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The non-human heroes of CoT

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Phararri
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The non-human heroes of CoT

Been gone for awhile, so I came to this post

https://cityoftitans.com/comment/129525#comment-129525

They mentioned animalistic features; are there any creature features you wish to see? I always thought it would be cool to create....

Triceratops

A brutish elephant

Tentacle being (I actually seen this in the pax video)

Xenomorph like creature

Even in CO, I am left thinking, "Man, it would be cool if we had this" I don't expect CoT to have everything, but I think it would be neat if they implement what we don't have in other super hero mmo.

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This makes me think of the

This makes me think of the illithids in D&D, tentacle face, squid-like, bipedal psionicists.

All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.

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I would love for my Rogue

I would love for my Rogue Nightwolf to have his proper bear/wolf/beast face! Although, a 'closed mouth' version that wasn't snarling all the time, would be even Better!

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Some plant derivitive faces

Some plant derivitive faces would be nice.
They could pass for human like the Sylvari from Guild Wars 2, which in my opinion are the apex of plant-like human design.

Or they could be more extreme like the [url=http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Mandragora_(creature)]mandragora family from the Final Fantasy series[/url],

or even more monstrous like this venus fly-trap inspired mask:


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Something like the godlike

Something like the godlike from pillars of eternity would be cool.

"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."

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Project_Hero wrote:
Project_Hero wrote:

Something like the godlike from pillars of eternity would be cool.

I just finish it this w-e ^^


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A venus fly-trap for a head

A actual venus fly-trap for a head would be cool.
Personally, I never saw the appeal of werewolves. Some love the genre, however.

I still like human faces way too much.
If we had fur skins to go with the heads, I would fear a furry invasion. I do not want COT to look like Zootopia.

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Cyclops wrote:
Cyclops wrote:

A actual venus fly-trap for a head would be cool.
Personally, I never saw the appeal of werewolves. Some love the genre, however.

I still like human faces way too much.
If we had fur skins to go with the heads, I would fear a furry invasion. I do not want COT to look like Zootopia.

Animal and/or animalistic characters have been in comics for ages. Having the options is never a bad thing. Remember you don't need to use those options or interact with those who use them.

"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."

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*cartwheels through the air

*cartwheels through the air and lands perfectly*

It would be soooooo nomtastic if we could have housecat-sized character models, with accurate feline features, tail, and proper feline mesh skeleton. Being able to put cowls, costumes, and capes on such a kitty model would be much appreciated!

Thanks!

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Project_Hero wrote:
Project_Hero wrote:
Cyclops wrote:

A actual venus fly-trap for a head would be cool.
Personally, I never saw the appeal of werewolves. Some love the genre, however.

I still like human faces way too much.
If we had fur skins to go with the heads, I would fear a furry invasion. I do not want COT to look like Zootopia.

Animal and/or animalistic characters have been in comics for ages. Having the options is never a bad thing. Remember you don't need to use those options or interact with those who use them.

Agreed. animal heads have always been there. I just fear furries will invade if we become "too" option friendly.

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Cyclops wrote:
Cyclops wrote:
Project_Hero wrote:
Cyclops wrote:

A actual venus fly-trap for a head would be cool.
Personally, I never saw the appeal of werewolves. Some love the genre, however.

I still like human faces way too much.
If we had fur skins to go with the heads, I would fear a furry invasion. I do not want COT to look like Zootopia.

Animal and/or animalistic characters have been in comics for ages. Having the options is never a bad thing. Remember you don't need to use those options or interact with those who use them.

Agreed. animal heads have always been there. I just fear furries will invade if we become "too" option friendly.

It'd mean more revenue for the devs. And again you don't need to use the options or interact with those that do.

It'd be like limiting any options that could be used for vampires so that world of darkness players won't play City of Titans.

I say the more the merrier.

"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."

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I'm not talking about players

I'm not talking about players. I'm talking about the Furry community. They don't fight crime, they socialize, and cyber.

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They'd still pay for the game

They'd still pay for the game and/or a subscription and as long as they're not cybering anywhere public it's not really much of a problem.

Most of my time on various hero games was spent socializing rather than playing.

How they choose to use the product they're paying for (provided they aren't disturbing anyone elses fun or violating the terms of service) is really up to them.

"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."

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jtpaull wrote:
jtpaull wrote:

This makes me think of the illithids in D&D, tentacle face, squid-like, bipedal psionicists.

