This came up elsewhere. I have my doubts about it but I don't believe the discussion will be harmful to the game or our community.
My own thoughts on this is to allow appropriate in-game locations to respond to user selection by bring up some kind of outside ordering system. Grubhub might work as that company is location-aware. I'm not sure how well that would work for non-U.S. locations.
Product placement I'm not so sure about. The experience City Of Heroes had with Nike didn't go well. It might have been badly planned and executed so it's not out of the question. The thing is that players come into games to escape the real world and some of its commercialization. Some kind of voluntary interaction that provides a service like I describe above is one thing, but forcing people to deal with such is quite another.
Edit: I've gotten so used to correcting City of Heroes to City of Titans that I'm doing it when the first name is appropriate!
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[color=#FF0000]Senior Developer/Project Manager/Co-Founder... and then some.[/color]
Games have tried this before. Everquest 2 famously had /pizza to order pizza hut, anarchy online and the original planetside had billboard advertisements in game.
It generally ends up feeling really cheap and as you mentioned it dumps all over the ability to use the game as an escape from reality.
It works a little better if the product placement is a bit more subtle and optional, like having car companies pay to have their cars added to a racing game as totally optional free content.
Personally I would not be excited to play city of nikepizzahutmcdonaldsdisneyapple.
Let me pay for the actual game and I am happy to do so. At the very least limit advertising to free to play accounts.
Nobody likes obtrusive spam, nobody wants to have their immersion or balance thrown out the window because a corporate donor wants their stuff to get all the attention.
Fixed that for you.
I don't mind product-placement as I can see it as a way for MWM to earn some scratch, and to some degree it could enhance the sense of realism of the game as it would be reflective of tasteful product placement in real life, with billboards and the like. I also don't mind as long as it doesn't interfere with the game's performance and/or the performance of my computer/connection. I further don't mind if working/living behind a sturdy VPN doesn't cause problems for ads or location-aware functions (as mentioned above).
I feel like a few food-based companies (as you mentioned, Grubhub) could have potential. So I am in agreement with you there, for the most part. I do suspect the margin of profit for CoT would likely be nominal though, as unless there were some sort of perk for going through the game to order, I can imagine many avoiding it and opting to go the (as stated in another thread) Alt-tab route. Still, an interesting idea for sure!
I also agree that the real-world advertisement in-game could possibly not go so well... but, as an alternative, I personally would not be opposed to seeing CoT / MWM merchandise advertised. I think it would also be cool to see different NPCs walking around with some of the gear (like shirts, hats, or totes). Maybe as an incentive for making the purchase through the game, a player would gain access to that item for their character(s?) as well! Maybe through like a code or something? There are options there. Seeing as this is a post-launch idea, it seems just as likely to happen I think anyway.
This! [size=18]Is![/size] [size=20][b]TITAN CITY![/b][/size]
I think there is a way product placement could be done to be unobtrusive and optional but fun and useful. First, DONT go to the big boys on the block for advertising. For example, don't go to Nike try Skechers or Puma instead. Fanta or Sparkle instead of Coke. Find a company who is looking for alternate ways to increase their revenue. Second do something useful with the advertising.A billboard is cool and all but what if with Fanta you placed vending machines in random buildings or areas and clicking on them gives you the option to send a coupon to your email for like 50 cents off a 2 liter.
This gives you and the advertiser a way to track the usefulness of the ad and gives players something as well. I believe at one point that a mall was being constructed for somewhere in CoT. You could make some of the storefronts able to be clicked on and give coupons as well. Just an idea on a way to make advertising and fun and useful.
[CENTER][URL=http://www.nodiatis.com/personality.htm][IMG]http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/2.jpg[/IMG][/URL][/CENTER]
I'd rather it be an example of a McDonalds ad on a billboard rather than a mission where I save Ronald McDonald. Seeing a McDonalds ad on a billboard works to connect the world to ours and makes it feel like an alternate dimension, while a mission where I save Ronald McDonald, feels like I'm playing a bad kids game made by the company.
not my video just one I lke ===> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6-SdIN0hsM
[CENTER][URL=http://www.nodiatis.com/personality.htm][IMG]http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/24.jpg[/IMG][/URL][/CENTER]
But what if you earn a red clown wig as a reward?
I think they do a lot of cross promotions and such in Japanese MMOs. I don't know for sure though, I've only seen some anime that have referenced/parodied such things.
"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."
Products like gaming peripherals (mice, keyboards, mousepads, etc.) would be a good market. And rather than using character location being the metric as was done with the CoH Nike ads, the billboards could just use a keyword to get a special CoT discount.
I'm also sure that Pizza Hut and other (inter)national sized delivery companies, such as Amazon and even Walmart now, might not be a bad market either.
Another means of product placement would be to allow professional Youtube hosts a chance to make their own CoT commecials that can air on various in-game television screens. The directive being to try to make them as immersive as possible while still advertising their sites. Perhaps actual videos could be a problem with bandwidth and client-side processing power, but a gif with an associated sound file might be a more useful option.
