Announcements

Please do not use Photobucket to host your images on this site. They will not appear for other users but instead will give an error image and a directive to go to:
http://photobucket.com/p500/
For these images to show up it would require us to pay a premium account fee of $399.00 USD/year or our users to set up paid accounts of $99/year for this service to view these images.
We will be removing all linked images to that site and we suggest you use https://imgur.com/ or other similar site instead.

Watch this space for important information on planned twitch streams, updates and more

Discuss: How it's Made: Weighting the model

93 posts / 0 new
Last post
Shadow Elusive
Shadow Elusive's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 days 18 hours ago
Developerkickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 01/10/2013 - 09:38
Discuss: How it's Made: Weighting the model

--------------------------

Community Manager
desviper
desviper's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 hours 55 min ago
11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 03/10/2014 - 00:55
A bonus update! yee!

A bonus update! yee!

"A delayed game is eventually good, but a rushed game is forever bad"

Please have Scaling decals!

Avatar by MikeNovember

Project_Hero
Project_Hero's picture
Offline
Last seen: 9 hours 8 min ago
Joined: 10/09/2014 - 11:21
I enjoy seeing the different

I enjoy seeing the different body types that can be achieved.

Grimfox
Grimfox's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 12 hours ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 08/05/2014 - 10:17
That was fun to see. I'd like

That was fun to see. I'd like to see some more body morph gifs. See some more of the possibilities. And see some costuming.

(at)Roxanna - Little Sister - Plutonium Bloom - MilkShakes
Triumph
Guardian
Virtue

Dev Tracker: http://cityoftitans.com/forum/fixing-dev-digest
Dev Comments: https://cityoftitans.com/forum/dev-comments

Cinnder
Cinnder's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 hours 46 min ago
Gunterkickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 08/26/2013 - 16:24
Thanks for the extra update.

Thanks for the extra update. It's fascinating to see how much a program has to be taught about how the human body actually works.

I love the fact that we can have the idealised comic book body or any of a sizable range of other types. Things are looking really good, MWM!

Spurn all ye kindle.

desviper
desviper's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 hours 55 min ago
11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 03/10/2014 - 00:55
Oh yeah, looking good on the

Oh yeah, looking good on the emaciated to lots-to-love espectrum ;)

"A delayed game is eventually good, but a rushed game is forever bad"

Please have Scaling decals!

Avatar by MikeNovember

Cobalt Azurean
Cobalt Azurean's picture
Offline
Last seen: 12 hours 4 min ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/03/2013 - 16:39
A definite improvement to the

A definite improvement to the models. Nice job!

Empyrean
Empyrean's picture
Offline
Last seen: 7 hours 13 min ago
11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 03/16/2014 - 07:51
Great work! I can't wait to

Great work! I can't wait to start costuming in the CC!

FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)

Scott Jackson
Offline
Last seen: 2 hours 21 min ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/20/2013 - 20:13
Good to see the amount of

Good to see the amount of effort being put into the models' movements...the high quality character generator is inching closer to reality!

Interdictor
Interdictor's picture
Offline
Last seen: 7 hours 5 min ago
11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 08/22/2013 - 05:26
Looks really good guys. Man -

Looks really good guys. Man - I can't wait for the avatar builder - if it's as good as we all hope it could be - that's half the game right there! Well - maybe not half, but I'm definitely gong to be spending a lot of time in there I think.

warcabbit
warcabbit's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 week 1 day ago
Developer11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 12/06/2012 - 17:39
You may want to look at about

You may want to look at about 15 minutes in for some of the first looks at the builder. Wiring it up is taking forrreeever especially since we had to tear it out.
In to what? Oh. Check the article again - there's a video now!

Project Lead

desviper
desviper's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 hours 55 min ago
11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 03/10/2014 - 00:55
The video being the twitch

The video being the twitch stream?

"A delayed game is eventually good, but a rushed game is forever bad"

Please have Scaling decals!

Avatar by MikeNovember

warcabbit
warcabbit's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 week 1 day ago
Developer11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 12/06/2012 - 17:39
Yes indeed!

Yes indeed!

Project Lead

warcabbit
warcabbit's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 week 1 day ago
Developer11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 12/06/2012 - 17:39
Scaling decals you say.

Scaling decals you say. (watches twitch)

Project Lead

desviper
desviper's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 hours 55 min ago
11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 03/10/2014 - 00:55
CONFIRMED?!?!?! :p

CONFIRMED?!?!?! :p

"A delayed game is eventually good, but a rushed game is forever bad"

Please have Scaling decals!

Avatar by MikeNovember

Tannim222
Tannim222's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 hours 29 min ago
Developer11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 01/16/2013 - 12:47
desviper wrote:
desviper wrote:

CONFIRMED?!?!?! :p

Des, check the twitch vid around the 24 minute mark..


I don't use a nerf bat, I have a magic crowbar!
- Combat Mechanic -
Tech Team.
desviper
desviper's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 hours 55 min ago
11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 03/10/2014 - 00:55
Yeah, I'm being silly, but I

Yeah, I'm being silly, but I'm still hoping they can be overlain.

"A delayed game is eventually good, but a rushed game is forever bad"

Please have Scaling decals!

Avatar by MikeNovember

Drone Keeper
Offline
Last seen: 1 week 5 days ago
Joined: 06/17/2015 - 12:51
Is it just me or is the knee

Is it just me or is the single knee bend gif basically the same before and after? What am I missing?

Go City of Titans!

Nadira
Offline
Last seen: 2 months 3 weeks ago
11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 01/01/2014 - 13:25
Drone Keeper wrote:
Drone Keeper wrote:

Is it just me or is the single knee bend gif basically the same before and after? What am I missing?

At extreme bending (over 150 degrees) the overlapping muscles of the upper and lower leg caused deforming of the side(s) of the knee joint.

All these fixes are simulating what happens with a real body when you bend it. The volume has to go somewhere since in reality it can not overlap other body parts. That means the mesh must allow for a smooth transition between the various endpoints, and you need to have the morph targets rigged to control the deforming with the bending(*). Unlike dedicated programs like Poser and Daz Studio (or their more expensive commercial counterparts) a game engine is not set up to add such morphs on the fly and as needed, and these things take a fair amount of memory and are not computationally cheap, so rigging and weighing meshes in an efficient way is very much a rare art.

(* at its simplest a morph defines a group of points of the mesh and assigns a weighted factor by which they move with a sliding value (e.g. moving the points further to the side the bigger the value gets). This value is then linked to some kind of slider. This can be a body shape slider at character creation (e.g. the infamous boob slider) or the bend angle of a joint as is shown in this update.
I don't know how complex the morphs can be in the unreal 4 engine. This determines if you can achieve with one morph complex results like compressing and moving sideways of the muscle part of the mesh when the bend angle gets acute, or if you need two or three different morphs controlled by the same slider. Of course it also matters if the developers want to show the way muscles contract and relax during an animation cycle. They may want to put their processor cycles and resources to other uses.)

Cyclops
Cyclops's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 43 min ago
11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 04/10/2015 - 17:24
With every update I get more

With every update I get more excited. Thanks Guys!

Beeker
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 17 hours ago
Joined: 04/06/2015 - 17:30
Wonderful update. Thank you.

Wonderful update. Thank you. Seems to be a versatile process given the problem of multiple body types and gender contributions to the basic shape. Does this extend to other physical affects where musculature may change how the body morphs differentially like falling, jogging, getting hit/blasted in the gut etc?
I'm assuming the shown range of body types will be offered in the final game. Personally, the greater the range the better. Keep up the great work!

Mind-Freeze
Mind-Freeze's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 hours 19 min ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 11/01/2013 - 04:28
Honey I’m cheating on you

Honey I’m cheating on you
What ?!! Who is she !!!
Her name is maiden America she lives in Titan City
Frying pan to the head .........

ThunderCAP
Offline
Last seen: 15 hours 47 min ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 09/13/2013 - 01:24
I love the jump and fly

I love the jump and fly animations already, there are a few imperfections but it's already so high there in quality and very fun to see, I want to use them already!

The superspeed-run still needs some comics love instead, for now it seems just a normal running animation accelerated (and probably it is just that), instead I expect some more cool movement of the arms and a body more inclined forward.
I think this image is perfect to make you feel what I imagine for the superspeed animation (precisely, the hands in that "cutting" way, the arms and head position, horizontal body position instead of vertical, all of it):

EDIT ---> I made a copy of this post in the proper discussion here: https://cityoftitans.com/comment/135181#comment-135181

Darth Fez
Darth Fez's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 week 4 days ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 09/20/2013 - 07:53
Thanks for setting up these

Thanks for setting up these GIFs to go with the update. This helps to highlight that "making the sausage" isn't all glam videos and particle effects. Such updates are always good reminder of the amount of work you guys do. Keep it up!

