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Red Warlock
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Discuss: Interview with Red Warlock

Read the original update here: https://cityoftitans.com/content/interview-red-warlock

Feel free to comment on the update below.

Environmental Artist, PR Editor

Huckleberry
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Cool. I very impressed you

Cool. I very impressed you learned the skills just so you could help!


I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
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Let me just say:

Let me just say:

WOW!!!

The city looks amazing.

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Red Warlock wrote:
Red Warlock wrote:

Red: Our lore team requested sky bridges between buildings in Downtown and I’ve been doing some work on those lately but haven’t shared pictures yet, so here’s something new to share:

A sky bridge near Fitzgerald Square.

A series of sky bridges in the dense center of Downtown.

At the center of Downtown, several sky bridges connect high at the top creating a sort of road in the sky to explore, along with side walkways and staircases to secret spots…

Red Warlock, I'm going to have to point out something that may make you want to revise some of those sky bridges, but not all of them.
You ready?

The architectural loading factors look ... wonky ... on some of those skybridges.

To be more specific, when you've got a Post And Lintel structure, you need to architecturally account for the fact that the horizontal Beams are going to want to sag in the middle with an evenly distributed weight.

In medieval times with timber construction, this sagging of the wood framing of upper floors would be quite a problem if the buildings were built "slab sided vertical" like a modern skyscraper ... so instead, what architecture did in medieval times was something called "jettying" which gives a characteristic look to multi-story medieval buildings made with timber, wattle and daub construction. Best resource for understanding this that I can think of for you in this regard (especially if you want to make accurate historical recreations in Titan City outside of the "modern" neighborhoods) is going to be a video made by Shadiversity. Also, I figure this would be useful if you have a "Renaissance Faire" style part of town.

Now, what I'm noticing with your skybridges in the above images ... is that they are BIG FLATS between buildings.
Which makes perfect sense from a 3D computer design perspective (Maya likes big flat stuffs) in terms of ease of construction in a computer (and keeping the polygon counts low).

The problem is ... it doesn't LOOK right.

Yes, the computer can 3D model nice flat slabs of what I presume are rolled steel and the like and you can put those up in the sky and ... there's your (sky)bridge, right?
Walkable surface, nice bit flat space ... what's not to like?
But as "hoo-mans" who live out in the real world, we have an intrinsic sense that (real) architecture doesn't work like that.

For starters, bridges (even roadway bridges) need to have a slight upwards arc to them (so not perfectly flat) in order to help resist the bending force of loaded weight being put onto the bridge (causing it to sag).
We expect to see I-beam load bearing structures under bridges (or skyways) in order to bear the weight of the structure itself plus the traffic that is expected to cross the (sky)bridge(s).

Now, I will grant you a decent level of creativity for your skybridge designs where you've got two layers of BIG FLAT with an elliptical insert between them to help distribute the weight load between them ... because Rule Of Cool.
But then when I take another look at them, I start seeing problems.

Like, for instance ... what kind of traffic is meant to be using these skybridges?
Based on the width alone, they look like they ought to be rated for 2 lane (one each way) vehicle traffic ... meaning "skycar" type stuff, not pedestrian traffic.
Also, given the altitude that a lot of these skybridges are built at, they had better be enclosed, because it's going to be REALLY WINDY up there!
And I wouldn't want to have to use one that is NOT enclosed during a storm of some kind (let alone Hurricane Atlas!). All too easy to imagine civilians getting completely waterlogged and blown off the skybridges in a storm if they're not enclosed.
Ordinary sunny day? Wind up there should still be fast enough (gale force at that altitude) to make it all to easy to blow an unprotected civilian "overboard" to their death if the skybridge isn't enclosed.
And let's try not to think about carrying loose papers between buildings using a skybridge that isn't enclosed, where a single puff of wind could scatter them all over downtown.

So what I would recommend (if you're so inclined) would be to add a bit more of an arch curve to those skybridges, and design them as enclosed spaces (if they aren't already, it's hard to tell with some of them) that are means for pedestrian traffic only ... no vehicles bigger than a Segway (basically an indoors only personal vehicle) or a golf cart (like you see in airports). You can put additional more pronounced arch supporting structural elements under the bridge spans to help distribute the load of their weight into the buildings they are attached to so they don't look (quite so much) like karate boards waiting for a giant (robot) to march up to and karate chop through with ease.

Also, those BIG FLAT skybridges, as is, will have certain "wing-like" properties due to their shape, which would also be problematic from an architectural/mechanical load bearing perspective that ought to be avoided, I'm thinking.

And one last point is that although there have been pedestrian bridges made out of glass in China ... they have this tendency to TERRIFY PEOPLE who cross them, for a variety of psychological reasons (acrophobia for starters). There are plenty of "funny reactions to glass bridge" videos on youtube if you really want to see how debilitating the fear factor can be for ordinary non-super humans.