Finally, 3D character printers like [url=https://www.heroforge.com/]Hero Forge[/url] would be a hugely missed opportunity. Yes I know that we can't send our character files to them and expect them to print it from that. But if the folks at Hero Forge were given the costume files on a contractual basis by MWM beforehand, they would be able to make their own 3D printable versions of the characters we create. And since it would be a service contracted out to them, it would be up to them to determine their own pricing strategy. It has already been mentioned by several people that they would pay quite handsomely for a 3D model of their CoT characters. Therefore, I would think that Hero Forge would also be a good candidate for in-game advertising.
[hr]I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
I really don't want to see any of the advertising I am already bombarded with in real life - in game.
Now fictional advertisements is a different story. I do want to see billboards, posters, flyers (on the ground) in random spots in game but it would be for made up products. Seeing an advertisement for McDonalds would totally take me out of the game.
An example for fictional ads would be a huge billboard for an energy drink with a speedy superhero zooming in holding a can of the stuff.
"Zoom your way to a speedy day! Dr.Zoom Energy Drinks! Available at your local retailer. "
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[color=#FF0000]Graphic Designer[/color]
Seeing ads wouldn't bother me.
Titan city is a modern city after all. I could live with billboards and a few storefronts. It would not ruin my immersion.
I could see a Dunkin Donuts with a dozen cop cars parked there...and maybe some Rooks breaking into the cars.
I doubt it would be worth the revenue because I would just ignore the ads and play the game.
[img]https://s15.postimg.cc/z9bk1znkb/Black_Falcon_Sig_in_Progess.jpg[/img]
I personally think, as others have said, it could be an opportunity to both enhance verisimilitude and make money for the game. On the other hand, my wife flies into a rage at the slightest hint of unsolicited advertising, which baffles me. So, attitudes vary widely.
FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)
Introduce her to this thread then. Who knows? She might come up with something interesting.
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[color=#FF0000]Senior Developer/Project Manager/Co-Founder... and then some.[/color]
Sell it as a cash shop item?
not my video just one I lke ===> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6-SdIN0hsM
[CENTER][URL=http://www.nodiatis.com/personality.htm][IMG]http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/24.jpg[/IMG][/URL][/CENTER]
Ads like that work more on a subconscious level. They still make you feel like dunkin' donuts if you're hungry while playing the game, so they still would work.
not my video just one I lke ===> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6-SdIN0hsM
[CENTER][URL=http://www.nodiatis.com/personality.htm][IMG]http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/24.jpg[/IMG][/URL][/CENTER]
Hmmm. We are making fictitious chains. Maybe we can "sell" those to real companies. Or allow the real ones make their own, immersive, store fronts. Not sure where to go from there but it might have possibilities.
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[color=#FF0000]Senior Developer/Project Manager/Co-Founder... and then some.[/color]
Your Mission - if you should choose to accept it - Rescue the Pizza Guy/Girl to unlock the secret Ordering App... Except, now I've got to hunt down the imperiled delivery person every time I'm hungry...
Be Well!
Fireheart
OK. I have an EVIL thought.
How about ads with a cash shop fee to avoid them?
I feel despicable just for tossing that idea out...
[img]https://s15.postimg.cc/z9bk1znkb/Black_Falcon_Sig_in_Progess.jpg[/img]
Question for the Devs. Can this really bring in some decent revenue?
[img]https://s15.postimg.cc/z9bk1znkb/Black_Falcon_Sig_in_Progess.jpg[/img]
If you're asking whether it's OK for billboards and the like in-game to display real ads for real products, rather than fake ads for imaginary ones, then I say do it!
Assuming that the added revenue stream goes to furthering game development or to defraying costs, then every little bit is a bonus to the game and its community.
From an RP standpoint, this approach is even better, because the game world will feel that much more real.
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.
Agreed. I'd actually prefer it, to seeing something like Cape Burgers!
*Phoenix Burger will remember this*
Charles Logan
www.cloganart.com
I think if you are trying to sell ad space the first thing you need to provide is a more or less captive audience. In game billboards and fake stores that can be easily ignored are not exactly something that will blow marketing departments skirts up.
If you want to sell ad space then using loading screens and the game launcher will probably be of more interest to potential advertisers. These ads can even be interactive if you are still thinking of something like a food delivery service. Click a button on the screen while loading to bring up a local food delivery option.
IMO this is a best of both worlds situation. It does not intrude on the in game experience of players and you can provide the desired captive audience that companies desire for their marketing.
Now if what you are thinking of is capitalizing on web traffic based ads for additional revenue then it become very easy to sell 'ad removal' to paying customers.
For the love of all that’s holy I hope they do not have a bunch of loading screens with ads for rl consumables. I play games to get break from reality... especially the onslaught of advertisements we have these days. Yes even during the loading. Maybe I’m alone on this one I don’t know...
