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Packaged Themes

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Huckleberry
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Packaged Themes

I've been thinking about all the props we'll have, all the animations we'll have, and all the power effects we'll have and I realized that there is a tremendous opportunity for synergy if several were developed in concert with each other.

For example. Let's say we wanted a "Canes" Pack. For sale in the cash shop for $9.99 to include the following:

Props:

  • Normal wooden cane
  • fancy cane
  • hidden sword cane
  • conventional umbrella
  • fancy lace umbrella

Out of Combat Animations:

  • emote: twirl prop while standing
  • emote: open umbrella (must have an umbrella prop to use)
  • emote: strike ground with prop to make a point
  • walking animation: humerous like Charlie Chaplin
  • walking animation: foppish / distinguished
  • walking animation: aged and hunched over the prop
  • walking animation: injured and needing the prop for support

Combat Animations:

  • stance: en guard!
  • stance: foppish arm extended with prop touching the ground
  • stance: prop casually over the shoulder
  • entering combat: unsheath hidden sword from cane (can only be used with sheathed props)
  • power activation: lunge (or would this already exist for the rapier and swords props?)

Power Effects:

  • no clue what cane or umbrella associated power effects might exist, but if I did they would be here.

So as you can see, once we have a concept we can generate a package of goodies for use with that concept.

What other kinds of packages or themes do you think would be good to have?


I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
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Huckleberry wrote:
Huckleberry wrote:

Power Effects:

  • no clue what cane or umbrella associated power effects might exist, but if I did they would be here.

Any number of Penguin style effects. Shoot any number of projectiles.
A high tech sort of x-ray vision/scanner in a deployed umbrella for a support power to analyze your opponent to apply a debuff. Something like the umbrellas they use in The Kingsman.
A defensive stance shield for anytime you need to repel a hail of bullets, eye beam, projectile vomit. This could be deploying an umbrella to physically block or a gemstone in a cane that emits a counterbattery beam. This would probably be a bit more complicated since it would involve rendering a contested attack/defense animation (maybe not feasible).

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Planet10 wrote:
Planet10 wrote:
Huckleberry wrote:

Power Effects:

  • no clue what cane or umbrella associated power effects might exist, but if I did they would be here.

Any number of Penguin style effects. Shoot any number of projectiles.
A high tech sort of x-ray vision/scanner in a deployed umbrella for a support power to analyze your opponent to apply a debuff. Something like the umbrellas they use in The Kingsman.
A defensive stance shield for anytime you need to repel a hail of bullets, eye beam, projectile vomit. This could be deploying an umbrella to physically block or a gemstone in a cane that emits a counterbattery beam. This would probably be a bit more complicated since it would involve rendering a contested attack/defense animation (maybe not feasible).

That sounds more like they are props rather than power effects.

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blacke4dawn wrote:
blacke4dawn wrote:
Planet10 wrote:
Huckleberry wrote:

Power Effects:

  • no clue what cane or umbrella associated power effects might exist, but if I did they would be here.

Any number of Penguin style effects. Shoot any number of projectiles.
A high tech sort of x-ray vision/scanner in a deployed umbrella for a support power to analyze your opponent to apply a debuff. Something like the umbrellas they use in The Kingsman.
A defensive stance shield for anytime you need to repel a hail of bullets, eye beam, projectile vomit. This could be deploying an umbrella to physically block or a gemstone in a cane that emits a counterbattery beam. This would probably be a bit more complicated since it would involve rendering a contested attack/defense animation (maybe not feasible).

That sounds more like they are props rather than power effects.

what? no flying?

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Wait until you see the... nope, that would ruin the surprise.

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JWBullfrog wrote:
JWBullfrog wrote:
blacke4dawn wrote:
Planet10 wrote:
Huckleberry wrote:

Power Effects:

  • no clue what cane or umbrella associated power effects might exist, but if I did they would be here.

Any number of Penguin style effects. Shoot any number of projectiles.
A high tech sort of x-ray vision/scanner in a deployed umbrella for a support power to analyze your opponent to apply a debuff. Something like the umbrellas they use in The Kingsman.
A defensive stance shield for anytime you need to repel a hail of bullets, eye beam, projectile vomit. This could be deploying an umbrella to physically block or a gemstone in a cane that emits a counterbattery beam. This would probably be a bit more complicated since it would involve rendering a contested attack/defense animation (maybe not feasible).

That sounds more like they are props rather than power effects.

what? no flying?

Agreed. An umbrella used as a prop for flying, with an appropriate stance, would be a supercalifragilistic feature.

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Didn't think of travel powers

Didn't think of travel powers, that might be the only actual power effect using canes/umbrellas and not just a prop.

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blacke4dawn wrote:
blacke4dawn wrote:

Didn't think of travel powers, that might be the only actual power effect using canes/umbrellas and not just a prop.

Ok, how is that a power effect? It is just a flying super with a deployed umbrella (aka, prop)?

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Planet10 wrote:
Planet10 wrote:

A high tech sort of x-ray vision/scanner in a deployed umbrella for a support power to analyze your opponent to apply a debuff. Something like the umbrellas they use in The Kingsman.

The scanner part appears towards the end of the video.

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There could also be a control

There could also be a control / confuse power ala Sean Connery in Indiana Jones & the Last Crusade. It could be practical as shown in the clip or it could be something more akin to Starlord initiating a dance off at the end of the first Guardians of the Galaxy (aka your opponent just looking at you with the 'wtf' look on their face). The umbrella itself could have some hypnotic pattern on it to mesmerize. Any number of things.

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re: Power effects. You

re: Power effects. You guys have definitely come up with ideas. So for the "canes" package:

  • Defensive power animation: Use umbrella as a shield.
  • Power animation: Twirl prop for use as a barrier/shield or even offensive? why not?
  • Power animation: Spin umbrella about its axis horizontally
  • Power animation: spin umbrella above head or twirl prop above head.
  • Power activation effect: When twirling a prop or spinning an umbrella horizontally, a spiral effect is produced, which can be ray shaped or cone shaped.
  • Power activation effect: When twirling a prop or spinning an umbrella vertically above head, a PBAoE effect is produced with spiral effects or scattershot effects

And the point of this whole exercise is that some of these animations or effects would never be considered or be worth anyone's time to create unless and until one thinks about putting them into a whole package like this. The benefits of Aesthetic decoupling realized. (and by the way, I've used the term "prop" to refer to an animation or effect that can be used with other props, not just canes and umbrellas in this case, sop some people who don't use a cane might still want the pack for that animation, etc.)

What if we had a shoulderpet pack. Or a constellation of orbiting items pack. Or a backpack pack (which includes cool popouts and spider arms and stuff). Or a chains pack! Then we could introduce new martial arts styles this way, too; complete with new martial arts weapons. And so on, and so on...


I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
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Planet10 wrote:
Planet10 wrote:
blacke4dawn wrote:

Didn't think of travel powers, that might be the only actual power effect using canes/umbrellas and not just a prop.

Ok, how is that a power effect? It is just a flying super with a deployed umbrella (aka, prop)?

It can probably be done in both ways. I'm not sure if travel powers will actually use props but if so then it can also be done as being part of the powers own animation, though prop would probably be more efficient.

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blacke4dawn wrote:
blacke4dawn wrote:
Planet10 wrote:
blacke4dawn wrote:

Didn't think of travel powers, that might be the only actual power effect using canes/umbrellas and not just a prop.

Ok, how is that a power effect? It is just a flying super with a deployed umbrella (aka, prop)?

It can probably be done in both ways. I'm not sure if travel powers will actually use props but if so then it can also be done as being part of the powers own animation, though prop would probably be more efficient.

Well I was thinking of Mary Poppins but it could be something like a jetpack temp power. an animation of either the top of the umbrella spinning (Penguin) or just flying through the air under an open umbrella

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Wait until you see the... nope, that would ruin the surprise.

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You guys and your either-ors.

You guys and your either-ors. I don't think you've grasped the whole package concept yet.

There could easily be some travel power animations to go in this "canes" package.

1). Holding the prop aloft and suspending oneself below it. A la Mary Poppins. Can be used with any prop.
2). Holding the prop aloft and flying behind it as if being pulled. A la Mjolnir. Can be used with any prop.
3). Spinning the prop like a propeller and flying behind it. Can be used with any prop
4). Sitting on the prop and letting it hop along and jump. Can be used with any prop.
5). Spin around, holding the prop outstretched, a la Singing in the Rain, used as a teleport animation. Ca be used with any prop


I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
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So is the purpose to try to

So is the purpose to try to invent packs for the Devs or to suggest that packs be a thing? Because I'm definitely assuming it's going to be a thing


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I think this is just a

I think this is just a thought exercise. If the devs want to end up doing something like this, then great; maybe they will look on here for ideas. But really its just for us to brainstorm and share awesomeness.


I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
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I think it would definitely

I think it would definitely be worthwhile to know what groups / collections / packages of prop-power-effects will be available (or planned) so people can flesh out character ideas to know what is possible (or what will be possible in future issues/updates). Some character concepts can be formed just by being able to realize a persona or attitude.

I imagine this would be of great use to the player base, as not everyone will be thoroughly versed in all of the minutiae when it comes to character creation. And I think this will be the largest hurdle for players since they will have access to a multitude of options at every step. Getting lost in all of the options or overlooking options could hamper creativity.

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A "Books" pack:

A "Books" pack:

Props:

  • Arcane Spellbook (with customizable appearance to the cover and visible pages)
  • Scientific Reference (with customizable appearance to the cover and visible pages)
  • Demonic Flesh tome (with customizable appearance to the cover and visible pages)
  • Scroll (with customizable appearance)
  • 3-ring binder (with customizable appearance)
  • iPad (with customizable appearance)
  • Stone slab (with customizable appearance and visible carvings/engravings)
  • Novel (with customizable appearance)
  • Coloring book/sketchbook (with customizable appearance)

Out of Combat Animations:

  • emote "study":peruse through the book, as if studying it intently
  • emote "read": read book as if for entertainment
  • emote "doodle": write or draw in book absentmindedly
  • emote "sketch": draw in book while appearing to use something the character sees in the distance as a model
  • emote "shakeitout": hold book upside down, shaking it looking for something to fall as pages and miscellaneous crap drop to the ground
  • emote "waitone": hold a finger up while looking at your book type prop

Auras:

  • unlock loose papers for use as an element in other auras that use items, such as items flying around character, or tracks on the ground, etc.
  • book flaps along with character as if it were a bird (animates seamlessly with other animations that come with this pack)

Combat Animations:

  • stance: holding prop out in front of body with one hand or two, depending on prop, facing so character can read it if it is a book type prop
  • power activation: present reading face of book type prop to target (reading face becomes eligible emanation point)
  • power activation: write or draw in book type prop
  • power activation: swipe hand across reading surface of book type prop

Power Effects:

  • unlocks papers as an element for other power effects to implement

It seems like my ideas for packs are centered around props. I guess it is easier to imagine the possibilities when one starts with a prop. But ideas such as darkness, fire and ice could also be packs. We don't have to handicap ourselves by thinking what will or what won't already be included in the game. I imagine a lot of packs like fire and ice and darkness and such would already be included. But thinking of them in terms of packs allows us to explore the possibilities of embracing all the animation and visual possibilities. Instead of just saying "fire" will be included in the game. Think about all the fire-related coolness that could come with it and include that in your pack idea.


I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
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Well I think we shouldn't put

Well I think we shouldn't put an ordinary walking stick and umbrella behind a pay wall. That's something DCUO would do. Like if we make this pack I want it some really fancy walking sticks and umbrellas. Also if we do this we need a laser pack cram it full of just the coolest looking lasers, like so cool that the whole cast of DBZ blushes through their clothing. Do it.

not my video just one I lke ===> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6-SdIN0hsM

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I think people are getting

I think people are getting hung up on my mention of the cash shop. That one little line I added for humor. The previous line about the synergy of all these things when thought of as a pack together is the emphasis I was hoping to provide. If things are developed in packs like this, then I hope a great many of them would be included in the base game, and as they are completed subsequent packs would either be included in updates or offered for sale in the cash shop.

How about a "clowns" pack. I wonder what we could do with that?

A "spy vs. spy" pack?

A "WWII" pack?

A "retro sci-fi" pack?

and how could I forget... a "shields" pack!


I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
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How about a Sword pack? Get a

How about a Sword pack? Get a bunch of fancy swords and some awesome sword swinging animations. I would love a mad science pack too, I loves me some mad science!!

not my video just one I lke ===> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6-SdIN0hsM

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Huckleberry wrote:
Huckleberry wrote:

I think people are getting hung up on my mention of the cash shop. That one little line I added for humor. The previous line about the synergy of all these things when thought of as a pack together is the emphasis I was hoping to provide.

Think of it as a convenience factor (for the purposes of putting it in the cash shop), plus it will be something that outside observers can look at without going into the game itself. It would be a bundle of things, you would still pay whatever they cost individually (if anything). There are going to be hundreds (thousands?) of props + animations + effects spread across a wide variety of places. If someone is trying to solidify a concept or find concept "packs" like these can provide creative inspiration. I am going to guess that it will not be easy to discover all of the neat options hidden in the deep corners of the Character Creator. Giving new user's an easy access point for learning what is possible could only be a good thing.

Think about how many times in CoH that you started creating a new character and got stuck or just hit the Random button until you found something interesting. That is how I found the psychedelic parachute pants that I used on a couple characters.

I believe the Character Creator will be one of the largest stumbling blocks for new users. The combination of powers and aesthetic decoupling will throw people into the deep end right upfront before they even set foot inside the game world.

"Just, well, update your kickstarter email addresses, okay? Make sure they're current?" - warcabbit

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Well we should probably have

Well we should probably have prepackaged themes. It could be easier for people to get into it if you had the option to go "Alright how do you want to use your power?" and you could choose stuff like "want to shoot stuff out of my hands" or "I want to use a gun" and so forth and then the game could go "Alright how do want to shoot your gun" and you could choose to shoot it like a cowboy or use gun fu or shoot it like a soldier would then the game would ask "Alright what do you want to shoot?" and then you could choose your particle effect that would be applied to all your powers.

not my video just one I lke ===> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6-SdIN0hsM

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Planet10 wrote:
Planet10 wrote:

I believe the Character Creator will be one of the largest stumbling blocks for new users. The combination of powers and aesthetic decoupling will throw people into the deep end right upfront before they even set foot inside the game world.

Yes it might prove to be overwhelming if you let it become so. But I have to believe that just like CoH pretty much all of the "customization" options will have default settings so that a brand new player could literally ignore all of that if they wanted to. Remember that we all played CoH for years without being able to customize anything about our powers and we all got along pretty well. Even after power customization was offered it was never actually a "requirement" to be used; I saw plenty of people still using the default vanilla power colors and animations until CoH was shut down.

