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Do we want Slightly Tilted UI Panels?

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Izzy
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Do we want Slightly Tilted UI Panels?

Hello Everybody,

As you might already know, ScaleForm was able to display flash elements for the hud, but slightly tilted:
Example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKDuzVbi50Q

I'm experimenting with UDK trying to do something similar, but not with ScaleForm or Flash.
I'm just drawing to the Canvas...
Example: http://youtu.be/P8D4ziOixCE

Is this something we could pursure further?
I'm very curious to see if this could be a possible approach to UI panels in CoT.

Thanks,
Izzy.

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I could see something like

I could see something like this as an option if it doesn't take up too much Dev-time to get it working. But I think "standard" non-titled UIs should be the default.

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Lin Chiao Feng
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It depends on what your

It depends on what your minimum expectations are for video card and monitor resolution. As a first pass, I'd say "no" because it's easier to guarantee that things will be readable on minimal hardware if they haven't been through 3D transforms.

On the other hand, it's worth exploring.

Has anyone seen my mind? It was right here...

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I love the idea of 3D UI but

I love the idea of 3D UI but from my experience, Unreal does not do the best job at this from what I've seen.. I DO love the translucent UI for windows tho.. the "tech" look is just super awesome .. way more of a "Cool Factor" than regular UI and this also allows you to see things in real time since you cannot "pause" the servers.

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A specific critique I have

A specific critique I have for you on your demo there Izzy is that if you do wind up doing this, I'd want the "slide" motion in 3D to cover less distance than what you were using. This was perfectly fine as part of a proof of concept demonstration, because it was large enough to be obvious and visible, but I'd want the real UI elements to have have slightly less movement (-20%?) than what you were doing here.


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Izzy
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Redlynne wrote:
Redlynne wrote:

... the "slide" motion in 3D to cover less distance ...

Agreed.

Albeit, i was hoping that the Avatar Builder for the Mobile Devices might use a Swipe gesture to navigate through the 3D Menu's using something similar to what I'm trying to accomplish.


But instead use a Landscape orientation.. with the Avatar on the left or the right. (maybe on the left, since right handed people can use just their thumb on one side to swipe)

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And not thinking about a left

And not thinking about a left handed version for us lefties?

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Gangrel wrote:
Gangrel wrote:

And not thinking about a left handed version for us lefties?

Yeah but if a "leftie" version of this thing was provided what would you lefties have left (get it?) to complain about? ;)

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Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:

I could see something like this as an option if it doesn't take up too much Dev-time to get it working. But I think "standard" non-titled UIs should be the default.

I agree with this. I think that if you're going the route of 3D UI, the player needs to be able to select if they want 2D or 3D. For menus and the like, 3D is fine but in game UI needs to be switchable, just in case...

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If you're making it

If you're making it selectable between 2D or 3D, that means the devs have to implement, test, and support both and any feature that only works in one mode is likely to be left out.

Has anyone seen my mind? It was right here...

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Lin Chiao Feng wrote:
Lin Chiao Feng wrote:

If you're making it selectable between 2D or 3D, that means the devs have to implement, test, and support both and any feature that only works in one mode is likely to be left out.

That's true. That's why I'd prefer the K.I.S.S. principle for this - worry about getting everything working in the simpler "2D" version first as the default then worry about anything fancy and/or 3D as an optional mode later.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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I would say keep it simple. I

I would say keep it simple. I would rather have a nice clean, easy to read interface that is not taxing on the game or people's eyesight than have 3d menus. If there is time after release then you could add the 3d variant as an option.

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Honestly, while the UI is

Honestly, while the UI is obviously important, as long as it has similar function and customizability to CoH, I'll be more than happy. Ooh-Aah factor in the UI is not even secondary for me. (What comes after tertiary?) Transluscency is cool, customizing colors is great, but if it intrudes too much on my screen real estate or takes me out of what's happening in game, I'd as soon do without. Keep it simple and easy to interpret at a glance, if you don't mind.

And what's all this talk about "swiping?" Are you assuming we're all playing on tablets? Or that we'll all have been forced to use Windows 8 by the time the game comes out and that we're using touchscreens with our Home PC? Myself, I use a 46" flat screen as my primary monitor and I sit 4 feet away from it. What do you mean by "swiping?"

This brings up another question for me...::sigh:: probably another thread. Should I start one on "Multiple screen support", and where should I put it?

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WarBird wrote:
WarBird wrote:

Should I start one on "Multiple screen support", and where should I put it?

Technical Support Issues Forum


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WarBird wrote:
WarBird wrote:

And what's all this talk about "swiping?" Are you assuming we're all playing on tablets? Or that we'll all have been forced to use Windows 8 by the time the game comes out and that we're using touchscreens with our Home PC? Myself, I use a 46" flat screen as my primary monitor and I sit 4 feet away from it. What do you mean by "swiping?"

I think people are talking about using things like the upcoming Costume Creator app on things like smartphones and tablets. Like you I doubt I'd have any intention of actually "playing" this game on anything that requires swiping.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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Redlynne wrote:
Redlynne wrote:

WarBird wrote:
Should I start one on "Multiple screen support", and where should I put it?
Technical Support Issues Forum

Its already been brought up in a thread...

Quote:

1) I reject your reality.... and substitute my own
2) Not to be used when upset... will void warranty
3) Stoke me a clipper i will be back for dinner
4) I have seen more intelligence from an NPC AI in TR beta, than from most MMO players.

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Sheesh..you guys could'na

Sheesh..you guys could'na thrown me a link?

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Seriously, Can you be more

Seriously, Can you be more specific? I don't see a Forum with that title, and none of the forums I see with something *like* that title have a recognizable thread... lil' help.

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Try this thread, WarBird.

Try this thread, WarBird.

- - - - -
Hail Beard!

Support trap clowns for CoT!

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Of course, you could always

Of course, you could always go hardcore and dispense with both the 2D and 3D UIs. Just have two windows: one with the 3D view, and the other... telnet.

Welcome to Titan City!
(C) 2015 Missing Worlds Media
All rights reserved
build COT12.20160401b

Current borough: Phoenix Plaza
> run
> jump
> enter door
> talk to trainer
Welcome, ${HERO}! You have enough experience for level 2!
> select cls 2
You have selected classification power 2: "Boot to the head" Are you sure (y/n)? y
You have trained in "Boot to the Head"! To use, type "pow 2".
> pow 2
Ow! You booted me in the head!

etc.