I don’t mind some of these ideas but please MWM don’t go the way of the unavoidable ad...
"A sad spectacle. If they be inhabited, what a scope for misery and folly. If they be not inhabited, what a waste of space." ~ Thomas Carlyle
If it's avoidable then no one is going to pay them for ad space.
They will if 1) there’s an audience and 2) it’s relatively cheap to them.
Also, research has shown that traditional “banner ads” don’t work well. People are conditioned to ignore them. And they’re counter-productive; if you’re annoying potential customers you’re hardly going to draw people in.
https://marketinginsidergroup.com/content-marketing/banners-99-problems/
Something a little more subtle, something that’s not going to irritate people, and something that works on a bit more subconscious of a level may appeal to advertisers. And again, you don’t have to charge a ton of money. If you’re just swapping out one SVG file of a product logo for another, to be referenced in dozens of places, how much work will that require? Even selling that “ad space” at a huge bargain gives a good ROI for MWM.
It ends up being product placement, and that is a popular and time-tested advertising method that companies won’t necessarily scoff at if the game is successful.
Go into the in-game 'Atomic Noodle' shopfront and click the ordering screen, which launches your (in-game?) browser to the RL place of your choice, so you can place your order. Or, perhaps this function is available from your character's 'PDA'?
Be Well!
Fireheart
This isn't a banner ad.
This is interstitial splash screen advertising.
CoT will be a cross between a Freemium and F2P model. Interstitial advertising proves to be the perfect combination of profitability and unobtrusiveness for that gaming model. It generates roughly 30% of the games total income. Alternately product placement in games generates a whopping 3%. Additionally splash screen ads drive the subscription sales up as people who want to avoid ads pay to avoid them.
https://www.forbes.com/search/?q=video%20game#2dbce092279f
Application of the ads is not the labor intensive part of IGAs. It's the tracking analytics that usually accompany traffic based ads.
Product placement is notoriously difficult to track properly and tends to require a much higher labor investment in order to get more than pennies on the dollar ROI.
If the game proves to be a wild success then providing analytics for ad space revenue will become less of an issue but until that time a company will want to know what it is spending its money on.
On a personal level I would much rather see something like this:
[img=400x400]https://assets.rbl.ms/14747515/980x.jpg[/img]
Over something like this:
[img=400x400]http://shortformvideo.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/progress_bar_percentage2.png[/img]
I have no problem with passive, background advertising in the game. As others have said, that could actually make the city seem more realistic, since any real-life city would have billboards etc. I remember when I saw a poster for a rl Vin Diesel film in Atlas Park once -- it just seemed to fit. Though I hope we'll still see fictional ads as well.
What I would not want to see is any sort of interactive advertising, whether links to ordering or content that is product-based (e.g. the 'rescue Ronald McDonald' idea). That would be far too invasive for me.
Spurn all ye kindle.
Bottom line: [u]We are on a shoestring budget here.[/u] I support anything that can help COT stay alive.
No one is talking about malware here. It sounds more like Product placement. I can live with that.
Look at Brainbot's post above me. I can live with a loading screen like that.
[img]https://s15.postimg.cc/z9bk1znkb/Black_Falcon_Sig_in_Progess.jpg[/img]
Agreed whit that here.
The game has to have an audience before monetizing it is going to mean much.
If you can bring in an audience you are going to have people happy to pay for the game.
If your game is struggling to do that it isn't because of ads or lack thereof.
Additional crowdfunding is an option (even expected) before launch, and a combination of subscription and in game purchases are further ways to fund development post launch.
Investing in marketing and PR once you have a decent game to show off will net you a significant return on investment.
Star citizen has had almost the exact same development timeframe and crowd funding style as MWM. I have never heard of them putting DRINK COKE on the side of their spaceships. It would only hurt their image, possibly resulting in a net loss of revenue.
I doubt we will be seeing Aether Pirates promoting products....More likely we might see Coke/Pepsi machines in places where they might fit normally.
and IF we do have the machines I want an emote to buy and enjoy a cool, refreshing Pepsi!
[img]https://s15.postimg.cc/z9bk1znkb/Black_Falcon_Sig_in_Progess.jpg[/img]
Finally we'll have the return of Pepsi Man
[img]https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/deathbattlefanon/images/1/1a/Pepsi_Man.gif/revision/latest?cb=20160406090802[/img]
"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."
I have no clue. In-game marketing has been a hit-or-miss affair for most companies; mostly miss. If there is going to be any such it needs to be part of the fun of the game and not just a money ploy. That's why I went with the purchasing thing connected to vendors idea. People expect stores and vendors and they aren't "In your face". Just trying to see how to leverage an existing asset to the enjoyment of our players. If we make a little extra cash on the side that's just a bonus and not a goal.
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[color=#FF0000]Senior Developer/Project Manager/Co-Founder... and then some.[/color]
Actually billboards for real movies and TV shows sounds really viable. I'm doubtful putting anything in the loading screens feels right though. For that I'm partial to what Funcom has done with Conan Exiles. They put artist sketches of places in the game word and random game advice at the bottom; my favorite one is "Don't eat the yellow snow"..
