Can you give us a succinct summary of the lore that you're aware of so far? Cause I've been busy! :(

Brand X wrote:

Gabby the Cabbie just gives me the feeling that supers are everywhere. I could be wrong, but after the last, where a super is being used to keep a business warm...I just don't know. Also, it's not like CoH didn't do a bit of this. Some of the NPC heroes had secret identies, but CoH even made it seem like there was a super around every corner.
Then CoH did the stupid, DR Aeon (or who ever it was) invented a way for heroes to develope to powers...like using PISTOLS and GIANT WEAPONS! :p

I see. So what do you propose is the Happy Medium for `Powered's`:
a) Already Have been accepted by the people and are Treated like Saviors/Destroyers?
b) Not Quite accepted by society, or Half of the people in the City, and face ridicule/opposition 1/2 of the time?
c) Not really Accepted and have to Hide their true Identities, and are looked down on by the Police and the Media?

Of course the Cabbie going to be blabbing about things that draws tourist. He might have a deal with that shop to drum up business and he gets a discount!

Frankly I don't care how accepted we are.
Acceptance should come from how we act not how common we are
I would like to hope that among civilized people heroes will be accepted, vigilantes viewed with suspicion and villains rejected.
What bothers me is that being a SUPERhero is supposed to be special,
if there are too many of us, it doesn't feel very special any more.

I realize this is a big problem for an MMO.
you're hoping to have thousands of players, and you want to get creative with the lore
plus players want to be creative too, so most of them will have several characters
(funny how Paladin always disappears, when Last Crusader is around)
That means of course tens of thousands of superheroes.
This is why I tend to ignore the lore, and part of why I prefer to solo

A big part of the problem is crowing us into one city and trying to force a sense of community on us.
and whenever I hear a reference to the superhero community, I can't help but think of the gay community.
It's just not that big a deal anymore.

Every time we see a sign that we're considered normal we loose a part of being super

The only solution is to minimize the acceptance and maximize the wow factor in people's reactions
weather it makes sense or not, Most of the civilians should react to every super encounter as if it's their fist.
If anyone looks at us with a blasé "oh it's one of You again" our feeling is instantly lost
and our costume suddenly feels a little embarrassing.

Hang out spots and costume shops that specifically cater to supers also take a lot away from the specialness
(That's why I like the Idea of NOT having in game locations for shops just windows.
it feels more like we have to go online because there aren't places to get stuff for our special needs.)
Maybe instead of a costume shop you could have a special taylor like E from the Incredibles.

Capes/Masks are like cops ... they're "everywhere" but never around when you need one.

I mean, seriously. We [i]see[/i] police officers in our daily lives, but rarely do we follow them around and watch what they do. We know they're there, but they aren't the only thing that's happening on a daily basis.

A lot of cities like to aim for a police to population ratio of around 1 officer per 1000 citizens. If you figure that City of Titans ought to have a civilian population of around 4 million people, and a typical concurrent users population of around 4000 Players, then the number of Capes/Masks online and playing at any one time ought to be somewhere in the vicinity of how many police officers there are working for the city. It's a big number in absolute terms (ie. "they're everywhere, I tell you!") but relative to the size of the city population itself it's not overwhelming in terms of demographics.

I also tend to lean to the thought that the citizens of Titan City will be fairly used to seeing Superheroes running around as a common thing. If there are going to be literally thousands of heroes running around protecting the city, it shouldn't be too big of a surprise for an everyday citizen to see one. Also people tend to get used to things fairly quickly and accept it as the norm.

Speak for yourself, but if I have super powers..........I'm gonna feel pretty damn special!!!

You may have said that, but the things you are saying is implying it for everybody. You are trying to imply that if everybody has powers and it's common then nobody can feel special in regards to having powers since it's an everyday common thing. You have to remember, there is one thing that separates all the Superheroes from the common everyday man. They have super powers! They can do things normal people can't.

I don't PvP.

