I think champions actually did a little better than CoH since they had more in game cutscenes, voice acting, even that neat "create your own story nemesis that shows up in your quests" system. I know CoH started using some of the same ideas but the bulk of the game definitely feels more like 2004 than 2012 in that respect.
It doesn't have to be all hand crafted high production value stuff to engage people either. Sometimes systems can produce really interesting stories on their own. The nemesis system from shadow of mordor for example helped organically generate interesting situations and stories for players. Even something as simple as very short "ha ha not even PLAYER NAME can stop us now!" introductory cutscenes in missions that were sprinkled in CoH and champions really helped break up the flow and made the player more invested in the events.
Thinking back on it, one of the games that did this brilliantly, and perhaps somewhat accidentally, was dead rising. The story, characters, and dialogue were pretty absurd but almost every scene that the player's character was in kept them in whatever crazy outfit you had put on them. While the player didn't get to make choices or influence the dialogue, you could make an otherwise serious or tragic moment side splittingly hilarious. This became a game in and of itself, and was a great way for the game to reward the player and allow the game to showcase their accomplishments. Even if that accomplishment was wearing a bucket on their head and wearing an outfit to make Elton John jealous. Players love to feel important, like they had an impact, to see their efforts reflected and showcased.
For reference, current status is that i25 binaries (which ran the SCORE server from last weekend) have been leaked into the wild via torrent, and multiple successful desktop PC installs are being reported in discord with screencaps. Small-scale LAN play also appears within reach. Dev commands via elevated premissions combined with the /mmm command can grant IOs, among other things...so as long as you have character records (Sentinel perhaps, or any other methods you may have used), your characters could make a fairly quick comeback at least in a single-player or LAN environment. For more information as it develops, check the CoH Discord, coding section -> i25-binary-discussion.
[edited to add:]
There is also the rapidly-progressing effort to turn the i24 leak (which includes the code and can thus be far more easily improved and expanded) into a similar batch of functional binaries/databases/etc. This is generally accepted as the longer-term solution as it allows a return to a Paragon Studios baseline for those who prefer it, as well as gameplay progress / architecture optimization past i25, plus greater freedom to customize private servers beyond the limits of what can be done to i25 via config file tweaks.
Thank for the info. Of course everything you've said here [url=https://cityoftitans.com/comment/170526#comment-170526]essentially confirms my suspicion[/url] that we will eventually have multiple divergent baselines to pick and choose from. Welcome to the wild, wild west... ;)
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
I had a long history with CoX like a lot of you. Loved it. As funny as it sounds, I have no interest in playing it again. I get the feeling, once the initial wave of glee passed, I would be disappointed. Maybe with CoT looming playing CoX would leave me dissatisfied? Either way, I'll remember CoX fondly, with a smile and always sing its praises.
I would probably play it again. I saw videos of someone in Siren's call and it brought back so many memories. I could spend hours in there pvp'ing.
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[color=#FF0000]Graphic Designer[/color]
I will not rest until my Kheldian boot is on Recluse's neck! :p
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[color=red]PR, Forum Moderator[/color]
[url=http://cityoftitans.com/forum/desvipers-creative-impulsivity]My Non-Canon Backstories[/url]
Avatar by MikeNovember
All Heil Recluse.
Puny Heroes.
Necrobia for all! :p
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[color=red]PR, Forum Moderator[/color]
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Avatar by MikeNovember
As opposed to the "go beat up 20 guys in the overworld" of other MMOs at the time?
Honestly for me the way CoH handled missions was better than... Pretty much any other MMO I've played. There was something satisfying about going into a place and knowing you cleared out all the baddies. Each room could be a challenge if you were a lower power character, do you take out the strongest first or clear up the weaker ones?
I almost exclusively leveled via radio missions when they were available. But back in the early days man did I love traversing the city (except some zones, looking at you, Hollows), beating up crooks in the act (or interesting or large groups of ebenies) on my way, and finding the door so I could go in there and really feel like I made a difference in the in-game world. There might be crime running rampant all over but not in this office building, not anymore!