- - - - -
Hail Beard!

Support trap clowns for CoT!

Lothic
Lothic's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 hours 17 min ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/02/2013 - 00:27
desviper]Oh yeah, looking
desviper wrote:

Oh yeah, looking good on the emaciated to lots-to-love espectrum ;)

Yes it was cool to see, especially that gif at the very end of the update. I have absolutely nothing against being able to make the classic "Olympian ideal" where it comes to perfect looking superheroes in CoT. I like Superman and Wonder Woman as much as anyone. But it'll be interesting to be able to make characters without those perfect body proportions. Characters who are a little "chubby" or "frail" looking will greatly expand the type of characters we'll be able to make. After all there's no law that says people who have superpowers must -also- be super good looking. ;)

Nadira wrote:

the infamous boob slider

Infamous? Why would such things need to be labelled as "infamous"?

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

Mind-Freeze
Mind-Freeze's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 hours 19 min ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 11/01/2013 - 04:28
I agree can’t wait to have my

I agree can’t wait to have my 500 pound super villain Pound Cake !!!

Rigel
Rigel's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 18 hours ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/09/2013 - 07:01
ThunderCAP wrote:
ThunderCAP wrote:

I love the jump and fly animations already, there are a few imperfections but it's already so high there in quality and very fun to see, I want to use them already!
The superspeed-run still needs some comics love instead, for now it seems just a normal running animation accelerated (and probably it is just that), instead I expect some more cool movement of the arms and a body more inclined forward.
I think this image is perfect to make you feel what I imagine for the superspeed animation (precisely, the hands in that "cutting" way, the arms and head position, horizontal body position instead of vertical, all of it):

EDIT ---> I made a copy of this post in the proper discussion here: https://cityoftitans.com/comment/135181#comment-135181

As long as we aren't forced to look like Leo and Kate on the bow of the Titanic when we run, like in CO, I'll be happy.

desviper
desviper's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 hours 55 min ago
11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 03/10/2014 - 00:55
Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:

desviper wrote:
Oh yeah, looking good on the emaciated to lots-to-love espectrum ;)
Yes it was cool to see, especially that gif at the very end of the update. I have absolutely nothing against being able to make the classic "Olympian ideal" where it comes to perfect looking superheroes in CoT. I like Superman and Wonder Woman as much as anyone. But it'll be interesting to be able to make characters without those perfect body proportions. Characters who are a little "chubby" or "frail" looking will greatly expand the type of characters we'll be able to make. After all there's no law that says people who have superpowers must -also- be super good looking. ;)

I'm looking forward to actually emaciated zombies ;)

"A delayed game is eventually good, but a rushed game is forever bad"

Please have Scaling decals!

Avatar by MikeNovember

Nadira
Offline
Last seen: 2 months 3 weeks ago
11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 01/01/2014 - 13:25
Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:

Nadira wrote:
the infamous boob slider
Infamous? Why would such things need to be labelled as "infamous"?

Infamous because every time it is brought up in any (games) discussion it leads to heated arguments?

But if you want a less divisive reason, it is because I have yet to find a game where it does do anything than crudely scaling the boobs part of the mesh, leading to quite uncanny valley results by the time you get to the C+ sizes. (of course, to do it moderately well shapewise you would need at least four distinct morphs, and then you would cause some pretty ugly deforming in the texture of the clothing as it is forced through those same morphs)

In other words, it is infamous because I have yet to see a game that has implemented it even remotely well

(and yes, a slight feminist sidestep, it doesn't help that most games start with C as the smallest size and go all the way up to KK but fail to take into account how dangling that much volume and easily deformable mass from a single ligament is going to affect the shape. I am hoping that MWM will do better, but given the constraints the modellers have to work with I am not optimistic that they can do much to improve things)

Project_Hero
Project_Hero's picture
Offline
Last seen: 9 hours 8 min ago
Joined: 10/09/2014 - 11:21
Mind-Freeze wrote:
Mind-Freeze wrote:

I agree can’t wait to have my 500 pound super villain Pound Cake !!!

I'll join you with mine "Girth Quake"!

On another note I hope we get some of these body types as presets, so those of us who don't want to fiddle a bunch with sliders can just pick from a list.

Also also! I hope we can have some decent looking teen-hero body types!

Cyclops
Cyclops's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 43 min ago
11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 04/10/2015 - 17:24
Nadira wrote:
Nadira wrote:

(e.g. the infamous boob slider)

The greatest invention of all time!

Dark Ether
Dark Ether's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 hours 53 min ago
kickstarter
Joined: 10/03/2013 - 16:26
(No subject)

(insert pithy comment here)

Mind-Freeze
Mind-Freeze's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 hours 19 min ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 11/01/2013 - 04:28
We can do a super villain

We can do a super villain group called Global Glutten ! Project hero :-)

Project_Hero
Project_Hero's picture
Offline
Last seen: 9 hours 8 min ago
Joined: 10/09/2014 - 11:21
Mind-Freeze wrote:
Mind-Freeze wrote:

We can do a super villain group called Global Glutten ! Project hero :-)

League of Super Gluttony

And their battle cry can be "You're big boned now!"

Lothic
Lothic's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 hours 17 min ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/02/2013 - 00:27
Nadira wrote:
Nadira wrote:

Lothic wrote:
Nadira wrote:
the infamous boob slider
Infamous? Why would such things need to be labelled as "infamous"?

Infamous because every time it is brought up in any (games) discussion it leads to heated arguments?
But if you want a less divisive reason, it is because I have yet to find a game where it does do anything than crudely scaling the boobs part of the mesh, leading to quite uncanny valley results by the time you get to the C+ sizes. (of course, to do it moderately well shapewise you would need at least four distinct morphs, and then you would cause some pretty ugly deforming in the texture of the clothing as it is forced through those same morphs)
In other words, it is infamous because I have yet to see a game that has implemented it even remotely well
(and yes, a slight feminist sidestep, it doesn't help that most games start with C as the smallest size and go all the way up to KK but fail to take into account how dangling that much volume and easily deformable mass from a single ligament is going to affect the shape. I am hoping that MWM will do better, but given the constraints the modellers have to work with I am not optimistic that they can do much to improve things)

Well I certainly wouldn't argue that many (if any?) games have completely perfected the implementation of breast modelling/physics yet but your history of reflexively negative replies to this subject area implies that you think no one will ever figure it out. I simply find that mindset sad and defeatist.

Do I think MWM will be the first game to completely "figure it out" and provide us a completely realistic level of breast modelling and/or physics? Probably not. But everything we've been told and shown by the Devs of this game so far suggests they will at least be making a good attempt at it. Case in point even CoH had it where the smallest size you could be was roughly a C-cup; at least MWM have stated they'll try to allow for a reasonable degree of "flat chestedness" which I actually approve of.

Perhaps we'll both live long enough for somebody to finally create a game that we could -both- agree handles all the aspects of natural breast implementation in a sane and reasonable manner. I simply believe it's only a matter of time.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

harpospoke
harpospoke's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 months 4 weeks ago
kickstarter
Joined: 10/09/2013 - 00:13
Very nice!

Very nice!

Kinda funny that the possibility of spending hours creating a costume in CoH is going to be expanded in CoT with all the choice in body type. I could see a comical scenario where the game is opened and all the zones are empty for the first day as we all create characters. The first people to finish with the simpler costumes will walk around calling out, "Hello?....anyone here?"

What a great problem to have.

Project_Hero
Project_Hero's picture
Offline
Last seen: 9 hours 8 min ago
Joined: 10/09/2014 - 11:21
harpospoke wrote:
harpospoke wrote:

Very nice!
Kinda funny that the possibility of spending hours creating a costume in CoH is going to be expanded in CoT with all the choice in body type. I could see a comical scenario where the game is opened and all the zones are empty for the first day as we all create characters. The first people to finish with the simpler costumes will walk around calling out, "Hello?....anyone here?"
What a great problem to have.

If the character creator gets released before the game folks might have their characters mostly finished before even going in. Then it's just a case of selecting archetype, powers, hitting load, then hopping in.