During the pax west, in the video presented by MWM, we can see something like that :)
Look at the video at 5'50 :)
http://titanscity.com/que-apprend-on-dans-la-video-de-la-pax-city-of-titans


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Cyclops wrote:
Cyclops wrote:

A actual venus fly-trap for a head would be cool.
Personally, I never saw the appeal of werewolves. Some love the genre, however.

I still like human faces way too much.
If we had fur skins to go with the heads, I would fear a furry invasion. I do not want COT to look like Zootopia.

Limiting things because of fear people will use them, that's a slippery slope there. If animal like heroes is what people want to play, why can't they? You're allowed to play and create the character you want(hopefully), and others should be able to do the same

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Cyclops wrote:
Cyclops wrote:

I just fear furries will invade if we become "too" option friendly.

I am furry, but *not* "Furry".

I am sure that my dear, darling, and devoted Devs will have provisions in the EULA meant to crack down on certain inappropriate usage so that City of Tabbies does not become a giant ERP (or worse) milieu, like Pocket D.

*cartwheels through the air from one side of this thread to the other and onward to the next thread!*

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If it's an MMO, it will have

If it's an MMO, it will have a giant ERP, the hope is, they don't just do it outright in public and the real hope is, they really make it make sense. :p In the middle of the crowd of Pocket D, made no sense. Just as those who thought Pocket D was some sort of family friendly dining establishment, that didn't make sense either :p

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All options should be

All options should be available, if we're really looking to emulate comic books. Tigra is a West-Coast Avenger. Cheetah is a dangerous physical opponent to Wonder Woman. Beast is probably the most brilliant, level-headed X-man. Rocket, despite being unstable, is the brains of the Guardians. Etc. Etc.

Honestly, from what I saw in CO, while people talked about furries a lot, people playing as demons or vampires were 10x more likely to be open erp'ers than furries. So unless you also remove all demonic, angelic, vampiric, elvish, etc, traits, including even basic pointed ears, you're not accomplishing anything.

And then all you're left with humans and robots. That's not a comic book setting. That's a low-rent sci-fi setting.

I could see human-animal hybrids being an issue if it was a Lord of the Rings setting, or Blade Runner, then they'd be out of place. However, in the CoT setting, it makes perfect sense for them to be in Titan City. If the City of Titans is a meta hub, it stands to reason that many freaks would find their way there. Imagine you're a creature like that. Would you prefer to live in a city full of metas where you can "blend in" or in a regular city where you stick out like a soar thumb and likely get lynched? Obviously, the first option is the reasonable one. So from a story standpoint, their presence is entirely rational.

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BiotopeZ wrote:
BiotopeZ wrote:

All options should be available, if we're really looking to emulate comic books. Tigra is a West-Coast Avenger. Cheetah is a dangerous physical opponent to Wonder Woman. Beast is probably the most brilliant, level-headed X-man. Rocket, despite being unstable, is the brains of the Guardians. Etc. Etc.

Honestly, from what I saw in CO, while people talked about furries a lot, people playing as demons or vampires were 10x more likely to be open erp'ers than furries. So unless you also remove all demonic, angelic, vampiric, elvish, etc, traits, including even basic pointed ears, you're not accomplishing anything.

And then all you're left with humans and robots. That's not a comic book setting. That's a low-rent sci-fi setting.

I could see human-animal hybrids being an issue if it was a Lord of the Rings setting, or Blade Runner, then they'd be out of place. However, in the CoT setting, it makes perfect sense for them to be in Titan City. If the City of Titans is a meta hub, it stands to reason that many freaks would find their way there. Imagine you're a creature like that. Would you prefer to live in a city full of metas where you can "blend in" or in a regular city where you stick out like a soar thumb and likely get lynched? Obviously, the first option is the reasonable one. So from a story standpoint, their presence is entirely rational.

Agreed. And that brings up an interesting lore question: is City of Titans, in MWM lore, the only meta city? or is meta common throughout the world? I can see it making sense either way...just a thought

All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.

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jtpaull wrote:
jtpaull wrote:

Agreed. And that brings up an interesting lore question: is City of Titans, in MWM lore, the only meta city? or is meta common throughout the world? I can see it making sense either way...just a thought

My understanding is that there's only a few worldwide, and while there's a lot of cities with a high population of metahumans and other supers, there's only a few meta cities.

