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Probably incoherent ramblings of an ex-PvPer from a small and dead game.

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Slan
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LOL! Nothing says "I'm

LOL! Nothing says "I'm seriously butthurt" like vomiting a massive wall of text in response to a haiku.

Sensitive gamer
"Nobody makes me ignore!"
Let's all kumbaya!

jag40
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Slan wrote:
Slan wrote:

LOL! Nothing says "I'm seriously butthurt" like vomiting a massive wall of text in response to a haiku.
Sensitive gamer
"Nobody makes me ignore!"
Let's all kumbaya!

Well now who is the sensitive one. You still never got back on the topic. You still haven't made any point about the subject. If you never have replied in the manner that you did, then I probably wouldn't have much to say on the topic in the personal manner you presented.

Haiku or not, your length of post have no bearing on my length.

So I guess you do not considered it, you rather, being over sensitive, by responding in a personal attack in response to a simple post I made that you happen to disagree with? You can be in denial all you want but you were the over sensitive one with intolerance to difference view points. Because if it didn't upset you and didn't make you rage, then you would have shared your view point without getting personal about it. Yet, you didn't, you took offense at the audacity of someone making a different view point you do not agree with, didn't have the intelligence to make a point so, like a knuckle dragger, simply went to personal assumptions and trying to dismiss the point. And no the reply was not because of the haiku. In fact you keep me on your brain and keep talking, I'll keep talking too. Regardless of the style you put it in. You're the one that simply cant let go of the fact that a person had different views than you. You still keep me on your brain, just cant get over it huh? Just keep at it. Like I said, you keep at it, I might reply. You don't say anything about me, then I have nothing to reply to. Cause and effect. So don't try to make it look like "oh it's because the haiku. No it's more of the words there than the haiku.

And which is it, first you said that I always repeat myself and write walls of text. Now you're saying it's just because of the haiku? You don't know which. You are searching reaching and scraping the bottom of the barrel for more personal attacks. You cant even stick to your own insults with out contradicting yourself. Either I write walls of text all the time and repeat myself as you said, or it's simply in response to this haiku. Which is it in your eyes?

What screams butt hurt is someone that go personal because someone makes a different view point than they have and then try call anything that follows butthurt. Your sensitive behind started this mess in the first place. At least have the maturity to take responsibility, and at least stick to the top and get over the fact that I made a different view point than you did. Because regardless what you say, it's obvious you're the sensitive one because if you wasn't so sensitive, then you would have realized that someone stating a differing viewpoint do not warrant personal attacks or personal assumptions about the poster.

So I think that haiku applies more to you than to me.

But no matter if you write haiku, Greek lyric, ecologue, wasf, or yuefu, the styling is irrelevant to me and unlike you, I aint going to go as low to attack a poster for what style they choose. But unlike you, I'm more focused on the stuff and content you present. You present rudeness, I reply back in kind. You reply on subject, on the topic, then I reply in kind. What ever style you choose, I do not care as it has no bearing on the content. Call it vomiting, but maybe you should look up vomiting, because there is no way to vomit and it come out in words. I type. If you cant type more than 17 syllables, than that is the style you choose to do. I choose to do more. What now, because you are writing in haiku, I'm supposed to write in haiku because you choose to? You choose to get personal and make personal assumptions and expect someone to not reply and address it? Well you made your choice, I made mine, the choice to address it so you can call it what ever you want to call it. But the fact is if you didn't get so butt hurt over another poster's mine, opinion, and stayed butt hurt, then this subject probably would have been done long time ago. You would have went on your very way, thinking what ever you think. But no, you got so butt hurt, that you just couldn't stand someone typing an opinion that didn't line up with yours. And thus here we are. You still refusing to offer any thing constructive, and straw man reaching for anything to say, "Oh look you're butt hurt." to take attention off the fact the real one that took it to heart over a differing opinion was you and you replied in a stupid attacking manner. And that person you attacked decided to address it, while at the same time, asking multiple times, or suggesting multiple times, stick to the subject. Like you think my view is bull crap, then state why and quit this petty nonsense and attacking me because my view was different so we can get back to discussing the thread topic.

I say that PVP participant's behavior had an effect on the state of PVP and I suffered towards the end of the game's life/. You don't think so.. so what do you think is the issue with PVP if any or why do you think PVP was perfect and viewed it as being in a good state of being in the end of the game.