But yes, it would be hilarious to have the majority of players willingly stuck in the character creator on launch day.

Mind-Freeze
Mind-Freeze's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 hours 19 min ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 11/01/2013 - 04:28
What!?? And have Dr Tyche

What!?? And have Dr Tyche causing havoc in the city playing yodeling music while people scream covering their ears !

AxerJ
Offline
Last seen: 2 months 5 days ago
Joined: 03/24/2016 - 19:10
Flight and superjump look

Flight and superjump look great! You guys look like youre doing well =] I really like the city density and the classic city aesthetic.

Lothic
Lothic's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 hours 17 min ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/02/2013 - 00:27
Project_Hero wrote:
Project_Hero wrote:

harpospoke wrote:
Very nice!
Kinda funny that the possibility of spending hours creating a costume in CoH is going to be expanded in CoT with all the choice in body type. I could see a comical scenario where the game is opened and all the zones are empty for the first day as we all create characters. The first people to finish with the simpler costumes will walk around calling out, "Hello?....anyone here?"
What a great problem to have.
If the character creator gets released before the game folks might have their characters mostly finished before even going in. Then it's just a case of selecting archetype, powers, hitting load, then hopping in.
But yes, it would be hilarious to have the majority of players willingly stuck in the character creator on launch day.

The working plan we've been told by the Devs is that the costume creator will be a standalone app that'll be released many months before the game itself. I imagine one of the many reasons for that is to avoid the "bottleneck" of everyone spending hours (days?) at game launch just creating their characters instead of playing the game. ;)

But it will be interesting to realize that there will probably still be people out there who will choose to spend dozens (or hundreds) of hours designing their costumes before they've spent a single minute "playing" the game on launch day. That in and of itself will be kind of hilarious/amazing. ;)

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

Kiyori Anoyui
Kiyori Anoyui's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 month 2 weeks ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/10/2013 - 11:03
I will definitely be spending

I will definitely be spending hours upon hours in the costume creator. If we (could) have the ability to share, like/rate, modify share files, or even co-create an outfit.... Game Changer!

The Carnival of Light in the Phoenix Rising
"We never lose our demons, we only learn to live above them." - The Ancient One

Avatar by lilshironeko

Lothic
Lothic's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 hours 17 min ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/02/2013 - 00:27
Kiyori Anoyui wrote:
Kiyori Anoyui wrote:

I will definitely be spending hours upon hours in the costume creator. If we (could) have the ability to share, like/rate, modify share files, or even co-create an outfit.... Game Changer!

Well once again the Devs have already told us the costume creator will allow us to save "costume files" and "body slider setting" files separately. I would think people will be able to share such files to do pretty much everything you said here. ;)

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

Myri
Myri's picture
Offline
Last seen: 11 hours 30 min ago
Joined: 04/10/2014 - 01:18
thank god for being able to

thank god for being able to save costume files. I have no doubt that like many, I will spend hours tweaking body and costume setting til they're just right.

If small things were meant to live, they'd have bigger teeth or faster feet.

Protect the pack kid, no matter how much it hurts. If everyone else in the pack is safe, you can carry on or die knowing you've done your duty. - Fanfiction

Lothic
Lothic's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 hours 17 min ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/02/2013 - 00:27
Myri wrote:
Myri wrote:

thank god for being able to save costume files. I have no doubt that like many, I will spend hours tweaking body and costume setting til they're just right.

Well if you think about it a standalone costume creator app would be of fairly limited usefulness if it didn't let you save off your work, especially if that app might end up existing for many months -before- the game itself launches.

But the truly revolutionary thing is going to be the ability to save off body slider settings separately from any costume information. CoH only had one type of "costume" save file that combined costume and body slider info into one big file. By keeping these types of data separated you can do all sorts of things like provide Supergroup members with a "group costume" save file they can instantly use on their own characters without worrying about their unique body slider settings or make "physical clone" characters by re-using body slider files for multiple characters.

To me having separated costume and body slider save files is by itself a "top five" improvement over CoH. ;)

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

Project_Hero
Project_Hero's picture
Offline
Last seen: 9 hours 8 min ago
Joined: 10/09/2014 - 11:21
Hopefully sharing costume

Hopefully sharing costume files can be something that can be done in game. This would help those who have a uniform for their super team. Maybe having costume displays in a group base could handle that? Having costume displays period would be nice. Just manikins that you can load a costume upon, then visitors would be able to click it to download the costume file. I have no idea how much work that might be.

Either way it'd be nice to get all bat cave in your bases.

Lothic
Lothic's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 hours 17 min ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/02/2013 - 00:27
Project_Hero wrote:
Project_Hero wrote:

Hopefully sharing costume files can be something that can be done in game. This would help those who have a uniform for their super team. Maybe having costume displays in a group base could handle that? Having costume displays period would be nice. Just manikins that you can load a costume upon, then visitors would be able to click it to download the costume file. I have no idea how much work that might be.

Yeah I'd have to think being able to share either costume or body slider files with other players in-game would need to be possible. Not everyone's going to want to email those things to each other outside of the game. The idea of using in-game mannequins as a way to "upload" and "download" these files to other players is a good idea.

People have been wanting "costume mannequins" for bases since CoH and it doesn't really seem like it would be too hard to implement for CoT. They'd basically just be static male or female body models (just like the PCs are using) and all you'd need is a way (via a simple GUI) to click on them to either "load" costume files on them or "copy" files off of them. They might need some "ownership flags" so only the right people can either edit them or copy files from them but that doesn't seem too difficult either. Owners of mannequins could make them so that only certain people can copy from them (i.e. Supergroup only) or make them totally open so that anyone could copy from them. I'll bet they could even provide "public mannequins" in the clothing stores so that random players can use them to freely trade costume files to each other.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

ThunderCAP
Offline
Last seen: 15 hours 47 min ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 09/13/2013 - 01:24
Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:

Project_Hero wrote:
Hopefully sharing costume files can be something that can be done in game. This would help those who have a uniform for their super team. Maybe having costume displays in a group base could handle that? Having costume displays period would be nice. Just manikins that you can load a costume upon, then visitors would be able to click it to download the costume file. I have no idea how much work that might be.
Yeah I'd have to think being able to share either costume or body slider files with other players in-game would need to be possible. Not everyone's going to want to email those things to each other outside of the game. The idea of using in-game mannequins as a way to "upload" and "download" these files to other players is a good idea.
People have been wanting "costume mannequins" for bases since CoH and it doesn't really seem like it would be too hard to implement for CoT. They'd basically just be static male or female body models (just like the PCs are using) and all you'd need is a way (via a simple GUI) to click on them to either "load" costume files on them or "copy" files off of them. They might need some "ownership flags" so only the right people can either edit them or copy files from them but that doesn't seem too difficult either. Owners of mannequins could make them so that only certain people can copy from them (i.e. Supergroup only) or make them totally open so that anyone could copy from them. I'll bet they could even provide "public mannequins" in the clothing stores so that random players can use them to freely trade costume files to each other.

All of this would be great. Maybe the simple act of placing in the right mannequin should be enough to decide who will be able to copy the costume/sliders from it.

Public Shop -> All players will be able to copy it
Supergroup Base -> Only Guild members will be able to copy it, since they're the only one who can enter the base

There is no need for a place with "Friends-only", if you don't trust your SG it's time to change SG ^^ imho. Also, if you want to share with one person only, you may share the costume for a few seconds in an empty place, either Public or SGbase, and delete it afterwards .

No "settings" needed, you just decide where to put your costume and for how long (by simply removing it when you feel so or another person does that), and it's done directly via gameplay and intuitive.

Project_Hero
Project_Hero's picture
Offline
Last seen: 9 hours 8 min ago
Joined: 10/09/2014 - 11:21
In CoX you could enter the SG

In CoX you could enter the SG bases of those you were teamed with, and coalition members. So just because it's in a base won't automatically make it SG only.

Amerikatt
Amerikatt's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 weeks 2 days ago
11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 09/27/2013 - 08:54
Nomtastic work, my merry

Nomtastic work, my merry minions!

I was intrigued by the "Meteors" logo. I assume that is a basketball team. Not sure about the name, though. Maybe it is supposed to be an allusion to the Shivan invasion of my beloved Galaxy City?!

Lothic wrote:

But it'll be interesting to be able to make characters without those perfect body proportions. Characters who are a little "chubby" or "frail" looking will greatly expand the type of characters we'll be able to make. After all there's no law that says people who have superpowers must -also- be super good looking. ;)

I concur! Now we can have Dumb Bunny, Merryman, *and* The Blimp in the same game!