So if a new player wants to get lost in all the possibilities at the very beginning and spend hours in the costume creator before he/she even sets foot in the game proper that'll be mostly by their own choice. ;)

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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Considering that they have

Considering that they have said that there will be at least an easy and advanced "mode" for the CC and that there will be a number of presets for the body we can only assume that there will be presets for costume sets as well like CoH had, and like CoH hopefully they'll pick one of those costume presets at random upon character creation.

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One big way to help alleviate

One big way to help alleviate overwhelming new players with an abundance of choices in a character creator, or just help people realize the depth of stuff available in it, would be to have some automatic options. Most character creators have a "randomize every part of my character" feature. Some even have "randomize only this particular part" or "lock this in and randomize things that are not locked in". Not many can have options to load character parts related to a set or theme, but CoT will almost definitely have lots of character parts that could do that. Being able to load an entire premade set of costume options with a quick click means they can see a huge variety of individual different pieces quickly, and browse general themes. That could be taken further as well, and include locking functionality just like randomization, so you can lock in parts you know you are happy with and see what they will look like if the rest of a different premade costume is loaded on there.

It would could also help reduce the sheer amount of choices people are presented with at once if they can split parts up into themes like "magic" "tech" "animal" or whatever in menus. The trick there is that the naming and organization has to be the same for the set in various menus. I remember a couple times making characters in CoX where the texture or part I wanted for a look would not have quite the same name or be in quite the same menu group between different body parts despite it being part of a set.

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Planet10 wrote:
Planet10 wrote:

Think about how many times in CoH that you started creating a new character and got stuck or just hit the Random button until you found something interesting. That is how I found the psychedelic parachute pants that I used on a couple characters.

Never. Not ever.

Plant10 wrote:

I believe the Character Creator will be one of the largest stumbling blocks for new users. The combination of powers and aesthetic decoupling will throw people into the deep end right upfront before they even set foot inside the game world.

I honestly couldn't disagree with this more. I, and this is just my personal experience, never heard anyone ever say that there were too many options. Quite the opposite, really. I've definitely heard criticism and negative feedback on not having enough options in the various games I've played since CoH/V. YMMV.

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Cobalt Azurean wrote:
Cobalt Azurean wrote:
Planet10 wrote:

Think about how many times in CoH that you started creating a new character and got stuck or just hit the Random button until you found something interesting. That is how I found the psychedelic parachute pants that I used on a couple characters.

Never. Not ever.

Yeah I pretty much never used the "Random" button either. I had spent enough time in CoH's costume creator that I was pretty familiar with everything it offered and where I could find it so I never really left anything to "chance". I'm not saying there should not be a Randomize button in the game - I'm just agreeing that it wasn't used by everyone.

Cobalt Azurean wrote:
Planet10 wrote:

I believe the Character Creator will be one of the largest stumbling blocks for new users. The combination of powers and aesthetic decoupling will throw people into the deep end right upfront before they even set foot inside the game world.

I honestly couldn't disagree with this more. I, and this is just my personal experience, never heard anyone ever say that there were too many options. Quite the opposite, really. I've definitely heard criticism and negative feedback on not having enough options in the various games I've played since CoH/V. YMMV.

Games like CoH (and hopefully CoT) are a bit unique in regards to its character costumes. In most other games dealing with costumes is almost a pointless hassle that gets in the way of actually "playing" the game. In CoH/CoT costume creation is not just an afterthought; it's very much a fundamental core activity of "playing" the game. I almost don't mind the idea that many people might spend hours in the costume creator even before they jump into the city because coming up with cool unique costumes is really as much a part of the game as the rest of it.

Ultimately there's nothing stopping anyone from just hitting the "Random" button and being done with costume design in a matter of seconds if they truly don't care about that aspect of the game. But for those who care about their costumes messing around in the costume creator is in fact part of "playing" the game and therefore it doesn't really matter how long it takes them to do that.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:
Planet10 wrote:

I believe the Character Creator will be one of the largest stumbling blocks for new users. The combination of powers and aesthetic decoupling will throw people into the deep end right upfront before they even set foot inside the game world.

Yes it might prove to be overwhelming if you let it become so. But I have to believe that just like CoH pretty much all of the "customization" options will have default settings so that a brand new player could literally ignore all of that if they wanted to. Remember that we all played CoH for years without being able to customize anything about our powers and we all got along pretty well. Even after power customization was offered it was never actually a "requirement" to be used; I saw plenty of people still using the default vanilla power colors and animations until CoH was shut down.

So if a new player wants to get lost in all the possibilities at the very beginning and spend hours in the costume creator before he/she even sets foot in the game proper that'll be mostly by their own choice. ;)

I started CoV when I was about 13, around issue 8 I think, and I was positively giddy at all the options!

I tend to think if you're overwhelmed by customization, a game boasting the most customization ever might not be your fancy.


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desviper wrote:
desviper wrote:
Lothic wrote:
Planet10 wrote:

I believe the Character Creator will be one of the largest stumbling blocks for new users. The combination of powers and aesthetic decoupling will throw people into the deep end right upfront before they even set foot inside the game world.

Yes it might prove to be overwhelming if you let it become so. But I have to believe that just like CoH pretty much all of the "customization" options will have default settings so that a brand new player could literally ignore all of that if they wanted to. Remember that we all played CoH for years without being able to customize anything about our powers and we all got along pretty well. Even after power customization was offered it was never actually a "requirement" to be used; I saw plenty of people still using the default vanilla power colors and animations until CoH was shut down.

So if a new player wants to get lost in all the possibilities at the very beginning and spend hours in the costume creator before he/she even sets foot in the game proper that'll be mostly by their own choice. ;)

I started CoV when I was about 13, around issue 8 I think, and I was positively giddy at all the options!

I tend to think if you're overwhelmed by customization, a game boasting the most customization ever might not be your fancy.

This.

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I love the idea of packs,

I love the idea of packs, purchaseable or not. The books pack especially made me smile, though it missed what I thought was the most obvious option: just casting a spell from the book, with or without gestures from the other hand.

I also think that options can be overwhelming; not in how many precisely, but in how they're organized (or not) Champions Online was somewhat frustrating, not because of how many options there were but because of how many completely irrelevant options you had to sift through. Ooh, completely boring and and bland Letter emblems! A dozen different gun emblems!

Then there were the options that may have been relevant to certain character concepts, but not to the concept you are building right now. All of the techno and robo options in the world are going to be useless fluff when you're trying to build a fantasy knight character.

I don't have a solution to offer, I just hope the Devs are thinking about how organized and accessible the costume options will be.

~ DariusWolfe
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DariusWolfe wrote:
DariusWolfe wrote:

I love the idea of packs, purchaseable or not. The books pack especially made me smile, though it missed what I thought was the most obvious option: just casting a spell from the book, with or without gestures from the other hand.

I also think that options can be overwhelming; not in how many precisely, but in how they're organized (or not) Champions Online was somewhat frustrating, not because of how many options there were but because of how many completely irrelevant options you had to sift through. Ooh, completely boring and and bland Letter emblems! A dozen different gun emblems!

Then there were the options that may have been relevant to certain character concepts, but not to the concept you are building right now. All of the techno and robo options in the world are going to be useless fluff when you're trying to build a fantasy knight character.

I don't have a solution to offer, I just hope the Devs are thinking about how organized and accessible the costume options will be.

Seems like this could be alleviated by using a series of collapsible/expandable menus/sub-menus organized by category/type. E.g. Have all the alphanumeric logos grouped together such that if you don't want one of them for your character you can simply skip that sub-menu, but if you want one you can just click to expand that sub-menu and find what you want.

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Cobalt Azurean wrote:
Cobalt Azurean wrote:
desviper wrote:
Lothic wrote:
Planet10 wrote:

I believe the Character Creator will be one of the largest stumbling blocks for new users. The combination of powers and aesthetic decoupling will throw people into the deep end right upfront before they even set foot inside the game world.

Yes it might prove to be overwhelming if you let it become so. But I have to believe that just like CoH pretty much all of the "customization" options will have default settings so that a brand new player could literally ignore all of that if they wanted to. Remember that we all played CoH for years without being able to customize anything about our powers and we all got along pretty well. Even after power customization was offered it was never actually a "requirement" to be used; I saw plenty of people still using the default vanilla power colors and animations until CoH was shut down.

So if a new player wants to get lost in all the possibilities at the very beginning and spend hours in the costume creator before he/she even sets foot in the game proper that'll be mostly by their own choice. ;)

I started CoV when I was about 13, around issue 8 I think, and I was positively giddy at all the options!

I tend to think if you're overwhelmed by customization, a game boasting the most customization ever might not be your fancy.

This.

Ok, so you guys are seriously just going to say that you had a clear and concise picture of every single character you ever created upfront and never had to search for a costume that suited their power set or theme? I call bullshit on that. Are you going to say that you were never inspired by an event in game or something that you witnessed outside of CoH and you needed to find an aesthetic to match it when you created a new character?

I am going to tell you that there were a handful of my characters that 'found' their true costume by hitting the random button a few dozen times to find their look or to inspire a name (and my friends did the same). Don't discount the power of discovering some hidden costume piece or combination to inspire a whole character arc.

There might be some character creator parallels that can be drawn between CoX & CoT, but I think people are vastly under estimating what people will be confronted by in this evolution. We, as experienced CoX veterans, might not have a hard time with wrapping our heads around this, but consider what a new player that you introduce to this game will have to grapple with as they are thrust into this arena. We have had multiple years to poke and prod at dev to figure out what the overall landscape will be. Think about what the newbie player experience will be (I am talking about someone that has no background here beyond maybe watching The Flash or SuperGirl).

All I am trying to say here is that there needs to be a lot of examples and hand holding upfront to ease people into creating a character. Themed packages or example characters or walkthrough videos that show aspects of where the engine can go will inspire a lot of creativity. But there needs to be some direction to lead people to those assets so they can leverage them for their own creations too. In a game where you can have any power emanate from a non default location or prop with any number of effects with a fully customizable costume, there is a lot for a new user to grapple with here. There is no guarantee that they will reject or embrace the architecture. What I am saying is that there needs to be enough of a roadmap in place for them to see where the possibilities can lead. If we are just going to take the "if you're overwhelmed by customization, too bad, gtfo" stance, I will just disagree with you.

"Just, well, update your kickstarter email addresses, okay? Make sure they're current?" - warcabbit

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The point isn't to have it in

The point isn't to have it in your mind on day -150, it's to mess around for 5 hours until it's perfect :p


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Planet10 wrote:
Planet10 wrote:

Ok, so you guys are seriously just going to say that you had a clear and concise picture of every single character you ever created upfront and never had to search for a costume that suited their power set or theme? I call bullshit on that. Are you going to say that you were never inspired by an event in game or something that you witnessed outside of CoH and you needed to find an aesthetic to match it when you created a new character?

No need to get defensive about this but again I'll make myself clear that out of the hundreds of costumes I designed in CoH over the years for dozens of characters I never once used the "Randomize" button for a single character. Not once.

On the other hand you've clearly jumped to some kind of weirdly hyperbolic conclusion that every time I used the costume creator in that game that I knew going into it every last detail of a new costume I wanted to create the very second I started. Of course that didn't happen.

I suppose I'm the type of person that would usually start from a few items I wanted to use and go from there in a process of trial and error. I simply never chose to let the game start me off with a completely 100% "random" combination of items. I personally would not see that as "helpful" to my method.

Planet10 wrote:

I am going to tell you that there were a handful of my characters that 'found' their true costume by hitting the random button a few dozen times to find their look or to inspire a name (and my friends did the same). Don't discount the power of discovering some hidden costume piece or combination to inspire a whole character arc.

Whatever method you use to create your costumes in games like this is fine with me - like I would care what you do regardless. If the "Randomize" button helped you come up with ideas for character concepts or costumes then more power to you. Like I said I would never suggest that CoT NOT have a Randomize button. I simply expressed the fact that I would likely never use it myself. Sorry you think that's BS for whatever reason...

Planet10 wrote:

There might be some character creator parallels that can be drawn between CoX & CoT, but I think people are vastly under estimating what people will be confronted by in this evolution. We, as experienced CoX veterans, might not have a hard time with wrapping our heads around this, but consider what a new player that you introduce to this game will have to grapple with as they are thrust into this arena. We have had multiple years to poke and prod at dev to figure out what the overall landscape will be. Think about what the newbie player experience will be (I am talking about someone that has no background here beyond maybe watching The Flash or SuperGirl).

I'm not "anti-help-the-newbie" at all. I'm simply looking at this from the long term perspective.

If anything I'd rather the CoT costume creator be as expansive as possible, even if that might make it somewhat challenging to use for the first time player. It's only going to take most people a short time to "get acquainted" with how it works and I'd rather it be suited for the eventual "experienced user" who's going to use it hopefully for years to come than worry about a slightly steep learning curve in the first few minutes/hours of use.

Paraphrasing the famous quote, "If you design something for idiots to use only idiots will want to use it". Let's give the average CoT player the benefit of the doubt shall we?

Planet10 wrote:

All I am trying to say here is that there needs to be a lot of examples and hand holding upfront to ease people into creating a character. Themed packages or example characters or walkthrough videos that show aspects of where the engine can go will inspire a lot of creativity. But there needs to be some direction to lead people to those assets so they can leverage them for their own creations too. In a game where you can have any power emanate from a non default location or prop with any number of effects with a fully customizable costume, there is a lot for a new user to grapple with here. There is no guarantee that they will reject or embrace the architecture. What I am saying is that there needs to be enough of a roadmap in place for them to see where the possibilities can lead. If we are just going to take the "if you're overwhelmed by customization, too bad, gtfo" stance, I will just disagree with you.

Again I have nothing against "tutorials" or things that "help new players" know what to do. I'm just wondering if you're making a mountain out of a molehill with this. Just how hyper-complex do you think MWM will allow all of this to be? I'm quite sure they'll keep everything "simple" enough to keep the majority happy with it. For what it's worth I'm sure there are three-year olds out there who know how to use an iPad better than I do. Just saying...

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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Y'all gotta learn to be more

Y'all gotta learn to be more concise :p


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You can have a well designed

You can have a well designed interface with clean menus providing an intuitive experience that helps new players and still have tons of depth in the content.

Granted, lots of developers struggle with those "finely polished" details, but it can be done.

A poorly crafted and thought out interface doesn't really get better with a small amount of content either. I've seen games that have been drastic examples of good and bad interfaces.