Putting actual name brands on vending machines doesn't seem unreasonable. We can collect anonymized data about "sales" on such easily. I've once suggested using products from vendors and machines to give temporary boosts to players. The idea here is to make doing stuff like this worthwhile and part of the game. I think this idea eventually got tabled. I forget the reason why though.
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[color=#FF0000]Senior Developer/Project Manager/Co-Founder... and then some.[/color]
I really wasn’t picturing an ad like this when you first mentioned it.
Ok if there is a way to enforce all the ads are directly game/genre specific like this example I would be ok with these in place of loading screens.
What I don’t like the idea of is just a product alone no connection to the game even remotely, but ads like this would be ok with me.
The problem is I don’t imagine a lot of advertisers makibg a lot of ads that will fit so well as this one unless they are tracking a significant increase in sales from it. If it does come to pass then I hope I’m wrong cause ads like this are much better than the generic ads I imagine would show up.
"A sad spectacle. If they be inhabited, what a scope for misery and folly. If they be not inhabited, what a waste of space." ~ Thomas Carlyle
I really really want a special emote for these. Purchase and drinking of the product. THAT would make the add cool!
[img]https://s15.postimg.cc/z9bk1znkb/Black_Falcon_Sig_in_Progess.jpg[/img]
Personally, I wouldn't find that enjoyable. To me, it would be even worse than Pay to Win, because it could involve my having to support (even if it's just in role-play) a product I find objectionable, whether it be on moral grounds for the behaviour of the company, or simply because I find the taste of a consumable disgusting irl. At least with a direct Pay to Win boost I know I'm giving my money to MWM, whom I'd like to support directly. In short, I don't mind having to look at in-game advertising, but I wouldn't want to see MWM get in the middle of any interaction I might choose to have with any advertised products, either for real or in the game world.
I have doubts about whether such a scheme would be financially beneficial to MWM anyway, or whether advertisers would be interested. (TheInternetJanitor's comments above are quite on point, I think.) Then there's the whole role-playing can of worms: why would a robotic or ghost character get a boost from drinking a soda? Some might argue that even human characters should be more negatively affected than positively anyway. I recall our having this discussion a while back on some thread lost in the mists of time, and the general consensus was to keep any boost items extremely generic for RP reasons.
Spurn all ye kindle.
Be careful about product placement - this can very easily backfire on you - especially if it's unavoidable or too in-your-face. Occasional advertising on billboards around the city for real-life products/media (alongside fictional ones) I don't have much issue with (of course I'd love to see fictional adverts - especially ones that tie into the larger setting/lore). If I see Anthem chugging a Coke while giving a big thumbs up during a loading screen I'd roll my eyes and tab out to another program.
The big problem is going to be this: the first thing any potential advertiser (or at least one worth the effort to court) will ask is "how many eyes are going to be on my advertisement"? MWM's advertising wing will try to spin it in their favour, but the real answer is probably going to be along the lines of "not many and (depending on the nature of the advert) we really don't have any good way to give you an accurate number".
In-game advertising is not going to be a huge influx of cash to the game - it's been tried before and met either failure or at best mixed/limited success. Used sparingly it might not be so bad, but if MWM "whores the game out" you're likely going to just end up shooting yourself in the foot.
Many games do something similar - screenshots and game advice...even CoH did if I recall correctly. Best to stick to this I think.
If your goal is immersion and not monetization then don't include real world advertisers at all. You will get more immersion from your fictional creations than you ever will by adding real world products.
Nuka Cola from Fallout, Sprunk and Piswasser from GTA and Saints Flow from the Saints Row games all do more for immersion than being able to order a pizza in game.
A by product of this is you can monetize those fake brands in multitudes of ways. T-shirts, mouse pads, keychains, bobble heads and so on. Bethesda actually bottled a limited run of Nuka Cola and Quantum that they used as a giveaway.
Stores like Hot Topic or Spencer's gifts will even carry these types of niche products in their brick and mortar locations. Working a deal with something like Lootcrate is another possible revenue source.
You will never reach the same levels of profit you would with a good ad deal but if monetization is not the purpose then this is they way to go IMO.
I wouldn't mind owning some merch with in-game brands on them, especially if they have great pun names.
"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."
Now *that's* something I could get behind, and it would be direct income to MWM.
Spurn all ye kindle.
OMG. I don't know how much revenue it would create for the owner, but having a literal storefront "storefront" in which the character clicks on the door and that puts them in an empty instance (only in order to remove them from the open world instance). The player would just see a splash screen with the banner ad of the owning company, but it would create a pop-up window taking them to the owner's IRL storefront.