*rawrs*

Just a cat from another star!
Lothic
Lothic's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 hours 17 min ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/02/2013 - 00:27
ThunderCAP wrote:
ThunderCAP wrote:

There is no need for a place with "Friends-only", if you don't trust your SG it's time to change SG ^^ imho. Also, if you want to share with one person only, you may share the costume for a few seconds in an empty place, either Public or SGbase, and delete it afterwards.

Project_Hero wrote:

In CoX you could enter the SG bases of those you were teamed with, and coalition members. So just because it's in a base won't automatically make it SG only.

For things like this I usually believe in the K.I.S.S. principle. I really only brought up the "ownership flag" thing in case the Devs thought that would be necessary. Ideally as ThunderCAP said maybe there would be no need to make the idea any more complicated than it needs to be.

So with that said any mannequins that exist in a base (SG or player owned) could be designed so that only people who have "build privileges" in that base could change what costumes the mannequins are wearing. As far as a "public mannequin" goes I suppose we can simply rely on people not griefing each other too much because if anyone could change such a mannequin then a "naughty" person could potentially keep overwriting the mannequin and make it a pain for legitimate users to use it properly. TBH I wouldn't see that being a major problem regardless.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

Fireheart
Fireheart's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 hours 2 min ago
11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/05/2013 - 13:45
I like the idea of being able

I like the idea of being able to copy off of a mannequin Much better than a suggestion I saw for being able to copy off of a PC.

Be Well!
Fireheart

Lothic
Lothic's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 hours 17 min ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/02/2013 - 00:27
Fireheart wrote:
Fireheart wrote:

I like the idea of being able to copy off of a mannequin Much better than a suggestion I saw for being able to copy off of a PC.

I remember that suggestion and now that I mentally compare the two I also favor the "mannequin method".

When a player manually "uploads" a costume file to a mannequin they are giving their implicit permission for someone else to copy it from the mannequin. It provides a level of control between the "sharer" and "sharee". It also cuts down on the potential for network griefing because if you could constantly share costumes between two individual PCs those two PCs could clog the network traffic in their local area. Having mannequins organizes the costume data "uploads" and "downloads" to specific times and places.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

Project_Hero
Project_Hero's picture
Offline
Last seen: 9 hours 8 min ago
Joined: 10/09/2014 - 11:21
Something that could also be

Something that could also be done with the manikin idea is if there was ever official costume contests then the winners could have their costumes displayed in this game's equivalent to Icon (provided there is one).

Something else neat that could be done is have some one or some ones create a costume contest SG where they could then have a hall of winners with costumes from every contest they've held. Make manikin public, player uploads, change manikin to private. Display.

Also it'd be a great thing for anyone playing a legacy hero, or have had characters die (in RP), or just want to be inspirational. Manikins depicting the founders of an SG, or heroes lost. Could come in normal or holographic (maybe one displays just the costume the other the whole hero)

Thinking about it if I could have one of my ideas brought forth into this game I think this would be it. It's got such wide appeal.

Lothic
Lothic's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 hours 17 min ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/02/2013 - 00:27
Project_Hero wrote:
Project_Hero wrote:

Something that could also be done with the manikin idea is if there was ever official costume contests then the winners could have their costumes displayed in this game's equivalent to Icon (provided there is one).
Something else neat that could be done is have some one or some ones create a costume contest SG where they could then have a hall of winners with costumes from every contest they've held. Make manikin public, player uploads, change manikin to private. Display.
Also it'd be a great thing for anyone playing a legacy hero, or have had characters die (in RP), or just want to be inspirational. Manikins depicting the founders of an SG, or heroes lost. Could come in normal or holographic (maybe one displays just the costume the other the whole hero)
Thinking about it if I could have one of my ideas brought forth into this game I think this would be it. It's got such wide appeal.

Sure I think there are a lot of possibilities with this. You might want to PM some of the Devs directly to make sure they are aware of all this. ;)

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

Project_Hero
Project_Hero's picture
Offline
Last seen: 9 hours 8 min ago
Joined: 10/09/2014 - 11:21
I'm sure they read the

I'm sure they read the threads from time to time.
I don't know who I'd contact.
I don't want to be a bother.
I'm sure they're all very busy :<

Lothic
Lothic's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 hours 17 min ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/02/2013 - 00:27
Project_Hero wrote:
Project_Hero wrote:

I'm sure they read the threads from time to time.
I don't know who I'd contact.
I don't want to be a bother.
I'm sure they're all very busy :<

I'm sure they skim the threads as often as they can but they're probably more likely to pay attention to PMs sent to them directly. I'd fire off something to at least Doctor Tyche and/or Tannim222. At the very worse they would be "so busy" that they don't respond to you but at least someone tried. *shrugs*

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

Project_Hero
Project_Hero's picture
Offline
Last seen: 9 hours 8 min ago
Joined: 10/09/2014 - 11:21
I have sent a message! I'll

I have sent a message! I'll tell you all any response I get on the subject if one from the devs doesn't show up on here about it.

Kiyori Anoyui
Kiyori Anoyui's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 month 2 weeks ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/10/2013 - 11:03
@Lothic, I was more meaning

@Lothic, I was more meaning that the ability to Co-edit a costume would be a game changer. It would be pretty fun/funny to have your friends in an editor at the same time. Think about all the monstrosities that would come about from such chaos xD

And also, I was thinking of a leaderboard type of chart where you could sort through to find the most liked outfits on the shared lists, to get some ideas from high ranked outfits rather than sifting through millions of public shared costumes trying to find really good ones. This also brings up the layout of the lists of shared costumes. I feel like the mannequin style of sharing could be useful here as well, say if it is just the costume or just the body slider, no matter what I feel like it should be a visual representation of the costume at first glance. Rather than a reddit style description of the costume, then you have to open the page to view the costume.

The Carnival of Light in the Phoenix Rising
"We never lose our demons, we only learn to live above them." - The Ancient One

Avatar by lilshironeko

blacke4dawn
blacke4dawn's picture
Online
Last seen: 13 min 7 sec ago
Joined: 03/28/2015 - 03:02
Kiyori Anoyui wrote:
Kiyori Anoyui wrote:

@Lothic, I was more meaning that the ability to Co-edit a costume would be a game changer. It would be pretty fun/funny to have your friends in an editor at the same time. Think about all the monstrosities that would come about from such chaos xD
And also, I was thinking of a leaderboard type of chart where you could sort through to find the most liked outfits on the shared lists, to get some ideas from high ranked outfits rather than sifting through millions of public shared costumes trying to find really good ones. This also brings up the layout of the lists of shared costumes. I feel like the mannequin style of sharing could be useful here as well, say if it is just the costume or just the body slider, no matter what I feel like it should be a visual representation of the costume at first glance. Rather than a reddit style description of the costume, then you have to open the page to view the costume.

Such a thing could be useful but if we do get it I don't see us getting it until years down the line due to the amount of work involved in making it work, even if they reuse existing elements as much as possible including the free-standing costume creator.

warcabbit
warcabbit's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 week 1 day ago
Developer11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 12/06/2012 - 17:39
We have a lot of ideas on how

We have a lot of ideas on how to do costume contests - including ones on the web showing off your character and stored for all time. Just got to get the main game done.

Project Lead

Fireheart
Fireheart's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 hours 2 min ago
11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/05/2013 - 13:45
Costume contests that you

Costume contests that you didn't have to stand around waiting for hours in? That could be awesome.

Be Well!
Fireheart

Lothic
Lothic's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 hours 17 min ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/02/2013 - 00:27
Kiyori Anoyui wrote:
Kiyori Anoyui wrote:

@Lothic, I was more meaning that the ability to Co-edit a costume would be a game changer. It would be pretty fun/funny to have your friends in an editor at the same time. Think about all the monstrosities that would come about from such chaos xD

Yeah it might be "fun" for a minute or two but TBH I'd probably never want the Devs to waste time to provide this kind of capability.

If you want to be "serious" about co-designing an outfit you'd likely spend time on it, save it, then pass it back and forth between the players involved. The idea of multiple people being able to "edit" things in an editor simultaneously is basically a recipe for frustration and silliness. How often do you see people wanting to be able edit the same text document or piece of source code simultaneously?