This goes beyond the character creator alone. The UI is the main way a player interacts with the game, and it nearly the only thing early players will see since they'll have little beyond the character creator. A good interface, well thought out menus, floating mouseover tooltips, etc are essential.

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TheInternetJanitor wrote:
TheInternetJanitor wrote:

This goes beyond the character creator alone. The UI is the main way a player interacts with the game, and it nearly the only thing early players will see since they'll have little beyond the character creator. A good interface, well thought out menus, floating mouseover tooltips, etc are essential.

Of course. Again I've never suggested that CoT should have crappy GUIs regardless of how "complex" it is to learn.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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Sure, I just meant the whole

Sure, I just meant the whole "we don't want to spook people" vs "have as much depth as possible" argument is more of an interface issue and not determined by amount of content alone.

In a perfect world we'd have our cake and eat it too.

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TheInternetJanitor wrote:
TheInternetJanitor wrote:

Sure, I just meant the whole "we don't want to spook people" vs "have as much depth as possible" argument is more of an interface issue and not determined by amount of content alone.

In a perfect world we'd have our cake and eat it too.

True enough. The game could either provide a billion unique costume items / aesthetic options or ten of each and the main difference would be how well the GUI handles your ability to access any of them in a meaningful, organized way.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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Planet10 wrote:
Planet10 wrote:
Cobalt Azurean wrote:
desviper wrote:
Lothic wrote:
Planet10 wrote:

I believe the Character Creator will be one of the largest stumbling blocks for new users. The combination of powers and aesthetic decoupling will throw people into the deep end right upfront before they even set foot inside the game world.

Yes it might prove to be overwhelming if you let it become so. But I have to believe that just like CoH pretty much all of the "customization" options will have default settings so that a brand new player could literally ignore all of that if they wanted to. Remember that we all played CoH for years without being able to customize anything about our powers and we all got along pretty well. Even after power customization was offered it was never actually a "requirement" to be used; I saw plenty of people still using the default vanilla power colors and animations until CoH was shut down.

So if a new player wants to get lost in all the possibilities at the very beginning and spend hours in the costume creator before he/she even sets foot in the game proper that'll be mostly by their own choice. ;)

I started CoV when I was about 13, around issue 8 I think, and I was positively giddy at all the options!

I tend to think if you're overwhelmed by customization, a game boasting the most customization ever might not be your fancy.

This.

Ok, so you guys are seriously just going to say that you had a clear and concise picture of every single character you ever created upfront and never had to search for a costume that suited their power set or theme? I call bullshit on that. Are you going to say that you were never inspired by an event in game or something that you witnessed outside of CoH and you needed to find an aesthetic to match it when you created a new character?

I am going to tell you that there were a handful of my characters that 'found' their true costume by hitting the random button a few dozen times to find their look or to inspire a name (and my friends did the same). Don't discount the power of discovering some hidden costume piece or combination to inspire a whole character arc.

There might be some character creator parallels that can be drawn between CoX & CoT, but I think people are vastly under estimating what people will be confronted by in this evolution. We, as experienced CoX veterans, might not have a hard time with wrapping our heads around this, but consider what a new player that you introduce to this game will have to grapple with as they are thrust into this arena. We have had multiple years to poke and prod at dev to figure out what the overall landscape will be. Think about what the newbie player experience will be (I am talking about someone that has no background here beyond maybe watching The Flash or SuperGirl).

All I am trying to say here is that there needs to be a lot of examples and hand holding upfront to ease people into creating a character. Themed packages or example characters or walkthrough videos that show aspects of where the engine can go will inspire a lot of creativity. But there needs to be some direction to lead people to those assets so they can leverage them for their own creations too. In a game where you can have any power emanate from a non default location or prop with any number of effects with a fully customizable costume, there is a lot for a new user to grapple with here. There is no guarantee that they will reject or embrace the architecture. What I am saying is that there needs to be enough of a roadmap in place for them to see where the possibilities can lead. If we are just going to take the "if you're overwhelmed by customization, too bad, gtfo" stance, I will just disagree with you.

Call bullsh!t all you like, that's what happened. Its good to know that you can't accept someone else's experience as valid just because it doesn't align with yours.
As for the "too bad, gtfo stance", tone it down, man. You're coming off a tad melodramatic and seemingly blowing this out of proportion.

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Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:

I'm not "anti-help-the-newbie" at all. I'm simply looking at this from the long term perspective.

If anything I'd rather the CoT costume creator be as expansive as possible, even if that might make it somewhat challenging to use for the first time player. It's only going to take most people a short time to "get acquainted" with how it works and I'd rather it be suited for the eventual "experienced user" who's going to use it hopefully for years to come than worry about a slightly steep learning curve in the first few minutes/hours of use.

Paraphrasing the famous quote, "If you design something for idiots to use only idiots will want to use it". Let's give the average CoT player the benefit of the doubt shall we?

I am also looking at a long term perspective. I too want the CC options to be as expansive as possible. I am absolutely not advocating that the CC options & UI be streamlined into a cookie cutter machine that spits out characters for less experienced idiots. There is an art to making the UI useful, accessible and not overwhelming. I worked on and helped shape the UI design of MS Office applications when they shifted from toolbar drop down hell into the context sensitive menus that they utilize today. There absolutely will be so many options and sliders and color charts/selectors that the user can/will get lost and confused (or aggravated).

It will be difficult to know about the myriad of options available and where to find them if the UI isn't robust. The idea of having Themed Packages could go a long ways towards educating the player base about what is available and possibly where to find those options (if the package has categorized listings of what is included to direct their creative exploits). Themed Packages could also help inspire the creative process (in a similar manner to what I experienced via jamming the Randomize button in CoH).

"Just, well, update your kickstarter email addresses, okay? Make sure they're current?" - warcabbit

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desviper wrote:
desviper wrote:

I started CoV when I was about 13, around issue 8 I think, and I was positively giddy at all the options!

I tend to think if you're overwhelmed by customization, a game boasting the most customization ever might not be your fancy.

Cobalt Azurean wrote:
Planet10 wrote:

If we are just going to take the "if you're overwhelmed by customization, too bad, gtfo" stance, I will just disagree with you.

Call bullsh!t all you like, that's what happened. Its good to know that you can't accept someone else's experience as valid just because it doesn't align with yours.
As for the "too bad, gtfo stance", tone it down, man. You're coming off a tad melodramatic and seemingly blowing this out of proportion.

There is a reason I made that specific comment in quotation marks. They made statements to the effect of never having problems crafting a character and did not claim that they never had trouble finding a look/feel for their character (at that point of the conversation). Hence my call of BS. They did not fully express their experience so that I could draw upon it and relate (or at least sympathize with their process). I can understand and appreciate their process (even if it differs from my own), but no one effortlessly slides through an experiences every single time.

"Just, well, update your kickstarter email addresses, okay? Make sure they're current?" - warcabbit

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Planet10 wrote:
Planet10 wrote:
Cobalt Azurean wrote:
Planet10 wrote:

If we are just going to take the "if you're overwhelmed by customization, too bad, gtfo" stance, I will just disagree with you.

Call bullsh!t all you like, that's what happened. Its good to know that you can't accept someone else's experience as valid just because it doesn't align with yours.
As for the "too bad, gtfo stance", tone it down, man. You're coming off a tad melodramatic and seemingly blowing this out of proportion.

There is a reason I made that specific comment in quotation marks. They made statements to the effect of never having problems crafting a character and did not claim that they never had trouble finding a look/feel for their character (at that point of the conversation). Hence my call of BS. They did not fully express their experience so that I could draw upon it and relate (or at least sympathize with their process).

Well for the record I never "made statements to the effect of never having problems crafting a character and did not claim that [I] never had trouble finding a look/feel for [a] character". I simply said that I never used the randomize button. You had to assume quite a bit to go from one extreme to the other in my case. ;)

Cobalt Azurean wrote:

I can understand and appreciate their process (even if it differs from my own), but no one effortlessly slides through an experiences every single time.

Again I never said I never had trouble completing a costume in CoH. I recall spending hours tinkering with every last detail on most of the costumes I made. I just never used the randomize button as a starting point. YMMV. *shrugs*

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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Planet10 wrote:
Planet10 wrote:
desviper wrote:

I started CoV when I was about 13, around issue 8 I think, and I was positively giddy at all the options!

I tend to think if you're overwhelmed by customization, a game boasting the most customization ever might not be your fancy.

Cobalt Azurean wrote:
Planet10 wrote:

If we are just going to take the "if you're overwhelmed by customization, too bad, gtfo" stance, I will just disagree with you.

Call bullsh!t all you like, that's what happened. Its good to know that you can't accept someone else's experience as valid just because it doesn't align with yours.
As for the "too bad, gtfo stance", tone it down, man. You're coming off a tad melodramatic and seemingly blowing this out of proportion.

There is a reason I made that specific comment in quotation marks. They made statements to the effect of never having problems crafting a character and did not claim that they never had trouble finding a look/feel for their character (at that point of the conversation). Hence my call of BS. They did not fully express their experience so that I could draw upon it and relate (or at least sympathize with their process). I can understand and appreciate their process (even if it differs from my own), but no one effortlessly slides through an experiences every single time.

The vast majority of us, or "you guys" that you were referred to were simply stating that we didn't use the Random button during any and/or all character creation, which one of "us guys" again restated above. And, again, I think you're making more out of this than it really is, including adding additional addendums to which wasn't the original argument, such as events that happen in-game that would change our character appearance/concept, which really has nothing to do with initial character creation as that would be post character generation.

Furthermore, we also stated that for a game that literally touts "Make Anyone", it is highly suggestive that there will be a plethora of options available, e.g. character customization, during character creation and that for someone who may get overwhelmed at the suggested bounty of options, perhaps this may not be the game for them, which is a logical conclusion to come to. Not, as you put it, and I'm paraphrasing here, "IF U NO LIKE, GTFO".

Finally, if you're going to craft remarks or counter-points to someone specific, I would suggest you don't quote someone else entirely and reply. It may get taken the wrong way.

Thank you for generating and posting a reasonable response.

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Cobalt Azurean wrote:
Cobalt Azurean wrote:

Furthermore, we also stated that for a game that literally touts "Make Anyone", it is highly suggestive that there will be a plethora of options available, e.g. character customization, during character creation and that for someone who may get overwhelmed at the suggested bounty of options, perhaps this may not be the game for them, which is a logical conclusion to come to. Not, as you put it, and I'm paraphrasing here, "IF U NO LIKE, GTFO".

I would like to explore this line of though a bit further. If there are a bountiful amount of options to choose from, and we can make anyone, why would this game not be for someone that gets lost in the character creator (or can't find the option they are seeking)?

"Just, well, update your kickstarter email addresses, okay? Make sure they're current?" - warcabbit

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Planet10 wrote:
Planet10 wrote:
Cobalt Azurean wrote:

Furthermore, we also stated that for a game that literally touts "Make Anyone", it is highly suggestive that there will be a plethora of options available, e.g. character customization, during character creation and that for someone who may get overwhelmed at the suggested bounty of options, perhaps this may not be the game for them, which is a logical conclusion to come to. Not, as you put it, and I'm paraphrasing here, "IF U NO LIKE, GTFO".

I would like to explore this line of though a bit further. If there are a bountiful amount of options to choose from, and we can make anyone, why would this game not be for someone that gets lost in the character creator (or can't find the option they are seeking)?

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Cobalt Azurean wrote:
Cobalt Azurean wrote:

Put up or shut up time. If all you can do is respond with a meme, I do not see why I should be taking this much flak.

"Just, well, update your kickstarter email addresses, okay? Make sure they're current?" - warcabbit

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Cobalt Azurean wrote:
Cobalt Azurean wrote:

Finally, if you're going to craft remarks or counter-points to someone specific, I would suggest you don't quote someone else entirely and reply. It may get taken the wrong way.

Thank you for generating and posting a reasonable response.

To be fair, you're right. I cut down the quotes to make it less cumbersome and (to my eye, less confused). So I can collate the entire thing right here.

Cobalt Azurean wrote:
Planet10 wrote:
Cobalt Azurean wrote:
desviper wrote:
Lothic wrote:
Planet10 wrote:

I believe the Character Creator will be one of the largest stumbling blocks for new users. The combination of powers and aesthetic decoupling will throw people into the deep end right upfront before they even set foot inside the game world.

Yes it might prove to be overwhelming if you let it become so. But I have to believe that just like CoH pretty much all of the "customization" options will have default settings so that a brand new player could literally ignore all of that if they wanted to. Remember that we all played CoH for years without being able to customize anything about our powers and we all got along pretty well. Even after power customization was offered it was never actually a "requirement" to be used; I saw plenty of people still using the default vanilla power colors and animations until CoH was shut down.

So if a new player wants to get lost in all the possibilities at the very beginning and spend hours in the costume creator before he/she even sets foot in the game proper that'll be mostly by their own choice. ;)

I started CoV when I was about 13, around issue 8 I think, and I was positively giddy at all the options!

I tend to think if you're overwhelmed by customization, a game boasting the most customization ever might not be your fancy.

This.

Ok, so you guys are seriously just going to say that you had a clear and concise picture of every single character you ever created upfront and never had to search for a costume that suited their power set or theme? I call bullshit on that. Are you going to say that you were never inspired by an event in game or something that you witnessed outside of CoH and you needed to find an aesthetic to match it when you created a new character?

I am going to tell you that there were a handful of my characters that 'found' their true costume by hitting the random button a few dozen times to find their look or to inspire a name (and my friends did the same). Don't discount the power of discovering some hidden costume piece or combination to inspire a whole character arc.

There might be some character creator parallels that can be drawn between CoX & CoT, but I think people are vastly under estimating what people will be confronted by in this evolution. We, as experienced CoX veterans, might not have a hard time with wrapping our heads around this, but consider what a new player that you introduce to this game will have to grapple with as they are thrust into this arena. We have had multiple years to poke and prod at dev to figure out what the overall landscape will be. Think about what the newbie player experience will be (I am talking about someone that has no background here beyond maybe watching The Flash or SuperGirl).

All I am trying to say here is that there needs to be a lot of examples and hand holding upfront to ease people into creating a character. Themed packages or example characters or walkthrough videos that show aspects of where the engine can go will inspire a lot of creativity. But there needs to be some direction to lead people to those assets so they can leverage them for their own creations too. In a game where you can have any power emanate from a non default location or prop with any number of effects with a fully customizable costume, there is a lot for a new user to grapple with here. There is no guarantee that they will reject or embrace the architecture. What I am saying is that there needs to be enough of a roadmap in place for them to see where the possibilities can lead. If we are just going to take the "if you're overwhelmed by customization, too bad, gtfo" stance, I will just disagree with you.