Redlynne wrote:

Capes/Masks are like cops ... they're "everywhere" but never around when you need one.
I mean, seriously. We see police officers in our daily lives, but rarely do we follow them around and watch what they do. We know they're there, but they aren't the only thing that's happening on a daily basis.
A lot of cities like to aim for a police to population ratio of around 1 officer per 1000 citizens. If you figure that City of Titans ought to have a civilian population of around 4 million people, and a typical concurrent users population of around 4000 Players, then the number of Capes/Masks online and playing at any one time ought to be somewhere in the vicinity of how many police officers there are working for the city. It's a big number in absolute terms (ie. "they're everywhere, I tell you!") but relative to the size of the city population itself it's not overwhelming in terms of demographics.

Let's use a real world stat for you:

New York City has a population of 8.4 million people.

The New York Police Department has approximately 34,500 officers.

That is roughly 1 officer for every 250 people.

So, using those figures of 4000 supers for a population of 4 million, there would be 4 police officers for every super, be they hero, villain or other.

The idea is that Titan City has a heavier density of super powered beings than normal due to local laws, regulations, and programs encouraging those with abilities or skills to relocate. There are a few reasons why, but that is the general idea. And that is one of the big things tourists come for, the chance to see an actual super-powered person, so Gabbie points them out readily as to pander to his audience. I find the same thing when I go to New York, every cab driver worth their meddle points out the museums and theatres.

I'm just saying numbers may be skewed as a result of the increased crime rate, there will be increased police to compensate. Numbers may be off is all.

Also TMP, I am not your enemy. There have been some ideas and some times that I have stood beside you and supported you. I support your right to be able to solo if you so desire, even though I am of the team up mentality myself. I believe I even showed that by staunchly trying to defend the right for a single individual being able to start a TF or Raid instead of making it an X requirement to do so. Just because I do not agree with all of your ideas and sometimes try to prove them wrong does not mean I am an enemy. My views just differ from yours and I'm trying to make sure that all the ideas are met with the most fairness possible for as many people involved in playing the game. I don't want to see things skew too far one way or the other. I hope to try to put my input in in such a way that it balances out for the most people playing the game to enjoy the game. I have played Devil's Advocate a few times, even when it went against my opinions.

Redlynne wrote:

My point was, if you have thousands of Capes/Masks running around a city, they become "common" sights much like seeing a police car is in ordinary cities. Something you don't see all the time, but it's there if you look.
And complaining that the Gabby Cabby is pointing out things that might be of interest to someone who isn't native/local? That's like complaining that cab drivers in Hollywood keep pointing out all the movie making stuff and celebrities as they drive you around town if you're not native/local. It's pure tour guide service stuff.
C'mon people, get it together.

You might be right.
I hope you are.

Brand X wrote:

I don't know. Sounds like they're trying to make it seem over populated with superpowers. Something I think CO does way to much of and CoH did just as much as. Face it, superpowers are to common of a sight when they can now do fashion shows for them.
If you go to far with it with the lore players will take it farther. So now is the time to make it clear.

I kinda like what RottenLuck brought up with certain neighborhoods shifting opinions on Supered's, depending on the property damage done there, or others transgressions from previous mishaps. Depending on which Neighborhood you choose to start your Career in, after you're done with Rolling a new toon, the NPC (Lore) might Treat you differently, either A), B), or even C). *see my post above* ;)

Of course, if you're aiming to be a Villain, you can set your sight on taking over your 'HOOD. ;D

And on an unrelated topic.
Extra Lore for NPC could be Thrown in when they Defeat you... once you return to face them again in the mission instance.