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

Project_Hero
Project_Hero's picture
Offline
Last seen: 9 hours 8 min ago
Joined: 10/09/2014 - 11:21
And this is where a manikin

And this is where a manikin can be helpful set up as many as there are folks co-making a costume then all can display their version of that creation to the group, then discuss "oh well I like the one person3 made the most I think we should do something like that, but it's not there yet." Everyone grabs person3's costume rinse and repeat till you have the best group collaborated costume you can.

TitansCity
TitansCity's picture
Offline
Last seen: 18 hours 49 min ago
11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/28/2013 - 02:09
warcabbit wrote:
warcabbit wrote:

We have a lot of ideas on how to do costume contests - including ones on the web showing off your character and stored for all time. Just got to get the main game done.

I like reading this kind of things :)
But… i think the players will prepare and handle some costume contest :) It mean, it's like the essence of COH's players and Super groups and i think it will continue with CoT ^^ Don't "waste" your dev time on that, players will handle this :p
Don't forget that the community will probably prepare costume contests, battle cry and animation events, treasure hunt, big game hunting, etc… to my opinion, it should be better to help players organize this kind of things (by allowing organizer to publish an advertising and a text for an event) ^^ At least, helps them at launch but don't forget that you are not alone to gather the community :p

Kiyori Anoyui
Kiyori Anoyui's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 month 2 weeks ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/10/2013 - 11:03
Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:
Kiyori Anoyui wrote:

@Lothic, I was more meaning that the ability to Co-edit a costume would be a game changer. It would be pretty fun/funny to have your friends in an editor at the same time. Think about all the monstrosities that would come about from such chaos xD

Yeah it might be "fun" for a minute or two but TBH I'd probably never want the Devs to waste time to provide this kind of capability.

If you want to be "serious" about co-designing an outfit you'd likely spend time on it, save it, then pass it back and forth between the players involved. The idea of multiple people being able to "edit" things in an editor simultaneously is basically a recipe for frustration and silliness. How often do you see people wanting to be able edit the same text document or piece of source code simultaneously?

Family and friends going in to create outfits together, Super groups all being able to go into an editor and create what they want their outfit to be as a group. Say if there was a dialogue box open in the CC/AB. Rather than one person creating something and passing it around, the leaders/group members of the SG can go in and all work on it together and have a live discussion and feedback on it. Idk, I feel like it has some practical applications...

Perhaps you can even have multiple characters on screen, with multiple views. So you can see what someone else is doing, or just your own character, or you can have a Full View where you see both/all character concepts/outfits at the same time.

Picture being able to have a "Tailor room" set up in your SG base, say it is a room with a bunch of computers where multiple/all SG members can go and log in(they would be logging into the AB/CC). You send out a call for a meeting to all your SG members. They come to the base and get logged in. Once logged in it might start with a mannequin, and you could choose to insert a character or multiple characters. Then you can start working on your SG designs, logos, etc. This is where you could also pick what costumes will be placed on your Hall of Titans and whatnot. Similar to CoH, you could choose what rank the SG members have to be to be able to make edits to the costumes. But even though low rank members don't have the ability to change the costume, they can at least watch and put in their opinion to the higher ranked members.

The Carnival of Light in the Phoenix Rising
"We never lose our demons, we only learn to live above them." - The Ancient One

Avatar by lilshironeko

Tinkhard
Tinkhard's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 weeks 1 day ago
Joined: 04/15/2014 - 08:18
warcabbit wrote:
warcabbit wrote:

We have a lot of ideas on how to do costume contests - including ones on the web showing off your character and stored for all time. Just got to get the main game done.

This is something that was promised at one point in CoH but never came to be. I would seriously love if we got this eventually.

TINK SMASH

DBG Radio

Lothic
Lothic's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 hours 17 min ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/02/2013 - 00:27
Kiyori Anoyui wrote:
Kiyori Anoyui wrote:
Lothic wrote:
Kiyori Anoyui wrote:

@Lothic, I was more meaning that the ability to Co-edit a costume would be a game changer. It would be pretty fun/funny to have your friends in an editor at the same time. Think about all the monstrosities that would come about from such chaos xD

Yeah it might be "fun" for a minute or two but TBH I'd probably never want the Devs to waste time to provide this kind of capability.

If you want to be "serious" about co-designing an outfit you'd likely spend time on it, save it, then pass it back and forth between the players involved. The idea of multiple people being able to "edit" things in an editor simultaneously is basically a recipe for frustration and silliness. How often do you see people wanting to be able edit the same text document or piece of source code simultaneously?

Family and friends going in to create outfits together, Super groups all being able to go into an editor and create what they want their outfit to be as a group. Say if there was a dialogue box open in the CC/AB. Rather than one person creating something and passing it around, the leaders/group members of the SG can go in and all work on it together and have a live discussion and feedback on it. Idk, I feel like it has some practical applications...

Perhaps you can even have multiple characters on screen, with multiple views. So you can see what someone else is doing, or just your own character, or you can have a Full View where you see both/all character concepts/outfits at the same time.

Picture being able to have a "Tailor room" set up in your SG base, say it is a room with a bunch of computers where multiple/all SG members can go and log in(they would be logging into the AB/CC). You send out a call for a meeting to all your SG members. They come to the base and get logged in. Once logged in it might start with a mannequin, and you could choose to insert a character or multiple characters. Then you can start working on your SG designs, logos, etc. This is where you could also pick what costumes will be placed on your Hall of Titans and whatnot. Similar to CoH, you could choose what rank the SG members have to be to be able to make edits to the costumes. But even though low rank members don't have the ability to change the costume, they can at least watch and put in their opinion to the higher ranked members.

A few SGs might want do this kind of "group costume design" a few times tops. This is the classic definition of a feature that would not be used enough to justify how much time and effort it would take the Devs to provide this capability.

I'm not saying what you're proposing would not be fun - it would probably actually be very entertaining to do once or twice. I'm just strongly implying there's perhaps 1,239+ features/options I'd like to see in the game BEFORE the Devs spend any time on something like this. The ability to save and share specific costume files will be a 90% compromise to what you want here - I just don't think the extra work needed for the last 10% would be worth it any time soon.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

Kiyori Anoyui
Kiyori Anoyui's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 month 2 weeks ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/10/2013 - 11:03
I do agree with you that the

I do agree with you that the 90% should be done first. But that doesn't deter me from wanting the last 10% eventually. I don't see it as something that will be used on a daily basis. But if used once by a large percentage of people I would say it would be a justified cause. Perhaps once all of the other systems are in place and they are looking for things to do/upgrade this can be brought. I know/knew that this wouldn't be high on the priority list, but I just wanted to throw that idea out there as a possible improvement somewhere down the line.

I don't believe it's too far-fetched of an idea. This is the same concept as the Heists in GTA 5. Before you go on every mission, you can choose the group outfits. The outfits can be a common theme or everyone can have their own thing going on. All player characters are on the same screen, and each real person can see other people changing their costumes individually or as a group. This concept could be used in CoT as well. Before a SG mission the team leader sets the group to SG costume, etc.

The Carnival of Light in the Phoenix Rising
"We never lose our demons, we only learn to live above them." - The Ancient One

Avatar by lilshironeko

Fireheart
Fireheart's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 hours 2 min ago
11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/05/2013 - 13:45
Actually, I don't think a

Actually, I don't think a Supergroup Costume designer needs to be 'live' or 'multi-user'. I prefer the idea of the mannequin where costume ideas can be 'posted'. Perhaps a few of them, for a range of ideas. My experience of 'live' costume designing is basically trading .costume files over IM while hanging out at Icon.

Hmm, perhaps if the Costume Creation interface could view multiple models? I'd have the 'working' model, which I'm working on, and then a couple of 'saved' models, holding ideas and examples. Maybe I could 'copy' segments from the 'saved' model(s) and 'paste' them into the 'working' model? A friend might say, 'Hey, look at this' and show me another 'saved' model and I might swap the models around - which one is my 'focus'. Or maybe there are multiple models on a virtual turntable, which I could add, copy, or subtract to, by changing which one was the 'focus', the 'working' model?

Starts getting complex, but I'm pretty sure trying to do 'live' and 'multi-user' simultaneous costume design would be a recipe for disaster.

Be Well!
Fireheart

Kiyori Anoyui
Kiyori Anoyui's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 month 2 weeks ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/10/2013 - 11:03
Fireheart wrote:
Fireheart wrote:

Starts getting complex, but I'm pretty sure trying to do 'live' and 'multi-user' simultaneous costume design would be a recipe for disaster.