Like I said, I doubt enough players would take advantage of the opportunity to actually do this when all they would really need to do is Alt+TAB to open their own web browser whenever they want. So really it would probably be better suited for enterprises willing to enter into a partnership with MWM with no revenue exchange at all between them. So a company like [url=https://www.heroforge.com/]Hero Forge [/url] might do something like this if they get a contract with MWM. There could even be a comic book store where the characters can go in and read past issues of Hijinx and any other user-created (and MWM vetted) comics set in the CoT universe. There could be a mod-shop which takes people to a third-party mod market. (although I wonder if MWM would suffer the ramifications for any mods not fitting the T for teen rating .... nix that idea)
I'm in brainstorm mode right now, so some ideas may be rubbish, but the gist is the question: what would we be able to do if we gave IRL stores an actual storefront in Titan City? If we did so, it would have to be of value to both the store owner and the player (and by extension, the latter would be of value to MWM, even if the link is revenue neutral to MWM)
Two great ideas, Brainbot. You're on a roll lately.
[hr]I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
In game advertising in freemium games has been highly profitable. As much as 50% of total profits (in the case of mobile apps) come from ad revenue. Subscription fees only account for 3-10% while in game consumables (coins to purchase in game items, aesthetics and so forth) account for up to 40% of total profit.
In game advertising is not a failure or only had limited success. For many games, leveraging the free to play customers with an ad revenue model is simply the most profitable type of monetization.
Thank you, but I didn't come up with this. It was brought up in various forms throughout this thread. I think even you mentioned the idea of monetizing peripherals.
I won’t lie, I’d be tempted to buy a t-shirt or mug or mousepad with an in-game company logo on it. I love stuff like that. :)
Also, plushie versions of NPCs are popular. I’ve bought some from the Blizzard store for my daughters (because they unlock in-game pets for me too).
Most F2P games have an actual SHOP menu item in the game menu. But in CoT, why not have an in-game actual storefront that takes us into a virtual MWM merchandise store? We can buy STARS there or whatever F2P currency if fungible for playtime or cash shop, but also all the current cash shop items and subscription time could be in the store as well.
Since that store would be a single instance we could link to it from any "door" we want to, meaning we could put it in as many convenient locations anywhere in the city as we need.
Edit: I just remembered that Archeage does this to tremendoues effect:
[youtube]AO0hvuxBvkw[/youtube]
[hr]I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
I wouldn't like the idea of tying out of universe purchases with an in-universe storefront.
If such a thing exists I'd forever be wondering what it is my character is buying when I buy stars or whatever. Do they actually exist in universe and what are they for? Why does this store only accept stars and not my character's money? What is this weird place?
Unless it's like a weird alien transdimensional store or something, and it's run by a weirdo that only accepts that bizarre currency but then I'd have to wonder what my hero is buying it -with- and what that currency actually -is- in universe.
To me...
[img]http://www.papichuloradio.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/2792810-tumblr_lqwb2wKk4e1qcud1ho1_500.png[/img]
"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."
What if you could get all different temp buffs from this "group" from all vendors, both the product-placement type and the neutral pure in-game type?
This way you wouldn't be "forced" to support a specific one and it would be in line with the "food buff" thread iirc, in that specific buffs should not be tied to specific foods but rather any food (or at least food place/vendor/vending machine) should be able to dispense any such temp buff.
@thread
Thinking it over the only requirement I would have: Don't break immersion. When talking billboards vending machines and such it has to look like a natural part of the in-game world, and load screen should relate to supers some how.
For [I]Free to Play Mobile games[/I], sure. CoT isn't going to be a F2P mobile game - hell, it's not even going to be a traditional F2P game - it's going to have an upfront cost with optional sub and a cash shop. It's not quite the same ecosystem; while mobile gaming has become desensitized to it, the tolerance for explicit advertising may be much lower in traditional gaming due to it's rarity (to say nothing of other things like gambling/loot box mechanics).
CoT does have an advantage in that it is a contemporary setting and can take advantage of real-world advertising without looking out of place - so there may be a tasteful way to do it and make a little bit of cash at the same time, but I just don't see a more traditional game like CoT reaping the same rewards as a Candy Crush does through in-game advertisements.
One thing though - if MWM does intend to allow advertising in-game, subbers should have the option to turn it off.
EDIT: [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In-game_advertising#Game_industry_reaction]This Wikipedia article on the subject offers a bit of insight[/url].
I said Freemium not free to play. And customers who choose not to support a game monetarily generally accept viewing ads as an alternate means of contribution, not just in mobile games but all games.
If the game is [I]free[/i], maybe, otherwise it can be a double-edged sword. And CoT isn't going to be [I]free[/I] - there is an up-front cost, PLUS other revenue streams such as the cash shop and optional sub.
Again - I am not against some in-game advertising as long as it is done right, but I don't expect it to generate nearly as much money as some mobile games manage to accumulate just due to differences in demographics and ecosystems.
I would agree with this if you are talking about games on a phone but not for my pc. For me, the reason being on my phone I'm not as invested into any game but on my pc I am and I don't expect any ads after I've taken the time to get that invested already. Now that doesn't mean I don't agree with some tastefully done advertising that meshes well with the game but nothing that just up and rips me out of immersion. I don't think most people that enjoyed COH really want to see it's successor become an ad laden game. I know I don't...
