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Ok. Now you're getting personal!
*takes off her mittens*
*growls at Bodai!*
[center][color=purple][size=16][b][I][url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78N2SP6JFaI]Just a cat from another star![/url][/I][/b][/size][/color][/center]
Maybe if Bodai could figure out how to make us believe the dead kitties are "just sleeping" then it might be OK. ;)
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
That is *exactly* it. Even more so if it is "developer endorsed" for it (as in putting in a *specific area/location* where the mature stuff can happen).
The same would also go if the game tried to have an area more suitable for the younger players as well (ie an E for Everyone/PEGI 7+). The game itself would still carry the normal "T for Teen"/"PEGI 12+"/"PEGI 16+" Rating.
About the only method that they can get around it, is by having 2 separate products, and locking it at the account level (and quite possibly making the younger and older content mutually exclusive at the account level, so you *cannot* have both enabled at the same time.
I know very little about the PEGI, but it may be helpful to look here for illustrative examples of the ESRB:
http://www.esrb.org/ratings/search.jsp
you can, for example, see that many games like "batman:arkham origins" managed a Teen rating, even with Blood, drug reference, mild language, suggestive themes, and violence. Final Fantasi XIV did also (language, mild blood, sexual themes, use of alcohol, etc." CoH and CoV both managed the teen rating, even though CoV had the player act as an agent of harm.
When you look at what can be applied and alluded to within those few examples, villainous activity shouldn't need to be too tame.
One thing that I have noticed just now (going through my games that carry a BBFC rating that is): The PEGI rating *might not* necessarily directly correlate to what BBFC rated it at.
example:
Mass Effect series: BBFC Rating 15. PEGI Rating 18.
Deus EX: Human Revolution: same as Mass Effect 3.
I am *not* 100% sure as to how these go right now, because the boxes that I have (which are CE versions), have just the BBFC Rating on them.
So whilst it *might* be entirely legal to sell the backstock for this to a 15 year old, any new stock with the *higher* rating would only be able to be sold to someone over the age of 18.
However, these games were released (or at least *rated* for release), before the change over between BBFC and PEGI happened (well, in terms of "how enforceable the PEGI rating is").
But I thought it would be worthwhile mentioning those titles, because I believe that both DE:HR and the whole Mass effect series got an "M for Mature" rating from ESRB
Well everything we've been talking about here may be academically moot in 2+ year’s time. For all we know society will be so far off the deep end that everything that would be rated "M for Mature" today might pass for "E for Everyone" in 2015. ;)
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
I'm chiming in a bit late, here, but I'd still like to address this issue.
In reading fiction and in watching it on TV and movies, I've found that I have no trouble interpreting and imagining 'adult' implications surrounding what's being depicted. What I've always found... interesting, is that when I have seen such 'adult' content explicitly depicted, it's always Less satisfying than my imagination.
The only times graphic depiction of 'adult' material have seemed as realistic as my imagination, has been when it was Negative - as in graphic violence. I generally just want to Look Away from that.
CoH/V/X/T is a game, which I participate in for entertainment and enjoyment. Yes, that entertainment includes doing violent things to my ragdoll targets. However, I do not need to see exploding viscera, severed limbs, or flying blood, nor do I need to hear realistic screaming, in order to 'improve my gaming experience'. By the same token, my gaming experience would not be 'improved' by soft or hard depictions of sexual situations.
Here's the key, though. I'm sure people might protest that they don't want any of the things I've just mentioned, but by requesting a relaxation of the 'Teen' setting, even especially in a separate location, they are asking the Devs to expend time and energy on creating something that the players who do not want 'adult' content, cannot or will not see. So, they're asking the Devs to make content suitable for a Completely Different Game.
The only real application for such content, that I can imagine, is so that one could role-play... a different situation than everyone else is playing. And that really makes me want to say, "Get a Room," if you want to do that. Even, "Get a different game."
Because, not once in this discussion, have I seen a suggestion of how Adult-rated material would actually improve the game.
Be Well!
Fireheart
I think the original premise of this thread can be summed up thusly:
Problem: The villain content of CoH was considered by many to be relatively tame and "Scooby-Doo" oriented.
Solution: Throw more "Adult Rated" material at it to make it more "better" or some such.
While Adult Rated material could directly liven up any game like this I think it's clear there are major drawbacks to it. I think the solution in CoT for "the villain side was too tame" issue will be better writing and better understanding of how far the limits of Teen-Rated environments can be pushed.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
Part of the problem with Redside in City of Heroes was that so much of the content followed the exact same model as what you had on Blueside ... which was Pizza Runs along with Step And Fetch It My Lackey type stuff. Every time you'd get sent to a new Contact they'd all follow the same pattern ... start with trash talk, give you "busy work" to prove yourself, be amazed when you came back, start hating to admit you might actually know up from down, and eventually they would (often grudgingly) START to respect you ... just in time to run out of story arc and send you off to a new Contact. Wash, Rinse, Repeat.
A lot of the missions were also just plain bad gimmicky writing that wasn't, at its core, all that Villainous. In fact, the some of the more consistently "dastardly" deeds you could supposedly get up to involved Newspaper missions, where you would supposedly be giving "beatdowns" to earn respect from people who "ought to know better" than to trash talk you. Relatively few of the missions, let alone the story arcs, involved anything that involved Psychological Thriller aspects to them, and were mostly just "I need to double cross someone, go do it for me" kind of stuff that was really unsatisfying.
One of the few standouts in the story arcs that DIDN'T follow this pattern was what [url=http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Peter_Themari]Peter Temari[/url] did (through you) to put [url=http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Pyriss]Pyriss[/url] into "play" and start her descent from Heroism into Villainy ... and ultimately becomes a Greater Devoured of the Devouring Earth, before being experimented upon [i]even further[/i] by [url=http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Vernon_von_Grun]Vernon von Grun[/url] to become a Super Devoured ... who has pretty much lost all of her Humanity. THAT story didn't disappoint on the Villainy aspects! (* hint hint *)
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[i]Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.[/i][/center]
yeah that arc was pretty good.