Can't seem to find where I got that idea, though, so I could be wrong.

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My understanding is that

My understanding is that "supers" are not something geographically confined (ala City of Heroes) ... it's just that Titan City is going to be the FIRST place that Missing Worlds Media details and defines. Only time, tools and tech manuals will tell if there will be other cities released as additional locations.

Note that any kind of "moonbase" would qualify as being a city in a different location ...


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Oh man, I would love to have

Oh man, I would love to have multiple cities. Then super teams can have area factions. The Justice League of America and Justice league international, Teen Titans and the Titans East!

That would be super!

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I can see another city being

I can see another city being an expansion, like when CoV launched and we got the Rogue Isles or Praetoria with Going Rogue.

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I forgot about expansions

I forgot about expansions because "Other" games do a bunch of cheap DLC. An actual expanse of the world would be sweet.

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Project_Hero wrote:
Project_Hero wrote:

It'd be like limiting any options that could be used for vampires so that world of darkness players won't play City of Titans.

Don't. Even. Think. About. It.

Brand X wrote:

If it's an MMO, it will have a giant ERP, the hope is, they don't just do it outright in public...

Goldshire *shudder*

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I wonder how they will handle

I wonder how they will handle things such as creature stances, as-well as creature layering. Will players be able to run on all fours like CO had? Will creature stances be crappy as CO's were? Will creatures be able to wear helmets, armor, etc as CO allowed?

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Phararri wrote:
Phararri wrote:

I wonder how they will handle things such as creature stances, as-well as creature layering. Will players be able to run on all fours like CO had? Will creature stances be crappy as CO's were? Will creatures be able to wear helmets, armor, etc as CO allowed?

Not sure if CoT is even going to launch with beast legs. CO had them, and many used them for robots, mythical things, aliens, etc, as well.

Unfortunately, CO had far fewer clothing options for beast legs than normal legs. Why can't someone with beast legs wear jeans? Pants aren't that complicated. They're two tubes of material connected at the top. If Angus MacAskill could get clothes that fit in the 1800's, I'm pretty sure modern cloth tube technology could accommodate someone with knee and ankle joints higher up.

I'd like to see someone with beast legs wearing full-body spec ops gear including a modified boot/brace that fits right over a digitigrade foot. In CO, you could have one wearing spec ops gear from the waist up, and then either a loin cloth or spandex from the waist down. It was ridiculous. I understand that you want to spend more time making options for the leg type more people are going to use, but come on, let the differently legged people wear pants too.

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Would the leg type even

Would the leg type even matter that much? For the most part "clothing" is just a texture applied onto a model right? I can understand the problems with non-skin-tight clothing but anything skin tight shouldn't pose any trouble. Other than maybe looking a little odd when it comes to the patterns and such on said clothing.

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Remember the news on the

Remember the news on the design of the rooks ? Clothes are over the body if i remember well. That means clothes for beast must be created for beast, thats not just a material put on the skin. Moreover, if there is fur, wearing a pant on beast legs should put in a mandatory way a skin without fur to not have fur throught the pants :)


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I hope the bestial heroes and

I hope the bestial heroes and villains wear at least pants. Cause unless you're reptilian, you need pants!

No one needs to see that!

Pants for the beast legged people!

"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."

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That's what the kilt/shorts

That's what the kilt/shorts are for.

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I don't think CoT should make

I don't think CoT should make any kind of build that isn't bipedal. Like something on all fours, someone mentioned above; I just don't think it fits. After all, this isn't about aliens or crazy monsters; it's a meta-city on Earth. Variations are obviously wanted and anything bipedal should conceivably fit the bill. But I don't see how anything non-bipedal could be justified as a character.

All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.

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Validus, Gorilla Grodd, Beast

Validus, Gorilla Grodd, Beast, etc. Are all characters that move not just using their back legs. They're not truely quadrupedal but they move in a way similar, so having animations and stances to allow for a more bestial look or feel would be welcomed.

And it works for any character with animalistic traits.

But if they can get quadrupedal movement and models down then we could have characters that could turn into animals like Beast Boy, Chameleon Boy (or whatever the Legion of super heroes character is called), etc. And that would be cool.

Also as for quadrupedal Heroes/Villains there's the Legion of super pets.

