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Hell or Heaven powers?

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desviper
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There're very obvious

There're very obvious swastikas in Cod:WaW and I think Wolfenstein as well. But I suppose they could've had a "worldwide edition" http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=664502416

"A delayed game is eventually good, but a rushed game is forever bad"

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I really didn't intend to

I really didn't intend to derail a discussion like this.

I just remember reading that while the law is the same they have just relaxed enforcement of it and wanted confirmation if my memory is correct from someone who lives there.

I wanted to know because the 'insult/offense' are oft times politically/financially motivated when discussing inclusion of certain imagery. We have all heard new reports about how some government official wore the wrong colored shirt and insulted that nation. Well, it turns out most of the time no one in that country really gave a crap. It many cases its just a minor faux pas being sensationalized for gain.

When it comes to the inclusion of 'offensive' imagery as part of a character costume then the first stop in deciding to include it should be the legality of it. The second stop should be if it is likely to be used against the game.

As an example, Nazi propaganda is not exactly illegal, but you can be sure that there will be people who will use those symbols of hate inappropriately. After that it could easily be manipulated into cause celebre that social activist groups use as a rallying point.
This is supposed to be a fun game about super guys and gals so why poke the political bear with specific real world symbols that can easily be replaced with less controversial ones?

Cobalt Azurean
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Brainbot wrote:
Brainbot wrote:

I really didn't intend to derail a discussion like this.

I did!

/derail_on

Do they refer to spelling/grammar nazis in Germany as 'swasticklers'?

/derail_off

Brand X
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Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:

Brand X wrote:
I'm not saying they should put in nazi symbols. :p However, CoH still had nazi character's even if they weren't nazi's. We could easily still have crusaders, which as it's over 700 years old history, all should be fine.
Also, the argument, that "It may hurt people" is lost from the beginning, because I promise you, the game will still have magic and demons and we all know that upsets LOTS of people. It's like no one here remembers the hurt feelings of many people over Harry Potter :p
That's why Nos's comments are dumb. He's totally willing to say ignore something that can hurt a few CERTAIN people. While totally ignoring others.
If crusaders will upset a couple Muslims (which was his argument), which is not a minority, as Islam is the second most popular religion in the world. He obviously meant, "It just offends someone." While magic we totally know offends people not just of christian backgrounds (basically many religious types who can't accept some fiction :p)
Not to mention, we're likely to have ghosts in the game right? Doesn't that kick the game right out of China, due to being considered offensive/against the law.
The point being, lots of picking and choosing seems to be going on :p
Sure it's always going to be "hit-or-miss" when it comes to what should or shouldn't be depicted in a game like this. And like you said no matter what the Devs do they're still likely going to offend someone somehow anyway. But this isn't the type of thing where if the Devs can't prevent/avoid everything with 100% certainty they should just do nothing. No anti-virus software product is 100% bulletproof but that doesn't mean we don't still use them for the majority of good that they can do.
Like it or not we live in a world where we have to accept a certain degree of "law and order" to function collectively in groups and MMOs are no exception to that. There's always going to be a fine line between allowing players the freedom to do whatever they want versus having reasonable safeguards that prevent foreseeable/predictable trouble areas.
It really continues to amaze me that people think that a game like this could function without any pre-planning for obvious questionable player content. Some people have suggested, "Just let the in-game GMs police everything". That might be fine if we were guaranteed to have like maybe 100 GMs per server who could cover every situation 24/7. But we all know that's not going to be the case in CoT - they simply will not have the manpower to do this adequately. Other people ask, "Well who's to judge what's OK to be in this game or not?" I'm perfectly willing to let the Devs decide that and if that means they think we'd be better off without X, Y or Z even being possible in the game (via user generated content) then that's the law of the land.
If you end up disagreeing with MWM's decisions on these things you could either play another game or just wait until they allow us to have private servers and set up your own little world to have whatever you want in it.

Which is why I get it for the Nazi symbol :p

The over 700 Crusades however. Sorry. If it's going to be used an excuse not to use, because some of the crusades were land grabs that people don't look back on fondly. Then, why not avoid magic, which witches may not look back fondly on, much more recently? :p

Seriously. The argument against crusade use was weak. :p

Mind you, I'd only want to use it in this setting in something akin to Cimeroa (sp?) from CoH.

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Brand X wrote:
Brand X wrote:

Mind you, I'd only want to use it in this setting in something akin to Cimeroa (sp?) from CoH.

Cimerora. And man, talk about an under-utilized zone. I really, really wish they had done more with it, but I understand that they were limited in the context of the story they were telling. It definitely had it's own look and feel that was different from all the others. At least they touched back on it later on in the Incarnate content, which was nice to see.

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Loved Cimerora too. Used it

Loved Cimerora too. Used it in the origin of my main main :).

FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)

Brand X
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Cobalt Azurean wrote:
Cobalt Azurean wrote:

Brand X wrote:
Mind you, I'd only want to use it in this setting in something akin to Cimeroa (sp?) from CoH.
Cimerora. And man, talk about an under-utilized zone. I really, really wish they had done more with it, but I understand that they were limited in the context of the story they were telling. It definitely had it's own look and feel that was different from all the others. At least they touched back on it later on in the Incarnate content, which was nice to see.

Not sure I agree that it needed more, but that may be because I enjoyed it as it was.