"A sad spectacle. If they be inhabited, what a scope for misery and folly. If they be not inhabited, what a waste of space." ~ Thomas Carlyle
Yes, as others have said, please no loading-screen ads or company mascots appearing in-game.
Product placement *could* work, provided it feels natural. In other words, if there's a story reason why a character might want to take a drink "on screen," then it's entirely plausible that the person could drink a Pepsi, for example. But if that happened in every mission, then it would feel pretty forced. Discretion would be critical.
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.
I do like the idea of having merch and in game stuff related to a made up product if it is a fun part of the world and has decent writing associated with it. Something iconic.
The examples given previously were spot on, Saints flow probably being one of the best in this regard since it was more than just another product in the world. It was significant part of some characters and went on to be a focal point of some story content.
Think big, have the product in question be something that is involved in a memorable event in some way. Everyone remembers soylent green. Everyone remembers the Avengers eating Shawarma.
As previously mentioned, this would also mean all the revenue from this would 100% go to MWM rather than getting pennies for advertising someone else's stuff.
Yeah, subtle product placement is what's needed here. Though you could probably have big name heroes do the Ads too if you wanted. It would be a lot like celebrity endorsement and would make sense.
not my video just one I lke ===> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6-SdIN0hsM
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If there were to be any advertisements, I would hope they'd be for the made-up products and services of Titan City and the surrounding world.
[img]http://hill-kleerup.org/blog/heroes/wp/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/enriche_100916-19-14-00.jpg[/img]
[img=640x360]https://i.ytimg.com/vi/bWOy1aX7SSo/maxresdefault.jpg[/img]
I'm still amazed CoH unknowingly created the Snuggie
[B]Revenge is motivation enough. At least it's honest...[/B]
Roleplayer; Esteemed Villain
[img]http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/5.jpg[/img]
I cant believe most of you actually seem excited for this idea of using advertisements. Do you enjoy being inundated with ads on every platform in your daily lives? I play a game to get away from all that corporate greed. I understand it may bring in revenue but if they need to rely on ads to bring in an audience, then they are in trouble from the start.
Not to mention it would be giving MWM a crutch so that they can say, well no one liked this new issue so lets rename Titan City to Domino's City for a month to make up for it.
Now, because ads are so much a reality, I am not completely against using them, but only if they are ads for completely made up companies.
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[color=#FF0000]Graphic Designer[/color]
These are amazing! This is the kind of stuff I would love to see.
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[color=#FF0000]Graphic Designer[/color]
After watching a bunch of vids for [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallout_76]Fallout 76[/url] it occurred to me that MWM could always create its own version of "Vault Boy":
[img=200x200]https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1498/2894/products/official-bethesda-fallout-vault-boy-wallet-23.png?v=1506497266[/img]
The Fallout series has relied on its Vault Boy mascot to carry the "brand" and Bethesda has made a ton of money over the years selling Vault Boy merch.
It would be following the same model the Japanese have been using for years to have a mascots represent all sorts of things including city governments. The following vid highlights all of that:
[youtube]rVNEV9yeuqk[/youtube]
All MWM needs to do is come up with a single mascot for Titan City and then maybe a few more for other places/organizations in the game. Do that and people will line up to do this:
[img=400x400]https://www.aybonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/Bottle-caps-fallout-4.jpg[/img]
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
The only time I mind ads is when they're obtrusive, loud, annoying, or offensive.
A billboard? Don't care. Branded vending machines? Don't care. Small banner ads? Don't care. Etc.
It's when they're in front of YouTube videos, like 30 seconds long (or more), and unskippable that bothers me.
If they pop up and interrupt what I'm doing, they bother me.
If they're the stupid bullshit ones that have an x to close them that's fake, that bothers me.
"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."
We're exited because it means that the devs can get more money, which means the game can become more awesome!!
not my video just one I lke ===> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6-SdIN0hsM
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No one is talking about a massive invasion of mallware.
One this is MWM we are talking about, they have put this game together wisely from the beginning. I trust they will do this subtly. I like the vending machine idea because it should come with a couple of free emotes. Purchase and drinking the product. The emotes would encourage players to interact with the product.
That said I remember a thread a while back where some brilliant person suggested our own version of "Nuka Cola" to be sold from vending machines as healing inspirations instead of buying them at a store. Alas. The idea was shot down. It would have been cool though.
[img]https://s15.postimg.cc/z9bk1znkb/Black_Falcon_Sig_in_Progess.jpg[/img]
Why was it shot down? that sounds awesome.
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[color=#FF0000]Graphic Designer[/color]
I think they already had plans set in cement. too late to change things.
[img]https://s15.postimg.cc/z9bk1znkb/Black_Falcon_Sig_in_Progess.jpg[/img]
For a mascot, how about Gabby Cabbie? I think he’d be perfect. People who’ve been following this game should know who he is.