I really didnt get why CoH didnt have the NPC's say stuff to taunt a defeated player, like you could set in Architect Entertainment missions.

ex: "HEH.. Back for More?! >:)"

Oh wait. AE only let you set the NPC text when you got defeated, not if you Rez or come back from the Hospital to face them once again. :)

If only there was a way to make the Lore BASE the FILLING, and the Thematic Lore stuff.. A), B), or C) the Topping, or the Sponge of the Cake. Layered in, when Appropriate. :)

Have your Cake and Eat it too! ;D

ex of Lore BASE as the Filling:
"You will have to defeat 200 Clockworks."

if you picked a neighborhood thats Supers friendly, followed by:
"And make sure to bring some of your Super Friends along too. You'll need them!"

if you picked a neighborhood thats Not Supers friendly, followed by:
"Too bad you dont really have many Super Friends, they might have come in handy!"

etc...

and of course, if you picked a neighborhood thats Not Supers Friendly, if you're in your Super Outfit and linger around a pedestrian, they WILL throw things at you... rocks, eggs, keys, or wallets. ;)

If you're a villain (maybe even a hero), and try to approach a pedestrian NPC, they will Run! Of course you cant hurt them, but if you're really a bully, you can chase them, and they will keep running away. ;)

Gabby is meant to be a taster of the world, not the definition of it. He is "flavor". A colorful character in a world with people that wear colorful capes. Of course he will exaggerate. He may even downplay stuff. He's like the classic NYC-style hack with a heart of gold of big screen and television. Of course he embellishes a bit. He is not the purveyor of Lore. He is a part of it, but (perhaps unfortunately) a small part. Just sit back and enjoy the ride and company.

if the clouds were programmed by people I would expect them to do exactly that people tell them to.

Look, my point is that you're not going to get the game to do exactly what you want it to do, no matter how many times you keep typing it or attacking it with a wall of text

There are parts of the game where you are going to have to do the work inside your own mind because it's a role playing game

Look I'm just doing the same thing as you
posting my opinion and arguing to defend it
Attack my position if you think I'm wrong
but don't act like I'm doing something wrong by posting.

and besides walls of text are the only weapons we have
until we can pvp on each other.

Oh man that sounds awful.
I'm definitely NOT going to pvp on anyone.
even if they're on fire.

it is a given superpowered folks have been around for a good while in the world of CoT. as such, I would assume that the world itself would view and portray them something along the lines of bigname actors/actresses. you know what I mean, a buncha trash magazines following their every move...making up completely sensational stories "Doctor Tyche, Deadbeat Dad! *insert picture of Doctor Tyche making the Home Alone face after kid puts on aftershave* "...things of that ilk.

now that superpowered folks are "common" the question then comes to mind...why is Titan City overflowing with them? why is the population density of supers higher here than, say, Chicago or LA or Miami? there should be a reason why and when this is determined it may help alleviate, at least a lil bit, the feeling of supers being "everywhere" on the part of the players.

Brand X wrote:

whiteperegrine wrote:
it is a given superpowered folks have been around for a good while in the world of CoT. as such, I would assume that the world itself would view and portray them something along the lines of bigname actors/actresses. you know what I mean, a buncha trash magazines following their every move...making up completely sensational stories "Doctor Tyche, Deadbeat Dad! *insert picture of Doctor Tyche making the Home Alone face after kid puts on aftershave* "...things of that ilk.
now that superpowered folks are "common" the question then comes to mind...why is Titan City overflowing with them? why is the population density of supers higher here than, say, Chicago or LA or Miami? there should be a reason why and when this is determined it may help alleviate, at least a lil bit, the feeling of supers being "everywhere" on the part of the players.

They've been around awhile in the case of Marvel and DC and such a case isn't there. :p

how do you mean? regarding the trash magazines and such? oh, I bet they are, hell, the Daily Bugle trashes spidey practically everyday and that a major newspaper much less a rag magazine. tv and radio would follow suit...face it, humans 'in mass' love trash...especially when said trash is people who are "perceived" to be better than your average joe. if this wasn't the case, then magazines like People, US (and those two are some of the "cleaner" trash magazines) and all the others would have gone belly up years ago...

And I can think of a way to control clouds that's 20% cooler than that.....

Doctor Tyche wrote:

ok...THAT made me spit coffee... LMAO!