Call bullsh!t all you like, that's what happened. Its good to know that you can't accept someone else's experience as valid just because it doesn't align with yours.
As for the "too bad, gtfo stance", tone it down, man. You're coming off a tad melodramatic and seemingly blowing this out of proportion.

Desviper made the "I tend to think if you're overwhelmed by customization, a game boasting the most customization ever might not be your fancy." aka "if you're overwhelmed by customization, too bad, gtfo" comment and you (Cobalt Azurean) gave the thumbs up via "This." in a manner of agreeing completely with the aforementioned quote.

Hence, I looped back around to ask "I would like to explore this line of though a bit further. If there are a bountiful amount of options to choose from, and we can make anyone, why would this game not be for someone that gets lost in the character creator (or can't find the option they are seeking)?"

If this is just arguing to argue, we can just drop it. If there is an actual point to be made for why complexity & variation being a roadblock for new players, I think we should explore it.

"Just, well, update your kickstarter email addresses, okay? Make sure they're current?" - warcabbit

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kk someone lock this shit it

kk someone lock this shit it's getting toxic


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Planet10 wrote:
Planet10 wrote:
Cobalt Azurean wrote:

Finally, if you're going to craft remarks or counter-points to someone specific, I would suggest you don't quote someone else entirely and reply. It may get taken the wrong way.

Thank you for generating and posting a reasonable response.

To be fair, you're right. I cut down the quotes to make it less cumbersome and (to my eye, less confused). So I can collate the entire thing right here.

Cobalt Azurean wrote:
Planet10 wrote:
Cobalt Azurean wrote:
desviper wrote:
Lothic wrote:
Planet10 wrote:

I believe the Character Creator will be one of the largest stumbling blocks for new users. The combination of powers and aesthetic decoupling will throw people into the deep end right upfront before they even set foot inside the game world.

Yes it might prove to be overwhelming if you let it become so. But I have to believe that just like CoH pretty much all of the "customization" options will have default settings so that a brand new player could literally ignore all of that if they wanted to. Remember that we all played CoH for years without being able to customize anything about our powers and we all got along pretty well. Even after power customization was offered it was never actually a "requirement" to be used; I saw plenty of people still using the default vanilla power colors and animations until CoH was shut down.

So if a new player wants to get lost in all the possibilities at the very beginning and spend hours in the costume creator before he/she even sets foot in the game proper that'll be mostly by their own choice. ;)

I started CoV when I was about 13, around issue 8 I think, and I was positively giddy at all the options!

I tend to think if you're overwhelmed by customization, a game boasting the most customization ever might not be your fancy.

This.

Ok, so you guys are seriously just going to say that you had a clear and concise picture of every single character you ever created upfront and never had to search for a costume that suited their power set or theme? I call bullshit on that. Are you going to say that you were never inspired by an event in game or something that you witnessed outside of CoH and you needed to find an aesthetic to match it when you created a new character?

I am going to tell you that there were a handful of my characters that 'found' their true costume by hitting the random button a few dozen times to find their look or to inspire a name (and my friends did the same). Don't discount the power of discovering some hidden costume piece or combination to inspire a whole character arc.

There might be some character creator parallels that can be drawn between CoX & CoT, but I think people are vastly under estimating what people will be confronted by in this evolution. We, as experienced CoX veterans, might not have a hard time with wrapping our heads around this, but consider what a new player that you introduce to this game will have to grapple with as they are thrust into this arena. We have had multiple years to poke and prod at dev to figure out what the overall landscape will be. Think about what the newbie player experience will be (I am talking about someone that has no background here beyond maybe watching The Flash or SuperGirl).

All I am trying to say here is that there needs to be a lot of examples and hand holding upfront to ease people into creating a character. Themed packages or example characters or walkthrough videos that show aspects of where the engine can go will inspire a lot of creativity. But there needs to be some direction to lead people to those assets so they can leverage them for their own creations too. In a game where you can have any power emanate from a non default location or prop with any number of effects with a fully customizable costume, there is a lot for a new user to grapple with here. There is no guarantee that they will reject or embrace the architecture. What I am saying is that there needs to be enough of a roadmap in place for them to see where the possibilities can lead. If we are just going to take the "if you're overwhelmed by customization, too bad, gtfo" stance, I will just disagree with you.

Call bullsh!t all you like, that's what happened. Its good to know that you can't accept someone else's experience as valid just because it doesn't align with yours.
As for the "too bad, gtfo stance", tone it down, man. You're coming off a tad melodramatic and seemingly blowing this out of proportion.

Desviper made the "I tend to think if you're overwhelmed by customization, a game boasting the most customization ever might not be your fancy." aka "if you're overwhelmed by customization, too bad, gtfo" comment and you (Cobalt Azurean) gave the thumbs up via "This." in a manner of agreeing completely with the aforementioned quote.

Hence, I looped back around to ask "I would like to explore this line of though a bit further. If there are a bountiful amount of options to choose from, and we can make anyone, why would this game not be for someone that gets lost in the character creator (or can't find the option they are seeking)?"

If this is just arguing to argue, we can just drop it. If there is an actual point to be made for why complexity & variation being a roadblock for new players, I think we should explore it.

I honestly don't think either side can express it any clearer or more concise than it already has in an attempt for more in-depth understanding, so I'm bowing out of this particular exchange.

Just an aside, and I don't mean this is a parting shot, but you saying, "Put up or shut up" can come across as overly aggressive as a post. I actually had already made a post stating (since deleted) that I wasn't going to engage any further with you from now on due to how, from what I've noticed, quite a few of your posts come across as either brusque or challenging and lead to extensive, repetitive argumentative statements from all parties involved. Yes, I know that it takes two (or more) to engage in an argument, but seeing as I'm currently in a discussion with you specifically and been most recently on the receiving end of one of those posts, I would take it as a kindness if you would be more mindful of the wording on your posts. Thank you.

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I had characters that were

I had characters that were 'made' for the costume, characters that were 'made' for the powerset, and characters that showed up in my head, while I was in the shower, where I had to invent everything else. I could and did often spend hours in Icon, tweaking the costume. Other times, I'd put together a backstory and post it in the Costuming thread, on the CoH forums, then let people fling a dozen ideas at my head.

Alternately, I'd post a 'bad' costume with the text and folks would suggest improvements. That was one of my favorite threads!

Be Well!
Fireheart

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So, a "shields" package...

So, a "shields" package...

Props:

  • Buckler
  • Round (everything from hoplite to medieval to Captain America)
  • Kite
  • heater
  • Tower/Scutum
  • Riot
  • Mycenean Figure Eight
  • Zulu Nguni
  • Net/Cape/Sash (rete)
    <== the net can be swung to block and parry defensively and also thrown, so I've included it here

These are the basic shapes; but with the ability to customize details, patterns, materials and colors, I expect that any concept of shield can be made from one of these.

Out of combat animations:

  • Resting on shield (this might be impossible with all the body sliders we'll be given, depending upon whether shield size will scale with certain body sliders or not)
  • Out of combat option #1: Carry shield on back
  • Out of combat option #2: keep shield in hand
  • Idle animation: adjust fit of shield type prop whether worn on back or in hand
  • emote "primp": looking into the shield type prop, character adjusts hair, picks teeth, etc.
  • emote: "balance": character balances prop on finger for a few seconds
  • toss shield which converts into a hovering platform a la Patriot

Combat Animations

  • stance: shield stance
  • take shield off shield arm and throw it with other hand, a la captain America. Shield type prop returns and is caught by throwing hand (replaces onto shield arm after short delay if another throwing attack is not queued up)
  • shield slam/bash into opponent
  • shield slam/bash into ground
  • spin around, ending with a backhanded shield slam, can also be used for a backhanded shield throw (reserved for longer animation times normally associated with more powerful attacks)
  • use shield type prop for an uppercut associated with knock ups, knock backs, stuns, etc.
  • hunker behind shield
  • barrier powers can use shield animations when self-centered barrier effects are proc'd

Power Effects

  • Shield shaped barriers effects
  • barriers can use shield prop animations as an option when they proc
  • shield shaped projections for cone effects
  • unlock shields as a type of shape to be used with swarms that coalesce into shapes
  • unlock shields for auras that have orbiting or following props

Did I miss anything?


I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
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Huckleberry wrote:
Huckleberry wrote:

Out of combat animations:

  • Resting on shield (this might be impossible with all the body sliders we'll be given, depending upon whether shield size will scale with certain body sliders or not)
  • Out of combat option #1: Carry shield on back
  • Out of combat option #2: keep shield in hand
  • Idle animation: adjust fit of shield type prop whether worn on back or in hand
  • emote "primp": looking into the shield type prop, character adjusts hair, picks teeth, etc.
  • emote: "balance": character balances prop on finger for a few seconds
  • toss shield which converts into a hovering platform a la Patriot

Power Effects

  • Shield shaped barriers effects
  • barriers can use shield prop animations as an option when they proc
  • shield shaped projections for cone effects
  • unlock shields as a type of shape to be used with swarms that coalesce into shapes
  • unlock shields for auras that have orbiting or following props

Did I miss anything?

For an OoC animation: Maybe something like the movie-style "I am going to beat you with my bare hands" pre-combat maneuver where the two accomplished combatants toss aside their armaments. Aka toss aside main hand weapon, slough off shield, then go into some idle hand to hand stance.

For a power effect (probably a toggle), have the shield held out in front of you with your main hand weapon either around the side or over the top. Sort of like what you see with pistol/riot shield when they advance into an engagement. Or like a Spartan phalanx stance. This is a bit more complicated, but allow your attacks to flow from this stance or transition to/from this stance. Essentially make it a new toggleable default resting state.

"Just, well, update your kickstarter email addresses, okay? Make sure they're current?" - warcabbit

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Planet10 wrote:
Planet10 wrote:

For an OoC animation: Maybe something like the movie-style "I am going to beat you with my bare hands" pre-combat maneuver where the two accomplished combatants toss aside their armaments. Aka toss aside main hand weapon, slough off shield, then go into some idle hand to hand stance.

For a power effect (probably a toggle), have the shield held out in front of you with your main hand weapon either around the side or over the top. Sort of like what you see with pistol/riot shield when they advance into an engagement. Or like a Spartan phalanx stance. This is a bit more complicated, but allow your attacks to flow from this stance or transition to/from this stance. Essentially make it a new toggleable default resting state.

I like that OoC animation idea. I know I would use it. "/em throwdown" And I like that you introduced it knowing that it wouldn't be an appropriate or maybe even a possible animation for some character concepts. That's what I like about thinking in terms of packages like this. Too often we get forum posters poo-pooing someone else's idea because of some cases where it wouldn't fit or work right. But instead, you're thinking of a cool animation that would be good in this case, and also would be good for a few more cases as well. And that's cool. It would just be disabled in some cases until and if the devs develop alternate versions to take into consideration all the edge cases.

I think your second idea would classify as a stance. And I agree it would be applicable to a shields package. I could also see someone assuming this stance with a fetish instead of a shield, or maybe even a book or another weapon, or heck just a bare hand splayed out in a warding gesture.


I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
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Going to go add that figure 8

Going to go add that figure 8 sheild to the prop thread ;)


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The "Ninja" Package:

The "Ninja" Package:


Props:

  • katana
  • wakizashi
  • tanto
  • jutte
  • sai
  • claws
  • kusarigama
  • kyoketsu shoge

all props are customizable and several variations of each should be offered

Costume Items:

  • Ninja hood
  • ninja mask
  • 2-toed tabi shoes and socks
  • shinobu outfit (jacket, belt, leggings, hand wraps, etc.)

Out of Combat Animations:

  • ninja run
  • ninja dash, a fast-movement travel mode that looks like a combination of superspeed and teleport. The mechanics act as teleport with the limitation that only a solid surface can be targeted, so it uses something like the AoE attack targeting mechanic to cast. The animation looks like the character dashes and jumps in a zigzag pattern so fast that they only appear for a split second at the changes of direction of the zigzag, with nothing but blurs in between. Can be used to pass from one elevated position to another such as from building to building or telephone pole to telephone pole
  • what kind of emotes should we introduce with ninjas?

Combat Animations

  • Throwing attack from hidden pockets (can be used with any visual effect element)
  • two-handed "chain" stance can be used when equipped with chain type weapons such as kusarigama and kyoketsu shoge, but will also be available for use with ropes, chains and other chain-like props. In this stance, one hand holds one end of the prop while the other hand slowly swings the other end. Note: the chain is not treated as a chain, but rather as a solid physics object. The devs have already stated that they will not be using chains in the game because of the physics associated with them. However, we can still simulate the appearance of chain with a rigid prop and the right set of animations.
  • reverse grip of props. Enable props to be held with the pommel-end at the thumb and the business end at the knife edge of the hand. Most props, even pistols should be eligible for this grip.
  • reverse grip stance. A low crouching combat stance befitting a blade weilder with a reverse grip
  • smoke bomb. Thrown an item to the ground at the character's feet. Can be accompanied by any selection of associated effects and powers
  • scatter attack. The motions associated with scattering caltrops in the direction of the attack. Can be used for cone and AoE attack animations and be used with any selection of associated effects.

Power Effects

  • makes shuriken, kunai, caltrops and throwing spikes available for use as visual elements in power effects
  • makes smokescreen/puff of smoke available for use as a visual element in power effects, typically assigned to powers affecting perception, evasion and threat management
  • ninja dodge. Using the same visual effects as the ninja dash travel power, when the character successfully evades an attack, the character appears to blur quickly to one side and then returns to the starting position, might also be used for some short-to-medium ranged attacks to give the appearance they were conducted at melee range

What did I miss?


I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
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I really like this packages

I really like this packages idea. I hope they can start implementing this post-launch, maybe one new package every few updates between new issues.

Compulsively clicking the refresh button until the next update.

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Having thought more about

Having thought more about packs in general I would have to say that while large packs like this wouldn't really hurt there needs to be smaller packs as well, like just the non-/combat animations, just props, just costume pieces, and so on. I don't think that going with just single items and "mega-packs" options would be a good idea.

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I guess it bears repeating a

I guess it bears repeating a third time. The whole idea of packs is to identify the synergy of thinking.

We have props, and we even have a prop request thread.
We have animations and an animation suggestion thread.
And a costume thread, etc., etc.

A "package" is a way of thinking about what we can do when we combine them all into a bigger picture. I think all the packages that aren't completed by launch could be included in following updates or put in the cash shop.


I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
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In another thread, someone

In another thread, someone mentioned having multiple arms, and this seemed like a good seed idea for another package.