Has anyone seen my mind? It was right here...

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Lin Chiao Feng wrote:
Lin Chiao Feng wrote:

Of course, you could always go hardcore and dispense with both the 2D and 3D UIs. Just have two windows: one with the 3D view, and the other... telnet.

Welcome to Titan City!
(C) 2015 Missing Worlds Media
All rights reserved
build COT12.20160401b

Current borough: Phoenix Plaza
> run
> jump
> enter door
> talk to trainer
Welcome, ${HERO}! You have enough experience for level 2!
> select cls 2
You have selected classification power 2: "Boot to the head" Are you sure (y/n)? y
You have trained in "Boot to the Head"! To use, type "pow 2".
> pow 2
Ow! You booted me in the head!

etc.

Approach, Ed Gruberman, that you might learn.

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Lin Chiao Feng wrote:
Lin Chiao Feng wrote:

Of course, you could always go hardcore and dispense with both the 2D and 3D UIs. Just have two windows: one with the 3D view, and the other... telnet.

Welcome to Titan City!
(C) 2015 Missing Worlds Media
All rights reserved
build COT12.20160401b

Current borough: Phoenix Plaza
> run
> jump
> enter door
> talk to trainer
Welcome, ${HERO}! You have enough experience for level 2!
> select cls 2
You have selected classification power 2: "Boot to the head" Are you sure (y/n)? y
You have trained in "Boot to the Head"! To use, type "pow 2".
> pow 2
Ow! You booted me in the head!

etc.

City of Zork? Sign me up! ;)

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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Mendicant wrote:
Mendicant wrote:

Approach, Ed Gruberman, that you might learn.

Few novices experience so much of Tae Kwon Leep so soon.

Has anyone seen my mind? It was right here...

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once I have added a 3D type

once I have added a 3D type of UI Slider control, I might try working in a Avatar Creator proof of concept. Not sure yet though.

If i do, i'll most likely add exotic backgrounds like...
http://priteeboy.deviantart.com/art/Another-Day-In-Paradise-226758681
http://neoflo.deviantart.com/art/circle-393937675

and some more tamer backgrounds like...
http://abclic.deviantart.com/art/Pilotis-275047175
http://jordan-roberts.deviantart.com/art/Winter-Washing-Away-368533145

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It's definitely worth

It's definitely worth exploring if you can squeeze it in, but I'd highly recommend making an option to turn it off so players can choose to have more of a classic UI. It could also add a sense of immersion to the game, think about this, you could use it to get a hold of your contacts and check mail, just like coh, but with an immersive 3d looking call/menu system. Plus, how cool would it be to check out another players profile like this too.

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Quick Update:

Quick Update:

I was worried i wouldnt be able to Convincingly pull of Dragging of the HUD Button, but it seems that its looking better than i thought.

Video: http://youtu.be/JeYKCwaIJdY

Izzy
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Just testing some Glossy GUI

Just testing some Glossy GUI Buttons:

1 min Screencast Video: http://youtu.be/fZUlSXIS310

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I want Hologram looking UI

I want Hologram looking UI buttons. It'd be cool if the UI had lot of transparency.

I personally LOVE the GUI in Marvel Heroes

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Izzy
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JayBezz wrote:
JayBezz wrote:

I want Hologram looking UI buttons. It'd be cool if the UI had lot of transparency.
I personally LOVE the GUI in Marvel Heroes

Same here. Every bit of the HUD UI will be Translucent... some not so much, others... Allot!

Ex: the black chat background area... it will be translucent as well.

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Quick update:

Quick update:

using GUI Buttons as Sliderbars:

Short screencast video: http://youtu.be/E3ISJJhVqv4

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Ok.. Im using Inkscape to

Ok.. Im using Inkscape to make some possible PowerTray backgrounds... this is one:

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Izzy, I think this might be

Izzy, I think this might be one time where a "less is more" aesthetic will serve you better than a "less is a bore" philosophy. One thing that sticks with me as being rather iconic from my City of Heroes days is the "lozenge" shape of the Power Trays, and just how utilitarian simple they were. I think that you would be well served to replicate that styling for City of Titans. The reason I say this is because although that hex pattern is clever (and as an ancient Traveller player, I thoroughly enjoy hex grids of the Spinward Marches sector map!), in this case I think you're going to find that using this winds up being more "busy" than is really worth the effort, visually speaking. You want something "clean" in appearance.


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I love this. Seriously LOVE

I love this. Seriously LOVE this.. Looks AWESOME!

Not a final product but well on its way! Keep it up

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Redlynne wrote:
Redlynne wrote:

Izzy, I think this might be one time where a "less is more" aesthetic will serve you better than a "less is a bore" philosophy. One thing that sticks with me as being rather iconic from my City of Heroes days is the "lozenge" shape of the Power Trays, and just how utilitarian simple they were. I think that you would be well served to replicate that styling for City of Titans. The reason I say this is because although that hex pattern is clever (and as an ancient Traveller player, I thoroughly enjoy hex grids of the Spinward Marches sector map!), in this case I think you're going to find that using this winds up being more "busy" than is really worth the effort, visually speaking. You want something "clean" in appearance.


You must have a pretty good disguise going to hide the wings and scales. ^_^

I think some of the hexes are just there to demonstrate the translucency of the HUD components.

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Izzy, you're at the point

Izzy, you're at the point where you've got to step back and think in terms of artistic design. Pick a few elements and use them consistently, instead of making every little thing unique.

For example, looking at that tray, the up/down arrows are oddly placed at the left, both being near the middle, and thus hard to click on and easy to click the wrong one. Please make them bigger and space them out, at the very least. Many games put the tray number in between the arrows as a bit of "safety" spacing to reduce mis-clicks.

Further, the whole shape of the left edge seems quite arbitrary, and completely out of sync with the right edge. As Redlynne pointed out, City of Heroes used the lozenge shape (and by extension the rounded-corner rectangle) as its overarching design element. (Another reason the lozenge shape worked so well was that it lines up very nicely with rows and columns of circular elements, i.e. power buttons.) In Star Trek Online, the Federation uses this same lozenge shaping, Klingons use a more hexagonal approach, and Romulans use trapeziods.