As I was saying though, this is already done in GTA 5 and it is pretty seamless. The system has already been done and proven, so just taking the concept of multiple people viewing a costume editing screen and tweaking it a bit shouldn't be too rigorous, I feel.

The other portion of changing outfits in missions/on the fly is pretty moot due to Hotkey Costume Changes. But for bigger deals, such as SG costumes, I think the idea would be of more use.

I would be fine with either mannequins or actual characters in the costume editor.

The Carnival of Light in the Phoenix Rising
"We never lose our demons, we only learn to live above them." - The Ancient One

Avatar by lilshironeko

Redlynne
Redlynne's picture
Offline
Last seen: 8 hours 9 min ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/28/2013 - 21:15
Hmmm ... an interesting

Hmmm ... an interesting option occurs to me.

Let's assume, for the sake of illustration purposes, that Costume Mannequins will be a "thing" in City of Titans. The point and purpose is to be able to test and/or display costume choices on something other than your PC's avatar. Basic notion is to use them as Costume Test Dummies (in effect).

Now ... back in City of Heroes, we had ICON as the go to place for (re)designing costumes ... although some were obviously better designed/composed than others ...

But part of the community aspect of ICON was that you could go into the shop and see other costumes on other PCs and possibly be inspired by their composition of elements and themes. Sometimes all it took for inspiration to strike was to see what someone else had managed to do.

Now the way this worked was that you'd interact with the NPC and go into your own window of costume editing, and then at the end of it all you'd click the Accept Changes button and the new costume parameters would get implemented. But all of this was a completely PRIVATE exercise. You had to accept the changes before you could show to them anyone (else). So if you were collaborating with someone to settle on a costume design, you could go through a LOT of change iterations before finally settling on the finished look that you wanted. This was necessary because the entire costume editing system was an entirely private UI experience.

But that doesn't have to be the case if you're working with a Costume Mannequin ...

If you're working with a Costume Mannequin, purposely put "on display" for anyone and everyone in the vicinity to view, it becomes entirely possible to "publicize" any costume changes you might be wanting to make before actually implementing them on your PC. Additionally, since the Costume Mannequin will require the costume data file in order to display the costume accurately/correctly, it can become a "placeholder" service in-game for specific costume parameter combinations.

In other words, you could first copy your PC's costume onto a Costume Mannequin (for a small IGC fee) ... make any edits to the costume desired ... and then copy the costume from the Costume Mannequin (with changes) back onto your PC in a specific Costume Slot (again for a small IGC fee to implement the update). The value of doing this is that the Costume Mannequin then becomes a sort of "backup storage" of costume parameters which can be copied out to multiple PCs if so desired. This sort of underlying functionality would then make Supergroup Costumes much easier to duplicate inside the game for members of Supergroups, which would then be useful for Supergroups that organize around particular themes (military uniform themes being one of the most obvious).

So each Costume Mannequin then not only serves a display function purpose, but also an "external costume slot settings storage" purpose. Sure, you may only have 8 costume slots on any given character, but if you've to 20+ Costume Mannequins with different costume parameter pre-sets loaded up on them, you can "extend" those 8 costume slots on your character well beyond just those 8 slots worth of options that you can have available. This in turn would mean that it would become desirable for different members of SG to have Costume Mannequin "backups" of all of their favorite costumes kept in the SG Base ... which in turn creates a "demand" for what amounts to sufficient personal space to house all of these Costume Mannequins for each SG member, even if only for trophy/display/vanity purposes, which in turn functionally amounts to "closet space" within the SG Base for each member. And each Costume Mannequin would need to be purchased at a cost of IGC to add to the SG Base.

But in public places, akin to an ICON store, there would also be Costume Mannequins there (presumably LOTS of them) which PC's could walk up to and interact with in much the same way as using an Invention Table. So there would be "public" Costume Mannequins that Players could compose their costumes upon, which would retain that costume information until the next customer comes along and overwrites it all for THEIR costume.

Take things a little bit further, and you could even have spaces (either inside SG Bases and/or in the shared world) where costume contests take place where the whole point is to have PCs pick ONE of the Costume Mannequins (among the many present), copy their costume onto the Mannequin, and then step away to mill about with everyone else in getting a look at all of the costumes that are being put up for the contest. In other words, just the COSTUME elements ... not the CHARACTER wearing them. This in turn would help tackle the costume contest trolling habit of some Players who just have to repeatedly use their powers and/or emotes in as obnoxious a manner as possible. It also means that the costume contest participants don't need to just "stand around" waiting to be inspected by the judges for however long the contest lasts. And lastly, the Costume details of any of the winning entries would be easily accessible (for a small IGC copy fee) to any of the contest participants with a free costume slot able to hold the data.

The key thing here is that a Costume Mannequin service like this could be set up as being an IGC sink. Copying costume data too and from a Costume Mannequin would cost a nominal IGC fee per copy (paid by the PC doing the copying), and Costume Mannequins could be bought for "private storage" of costume parameters at a much higher IGC cost for use in either Personal Housing and/or Supergroup Bases. Each Costume Mannequin would be capable of holding only one set of costume parameters at a time, and each one would display whatever the most recent parameters copied to the Mannequin are ... and there would be "public" Costume Mannequins available for use in the City of Titans equivalent of ICON shops.

Indeed, with such a functionality built into the game, it is perfectly possible for "Fashionista" Players who create beautiful costume designs to gain a reputation and be sought out by other Players to create costume designs for PC's played by other Players. Contract tailoring services could become a "thing" in City of Titans, where people who enjoy making costumes could (in effect) "sell their skills" in shops like ICON to other Players for IGC tips, and get a reputation for their creativity ... a little bit like what goes on in Second Life with avatar creation.

But all of that functionality and social usefulness hinges upon being able to transfer costume data from a PC to what amounts to an "NPC Object" in order to hold, display and even transfer those costume data parameters beyond the confines of a single PC. At that point, you've created an in-game SERVICE ... and one that can be leveraged as one of the *many* IGC sinks that the game is going to need to help keep hyperinflation of IGC at bay.


Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.
Project_Hero
Project_Hero's picture
Offline
Last seen: 9 hours 8 min ago
Joined: 10/09/2014 - 11:21
In icon like places you could

In icon like places you could have private rooms (only for teammates) where you could set up a mannequin for peer review. If/when a base one isn't available for use.

I'm just now remembering that I had some costumes that were tweaked with some help. It would be nice to be able to make such changes and or have direct input from another ("I was thinking more like this" changes costume) without having to waste IGC. Or time. Time's more important.

Redlynne
Redlynne's picture
Offline
Last seen: 8 hours 9 min ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/28/2013 - 21:15
Yeah, doing things with a

Yeah, doing things with a Costume Mannequin would make consulting SO MUCH EASIER ... particularly if the IGC charges only happened on the copy in/copy out phases of the process. That means that when you're done with a Costume Manequinn in a public space, you just walk away, and whatever costume parameters were last set remain in place until the next "customer" comes up and starts doing any edits (presumably by copying their own costume onto the Manequinn to start things off).


Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.
Grimfox
Grimfox's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 12 hours ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 08/05/2014 - 10:17
I get where you are going

I get where you are going with this. but...

I think they stated that the CG(Character Generator) will be something that can potentially stand alone if not from the get go, later on. The way they've built it, as a separate module to be integrated with the main game, I think that is not a tall order to expect a saCG (stand alone CG). Since the CG can stand alone, it stands to reason that there will be a way to save those files and later import them to the main game. And it will likely work backwards as well. You'll be able to take a costume from the main game to import to the saCG. Since you have this file that can go back and forth, let's add a simple step of converting those costume designs into strings of text or an in game item. You can now send that to your friends for tweaking and they can send them back for review. I think 99% of that is planned. (correct me if i'm wrong) I'm having trouble grasping the need for a group editor.

I'm totally fine with a mannequin for displaying a design, (I rather like the idea, particularly for bases) but the idea of using it as a back up slot or editing slot seems redundant when you can use those CG files just as effectively and fill your hard drive or send to other users.

As far as providing inspiration, why not have the server just skim costumes from those people logged in? The server already has to collect that data to transmit to other players, so why not have it appropriate that data to fill in mannequins as well. I think that is something that they were maybe toying around with anyway for the statues that will populate the city...memory is a bit foggy on that aspect, I think it was in one of the animation videos they were trying that out.