"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."
IMO graphics are the icing, not the cake. And like Project I still liked CoH missions (and teaming) better than any other game I played.
CoT is the future (since NCsoft dropped the ball), but until the future arrives, a stable, legal CoH server would be my preferred present.
FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)
You don't need pvp to spend months on CoH, you just need the Character Creator and levels 1-14 of PvE to show to some team your powers and costume :p (and get fun with the good animations).
Leave the PvP-endgame reason to mmorpgs who need it, which are bad in all the rest ;)
Yeah to be clear CoH is still currently quite playable graphics-wise but like any game its graphics are in fact aging. Eventually even the "icing" goes stale and a game becomes so graphically out of date that it becomes a serious QoL issue.
Using Lara Croft as the classic example of CGI evolution I think it's hard to argue that most people would PREFER (in 2019) to play with the versions of the character on the left side of these pics than the ones towards the right.
[img=300x300]https://i.ytimg.com/vi/AZk8CIirNuk/maxresdefault.jpg[/img][img=300x300]https://shortlist.imgix.net/app/uploads/2015/11/24231636/20-things-you-didnt-know-about-lara-croft-4.gif[/img]
[img=300x300]https://i.imgur.com/EenFTgE.png[/img][img=350x350]https://i.pinimg.com/originals/b4/76/26/b47626c10c43a97093bb7dbf7ae9571b.jpg[/img]
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
This is how I feel as well. While I didn't think Kill-X missions were the best, the writing and mission design did get better over the years (for the most part). I liked that even the later content with more interesting design didn't get too over-complicated. And man how I loved the fact that most content was instanced!
Spurn all ye kindle.
I like the ones on the right.
My brother is dyslexic and has to look at the birthmark on his left hand, to identify which, occasionally. Leading me to say, "Check your Left," in situations like this.
Be Well!
Fireheart
Uhm... to be clear I meant the right relative to you looking at them on your screen. I'm not actually sure if you're agreeing with my point or not lol.
All things being equal most people like the most realistically detailed graphics in their games possible. If people didn't prefer that we'd all still be playing games with the graphics quality of your typical 1982 arcade game. ;)
At one point I had some trouble instantly remembering which side of a ship/boat was "port" or "starboard" until I memorized the little mnemonic that the words "port" and "left" both have four letters. Years later I've sailed long enough that knowing which is which is reflexive for me.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
It's been a long time since I went sailing, but I read enough 'nautical' books to keep 'Port and Starboard' alive in my head, yet it's hardly automatic. Still, holding up my right hand and looking at the pictures you posted, I am more attracted to the models on the right side of each image. However, the words you posted with those images indicated that the Left-most were the best, so I presumed you had misstated your preference.
Not really worth the pixels to discuss, I guess.
Be Well!
Fireheart
Yeah I must admit that my post was poorly worded - it was sort of a double-negative TBH. Basically what I meant was that given the choice people are more likely to want to play games with more modern realistic graphics (i.e. the ones you liked).
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
Yet, I still find you to be a Good communicator. I understood what you meant, despite the contrary terms in your post. I agree, people generally prefer better graphics and more realistic images. In games, as well. Then they have the choice of dialing things back, for better framerates.
Be Well!
Fireheart
OK, I tried the SCORE server today and learned a few things about my relationship with the game. As always, YMMV:
1) It's very difficult to get invested in a character when you don't know whether you will still have access to it a week/month/year from now.
2) Combat is still every bit as much fun as I recall; still not outdone by any of the other MMOs I have tried.
3) I have to modify what I said above about graphics. I hate to say it, but the old game really looks...poor. If CoT can replicate the feel of combat in a modern engine, I can't see wanting to continue playing the old game once the new one is ready.
4) Levelling up was such an awesome effect!
5) I really missed the sound of glowies.
Spurn all ye kindle.