The hexes don't bother me as much if the hexes themselves are only subtly brighter than the background. Speaking of which, remember that the buttons overlaid onto the tray will have colors of their own, which could "bleed into" the background if the two aren't sufficiently distinct. Normally, this problem is mitigated by making the background out of muted, desaturated, or otherwise "de-emphasized" colors with respect to the buttons.

And all that really depends on what the art and powers people want to do with those buttons. In CoH, every power set had its own color combination which helped "theme" that power set. So the backgrounds were actually very dark, nearly black. Further, they used an orbiting comet kind of "power is active" indicator, and space had to be made for that. That same space was used (with a different color) to indicate the next powers in chain attacks, and auto-fire powers. The colors for all those things need to be distinct from the background. All these things led to their choice of a dark background, and while your red-to-blue transition is a neat effect and would be workable for other things (e.g. as a background for a text box with bold white text), it's probably going to clash with about 10-20% of the powersets. Assuming CoT uses a similar color scheming system for the power buttons, of course.

One big problem with significant amounts of translucency is that the amount of contrast you have between things in the tray and things behind it will be random, and on average lower contrast, than if the elements were opaque. IIRC, things get messy when alphas fall below about 80%. That said, lots of translucency is nice when you want unimportant elements to mostly "fade out" of the way.

Finally, don't pick too may thematic elements. Two or three will suffice. Two or three colors, two or three window shapes.

Has anyone seen my mind? It was right here...

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Just my opinion:

Just my opinion:

Izzy. Don't listen to ANY of the feedback that says to edit. There will be a time for editing but that time is not now. Pick a few colors? Hell no! Pick a GUI that goes the full rainbow and flows through the spectrum. Pick one style and stick with it? No sir! We have Character Sheets, and bios, and gear, and powers .. LOTS of windows for us to interface with. I don't want you to stop at a few concepts because the next big idea is on the tip of your tounge.. or.. code.. ? More ideas, more creativity, MORE Craziness… THEN edit

As an artist take it from me.. the time for experimentation and craziness is not even close to done. Don't edit. Get Crazier. Get MORE elaborate. Go Nuts… no really .. make me think you've lost it.

THEN come back and edit.

Keep It up.. and don't take any of the feedback too seriously until you've defined your art/function of the GUI… then listen to the overlords

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Well, first he has to make an

Well, first he has to make an underlying structure that Works. This is a UI, not a art-piece.

Be Well!
Fireheart

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I was thinking of adding the

I was thinking of adding the rows in the powertray using a 3D look...
ex:
So when the mouse is over the power tray and you use the Scroll Wheel (or + -) it will Animate from the foreground row, to the previous or next one in the view.
So... instead of having to take up 3 full rows on screen, the 2 background rows (slightly dimmed, and farther/smaller) will be under the foreground powers row.
I'm thinking maybe 5 pixels overlap, maybe more if you can clearly tell wheather the power has finished recharging and ready for use. Still brainstorming. :)

Also, perhaps have 3 rows as well for the Inspirations... but Auto group them... so one row is automatically populated with Health inspirations, next inspirations row is auto populated with Endurace inspurations.. etc... And would use the Scroll Whell to navigate when mouse is Over the Ispirations tray (or Shift + -, or whatever you want).
F1 for Health Inspirations, F2 for Endurace inspirations, etc... and once an inspiration is used, the adjacent inspirations would all automatically slide left to fill the position of the just used inspiration. (it doesnt Have to do it like that, could just pretent the LAST one was used and leave all the inspirations alone, and just remove the last one, but i think people will like to see that the inspiration was used in a visually pleasing way)
Well, you can have a Miscelaneous Row (Alt + Right Click and change it from whatever, to Misc), but if the Misc Inspirations row is in the Foreground, the F1, F2 F3, etc... will work like it did in CoH. Im thinking 10 maybe 12 inspiration slots visible at any time for each Inspirations Row. And could have more than 30 Miscelaneous Inspiration Rows. Including the Auto populating ones for the General Inspirations. As you Train Up, Inspirations slots will become available. etc...
Still Brainstorming.

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While I like the look of the

While I like the look of the 3D interface, unless the powers that are in them are mutually exclusive based on some state in the game, please do not use that interface for power trays. The ability to add additional power trays in CoH was one of the best quality-of-life improvements they ever put in. A level 50 character that was actively working on Incarnate content, along with day jobs, temp powers from mission arcs, etc, could easily have 6 trays worth of powers available to them at any given time. Being able to instantly click on any of them was a great benefit, having to scroll through them would be painful, especially with the scroll model you seem to be seeing there, where not only would it change focus, it would actually move the tray in the process.

Pretty, yes, functional, not so much.

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This whole concept is based

This whole concept is based on Scaleform, which is built on Flash. We are not using Scaleform for our UI, so while novel, this is of little practical use for development.

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Doctor Tyche wrote:
Doctor Tyche wrote:

This whole concept is based on Scaleform, which is built on Flash. We are not using Scaleform for our UI, so while novel, this is of little practical use for development.

Huuu? o.O

ummm... the whole point of this was to find a way to make it seem like its using Scaleform and Flash, but its just all inside Unreal. Its ok. You dont have to read what it says here. ;) You're most likely here because someone pushed you to look at this. ;D Its a very rough approach right now... but trust me, I'll work on it 'till its astounding. ;)

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Bellerophon wrote:
Bellerophon wrote:

... The ability to add additional power trays in CoH was one of the best quality-of-life improvements they ever put in. ...

No worries... I'm thinking you might be able to add additional free floating power trays, but just the foreground row, like CoH/CoV had, or step it up a notch and allow for more than one Main looking power tray. Main power tray always having max of 3 rows visible at any time.

Also, you can left click on the background row powers and activate them, the foreground will just be slightly translucent if needed to see the top or bottom background power rows, as the mouse over changes. ;)

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I just made a super crude

I just made a super crude Illustation depicting the Power tray and the Mouse Scroll Wheel idea:

Edit: (slightly better screenshot of the idea)

Here is the Screencast (4 mins) of me failing to clearly express what i want. :(
video: http://youtu.be/ufrlyL2_Fj4

Now that i think about it.. my own preference would be to use Control + Numbers for Row 2, and Shift + Numbers for Row 3. ;)

Redlynne
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I use an Apple Keyboard and a

I use an Apple Keyboard and a dirt cheap Logitech M100 Mouse and "drive" my games using left hand on keyboard, right hand on mouse. My standard layout for controls is to use both the 1-0 and F1-F10 keys for tray rows before resorting to multi-key combinations such as Shift+(1-0) and Shift+(F1-F10) before moving on to Ctrl+(1-0) and Ctrl+(F1-F10). Due to my standard placement of three fingers of my left hand on the WEF keys (index finger on F, which on Apple Keyboards has a small bump at the bottom of the key for tactile key recognition), that puts the 1-6 keys within the easiest reach for me, and the F1-F6 keys make for an only slightly greater stretch since the Function Keys on an Apple Keyboard are only half height (and are thus effectively "closer" to the QWERTY).