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€dit: Ninja'd while searching for a pic... story of my life. =P
Also, what is wall-crawling other than moving quadruped on a vertical surface?

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Project_Hero wrote:
Project_Hero wrote:

I hope the bestial heroes and villains wear at least pants. Cause unless you're reptilian, you need pants!

No one needs to see that!

Pants for the beast legged people!

Twitter: @SisterSilicon

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Speaking of quadrupedal, one

Speaking of quadrupedal, one thing cool about moba games is how they disregard the standards. There are actually quadrupedal playable characters in MOBA. I don't think this era of super hero mmo will include quadrupedal heroes. I do think this is something that will come from a AAA company. I just feel like the time is now. Character creators having been using bipedal models since character creation became a thing. I think an MMO already took this route with horse folk.

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Is horse folk the PC term for

Is horse folk the PC term for centaurs? =P

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So... back to the list of

So... back to the list of things we'd like to see. I'd like to see....

1) Direct, obvious animal traits. Some are already in CoT lore. Cat and reptile parts are the most common in comics, of course, but rats (eg Splinter) and birds (eg Beak) sometimes show up also. Quite a few snake-themed villains out there, too. But leaving regular chordates behind...

2) Giant eye-ball head, like Alpha Centauri. Either that or single large eye plus toothy mouth, like a beholder.

3) Lovecraftian body horror nightmares of all kinds. Asymmetry is key here.

4) Insect wings, like dragonfly or wasp wings.

5) Scorpion parts, because of the villain group Scorpion. It's only a matter of time. Sooner or later, someone in these themed super-villain groups always takes their symbolism too literally.

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Phararri wrote:
Phararri wrote:

Speaking of quadrupedal, one thing cool about moba games is how they disregard the standards. There are actually quadrupedal playable characters in MOBA. I don't think this era of super hero mmo will include quadrupedal heroes. I do think this is something that will come from a AAA company. I just feel like the time is now. Character creators having been using bipedal models since character creation became a thing. I think an MMO already took this route with horse folk.

I think the main reason for MOBA's having a "easier" time for quadrupedal player characters is mainly because there is effectively no customization outside of whole skins. This minimizes the amount of work since giving one character a new animation or skin does not make it necessary to adapt it to any other character.

Pretty sure that MWM has said that introducing a quadrupedal body model would effectively double the work for costume pieces and animations with a (much?) lower ROI since not many people go for non humanoid bodies. So as most often it comes down to financial viability rather than technical one.

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BiotopeZ wrote:
BiotopeZ wrote:

So... back to the list of things we'd like to see. I'd like to see....

1) Direct, obvious animal traits. Some are already in CoT lore. Cat and reptile parts are the most common in comics, of course, but rats (eg Splinter) and birds (eg Beak) sometimes show up also. Quite a few snake-themed villains out there, too. But leaving regular chordates behind...

2) Giant eye-ball head, like Alpha Centauri. Either that or single large eye plus toothy mouth, like a beholder.

Seeing the beholder with how big of a D&D nerd I am makes me wish they'd make a new D&D mmo with updated graphics and play style. But to your point though, I think it is a financially better decision, at least in the beginning, to focus on what the 95% of players will play, normal bipedal humanoids, and then with expansions, if the game is doing well enough to merit them, add in those more animal like features for players to use.

All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.

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jtpaull wrote:
jtpaull wrote:
BiotopeZ wrote:

So... back to the list of things we'd like to see. I'd like to see....

1) Direct, obvious animal traits. Some are already in CoT lore. Cat and reptile parts are the most common in comics, of course, but rats (eg Splinter) and birds (eg Beak) sometimes show up also. Quite a few snake-themed villains out there, too. But leaving regular chordates behind...

2) Giant eye-ball head, like Alpha Centauri. Either that or single large eye plus toothy mouth, like a beholder.

Seeing the beholder with how big of a D&D nerd I am makes me wish they'd make a new D&D mmo with updated graphics and play style. But to your point though, I think it is a financially better decision, at least in the beginning, to focus on what the 95% of players will play, normal bipedal humanoids, and then with expansions, if the game is doing well enough to merit them, add in those more animal like features for players to use.

A new one? Newer than Neverwinter?

"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."

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Project_Hero wrote:
Project_Hero wrote:
jtpaull wrote:
BiotopeZ wrote:

So... back to the list of things we'd like to see. I'd like to see....

