Discuss: Nearing the End of Pre-Production

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VDG
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Discuss: Nearing the End of Pre-Production

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I'm confused, which picture

I'm confused, which picture is pre-pre-production and which is pre-production?

"A delayed game is eventually good, but a rushed game is forever bad"

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The one with the grass, the

The one with the grass, the top, is our original UE3 prototype. The bottom one with the default brown and the colorful figure is UE4. Understand the prototype was a month+ of work vs a few hours for the second.

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I just think it's a shame

I just think it's a shame that such a terrible fire devastated what was once so beautiful a landscape. Think of the animals that died, and the mudslides the area will now be subject to. :-)

My question is about the respawning: just to be clear, you're talking about players here, not mobs?

**Desperately crossing fingers that mobs won't just appear on top of us**

Spurn all ye kindle.

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Yes, we're talking about

Yes, we're talking about players. Mob respawning is a completely different story.
(I wanted them to show up in your inventory and then burst out of your chest but they shouted me down. No fun, they said.)

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Quote:
Quote:

(I wanted them to show up in your inventory and then burst out of your chest but they shouted me down. No fun, they said.)

That's so evil! It's . .. it's . . .beautiful!

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Okay so no death trap of doom

Okay so no death trap of doom if we get defeated. Sigh, alright.

Well not a big problem really so we go back to the basic "Hospital, Wake, Rez power!" We can live with that.

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warcabbit wrote:
warcabbit wrote:

Yes, we're talking about players. Mob respawning is a completely different story.
(I wanted them to show up in your inventory and then burst out of your chest but they shouted me down. No fun, they said.)

Only if they've had the blue plate special.*



* Song and dance number available only for Kickstarter backers.

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warcabbit
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[quote=RottenLuck
RottenLuck wrote:

Well not a big problem really so we go back to the basic "Hospital, Wake, Rez power!" We can live with that.

Oh, do you think that's what we're going back to?
We can do better than that.

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Darth Fez wrote:
Darth Fez wrote:

warcabbit wrote:
Yes, we're talking about players. Mob respawning is a completely different story.
(I wanted them to show up in your inventory and then burst out of your chest but they shouted me down. No fun, they said.)

Only if they've had the blue plate special.*
* Song and dance number available only for Kickstarter backers.

Is this on? Oh, OK. This is your ship's doctor speaking. If there is anyone aboard who did not have the xenomorph eggs for dinner, and knows how to land a starship, please come to the cockpit at once.

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I'm not sure I understand

I'm not sure I understand exactly what this announcement really means when it comes to respawning. I assume it means you're not going to spend time trying to reinvent an already working wheel that came free with Unreal 4, which sounds good, but I don't think I understand what limitations that poses moving forward or what would have been possible/different if you weren't doing it this way.

Questions:

1. Is it now possible to have in-map jails like CoH had and force people to respawn there?

2. Is it now possible to give people a menu of what they want to do when they get defeated (Use Wakie, Go to Hosp, do nothing and await rez from team, etc)

3. Is it now possible to have self-rez "Rize of the Phoenix" type powers?

4. Are there limitations being imposed on the type of animations and graphics that can be used for respawns?

5. Can you give an example of something that might have been possible if you had done your own homebrew respawn code that is now not possible?

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I'm surprised you guys are

I'm surprised you guys are already wrapping up pre-production!

I want this game so bad I can taste it (I wanted to throw on tights and a cape so bad last night, logged on DCUO, and then after a while just logged off. Nothing fun to do.) BUT, I understand the more time y'all spend on pre-production, the better game can be in the long run.

So... though it hurts me to say it, please, take your time :)!

And, following up on what Radiac was asking, you're talking about the character re-spawning we will have at launch, not saying that there isn't the possibility of going back and adding new coding for types of spawning that didn't come baked into the game later when possible, right?

FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)

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Radiac wrote:
Radiac wrote:

I'm not sure I understand exactly what this announcement really means when it comes to respawning. I assume it means you're not going to spend time trying to reinvent an already working wheel that came free with Unreal 4, which sounds good, but I don't think I understand what limitations that poses moving forward or what would have been possible/different if you weren't doing it this way.
Questions:
1. Is it now possible to have in-map jails like CoH had and force people to respawn there?
2. Is it now possible to give people a menu of what they want to do when they get defeated (Use Wakie, Go to Hosp, do nothing and await rez from team, etc)
3. Is it now possible to have self-rez "Rize of the Phoenix" type powers?
4. Are there limitations being imposed on the type of animations and graphics that can be used for respawns?
5. Can you give an example of something that might have been possible if you had done your own homebrew respawn code that is now not possible?

I'll admit what was specifically said about respawning was a little vague.

But I think the general "take-away" from the post was that even though they started with an "anything will be possible" scope they want to let us know that engineering trade-offs will have to be made in order to actually get a playable game made in a reasonable time. There's really nothing wrong with that - in fact that's pretty much how any software development effort evolves. First you start out brainstorming every pie-in-the-sky thing you want to do, but eventually you settle down to organize your priorities (and fight the battles you need to fight like mentioned in the post).