We could call it the Multiple Arms package.

Props: (these props would take up the "backpack" slot or "cape" slot perhaps)

  • Spider arms reminiscent of the Arachnos pack
  • Squiggly Octopus arms
  • Actual arms akin to how many Hindu Gods are portrayed
  • Robot arms
  • Contraption of a thousand devices type of utility arms
  • Spectral tendrils
  • Pseudopodia
  • Patchwork of assorted animal arms
  • Floating versions of all the above that aren't actually connected to the back of the character
  • Give us the option of tailoring the number of arms visible (even if only a limited number can be implemented for game purposes such as emanation points)

There would have to be several customized versions of each. Small details like eyeballs in the palms of the hands, manipulator claws, tools, bracelets, etc., etc. would be welcome. Another customization option would be whether the character had these arms coming out of the back or actually clipping from the same shoulders as the characters existing arms.

Costume Items

  • Include an entire assortment of items associated with Hindu and Buddhist cultures such as southeast asian-associated items like large Ram-thai crowns, facial jewelry, garlands, curled shoulder armor, underarm capes, etc.
  • Versions of a good number of existing costume pieces for the torso that are ripped or torn in the back where the arms protrude
  • Entirely new hand options applicable for all hands, even those on characters without multiple arms, to include:
    • Eyeballs in the palms of hands (even the hands of a character without multiple arms)
    • Mouths in the palms of hands
    • Crystals in the palm of hands
    • Gun Barrels in the palms of hands
    • Ring and wrist jewelry with connecting chains
  • New Auras associated with religious iconographic Aureolas like Christian, Hindu, Buddhist and others
  • The ability to replace the character's existing arms with arms that look like some of the prop items above, Such as tentacles, or specific robotic styles for commonality.
  • Whether we can add costumes to the multiple arms will depend on whether the devs give them bones or just make them boneless 3D meshes. If the latter, then a lot more options would need to be presented to depict as many costume permutations as possible.

Out of Combat Animations:

  • Idle: Various twitches and movements associated with bored hands
  • Dance: Portions of the 1000 arms dance like this:

  • emote: Arms retraction into the character's back (obviously applicable for the arms out of the back option)
  • emote: Arms unifying into the character's existing two arms (applicable for the all arms share the same two shoulders option)
  • emote: Juggling with the arms
  • emote: Arms going through the character's pockets
  • emote: Character reading animation in which the character is supported by the arms
  • Duplicate all other levitation animations and substitute using the arms for support instead (this would apply to emote and movement animations)
  • Travel: Use arms like wings

Combat Animations:

  • stance: Prayerful horse stance with folded hands
  • power activation: arms to encase character in a defensive fashion for use with blocks, healing and other appropriate powers
  • power activation: arms to point out in all directions, could be used for shields, PBAoE, Healing, etc.
  • power activation: arms continuously pulse outward in succession as if expelling a substance. Useful for shields, PBAoE, healing or other continuously applied effects
  • power activation: orient arms for a combined ray-like effect, this would share many of the same properties as constellation of objects type animations
  • power activation: Melee and Ranged Attacks - Use these arms for punches instead of character's arms.
  • power activation: Ranged Attacks - Allow the character to perform melee type animations, but have the arms perform remote actions at the target (would telescope the arms, so it would look best for arm choices capable of depicting ranged actions such as for floating arms or rubberized or telescoping arms)
  • power activation: Use arms to push the ground at the character's feet for displacement-associated powers
  • power activation: Use the arms in an animation like pulling on a rope. This can be used for debuffing targets or removing debuffs from targets or even for actually pulling targets or moving the character towards a target's location

Power Effects:

  • Shared with the constellation of objects pack, the ability to have multiple simultaneous emanation points around the character

That's about all I could come up with in the time it took me to write this. What did I miss? Any suggestions?


I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
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This post in the animation

This post in the animation suggestion thread got me to thinking an entire package theme could be made around each element.

Water Air Earth Fire
Props
  • orb of water
  • water balloon
  • herring
  • change material of any other prop to water
  • hovering fish
  • orbiting stream of water
  • seashell
  • one-handed squirt gun
  • two handed squirt gun
  • dust devil
  • paper airplane
  • pinwheel
  • hovering fanblades
  • folding hand fan
  • orbiting bird
  • orbiting insect(s)
  • rock
  • gem
  • handful of sand always falling 'tween fingers
  • change material of any other prop to rock
  • ...any other prop to sand
  • ...any other prop to mud
  • shoulder earthworm
  • slingshot
  • orb of fire
  • everburning flame in hand
  • shoulder salamander
  • change material of any other prop to fire
  • ...any other prop to cinders
  • ...any other prop to dripping molten lava
  • hot poker
  • burning log
  • burning torch
  • flamethrower
Out of combat animations
  • rest on chair of water
  • make silly goldfish lips
  • assorted swimming movements
  • bubbles from mouth
  • knock head from side to side as if to drain water from ears
  • form pool of water and scry in it
  • turn ground into water then submerge and emerge
  • watch miniature elementals be silly
  • rest on cushion of air
  • Head turns into balloon, floats away then pops
  • bird lands on outstretched finger
  • butterfly lands on finger
  • gust of air from below effects clothing and hair
  • swirl to create and watch dust devil
  • rest on pillar of stone
  • rest on pillar of sand
  • build sand castle
  • submerge into ground and emerge again
  • brush dust off self
  • rest on chair of fire
  • breathe fire circus act
  • belch fire
  • ignite fart
  • watch miniature elementals be silly
  • flip open zippo lighter repeatedly
  • flip open and ignite zippo lighter
  • strike a match and watch it burn
combat animations (assigned to power activations)
  • purse lips to spit
  • hold hand out and rotate as if to pour from prop
  • push hands forward like treading water backwards
  • grasp hands together to squirt
  • rotate arms in figure 8
  • wave prop back and forth
  • puff checks to blow
  • lift leg and point anus to fart
  • act as if generating a dust devil
  • stomp to lift rock and punch it
  • lift rocks and windmill for AoE attacks
  • stomp to lift wave of rock
  • all of above with hand motions instead of stomps
  • fire slingshot (uses slingshot prop)
I am drawing a blank for combat animations that would be specific to fire and that wouldn't already be included for every other power or prop out there. I suppose breathe fire would be a more intense version of a scream animation.
Power Effects
  • add splashes to melee attacks
  • directed spray of water
  • encapsulating bubble of water for persistent effects
  • gush of water onto ground
  • pool(s) of water gurgle up from below
  • shields of water
  • seahorses, starfish, clams and minnows as particles
  • flying sharks/jellyfish for ranged attacks
  • rain for AoE
  • splashes of water for explosions
  • vortexes of swirling air
  • billowing leaves as particles
  • visual lines as if the air was illustrated for ranged attacks
  • puff of air raises dust around target for AoE
  • clouds as projectiles
  • clouds as AoE
  • butterflies as particles
  • colorable gas
  • rock covers target for persistent effects
  • sand covers target...
  • mud covers target...
  • add dirt crumble and dust to melee attacks
  • rocks and stones as projectiles
  • shields of rock
  • shields of sand
  • rain of rocks
  • falling meteor(s)
  • spears of rock
  • spray of pebbles
  • sparks as particles
  • turn ground into bubbling lava
  • swirling firestorm for AoE
  • rain of fire for AoE
  • add a fire trail to melee attacks
  • add a burning flames on target for persistent effects
  • add welding sparks to melee attacks
  • add floating embers to melee attacks
Movement Modes
  • Ride a wave
  • surf (on prop?)
  • sit on blob of water
  • swimming motion
  • create pool of water and jump in, jump out within LoS(teleport)
  • ride on head of sea serpent that has loops into and out of surface
  • ride a dust devil
  • fly a hang glider
  • hold onto baloons
  • turn into mist
  • ride cloud
  • ride wave of earth
  • ride a rolling rock
  • erupting earth pushes character into a "jump"
  • sink into ground to appear elsewhere
  • ride a floating patch of earth
  • ride on head of burning dragon spirit
  • burn into ash and reappear elsewhere(teleport)
  • burn into a cloud of ash and cinders
  • turn into a column of fire and leap, stretching into a great arc
Costume Items
  • mask & snorkle
  • old-timey bathing suit
  • 'waterwings' (inflatable floats on arms)
  • inflatable tube around waist
  • gills on neck
  • webbed hands
  • fish mouth
  • fish tail
  • dorsal fin(shark)
  • dorsal fin(seahorse)
  • barnacles material
  • coral material
  • Rune of Elemental Water available as patch-emblem-tattoo
  • clouds for hair
  • special air package wings
  • clouds material
  • rocketeer helmet
  • flyboy helmet & goggles
  • Rune of Elemental Air available as patch-emblem-tattoo
  • sand skin
  • marble skin
  • mud skin
  • gem hair
  • sand material
  • Earth roots boots
  • rockfists
  • Rune of Elemental Fire available as patch-emblem-tattoo
  • flaming hair (how many styles?)
  • burnt coal material
  • fire damaged material
  • flame skin
  • burnt coal skin
  • burnt skin
  • strategically placed flames
  • Rune of Elemental Earth available as patch-emblem-tattoo
Auras
  • Constantly dripping
  • water droplets particle effects
  • marine animals particle effects
  • bubbles particle effects
  • surrounded by dust devil (with leaves or city trash, depending on environment)
  • butterfly particle effects
  • look of illustrated wind blowing
  • clouds
  • obscured by mist
  • perpetually dusty
  • sand sloughs off periodically
  • burning eyes
  • smoke
  • floating cinders particle effect
  • heat distortion effect

Does anyone have anything else to add or that I might have missed?

..it just occurred to me I completely forgot ice... which would probably be its own category rather than mixing it in with the water package. I'm done for now, so if anyone wants to brainstorm an Ice package, go for it.


I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
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wow, this is a huge work you

wow, this is a huge work you've done ! ^^ Congrats for that, i'm sure this will be usefull


Suivez l'avancement du jeu City of Titans en Français sur https://titanscity.com
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Ya know I REALLY like the

Ya know I REALLY like the idea of a sword cane. It would involve animations from both the cane pack and the sword pack. with only one new animations: unsheathing the sword.
and BTW, I love the Kingsmen clip!

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Coming from you, I'll take

Coming from you, I'll take that as a great recognition! Your website www.titanscity.com must surely take you much more effort than most are willing to put forth. Please keep up the great work with that!


I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
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Streetfighter Package

Streetfighter Package

Not to be confused with the legendary arcade games of the same name, this is the package that contains all the props, animations and effects for an unpowered (or at most a very agile and strong) character who uses fists, kicks, grapples and throws and might use small handheld implements such as knives, brass knuckles, etc. Character designs with Auras around the hands would be a nice candidate for this package as well. Note that the animations associated with most of this package could easily be used with other props, it is just that this package has this intended design space in mind in its creation.

    Props:
  • Brass knuckles
  • Butterfly knife
  • Switchblade
  • Extendible razor (think arts and crafts kind)
  • Straight Razor
  • (I was going to put short clubs, escrima sticks and batons in here, but those would be a better fit in a law enforcement package or martial arts package.)
  • Chain wrapped around hand
  • Chain used as a short flail
  • Brick (may be incorporated as a sprite used for ranged attacks as well)
  • Broken bottle
    Costume items:
  • Hand wraps tight and tidy boxing style
  • Loose hand wraps, more untidy, beaten and worn
  • Karate kid Headband (customizable with City of Titans LogomakerTM)
  • Battered headband
  • Do Rag (skullcap)
  • Hankerchief headband tied in back like pirate (or would this belong in the pirates package? Would we care about overlaps?)
  • Hankerchief with 4 corner knots
  • Beanie (note that a rolled up or folded beanie sitting higher on the head like something used by military special forces is not the look we're going for here. This is more of a skater's beanie worn lower)
  • Fingerless gloves
    Out of combat animations:
  • Finger Snapping (a la West Side Story see this link starting at 1:30 = https://youtu.be/4jzIyP5wN_I?t=90 )
  • The James Dean, 50's greaser hair combing motions this guy illustrates
  • emote: Arthur Fonzerelli's "no need to comb" gesture made famous here
  • Toss knife into the ground (no need to pick it up, as an emote it will just disappear after a few seconds and be in the character's hand again)
  • shadowboxing
  • Stretching shoulders
  • Pushups (endless loop until interrupted)
  • Clean fingernails with knife
  • Emote "/lean" against an imaginary vertical surface which puts the character's back and one foot against that surface. A player would need to perform it close to an actual in-game vertical surface if the player wanted to make it look like the character is leaning against it.
  • Spit at the ground with attitude
    Combat Animations (note that not all animations will work with every character design or body sliders, it is up to the player to decide whether to use them or not)(note also that animations associated with disciplined martial arts are not included here except for some inspired by boxing):
  • Bouncing boxing stance (combat idle, neutral pose between attack animations)
  • Crouching Knifefighter stance (combat idle, neutral pose between attack animations)
  • Emote inserted randomly during combat idle stance animation to use the back of hand or wrist to wipe your nose (use check box to have it active, with frequency options often or rare)
  • Emote inserted randomly during combat idle stance animation to loosen up shoulders by shrugging (use check box to have it active, with frequency options often or rare)
  • Emote inserted randomly during combat idle stance animation to stand up and bounce on toes and return to combat stance (use check box to have it active, with frequency options often or rare)
  • Emote inserted randomly during combat idle stance animation to shuffle feet back and forth like a cocky boxer (use check box to have it active, with frequency options often or rare)
  • Use a Kip Up to return to standing when knocked down
  • Backflip available as an animation when an attack has been evaded or dodged
  • Unlimber a butterfly knife (obviously used for butterfly knife prop, but the flamboyant nature of it can be used to fancifully flash any handheld prop about) used as a draw/stow weapon transition animation between out of combat idle pose and combat idle pose
  • Unlimber a switchblade (obviously used for switchblade prop, but the quick wrist motion can be used for other props if the player thinks it might work for the character.) used as a draw/stow weapon transition animation between out of combat idle pose and combat idle pose
  • Chug back and then break a perfectly fine bottle and brandish it, used as a draw weapon transition animation between out of combat idle pose and in-combat idle pose
  • Jab
  • Cross
  • Uppercut
  • Knockout punch full body uppercut
  • Haymaker
  • Spinning backhand
  • Knife swipe across
  • Knife thrust
  • Flurry of Blows horizintal (jabs)
  • Flurry of blows vertical (uppercuts)
  • Maximum Combo Flurry (a bunch of jabs, crosses, and uppercuts too fast to really see)
  • Knife flip and throw (in one motion, let it go and grab the point, then hurl it)
  • Head butt
  • ENRAGED!! with fists clenched and chest out, pull elbows back and cry to the heavens (most likely used for self buffs and PBAoE actions)

Note also that while some of these seem so obvious as to be included into the base game anyway, now those things have a package to belong to for checking off the box that it has been done rather than just assuming they've been done.