1) Direct, obvious animal traits. Some are already in CoT lore. Cat and reptile parts are the most common in comics, of course, but rats (eg Splinter) and birds (eg Beak) sometimes show up also. Quite a few snake-themed villains out there, too. But leaving regular chordates behind...

2) Giant eye-ball head, like Alpha Centauri. Either that or single large eye plus toothy mouth, like a beholder.

Seeing the beholder with how big of a D&D nerd I am makes me wish they'd make a new D&D mmo with updated graphics and play style. But to your point though, I think it is a financially better decision, at least in the beginning, to focus on what the 95% of players will play, normal bipedal humanoids, and then with expansions, if the game is doing well enough to merit them, add in those more animal like features for players to use.

A new one? Newer than Neverwinter?

Yea, I'm not a big fan of Neverwinter. I don't like the limited tray options for moves and the gameplay seems dumbed down. I really like the gameplay in DDO, D&D Online, but it is dated and I really want that open-world feeling. I know this won't ever happen...but an open-world D&D on the Sword Coast with game similar to what I imagein CoT will be...would be a dream come true. Everything from Waterdeep to Ten-Towns and Mithral Hall. So it would feel sort of like Skyrim but but unreal 4 graphics and D&D setting and class-system. I think that's the only game that could be made that could rival my hopes for CoT. But, that chances of that happening are slim to none since WotC if focused so much on Neverwinter.

All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.

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Most of the trouble I have

Most of the trouble I have with D&D video games is that they're all so limited compared to the table-top experience.

I did also enjoy DDO (even if I didn't end up getting super far in it) mostly for the narrator, that helped capture a D&D feel.

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Huckleberry wrote:
Huckleberry wrote:

or even more monstrous like this venus fly-trap inspired mask:


*compares leafs*
Umm... wrong plant, buddy. xD

But venus fly-trap inspired heads or hands would be nice... if they look less than the original and more like piranha plants/Audrey 2.
The real plants, while cool, still look a bit lackluster in comparison.

Maybe a mushroom cap hat/hairstyle...

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Project_Hero wrote:
Project_Hero wrote:

Most of the trouble I have with D&D video games is that they're all so limited compared to the table-top experience.

I did also enjoy DDO (even if I didn't end up getting super far in it) mostly for the narrator, that helped capture a D&D feel.

This is pretty much how I felt about my Trickster Rogue in NWO.

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"There is a reference to a

"There is a reference to a race of dinosaurs, including one who drives a cab"

Didn't see that. Hopefully it is different than CO. Raptor head 1, Raptor head 2, Raptor head 3 lol. More like Bronto head, triceratops, rex, stego, mosasaurus, etc.

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Phararri wrote:
Phararri wrote:

"There is a reference to a race of dinosaurs, including one who drives a cab"

Didn't see that. Hopefully it is different than CO. Raptor head 1, Raptor head 2, Raptor head 3 lol. More like Bronto head, triceratops, rex, stego, mosasaurus, etc.

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Mask-of-Many wrote:
Mask-of-Many wrote:

"Tricera-Taxi, where ya goin'?"

Great, a car that can honk 3 horns.

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Atama wrote:
Atama wrote:
Mask-of-Many wrote:

"Tricera-Taxi, where ya goin'?"

Great, a car that can honk 3 horns.

lol, ya'll are funny

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I don't know if any of you

I don't know if any of you have played DCUO , but they have a hero class that can turn into dogs, so I can see where animal transformation classes can be doable.

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WoW druids can turn into a

WoW druids can turn into a variety of creatures, some of which can also be mounted by other players.

It's not really a case of can it be done but more so the work required to make it be doable and of course the how to implement such a thing.

Would animal transformations just be aesthetic? Would it have mechanics tied to it? Etc.

Thinking about it having a shape shifting tertiary power pool might work. Then you'd just have a number of forms like, Speed form, power form, tough form, etc then you'd pick what your character turns into (alien/animal/monster/etc) so in essence it'd just be a toggle but with an added part of making your character model something else. Then if you wanted to go full Beast Boy you'd just give yourself some close range combat stuff and make the aesthetics look as much like claws and teeth as you could and there you go. But at the same time you could be a laser shooting lion or something.

Just an idea I had while typing this.

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Best way to represent

Best way to represent shapeshifting in game would be make it a jack-of-all-trades master-of-none concept.