This is one of several reasons I'm not jumping into the metaphorical pool anytime soon. Again I love the "idea" that CoH is now available to play but I'm probably going to give the whole thing at least a few weeks to sort itself out and to see which servers are likely going to be as "reliable" as anything like this could be. I just don't see throwing say 100-200 hours into something like this only to have it shutdown again for whatever reasons.
This point alone will probably keep CoH viable as a game for at least a few more years.
Again it's not really CoH's "fault" but it's not going to be possible for a game based on 2002-2004 software technology to continue to "hold up" graphics wise forever. I'm not saying it's sucky-looking for a game of its age. I'm just saying there are now plenty of games that look much, much better.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
I’ve had the chance to play quite a lot over the past few days (except during the time period between the two servers), and for me I’ve felt like the game has held up well, although I can see why others would feel differently.
The graphics weren’t as dated and bad as I remembered them being actually, minus the salad tong hands :). On ultra mode things actually looked quite good. That said, I can’t wait for COT’s character creation, which will be building on CoH’s foundation to create something truly next generation.
The combat was also better than I thought it would be. I had expected it to feel slow, and for the rioting aspect to bug me. It really didn’t. I’m playing a kinetic melee/reflexes scrapper and so far I’m a big fan. Again, I anticipate CoT is going to build upon this foundation.
Nothing feels the way this game feels to me. The lord, the setting, the energy, and the atmosphere, are all amazing. I haven’t felt this in another game. To reiterate something I’ve said before: I’m not an MMO player, or even really a gamer. I’m a guy who’s girlfriend happened to know about this game and said I’d probably like it because of my love of superheroes. I’d tried other games here and there but was never really captured. Then COH completely pulled me in with its world. So far the COT lore has been amazing, but I think I’m this case, I don’t know how it will FEEL until I actually get in game.
Long and short of it: I still adore CoH every bit as much as when it was live.
And I’m still beyond hyped for CoT.
Name: Safehouse
Ranger: Gunner
Primary: Force Blast
Secondary: Atrophic Aura
Tertiary: Kinetic Melee
Travel Power: Parkour
Status: Traveling. Following rumors of a huge city in Massachusetts that is teeming with supers.
Having played around on the revival servers for about a week now I have to agree that the combat still feels good but the graphics and player engagement of events and stories definitely doesn't. That being said, there is a lot of stuff in there from late in development (or added by the community) that really smacks you in the face with how much better it looks and plays compared to 200x era stuff.
Even if you nitpick the most exciting costume parts and most interesting missions though, yeah, a brand new game is going to have the potential for a huge advantage. As long as it keeps the best parts we all love about the original and just improves on it, which CoT has definitely shown over and over to be the case, there won't be much reason to still spend time in CoX.
For now it is pretty great to be able to leap over buildings and punch baddies off rooftops though!
I played the game from not too long after launch till the last day. I was there when the servers went dark and I still have the pictures. CoH was my first MMO and the game that hooked me into them. When the MMO wave first started with their subscriptions, I was adamant that I would never 'buy a game and then pay to play it'. A friend of mine got CoH and showed me the game. He was playing an Electric Blaster and running around a sewer map at the time and I found myself drawn in to the fun of it. That broke my resistance and got my own copy soon after. I do hope the efforts to finally get a sanctioned way to play the game again bear fruit but I also remember the failed efforts back after the shutdown and the bitter taste that left. So I can't help but be rather cynical about the prospects of a revival.
Reality is what I make it
I like how her hair is getting darker with every game. In the next one, she'll be wearing corpse paint. xD
[url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_HUdf89hI8]Send out your signal, call in your hero
I kidnapped his lady, now his power's are zero.
[/url]
Yeah, with all of the overuse of vampires and zombies, dead is the new sexy : /.
FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)
A "goth/zombie/vampire Lara Croft" would be pretty cool. It makes sense considering all the creepy "Tombs" she "Raids" that she'd eventually be turned undead. I'll have to save that as a background idea for a CoT character. ;)
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
Haha - I actually think the game looks better than I remember. Granted back in the day I was playing CoH on a potato computer and now I have a pretty damn good modern gaming machine lol.