I mention all of this as information for purposes of understanding my Human Machine Interface standard setup for every MMO game that I play.

With regards to what you're doing here Izzy ... I'm going to have to say that it looks nice AS ART ... emphasis on ART ... but is something that I would personally find frustrating and potentially annoying AS DESIGN. I say that because what you have is something that is being pretty for the sake of eye candy, as opposed to being clear and unambiguous. The major "objection" I suppose you could call it is the lack of separation between the rows, causing overlaps that OBSCURE. It's find when you're dealing with a static screen shot, but once you have powers recharging, some need to have rings around them (Street Justice and Dual Blades) and other graphical indicators applied to them, the system that you're showing will become very visually NOISY and confusing to look at. As Lin mentioned previously, an extremely important part of User Interface Design is leaving enough "white space" between options so as to eliminate mis-clicks and confusion between overlapping hotspots. Your 3D tray looks great but I can already tell just by looking at it that it would be a pain to USE for anyone who relies on mouse clicks to engage Powers in Trays. The presentation is also compressing out a substantial portion of the "white space" that you'd want to have between indicators, which can lead to visual confusion and misinterpretations of information at a glance that would not be occurring in a layout with more separation between Trays.

For this reason, My belief is that although your experiment here is a technical success (in that what you're doing "works" as far as the programming is concerned) it is unfortunately a design failure because of the "usage" issues I've already identified. For this reason (and a few others I'll spare you the reciting of), I honestly believe that the City of Heroes style "lozenge trays" of individual trays done in a purely 2D format is a superior design to what you are presenting here.

If it helps you any ... consider the reasoning behind why the gauges in cars for things like speed need to be "large" and "clear" and why Consumer Reports ALWAYS makes mention of this particular design feature whenever they review a vehicle. The same design philosophy needs to be applied to Power Trays as well, and in this respect, reinventing the wheel that City of Heroes developed does not seem to be a worthwhile endeavor or investment of your time and resources ... in my opinion.


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You can also look at the

You can also look at the various UI's that people come up with for World of Warcraft. Sure, the default version is playable for most people, but it could be worthwhile looking at various others that they have come up with...

Sure, some people come up with truely *ghastly* UI's in WoW... but the same could be said for (in my opinion) CoX, where they had everything out, and just a small tiny window in the center that was available for the player to see through.

Quote:

1) I reject your reality.... and substitute my own
2) Not to be used when upset... will void warranty
3) Stoke me a clipper i will be back for dinner
4) I have seen more intelligence from an NPC AI in TR beta, than from most MMO players.

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Redlynne wrote:
Redlynne wrote:

... With regards to what you're doing here Izzy ... I'm going to have to say that it looks nice AS ART ... emphasis on ART ... but is something that I would personally find frustrating and potentially annoying AS DESIGN. I say that because what you have is something that is being pretty for the sake of eye candy, as opposed to being clear and unambiguous. ...

That it is. I wont deny it. My design goal is to find a happy medium that will be pleasing to Most Players and still appeal to Artsy MAC users (think Dock tray for the OSX and how people dont complain how wastefull it is to do all that 3D stuff).

Redlynne wrote:

... For this reason, My belief is that although your experiment here is a technical success (in that what you're doing "works" as far as the programming is concerned) it is unfortunately a design failure because of the "usage" issues I've already identified. For this reason (and a few others I'll spare you the reciting of), I honestly believe that the City of Heroes style "lozenge trays" of individual trays done in a purely 2D format is a superior design to what you are presenting here. ...

I have no doubt that MWM will consider the Lozenge Trays as an option, so i'm kinda free to see if there is a different approach. ;) I might stumble, but I might trip over something thats really nice too.

Redlynne wrote:

... If it helps you any ... consider the reasoning behind why the gauges in cars for things like speed need to be "large" and "clear" and why Consumer Reports ALWAYS makes mention of this particular design feature whenever they review a vehicle. The same design philosophy needs to be applied to Power Trays as well, and in this respect, reinventing the wheel that City of Heroes developed does not seem to be a worthwhile endeavor or investment of your time and resources ... in my opinion.

Agreed. But, I'm going by what my past experience has been. And what I have done is make the Bottom power row filled with the most used powers.. middle row, semi most used... and top row.. every so often used powers. etc... So, my Speedometer row (bottom row), will stand out and be in the foreground. This is nothing new for me. I've done many 2D UI's and know allot about User Friendly design concepts. But i've never done one in 3D before... so bare with me and try to give positive input as i stumble along. ;D

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As an idea, I tended to lay

As an idea, I tended to lay my powers out by sets for CoX

Row 1: Primary
Row 2: Secondary
Row 3: Tertiary/Incarnates
Row 4: Travel powers
Row 5-8: Temp powers
Row 9: Old School Hami Raid powers needed (and only those)

This is how it starts (although temp powers can end up at the start of Row 1 at the *very* start of the game if they fill in a gap whilst waiting for other powers).

Quote:

1) I reject your reality.... and substitute my own
2) Not to be used when upset... will void warranty
3) Stoke me a clipper i will be back for dinner
4) I have seen more intelligence from an NPC AI in TR beta, than from most MMO players.

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I know.. i know.. i wanted to

I know.. i know.. i wanted to see what it would look like with a grayish OSX Dock kinda backgrond. ;)

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Izzy wrote:
Izzy wrote:

My design goal is to find a happy medium that will be pleasing to Most Players and still appeal to Artsy MAC users (think Dock tray for the OSX and how people dont complain how wastefull it is to do all that 3D stuff).

The dock tray in OS X is something that is (on my Mac) used rather infrequently, spends something like 99% of its time being hidden, and is only a single row of icons, rather than multiple rows stacked behind each other. In screwdriver terms, that's the difference between a flathead, a phillips and an robertson ... different tools for different needs, even though they all serve the same purpose.