You can turn into different things that tank, dps, heal, a control, etc, but not be able to do any of those things nearly as good as a dedicated build. So, while you can't outshine the specialist, you can be whatever's lacking or needed in a pinch. You're the omni-sub.

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BiotopeZ wrote:
BiotopeZ wrote:

Best way to represent shapeshifting in game would be make it a jack-of-all-trades master-of-none concept.

You can turn into different things that tank, dps, heal, a control, etc, but not be able to do any of those things nearly as good as a dedicated build. So, while you can't outshine the specialist, you can be whatever's lacking or needed in a pinch. You're the omni-sub.

So... The druid class from WoW.

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Eh, the wow druid wasn't

Eh, the wow druid wasn't really a jack of all trades as much as it was able to pick one trade to focus on, which a lot of wow classes could do. This was because of the itemization and skill trees of the game that focused on character specializing into roles.

A true jack of all trades shapeshifter that could fill any role equally on the fly at any time would be much easier to do in a CoX styled game where the class structure and stat mechanics are much less rigid. In fact, didn't CoX have classes that were exactly that, those shapeshifting aliens?

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A WoW druid can function in

A WoW druid can function in all those roles in a pinch. They specialize in one, but they can still operate in the others.

Probably this doesn't work at high levels, but I've seen a druid turn tank for a team when the tank dropped or was useless.

Their shapeshift forms (which I believe they got all of regardless of spec) at least gave them some tools to perform those roles. They wouldn't be optimal in the specs they didn't choose, but they could -do- them. They were way more versatile than say, a mage or a rogue who could only do DPS regardless of spec.

Though I'm sure some clever players have tanked on either of those classes.

Edit: The Kheldian classes could take on multiple roles, but like the WoW druid they usually were only optimized for one role, thanks to augmentation slots, power selection, power pools, etc. So according to you they also wouldn't be a -true- jack of all trades.

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TheInternetJanitor wrote:
TheInternetJanitor wrote:

A true jack of all trades shapeshifter that could fill any role equally on the fly at any time would be much easier to do in a CoX styled game where the class structure and stat mechanics are much less rigid. In fact, didn't CoX have classes that were exactly that, those shapeshifting aliens?

CoH had the Kheldians which had three main forms: A) basic Human shaped jack-of-all-trades, B) a Nova ("squid") form that was mainly "ranged Blaster" oriented and C) a Dwarf ("lobster") form that was more Tank oriented.

Like everything else some people loved them and some people hated them. Turns out the only Kheldian I played for any length of time was a "human-form only" Peacebringer where I voluntarily gave up being able to shift to the other forms because I ultimately found them less fun than they were actually worth.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:
TheInternetJanitor wrote:

A true jack of all trades shapeshifter that could fill any role equally on the fly at any time would be much easier to do in a CoX styled game where the class structure and stat mechanics are much less rigid. In fact, didn't CoX have classes that were exactly that, those shapeshifting aliens?

CoH had the Kheldians which had three main forms: A) basic Human shaped jack-of-all-trades, B) a Nova ("squid") form that was mainly "ranged Blaster" oriented and C) a Dwarf ("lobster") form that was more Tank oriented.

Like everything else some people loved them and some people hated them. Turns out the only Kheldian I played for any length of time was a "human-form only" Peacebringer where I voluntarily gave up being able to shift to the other forms because I ultimately found them less fun than they were actually worth.

I also had a human form peacebringer. She, uh, didn't do very well. But I had fun with her.

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Project_Hero wrote:
Project_Hero wrote:
Lothic wrote:
TheInternetJanitor wrote:

A true jack of all trades shapeshifter that could fill any role equally on the fly at any time would be much easier to do in a CoX styled game where the class structure and stat mechanics are much less rigid. In fact, didn't CoX have classes that were exactly that, those shapeshifting aliens?

CoH had the Kheldians which had three main forms: A) basic Human shaped jack-of-all-trades, B) a Nova ("squid") form that was mainly "ranged Blaster" oriented and C) a Dwarf ("lobster") form that was more Tank oriented.

Like everything else some people loved them and some people hated them. Turns out the only Kheldian I played for any length of time was a "human-form only" Peacebringer where I voluntarily gave up being able to shift to the other forms because I ultimately found them less fun than they were actually worth.

I also had a human form peacebringer. She, uh, didn't do very well. But I had fun with her.