Or will you continue to be butt hurt beyond belief at the fact that my view is different and think up of some other insults and ways to dodge the topic with another haiku or another style of poem or trying to keep the subject on a personal level instead of the thread topic at hand because you simply can get over the butt hurt that hurt your fragile little ego. "ZOMG! someone offered a different view point. God forbid I forget to attack them personally and totally ignore the entire subject line. I have nothing intelligent to say so let me get personal." mindset that you are exhibiting. Because deep down inside even though you are afraid to admit it, the one being overly sensitive in this case is you. Or else you wouldn't have even bothered to reply or bothered to reply in the manner that you did.

All I'm doing now is seeing how long you will continue to dodge the subject and or continue to be so butt hurt about it that you cant help talking about me. And to make sure I get a true count, I'll keep replying. So far, I'm pretty dang flattered that I'm on your brain that long, and my differing view caused so much anger that I dared to say something that you do not agree with that it's going on two days now. Really going for the record there buddy eh? I angered that much that you cant help but keep going for two days simply because I had a view that you disagreed with. I do not think you paid this much attention to comments you agreed with. Meaning, that you must find me so interesting that you cant help but to keep talking about me and making the subject about me, when in reality it should be about PVP. But I guess you view me as more important than the thread topic. Kind of flattered actually. I do not think anyone ever spent this much time online talking about me or so hurt over a comment simply because it was different than their view. Makes me want to apologize for my different opinion comment causing you so much anguish and pain that it caused you to write poems with me as the subject. Wow. Never knew my words that that much effect on someone. Now if I only could nudge you back to the actual topic, and see what is your stance on what affected PVP in your view, then it will be more interesting. Although I do not mind too much that you keep me on the brain, because if you switched to haikus it's probably a sign you are running out of spit in the insult department. I think you used plenty of butt ones. Although you seem to have a strange fascination and obsession with butts. All of this, because I dared to make a comment that Slan did not agree with. How dare me right for not thinking about his fragile ego. I should have known, not to disagree because it hurts him deeply and leave him with nothing to say but personal attacks and writing in haikus. I guess I can check that off the block now. I pissed someone off soooo much by making and having an opinion different from their that they were reduced to nothing but personal insults and writing haikus about me. I think one subject you missed was grammar. Usually you turn into a grammar Nazi by now. I'm interested in the haiku you write about that.

Slan
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Quote:
Quote:

I say that PVP participant's behavior had an effect on the state of PVP and I suffered towards the end of the game's life/. You don't think so.. so what do you think is the issue with PVP if any or why do you think PVP was perfect and viewed it as being in a good state of being in the end of the game.

Freudian slip much?
Well I'm glad that you are finally able to admit that you were suffering. Maybe now you can overcome the trauma and get on with your life :)

We already discussed this issue. I don't know if you have a poor memory or what but you can just go back and reread the thread instead of rehashing it with another wall of text crapfest. It would be nice to know if the developers of this game have any intention of doing some flavor of world or zone pvp. If not, then I consider your entire litany to be completely irrelevant since it's based almost entirely on you hanging out in Cox's poorly implemented pvp zones.

Slan
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Quote:
Quote:

I think one subject you missed was grammar. Usually you turn into a grammar Nazi by now. I'm interested in the haiku you write about that.

It's actually genuinely sad that you view your horrible writing as some sort of badge of honor. If you wanted to be taken seriously, you could actually try to put some sort structure to your posts.

jag40
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Slan wrote:
Slan wrote:

Quote:
I say that PVP participant's behavior had an effect on the state of PVP and I suffered towards the end of the game's life/. You don't think so.. so what do you think is the issue with PVP if any or why do you think PVP was perfect and viewed it as being in a good state of being in the end of the game.
Freudian slip much?
Well I'm glad that you are finally able to admit that you were suffering. Maybe now you can overcome the trauma and get on with your life :)
We already discussed this issue. I don't know if you have a poor memory or what but you can just go back and reread the thread instead of rehashing it with another wall of text crapfest. It would be nice to know if the developers of this game have any intention of doing some flavor of world or zone pvp. If not, then I consider your entire litany to be completely irrelevant since it's based almost entirely on you hanging out in Cox's poorly implemented pvp zones.

that was typo but even if it wasn't then it would have read I suffered towards the end of the game's life. Yeah suffered because people like you had a hand in ruining PVP and leaving no one to fight. Thus it wasn't a Freudian slip in the manner that you think. Because PVP got boring when there was nothing to fight. Thus I'm getting over that suffering by offering suggestions and solutions and view points of what I think happened with the PVP in COX and hope it does not end up the same way in the new game that is supposedly the spiritual successor, with the same player base. :p