Bottomline if we end up with a game that incorporates many of the "default" features that UE4 provides I'm sure it'll still be a good game even if it's not exactly as fancy as the Devs originally envisioned it.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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Yeah, I might have slightly

Yeah, I might have slightly derailed the intent by asking about the respawns. Reading it again, I think it was, as you say, just an example of having to make trade-offs. Apologies: I get overexcited when I think the devs are about to give us concrete details on the workings of the game. I just hope that hooks can be left in to keep the possibility open of implementing the cool ideas (on whatever topic) in the future.

Empyrean wrote:

So... though it hurts me to say it, please, take your time :)!

+1

Spurn all ye kindle.

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Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:

But I think the general "take-away" from the post was that even though they started with an "anything will be possible" scope they want to let us know that engineering trade-offs will have to be made in order to actually get a playable game made in a reasonable time.

That's the gist of what I read into the update, as well. I agree that the respawn example was a bit odd, since to me a respawn is a respawn is a respawn. They're always going to be subject to game play and story segregation, so for me the major concern is whether it'll take me five minutes to jump back into the action because the only graveyard (or whatever) was at the other end of the zone.

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When I think of software dev

When I think of software dev projects or any project really, I see these as choices:
1. Cheap (material or man power)
2. Fast
3. Done right

Pick any two.

In this case you are trying to balance any of these and have to make choices to reach your end goal. Thanks for the update post!

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I miss the hospitals so bad.

I miss the hospitals so bad. That was one of my favorite little details. From the sound of it, we'll start off respawning in the street, like in Champions Online, but that's just the default and they fully expect to add at least the hospital function later. In-map jails would be great too, but it sounded like Warcabbit had his own ideas, which I hope he gets to work into the game once they have a solid income pouring in after launch.

"No death, no doom, no anguish can arouse the surpassing despair which flows from a loss of identity." -H.P. Lovecraft

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Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:

Radiac wrote:
I'm not sure I understand exactly what this announcement really means when it comes to respawning. I assume it means you're not going to spend time trying to reinvent an already working wheel that came free with Unreal 4...
...

I'll admit what was specifically said about respawning was a little vague.
But I think the general "take-away" from the post was that even though they started with an "anything will be possible" scope they want to let us know that engineering trade-offs will have to be made in order to actually get a playable game made in a reasonable time. There's really nothing wrong with that - in fact that's pretty much how any software development effort evolves. First you start out brainstorming every pie-in-the-sky thing you want to do, but eventually you settle down to organize your priorities (and fight the battles you need to fight like mentioned in the post).
Bottomline if we end up with a game that incorporates many of the "default" features that UE4 provides I'm sure it'll still be a good game even if it's not exactly as fancy as the Devs originally envisioned it.

Indeed. Being that we haven't seen much, there are very few expectations that need to be reset. No sense in anyone getting wrapped around ye ol' axle 18 months out or whatever.

And I'm sure that wherever possible, MWM won't design themselves into any corners. With that, and assuming a reasonable release schedule, and a steady stable of willing, skilled volunteers (in the "worst" case; a nicely compensated and expert staff in the best case), I think MWM will be very capable of rolling-out ample enhancements over time.

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I like the general visual

I like the general visual style I'm seeing tho.. the lighting effects, the textures and such

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Things are looking good so

Things are looking good so far. Very excited for this game. My Heroes and VIllains have lain dormant for too long.

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I'm so happy! It makes my

I'm so happy! It makes my black heart all aflutter!

I don't get mad, I restructure the laws of quantum physics and resolve the situation with temporal engineering.

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IMO City of Heroes had one of

IMO City of Heroes had one of the best rez options in any MMO you could use a wakey that would stun you for a few secs. and 1/2 HP or the hospital. But the part I loved about CoH over other MMO's was that you didn't get kicked in the nuts with death penaltys like broken armor or redused HP and the one I hate the most having to run back to your dead body (looking at you WoW).

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So, is this ahead, behind, or

So, is this ahead, behind, or right along schedule?

"A delayed game is eventually good, but a rushed game is forever bad"

Please have Scaling decals!

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IndigoShroom wrote:
IndigoShroom wrote:

... the one I hate the most having to run back to your dead body.

Oh yes, corpse runs != fun.

One of the best aspects of the hospital method was that, not only did you not have to return to your body to get your full abilities back, you could actually restock your insps (and even train if you had levelled) before jumping back into the fight. In my book, this opportunity ranks it above games that always rez you on the spot without giving you a choice.

Spurn all ye kindle.

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Cinnder wrote:
Cinnder wrote:

IndigoShroom wrote:
... the one I hate the most having to run back to your dead body.

Oh yes, corpse runs != fun.
One of the best aspects of the hospital method was that, not only did you not have to return to your body to get your full abilities back, you could actually restock your insps (and even train if you had levelled) before jumping back into the fight. In my book, this opportunity ranks it above games that always rez you on the spot without giving you a choice.