A distinction that was perhaps overly subtle: I would consider it a mark against them if they *can't* write to certain themes effectively without exceeding a "T" rating, but not simply because they *don't* do so. Though I will point out that while GRRM does stray into "M" territory, even quite solidly in one or two cases where it involved graphic descriptions of people being about as horrific to each other as most folks can conceive of outside a nightmare… the vast majority of the writing in the books doesn't actually push "T" all that hard, even. I agree that that particular story would be weaker if it couldn't make the forays into "M"-land that it does, but GRRM has also made it abundantly clear over the years that he is *quite* able to work within a more restrictive rating and still tell some rather visceral stories. Both literally and figuratively.
Can't speak to True Blood at all, I'm afraid. For the content thing, see below.
Mostly I was saying that while there was certainly content on red-side that wasn't terribly well written, by overall experience with it was that by and large it was at least somewhat better, on average, than blue-side. However, here I must disclaim that there is a *huge* potential for bias here, both in that as anyone who's known me for long enough can tell you I'm pretty much always more interested in "the bad guys" when they're more than cardboard cutouts, *and* the fact that I tended to play red-side a lot more heavily, meaning I may simply have *found* more of the good writing. When I was blue-side it tended to be grouping with folks, and often involved doing a very specific set of things at relatively high speed, so it wouldn't have been hard for me to miss stuff that was a bit off the beaten path.
As Mr. Phipps can attest, staying within a "T" rating still leaves quite a wide range of behaviors that can be really squirm-inducing for players who are playing villains that aren't Evil™ — his arc was probably the only one I *did* finish but the character-in-my-head really strongly disliked. They *desperately* needed a "Punch Phipps hard enough to put his face on the other side of his skull, and walk away in disgust" option to end the arc, though there are several good reasons they didn't have it. One of the things I actually like about some of the potential for our systems is that things like that could become a plausible response, with suitable consequences.
The arc that my main villain refused to ever finish was the Rikti war-faction/home-faction arc from the contact inside the central tower in Grandville (Kuh'rekt?) The initial reaction was because she believed that keeping the Rikti here was a flat-out *dumb* move, especially given what she initially knew about the Rikti (from doing the early RWZ story arcs). When she found out some of the additional information that later arcs reveal about the Rikti it went from "this is dumb" to "no, this is *not* *okay*".
It turns out that apparently one of her lines in the sand is that she's okay with beating the snot out of 'heroes' specifically *because they put on the cape*. They knew what they were getting into (or darn well should have), so they were fair game. Property damage was fair game because property can be replaced (which means that yes, she might actually have flinched at destroying property she knew *couldn't* be, such as an heirloom). But if there's a segment of folks who were almost certainly tricked into attacking you in the first place, who don't *want* to be attacking you, and who really just want to go the hell home and stay out of your way… setting things up so that they have no *choice* but to fight you isn't okay. It just *isn't*.
Interestingly, she was one of the only villains I ever bothered to run the cape missions on, and in retrospect I realized that I think she was also the only character I had who *always* wore a cape of some sort, at least among characters that actually had more than one outfit. Something I never actually noticed while playing her. She also ended up spending almost all of her time in RWZ rather than Grandville after she hit 50, not because she wanted to hang around heroes (before Going Rogue), but because she actually respected Vanguard's nominal intent as "something worth doing". Recluse… not so much.
I'm not certain about it, but I think video games may have a slightly different set of behaviors associated, here. Or it may just be that I burn through the same stuff a ridiculous amount faster because I play games a heck of a lot more than I watch TV. No matter where you start with the M/AO content, there will come a point when what you *started* with no longer has the impact it originally did. First truly graphic, gory horror-movie death? Brutal. Second one, third, even fourth or fifth? Can still be pretty brutal, but often won't be, especially if you're cramming them into a 2-3 movie. So you get into the classic ramp effect: to get the same reaction, you generally need to increase either the "dosage" (now you see a whole field of impaled bodies, not just one execution) or the concentration (you see them writhing and still alive, rather than inert and dead).
But then *that* starts to get burned out. So you kick it up another notch. And by the time you're 80 hours in, you're doing unspeakable things to puppies and blowing up aircraft carriers. For a single-player game, that's not necessarily bad; you hit a peak at some story climax, and then the game (hopefully) gives you some closer and ends. Or at least goes to NewGamePlus. As for going "well over the line": the difference between T and M-just-over-the-line is fart jokes vs., say, poop jokes. Or some equivalent. When you stick a toe over the line, it isn't "seriously mature content", it's mere titillation.
The way that T-rated stuff gets around this isn't unique to it (and could in theory be used with M/AO stuff, but rarely ever seems to be, even from folks who have high quality output, so I suspect there is a reason for it): variety. Mind you, even that gets stale eventually, but by that point you're probably also running up against "I've played every piece of content at least twice, why am I still here?" (the answer we want: "because it is still fun")
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and multipurpose sheep
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I completely agree. I would not have agreed before CoH shut down. However, at that time, I had absolutely no idea how many kids were playing the game. You want realism? See the world. There's enough to encourage me to go back to gaming. In fact, in a lot of ways, although I enjoy the female form as much as the next guy, I wish CoH wouldn't have dressed Desdemona, Swan, Sister Psyche and Serafina so scantily. Mother Mayhem needn't have been blessed in the BAF cartoon either. Not complaining, but those things certainly didn't add to the story, the plot or anything other than some tittilating jokes from time to time. Just my 2 cents. Keep it adult - and by adult, I mean keep it responsible.
It would be bad form for any of us to preach morality. People get their feelings hurt that way, and we'd never please everyone. But, the game should have a rating for the responsible parents to determine if their child could/should play the game. In my mind, aside from the skimpy outfits, CoH got it right.
Just my 2 cents.
Those who have no idea what they are doing have no idea that they don't know what they are doing. - John Cleese
I know some people want 'kill' instead of 'capture', even for villains, with the idea that villains wouldn't necessarily capture, indeed, some would kill. The problem with that route, and not the CoH route that had a "knock out and teleport to prison" idea is: How many times can you kill Jack Jester before you lose immersion because.. this is the 100th time you've killed him, and he'll just come back to life next time?