We did not discuss the issue. I already reread what I said and what you said. You said nothing on the subject but went directly to say that I was whining because I had bad time in PVP. AKA your PTSD comment from getting beat so bad? You remember that? And again, length of posts never seemed to be a single issue for you, as there are many much longer than mine hanging about, yet you say nothing about it. Thus only reason you even bother bringing up the length is because you simply trying to dismiss the point. So as far as length is concerned unless you can show me where you had issues with length in the posts that were longer or just as long as mine, then that point is highly irrelevant and bascally just being brought up as a cheap attempt to dismiss the point. If length was the issue, then you probably should have been on Sergev's case the past week for the posts, many longer than what I had written. And again, yes, if you keep trying to dismiss the point with irrelevant things like personal attacks, or "the post is too long" or other non-relevant reasons then yes I will reshash the point.

When if you actually would have read the point you have seen what I'm talking about in regards to zone PVP. And as far as arena, good idea but too buggy to be considered an good alternative the way it was in COX. That is my opinion. Not saying it's fact.

Anyways. And yeah I'm interested too in what they have planned as far as PVP and again, no my point is not irrelevant because the whole point is to not have the poorly implemented zone pvp, as you said it was yourself, be implemented in the same way again as it was in COX because the results of it was seen. It's called history. And PVP players I think had a hand in that as it went down hill. Instead of making a point about bettering PVP most of them wasted too much time attacking other people. You may think it's irrelevant, but I think it's very relevant to voice on what I rather not see be poorly implemented again in the new game, or as you called it' "poorly implemented pvp zones". And I did arena too, and mentioned arena in a few of my previous posts. If you wasn't too focused on one narrow point and trying to dismiss it all, you have seen also that I mentioned arean too. Especially after someone suggested arena was an alternative to zone pvp in COX. That is when I brought up the point that it was very buggy at time which made it tedious to use in the place of pvp zone. You missed that point and had it stuck in your head from the get go "that my entire experience is all in PVP zone" while totally ignoring evidence to that pointed otherwise.

See sticking to the topic is much easier. Hopefully PVP in CoT will be better and if they do zone and arena pvp it will be better done. And when it comes times to suggestions I hope the PVP base spend more time stating their case instead of trying to attack others so that in the end PVP can be built efficiently and with the PVP player in mind.

jag40
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Slan wrote:
Slan wrote:

Quote:
I think one subject you missed was grammar. Usually you turn into a grammar Nazi by now. I'm interested in the haiku you write about that.
It's actually genuinely sad that you view your horrible writing as some sort of badge of honor. If you wanted to be taken seriously, you could actually try to put some sort structure to your posts.

It aint a badge of honor, but usually grammar becomes an issue by now when you disagree with a person although you ignored tons of grammar mistakes in the past yet point out how sad the structure or grammar is for a post you do not agree with.

At the same time though, I know this isn't a professional setting and I understand the difference between professional setting or rather formal and informal writing. And like I said, if you have issue or trouble understanding what I wrote, the simple thing to do is simply state you don't understand. Do not wait until you disagree with a post and trying to immediately dismiss it to use structure or length as an excuse.

Because it's hard to take serious a person who attacks people that simply had a different view.

And when a person say, "hey Jag, I don't quit get you." I usually try to reiterate and change the structure of the point to get it across.

But when they try to dismiss the point, make personal attacks and assumptions, and call the point irrelevant then try to use structure and length as an excuse. Then hell no, why would I bother? Because why they try and say "oh if you want someone to take you serious..." when they haven't shown a sliver of effort to try and take it serious to begin with and spent the entire time trying to dismiss the point by using irrelevant assumptions and personal attacks. Then what would trying to restructure the point do? They still will find any excuse to dismiss the point because if they were truly interested in the point to begin with, they would had stated that they cant understand and can I reiterate in amore clear concise manner to begin with. Not start with dismissing the point, then personal attacks then all of a sudden they cant understand the point because of structure and length. Which is contradictory because how can they say, "oh I'm getting the point it's stupid and irrelevant" if they do not supposedly understand the point due to structure and length? Thus to me, it looks like they are merely using that as an excuse and even if I did correct everything until it was professional grade they still will find some excuse to dismiss the point like they were doing the entire time. It's about approach. If you have and truly have issue with the length and structure, then say that from the get go. Do not be an ass towards me first, dismiss the point ignore the point, call it irrelevant then try to throw up the lame excuse of 'Oh if you want someone to take you seriously, you would write like this and that." Because with that approach no one would bother changing a thing. If I came at you with attacks, and said your point is stupid, and such and irrelevant, and then turned around and said, " Oh I couldn't understand you because of length and structure, and if you want people to take you serious..." would you change it for me? I doubt it. More than likely you probably respond with an insult, or dismiss that point too and view it as some lame excuse that is just being thrown out there. Or call it being angry or raging, or being butt hurt.