    Power Effects:
  • Audio sounds associated with punching to be included for attack animations
  • Audio sounds associated with knives to be included for attack animations
  • Audio sounds associated with blunt force impact of hard materials to be included for attack animations
  • Shockwave style indications of air movement during combat animations
  • Shockwave style impacts ripple out from targets of successful attack
  • Jagged exclamations emanate from head as if to show rage

I couldn't think of too many power effects, but I guess that's appropriate considering this set is targeted at and optimized for less-flashy powersets.
I also couldn't think of any fast-travel modes which would be associated with this package.

What else did I miss or what else could make this even better?


Edited to add suggestions

I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
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Props: the broken bottle is

Props: the broken bottle is rather iconic

Out of combat animations: if you're going to get all '50s with the finger snapping you've got to include the hair combing: https://youtu.be/vB8NKy3f9YA?t=97

- - - - -
Hail Beard!

Support trap clowns for CoT!

Huckleberry
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Darth Fez wrote:
Darth Fez wrote:

Props: the broken bottle is rather iconic

Out of combat animations: if you're going to get all '50s with the finger snapping you've got to include the hair combing: https://youtu.be/vB8NKy3f9YA?t=97

The mark of true genius is the realization that it could never have been anything else. You, my friend, are brilliant.


I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
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Mental Powers

Mental Powers

    Props
  • A brain
  • A brain in a jar
  • A brain with a long central nerve stem
  • A large crystal
  • A shrunken head (held dangling by its hair)
  • A life size head (held dangling by its hair)<-- would be really cool if facial expressions were animated for power activation
  • A coin on a string
  • A ring on a string
  • A pocket watch on a string
  • A handheld strobe light/flashlight
    Costume Items
  • Third Eye In Forehead horizontally oriented like a normal eye (allow full eye customization for this eye)
  • Third Eye in forhead slit vertically (allow full eye customization for this eye)
  • Parabolic dish in forehead
  • Gem in forehead (sized so it clips through and be seen if spandex headgear is worn)
  • A few designs for Spandex headwear optimized to take advantage of forehead items (e.g. with a hole or a 'border element' designed to be cropped through)
  • Little Parabolic Dish Sprouting from top of head
  • Enlarged brain (exposed)
  • Enlarged brain in transparent case
  • Enlarged brain in solid case
  • Amulet of the all-seeing eye
  • Replace the character's head with a condensed animated stormcloud complete with lighning flashes
  • Bound Legs (perpectually slightly bent and bound together like the Mu Mystics from City of Villains, could be several design options from mummy wraps, high tech wraps, chains, replace legs with ectoplasm, etc.)
  • Bound Arms (also several design options.) Note that props and interactions with environment would still animate as normal with the same motions and coordinates, just not using the characters arms to do it, (e.g.: to talk on phone, keep the phone in the animation so it looks like its just floating)
    Out of Combat Animations
  • Bound Hover. Replace all Running, Walking, Dance, etc. with hovering.(think of the Arachnos Mu Mystics from City of Villains) This is less of an added animation than it is a replacement of existing lower-body animations with the static, bound legs costume item
  • Emote: play a game of "guess which card" with yourself using psychic test flash cards, nodding your head to show you get it right every time (or do you?)
  • unlock the ability to perform most other emotes or out of combat animations with your arms crossed (also applicable with the bound arms costume option)
  • start playing hackeysack but then stop using your feet and keep playing
  • place fingers of one hand upon your temple during fast travel flying animations
    Combat Animations
  • Bound Legs. As with out of combat animations, replace all lower body animations for combat animations with static bound legs costume item
  • place fingers of one hand to head when activating power
  • place fingers of both hands to head when acticvating a power
  • place both arms in a forward T-pose, lifting chin up and closing eyes when activating a power
  • lean forward, giving the 'evil eye' for power activation
  • Cross arms and perform a quick nod not unklike I dream of jeannie
  • perform an exaggerated around the world neck roll, finalizing with a forward head jab as if delivering a knock-out punch with the mind
  • bob and weave the head as if listening to your own personal symphony (good for channeled attacks)
    Power Effects
  • Forehead used as an emanation point for powers
  • Item dangling from hand used as an emanation point for powers
  • strobe effect (meant for flashlights, dangling shiny objects like coins, and for head gems, but obviously can be used with any emanation point)
  • classic concentric rings ray effect
  • classic concentric expanding spheres effect
  • Make scary faces available as a particle effect for powers
  • Make laughing faces available as a particle effect for powers
  • Make text punctuation marks associated with classic comics censorship @#$%! available as a particle effect for powers
  • Make sinuous wave field available for powers

Note:

    the bound legs idea could and probably should be its own separate Package Theme, because it lends itself to so many other implementations. I know there have been other posts in other threads about this, but here are a few suggestions I came up with on the spot for replacing the character's lower body with:
  • a snake body
  • a whirlwind
  • a firenado
  • a mass of insects
  • an octopus
  • a pogo stick
  • a cybernetic unicycle
  • roots

I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
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Gambler Package

Gambler Package

The gambler package brings together all the odd gambling related props, costumes, animations and effects. Can you think of any more?

    Props:
  • Coin
  • Casino Chip
  • Big Dice
  • Furry Dice
  • Money Wheel
  • Deck of Cards
  • d20
  • Scratcher (lottery ticket you scratch the silver coating)
  • sleeve holstered derringer
    Costume items:
  • Blazer
  • Top hat with cards
  • bowler hat
  • shirt with vest and arm garter (casino dealer iconic uniform) both male and female versions
  • visor hat (a visor without the cap, used by bankers and dealers who work under bright lights)
  • bunny girl outfit
  • handlebar mustache
  • sideburns
  • wild west pompadour hair
  • the pimpiest iconic pimp outfit you can think of:
    • wide brimmed hat
    • bellbottom trousers
    • enormous belt buckle (probably in common with rodeo package?)
    • oversized sunglasses
    • fur trenchcoat
    • gold chains
    • dollar sign necklace
    • unbuttoned shirt
  • fuzzy dice hanging from belt
  • add an alternate version of existing costume items that have pockets to have a playing card sticking out of those pockets, this should also include hats with hatbands
  • Cigar (would adding tobacco products make this a T for Teen game?)
    Out of Combat Animations:
  • crouch and throw dice "em/rollinbones" include a way to see the random result of two 6-sided dice
  • Rochambeaux. Give this emote a visual 3..2..1.. countdown so other players may participate and either let the player choose ("em/rock", "em/paper", "em/scissors"or randomly select rock, paper or scissors for the player for a single emote command "em/rps". We could even expand this by including lizard "em/lizard" and spock "em/spock" or in toto for a random result with "em/rpsls"
  • shuffle deck of cards fancifully
  • shuffle deck of cards and fumble it, flinging cards about (or make this a random occurrence during a normal card shuffle emote)
  • flip coin, catch and repeat "em/coin"
  • flip coin for result "em/headsortails"
  • flip a coin and use characters basic ranged attack to hit it mid-air "em/trickshot"
    In combat animations:
  • Throw prop as if dealing it from other hand (animation meant for a cards from a deck of cards prop, but leave it up to the players to determine if it works for any other prop of their choosing)
  • Scratch furiously at a prop in hand (optimized for scratcher prop, but motion could be used for writing on a notepad, or swiping right on smartphone app)
  • spring concealed weapon from sleeve 'holster' into hand as the transition animation into combat. Tuck it back in when leaving combat.
  • carry cards in hand, splayed as if holding a poker hand, and have other hand hovering nearby for a quick pick of one (I'm thinking this is more of a magic trick animation and less of a gambling animation; but once written, why delete?)
    Auras:
  • Unlocks dice as an element to be used in auras that use them, such as those flying around the character, etc.
  • Unlocks playing cards as an element for auras that use them
  • Unlocks coins and casino chips as an element to be used for auras that use them
  • Unlocks U.S. Paper currency as an element to be used for auras that use them
    Power Effects:
  • When using dice as a prop, animate attacks such that a hit will visibly display a 4,5,6,8,9 or 10 with two dice. A critical hit will display a 7 or 11 on two dice, and a miss will display a 2,3 or 12. (these are based on the come-out roll of craps) (Edit: yes I know there will be no accuracy in this game and thus no misses, but there WILL be dodge, evade and other defensive measures and the successful employment of these is what I had in mind with this)
  • Use dice as a an element for power effects that use them
  • Use playing cards as a an element for power effects that use them
  • Use coins/casino chips as a an element for power effects that use them

I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
Renkage
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Huckleberry wrote:
Huckleberry wrote:

Gambler Package

The gambler package brings together all the odd gambling related props, costumes, animations and effects. Can you think of any more?

    Props:
  • Coin
  • Casino Chip
  • Big Dice
  • Furry Dice
  • Money Wheel
  • Deck of Cards
  • d20
  • Scratcher (lottery ticket you scratch the silver coating)
  • sleeve holstered derringer
    Costume items:
  • Blazer
  • Top hat with cards
  • bowler hat
  • shirt with vest and arm garter (casino dealer iconic uniform) both male and female versions
  • visor hat (a visor without the cap, used by bankers and dealers who work under bright lights)
  • bunny girl outfit
  • handlebar mustache
  • sideburns
  • wild west pompadour hair
  • the pimpiest iconic pimp outfit you can think of:
    • wide brimmed hat
    • bellbottom trousers
    • enormous belt buckle (probably in common with rodeo package?)
    • oversized sunglasses
    • fur trenchcoat
    • gold chains
    • dollar sign necklace
    • unbuttoned shirt
  • fuzzy dice hanging from belt
  • add an alternate version of existing costume items that have pockets to have a playing card sticking out of those pockets, this should also include hats with hatbands
  • Cigar (would adding tobacco products make this a T for Teen game?)
    Out of Combat Animations:
  • crouch and throw dice "em/rollinbones" include a way to see the random result of two 6-sided dice
  • Rochambeaux. Give this emote a visual 3..2..1.. countdown so other players may participate and either let the player choose ("em/rock", "em/paper", "em/scissors"or randomly select rock, paper or scissors for the player for a single emote command "em/rps". We could even expand this by including lizard "em/lizard" and spock "em/spock" or in toto for a random result with "em/rpsls"
  • shuffle deck of cards fancifully
  • shuffle deck of cards and fumble it, flinging cards about (or make this a random occurrence during a normal card shuffle emote)
  • flip coin, catch and repeat "em/coin"
  • flip coin for result "em/headsortails"
  • flip a coin and use characters basic ranged attack to hit it mid-air "em/trickshot"
    In combat animations:
  • Throw prop as if dealing it from other hand (animation meant for a cards from a deck of cards prop, but leave it up to the players to determine if it works for any other prop of their choosing)
  • Scratch furiously at a prop in hand (optimized for scratcher prop, but motion could be used for writing on a notepad, or swiping right on smartphone app)
  • spring concealed weapon from sleeve 'holster' into hand as the transition animation into combat. Tuck it back in when leaving combat.
  • carry cards in hand, splayed as if holding a poker hand, and have other hand hovering nearby for a quick pick of one (I'm thinking this is more of a magic trick animation and less of a gambling animation; but once written, why delete?)
    Auras:
  • Unlocks dice as an element to be used in auras that use them, such as those flying around the character, etc.
  • Unlocks playing cards as an element for auras that use them
  • Unlocks coins and casino chips as an element to be used for auras that use them
  • Unlocks U.S. Paper currency as an element to be used for auras that use them
    Power Effects:
  • When using dice as a prop, animate attacks such that a hit will visibly display a 4,5,6,8,9 or 10 with two dice. A critical hit will display a 7 or 11 on two dice, and a miss will display a 2,3 or 12. (these are based on the come-out roll of craps)
  • Use dice as a an element for power effects that use them
  • Use playing cards as a an element for power effects that use them
  • Use coins/casino chips as a an element for power effects that use them

Well, if you are going to add a d20 as a specific dice. Then shouldn't you add all the major types of dice? Like d4's, d8's, d10's and d12's. D6's are assumed. As they are the basic die type.

Now imagining a hero that tosses out the correct dice type and amount to cast D&D spells.

Unarmed combat best combat. Every media
Foradain
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Renkage wrote:
Renkage wrote:

Well, if you are going to add a d20 as a specific dice. Then shouldn't you add all the major types of dice? Like d4's, d8's, d10's and d12's. D6's are assumed. As they are the basic die type.

Now imagining a hero that tosses out the correct dice type and amount to cast D&D spells.

Dice of Damage FTW!

Ironically, the less acute the angles on the edges of the dice, the more damage each die does.

Foradain, Mage of Phoenix Rising.
Foradain's Character Conclave
Millennium City Refugee.
Avatar courtesy of Satellite9

Huckleberry
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Renkage wrote:
Renkage wrote:

Well, if you are going to add a d20 as a specific dice. Then shouldn't you add all the major types of dice? Like d4's, d8's, d10's and d12's. D6's are assumed. As they are the basic die type.

Now imagining a hero that tosses out the correct dice type and amount to cast D&D spells.

That idea did occur to me, but I was trying to limit myself to the theme of gambling. I should have removed the reference to d20, but the inner geek in me couldn't resist it.

I LOVE your idea of a D&D player actually using dice for the damage of his or her powers. I can see a cosplayer hero doing that for sure, somehow channeling the GAMEMASTER to empower him.

Edit: Heck, I can see a little cult-like group of adventurers in some suburban neighborhood of Titan City with just these powers, whom the player character has to work with or against as part of some story arc. That would be so great!
Edit of the Edit: I would even love to see them do an homage to "The Guild" which got Felicity Day's career started. See this video, which inspired this video:

which is how I found out about them.


I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
Cobalt Azurean
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Huckleberry][quote=Renkage
Huckleberry wrote:

I LOVE your idea of a D&D player actually using dice for the damage of his or her powers.

This reminds me of Setzer Gabbiani from Final Fantasy VI, which a friend of mine is currently playing through for the first time. Good stuff.

Renkage
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Huckleberry wrote:
Huckleberry wrote:
Renkage wrote:

Well, if you are going to add a d20 as a specific dice. Then shouldn't you add all the major types of dice? Like d4's, d8's, d10's and d12's. D6's are assumed. As they are the basic die type.

Now imagining a hero that tosses out the correct dice type and amount to cast D&D spells.

That idea did occur to me, but I was trying to limit myself to the theme of gambling. I should have removed the reference to d20, but the inner geek in me couldn't resist it.