Also: I see killing on the news. I see killing in most "dark, gritty comics".. I see killing in movies and even TV shows.. I don't need yet another venue to see killing with all the blood and gore. I was happy and satisfied to capture and send 'em back to prison, even knowing they'd break out.. cause when they break out, I don't lose immersion.
Every NPC and such having access to a "Lazerus Pit" just seems a bit far fetched >.>
Shazam!
As to 'skimpy clothes': I've seen less on women at the beach, so it's no real biggie.
For those that say "There's a time and place for skimpy, and the beach is one, but not fighting crime!" I say "But comic books have given us president with scantily clad X-Women and, for sure, even Wonder Woman (tm), so.. fighting crime using super powers IS the time and place, yes?"
>.>
And I'm a woman, and yes, I want some of my character to look like those characters from the comics.. scantily clad and in supertight spandex. That's part of the genre.
Shazam!
Either way I found it a bit immersion breaking. Because even if ya send one to prison, it seems straight idiotic to try the same plan over and over for the 100th time.
But the way I viewed it is that if I killed them, they were dead or arrested in my time line realm and thus ya may not see them again in the story arc line of my character or may hear about them later breaking out of jail. When I team, I'm in the mission holder time line.
But that is one of the reasons I tried to avoid farms. That was immersion breaking like crazy, killing or sending them off to jail or putting them in some personal dungeon.
But the feeling I think for me has more to do with the writing than the actual gore or lack of. When it seems obvious they are merely trying to water it down, then it can break immersion. But with good story telling and writing, I don't care if it's PG level or painting a room with someone's guts, two coats, if it's good writing I'm immersed. Then again, with bad writing doesn't matter if it's pg or choking someone to death with their intestines, it would be immersion breaking.
Although one thing that seemed odd about COX COH side especially, it's like the jail people were some of the most incompetent folks on the planet. I mean a halfed brain baboon could guard a jail better than they can. I mean why do I keep sending this dude to jail if they lose him every time? But that is common in super hero comics as well. Kind of why I like the Punisher. Save the trouble time and BS and get to end and shoot them in the head.
Well I figure why when a bikini that shows lot of skin, no problem. But accidently walk in on that same person in their underwear, man, they try to cover up like it's the end of the world. "5 seconds ago, we was walking on the beach in your thong and pasties. Now in full bra and granny panties, ya trying to cover up?"
But yeah been to Europe and in some places, "What clothes?" Me I don't look at a woman always in some perverted way. If a woman super hero wants to wear nothing but a cape and heels, fine by me. If they want to wear an outfit with nothing but their eyes showing, fine by me. So yes, to me, fighting crime is the time and place.
Although of course, you get those people who act like they never seen a pair before and act like uncontrollable apes.
Yes, and the controversial things are often the one's that are worth doing.
Well, I guess my point here is that I don't agree on the reason you are stating that it was being cordoned off. I think it was more about the arguable failure of the PvP implementation overall that it occupied a sorry little niche as it did. It is natural to want to hide something you are not proud of or don't know how to fix, the debate circled around many things.
I don't know what to say about your annoyance with discourse, stop following that topic maybe? Are you looking for some kind of closure of things? Is that required somehow?
Either way your conjecture does not mean that that is what will happen. If a would-be mature area were poorly implemented or executed such that it was a similar disappointment to PvP, then it might be a good comparison case, but we are way out on a tangent at that point.
I don't think I need the practice, but I appreciate your sentiment, and part of me was actually thinking the same thing actually.
While the red names have "weighed in" as you say, I would hardly declare the issue dead at that point. And we did get some very interesting feedback.
Actually convincing the dev's to include a mature area at launch would be nice, but that was not my goal, that would have been way too optimistic.
Especially after reading the comments on this thread from everyone, including red names, I think we are in majority agreement that more mature content has merit. But perhaps simply "pushing" the boundaries of the "Teen" rating would be enough---something I feel the original COX didn't do.
I think it was actually already closer to the bottom end of the teen rating rather than anywhere near the mature rating side, if we were to look at it as a scale.
My only mild annoyance here (and I think Cinnder is with me on this) are some of the people who chime in here and declare how things will be, and that these are the "facts". You are entitled to your opinion. But you are not entitled to your own facts.
-Bodai
Extremely well said Lothic, we are on the same page.
Consider either a separate mature area, or "pushing" teen content as Lothic says here as options or ideas on how the problem could be solved. And can people think of more?
-Bodai
What if I told you they killed each other?
I agree that most of the writing in CoX didn't push the Teen rating and that there is certainly room for story arcs that do use every element available to provide stories that reach those boundaries.
The separate mature area I don't feel is a good solution for one main reason. If I remember correctly, the game rating is based on the highest rated content in the game, so a mature area, even one behind an age-restricted seal, would set the entire game to a M rating. Since the goal is for the game to have a T rating, a mature area would counter that goal.
Alternate idea: More of an addition than a substitution, as I think that taking full advantage of the range offered by a T rating should be done no matter what. Since official mature content would push the rating to M, having the ability for players to add their own via something like the AE would be nice. The quality of writing would vary widely, but it would fall into the 'player-generated content' section that would not affect the rating.
I looked through this whole thread, and while I'm on the side of "We don't need M/AO content in this game" because of personal preference, there's another problem with having a mature zone that I've not seen addressed: access to content.
One of the things that has been stated by the devs is that they're going to do their darndest to make sure that all content (story arcs, badge hunting, etc.) would be made available and attainable by all players, regardless of if you enjoy playing solo, teaming, prefer playing PvE or PvP, etc.
This mission statement alone pretty much breaks with the idea of an area restricted for maturity, without even getting into all the rest of the problems listed in this thread.
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Adult things will exist.. I just don't want them to be game sanctioned.
That being said.. don't do what Marvel Heroes did by giving us no option to turn off the censor filter
Crowd Control Enthusiast
I would say the fact that Marvel Heroes is using the 3/4 static-view format is more of an issue ... and I'm a Baldur's Gate fan. I did play it for a while, but it's not what I want from a superhero game.