Approach, man. Maybe I need to practice on structure but you need to practice on your approach seriously. It's brash, uncouth, rude and really hard to take what you say as actual advice because then it all look like an excuse to keep dodging the point even though you might have a valid point about the structure. But approach it that way leading with personal assumptions personal attacks and dismissing the poster's point because you disagree, then I do not think any person would bother changing anything for you with your approach. I don't think you would either if the shoe was on the other foot. At the same time though no one is perfect and seem many mistakes. So before getting on someone case about structure and length, there must first be a standard structure and length set in place. Given the wide variety of structures I seen on this forum, there so not seem to be any set standard. Maybe some are preferred more than other but structure and length cannot be an issue if the rest are let go until there is a set standard set as far as structure and length. Even with grammar, there are tons of grammar mistakes across this forum. And it also must be decided whether if the rule will be formal writing or informal writing but switching back and forth depending on how much a person agrees or disagrees with the poster probably wont work very well and probably will be met with some resistance. Because it's hard to take serious, even less serious than someone who simply make some grammar mistakes, someone that comes in and replies acting an ass and dismissing points and making baseless assumptions about people and using that as an excuse to dismiss and ignore the point then throwing up structure and grammar later as being an issue. Communication is the point of writing. If the message gets across then the job is done. If not, then instead of getting personal, just say that you cannot understand, and maybe it can be fixed. But it probably wont when you approach it quite frankly acting like a pure donkeyhole. Because since there is nothing set in stone yet, especially on the PVP front, the entire subject about PVP in CoT may be irrelevant. But who's to say until they say "this and this and that" is what PVP is going to definitely be in CoT. But being it has been stated that CoT will be a game like COX, then all this, my point, the other points, all points may be relevant. But what is relevant or what is not is not yet clear until the cement is placed and starts to dry. Maybe PVP will be like it is in CO where it's invite (challenge) opponent only. And even there I bet some would say that is not a perfect system. Maybe there wont be zone PVP at all and it's all open world on instead where one can be attack anytime any moment when they turn their flag on, but even then, I still believe the PVP participant's behavior can have effect on overall long term health of PVP and whether or not lot of people play it or will it be empty with maybe a few people in it sitting around bored.

But either way points can discussed without all the personal attacks garbage and assumptions, and acting an ass. But that takes two and when one starts acting an ass and getting personal, and dismissing points without understanding the points or continuously ignoring the point and making personal insults at a person., the discussion at hand goes nowhere and it's at square one. AKA, personal insults and making assumptions to try and use as an excuse to dismiss another's point because it do not or is not the same as the one in mind is the only true irrelevant point that can be made in here or any topic for that matter unless the thread topic is about that specific person.

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Just make out already. You

Just make out already. You obviously are made for each other.

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Darth Fez
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I have to agree with JayBezz.

I have to agree with JayBezz. I'd say this discussion has gone well beyond being constructive, so it should either be dropped or taken to PMs.

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Rheckawrecka
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Holy wall of texts that say

Holy wall of texts that say absolutely nothing!
Ive got a suggestion... how bout people not clog up a thread with endless banter that turns others off from getting involved in the conversation (you know, like maybe a dev)...

I thought the issues with pvp were things like being tp'd into the air and then tk'd... floating helplessly while someone went pew pew pew at you.... Or that any of the toggle defenders (dark and rad) were pretty much useless... defense being useless... etc etc

Darth Fez
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Those are one aspect of the

Those are one aspect of the problems that can exist in PvP.* Another aspect is to make certain that PvP is engaging and attractive so that the players - ideally even those who are not primarily PvPers - will regularly participate in PvP. It is this aspect that tends to bring up personal/social concerns, though these are not matters that the developers can address in any meaningful way. That is something the PvP community on the game needs to determine and deal with. Or not. MWM can only provide the venue. If the players decide to engage in and/or tolerate toxic behavior, that's on them (us).

* Let's not kid ourselves, these problems will exist in CoT unless the devs declare that such and such ATs, or power sets, are unavailable in PvP. As has been said elsewhere, CoT aims to present far too varied a palette for character generation to make it possible for all combinations to be viable in PvP. To say nothing of balancing them all on a 1v1 basis.