I LOVE your idea of a D&D player actually using dice for the damage of his or her powers. I can see a cosplayer hero doing that for sure, somehow channeling the GAMEMASTER to empower him.

Edit: Heck, I can see a little cult-like group of adventurers in some suburban neighborhood of Titan City with just these powers, whom the player character has to work with or against as part of some story arc. That would be so great!
Edit of the Edit: I would even love to see them do an homage to "The Guild" which got Felicity Day's career started. See this video, which inspired this video:

which is how I found out about them.

Oh heck. A superhero group of in universe nerds sounds amazing. With their themes (or even how they got their powers) being around various nerdy things. Leader of the group called "The DM".

Unarmed combat best combat. Every media
Huckleberry
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Time package

Time package

This is a package of concepts related to time and time manipulation

Props

  • a pocketwatch
  • a stopwatch
  • clock pointers (shorter wider hour hand, longer thinner minute hand, or rapier-like second sweep) in different styles (gothic, modern, ornate, etc.)
  • Pendulum
  • large round clock
  • astrolabe (the bigger, more ornate and complex the better)
  • hourglass

Costume Items

  • Add a pocketwatch chain as an alternate detail to existing costume items, as appropriaye (e.g. vests and dress slacks)
  • Various style of wristwatch
  • Add a clock face as a logo option
  • add an hourglass as a logo option
  • add a pendulum as a logo option
  • add a digital clock with hours and minutes as a logo option (would be extra special if it showed Titan City time on it!)
  • add an alternate option to have a digital readout on the forearm of appropriate tech style costume items
  • add roman numerals from 1 to 12 as a costume overlay
  • create a clock oriented wallpaper pattern for use on capes and clothing
  • replace the torso with a clockwork clock face, all the internal cogs and springs being visible and the ability to see through the character in the gaps between gears and stuff
  • add a flux capacitor backpack design

Out of Combat Animations

  • emote: "em/bored" look at wrist, exasperated
  • emote: "em/back2" zip forward a few meters, leaving two burning streaks on the ground behind you and then assume the Marty McFly pose:

Combat Animations

  • stand erect, using arms semaphore style to portray clock hands
  • make an homage to Nox, perhaps one of the best superhero villains ever written, from the absolutely amazing Wakfu animated series
  • hold pocket/stop watch in hand and click it with thumb
  • turn over prop (meant for hourglass but players can suprise us with other props creative usage, especially when power effects and emanation points are accounted for)

Power Effects

  • A large Sundial sprouts from the floor that casts a quickly revolving shadow (used for ground-based AoE effects as well as a summoned item. See the Devices support power set for two example powers that use summoned items)
  • a large clock face appears on the ground and the hands move rapidly with corresponding ticking sounds increasing
  • a large clock face appears ont he ground and the hands start with a rapid rate but grind to a stop with a corresponding ticking sounds decreasing
  • a clock face appears in the air above the target(s)
  • a large hour glass appears in the air above the target(s)
  • a large hourglass is used as a summoned item
  • a large grandfather clock is used as a summoned item
  • use hourglasses as elements
  • use clock faces as elements
  • use the roman numerals 1 through 12 as elements

Movement effects

  • A visual mod of the teleport movement power that uses clocklike hand/arm gestures to blink from place to place
  • a visual mod of the teleport movement power that uses a wristwatch device to blink from place to place
  • a visual mod of the teleport movement power that uses a pocketwatch/stopwatch to blink from place to place
  • ride on a hovering clockface platform
  • sit on an hourglass with wings because ... time flies

This package was inspired by Noximilien of the animated series Wakfu and by the Time Mage class in Final Fantasy Tactics.


I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
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The Musical Package

The Musical Package

Props

  • Microphone
  • Electric Guitar
  • Lyre
  • Pan flute
  • fife
  • hand drums hung from waist
  • keyboard (suspended in front of char)
  • horn: like a trumpet or bugle
  • tambourine
  • DJ scratch table (suspended in front of char)
  • Drum Major’s mace

Costume Items

  • Introduce speakers as an element for use in constellation props, sharing the same emanation points as constellation props and multiple hands and spider backpacks, etc. for all types of ranged and PbAoE power activations
  • add sequins as a clothing material
  • add buckskin as a clothing material
  • add tie-dye as a clothing material
  • add beads and needlepoint to some existing costume items for an alternate folksy look
  • add rhinestones to some existing costume items for alternate rock look
  • Iconic Drum Major’s Band Uniform
    • Tall hat with feather
    • double breasted cavalry jacket
    • flare hipped pants
    • high boots
  • leather pants
  • leather vest
  • black t-shirt with ROCK ON! logo or something similar
  • Add some more hairstyles of the kind associated with musicians such as:
    • spiked punk hairstyles
    • 70’s rock band big hair
    • 80’s alternative (a la the iconic Flock of Seagulls)
    • long straight Hippy hairstyles (with headband?)
  • Wide open shirt with big collar
  • windsor glasses (the kind made famous by John Lennon) include a mirrored or sunglass option like:
  • tam (a.k.a. the Rastacap)
  • tall platform shoes like Kiss wore, or these guys:
  • one-ear headset with a small microphone

Out of Combat Animations[u]

  • play air guitar viciously with the grimacing underbite to match. If a guitar prop is equipped, use it. “em/shred”
  • Strut like a drum major, pumping the mace and lifting the knees “em/bandstrut”
  • assorted emotes for particular instruments, should play the appropriate sounds as well; regardless of whether the character is actually in possession of the prop, include the prop anyway
    • em/tambourine - bang and rattle like only a cool cat can
    • em/bongos - bang on a set of bongos
    • em/panflute - include some knee spreading skip hopping like a leprechaun or a pan
    • em/lyre - a meandering slow-paced stroll
    • em/fife - march in place
    • em/horn - play tournament fanfare
    • em/guitar - like a cowboy
    • em/keyboard - play chopstix
    • em/djscratch- with one hand to ear, lean to side and scratch a turntable
  • rock your head holding hand up with the sign of the horns “em/rockout”
  • hold up a lit lighter (do people do this anymore, or it is cell phone lights now?)
  • jump around holding glow stick in your hand “em/mikufan”

[u]Combat Animations

  • I was going to say to use some extreme drum major moves like this:But then I realized how badly it could be abused with aesthetic decoupling, especially with miniskirts or kilts; so no.
  • Use many of the same animations as are used for emotes above for playing instruments
  • Back-arching diva howl, holding the microphone up:

Power Effects

  • Add musical note notations as an element to be used for powers and auras that use them, complete with bars
  • Use giant speakers as summons and placeable effects
  • Use a giant drum with an animated mallet as a summons or placeable effect
  • Use guitar picks as elements in auras and power effects
  • Depict concussive sound waves for conical or ray-type attacks

Did I miss anything? There's so much ground to cover with this package, I'm sure I missed something obvious.

Yep. Totally missed the obvious: I completely did not think of symphony or chamber music. We need to include a Director's long tail tuxedo costume, and a director's baton/wand prop. Then there's the fiddle/violin, saxophone and cymbals; maybe even a french horn, trombone and sousaphone and used just like a keyboard, we could have a xylophone. I can picture it now: Playing a commander archetype with a xylophone (marimba?) made of bones playing the riff from Danse Macabre as he employs his skeletal minions! mwahahaha


I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
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Pets

Pets

Let's start out with some key terminology:


Vanity Pet an entity that follows the character that can be summoned and unsummoned and has no capabilities or bearing on game mechanics. It may have scripted behaviors and on-command behaviors but these are for aesthetic enjoyment only. These behaviors may include perching or resting on the character model's head or shoulders.

Minion This is an entity that follows the character but that can also accept player commands. It is reserved exclusively for the Commander Archetype. It can be summoned and unsummoned, be any size, and contributes to combat and can take damage and be defeated in combat. It has its own scripted actions it can even perform combat actions independent of the character's actions. If sidekicks exist, they will also fit into this category. I do not know enough about the summoned creatures used by Operator Archteypes to determine if they would be considered minions for this discussion. NOTE: the term "pet" has been used extensively in these forums to include Commander Minions. I am deliberately substituting "minion" here for clarity. I am sure many people will prefer to use "pet" and continue to call commanders a "pet class." I hope those people understand for the purposes of this exercise why I have chosen to make the distinction.
Combat Pet A combat pet is a subset of minion. What sets combat pets apart from other minions is that combat pets share design skins with vanity pets and/or shoulder pets and therefore can also share many out-of-combat animations with them as well.

Shoulder Pet, a term used to describe a small entity that follows the character and can be used in the animations and effects of combat powers. It may perch or rest on the character's head, shoulder or wrist.

So for this exercise, I'm only considering vanity and shoulder pets. By association, if Combat Pets will exist (and I hope they will), they are also covered insofar as they overlap with vanity and shoulder pets for the purposes of out of combat behaviors.

Pet designs these are taken from pet ideas offered in the City of Titans forums over the past seven (7) years

  • orbs:(things that hover naturally but would roll on ground)
    • basic orb
    • ball of electricity
    • eye
    • will o'wisp
    • balls
      • baseball
      • american football
      • (soccer) football
      • volleyball
      • billiards ball (eight ball)
  • Flying animals: (things that have a natural flying and hovering animation, a natural land movement animation, and could also rest on character)
    • birds:
      • pidgeon
      • seagull
      • crow/raven
      • falcon
      • eagle
      • parrot
      • toucan
      • vulture
      • owl
    • bumblebee
    • butterfly
    • fairy
    • dark twisted fairy
    • goth fairy
    • winged imp
    • baby dragon
    • faerie dragon
    • robot
    • monkey with wings
    • angel
    • devil
  • Flying Only: (things that would have a flying animation but no land animation)
    • Jellyfish
    • drone
    • genie/djinn
    • swordfish
    • eel
    • Couatl
    • sea monkey alien
  • land animals (things that have a normal land-based movement animation but no dedicated flying animation)
    • dog
    • alaskan malamute puppy
    • cat
    • rat
    • fox
    • many-tailed fox
    • monkey
    • snake
    • ferret
    • koala
    • sloth
    • raccoon
    • bush baby
    • arachnids
      • jumping spider
      • spinning spider
      • hairy tarantula
      • scorpion
    • insects
      • rhino beetle
      • scarab
      • ant
      • caterpiller
    • wingless imp
    • gnome
    • redcap
    • tiny people in people clothes
    • homunculus
    • disembodied hand
    • rikti monkey
    • slime
    • teddy bear
    • plant person
    • plant creature
    • animated chair disney style
    • stickman
    • puppet
    • Biker mouse on a bike
  • Miscellaneous: (things that have neither a flying nor a land movement animation but would achieve the appearance of personality through orientation and displacement)
    • weapons: I was having second thoughts about this category, but I'm including them anyway because why not?
      • sword
      • flaming sword
      • machinegun
      • pistol
      • flaming wheel
      • rolling pin
      • baseball bat
    • disembodied head
    • skull
    • toolbox
    • mirror
  • the ability to substitute the material substance of any of those listed above so as to be made out of the substance, such as:
    • shadow
    • fire
    • ice
    • rock
    • smoke
    • water
    • glass/crystal
    • junk
    • other materials as provided by other package themes
  • skeletal versions of the above, as appropriate

Out of combat animations
have the character designate where the default rest position is from the following options:

  • Hovering
  • on the ground
  • on the shoulder
  • on the head
  • on the wrist (perched like a falconer, so it requires animating the player character as well as the pet)
  • Provide a hovering animation for each pet (pets without a normal hovering animation would just use their default land animation instead, but at a hover)
  • provide a land movement animation for each pet (pets without a normal land movement would use their default hover animation instead, just close to the ground)
  • provide a transition between the character's shoulder and normal movement mode for the pet (as per the pet designs categories above)
  • provide a transition between the character's head and normal movement mode for the pet
  • provide a transition between the character's wrist and normal movement mode for the pet
  • provide various idle animations such as... :
    • shoulder pet picks things out of character's hair
    • pet cleans itself
    • pet goes to sleep if character idle too long
    • (help me out here guys... what kind of idle animations could we ask for? think of specific pets)

Combat animations
have a character designate where the default combat position is (same way as the default rest position, with the exception that wrist would not be a combat position option)

  • provide for a pet animation when pet is used as an emanation point for powers
  • provide for a pet animation when the pet itself is used as the power (such as for a melee or ranged attack)
  • should vanity pets disappear during combat? thoughts?
  • Transformation animation for when a shoulder pet or vanity pet turns into a full-blown Commander combat pet (or any minion!) as part of the transition into combat stance. And another for when leaving combat stance

Power effects:

  • movement effects for when pet itself is used as the power effect, to show movement and speed perhaps
  • any other power effects available for any other props should be available for any pet used as an emanation point
    the following would be applicable for a Commander pet transformation from vanity or shoulder pet to minion or combat pet:
    • enlarge and explode
    • biological blisters
    • turn it blindingly [customized color]
    • dark hole
    • cloud of debris
    • electrical discharge
    • earth eggshell envelopes
    • fiery combustion
    • encased in ice
    • just about any player character transformation effect could be applied here, so long as it accounts for the difference in size somehow

Travel Effects

  • Transform a vanity pet, shoulder pet or even a minion/ combat pet into a personal transportation device such as a mount or a flying carrier. This would only be available if the associated pet was summoned. Otherwise, the personal transportation device would be summoned without any transformation effects to deal with.

What did I miss? Is there anything else people would like to see when it comes to pets?


I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
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Huckleberry wrote:
Huckleberry wrote:

What did I miss? Is there anything else people would like to see when it comes to pets?

Like your other "package" ideas I think you've covered pets pretty well here.

I have no problem with categorizing pets into the broad groups you've mentioned (Vanity Pet, Minion, Combat Pet and Shoulder Pet). But I do have a concern that the Devs of CoT will likely be forced (just due to the circumstances of their development) to limit specific kinds of pets to certain groups.

For example let's say a player is interested in having his "wizard" character be followed around by an impish familiar. For the sake of this example let's assume the player wants this imp to be a Vanity Pet. Seems straightforward enough. But what happens when the Devs only manage to implement an "imp" as a Minion or a Shoulder Pet. The Player in this case would then have to decide if he really wants the imp or another Vanity Pet that may not look anything like he wants.

Obviously in a perfect game a player would be able to select (or even design) the exact kind of pet they want (i.e. cat, dragon, etc.) and then set that pet to be any of the four types you've defined. Unfortunately I suspect what we're going to get is something like an Orc Minion and a Rat Vanity Pet but -not- a Rat Minion or Orc Vanity Pet.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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Thanks. I appreciate the

Thanks. I appreciate the comment.