If you crank up the settings and use something like reshade the old game looks a lot better....
.. but some of the oldest parts that were never updated definitely show their age. Much like that lothic image of triangle boob original lara croft, old models made with few polygons don't age well.
Ok, so, not to be dense, but for now it's illegal to get on any CoH private server until/unless Titan Network sets up an approved server--right?
FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)
Well that's why this whole thing is still pretty confusing and full of grey areas.
Technically speaking there's nothing "illegal" about any player playing a game like this on any server. The problem is that anyone hosting the CoH code right now is currently doing it without specific permission from NCsoft which means NCsoft can serve "cease and desist" letters against the host operators and potentially sue them, especially if the these operators are somehow making money from it.
The worst thing that can happen to an individual player in this situation is that you could lose access to these servers and have your characters wiped at any time. You have no recourse because you're not really given any "guarantee" of anything.
Now the hope is that maybe a group like the Titan Network can establish some kind of working agreement with NCsoft so that they can operate their servers without specific fear of getting shut down at any moment. If that can be done then you might have a place where you can level up characters that have a reasonable chance of lasting more than a week or two.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
And that's an appropriate post to be the last one I read on [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Intellectual_Property_Day]World Intellectual Property Day[/url]. ^_^
(Good night!)
Foradain, Mage of Phoenix Rising.
[url=https://cityoftitans.com/forum/foradains-character-conclave]Foradain's Character Conclave[/url]
.
Avatar courtesy of [s]Satellite9[/s] [url=https://www.instagram.com/irezoomie/]Irezoomie[/url]
Yeah, I'd strongly recommend to anyone who wants to try it now before there's a sanctioned server that you go in expecting your characters to be wiped at any moment, and be happily surprised each day that that has not yet occurred.
Spurn all ye kindle.
Personally, I'm expecting the sanctioned server to go at corporate speed, so I expect to have at least a week or two with the current rogues gallery.
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[color=red]PR, Forum Moderator[/color]
[url=http://cityoftitans.com/forum/desvipers-creative-impulsivity]My Non-Canon Backstories[/url]
Avatar by MikeNovember
I really really want to play again lol
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[color=#FF0000]Graphic Designer[/color]
Yeah, I'm just trying out some new ideas and builds, not really "playing for keeps" at the moment. When I can get in that is. They have two servers and both are maxed.
I've been playing the living shit out of it ever since it launched. Loving every moment of it.
Puny Heroes.
I hate the last one in the line, but I do like the 4 before her. So, real isn't always better.
It could be that for you the last one is now in the [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncanny_valley]Uncanny Valley[/url]. It's obvious that the "last 4" that you do like are far more "realistic" than the first versions from the 1990s so the question for you is not about "realism" in general but just how close that realism is to "can't tell from real life" it is or not.
Maybe the next several versions in the next few years will pull back out of the Uncanny Valley and you'll like them again. Or maybe you just like Lara in super tight "short-shorts" and a belly shirt. ;)
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
Her face on the first 4 reminds me a lot of one of the faces from CoH.
"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."
The bit Lothic mentioned about there not being any assurances that servers won't get wiped and brought down because we're all scurvy pirate dogs makes me laugh really hard and break out the rum.
Because that is exactly what happened to the actual game servers.
Drink up me hearties yo ho!
The difference of course is that during the [b]8.5 years[/b] NCsoft supported CoH the collective chance that the servers were going to exist from week to week without having our characters randomly wiped was pretty much 100%. We even PAID them for that tacit guarantee of 24/7 service of which they did fairly well all things considered.
On the other hand we're now living in the "pirate world" where the current CoH servers [b]really could in fact[/b] be shut down at any moment and who knows how well the characters are being backed up and/or maintained.
So yeah while it still sucks that NCsoft did in fact do its best to kill the game we all love frankly if I had the choice I'd rather play a game with a "legitimate company" guaranteeing the reliability of the game servers than a bunch of good-hearted volunteers that currently are effectively pirates.