Brand X wrote:

Oh! And lets not go with CoT has the most uncorrupt police force! CoH did that :p

Wasn't the Rouge Isles Police Department really corrupt? I recall seeing them beating homeless people on the street in the first villain zone.

Although considering that the Rouge Isles made Detroit/Gotham City look like a cakewalk because of the tremendous amount of gangs and crazies running around.....

Warcabbit wrote:

# 1: Days with Gabbie are always somewhat exceptional. He shows up to take people where they need to go. If you're destined to be somewhere, it's a weird day.

Gabby seems to be like the Coachman in Steven Brust's [i]Brokedown Palace[/i] and [i]The Viscount of Adrilankha[/i]. Full of stories because he helps people get to where they need to go to get on with their stories. ^_^

This reminds me of another post. What we need is a gage of how much is too much.

I think we all agree we can't control how many Players we see running around. We can also agree that when it comes to seeing other player characters we can forgive having to many around. Mainly because it means we are doing things right!

Now the Titan City Police Department. Lets work on them. I don't want to see Psi-cops, or the army or Awakened police officers. A few Super powered Officers like our werewolf/animorph Swat captain is okay, but a whole department of super cops? To much. Now how about the Power armored Cops how many of them is realistic? How many Cops would be sporting Zappers (Face it if such tech was possible cops would have them.)

New York was brought up. So lets really think about how many Supers are there in one universe. Lets look at Marvel. Spiderman and his Rogue Gallery, Daredevil and his Rogues, The Avengers (we don't need to include Rogues here they often go to other locations to fight.) The Fantastic Four, Dr Strange... Really that's off the top of my head and the list is larger if you count second string and even third string heroes and villains. What makes the comics seem it the heroes vs the world is that it's just focused on that Heroes or villain story. Heck that don't count those who may have powers and don't become Heroes or Villains.

Darth Fez wrote:

The setting is not a problem. If there is a problem, it's with when and how people are willing to apply their suspension of disbelief. People who are willing to sideline, paper over, or outright ignore some things will charge the barricades over others. A classic fantasy example is the player who won't say a word about magic, dragons, and fighting orcs or trolls. But woe unto you if you portray your character wielding his sword incorrectly.

Aye, that's the bit I don't understand. How can it be easy to ignore the presence of thousands of super-powered PCs and probably a greater number of super-powered enemies, and yet a handful of mildly-super-powered NPCs breaks all suspension of disbelief?

For me, Warcabbit's post above tells me MWM is creating the kind of city in which I will be happy to play.

As far as Capes/Masks among the police, there's always the example of [b][url=http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Blue_Steel#Blue_Steel_Meme]Blue Steel[/url][/b] to live up to.

Taking inspiration from the [url=http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Praetorian_Police_Costume_Set#Preselected_Costumes]Praetorian Police Department[/url] for costuming officers tasked with taking on Capes/Masks would seem to be a wise choice. I mean, seriously, you'd want to be armored up like a linebacker to take THOSE types of people on!

Also wouldn't mind having "tech" based man-sized [url=http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Powered_Armor_Cops]Power Armor Cops[/url] where the people inside can be "normals" rather than supers.

Brand X wrote:

Not so sure the police force would even have the high tech weapons/mechs. If theydid it would like be one cop. These things aren't cheap and city government has never been known to be willing to throw money around. :p

That depends. Since this super-powered activity is focused in one city, Federal support might be available. And you'd bet the FBI (and DoD and others) is going to be interested in how to contain super-powered threats, and would see Titan City as a testing ground.

Brand X wrote:

And of course villain supers out number the hero supers. For me that just makes sense. They're people who got a sense of power and they did what people do...started bullying those without to make themselves feel better/important.

Yep. All the more reason that the citizens will be howling that Something Must Be Done and we shouldn't leave it to volunteer supers, because they might not be around when you really need them...