And I agree that the amount of effort required to give every player the pet they've imagined is an impossible task. I suspect the devs will just stick with a few basic models and use skins to make it seem like there are a lot more options.

But I don't agree that some options will exist for one category and not for others for exactly the same reason. Once they've created a pet skin, don't you think it would be the most efficient use of their time and effort to use that skin and associated animations in as many ways as possible? So in my opinion, I would expect that any minion, shoulder pet or vanity pet design would be re-used as much as possible and therefore applied to the other two categories as much as feasible.


I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
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Huckleberry wrote:
Huckleberry wrote:

Thanks. I appreciate the comment.

And I agree that the amount of effort required to give every player the pet they've imagined is an impossible task. I suspect the devs will just stick with a few basic models and use skins to make it seem like there are a lot more options.

But I don't agree that some options will exist for one category and not for others for exactly the same reason. Once they've created a pet skin, don't you think it would be the most efficient use of their time and effort to use that skin and associated animations in as many ways as possible? So in my opinion, I would expect that any minion, shoulder pet or vanity pet design would be re-used as much as possible and therefore applied to the other two categories as much as feasible.

I'm sure they will attempt to "repurpose" as many assets as possible. Doing that makes sense whether you have a working budget of a few dollars or millions.

I guess it will depend on how well the CoT Devs can isolate the model graphics from the underlying mechanics. So for instance if they can first create a cool polar bear asset with all the possible associated graphics and animation and then allow that pre-made polar bear asset to be assigned to be anything they wanted (i.e. Enemy MOB, Vanity Pet, etc.). The key would be to NOT hardwire specific models to specific roles in the game.

Unfortunately having a full set of "generic models" to be used in multiple ways like this is probably easier said than done. Like you said if they can take a few basic models and reskin them they might be able to create the illusion of more options.

P.S. I'll just use this opportunity to re-suggest a related idea that's been floating around since the old CoH forums: A customizable "sidekick" Vanity Pet. Basically it's a Vanity Pet mechanically but what makes it different is that it has a costume slot just like the ones players get for their characters. The player would be able to create a costume for the pet and effectively gets to "reskin" the pet to look like anything the avatar builder will allow. The CoT Devs have been favorable to the idea but it never hurts to keep reminding them about it. ;)

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:

... a cool polar bear ...

I see what you did there.

Lothic wrote:

P.S. I'll just use this opportunity to re-suggest a related idea that's been floating around since the old CoH forums: A customizable "sidekick" Vanity Pet. Basically it's a Vanity Pet mechanically but what makes it different is that it has a costume slot just like the ones players get for their characters. The player would be able to create a costume for the pet and effectively gets to "reskin" the pet to look like anything the avatar builder will allow. The CoT Devs have been favorable to the idea but it never hurts to keep reminding them about it. ;)

I rediscovered some of the posts about sidekicks and sidekick customization again while I was doing my research for the pets package theme. That would be a very cool idea. And like you said, it doesn't even need to have a role in combat, it could just be a fun vanity thing.

I'd even like to take it a step further, though. You know I can't let a good idea just sit there.
So, rather than just some vanity pet anyone can buy in the cash shop; imagine if there is an entire character mission arc once you reach a certain notoriety in the game world and the reward is your very own sidekick. Of course, you would get to customize the sidekick. Just like CoX had capes as a thing we had to earn, so would CoT have a sidekick we'd have to earn. And imagine if we could even send them off on side missions (like crafting items, or a 1 hour "farming" mission after which they return with some random drops appropriate to their level and difficulty) And imagine if we could even select from among a few different personalities for them as well. This would manifest in certain things the sidekick would say to you as you go about your business. So let's say after a combat your sidekick has a chance to randomly comment. One could say, "golly gee whiz Lothic, you really showed them!" While another personality choice might say, "they had it comin' to 'em, boss;" and so forth.


I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
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what about villains? what do

what about villains? what do they get?

not my video just one I lke ===> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6-SdIN0hsM

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Villains get whatever they

Villains get whatever they can get away with. *rimshot*

I don't recall if pet customization was ever made a stated goal for commanders, but that idea certainly has been floated. A non-combat pet with customization could be a first step in that direction since it wouldn't need to be able to attack or follow commands. That's also why I'd shy away from using "sidekick", since I expect for most people that implies some kind of combat support role.

- - - - -
Hail Beard!

Support trap clowns for CoT!

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notears wrote:
notears wrote:

what about villains? what do they get?

Why would you think this idea only applied to heroes?


I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
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because sidekicks are a more

because sidekicks are a more hero thing? Maybe ours could be called lackeys

not my video just one I lke ===> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6-SdIN0hsM

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Huckleberry}Why would you
Huckleberry wrote:

Why would you think this idea only applied to heroes?

Because villains could use a cool polar bear side-kick too!

Be Well!
Fireheart

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Darth Fez wrote:
Darth Fez wrote:

I don't recall if pet customization was ever made a stated goal for commanders, but that idea certainly has been floated. A non-combat pet with customization could be a first step in that direction since it wouldn't need to be able to attack or follow commands. That's also why I'd shy away from using "sidekick", since I expect for most people that implies some kind of combat support role.

Yeah I understand how the word 'sidekick' can be relatively loaded in the context of a superhero MMO so maybe just calling the thing a customizable vanity pet would be generic enough to keep people from thinking this suggestion is the beginning of some kind of complicated "Batman and Robin" style system. Also the idea of this being a baby step towards Commander pet customization has already been used as an argument to justify its existence in the game. ;)

I'm certainly not against having a complex "sidekick system" as some kind of combat support mechanic. But again all I'm suggesting is a "Vanity Pet with a Costume slot" to keep things nice and simple.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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Beastman

Beastman

This package collects design ideas associated with beast-like people (non-aquatic and non-insect, for reasons)

Body morphs: This are changes to the actual character model.

  • Digitigrade legs: Replace lower body with legs that naturally stand on their toes
    • note that the second from the left is not digitigrade it is plantigrade (ie: normal human)
    • This Image shows Human, Dog, Horse and Flamingo:
      which I will use for reference
    • Version 0 - normal human but standing on toes while at rest (used for wearing high heeled shoes)
    • Version 1 - Start with normal legs, but just make the metatarsals extra long and change the posture accordingly.
    • version 2(dog proportions) - Shorten the lower leg between the knee and ankle and change the basic shape of it to match life examples.
      • Furry with claws (for use with cats, dogs and other mammals, depending on the skins applied)
      • Scaly with claws (for use with reptiles and monsters)
      • Skin with only 3 toes (for aliens)
      • Mechanical sleek
      • Mechanical steampunk
      • Mechanical dieselpunk
      • skeletal (because why not?)
    • version 3(horse proportions)
      • Hoofed like a horse
      • Cloven Hoofed like a goat
      • Toed like a camel
      • Clawed like a raptor, with feathers (for a bird)
      • Clawed like a raptor, with scales (for saurians)
      • bowlegged (for use with simians...and cowpokes)
      • skin with a few toes (for aliens)
      • skeletal
  • Arms: We will keep arms to the default human character model bones. Note that I expect this will be overridden by costume items rather than cropping through
    • furred
    • hairy
    • feathered
    • feathered with large flight feathers
    • scaled like a reptile
    • scaled like a dragon
  • Hands: Note that I expect this will be overridden by costume items rather than cropping through
    • furred with claws
    • hairy apelike (elongated metacarpals)
    • birdlike with talons
    • reptilelike with claws
    • skin with three fingers
  • Torso: Note that I expect this will be overridden by costume items rather than cropping through
    • furred
    • hairy apelike
    • feathered coarse
    • feathered fine
    • reptile scales
    • dragon scales
  • Back
    • Leathery wings
    • feathered wings
    • spines
    • armored shell
    • skeletal spikes
  • Head: Note that I expect this will be overridden by costume items rather than clipping through, but I still expect the 3D morph of the head to be reflected in the size and shape of the costume items just like it would be on a human head that has had sliders applied to it
    • Canine (wolf)
    • Canine (pug or bulldog)
    • Canine (chihuahua)
    • canine (hound)
    • Feline house cat
    • Feline giant cat
    • Gorilla
    • Chimpanzee
    • Monkey
    • Raccoon
    • Bear
    • Otter
    • Rat
    • Lemur
    • Bovine
    • equine
    • cervid
    • rabbit
    • Bat
    • Raptor bird
    • Songbird/pidgeon
    • crested bird (e.g. cardinal or jay)
    • Parrot
    • Toucan
    • Woodpecker
    • vulture
    • duck
    • Crocodile/alligator
    • Lizard/snake
    • Turtle
    • Raptor (toothed saurian)
    • Triceratops (because!)
    • Dragon
    • hollywood warewolf


materials: I use "Material" to refer to a UNREAL engine capability to make a 2D surface look and behave as if it has depth and texture, reflectivity and other proprties associated with actual materials and surfaces. Material picker is an existing feature in the COT Avatar Builder for the character's body.

  • Note that all of the listed options SHOULD come with different areas (depending on body part) for application of different colors and skins (patterns). The current COT Avatar Builder does not have this capability for the character's skin. Blending from one color to another is also not a capability currently implemented in the Avatar Builder Countershading is an especially important color scheme to implement for beasts.
  • Fur Material
  • Ape hair material
  • Alligator material
  • Snakeskin Material
  • Dragonscale material
  • Fine feathered material
  • course feathered material
  • iridescent material (like grackle and hummingbird feathers)

skins: I use "skin" to refer to a 2-dimensional image or pattern placed upon the 3D morph of the model. Its visible properties will depend upon the material assigned to the same location. This is currently NOT implemented in the Avatar Builder for the character's skin. Material selection currently sets both material and pattern for the character model. If this is to continue, then these skins would have to be added as different versions of the materials offered above.

  • The ability to adjust the following patterns for scale and orientation would be highly desirable (such as with tattoos)
  • Tiger Stripes
  • Leopard spots
  • Cheetah spots
  • Hyena Spots
  • dalmatian spots
  • Diamondback
  • banded
  • longitudinal stripes
  • Basic bi-color countershade

Tails I have no idea how tails will be implemented, whether they are considered costume items, part of the lower body morphs, or what. So, I'm just going to list them here separately:(note that I haven't included any patterns, just shapes)

  • Furry Fox tail
  • slender dog tail
  • puft lion's tale
  • fluffy cat's tail
  • slender cat tail
  • hairless rat tail
  • erect deer's tale
  • rabbit tail
  • bird feathers
  • thick alligator tale
  • thin snake tail
  • stubby lizard tale
  • squirrel tail

Costume Items Make the following items available to all characters.

  • bull Horns
  • Antelope Horns
  • Deer antlers
  • goat horns
  • ram horns
  • nose ring
  • earrings
  • "don't lick yourself" collar of shame
  • take a look at existing costume items ability to work with leg morphs listed above. If they clip badly, make them not an option for those morphs or adjust them accordingly. "Badly" shall remain subjective and apply to the more moderate slider settings, beyond which player's take their fates into their own hands.

Out of Combat Animations

  • All idle animations, and walking and running movements may need to be adjusted to account for body posture changes that result from digitigrade movement, such as pumping the head, swinging the arms, etc.
  • Adjust walking animation for version 0 of the digitigrade legs (wearing high heels): shorter strides, more forward center of gravity
  • sniff at the air
  • follow the red laser dot
  • use "/perch" as an option instead of "/sit"
  • lick the backs of your hands and use them to groom your hair
  • scratch behind your ear with your foot
  • stomp and scratch like an enraged bull
  • shake the water off
  • add tail animations for other existing emotes like wagging when happy, etc.

Combat animations

  • head butt
  • claw scratch
  • donkey kick
  • bite
  • spit
  • assume a feral stance

Power Effects

  • add feathers as an element for use in power effects and auras
  • a short ejection of liquid (meant for use with spit animation but can be used for any ranged attack animation)
  • provide animalistic sounds available for power effects such as:
    • barks
    • growls
    • howls
    • roars
    • hiss
    • caws
    • braying
    • mewling (for when debuffed or injured?)

This was a fun one. I had to limit myself to the most obvious selectins, and even then I still went overboard. (and I'm sure I forgot some of the most obvious things anyway)

What would you include?

[Edited to account for simians]


I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
Cobalt Azurean
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Simian parts, like hands for

Simian parts, like hands for feet and the like, preset sliders, etc.

That's a pretty comprehensive list, well done.

Lothic
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Huckleberry wrote:
Huckleberry wrote:

Beastman

Another good list. Many of the things you've listed here have been in the costume suggestion summary threads for years but it's probably always good to keep suggesting these things multiple times in order to get the Devs to pay attention.

Huckleberry wrote:

Tails I have no idea how tails will be implemented, whether they are considered costume items, part of the lower body morphs, or what.

You brought up this idea of "costume item versus body morph" several times in your post. I'd have to think it's always going to be easier to implement things like this as costume items rather than changing the basic body models. Obviously I'd like to see everything you've suggested in the game regardless of how it's implemented. I'm just saying it'll likely be easier for the Devs to do it via clever costume items. This is how wings, horns and tails were done in CoH so I'll just make the general assumption that's the way it'll be handled in CoT as well.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

Huckleberry
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Lothic wrote:
Cobalt Azurean wrote:

Simian parts, like hands for feet and the like, preset sliders, etc.

That's a pretty comprehensive list, well done.


Thanks. Also your mention of preset sliders is a DEFINITE quality of life feature for these things

Lothic wrote:

Another good list. Many of the things you've listed here have been in the costume suggestion summary threads for years but it's probably always good to keep suggesting these things multiple times in order to get the Devs to pay attention.

Thanks. It's not my intention to take the place of or even repeat what has been covered elsewhere. I'm really just trying to show how if we we only consider something as just a prop or as a costume item or as an animation, etc., we'd be missing out on all the other parts of the game that could implement it or take advantage of it.

Lothic wrote:

You brought up this idea of "costume item versus body morph" several times in your post. I'd have to think it's always going to be easier to implement things like this as costume items rather than changing the basic body models. Obviously I'd like to see everything you've suggested in the game regardless of how it's implemented. I'm just saying it'll likely be easier for the Devs to do it via clever costume items. This is how wings, horns and tails were done in CoH so I'll just make the general assumption that's the way it'll be handled in CoT as well.

Yeah, you're probably right, but I'd hate for there to be one slot for a back costume item, and we have to make a choice between wings or a tail instead of having both. That's just an example I'm throwing out there, since I'm completely ignorant of how many choices we'll actually have to play with when everything's implemented. Although more to your point, nothing's stopping them from adding dedicated tail costume slot some time in the future anyway.


I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.

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