Obviously having a pirated version of CoH is better than having no CoH at all. I simply question exactly -how- much better it really is.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
Well considering the first 4 faces are probably roughly from the 1995-2005 era it makes perfect sense they'd seem similar to CoH which was developed in the 2002-2004 timeframe.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
The pirate servers are real while they last. Can more be said of life?
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.
Obviously any game can be shutdown at any time. That said it's simply silly to think that a "pirate" version of a game has just as much 24/7 reliably as a non-pirated one.
If NCsoft can come to a reasonable agreement with some/all pirate groups out there then it might be worth it to "re-invest" my time in the game. Until then I'll keep playing other games and wait for CoT.
As you imply enjoy it while it lasts...
P.S. I probably literally played CoH for 10,000+ hours back during 2004-2012. I really don't have an overwhelming "need" to play it again as long as any server could be yanked at any time. I already put my time into the game so playing a few more hours now won't really help either way. If CoH can be guaranteed a "reasonably stable" future I might jump in again at some point.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
Am I crazy or should character info be stored locally?
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[color=red]PR, Forum Moderator[/color]
[url=http://cityoftitans.com/forum/desvipers-creative-impulsivity]My Non-Canon Backstories[/url]
Avatar by MikeNovember
I can't say whether it should, but as I understand it, aside from costumes and maybe a couple other things, in the old game it was not. I suspect it was a safety precaution to prevent people from hacking-to-win.
So I played most of the weekend and the thing that fascinated me most as I analysed my feelings was that, although I enjoyed every minute of play, for all of those minutes the overriding thought in my head was, 'I can't wait for CoT to come out.'
That is, of course, a hope based on a big assumption that CoT will truly capture the feel of the old game while improving on all the bits that are really showing their age. If it doesn't, perhaps we'll end up with the old game as a consolation prize, but I found it interesting that that's how I view the old City at this point.
Spurn all ye kindle.
As someone who still plays Neverwinter Nights, I think I'll still be fine with the graphics of CoH. Sure, I can appreciate better graphics but what I really care about is the game play underneath all those pretty polygons.
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I never set anything on fire accidentally!
The Titan Legacy - Defender of the Inner Flame
Eye candy gets you NOTICED in a crowded market.
GOOD gameplay design gets people to come back (and stick around).
Surface versus Depth.
Easy to Play but Hard to Master ... and all that ...
[center][img=44x100]https://i.imgur.com/sMUQ928.gif[/img]
[i]Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.[/i][/center]
That's exactly it. If character info was stored locally (beyond cosmetics, such as costumes or power customizations), then within a month there would have been a MIDS-like program that would let anyone edit their character data to level 50, with any enhancements they wanted, badges, etc. In an MMO -- at least any MMO with levels, skills, and any sort of gear/economy -- character data pretty much HAS to be stored on the server.
+1
I get the feeling everyone's having "trouble" with my reasonable criticism that a game originally launched back in 2004 is not likely going to be as "graphically sophisticated" as one created today. I'm just stating a matter of fact, not opinion.
But you guys have to look at this the way I do - the fact that the ONLY thing I can seriously criticize CoH for is its 15+ year old graphics is actually a testament to how GREAT the overall game actually is. I honestly can't really think of any similarly aged game that I'd even [b][i]think twice[/i][/b] about wanting to EVER play again.
Frankly if someone could magically update the graphics quality of CoH to today's standards while keeping all the rest of the gameplay fundamentally identical you'd practically have the Holy Grail of Perfection. ;)
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
I get Lothic's point and there's nothing wrong with that viewpoint. I, on the other hand, am quite happy making new characters and playing again regardless of how long it lasts. The wife and I spent most of the weekend playing.
When we could get in over the server issues and the massive waiting queues. Over 8000 people trying to play on 2 servers that could handle around 2000 each.
Sunday they added 2 more servers, but that caused issues and everything is down right now. Hopefully things should be sorted out soon.