At the same time the Marvel Universe does have a Whole city full of super beings. The Inhumans a fair size city could be in the 500,000+ range. Even if they aren't listed because they live in one city isolated by choice from the rest of the world instead of saving the world and fighting crime.

We also got told that Titan City is the most populated of supers of any known city in the world. A combo of super accepting laws and welcoming nature. Other parts of the CoT world could be very anti-super and heck could even have a form of Witch Hunters seeking out supers.

My point in bring up the Inhumans is that the Super Powered People don't always have to be the focus of the story. There is also the upcoming Inhuman Movie, and they have had their own comics too.

One plan would be to run from me.

You saw this, right?
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/ben-stiller-owen-wilson-hit-catwalk-zoolander-29529781

Brand X wrote:

RottenLuck wrote:
At the same time the Marvel Universe does have a Whole city full of super beings. The Inhumans a fair size city could be in the 500,000+ range. Even if they aren't listed because they live in one city isolated by choice from the rest of the world instead of saving the world and fighting crime.

They also have atlantis which would house those considered super compared to normal humans.

That is true at the same time I would consider Atlanteans another race like the Skrull and the Kree. The difference between them and the Inhumans is the Atlanteans all have the same powers and base abilities same true for Kendor they all count as Kryptonians but are miniaturized. Then again even in those cities there were Good vs Evil stories.

Someone used the quote from the Incredibles Syndrome. "Everyone can be super! And when everyone's super...no one will be.." but that not true. In the case of the Inhumans they all have powers but each are different and each are on a different scale. So you will have the most powerful either helping to protect the weaker, or trying to dominate with power those who are weaker.

Same would be with Titan City. It was even true for us in City of Heroes, how many times did a high level 50 go and hand out inf or items to newbies? How many times did a high level tag along a group going into the sewer system? Or help transport in the Hollows. I even think there was a contest going on who could be the most helpful when a question was asked I seen debates come up in chat that started on someone asking for help on how to enhance their powers. we have so many such stories of Players with high powers helping those who are starting off.

Even in a city of Heroes, there will still be Heroes doing what good. As well as Villains doing what they want.

Greyhawk wrote:

If you want to be the only superhero in town then you'll have to play a standalone RPG (if you can find one).
I stopped reading comics when I was about fourteen. I always preferred novels to comics anyway, and it was right about then I realized that if Spiderman could become a superhero just from a spider bite (albeit, a radioactive one) then anyone could, but no one had.
If there are superheroes in a world then there are going to be many of them. Some of them will be very powerful, others less so. It seems frightfully unrealistic to me to even attempt to create a MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER world of superheroes and then pretend having superpowers is something unique and rare, making the heroes an elite class unto themselves. It's downright hypocritical, in my view, to pretend those tens of thousands of other people playing the game do not exist.
But then, as I've stated repeatedly, I abhor all forms of elitism.
No. You're not special. You're not some kind of god. Sorry. If you want to play a god then play a single-player game so you can be the only genuine sentient in the world.
I like the idea of superheroes being commonplace. The more commonplace the better. My character will still be unique. My character will stand apart from the crowd because it will be MY character and will reflect MY choices. Like a snowflake in a blizzard, one amongst many and still unique unto itself.
I am what makes my character unique, not a paragraph of game lore in the tutorial.

:P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P

All fantasies are elitists.
We all picture ourselves doing things no one else can.
Or being the best at whatever it is we're doing.
And even when we encounter someone more powerful
We're the only one who can beat him.

I solo because that's what being a superhero is really about!
Even team books feature a lot of characters who also solo, in their own titles.
And those are usually the core members of the team

Captain America
Thor
Iron-Man
Superman
Batman
Wonder Woman
Wolverine
The Thing
The Human Torch
Doctor Strange
The Silver Surfer
The Hulk

All solo characters with very popular titles
who formed the core of their teams

But even more than the desire act out our fantasy in a game
there's the fact that we want the game to have the feel of the genre
and making heroes too commonplace will ruin it.