He could be the narrator (voiced or not) for tutorials and stuff.
I really like that idea. I pictured it clearly, even his voice, guiding me through the city.
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[color=#FF0000]Graphic Designer[/color]
I have actually been thinking of such a storefront instance. I can create such very quickly as a matter of fact.
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[color=#FF0000]Senior Developer/Project Manager/Co-Founder... and then some.[/color]
For the record I probably didn't name this thread well. I wasn't thinking in terms of advertising [i]per se[/i] but in terms of in game purchasing. What triggered this was conversations over the years of seeing some abstract pizza company in game and deciding I want to buy a pizza. The brand didn't matter. In one of our announcement threads someone mentioned wanting to be able to do the same thing. To be sure you can alt-tab (or, in my case, just mouse over to another monitor) and use your browser but it wouldn't be as convenient. If I could just run to that generic store and just make a buy somehow I'd be thrilled. In game advertising of real products? I can tolerate it if it is really informative. Like a new movie of the appropriate genre. We will likely have "movie theaters" in the game for example. If I can go into one that has a RL movie on the marquee and get a trailer shown that'd be cool. Outside a grocery store there is an advert for a new brand of cola/potato chip/whatever. Go into the store and get more info. Same with generic pizza restaurants. See the RL pizza advertised there as a new product promo or other special from a brand. Go in and get more info or order through an embedded browser - yes, I can embed browsers in the game. A simple Chromium browser that does not allow downloads essentially. Already tested it for a YouTube channel (Extra Credits).
Outside ads in a proper location? Check.
Custom store instances? Check?
Embedded browser? Check.
Trivial.
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[color=#FF0000]Senior Developer/Project Manager/Co-Founder... and then some.[/color]
Sounds like you already have the best parts of this wrapped up right there avel!
"A sad spectacle. If they be inhabited, what a scope for misery and folly. If they be not inhabited, what a waste of space." ~ Thomas Carlyle
How about a KS reward where you can name one of the movie titles on the marquee? lol
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[color=#FF0000]Graphic Designer[/color]
For the record here is what we CAN'T do:
[list]
[*]Track individual players for advertising/marketing purposes. That's part of our privacy policy (I'm the guy who pushed for our EULA and policy. I'm also the guy who filled out all the details for the lawyers. That was a $4,000.00 USD outlay to the attorneys; I'll never forget that "Ouch!"). Using an in-game browser with a third party for such may have some issues. This would have to be evaluated accordingly.
[*]Use in-game currencies to purchase real world products. Legal liability that may create the appearance of money laundering.
[*]Use real-world currency in game to buy in-game currency. Security issue. We want to keep the game far away from user's bank accounts. Using an in-game browser with a third party for such may have some issues. This would have to be evaluated accordingly.
[/list]
Where is what we CAN do:
[list]
[*] Anonymize and aggregate data on user activity.
[*] Open an external browser if we don't feel an embedded one is sufficiently secure. I hope we can do better than that but the option is available as a backup plan.
[/list]
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[color=#FF0000]Senior Developer/Project Manager/Co-Founder... and then some.[/color]
[b]EARN in game currency with emote ads![/b]**
[img]https://s15.postimg.cc/bnrz4l4zf/untitled_by_shamserg-dbwzhs7.png[/img]
** another really evil thought brought to you by Cyclops.
[img]https://s15.postimg.cc/z9bk1znkb/Black_Falcon_Sig_in_Progess.jpg[/img]
I despise greed and materialism as much as the next person, and probably more.
However, in most modern cities, billboards, vending machines, and other forms of advertising are an indisputable part of the landscape. One of the great advantages of world building in a modern setting is that you can tap into lore and symbolism that the audience already knows, without having to explain everything from scratch.
Yes, it's possible to create amusing ads for fake products, and various games have done so very well. But IMHO the immersion is better if the ads are real. Why reinvent the wheel? The devs can save time from making fake ads, and create a revenue stream into the game.
To turn things around, why is it better to have fake ads for fake products? Doesn't that just scream, "This world is fake too?"
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.
Having fake products in a game is innocent to me. There is no ulterior motive behind a made up soda or cape/blanket because it doesn't exist. Seeing an ad for McDonald's or Pepsi just makes me think of greed. And how these companies never get enough, they want every man, woman, and child to be over consuming their products.
Like I said before, we see enough of this in the real world so why bring it into our virtual world? Id much rather fly by a billboard promoting a fake burger place that actually exists on the map, than an actual mcdonalds that id have to leave the game to go get. Not that I would anyway.
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[color=#FF0000]Graphic Designer[/color]
I'm fine with in game ads (like billboards and such) for real life products, as long as they fit with the setting.
CoH's limited ads had a bit of trouble with this. The only one I can remember seeing was very vivid and its stylizing didn't fit with the world around it (particularly when they showed up in zones like Boomtown, where the entire neighborhood was bland grey rubble, except this one brightly colored, pristine billboard). It just stood out like a sore thumb.