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This is the Matinee Animated

Video: http://youtu.be/hX3a85Mnjj0
This is the Matinee Animated look and feel of the mouse Wheel Scroll (maybe bind Right Control + PageUp and Right Control + PageDown, and for the inspirations tray.. Right Shift + Page Up and Right Shift + PageDown)

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For something that is rarely

For something that is rarely used, or for context-specific reasons is inaccessible, having them rotated back somehow is just fine. For a UI for a game like this, anything that is usable should be in the foreground at all times, ready to be clicked on immediately, with zero lag to be brought forward, including time looking at the screen trying to figure out where your button is.

Major thumbs down to any sort of layered interface like this for power trays.

It could work very nicely in the character creator and areas like that where being able to immediately click on something isn't a big deal. It would be an incredibly bad design for a power tray.

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I hear ya.. but i'm starting

I hear ya.. but i'm starting to like the layered look, just need to move the Middle and Top rows up a bit, so they dont overlay as much. (1 to 2 pixels perhaps)

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Izzy wrote:
Izzy wrote:

I hear ya.. but i'm starting to like the layered look, just need to move the Middle and Top rows up a bit, so they dont overlay as much. (1 to 2 pixels perhaps)

Again, it's pretty, but that takes away from functionality. In the primary UI for a game, functionality MUST have top billing.

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Whatever is decided,

Whatever is decided, customizability is the way to go.

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Just as long as the mechanics

Just as long as the mechanics of the tray is not like DC, the use of the mouse for attacks is unique but it prohibits you from using the mouse to click on the tray. Their chat system is wonky and having to use the F keys , just seems like there is too many things to remember. COH was nice,simple,and usable.

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I would have to say, I know

I would have to say, I know alot of mouse users when using skills, and a 3D menu just doesn't work as well as a 2D one. Too many misclicks possible with 3D, and 2D allows many disabled people to play with only a mouse which is a huge plus.

If the UI is going to be strictly for the costume creator and main menu though, a 3D one would look much better and function just as well.
Here's a quick sketchup of what I'm talking about:
http://hopetitan.deviantart.com/art/UI-Test-420048559
Dark Blue is main titles, Red is primary option, Light Blue is secondary option.

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If there's a way to allow the

If there's a way to allow the total scaling of each tray, I would put my vote on that.
While most people use 1-0 and different key combinations of shift + 1-0, there are a lot of people that rebind keys to better fit the hand. After the loss of CoX, I merged back to Rift. There I have my bars set up and my most used abilities are in the first three slots on the left, on three bars. My less used abilities on the right, and my least used in the middle.

With that said, the trapezoid / pyramid feel is a bit strange looking. I would rather the scaling be smaller for the top two, and just offset them from the x-axis.

I really like the concept of it, and definitely agree with Hopestar that the 3D is amazing for a creation UI.

I do remember a UI on WoW that gave me several different patterns, one I though interesting was a semi circle. If there was a way to arc the power bar, then have it tilt into the foreground and slightly fade, that would let me put toggle abilities there, and have it circle around my health and endurance bars. I really liked, from the video you linked, the Health and blue bar tilted into the background. It was very subtle.

While watching it, I was waiting for the character to touch the display, as if he was truly interacting with it!

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Hmm. No.

Hmm. No.

It's probably the latest fashion? But no.

Gloss?

No.

I didn't like it when the team gui in Coh got updated(!) with the highlights. It makes it less readable. Less clear. I liked the flat simple and solid graphics look of 'old' Coh.

Clean. Simple. Iconic. Elegant.

I call it the 'vector graphics' look.

Azrael.

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Izzy wrote:
Izzy wrote:

I just made a super crude Illustation depicting the Power tray and the Mouse Scroll Wheel idea:
Edit: (slightly better screenshot of the idea)
Here is the Screencast (4 mins) of me failing to clearly express what i want. :(
video: http://youtu.be/ufrlyL2_Fj4
Now that i think about it.. my own preference would be to use Control + Numbers for Row 2, and Shift + Numbers for Row 3. ;)

All very flashy and all. Whizzy bang.

But it's form over substance. Bits are distorted and hidden. No. Just...no.

Have a look at the Coh interface again. ;)

Azrael.

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I need to add in here. I am

I need to add in here. I am a mouse user. I LIKE clean and simple because I can find my power and click on it. I love the clean UI of CoH because it illustrated the K.I.S.S. and that is my advice for this. You don't want to slam users with a learning curve on how to use the UI right off the bat. I see that being an issue here. Also and this is a biggie, in another thread the discussion on how to handle disability access directly impacts this. Too fancy and you lose that flexibility. Colour-blind folks would have fits with this.

Knitting while waiting for THE Beta

C. jejuni
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The form must always follow

The form must always follow the function, even outside of minimalist Bauhaus aesthetics. There is no point to a UI that can not be comfortably navigated.

I like the idea of a UI appearing 3-dimensional, but this can be achieved by putting different parts in different planes (like how a regular analog console has things close to you and less close to you :P) instead of simply tilting them, and tilting them won't work without this anyway, as you probably know yourself that your example picture just looks super awkward with the flatness. And the angle is too wide. I wouldn't go beyond 15° myself, just like grinding a good knife.

mikenovember
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Kuriosity's Kat wrote:
Kuriosity's Kat wrote:

I need to add in here. I am a mouse user. I LIKE clean and simple because I can find my power and click on it. I love the clean UI of CoH because it illustrated the K.I.S.S. and that is my advice for this. You don't want to slam users with a learning curve on how to use the UI right off the bat. I see that being an issue here. Also and this is a biggie, in another thread the discussion on how to handle disability access directly impacts this. Too fancy and you lose that flexibility. Colour-blind folks would have fits with this.

3+ to you Kat!!!

People often confuse look over substance, and can assume that because something 'looks' cool it's going to 'play' cool. All the latest looks are not of much use when it's costing you time in battle. The trick is to balance efficiency, performance, appearance and physical design requirements.

A good KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid) design does this. The more complicated you make it, the 'cooler' you make it, the more you complicate it.

3D designs for example are horrible for anyone whose vision isn't the greatest or wear glasses/contacts. Anyone with depth perception issues, and people with tendencies to color blindness often report headaches or just, not being able to use the product at all.

Scrolling depth based designs are good on paper - but problematic not just to implement, but also for play. In the above example (not to pick on it - it just happens to be here so thought I'd use it as an example) -- the items to the fore front are easy to click, and we're assuming the others are also clickables as we move back to the rear?