So I recommend building skybridges with solid/opaque floors and perhaps even crenelations along the sides (so intermittent opaque/clear) while being fully enclosed above, to the sides and below, perhaps being no wider than 6 people abreast walking shoulder to shoulder in a line (so wide enough to pass, but not so wide as to just add structural weight for unneeded width).

Hope that helps.

Also, if you're looking for a ... non-standard pedestrian bridge design ... well, China has got you covered with the simply amazing Ruyi Bridge.


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Red Warlock
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Redlynne wrote:
Redlynne wrote:
Red Warlock wrote:

Red: Our lore team requested sky bridges between buildings in Downtown and I’ve been doing some work on those lately but haven’t shared pictures yet, so here’s something new to share:

A sky bridge near Fitzgerald Square.

A series of sky bridges in the dense center of Downtown.

At the center of Downtown, several sky bridges connect high at the top creating a sort of road in the sky to explore, along with side walkways and staircases to secret spots…

Red Warlock, I'm going to have to point out something that may make you want to revise some of those sky bridges, but not all of them.
You ready?

The architectural loading factors look ... wonky ... on some of those skybridges.

To be more specific, when you've got a Post And Lintel structure, you need to architecturally account for the fact that the horizontal Beams are going to want to sag in the middle with an evenly distributed weight.

In medieval times with timber construction, this sagging of the wood framing of upper floors would be quite a problem if the buildings were built "slab sided vertical" like a modern skyscraper ... so instead, what architecture did in medieval times was something called "jettying" which gives a characteristic look to multi-story medieval buildings made with timber, wattle and daub construction. Best resource for understanding this that I can think of for you in this regard (especially if you want to make accurate historical recreations in Titan City outside of the "modern" neighborhoods) is going to be a video made by Shadiversity. Also, I figure this would be useful if you have a "Renaissance Faire" style part of town.

Now, what I'm noticing with your skybridges in the above images ... is that they are BIG FLATS between buildings.
Which makes perfect sense from a 3D computer design perspective (Maya likes big flat stuffs) in terms of ease of construction in a computer (and keeping the polygon counts low).

The problem is ... it doesn't LOOK right.

Yes, the computer can 3D model nice flat slabs of what I presume are rolled steel and the like and you can put those up in the sky and ... there's your (sky)bridge, right?
Walkable surface, nice bit flat space ... what's not to like?
But as "hoo-mans" who live out in the real world, we have an intrinsic sense that (real) architecture doesn't work like that.

For starters, bridges (even roadway bridges) need to have a slight upwards arc to them (so not perfectly flat) in order to help resist the bending force of loaded weight being put onto the bridge (causing it to sag).
We expect to see I-beam load bearing structures under bridges (or skyways) in order to bear the weight of the structure itself plus the traffic that is expected to cross the (sky)bridge(s).

Now, I will grant you a decent level of creativity for your skybridge designs where you've got two layers of BIG FLAT with an elliptical insert between them to help distribute the weight load between them ... because Rule Of Cool.
But then when I take another look at them, I start seeing problems.

Like, for instance ... what kind of traffic is meant to be using these skybridges?
Based on the width alone, they look like they ought to be rated for 2 lane (one each way) vehicle traffic ... meaning "skycar" type stuff, not pedestrian traffic.
Also, given the altitude that a lot of these skybridges are built at, they had better be enclosed, because it's going to be REALLY WINDY up there!
And I wouldn't want to have to use one that is NOT enclosed during a storm of some kind (let alone Hurricane Atlas!). All too easy to imagine civilians getting completely waterlogged and blown off the skybridges in a storm if they're not enclosed.
Ordinary sunny day? Wind up there should still be fast enough (gale force at that altitude) to make it all to easy to blow an unprotected civilian "overboard" to their death if the skybridge isn't enclosed.
And let's try not to think about carrying loose papers between buildings using a skybridge that isn't enclosed, where a single puff of wind could scatter them all over downtown.

So what I would recommend (if you're so inclined) would be to add a bit more of an arch curve to those skybridges, and design them as enclosed spaces (if they aren't already, it's hard to tell with some of them) that are means for pedestrian traffic only ... no vehicles bigger than a Segway (basically an indoors only personal vehicle) or a golf cart (like you see in airports). You can put additional more pronounced arch supporting structural elements under the bridge spans to help distribute the load of their weight into the buildings they are attached to so they don't look (quite so much) like karate boards waiting for a giant (robot) to march up to and karate chop through with ease.