They are back up now, but it’s definitely understandable that adding new shards would cause some instability at first. These folks are doing this entirely volunteer, learning as they’re going along, while people are bum rushing them as soon as things comes back online. All things considered o think they are handling it well.
I got one toon to 20 this weekend, but I decided to create on one of the newer shards to help with the population. Even with 4 shards up, everything was red. Folks be ITCHING to play.
It has been a genuine joy.
Name: Safehouse
Ranger: Gunner
Primary: Force Blast
Secondary: Atrophic Aura
Tertiary: Kinetic Melee
Travel Power: Parkour
Status: Traveling. Following rumors of a huge city in Massachusetts that is teeming with supers.
Oh yeah. I'm amazed at how much has been accomplished so quickly. And very grateful that these folks are willing to foot the substantial costs (money, time, and sleep) to let all of the rest of us play.
To be completely clear I think it's great that there's that much interest in it. It's news like that I want NCsoft to hear to prove that after all this time there's still that much interest in the game. :)
I'm sure within the next few weeks the server issues will be worked out and maybe by then an official deal with NCsoft will be made. The good thing is that we have time on our side - the longer NCsoft goes without responding one way or the other the [i]weaker[/i] their case for IP enforcement will become.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
Actually hadn't thought of that. Not that I wanna test the Fates and have NCsoft be more harsh.
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[color=red]PR, Forum Moderator[/color]
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Avatar by MikeNovember
I'm not exactly suggesting that anyone go out of their way to "poke the bear" as far as pissing NCsoft off any more than we have to.
But yes, the longer a company does nothing to defend their IPs the less likely courts will rule in their favor. For example let's say we hear nothing from NCsoft about these new public CoH servers for a full year or two then all-of-a-sudden out of the blue they decide to sue one of the server operators. A judge is going to look at that case and ask NCsoft, "Why did it take you a full year or two to take action?" and will accordingly be less likely to side with NCsoft's claim of anything.
Again as I said time is on our side with this as long as NCsoft stay dormant. For all we know NCsoft has already weighed the pros and cons and decided it's not worth their trouble to defend the IP against what's happening, especially after the Master X Master fiasco.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
Just had this video handed to me. It needs to be examined by someone with appropriate legal training. I have some but I'm not sure if it's enough. I personally am staying well away from this topic because of my position but this may be of value to someone:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUAX0gnZ3Nw
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[color=#FF0000]Senior Developer/Project Manager/Co-Founder... and then some.[/color]
I regret that this is beyond the scope of my long-ago week-long legal clerk class.
Foradain, Mage of Phoenix Rising.
[url=https://cityoftitans.com/forum/foradains-character-conclave]Foradain's Character Conclave[/url]
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Avatar courtesy of [s]Satellite9[/s] [url=https://www.instagram.com/irezoomie/]Irezoomie[/url]
Technically speaking I have a lot more training than that - a lot more - but I'd rather not unless I go ahead and seek my bar membership. Don't see that happening any time soon. I would still have to be extra cautious just because my position. I wrote up MWM's original incorporation documents as well as our first IP agreements and NDAs, FWIW. I also had a lot to do with the "Terms" and "Privacy" links you see at the bottom of each page (with the paid assistance of our retained law firm).
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[color=#FF0000]Senior Developer/Project Manager/Co-Founder... and then some.[/color]
The idea of corporate/wealthy interests using propaganda and bribery to change both legality and public understanding is nothing new. It definitely didn't start with video games.
Especially in the U.S.
So what you're implying is that every once in a while we ought to actually read the occasional EULA rather than just rely on the "collective group-think assumptions" we all take for granted about how these things are supposed to work. ;)
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
I guess? Except EULAs have been destroyed in court for trying to do stuff that was blatantly illegal, including the EULA itself being inherently obtuse and long for the purpose of deceiving the person forced to read it. "You didn't read the fine print" only goes so far if you can show a business is not operating in good faith with honest practices. Generally speaking, companies exist to make money, so if shady crap can be done to swindle people it not only will be done, but it will keep on being done until it gets challenged in court. Even those profiting likely have lots of resources due to ill gotten gains to fight it, court battles are just one of many ways the deck is stacked against an individual customer.