There's a lot of room to accidentally click the smaller items. Remember that when players are under attack their visual acuity drops to fractions of a second - often times faster than their physical muscles can manipulate a mouse or keyboard. Hence, when you 'click' and miss - believe it or not you probably didn't. At the moment your eye/brain sent the command to click - it was anticipating your hand would have the mouse there based on visual clues. But the design blended them and sent conflicting data... and fooled your brain which said 'click' at the wrong time.

Alternately - get the images too tight for mouse/keyboard interpretation the same thing can happen to machines which are older or lack the higher resolutions for the distinctions between overlapping tiles.

Bottom line - I love the look, but the design isn't a good user experience, even though logically - you'd think it would be. We (humans) are creatures which have very predatory vision so anything that simulates depth of field to us is something we focus on well. It's just you have to incorporate not just that element - but all the elements going on to see the full picture.

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Function over form in this

Function over form in this instance. Keep it clean, simple and easy to read and interact with. I see very high opportunity for mis-clicking with that kind of button setup for the point and click peeps. I would like to see a nice clean low texture tray with icons that are easy to distinguish. Remember, just because something can be done does not mean it is better or that it is really necessary. I'd really like to see some flat designs too with little to no 3-d effect and less texture in the background.

The main feature of the game is your character and what they are doing, not the action bars and menus. A good interface is integral, but when you get too fancy it becomes distracting as well as frustrating if the interface is hard to read or interact with.

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Just an FYI.

Just an FYI.
Unity adding tilted UI also in an upcoming release.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOX6itCuKOc

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We don't yet know how many

We don't yet know how many casting slots we will have but I'm hoping we see 8 slots and a build swapping tool (controller gamer only here..)

I'd hate to have to scroll through my action bar like i did in CoH

Crowd Control Enthusiast

Izzy
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JayBezz wrote:
JayBezz wrote:

I'd hate to have to scroll through my action bar like i did in CoH

In CoH, i used to use Plus and Minus on the keyboard to get my bottom row to show the one i wanted, if i had no macros setup before-hand. It sure would have been great if i could have just use a combination of CTRL + ALT + Mouse Wheel scrolling while hovering the mouse pointer over any of the rows to switch through them, that way as well. :)

I dont know if Unreal can do this, but I wanted a way to make the 3D planes show Pixel Perfect when in flat 2D. And when the same planes were Tilted 3D, it would still be using the same textures, just changed the textures filter to Bilinear for a smoother texture. Since it would use the same texture for both 2D and 3D tilted looks, you can show an option in the Settings and let the user choose what they want to see. So its no longer one or the other.

And thats what i'm working on now... to prove it could be done... but im doing it in Unity3D, a plugin, as im not too familiar with Unreal to attempt it (might or might not be possible, dont know). Plus, Im not too fond of the old UDK workflow when making small code changes and trying to see the results right away. (newest version is said to have improved a bit in this regard though, but its no longer free)

ex:
I even posted some progress updates here.

I got as far as allowing the user to use an atlas texture (one larger texture with more than one buttons) and allowing them to slice it up to have that button resize-able at runtime (and previewable in the editor)
ex:

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You KNOW the CoT fanbase is

You KNOW the CoT fanbase is rabid when they obsess over the slightest details in their game's development. XD

<==========)===O|TtDd|O===(==========>
My original character profiles!

Izzy
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AAlbusUUmbra wrote:
AAlbusUUmbra wrote:

You KNOW the CoT fanbase is rabid when they obsess over the slightest details in their game's development. XD

I like to think of it as a comment someone made about Heath Ledger, when he was initially cast as The Joker. Allot of fanboys were saying he was Nowhere Near as Good (or close) to Jack Nocolson's Joker.
Heh... it turned out... he was even BETTER! ;D

So i have the same feeling with this... I want to prove a Hybrid approach could be even Better, than a primarily 2D GUI would be on its own. But thats just me. Dog and his bone. ;)

------ Programmy stuff below here. Ignore It if you choose to. :) --------

Side Note:
I got around to adding Text to a flat Plane.. and it looks pixel perfect. :D

some images so far:

Another Side Note:
CoT doesnt have to use this approach. I dont think the Unreal engine can do it (pixel Perfect).
Unity can do it though, and I just like trying out new things... even if others might be on the fence about it.
Maybe someday the Unreal Engine will add support for true Orthographic Cams. Never say Never. At least I hope they do. ;)

... but video is best viewed at 640x360. http://youtu.be/hj-9cgwH1RE ;)

And Clipping isnt too difficult with a shader:

(http://youtu.be/n_vMqosa0h0, best seen at 640x360)

And when a parent group is used as a Clipping Container:

(http://youtu.be/UK7ZeL-LAE4, best seen at 640x360)

And another one: http://youtu.be/kKBUwkOxLAs ;)

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My very first thought... that

My very first thought... that would be so much fun inside the game itself, like your character runs up to a computer panel and needs to hack it by solving a puzzle, that moves like that in 3D, by raising or lowering a pattern of pieces which is actually the code. ( I may hate myself later for suggesting this because I'm so bad at puzzles)

Then you could also just nestle the correct password behind multiple blankets of false headers, for effect maybe or to give programmers a feeling of hacking without actually. Put a timer on it so that you only get so many seconds - based on hacking skill or perhaps you can slow the clock by powering up your super speed, or great intelligence - before the anti-hack program detects you and shuts you out.

You can make this harder in other quests by:
requiring that users type in different words learned from talking to different people to search the database records.
Require that the hero actually have the correct conversation with the correct NPC's before allowing the hero to use said words to gain access. Meaning that your heroes charisma and helpful behavior could influence how much intel they get. Not saying a hero has to be helpful, you could have an adventure where the hero has to infiltrate a gang and thereby do all kinds of bad deeds and tear up the town a bit to earn a spot.
The NPC uses open-ended answers meaning that the player has to search between the lines for the meaning and the correct hacking password.

I stole some of these hacking ideas from the Fallout universe, which I play quite often, all of my responses are suggestions if you can make it even cooler, or more awesome please do so.

2) If you had anything like a helicopter that you had to fly or something really cool and super-techy that heroes could utelize to defend the city or complete a special ops, I could see that.