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Hopefully they live up to that instead of COX style of "we are aiming for all play styles whether one like to solo or team or pvp or pve except these sets of missions are team gated, oh and to get this stuff you must go through the market or good luck getting extremely lucky, and to slot this feature of incarnate you must team and farm trials." AKA not only attainable but some what equally effective obtainable regardless of playstyle. Not like incarnates where you either had to team and farm or take months to get enough for one slot solo the mission arcs and call that "See solo players can get that stuff too. We reached the goal of everything is available to all playstyles.
I support a M rating, just so parents (and I am one) can't complain about something happening in game, and their child is playing it. This doesn't mean the devs have to really make anything M rated, it just means they can if they so desire, and parents can act like parents.
As for players that ERP, yeah, like any rating will stop that. Look at SW:TOR. Rated Teen and it ran rampant with sex slaves.
You mean this? http://web.archive.org/web/20120904191606/http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=122918
Former Online Community Manager & Forum Moderator
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[b][size=30]YES. THAT![/size][/b]
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I'd heard the name Sister Flame ... think I may have even done the AH they made, but I never knew about the back story. Very cool ^_^ (finished reading. Hope Sister Flame and her family are doing well)
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50 of them, to be precise ;)
Actually, [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X11_color_names#Shades_of_gray]there are 100 where I live.[/url]
[i]Has anyone seen my mind? It was right here...[/i]
Yes, but there are only [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifty_Shades_of_Grey]fifty[/url] of them in the joke Nadira was trying to make. ;)
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
Of course, of course, but some of us try to be more resistant to those social tropes. My own reaction was to mention 64 or 256 'shades of grey', but I refrained. I didn't want to seem to criticize Nadira or discourage further posts. Lin's mention of the 0-100% scale of greys (or grays) is also one I'm familiar with.
Be Well!
Fireheart
Also, I was playing off my personal opinion that a color table specification is more relevant to CoT than bad Twilight fanfic.
[i]Has anyone seen my mind? It was right here...[/i]
For what it's worth I've never read the books and have no desire to see the upcoming movie (especially after I glanced over the wiki related to it for a few seconds and saw that it does have an actual connection to the "T-word" franchise, god forbid) but at least I got and appreciated the topical "color" reference.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
Here's an idea.
Play the game.
If you get an itch, log off and scratch it.
Wash your hands.
Log back on.
(Rolls eyes)
Chivalry lives while I breathe
Well I just read (on [url=http://massively.joystiq.com/2014/01/22/the-elder-scrolls-online-receives-mature-rating/]Massively[/url]) that the ESRB slapped Elder Scrolls Online with a "Mature Only" rating. According to the article the ESO Devs disagree with that ruling but they don't plan to change anything in order to sneak back over to a "Teen" rating.
While I still believe CoT should stick with its intent to be a "Teen" rated game it does once again raise the question of whether there would ever be enough market willpower to support a "Mature Superhero MMO" concept in the future. Trying to start a game using Kickstarter is a hard enough proposition - could a game like this really afford to lose potential financial support with a narrower target for a playerbase?
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
A good distance to go before launch, or even Beta.
We'll continue to use the T-rating as our guidepost as I see it. We are expecting to serve a variety of players, including families. So, we need to be sensitive to that. It in no way prevents edgy driven stories.
-
Terlin
[color=#ff0000]The Bullpen[/color]
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Keep it T for Teen. Never understood the need for gratuitous T and A in comics. If you want something like that just go buy a Penthouse or Playboy. I'm more interested in the story and action than I am whether or not somebody gets lucky. Keep the language filter like CoH had and maybe add some blood, but other than that keep it a family game. You'll have more people able to play that way.
I got chills! They're multiplyin'. And I'm losin' control. Cuz the power, I'm supplyin'. Why it's ELECTRIFYIN'!!
Again to be clear I think CoT should remain "T for Teen" if for no other reason than to get as big a playerbase as possible to support it. But that still doesn't stop me from also being interested in a hypothetical "Mature Superhero MMO" at some point in the future, even if MWM has nothing to do with it.
I don't think the superhero genre NEEDS foul language, "T and A" and/or blood-n-guts to be enjoyable.
But as an adult who from time to time enjoys entertainment with mature themes the concept of superhero stories which also happen to include foul language, "T and A" and/or blood-n-guts as part of the story doesn't bother me that much. Therefore I'm simply stating that a "Mature Superhero MMO" might be something that I'd enjoy and if games like ESO can launch and likely succeed with a MO rating then maybe eventually a Superhero MMO can do that too.
I have no delusions that CoT will become a MO game in any form or fashion. But as I've said before in this thread I see no reason why CoT couldn't push the upward boundaries of what's allowable as a "Teen" rated game for everything it's worth.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
I can agree with both of you.
I am also not overly sensitive to displays of a sexual or violent nature in films, or books for that matter. Where I draw the line is "Is it really relevant to the story?" I have read many books and seen movies that deliver on story and keep me gripped until the end, often with strong themes, but they usually did not find it necessary to fill in all the blatant details. It would have done little to enhance the story, and in many cases leaving the details for me to sort out was far superior to anything that could be added.
Then there have been both films and books (more frequent for both recently, for me) that fling these visuals with little relevance to the story. Frankly, I loose interest, and wonder if the creators are just trying to shock me into appreciating their work.
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We will find the balance and we will keep it engaging. No worries.
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Terlin
[color=#ff0000]The Bullpen[/color]
[img]http://missingworldsmedia.com/images/favicon.ico[/img]
And then there was [url=http://myanimelist.net/anime/18677/Yuusha_ni_Narenakatta_Ore_wa_Shibushibu_Shuushoku_wo_Ketsui_Shimashita.]Yuusha ni Narenakatta Ore wa Shibushibu Shuushoku wo Ketsui Shimashita[/url] that just finished airing in Japan. Nice story, decent characters, interesting world ... and so much unnecessary fan service for the *boys* that it felt like the show was blatantly trolling with multiple instances of really unnecessary sex appeal MULTIPLE times [i]per episode[/i], none of which were relevant to really anything at all. First time I've ever watched an anime (all the way through to the end) and wished the show had LESS sex appeal so that it could afford to take itself more seriously. It was almost as if the people making it were afraid that if there weren't boobs and butts everywhere (and I do mean EVERYWHERE) then no one would bother with watching their show.
Suffice it to say, we don't need THAT in City of Titans!