Pretty much the same here. I'd never claim that a "human-form only Peacebringer" was the easiest character concept in the game to play but in a solid team with all the benefits of Cosmic Balance my particular character could actually kick some pretty serious ass and was relatively invincible.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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Did cosmic balance come later

Did cosmic balance come later? I remember the buff, but I don't remember my human form peacebringer having it when I played them...

Maybe the teams I ran with were just too small for it to end up mattering.

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Project_Hero wrote:
Project_Hero wrote:

Did cosmic balance come later? I remember the buff, but I don't remember my human form peacebringer having it when I played them...

Maybe the teams I ran with were just too small for it to end up mattering.

The Cosmic Balance inherent power was there from the beginning of Kheldians. They might have tweaked its effectiveness over time (and it was definitely expanded to affect you while in Dwarf/Nova forms later on). But yeah if you ever got your PB into a solid 8-person team with a good mix of other archetypes the cumulative effect of the Cosmic Balance was very noticeable and fun. PBs were definitely intended to be a "team oriented" archetype.

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I liked that about them.

I liked that about them.

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CO was arguably the most

CO was arguably the most diverse superhero game to date. In actuality, you could create transitions or transformations yourself through costume emotes, role changes, travel powers and free-form power-sets via builds. Free-form allows you to choose any powers within the game. You can also change your role on the fly. So a ranged gunner can seamlessly transition into a bestial power build, while associating a costume & costume change emote with it.

For instance, build one may be a solider with a rifle. Build 2 may be a bestial creature whom does not use guns at all. Build one may be a dps; build 2 may be a tank. Emotes allows role-players to transition from the human to the beast for aesthetics.

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Phararri wrote:
Phararri wrote:

CO was arguably the most diverse superhero game to date. In actuality, you could create transitions or transformations yourself through costume emotes, role changes, travel powers and free-form power-sets via builds. Free-form allows you to choose any powers within the game. You can also change your role on the fly. So a ranged gunner can seamlessly transition into a bestial power build, while associating a costume & costume change emote with it.

For instance, build one may be a solider with a rifle. Build 2 may be a bestial creature whom does not use guns at all. Build one may be a dps; build 2 may be a tank. Emotes allows role-players to transition from the human to the beast for aesthetics.

By the end every character in CoH had access to:

  • 10 character costume slots
  • Roughly 50 costume change emotes
  • 3 different character builds

About the only thing the CO might have beat CoH on was the free-form thing but I would consider it arguable how important that was to keeping players interested in the game given that I have a lifetime subscription to CO and I haven't bothered to even play the game in 6 or 7 years now.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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The free form skill selection

The free form skill selection never really excited me that much in CO. It just felt like a newbie trap since you could cherry pick the best abilities, so having abilities that performed a similar role but weren't as efficient at it was a pure drawback. In an environment where skills come in sets you can have several similar powersets with different parts of them being weaker or stronger to give them different feels. You can't do that very well in a free form system since the players will just pick those "good" skills. So you end up with just a very small number of builds with lots of powers either being nearly identical or never being picked. Every power has to be balanced in a vacuum.

This was compounded by CO choosing to have respecs as a paid store item for some baffling reason. CoH had that for some reason as well but it was usually harder to gimp yourself and much easier to get free respecs including being able to craft them relatively cheaply. Eventually.

I know the games were developed a long time ago but taking basic interface options and locking them behind a paywall isn't a great way to excite players. Especially something that unduly punishes new players that are learning the ropes.

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TheInternetJanitor wrote:
TheInternetJanitor wrote:

The free form skill selection never really excited me that much in CO. It just felt like a newbie trap since you could cherry pick the best abilities, so having abilities that performed a similar role but weren't as efficient at it was a pure drawback. In an environment where skills come in sets you can have several similar powersets with different parts of them being weaker or stronger to give them different feels. You can't do that very well in a free form system since the players will just pick those "good" skills. So you end up with just a very small number of builds with lots of powers either being nearly identical or never being picked. Every power has to be balanced in a vacuum.

As a bit of very ancient CoH history it turns out when the game was first being designed (by the same folks BTW who eventually went on the create CO) the Devs originally wanted CoH to be a fully free-form powers game. It sounded good in theory and they managed to get that idea to the alpha build stage. Unfortunately it turned out to be an unmitigated disaster. As you implied basically everyone min/maxed the "perfect" builds with very little variation and ended up being overpowered Tankmages. It would have been a complete mess had they decided to launch with that original design. Thankfully they went back the "drawing board", came up with the idea of preset archetypes/powersets and the rest is history.