It comes down to how much people care, how much they understand, and how much they can organize. Those who profit tend to then attempt to control those exact levers if they can.
This isn't something that is new by any means and not at all limited to video games.
This video seems very convincing. The arguments make sense, especially with some precedents being set in the EU already.
If you have 45 minutes (or the full 75 min), give it a watch / listen.
"Just, well, update your kickstarter email addresses, okay? Make sure they're current?" - warcabbit
I still like the monthly sub model the best anyway, and according to that guy, that model is not fraud. Yay hard sub model.
I hope those of you who are playing the zombified remains of CoX are having fun. I personally am terrified not of getting sued or any C&D, but of downloading a virus, getting hacked, or something similar.
Edit: I would also point out that one COULD choose to eventually sunset a game without bricking it. You, the game developer, have the option of releasing the source code or binaries or whatever to the general public and then let them try to maintain a server on their own. You could even have such files available for download on your corporate website. But that sounds like competing against yourself if you're planning on releasing another game any time soon.
Theoretically, NCSoft could have kept CoX running in the undead state by refusing to roll out new features or invest in improvements, and just keep it on life support only. It would clearly not have cost as much as running the game in it's prime, so they could probably have done that.
R.S.O. of Phoenix Rising
I know it's considered "old fashioned" but the sub model always makes me feel like the company involved is more "serious" about providing a stable, long lasting service. Any game you can just start and/or drop without consequence just gives me a weird sense of shadiness and insincere unprofessionalism.
Well it's always safe to be concerned about -anything- you download no matter what it is. But yeah to be perfectly honest between trusting a company like Paragon Studios versus "a bunch of well-meaning guys hosting a pirated game" I would have to say I'd likely be a bit more suspicious of the latter than the former.
That said I would think that if any of these CoH server groups were currently passing around overt malware that there'd be word of that spreading around like wildfire and I personally haven't heard any news about that. I would think that as long as your anti-virus protection is reasonable then you'd probably be relatively safe with this.
One thing I like about MWM is that the Devs said very early on that if it ever came to having to shut CoT down that they'd make every effort to make sure that they did NOT brick the game. I realize that's not an ironclad guarantee but the mere fact that they mentioned it made me feel better about supporting them.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
Lothic, While I totally understand where you are coming from in wanting to play a 2019 game, CoH and CoV were so totally ahead of their time I wouldn't mind starting from scratch. I had 144 characters and two more free slots to use when they shut it down. I never finished all the content and played with people from all over the country (we are still in touch today). My son got me hooked and yes I will play CoT but if CoH comes back that's where I'll be and my son said he would play it until he dies (probably another 30 years or so). We all had dragons too and a guild for just our dragons. And buying Pangeon Soil to give to a friend just because I had the money to do it ($4.3 million). Man what a blast!!
Hope to see you all out there!!
Nightengale (among others)
I think the basis for the guy(Ross Scott)'s argument is something the rest of the world's industries are having to deal with now as well in a manner of speaking. I am referring to disposal costs. Let me explain.
A long time ago I helped the Navy write the inactive ships instruction. It sets forth the ways and means to dispose of all the ships in the Navy, whether that is by selling them, cutting them up, donating them, or turning them into artificial reefs, etc. etc.
Likewise, now that we have electric cars, the power cells are a significant environmental issue to be resolved. Not only are the lithium and other materials used to make the batteries probably less sustainable than even oil, but the disposal and/or recycling issue has still not yet been tackled on an economic scale.
Heck, lets also talk about recycling programs for something as simple as household plastics. You can't buy nearly anything made of plastic without seeing what recycling category it is stamped on it somewhere. There was a lot of time and investment put into that; far more than any single plastic water bottle is worth from a cost perspective.