I mean, a little bit is "nice to have" but when you're getting your face shoved in it all the time ... no thanks.
[center][img=44x100]https://i.imgur.com/sMUQ928.gif[/img]
[i]Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.[/i][/center]
That would be the latest _Transformers_ movie for me. The violence was just one constant drone after the first part, and the characters were so shallow anyway, that I felt like just leaving in the middle. Would have, if I weren't Redlynne's ride home. "Wow, it's Leonard Nimoy!" doesn't excuse it.
[i]Has anyone seen my mind? It was right here...[/i]
They were robots. :p
I think CoT should have just the same amount as CoH did. We'll see the bikini clad female in stilettos running around. We'll have the male running around in nothing but a thong and cape, because it'll be costume options.
[img=350x250]http://otakujournalist.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/fanservice.jpg[/img]
Freud was famously credited with saying "Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar".
In this case sometimes an anime is just straight-up porn. ;)
I still feel bad I spent money on and wasted hours of my life watching the first one much less... what are they up to... Number 8 or 9 by now?*
* [i]I actually know Transformers 4 is coming out this summer. It's just that Bay's messed that franchise up so much I barely care when/if the next one is being dumped on us.[/i]
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
So? Are you saying that they were not, in fact, more than meets the eye?
And, by extension, we shouldn't have female boobs bouncing around like Jell-O, or Dr. Manhattan or Kekko Kamen clones.
[i]Has anyone seen my mind? It was right here...[/i]
I'm saying I see a difference between animated violence against what is a machine versus people.
As for jiggle physics, really don't care though didn't realize that put one closer to M rating either.
Dr Manhattan I know of, not Kekko, but I'm going to guess she's the female version of the Doc and that she goes around totally naked? Outside of Scarlet Blade, what MMO has complete nudity as a costume option? To all the other MMOs I can think of, there were no such option.
yeah over all, aiming for a rated T environment may be best but remember boobs and violence are not the only thing that goes into maintaining a T rating for families. Also language. I assume there will be a filter so that should take care of that. But wouldn't mind having a button like the language filter that turns blood on and off. Or battle damage (if the graphic engine supports it). Sometimes I find it weird that I hit a dude with a hammer that look like it weights 50-100lb and they get up with not a single bruise until they just go ragdoll to the floor. And I'm not saying or suggesting the blood must be manga 300 gallons per body amount. But sometimes, a little bit more graphic would be nice, if possible. May be too finicky to work with, but an idea.
Well, Age of Conan does 'Topless w/ G-string', but it gets the M-rating for more than the nudity.
Be Well!
Fireheart
This is True (T.i.T)
Several weeks ago I had the opportunity to discover that WoW would not allow me to use a particular name I had chosen for a character because, if one looked at a specific part of the name, one had 'boob'.
I do understand the desire to prevent derogatory, insulting, or otherwise offensive names, but as far as that goes I hope we can all agree on the premise that everyone who plays the game can handle subject matter that goes above a primary school level.
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[font=Pristina][size=18][b]Hail Beard![/b][/size][/font]
Support [url=http://cityoftitans.com/comment/52149#comment-52149]trap clowns[/url] for CoT!
indeed.
Booby is a bird. From the sounds of it, that would be a no go to the WoW realm?
Instead of T, maybe go for 16+ Isn't that what CoH ended at?
I would have to resub, but I would also assume that Dick (as in Richard) is something that would be censored as well then, and Scunthorpe
Guess it depends on which ratings system you're looking at but the [url=http://www.esrb.org/ratings/ratings_guide.jsp]ESRB[/url] has "Everyone 10+", "Teen" (which is for 13+) and "Mature" (which is for 17+) ratings.
If memory serves CoH launched with a Everyone 10+ rating and CoV launched with a Teen rating. Once CoV was fully merged with CoH the united game fell under the Teen umbrella and stayed that way until the end.
Don't know what age cutoffs other rating systems use off-hand, but something like a "16+" is probably not happening here.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
The 16+ is probably a back reference to when I was referring to what CoH (12+) and CoV (16+) were, and that is the PEGI rating (which is EU wide).
So whilst the game might get a T rating for the US, DONT be surprised if it got a 16+ rating in the EU (oh, and its legally enforceable in some of those countries as well... UK, France, Iceland, Austria a few others which means that selling it to someone under that age rating is a fine/jail sentence for the person selling it).
Some other countries (Germany, Ireland for example) have their own rating system which is quite possibly more harsh than PEGI 9[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unterhaltungssoftware_Selbstkontrolle]USK Rating system for Germany[/url] for example.
Well like I said I don't know what other ratings systems are going to do - there are probably dozens of them around the world all with their own localized cultural standards.
To be clear when I said "16+" isn't going to happen "here" I was referring just to the ESRB and that system's leaning towards a 16+ age range being a "mature" title. If the ratings scales between PEGI and ESRB don't exactly line up that's not really going to be our problem or even MWM's problem. For all we know there are other systems out there which'll rate CoT spanning the spectrum between an "E for everyone" title to a "XXX Adult Only" title.
The fact that all these systems don't really match up scale-wise just leads me to not put too much faith in any of them. Clearly MWM is going to shoot for a "Teen" rating the way the ESRB defines it. What that means for anyone else's ratings authority is up to them. *shrugs*
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
I think this one, from [url=http://www.the-whiteboard.com/]The Whiteboard[/url], is better:
[img]http://www.the-whiteboard.com/autoaf05.gif[/img]
Only Humans I've seen in that webcomic with detailed heads ^_^
Foradain, Mage of Phoenix Rising.
[url=https://cityoftitans.com/forum/foradains-character-conclave]Foradain's Character Conclave[/url]
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Avatar courtesy of [s]Satellite9[/s] [url=https://www.instagram.com/irezoomie/]Irezoomie[/url]
I have worn a lot less on the beach.
I do not mind if skimpy clothes and painted on spandex is available. But there are also characaters who do not care for dressing like that and would prefer something more fashionable casual instead.
Which was easily done in CoH and I have no fear the same will be valid for CoT as well.