To me there seems to be a lot of redundant or overly complex aspects being added to these mannequins. I know the description is simple but there are secondary things that are really going to screw this up. How do you establish the link for multiple people to access the same mannequin and see edits in real time? Who takes priority if two people are changing the should guards or tweaking the colors? How do you stop someone from dropping in and randomly screwing with your mannequin? Who establishes who can and can't edit? what if all the mannequins in the store are in use. If MWM decides this is a super awesome idea and it needs to be implemented great, but I think it's not something I'm interested in given the utilities we are already likely to have access too. "For me it's a no" -Heidi

(at)Roxanna - Little Sister - Plutonium Bloom - MilkShakes
Triumph
Guardian
Virtue

Dev Tracker: http://cityoftitans.com/forum/fixing-dev-digest
Dev Comments: https://cityoftitans.com/forum/dev-comments

Redlynne
Redlynne's picture
Offline
Last seen: 8 hours 9 min ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/28/2013 - 21:15
Trick question for you then.

Trick question for you then.

There's going to be a system for importing and exporting text files with costume parameters (probably a hash code, but that's yet to be determined I guess) to and from PC costume slots. Yes? No?

Explain to me how much MORE complicated it would be to import/export those exact same files and data to an NPC Object ... a Costume Mannequin ... instead of into a PC's costume slots.

I'll put down my marker that it's going to be trivially easy to extend that already existing and planned functionality beyond read/write to PC costume slots only.

Your go.


Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.
Doctor Tyche
Doctor Tyche's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 week 2 days ago
Developer11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 12/04/2012 - 11:29
Something which needs to be

Something which needs to be clear: The Costume Creator cannot be a completely separate program from the game due to our license. That means what we make has to connect to the game server, even if in a limited fashion, and integrate into the game itself when completed.

Technical Director

Read enough Facebook and you have to make Sanity Checks. I guess FB is the Great Old One of the interent these days... - Beamrider

Project_Hero
Project_Hero's picture
Offline
Last seen: 9 hours 8 min ago
Joined: 10/09/2014 - 11:21
Who determines who can use it

Who determines who can use it? If it's a base item it'll likely either be part of a larger SG set permissions menu, or be something that the base editor decides when putting it down.

This also stops randos from messing with it.

Kiyori Anoyui
Kiyori Anoyui's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 month 2 weeks ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/10/2013 - 11:03
Grimfox wrote:
Grimfox wrote:

Who takes priority if two people are changing the should guards or tweaking the colors? How do you stop someone from dropping in and randomly screwing with your mannequin? Who establishes who can and can't edit? what if all the mannequins in the store are in use. If MWM decides this is a super awesome idea and it needs to be implemented great, but I think it's not something I'm interested in given the utilities we are already likely to have access too. "For me it's a no" -Heidi

What do you do when all the stalls are taken in the public bathroom? The person who got there first takes priority. And if all are taken there is always the option of your personal or SG base, which could potentially have multiple Mannequins in it as well.

The Carnival of Light in the Phoenix Rising
"We never lose our demons, we only learn to live above them." - The Ancient One

Avatar by lilshironeko

Kiyori Anoyui
Kiyori Anoyui's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 month 2 weeks ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/10/2013 - 11:03
Redlynne wrote:
Redlynne wrote:

Indeed, with such a functionality built into the game, it is perfectly possible for "Fashionista" Players who create beautiful costume designs to gain a reputation and be sought out by other Players to create costume designs for PC's played by other Players. Contract tailoring services could become a "thing" in City of Titans, where people who enjoy making costumes could (in effect) "sell their skills" in shops like ICON to other Players for IGC tips, and get a reputation for their creativity ... a little bit like what goes on in Second Life with avatar creation.

Imagine being able to spend stars to put out an Ad in different areas of the world that says "Tired of looking like a Super Hobo? PM "Insert Player Name Here" to look as Super as you feel!

Get's the devs extra money, and allows characters a way to get some IGC for their creativity and hard work. It would literally allow actual people to become what ICON was in CoH.

The Carnival of Light in the Phoenix Rising
"We never lose our demons, we only learn to live above them." - The Ancient One

Avatar by lilshironeko

Redlynne
Redlynne's picture
Offline
Last seen: 8 hours 9 min ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/28/2013 - 21:15
Project_Hero wrote:
Project_Hero wrote:

Who determines who can use it?

You're asking about permissions to edit the costume displayed on any particular Costume Mannequin? Probably the easiest way to think about it is to start with the basic notion of a crafting/invention table.

So ... ideally speaking ... the Costume Mannequin will need to know/flag whether or not a PC is interacting with it (at all). Basically is someone "using" the Costume Mannequin. This is a simple Boolean (Y/N) test. Either a PC is interacting with the Costume Mannequin ... or they're not.

If a PC is NOT interacting with a (public) Costume Mannequin (for whatever reason) then the first "next" PC to interact with it will gain the ability to permit/deny access to the Mannequin while the first PC is using it.
If a PC IS already interacting with a (public) Costume Mannequin (for whatever reason) then the first PC to interact with that Mannequin will receive a pop-up notice alerting them that another PC would like to participate in editing the costume ... Permit? (Y/N)

The basic underlying notion is First Come, First Served ... and whoever interacts with a Mannequin "first" when another PC is not using it will be allowed to permit other PCs to concurrently access the Mannequin with them, so as to get a Group Edit going if desired, or deny access to keep interlopers out. PCs can drop the interaction by either closing the associated UI window and/or simply moving away from the Mannequin. If the "first" PC to access that Mannequin stops interacting with it, the interactions of all PCs accessing the Mannequin will drop, leaving the Mannequin "open" for another PC to step up and begin using.

Note that any sort of "clearing" of the costume data for a Costume Mannequin would never happen automatically, but rather only happen as a result of a Player initiated "clear costume settings" command. That means that once a PC is "done" using the Mannequin, the costume settings on it remain until another PC comes along and either alters or clears them.

Costume Mannequins deployed inside of SG Bases might have additional "privacy" permission settings put onto them (Public, SG Members Only, SG Officers Only, specific individual SG Member Only) limiting who can be the "first" PC to interact with a specific Mannequin, but after that the functionality would be basically the same. That way, you could theoretically hold a costume contest inside your SG Base, using a collection of Public Costume Mannequins that anyone can set up ... and have the costumes "remain" after the contest for members of the SG to enjoy (until the next costume contest). Alternatively, you could invite a friend into the SG Base, lead them to "your" private Costume Mannequin and invite them to edit a costume for you away from the prying eyes of public areas, and then once the editing is done keep the costume settings on the Mannequin on display for other members of your SG to view later at times that are convenient to them for feedback and commentary.

Basically, by having an "external storage and display" function/service you don't necessarily need to gather everyone together in one place all at the same time in order to have fun playing with costume designs. This then makes it a LOT easier for various Players to collaborate on a wide variety of costume design elements, as well as trade tips and tricks in forum posts on the subject, up to and including screenshots of the finished work and the sharing of text file/hash codes containing the import/export data for other Players to work with.

And since we want City of Titans to be a fundamentallly FRIENDLY and highly SOCIAL experience ... {significant look} ... I figure that this sort of thing amounts to an easy "gimmie" of low hanging fruit based on how everything else about costume design is going to have to work.

Now add in the fact that it looks like the Avatar Builder application is going to REQUIRE an uplink to the game server's backend database functions in order to work properly ... and suddenly you've got a VERY good reason for having Costume Mannequins available in the game. What reason? Well, it would allow Players who are essentially "offline" and not logged into the game proper to have access to something that allows them to edit costumes from outside the game, due to not being tied in to specific characters or logins. AND ... the Costume Mannequins used for this purpose could be put IN GAME such that there'd be a place (a gallery somewhere?) in which there are rows and columns of Costume Mannequins solely devoted to the purpose of supporting the Avatar Builder application used outside the game to function, using stand-in Costume Mannequins for PCs. This would then mean that IN GAME, Players could go to this location and see in real time the costumes that people are editing up for characters through the Avatar Builder application.

The way it would work is that when you load up the Avatar Builder app, it will automatically "log in" to the server and grant access to one of the available Costume Mannequins set aside (exclusively) for this purpose. Basically, you're given access to a(n available) Costume Mannequin instead of a playable character. At any time, you'll be able to export/import a text file that contains the costume data to either resume or save the work you've been doing on your costume design. That way, you don't even have to have an account subscription ... you just need the Avatar Builder app to connect you to a random Costume Mannequin inside the game ... and THERE is your Killer App for free advertising for the City of Heroes (just add awesome Hellwreckage music tracks).