Also, CoH included an option in the UI to turn the ads off which CoT could also include. Kinda defeats the purpose to allow people to opt out of ads, but if monetization isn't the primary goal anyhow then it seems like a non-issue.
I would argue that this is actually less convenient. Leaving aside the issue of which pizza company it would link to, whether they deliver where one lives, etc., surely it's more convenient to alt-tab, mouse to another monitor, or pick up a phone than it is to move one's character to the appropriate store-front in the game world. Ordering pizza the normal way can be done no matter where one's character is in the game, and doesn't require an extra bit of code to develop, test, and maintain. (Even if it's only a little bit of code it's still more than none.)
I also find the idea quite immersion-breaking: my character is ordering pizza...for me? Who am I to this character?
Spurn all ye kindle.
Well, I didn't say it was entirely a GOOD idea! :p Just inspirational.
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[color=#FF0000]Senior Developer/Project Manager/Co-Founder... and then some.[/color]
Lol!
I think perhaps in this case it's best to listen to Ian Malcolm from the first Jurassic Park. :-)
Spurn all ye kindle.
If product placement gave us costume pieces with corporate logos on them, I'd be very tempted to create Captain Product Placement who uses all of them and only speaks in corporate slogans and inspirational quotes. Would probably have to research the brands to get it right, too.
But I'd imagine that any advertisers would probably not want to see their product used for violence. Except maybe Nerf. An actual licensed Nerf bat would be hilarious.
If MWM goes down the billboard route, I would suggest the following.
a.) Have a MWM artist create a unique advertisement with elements of the client's ad campaign. If it is something that I see on my real world TV/mobile device or whatever, my brain is going to gloss over it and ignore it (and or get pissed that I am looking at an ad).
b.) Take into account what OathboundOne mentioned above. Integrate the billboard into the environment. Should it be pristine? Should it be torn up a bit, shot up or graffiti'd? That could also be a cue as to what criminal element is active in the area.
c.) Place billboards where they would logically appear in the environment. Avoid using the giant multi-story banners on buildings for this type of advertising.
d.) Take a similar approach for bus stop shelters.
"Just, well, update your kickstarter email addresses, okay? Make sure they're current?" - warcabbit
a.k.a. Captain Amazing from Mystery Men. But as a NPC that hangs around in a low crime area type of thing.
"Just, well, update your kickstarter email addresses, okay? Make sure they're current?" - warcabbit
Since CoT is going to be an MMO, I assume you will want to create long term advertising deals. Companies can have long running campaigns or mix it up frequently or have seasonal approaches to ads. Would you react to the client's desire to change things up or keep things relatively static?
If you use the in-game location vendor / storefront idea, what happens if the client cancels the ad agreement? Shutter the location? It gets hit by a meteor? It goes into transition and gets repurposed to another client?
What sort of impact will this have on the dev cycle (coding time, testing, bug fixes)? How often are you going to have to push updates (any and all of these advertising approaches) to the users? And how large are these advertising updates going to be (a.k.a. how long am I going to have to not do anything so you can maybe advertise to me in game)?
"Just, well, update your kickstarter email addresses, okay? Make sure they're current?" - warcabbit
I suggest something different. [b]Emotes.[/b]
e/DrinkPepsi
e/DrinkBud (drinks a Beer)
e/Dominoes (gets box with logo, eats a pizza slice)
this way, [u]the player gets a reward for interacting with a product,[/u] and a product placement occurs
[img]https://s15.postimg.cc/z9bk1znkb/Black_Falcon_Sig_in_Progess.jpg[/img]
Just listened to a Jimmy John's commercial, and it occurred to me how appropriate it would be for a speedster superhero to be involved somehow as an endorsement or as a marketing schtick. And of course, that led me to think about this thread and how [img=100x100]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/b5/Jimmy_John%27s_Logo.png[/img] could be a valid sponsor for product placement or billboard/signage.
[hr]I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
Don't get me going on Jimmy John's. Part of how they can manage to deliver "freaky fast" is that their delivery area is usually very small - I think it's like within a mile of their location. Anyway one of their stores opened up near us like a year or so ago and it turns out we live maybe 50 feet farther than their max range. Every time we drive there to pick something up we always half-joke with them that we're going move their store to where this other restaurant died recently that's like only half the distance from our house...
But yeah the idea that a speedster would deliver for them is kind of funny. ;)
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
It could be cool if we could get brand logos as symbols. Tiger & Bunny did a pretty great take on sponsored heroes. We could do that too.
not my video just one I lke ===> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6-SdIN0hsM
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I hate jimmy johns, the ceo posts picture of himself standing over elephants and such animals with a big grin on his greedy face.
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[color=#FF0000]Graphic Designer[/color]
Agreed from "Let me pay for the actual game and I am happy to do so. At the very least limit advertising to free to play accounts."
Gary L Rohlman Jr
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