Croatoa had to be my favorite though. Even if my main was a city girl who was a DoD science project to be a living weapon :p

Cobalt Azurean
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Brand X wrote:
Brand X wrote:

Cobalt Azurean wrote:
Brand X wrote:
Mind you, I'd only want to use it in this setting in something akin to Cimeroa (sp?) from CoH.
Cimerora. And man, talk about an under-utilized zone. I really, really wish they had done more with it, but I understand that they were limited in the context of the story they were telling. It definitely had it's own look and feel that was different from all the others. At least they touched back on it later on in the Incarnate content, which was nice to see.
Not sure I agree that it needed more, but that may be because I enjoyed it as it was.
Croatoa had to be my favorite though. Even if my main was a city girl who was a DoD science project to be a living weapon :p

Fair enough. And agreed on Croatoa (a favorite, not my ultimate favorite, which was probably The Shadow Shard). Much like my sentiments about Cimerora, I felt the same first time zoning into Salamanca. I've always been a fan of the various world mythologies, so seeing some of them in action was a real delight.

Wolfgang8565
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How the heck do you guys

How the heck do you guys remember these story lines and names of places! The game has been down for 5 years!
XD

Lin Chiao Feng
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Cobalt Azurean wrote:
Cobalt Azurean wrote:

Do they refer to spelling/grammar nazis in Germany as 'swasticklers'?

No way. Not nearly enough letters to be a proper German noun.

Has anyone seen my mind? It was right here...

Interdictor
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Wolfgang8565 wrote:
Wolfgang8565 wrote:

How the heck do you guys remember these story lines and names of places! The game has been down for 5 years!
XD

Well, when you play a game for (at least in my case) 8 years or so, you tend to memorize a lot of stuff about it. Plus Paragon Wiki is still up to refresh the memory when needed ;^p

Empyrean
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Interdictor wrote:
Interdictor wrote:

Wolfgang8565 wrote:
How the heck do you guys remember these story lines and names of places! The game has been down for 5 years!
XD
Well, when you play a game for (at least in my case) 8 years or so, you tend to memorize a lot of stuff about it. Plus Paragon Wiki is still up to refresh the memory when needed ;^p

Yeah, over 8 years too. Even though I've never used Paragon Chat, if I logged in right now, I'd know my way around every single map.

FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)

Brand X
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Some things slip. :p I

Some things slip. :p I remembered Croatoa, but forgot it was Salamenca for instance :p

Cobalt Azurean
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Brand X wrote:
Brand X wrote:

Some things slip. :p I remembered Croatoa, but forgot it was Salamanca for instance :p

Fixed that for you.

Brand X
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See :p

See :p

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Hector or Tuco?

Hector or Tuco?

Spurn all ye kindle.

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Remember guys, being

If I'm not mistaken, the CoT devs were discussing power elements and mentioned both burning and supernatural damage types. With the way augments are supposed to work, it may be possible to deal half burning and half supernatural, for example, in order to get holy fire or hellfire. Heck, any damage type mixed with the supernatural damage marker could result in a Heaven/Hell type of power, and I'm sure that coloring special effects can give you a unique spin off of your attacks/elements to make them holy/unholy. Holy fire can be white and gold, hellfire can be blue like burning sulfur, and so on. It's possible that halo and wing-like effects could be an option for powers, which can stand in for angelic and demonic undertones.

All in all, I'd have to say that if nothing else, we should have no problems jury-rigging a Heaven/Hell powerset with what we'll be provided with. I hope that helps!

<==========)===O|TtDd|O===(==========>
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Empyrean
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TTheDDoctor wrote:
TTheDDoctor wrote:

All in all, I'd have to say that if nothing else, we should have no problems jury-rigging a Heaven/Hell powerset with what we'll be provided with. I hope that helps!

But then, that's the entire point now, innit?

The entire game is designed form first to last, from ground up, quite intentionally, so that you can "jury rig" anything you want. Which means it's not "jury rigging" at all.

It's Working As Intended.

FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)

TTheDDoctor
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Empyrean wrote:
Empyrean wrote:

TTheDDoctor wrote:
All in all, I'd have to say that if nothing else, we should have no problems jury-rigging a Heaven/Hell powerset with what we'll be provided with. I hope that helps!
But then, that's the entire point now, innit?
The entire game is designed form first to last, from ground up, quite intentionally, so that you can "jury rig" anything you want. Which means it's not "jury rigging" at all.
It's Working As Intended.

A fair point. In that case then, is not the whole point of this thread just hoping that the game will work as intended and include features that the devs have long confirmed will be in the game? Honestly, I daresay all this talk about power ideas is starting to get awfully redundant...

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I'm not certain if the

I'm not certain if the original poster wasn't just a 'unicorn' trying to stir up trouble, however, yes, it does seem that the discussion itself has resolved that CoT can do what we want, without trying to define what heaven or hell or limbo, or whatever else, actually 'is'.

Be Well!
Fireheart

Lin Chiao Feng
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I remember where the Paragon

I remember where the Paragon Dance Party entrance was in Steel Canyon. Which wasn't where the badge they added later said it was.

Has anyone seen my mind? It was right here...

whiteperegrine
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given the powers are "generic

given the powers are "generic" it would be up to the individuals background to describe where said power originates from...whether it be heaven/hell, mutant, altered human, weapons, hi-tech, etc...

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