So it seems to me, that if what the guy in the video says is correct that it should be considered just part of the development costs of the game to include an end-of-service conversion protocol. When the game provider is done making money from it, they throw that switch, do what it takes to turn it over to their players, and then walk away. If they are truly done making money from that game, they shouldn't care if it stays alive with the players. (note: not the IP, they retain the rights to the IP and may continue to make money off the IP as long as they hold those rights)
One argument that was not made in the video which would probably need to be addressed legally is resale. If I bought a bike, used it, and then sold the bike two years later to someone else, the new owner should be able to use the bike as long as he wants. If I resell a video game license to another person, is that license transferable and can that person continue to play with it?
[hr]I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
You are talking about the "first sale doctrine". But with software it's trickier unless you are selling the original and not a copy.
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[color=#FF0000]Senior Developer/Project Manager/Co-Founder... and then some.[/color]
Theoretically, since monthly-hard-sub-required-model games are largely impervious to Ross Scott's arguments, a game developer could clearly stipulate in the EULA for a game that all players who install and make accounts are agreeing to pay a nominal 1-cent per month "bare bones" sub, to be pre-paid up-front at time of purchase for a 10-year subscription. Then, if the game get's bricked before the ten years are up, they have to replay you the balance of the pennies you didn't get to play for. Since 10 years at $0.01 per month amounts to $1.20 total, it's peanuts anyway. Assuming your game lasts at least 5 years, you're only paying customers back like $0.60 each, and even then you could probably make that a reimbursement which they forfeit if they do not ask you for it in writing within a year of the game being bricked, again in the EULA. The remainder of the cost of downloading the game could be defined as some kid of one-time fee you pay for the "service" of being allowed to download the game at all, then they can try to sell you microtransactions while the game is alive, including a more substantial "VIP" subscription that comes with lots of cool things.
The plain fact is, maintaining a game server that players can log into and play with/against other people via the internet by means of a central network server is not some evil tax dodge or something, it's how people want to play games. It evolved that way. I remember playing text-based games like Solar Realms Elite on bulletin boards back in the late 80s and early 90s with my 56 kBaud modem line. Playing single-player games like Wing Commander was fun. Playing with or against a friend in person or over a dial-up modem from me directly to my friend was fun. Playing with/against the general public in a giant internet-enabled sandbox was also fun. People wanted that and game companies made it happen. That said, it has overhead upkeep costs, which makes it a service too. I mean, whether or not it's a good, it's still also definitely a service.
Also, just letting people play a game like CoX on their own in a single player mode is kind of terrible, to me. I mean, if I had a single player copy of CoX that didn't allow me to play with or against anyone else over the internet, that would make it not worth the effort, for me. It's like being the only person in the world who owns a telephone. Sure, the device you own is still undamaged and in proper working condition, but its intended purpose cannot be fulfilled anymore because it was designed with the intention of being able to interact with other copies of itself in the first place. Now, games a like CoX are not TOTALLY useless without other players and central servers, but personally I would not bother to play CoX much if it were only single-player playable. For me, it may as well be bricked if that single-player jail mode is my only option.
R.S.O. of Phoenix Rising
Have fun with that. For what it's worth I never suggested people shouldn't play on these newly created public CoH servers. If anything I was simply explaining why I'm personally not rushing into it anytime soon. As always YMMV.
Dragons... in CoH? Money for Pangeon Soil? You might be "mentally merging" several different games together here. Whatever works for you I guess.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
Which, with the prevalence of downloading data (games, music, books, software in general) over getting an optically encoded disc or other physical format, means it's now almost always trickier?
Foradain, Mage of Phoenix Rising.
[url=https://cityoftitans.com/forum/foradains-character-conclave]Foradain's Character Conclave[/url]
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Avatar courtesy of [s]Satellite9[/s] [url=https://www.instagram.com/irezoomie/]Irezoomie[/url]
I already got my evil ass to 50 and am working on IO sets again. Here's to hoping the servers stay live for good and people get to keep characters.
Puny Heroes.
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