That said, the imagery of women that is presented by comic books is troubling in many ways, same as the way women are depicted in so many video clips, advertisements and even movies. That it is traditional for the genre is not automatically a valid excuse. A site like escher girls tumblr does a good job at pointing out the issues there are with the way women are portrayed in comics. repair her armor tumblr is another one. There are other sites discussing this issue, but these two are the ones that I follow with some degree of regularity.
The problem here is that a low budget studio like MIssing Worlds Media can not risk altering the status quo (and the big studios will not do so for fear of missing even a single dollar cent of profit), and a game like City of Titans is not, probably, the best venue for change anyway. A bit of awareness of the line between female sexiness (as our societies define it) and objectification, and care not to cross it, would go a long way to make the game stand out without sacrificing the player expectations).
Fun thing is that Star Wars: The Old Republic had a long running discussion on its forum about a similar topic sparked by the fact that at launch only female characters were saddled with midriff baring tops and chainmail bikinis (aka. princess leia outfits) while the male characters pretty much resembled monks in the way the were covered head to toes. Females could also cover up completely, but they were gently pushed into running around in their underwear. There were some great examples created by players of sexy clothing for males. But the discussion turned hostile and acidic over and over again because players refused to understand that the fact that sexy clothing was available for female characters only was problematic but did not mean it was demanded to be done away with entirely (and replaced with nuns habits).
If I understand you correctly you seem to be implying something along the lines of "because MWM is not a huge company it can't afford to ignore the comic book status quo of skimpy outfits for females otherwise it would alienate its fanbase". Who exactly is arguing that COT must take a political stand against objectification and force all of its female characters to wear burka-like outfits at all times?
I'm an advocate for all characters (of any gender) having as many costume options as possible and I think CoT will do its best to live up to that goal. As long as this game allows for anything ranging from pseudo-naked thong bikini type outfits all the way to "no-skin-showing" modesty or anything in-between then players themselves can decide what they want.
Basically MWM doesn't need to be a "venue for change" as long as it offers as many options for everyone as possible.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
I always found the discussion of the topic on TOR forums to be one of the worst examples of it.
First, it's a setting that no matter what you wear, lightsaber is going through it! No matter what you're wearing laser blast is going through it!
Watch those movies! For all that armor the storm troopers are wearing, they went down in one blast :p
Next it showed just how much the forum posters were the minority. :p
Not to digress the topic too much, but I always figured that the "classic" white plastic on rubber suit Stormtrooper Armor really wasn't intended to be something that could stop blasters and other "murderous" energy weapons. Instead, the plastic body armor protected against "incidental" hazards and low tech improvised weapons ... such as (non-energy) blades, impacts and abrasions and other low level sources of injury. The rubber body suit and helmet setup provided protection against chemical and biological agent attacks, so that Stormtroopers couldn't be taken out with gas attacks and the like.
In other words, they'd be decently protected against poorly armed irregulars and less prone to suffer incapacitating injuries from their environment and low tech weapons and traps. As you'll recall, in Star Wars VI, the Stormtrooper infantry gave a pretty good account of themselves (despite the fact that they only managed to kill *ONE* Ewok on screen, damage R2-D2 and merely wound Leia!). Their only problem was they got tricked into being outnumbered, outmaneuvered and outflanked by adversaries who knew the terrain better, leading them to being forced to surrender.
[center][img=44x100]https://i.imgur.com/sMUQ928.gif[/img]
[i]Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.[/i][/center]
You should have seen how animated people became when the mere suggestion was made to include the likes of bikinis in the game. You'd think someone was proposing the opening of a speakeasy during the Prohibition.
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[font=Pristina][size=18][b]Hail Beard![/b][/size][/font]
Support [url=http://cityoftitans.com/comment/52149#comment-52149]trap clowns[/url] for CoT!
And yet, they put it in and male and female players the world over decided it was best to run around the whole game dressed in the slave girl bikini or have their companion dressed in it or both. Nevermind the other options.
For one part, it's Star Wars. Any setting with such popularity has its own culture and quirks. The other part, and it's usually a big one, is the forbidden fruit.
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[font=Pristina][size=18][b]Hail Beard![/b][/size][/font]
Support [url=http://cityoftitans.com/comment/52149#comment-52149]trap clowns[/url] for CoT!
Damnit Fez, now I want to make a [url=http://tomax.cohtitan.com/data/powers/archetype.php?at=2#Controller_Control.Plant_Control]Plant[/url]/[url=http://tomax.cohtitan.com/data/powers/archetype.php?at=2#Controller_Buff.Nature_Affinity]Nature[/url] Controller named ... Forbidden Fruit of the Loot'em ... who runs around in his tidy whitey underwear and bare skin ...
[center][img=44x100]https://i.imgur.com/sMUQ928.gif[/img]
[i]Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.[/i][/center]
You make it sound like you need an excuse to play a power set that has vines/tentacles. And that's okay! Just do make certain that they're primly dressed. This nude tentacle epidemic simply must be put to an end.
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[font=Pristina][size=18][b]Hail Beard![/b][/size][/font]
Support [url=http://cityoftitans.com/comment/52149#comment-52149]trap clowns[/url] for CoT!
Your automatic reaction of 'do you want everybody dressed in a burqua' is pretty much the reaction that fouled the discussion in SW:TOR too, and it is as wrong here as it was there.
The only thing I really want to bring to attention, of the developers more than of the players, is that there is within the genre of superhero comics an undertone of objectfication of women (and of stereotyping of men). I am aware that a small studio can not challenges the expectations that come with the genre too much, but I do hope they will at least try to avoid the more egragious examples of it.
I am trying not to derail this into a feminist analysis of the entire superhero genre (for one thing because it is outside the scope of this board, and for another because there are others who are vastly more capable of that than I am). But one of the simple things to do is to not have sexy outfits -only- for female characters. Another is to not limit the body types available to female characters to either anorexic or barbie-physics, but instead giving them the same range you give to the male characters. And of course in the writing of your NPC heroes and villains to consciously avoid the gender stereotypes (white mage, black mage and staff chick for the females, all other roles only men need apply). Looking at the 'Tropes versus Women' series of videos (on the website that can be found under the same name) is a good way of understanding how common and seemingly innocent conventions of the genre are often rather troublesome.