Okay, a third idea Make it an option to have the groovy UI with floating panels or just regular non-float ones. Maybe when you start the game up and later buried in the control panel options as a check/uncheck box. Different colors and styles might be interesting too, I prefer display purples but that's just me. Some folks might like grays or golds or blues or reds. It just depends on preference, but after playing with 2 solid years of the same UI it DOES get boring, oooh it might be interesting if the UI was randomly selected each time you made a new character and bound specifically to that character, but you could change it up for each one you make. Maybe make it customizable so players could custom it up with their own files? I am looking forward to seeing a chrome and pink crystal one with diamond shaped gems in a diadem, or maybe black gothic with dangling ruby teardrops gems to symbolize blood drops or maybe the fancy panels could unlock after a year of play time. But then I know I'd have to make a super-frilly all white lace panel with little tears and disharmony pulls and runs in it and wrap little bird bones up in it for halloween. But maybe I just have too much imagination :)

More ideas for UI... floating holographic chess boards that players can sit down to and challenge each other in the park? The players would see the full screen view and a minature would appear within the game with players animated to picking up their hands and moving the pieces per move. or perhaps as an emote like /chess to set up a board anywhere? Then others could /watch and be given a list of local chess games Match 1 Hero name vs. Hero name, Match 2 Hero name vs. Hero name. I wonder if you would program checkers and a hero-styled risk in there too. Maybe I'm stretching the boundaries of what UI can do and can't do on that one.

Imaginitive young lady looking for clients, talents are imagining the realistic possibilities of practically anything, and applying new technologies to practical applications in all types of business.

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This is an interesting thread

This is an interesting thread. I think a solution to the UI 3D/2D elements would be to have a slider the starts with a 2D flat plane and morphs that back into a more 3d interface that can be adjusted to give the user their desired effect. So for your raid night character you can have the most ergonomic and efficient interface and for your Man in a super suit role play you can have the immersive 3D display. In all honesty I would trade either for the ability to skin the UI the way that fits my character. My Nega-Magi can be purple and skulls and my steam punk sword master can be brass and gears.

I disagree with those that say we shouldn't do things for the sake of art. We should experiment and try new things especially this early on and we shouldn't suppress or put down those that want to do that. That said I would like to see more of your thoughts on the UI for the character creator. I found that to be a rather difficult thing to deal with and in COT I expect it to be much moreso. COH did a pretty good job at the end and I think that GW2 does an alright job with giving you the ability to see what skin you are about to apply. I'd like to see those two combined and improved. For the CC-App I don't think wide screen is the way to go. I think all the details will be lost in the smallness of it. Also given some of their demonstrations of possibilities I don't know if it will even be feasible to do in an App.

(at)Roxanna - Little Sister - Plutonium Bloom - MilkShakes
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Hi guys new here just have to

Hi guys new here just have to say love what you are doing keep it up

I do have some ideas for your interface. My main concern is organization I want it the way I play a character healer, tank, dps, cc I want abilities, buffs, and use items separate.

Now you can do this with a tool bar type system bar1 bar2 and make it so you can move it around and resize the bar but it takes up space. what if you made the entire screen a gird like arranging icons on a desktop so each power has a bubble. similar to a short cut on your desktop just grab it and put it where you want. This leaves all the space between open to interact with the game no more toolbar in the way. the next thing is make an option to resize the grid/bubble so hire screen resolution can still see them or people with pore eye sight can make them bigger. Have a hot key ability list so you can assign each bubble or a number of them to a key.

Now back to the bar1 bar2 make them so you can move them off your playing area on to another screen, dock able, and auto hide if you would like. keep them exactly like your main screen but a separate window so you can simply drag your bubbles onto them or your chat windows. think about it how would you like your buff abilities to just sit on the side out of the way so you can just move to the side of your playing area and fined them when they are needed. as well if your screen is using individual bubbles your not hitting unused ability space and dying or unable to pick something up or interact with the game because your toolbar is in the way.

I would also like timers on the ability bubbles so you can tell when it will be back. A super hero/villain should know these things. on top of this have them fade or fall back so you can tell when you can't use it. Nothing is more annoying then clicking on an ability and not have it work.

More ideas, make sure you can lock your abilities so you don't accidently move them. Make your layouts savable. For example tank, healer , dps so when you make a new tank you can load your Tank layout into that character layout.

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Heard they're doing cool

Not sure what you guys have in mind for me yet, but I've heard they're doing cool stuff with the latest in web technology nowadays.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/28072275/FunWithCSS3UI/index.html

<cough>CoherentUI</cough>

tbh, I have no idea how efficient this is compared to other options in terms of load on the GPU but it definitely doesn't take a lot of effort on the coding side of it.

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In my opinion, tilted panels

In my opinion, tilted panels are nifty - but might be time spent that could be spent doing something else that would bring the game further along a little bit faster. That being said, since it's basically a volunteer crew, I look at it like I do an impromptu dinner at my house. You'll eat what I cook, and if you don't like it, you don't have to eat it.

The programmer may find tilted panels particularly fun to do, or more interesting - and if that's the case, he/she should feel free to do so. However, it would be nice to have the UI consistent - that is, the same look and feel on every option screen.

Those who have no idea what they are doing have no idea that they don't know what they are doing. - John Cleese

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I think most UI devs would

I think most UI devs would agree that there needs to be a decent use case for it. Adding a little depth to UI can give the perception that you're actually inside some sort or vehicle or suit for instance. Having the option to tilt some of your feedback UI can improve your field of view without losing the information but using it on controls is likely to make things a bit awkward.

The excitement for most of us about all these new options is more about imagining how it could be useful than necessarily implementing just cuz its neato. We get to do that in proof of concepts regardless.

IMO, if you can get all Iron Man about it without hindering the experience, there's no reason not to. It's just not likely you're going to be able to pull that off. But you might find more limited schemes for cruising through translucent menus and content while being on the move that actually work while making the effort.

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Pherdnut wrote:
Pherdnut wrote:

... But you might find more limited schemes for cruising through translucent menus and content while being on the move that actually work while making the effort.

I would have liked that while flying from one end of Independence Port to the other end... while trying to Slot some new dropped Enhancements. ;)

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The only reason I can see for

The only reason I can see for tilted UIs is if it increases the amount of environmental visibility. I'm distinguishing between "field of view" and "environmental visibility" because "field of view" normally applies to the width of the panorama whereas "environmental visibility" is the amount of screen real-estate actually devoted to the view of the environment.