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Slan
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Darth Fez wrote:
Darth Fez wrote:

Those are one aspect of the problems that can exist in PvP.* Another aspect is to make certain that PvP is engaging and attractive so that the players - ideally even those who are not primarily PvPers - will regularly participate in PvP. It is this aspect that tends to bring up personal/social concerns, though these are not matters that the developers can address in any meaningful way. That is something the PvP community on the game needs to determine and deal with. Or not. MWM can only provide the venue. If the players decide to engage in and/or tolerate toxic behavior, that's on them (us).

I disagree. If developers could only provide a venue then it stands to reason that you would see this type of acrimony in MMOs in general. You don't.

The cox devs could've instantly done away with the majority of "toxic behavior" in pvp zones by disabling chat between enemy factions. I think they mistakenly assumed that people would be mature enough to use ignore and/or disable zone chat. That would've taken out taunting and verbal abuse. It wouldn't have solved any of the underlying issues relating to the deathmatch style of pvp they implemented.

Quote:

Let's not kid ourselves, these problems will exist in CoT unless the devs declare that such and such ATs, or power sets, are unavailable in PvP. As has been said elsewhere, CoT aims to present far too varied a palette for character generation to make it possible for all combinations to be viable in PvP. To say nothing of balancing them all on a 1v1 basis.

The question is why are they viable in pve and not pvp? If the cot devs learned anything from the history of cox pvp, they will start out with some sort of goal oriented implementation that will actually make use of some of those powersets that may be irrelevant to deathmatch style. The goals should be structured in a way pure damage spam doesn't guarantee a win. If your character has a role in pve, then that role shouldn't be completely changed or made entirely irrelevant once you set foot in pvp. I would hope that the powersets this team develops are less cookie cutter than what cox had and that respecs are readily available so that few if any are completely locked out of pvp.

I think the biggest underlying issue with cox pvp was that the devs catered very strongly to casual pvers. Initially there was an expectation that you were playing an MMO and that your character served a purpose on a team. But as time went on, they made it easier for someone to solo on pretty much any kind of character through the introduction of temp powers, epic powersets, etc. So something like a blaster which is meant to die fairly easily becomes a lot more durable. So if a blaster, which can hit very hard from range, becomes near to a base level scrapper in terms of toughness--why would you play a scrapper?

jag40
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Darth Fez wrote:
Darth Fez wrote:

Those are one aspect of the problems that can exist in PvP.* Another aspect is to make certain that PvP is engaging and attractive so that the players - ideally even those who are not primarily PvPers - will regularly participate in PvP. It is this aspect that tends to bring up personal/social concerns, though these are not matters that the developers can address in any meaningful way. That is something the PvP community on the game needs to determine and deal with. Or not. MWM can only provide the venue. If the players decide to engage in and/or tolerate toxic behavior, that's on them (us).

* Let's not kid ourselves, these problems will exist in CoT unless the devs declare that such and such ATs, or power sets, are unavailable in PvP. As has been said elsewhere, CoT aims to present far too varied a palette for character generation to make it possible for all combinations to be viable in PvP. To say nothing of balancing them all on a 1v1 basis.

This.

possiblysilit
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Rheckawrecka wrote:
Rheckawrecka wrote:

Or that any of the toggle defenders (dark and rad) were pretty much useless... defense being useless... etc etc

Consider though that many power sets weren't useless, but that people just didn't know how to use them. Like I said in the OP, pvp knowledge wasn't really easily available to most players.

Don't take this as a personal attack, because it isn't, but your post seems to reaffirm that (unless I've misread it). In the pre-i13 pvp system, rad was arguably the single strongest and most versatile power set in the game. Dark was not nearly as good, but it was one of those funky ones you could make work in the more casual pvp setting if you wanted to. In the i13+ system, rad wasn't quite as powerful, but it was still really strong. Pretty much every pvp team had a rad defender in their lineup. Dark actually became very strong in less organized pvp/1v1 situations, mainly because of it's absurdly strong heal.

There were a lot of worthless/broken powersets in coh pvp, and that certainly was a problem. Just as big a problem was that to actually understand the pvp system, you basically had to luck out and play with the right people.

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Don't worry, some of the

Don't worry, some of the Devs love PVP. The studio manager Warcabbit is one. I know I'll be in duals and arena events. Keep it constructive, and post what you would love to see...and don't say perfect game balance because there is a difference between what some programers intend an ability to do and what you creative, mad-geniuses, of destruction do with those abilities.

"If people say it can't be done, then you're on the right path."
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Where dey at doe?

Where dey at doe?

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