Also, those BIG FLAT skybridges, as is, will have certain "wing-like" properties due to their shape, which would also be problematic from an architectural/mechanical load bearing perspective that ought to be avoided, I'm thinking.

And one last point is that although there have been pedestrian bridges made out of glass in China ... they have this tendency to TERRIFY PEOPLE who cross them, for a variety of psychological reasons (acrophobia for starters). There are plenty of "funny reactions to glass bridge" videos on youtube if you really want to see how debilitating the fear factor can be for ordinary non-super humans.

So I recommend building skybridges with solid/opaque floors and perhaps even crenelations along the sides (so intermittent opaque/clear) while being fully enclosed above, to the sides and below, perhaps being no wider than 6 people abreast walking shoulder to shoulder in a line (so wide enough to pass, but not so wide as to just add structural weight for unneeded width).

Hope that helps.

Also, if you're looking for a ... non-standard pedestrian bridge design ... well, China has got you covered with the simply amazing Ruyi Bridge.

Lots of great ideas there for me to think about. The bridges are newly placed and I am still working on potential additions/reworking on some of them to enhance the look, so I appreciate the ideas to think of how they can be improved to look even more spectacular and enhance realism...

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Red Warlock
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Wiked Rolf wrote:
Wiked Rolf wrote:

Let me just say:

WOW!!!

The city looks amazing.

Thank you very much - can't wait for you to see it hopping from rooftop to rooftop!

Environmental Artist, PR Editor

Red Warlock
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Huckleberry wrote:
Huckleberry wrote:

Cool. I very impressed you learned the skills just so you could help!

Thank you Huckleberry - I have always had a lot of art in my life from an early age, but kind of went a different professional route working in government and politics... I actually started taking classes because I felt like I was missing art in my life, and now, I'm absolutely loving this change in direction for me. It's really exhilarating for me to participate in the creation of something like this, especially working with such a great team!

Environmental Artist, PR Editor

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We have "Sky Bridges" in

We have "Sky Bridges" in Calgary. We call them +15 and +30's. They do have a slight arch to them, just not as exaggerated as the photos presented here.

Calgary suffers from rapid and sometimes extreme weather changes, so they were built as a way to get from office to office during such weather events.

We even have one that is as wide as the two buidings it is connecting and has shops inside of it.

It even has its own Wikipedia page dedicated to it. Just look up "+15 Calgary".

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Huckleberry wrote:
Huckleberry wrote:

Cool. I very impressed you learned the skills just so you could help!

Ditto!

I really like the way the city is shaping up. It has a slightly futuristic look, but overall it feels very natural, which can be rare in games.

Will there be roof access doors from the ground for non-flying characters (as there were on Goldside in the old game)?

P.S. Ha -- on Duolingo just now I got the rather appropriate sentence 'The district is in the zone.' :-D

Spurn all ye kindle.

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Red Warlock wrote:
Red Warlock wrote:

Lots of great ideas there for me to think about. The bridges are newly placed and I am still working on potential additions/reworking on some of them to enhance the look, so I appreciate the ideas to think of how they can be improved to look even more spectacular and enhance realism...

You might also want to look at other real-world Skybridges, because they often have to accommodate swaying in tall buildings, because of those rough winds at higher altitudes.
There's no bridge between them, but the Century Plaza Towers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Century_Plaza_Towers have been known to trigger seasickness from the not-so-subtle movement.

Be Well!
Fireheart

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Thanks to Red Warlock for the

Thanks to Red Warlock for the continued updates and overall hard work on the game. 🙂

Fireheart wrote:

There's no bridge between them, but the Century Plaza Towers have been known to trigger seasickness from the not-so-subtle movement.

I've always hated being in tall buildings IRL due to the "swaying" caused by the wind. It certainly didn't help that I was once stuck in a tall hotel during a Tokyo earthquake...

So it's probably semi-ironic that I mostly favor flyers in computer games and that I got a Mogul building in CoT that'll be among the tallest buildings in the game.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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Awesome skybridges!

Awesome skybridges!

I once visited the Petronas Twin Towers skybridge with two colleagues. One chickened out at the last minute but we convinced him we had a meeting to get to on the other side. He ran, sprinted, down the middle of the bridge and clung to the door handle at the other end. It all looked very funny. But we didn't have a pass to the door at the other end, and we had to return the way he came. He sprinted like a man possessed back to the first tower. When we got inside he let us know he was morbidly terrified of heights and just didn't want to tell us. It all seemed a bit hard to believe.

Once he got back to the ground he was absolutely drenched in sweat. We pointed back up to the skybridge to show him where he had been. Looking up, he instantly collapsed spreadeagled clutching the concrete. Only when he made that audible splat sound did we begin to comprehend. How he ever managed to go as far as he did I'll never know. Truly heroic.

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