Essentially then, instead of costume designs being something that's "private" through the Avatar Builder, they could be showcased to PC's who are already in game, as they are being edited, in real time. Like I said, think (permanent) Art Gallery Exhibit, where a collection of these Costume Mannequins are set aside for use via the Avatar Builder application. Want to go see what kinds of costumes people are thinking up when they're not inside the game? Go to the Costume Gallery and have a look!

A substantial part of the fun of playing City of Heroes was seeing all the glorious creativity in costume designs. Why do anything at all to hide that in City of Titans?


Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.
Huckleberry
Huckleberry's picture
Online
Last seen: 2 min 49 sec ago
Joined: 01/03/2016 - 08:39
Doctor Tyche wrote:
Doctor Tyche wrote:

Something which needs to be clear: The Costume Creator cannot be a completely separate program from the game due to our license. That means what we make has to connect to the game server, even if in a limited fashion, and integrate into the game itself when completed.

Am I correct in understanding this to mean that sending the Avatar Builder out beforehand is longer planned?


I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
Doctor Tyche
Doctor Tyche's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 week 2 days ago
Developer11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 12/04/2012 - 11:29
Huckleberry wrote:
Huckleberry wrote:
Doctor Tyche wrote:

Something which needs to be clear: The Costume Creator cannot be a completely separate program from the game due to our license. That means what we make has to connect to the game server, even if in a limited fashion, and integrate into the game itself when completed.

Am I correct in understanding this to mean that sending the Avatar Builder out beforehand is longer planned?

Not at all. It's just that the Avatar Builder will be a stripped down version of the game itself. It will need people to login before use, use the launcher for updates, etc.

Technical Director

Read enough Facebook and you have to make Sanity Checks. I guess FB is the Great Old One of the interent these days... - Beamrider

Huckleberry
Huckleberry's picture
Online
Last seen: 2 min 49 sec ago
Joined: 01/03/2016 - 08:39
Doctor Tyche wrote:
Doctor Tyche wrote:
Huckleberry wrote:
Doctor Tyche wrote:

Something which needs to be clear: The Costume Creator cannot be a completely separate program from the game due to our license. That means what we make has to connect to the game server, even if in a limited fashion, and integrate into the game itself when completed.

Am I correct in understanding this to mean that sending the Avatar Builder out beforehand is longer planned?

Not at all. It's just that the Avatar Builder will be a stripped down version of the game itself. It will need people to login before use, use the launcher for updates, etc.

I was hoping that would be your answer. Than you.

(by the way, whomever updated the forums, nested quotes is handled perfectly now without having to go back and code it myself.)


I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
Project_Hero
Project_Hero's picture
Offline
Last seen: 9 hours 8 min ago
Joined: 10/09/2014 - 11:21
Red, I wasn't asking. I was

Red, I wasn't asking. I was repeating a question from a earlier post and then answered it.

Kiyori Anoyui
Kiyori Anoyui's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 month 2 weeks ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/10/2013 - 11:03
Doctor Tyche wrote:
Doctor Tyche wrote:
Huckleberry wrote:
Doctor Tyche wrote:

Something which needs to be clear: The Costume Creator cannot be a completely separate program from the game due to our license. That means what we make has to connect to the game server, even if in a limited fashion, and integrate into the game itself when completed.

Am I correct in understanding this to mean that sending the Avatar Builder out beforehand is longer planned?

Not at all. It's just that the Avatar Builder will be a stripped down version of the game itself. It will need people to login before use, use the launcher for updates, etc.

So will there be an in-game editor like ICON in CoH? Or will costume editing only be outside of the actual game? Or will the Avatar be outside game and costume inside the game, meaning your avatar is locked in after creation but you can alter the outfits once in-game.

The Carnival of Light in the Phoenix Rising
"We never lose our demons, we only learn to live above them." - The Ancient One

Avatar by lilshironeko

Fireheart
Fireheart's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 hours 2 min ago
11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/05/2013 - 13:45
Kiyori Anoyui wrote:
Kiyori Anoyui wrote:
Doctor Tyche wrote:
Huckleberry wrote:
Doctor Tyche wrote:

Something which needs to be clear: The Costume Creator cannot be a completely separate program from the game due to our license. That means what we make has to connect to the game server, even if in a limited fashion, and integrate into the game itself when completed.

Am I correct in understanding this to mean that sending the Avatar Builder out beforehand is longer planned?

Not at all. It's just that the Avatar Builder will be a stripped down version of the game itself. It will need people to login before use, use the launcher for updates, etc.

So will there be an in-game editor like ICON in CoH? Or will costume editing only be outside of the actual game? Or will the Avatar be outside game and costume inside the game, meaning your avatar is locked in after creation but you can alter the outfits once in-game.

I'm pretty sure the Avatar Builder creates files that describe the Avatar and its Costume. These can then be run in the game or stored in a local file. If you are not 'in-game', then you would only be able to create local files, but if you are in-game then the file can be applied to the avatar that you are running/creating or stored locally.
I don't know if/that there will be a fixed location, such as Icon, where you can access the Avatar Builder in-game, this may still be being refined. There may be several such locations, or you may be able to call the Avatar Builder up from any location, like it was running on a PDA.

Be Well!
Fireheart

TitansCity
TitansCity's picture
Offline
Last seen: 18 hours 49 min ago
11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/28/2013 - 02:09
[quote=Fireheart
Fireheart wrote:

I'm pretty sure the Avatar Builder creates files that describe the Avatar and its Costume. These can then be run in the game or stored in a local file. If you are not 'in-game', then you would only be able to create local files, but if you are in-game then the file can be applied to the avatar that you are running/creating or stored locally.

Why not having an "upload" button when in "out of game" mode ? maybe i want to spend my lunch time to choose my costume :) And then, upload it on my account for having it the evening ^^
If it's a separated unit, then the system can probably embed a "localy save" button and an "upload" save button (in a "out of the game" mode) and could be turn into "localy save" button and an "save" button (in a "in game" mode).

Redlynne
Redlynne's picture
Offline
Last seen: 8 hours 9 min ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/28/2013 - 21:15
Fireheart wrote:
Fireheart wrote:

I don't know if/that there will be a fixed location, such as Icon, where you can access the Avatar Builder in-game, this may still be being refined. There may be several such locations, or you may be able to call the Avatar Builder up from any location, like it was running on a PDA.

Another opportunity for creating an IGC sink.

Avatar Builder functionality can be accessed from anywhere ... but if it is NOT being accessed in specific locations (ICON, et al.) then use of the Avatar Builder functions for editing costumes/bodies will cost IGC. If it is being accessed in specific locations supporting that service, then the IGC costs are waived.

Basically a "Go Here To Do It For Free" kind a dynamic.


Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.
Renkage
Offline
Last seen: 2 days 12 hours ago
Joined: 10/07/2014 - 01:53
Okay, so I don't think I will

Okay, so I don't think I will probably get it. But can I see the palm of the model? I'm an amateur modeler, and the hand is causing some troubles for me. Heck, just by looking at the back of the hand I got a few jolts of inspiration. Also, isn't there a way to show the weight painting of the model? Could you also show those for the people that are interested?

Unarmed combat best combat. Every media
Huckleberry
Huckleberry's picture
Online
Last seen: 2 min 49 sec ago
Joined: 01/03/2016 - 08:39
Renkage wrote:
Renkage wrote:

Okay, so I don't think I will probably get it. But can I see the palm of the model? I'm an amateur modeler, and the hand is causing some troubles for me. Heck, just by looking at the back of the hand I got a few jolts of inspiration. Also, isn't there a way to show the weight painting of the model? Could you also show those for the people that are interested?

Interesting. The triceps in the arm bug me. The size of a muscular arm is really in the triceps, but it looks like this model has it all in the biceps and that just looks weird to me.


I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
Renkage
Offline
Last seen: 2 days 12 hours ago
Joined: 10/07/2014 - 01:53
Huckleberry wrote:
Huckleberry wrote:

Interesting. The triceps in the arm bug me. The size of a muscular arm is really in the triceps, but it looks like this model has it all in the biceps and that just looks weird to me.

Ah, there was a slight misunderstanding. Me saying that the "hand is causing some troubles for me" is in reference to my own skill as an artist. So what you thought I said was actually the opposite, I liked the hand model enough that I want to study the palm of the hand as well.

Unarmed combat best combat. Every media

Pages