One of the problems I've always had is trying to configure my UI to maximize environmental visibility. I even made most of my toons tiny so that they didn't interfere with my view. Then, of course, comes the problem of teammates blocking my view, but those can be moved around. The UI can't really be--without tilting. The only problem then becomes, as was mentioned before, making the UI remain fully usable while tilted. I use keybinds so it's not as important to me, but for those who click items on their bars, it could become a real problem.

CoyoteShaman

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Unrelated posting:

Unrelated posting:

I think i will custom draw the components inspector panel in Unity like this:

Video: http://youtu.be/JIBX1xGM03E

This should make it look a little nicer. ;D

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Another Unrelated post:

Another Unrelated post:

Video showing my progress with Stylish Text. ;)
http://youtu.be/5vS0YsmEZS4

And...
...made a Vista like Dialog Box with just 4 tiny (mostly 8x8) textures. :)

...or Win XP like dialog box.

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Didn't read this whole thread

Didn't read this whole thread but something came to mind after seeing those in game 3d interface examples.

Modern games have increasing slopes to their learning curves, plus there are always people that need a little extra help navigating the administration aspect of their characters. Seeing thecway that interface seemed to appear as an in game structure got me to thinking that it might be useful to be able to display your interface like that to others in game (limitted of coarse, to friends, party, or invite to view).

If you're helping a friend out you could litterally have your character walk up to their menu, tap their button, and tell them to push it.

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Rootz wrote:
Rootz wrote:

Didn't read this whole thread but something came to mind after seeing those in game 3d interface examples.
Modern games have increasing slopes to their learning curves, plus there are always people that need a little extra help navigating the administration aspect of their characters. Seeing thecway that interface seemed to appear as an in game structure got me to thinking that it might be useful to be able to display your interface like that to others in game (limitted of coarse, to friends, party, or invite to view).
If you're helping a friend out you could litterally have your character walk up to their menu, tap their button, and tell them to push it.

*blink*
*blink*

Sorry, I just had a Foxbat moment there...

But that suggestion is just the sort of ridiculous, insane, genius idea that sort of character would come up with.

Hey, Devs! Do we have a slightly nutty, fourth-wall-breaking, character in the works to do this in the tutorial?

Foradain, Mage of Phoenix Rising.
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If you can't see an image I've posted, please let me know!

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Foradain wrote:
Foradain wrote:

Rootz wrote:
Didn't read this whole thread but something came to mind after seeing those in game 3d interface examples.
Modern games have increasing slopes to their learning curves, plus there are always people that need a little extra help navigating the administration aspect of their characters. Seeing thecway that interface seemed to appear as an in game structure got me to thinking that it might be useful to be able to display your interface like that to others in game (limitted of coarse, to friends, party, or invite to view).
If you're helping a friend out you could litterally have your character walk up to their menu, tap their button, and tell them to push it.

*blink*
*blink*

Scenario:
Your Fiend cant seem to find the Option to Show His Own Name above his toons head.
You instruct him to go to certain menus and to click on certain buttons, but still, s/he doesnt see it.

Thats when you whip out you Chat Command.
/BlinkUI @MyFriendsGlobal "\Menu\Settings\Player Settings\Hide Name"

And s/he sees a clickable link show up in the chat log that says "Click here for Help Finding the Option"
If its a random tell, you can ignore it, and maybe even block 'em if they get Spammy With It. (you know, like: "Jiggy With It." Will Smith!?)

But, if in the Chat Log it shows its from his/her friend, they click on it.. and a Dialog pops up asking if they would like to blink the UI Items so they can see every UI click that they need to do each step of the way (training purposes?), or just Directly open up the Options Dialog (or other, doesnt have to be limited to Dialogs) and Highlight / Blink / Etc... the "Hide Name" Tick-box option.

And the CoT Tutorials could use a similar approach, except the players wont have to click anything in the Chat Log. ;)
There could be a Popup dialog that can be repositioned.. that has Instructional text for each step, and as they move from step to step, internally the /BlinkUI @ThisPlayersGlobal "\HUD\Zone Map\Zoom In" is called. Or some tweaked version of it. ;)

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OK, that would work, too, but

OK, that would work, too, but I still want a fourth-wall-breaking nutcase in the mode of Foxbat or Deadpool to tap on my UI, if the devs can manage it. ^_^

Foradain, Mage of Phoenix Rising.
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If you can't see an image I've posted, please let me know!

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Un-relater:

Un-relater:

Progress on SimpleGUI. What it looks like prototyping a MessageBox.
Takes only 10-15 mins to make one.

video ex: http://youtu.be/3XVb5XgZ0OM

Edit:
..and additional extra handle Tools, plus detection of Mouse Events from the GameView (when not running the game, from the Editor)
video ex: http://youtu.be/9WkuUcipoSk

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No antialiasing?

No antialiasing?

Has anyone seen my mind? It was right here...

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Lin Chiao Feng wrote:
Lin Chiao Feng wrote:

No antialiasing?

This is Unity3D, so the textures can be set to: Point, Bilinear, Trilinear.

But yea, the 3D Planes would also benefit from the 3D AntiAliasing that's already there.
ex: Quality Settings

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Ah, I see now. It's not going

Ah, I see now. It's not going to do much good if the source texture doesn't have enough resolution in the first place.

Has anyone seen my mind? It was right here...

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Unrelated:

Unrelated:

Boring stuff dealing with Event Handling. :(

and a demo: http://youtu.be/Y9Bfvp-0hds

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Fascinating ideas.. It will

Fascinating ideas.. It will be interesting to see how many of these ideas make it into the game.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
My author page at Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/-/e/B000APIPZC?ref_=pe_584750_33951330

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Unrelated:

Unrelated:

Additional boring stuff added, ohh.. I mean, additional Event Handling stuff added. ;D

video here: http://youtu.be/bqoUTbWZfZw but Audio is a little low it seems :{

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regarding 3d versus 2d...I

regarding 3d versus 2d...I prefer 2d. as was mentioned earlier...I do like the GUI in Marvel...all transparent and best off all it's nice an 'clean'.

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Unrelated: Unity GUI plugin:

Unrelated: Unity GUI plugin:

Mouse Dragging status update:

ex: 1st try at Scrolling in a Container

video: https://youtu.be/4nnG-sTljwA (12 mins, low res 640x360, smallest size)

It looks convincing enough :D

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