The free-form system CO developed is (ironically enough) a sort of watered-down, version 2.0 of the system they originally wanted for CoH. It still sort of tends towards people min/maxing cookie cutter builds but they put enough control in the system to keep people from making their characters too powerful.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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What they need to do is tone

What they need to do is tone down the odd ball powers...like air strafe (or whatever it's name is that everyone was taking) and up the powers most likely to be more of a universal concept. Keep the outliers more as cosmetic/theme powers and less about "Yeah. Want the best attack in the game? Take the power that won't fit most concepts."

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Fortunately with CoT

Fortunately with CoT aesthetic decoupling most powers will work with most concepts. At least once enough props and animations get put in.

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I'd love some general feline

I'd love some general feline and canide options, but lynx, lion, and wolf are obviously the classics. Some scaly reptilian stuff wouldn't be bad either, I don't think that was even a thing in CoH. Like some lizard or crocodilian stuff.

Something clearly inspired by gorgons would verily kick ass. But I'd also like to see what kind of cool non-human original content the creators can come up with.

Adding the options for different kind of eyes independent of the rest of the face (like crocodile eyes on a human face, or maybe some classical Martian eyes - spider eyes too?) would be great too.

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If there is something close

If there is something close to a zilla model appearance for pets or heroes I will be happy. Come on, am I the only one whom wants to plays as or have a dragon, lizard or some other kaiju follow your commander around? Maybe lol.

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Phararri wrote:
Phararri wrote:

If there is something close to a zilla model appearance for pets or heroes I will be happy. Come on, am I the only one whom wants to plays as or have a dragon, lizard or some other kaiju follow your commander around? Maybe lol.

If I get to make the "I Know a Guy" that I'd like to, a dracoform would be useful. ^_^

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I'm sure I can manage

I'm sure I can manage something costume wise to look the way I intend to, but I'm hoping for more bestial movement options or idle stances.

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As many different animal

As many different animal forms they can pack in, the better. Also, count me in as another who is interested in non-human, non-animal forms. I

One of my favorite CO toons sports that ridiculous flower head with a Krampus face and it looks like a diabolical fey creature. I get compliments every time I play that toon. I'm hoping CoT gives us weird options like that. I realize niche desires of that sort shouldn't be a priority and wouldn't expect an enormous level of weirdness at launch, but I hope folks keep weirdness in mind as new issues come out (or whatever they call updates).

Side note: At a PAX convention in Seattle before CO launched, I remember asking the presenter about being able to make toons with no head. He didn't know if that were possible, but he thought it might be. At launch, of course, that wasn't a possibility. Several years later, though, it is now, with invisible body parts available with more than just the head. I'd like to think my one interaction with that game rep planted a seed in his head that he passed on, but more likely that idea germinated somewhere independent of my own wishes.

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and?? furries were a big
Cyclops wrote:
Project_Hero wrote:
Cyclops wrote:

A actual venus fly-trap for a head would be cool.
Personally, I never saw the appeal of werewolves. Some love the genre, however.

I still like human faces way too much.
If we had fur skins to go with the heads, I would fear a furry invasion. I do not want COT to look like Zootopia.

Animal and/or animalistic characters have been in comics for ages. Having the options is never a bad thing. Remember you don't need to use those options or interact with those who use them.

Agreed. animal heads have always been there. I just fear furries will invade if we become "too" option friendly.

and?? furries were a big part of the coh community, myself being one.

we shouldn't tell people they aren't welcome. plus if a game is good, furries will flock regardless.

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FalconStriker wrote:
FalconStriker wrote:

we shouldn't tell people they aren't welcome.

+=>9,000!

Also, would you tell this loveable critter that he's not welcome in City of Titans?

We don't want to be adding words like "but" or "except" after "Make Anyone" unless it is for technical or legal reasons. (Then it's not a case of wanting to, it's having to.)

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* ahem *

* ahem *

Beam Rifle/Traps powersets ... uh ... confirmed ... ?

Oh wait, that's just Rocket.


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The policecommissioner is a

The policecommissioner is a wolfman, dudes :p


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