Quite so! Arbiter Fabulous needs to be sexy too!
All kidding aside, Nadira has a point that any nods towards sexual objectification [i]ought to be[/i] gender agnostic as far as the costume editor is concerned.
[center][img=44x100]https://i.imgur.com/sMUQ928.gif[/img]
[i]Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.[/i][/center]
I'm almost afraid to ask, but could you specify? Give examples?
I don't get mad, I restructure the laws of quantum physics and resolve the situation with temporal engineering.
It was, IIRC, intended to deflect poorly-aimed shots and to dissipate -- as much as was practical in non-powered armor -- a more solid blaster bolt, so that while the trooper would be injured or incapacitated, they wouldn't be killed outright. The body suit was also a vacuum and hostile-environment suit, allowing them to be deployed in different environments with the same gear; it wasn't a panacea, though -- you will remember the variant gear the icetroopers wore on Hoth, for example. The design was also able to incorporate a shield projector to provide additional protection against energy weapons, although the power consumption was high enough to limit their usefulness and use.
That wasn't an "automatic" knee-jerk reaction on my part. I was actually asking YOU who else but YOU was fearing that this game will be hyper-objectifying to women? As far as I've seen no one at MWM is overtly promoting the objectification of women or going out of their way to cast it as a big societial issue that must be single-handedly solved by them either. I think you're trying to transplant a hot-button political issue from other MMOs and assume it is (or will) be a problem here as well.
Since you've now made this point twice I feel the need to categorically object to your negative insinuation that because MWM is a "small studio" they are going to be either unwilling or unable to assert their views on preventing/mitigating overt sexual objectification. I don't know what your history with CoH was but it was probably one of the more progressive games out there as far as minimizing gender inequality amongst costume options. There are absolutely no grounds to believe that CoT won't be even BETTER in this regard.
No one denies that there's a degree of objectification when it comes to the superhero genre at large. Now one could argue that it should be CoT's duty as a modern MMO to try to actively stamp out all traces of that kind of thing because it would be the "politically correct" thing to do. On the other hand I once again argue that as long as the game provides as many options as possible for all body types it will effectively sidestep the entire debate on whether objectification is a problem to be directly "handled" by the Devs. With maximum costume freedom all players will be left to their own devices to decide what "objectification" may mean to them and it'll effectively become a non-issue.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
All kidding aside I was just trying to ask Nadia who was asking for MORE sexual objectification here? She seems to think (perhaps based on her experience with other MMOs) it's going to be far more of a problem here than I believe it actually will be.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
Incorrect reading of what she said. She wasn't asking for "more" in the sense of "NEED MOAR!" but was rather asking for equality between the genders, such that if it's done for females then at least have the decency to do it for males too.
Sauce for the goose is good for the gander, and all that.
Some degree of sexiness and "objectification" is pretty much inevitable (not to mention, expected, since this is a comic book genre game) ... but that such "attributes" should not be exclusively aimed at females, because males should be fair game too.
[center][img=44x100]https://i.imgur.com/sMUQ928.gif[/img]
[i]Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.[/i][/center]
Now I'm just curious, how many here had a female avatar in CoH with the waist set to max?
Just a couple of thoughts. First, if you are going to make a case for segregated M/AO content in-game, then you are probably better off trying to convince the devs to create a separate server entirely for your shinanigans as opposed to a "roped off" area within each "regular" server (I am hopeful we will need many, many servers to handle the EPIC number of players we will be hosting!). Additionally, you would want to encourage the releasing of such content as a SEPARATE product so that the "original" CoT can maintain its "T for Teen" rating, and minimizing MWM's exposure/risk with regard to age verification, etc.
That being said, my personal feeling is that the direction CoT is heading currently represents "the most good for the most people", and I think we owe it to the team to give them the opportunity to show us what they can do within the boundaries of a TEEN rating before we arbitrarily decide "more blood/gore/sex/foul language=better game", wouldn't you agree? Remember, too, that this is the spiritual successor to CoH and part of that legacy will always mean the majority focus on all things HEROIC. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE me some villainy every now and again but, in this case, our evils primarily serve as a means to highlight the good by comparison. In Titan City, just like in Paragon City, we keep our C.H.I.N.s (Compassion, Honor, Integrity, Nobility) up and, like my pappy used to say, "You can't soar with the eagles if you're wallowing in the mud with the pigs."
Just my opinion. Feel free to raaaage.... now! ;)
Bloodfyre- 50+ Invuln/Fire Tank- Guardian.
"Tanker, not Thinker!"
*Raises Hand* I had one that had ALL the sliders set to max called "Titanna", and another that had max waist/min bust called "Pearilus". Fun stuff :)
Bloodfyre- 50+ Invuln/Fire Tank- Guardian.
"Tanker, not Thinker!"
Actually had more than a few. Aimed for the more normal average body type. Wanted to create a thick and or chunky female but it wasn't much possible. No muffin tops :(
Not even pudges.
T for teen content. No if ands or buts. CoH was T for teen, and we are makinga spiritual successor. Don't try to fix what isn't broken
I don't get mad, I restructure the laws of quantum physics and resolve the situation with temporal engineering.
I had a petite magical girl with maximum waist. I think I had at least one muscular amazon with a waist somewhat near the max.
Incorrect reading? Obviously she's not asking for more objectification herself. My point was that NO ONE else is asking for more either. I was asking her why she thinks it's actually going to be such an uniquely overt problem here?
She's asking the Devs "Gee, I hope they try to do their best to eliminate it". Why on Earth does she think that's not what they're going to try to do anyway? She's already belittled the Devs of CoT by making a semi-silly claim that "Well we all know they are a small company so we obviously can't expect them to do much about eliminating objectification". Basically after she made such a left-field non sequitur like that I didn't pay the rest of her boiler-plate rambling much attention. *shrugs*
P.S. And for what it's worth people like you and me have already mentioned in this thread (many times) that it would be good for all genders to have as many costume options as possible for all sorts of reasons. She wasn't original with that idea either.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
You just won't let this one go... In some twisted way I admire this kind of bull-headed tenacity. ;)
But seriously like others who've answered your question I had several female alts in CoH who had costume slots set with "chubby" proportions. Well, of course as "chubby" as CoH allowed for at any rate which (as you know I'm going to say) wasn't nearly chubby enough.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
I had several teen and pre-teen heroines built with min-bust and max-waist, and other sliders to suit. The first time I did it was mostly just to prove it could be done, in protest to a wave of horrible child-prostitutes I was seeing. That fad wore out, thankfully, but I kept the techniques for future use and had 3-4 very young characters in my 200-toon roster.