Although WoW had the corpse run, you could instead choose to take the debuff and rez at the grave yard.

And if i remember correctly, they still have a couple of quests that you *cannot* do, unless you are already dead to pick it up.

But unlike CoX, dying didn't slow you down in levelling speed, because it didn't deal you XP debt.

Nowadays, the most annoying thing I find with dying in WoW is *travelling back* to where I died, and even then, normally just in the early stages of the games life.

All my own opinion, YMMV.

Wildstar (I should add) has the option to *rez at the spot you died in* (for a fairly large cost) or to rez at one of the "graveyards", which are normally near some NPC's that can help you out. Also, they have the option for ANY player (no matter the players class) to be able to rez you on the spot. No special abilities needed, they just need to be out of combat IIRC.

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desviper wrote:
desviper wrote:

So, is this ahead, behind, or right along schedule?

As mentioned in our January art update, we are a few weeks behind where we wanted to be. The difficulties in getting the 3D software (never have I had such an issue getting someone to take money before, ever) induced the delay. This forced us to change our modelling software vendor ultimately, and the new company, SideFX, has been nothing but helpful and encouraging for us. But, due to the delay, first in getting the software then changing the program requiring some retraining, we did not get art assets as soon as planned for, which caused delays further down the pipeline.

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Murphy's law is a real law of

Murphy's law is a real law of the universe. As real as gravity. It should be in the physics books.

FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)

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Doctor Tyche wrote:
Doctor Tyche wrote:

desviper wrote:
So, is this ahead, behind, or right along schedule?

As mentioned in our January art update, we are a few weeks behind where we wanted to be. The difficulties in getting the 3D software (never have I had such an issue getting someone to take money before, ever) induced the delay. This forced us to change our modelling software vendor ultimately, and the new company, SideFX, has been nothing but helpful and encouraging for us. But, due to the delay, first in getting the software then changing the program requiring some retraining, we did not get art assets as soon as planned for, which caused delays further down the pipeline.

Interesting enough when you guys choose to go from one option with bad support to another. You seem to find companies that are helpful and encouraging. Cry to Unreal, 3D software 1 to SideFX. Guess in MWM second time the charm.

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RottenLuck wrote:
RottenLuck wrote:

Interesting enough when you guys choose to go from one option with bad support to another. You seem to find companies that are helpful and encouraging. Cry to Unreal, 3D software 1 to SideFX. Guess in MWM second time the charm.

I wonder if some aspect of this phenomenon will trickle down to us as customers, what with MWM being our second option after NCSoft...

Spurn all ye kindle.

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Second-ception O.o

Second-ception O.o

"A delayed game is eventually good, but a rushed game is forever bad"

Please have Scaling decals!

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Doctor Tyche wrote:
Doctor Tyche wrote:

desviper wrote:
So, is this ahead, behind, or right along schedule?

As mentioned in our January art update, we are a few weeks behind where we wanted to be. The difficulties in getting the 3D software (never have I had such an issue getting someone to take money before, ever) induced the delay. This forced us to change our modelling software vendor ultimately, and the new company, SideFX, has been nothing but helpful and encouraging for us. But, due to the delay, first in getting the software then changing the program requiring some retraining, we did not get art assets as soon as planned for, which caused delays further down the pipeline.

Thank goodness for SideFX.
Happening to be teaching myself Houdini over the next few months.
Will be cool to see what you guys see.

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My takeaway from the pictures

My takeaway from the pictures: First one took months...second one took hours. This tells me that the investments on the front-end are going to pay off. As much as we all want the game to work well and look good, nobody wants to hear that programming the whole city was super-tedious. If the new engine speeds things up then good for us all!

I remember when Star Wars was cool...a long, long time ago...

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+1

+1

As badly as I want any shred of this game I can get as soon as possible, I know any time spent in the beginning will pay off ten fold in the long run, and I don't want this game to have the spaghetti code issue that CoH and Champions has OR developmental walls or glass ceilings caused by rushing.

A home can only be as sound as it's foundation. And building a proper foundation takes time.

FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)

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Comicsluvr wrote:
Comicsluvr wrote:

My takeaway from the pictures: First one took months...second one took hours. This tells me that the investments on the front-end are going to pay off. As much as we all want the game to work well and look good, nobody wants to hear that programming the whole city was super-tedious. If the new engine speeds things up then good for us all!

It is times like this I wish I had a villainous laugh as good as Segev.....

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warcabbit wrote:
warcabbit wrote:

RottenLuck wrote:
Well not a big problem really so we go back to the basic "Hospital, Wake, Rez power!" We can live with that.

Oh, do you think that's what we're going back to?
We can do better than that.

Ohhh please do tell... :)

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Hi ! I'm about translating

Hi ! I'm about translating this article for www.titanscity.com but the video is not there anymore (or maybe it's a picture ?). Is it possible to put it again ? :)