Be Well!
Fireheart
Honestly, the "default" body for both male and female were so out of whack I never left the sliders alone for either gender. I expect it was an effort to provide the distorted "9-head" proportion of the comics, rather than the actual 7-8 head proportion that is more realistic.
I almost always shortened the legs and increased the head size for both genders. For females, I almost always thickened the waist and reduced the bust size, and usually reduced the hips and widened the shoulders for a more "athletic" look. To be fair, males also usually got slightly bigger shoulders and waists, too because I was usually going for the typical heroic look.
Mayan Warbird was kind of a spoof on a stereotypical hero-tank, actually, with massive upper body and tiny waist. And I had a few very slim male blasters. (What did they need muscles for, right?) I never personally felt the lack of obese or asexual character models. ::shrug:: But, as always, I'm for more options wherever we can get them. :D
Objectification is a tricky word to use when you're talking about avatars. They are, somewhat by definition, objectifications of something or other. However, in any game where you WANT the players to develop emotional attachments with said avatars, you need to give them enough options to create one they can identify with. One would hope that some notion of "realism" would help in that. OTH, I'm of the opinion (perhaps un-popularly) that society (and in microcsm, game develepment) is not obliged to spend 20%, or even 10%, of it's resources on pandering to the .01% fringe. So again, options are good, enforced gender-neutrality is bad. (for the record, I'm not saying anyone is asking for that, I'm consciously using an extreme, ok?)
If the QoL improvement suggestions that have been mentioned in this thread really required the hyperbolic "10% or more Dev resources to pander to the 0.01%" then yes I would agree that ratio would make things like that unjustifiable.
I simply contend that the reality of many of these suggestions is more like the reverse of your numbers. For instance I conservatively suspect at least 10-20% of the playerbase really would like to have "chubby" costume options (based on years worth of in-game and forum responses) and if the Devs set their minds towards providing them the overall extra Dev resources needed to produce them would be fairly small by comparison.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
Most of the "chubby" I saw in CoH and in CO was skinny waist, then add mass. I hardly ever saw maxed out waist line in CoH. We have a few forum goers saying "ME!" but I hardly ever saw maxed waist. Middle maybe, but then they'd go less on the bulk.
And this was a bit different. This wasn't talk of chubby in the same sense as before, this was talk of the waist line slider in CoH, which was different than the body mass slider.
Well that is how it usually works.
In game, no one running certain TFs, no one wanted to join, it was disaster waste of hours trying to get enough people together.
Then go on forum asking, "hey, how come no one does such and such TF" then people come out the wood work as if that TF is the most popular thing ever. Leaving one to wonder ,"where were all of you in the game?"
I didn't have one female with maxed out breasts. One, I'm not a breast man to begin with. They have my attention in real life to someone I'm highly attracted to for about 2 seconds and after that they are payed no more attention than I do a piece of lint in the far corner of the room that been there for 5 years. Two, it was just too common to max out the slider.
And same way for me in CO. But then again, still many, small below the waist but these gigantic balls sitting on the chest characters running around. But hey, what ever floats their boat.
But either way it goes, I hope there is a bit more variety with body type sliders. Especially for females. Yeah yeah I know "chubby" chicks are hardly in the comic books and that is not how the DC and Marvel do it, but I say why not? There are many things that DC and Marvel do that mmo super hero games did that was very uncomic book hero type and considered good and super hero game standard that is rare or uncommon in comic book hero lore but yet considered COX standard must have.
My experience goes in the other direction and that's based on years worth of in game and forum responses.
Look at TOR, body types 3 (the muscled amazon) and body type 4 (the more robust) were not the popular female body types. Body type 1 and 2 were. Even among the female players. And most of the Body type 4 (who unlike the female body type 4 look like they were much more than just robust, but OMG HEY...need to work some of that off) males I saw were usually (note that I didn't say always) joke characters.
In my experience, a majority of players (note again, I didn't say all) want to play what is generally considered a good looking character. Generally looking like one needs to lose 150lbs to look somewhat healthy, isn't considered that.
Hell, for all the talk of fat character, while females in CoH didn't have that option, HUGE Male avatars could do it much more with the right sliders, and we didn't see that many HUGE avatars.
First off CoH's huge male body allowed for HUGE male bodies that were still proportionally "in-shape", not HUGE chubby/tubby "out-of-shape" bodies. Apples and oranges to this discussion.
But to the core of the matter I've already conceded (maybe a dozen times in this thread every few days for weeks) that not EVERYONE is going to want to make chubby (at least for stereotypical superheroes) bodies for their characters in CoT. But no matter how many times you subtly imply or state openly that you personally would never go for that option it can't dismiss the simple truth that it's an option that at least SOME people want for CoT. Period.
And the last time I checked that's all it took to get virtually every new costume/body improvement we ever got in CoH made. All it took was the assumption by a Dev, "Gee, I think I'll add X, Y or Z today because maybe SOMEBODY will want to use it". As I mentioned several posts ago if CoH had been forced to submit to a "usage threshold test" for every costume option there would've been a ton of options that would've failed that test. Yet those rarely used options continued to exist and more like them continued to be added to CoH for years. If there was a rule that said MMO Devs could only add new costume options as long as they were sure "most" people were going to use them they probably wouldn't be able to add hardly ANYTHING new because the definition of "most" would've been too restrictive.
Can we finally just accept that people like you don't want chubby character options, people like me do and that someday in some future of CoT they might finally exist despite either of us? Is that too much to ask or are you going to keep tossing this troll-like verbal hand-grenade into the thread every week or two until the game launches? ;)
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
What? I never said people didn't want it. I was replying more on the idea that people think it's something widely wanted. I disagree. I've already said I'm for more options.
But when people say "OH! It's in huge demand!" I think they're wrong.
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