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Discuss: Developer's Workshop: Animating While Holding

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Shadow Elusive
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Discuss: Developer's Workshop: Animating While Holding

First of a new tactic on our part. It's hard to package these things for polish, but we know you guys enjoy seeing them. So, we've given them their own category. Don't just talk about the vid, talk about the idea - what do you think of Developer's Workshop?

Developer's Workshop: Animating While Holding

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Dark Ether
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Awesome video! The more, the

Awesome video! The more, the merrier.

(insert pithy comment here)

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It's certainly a plus for

It's certainly a plus for those people who want to hold two different weapons/objects in both hands. Might apply to characters who want to hold something in one hand but not actually "use" that object as a focus for attacks. For example maybe a wizard could hold a "walking stick" in one hand but use his other free hand to cast energy bolts or some-such.

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Ohh now I just imagine

Ohh now I just imagine sticking the sword in the ground while using the bow for ranged attacks, then taking the sword back in hand to finish of enemies that closed to melee range (or stopping/pausing attacks).

Really nice showcase, as usual.

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Dark Ether wrote:
Dark Ether wrote:

Awesome video! The more, the merrier.

I agree.

Since I check all sources (I'm dying for each progress you devs make with development lately) I'll be able to follow these updates here too.

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I always enjoy insight into

I always enjoy insight into the development process. Keep'em comin', please and thank you.

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I like everything about this.

I like everything about this. The workshop, the animation, all of it.

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The idea is excellent. Keep

The idea is excellent. Keep them coming.

Holding multiple props while only using the appropriate one for the power? Even better. Will we be able to choose which is more appropriate?

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Nicely done.

Nicely done.
When a character has two props (one in each hand or two 2-handed), will it be possible to transition between only holding/using one of the props?

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The video looks really good -

The video looks really good - great job on the animations and dual-wielding. As for the Developer's Workshop itself - I think these little bite-size micro-updates will go over very well. I especially like how you specifically call out what to focus on and what to ignore - hopefully those with less knowledge of the game will be less likely to get the wrong idea about things.

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Soooooo.... does that mean my

Soooooo.... does that mean my sword and board wonder woman clone can throw her shield while holding her sword?

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For strictly one-handed

For strictly one-handed weapons, like pistols and swords, etc, will there be the option of left vs right hand for all the animations? If so, I don't see why you couldn't have a sword and board toon that uses the sword for one power and the shield for another, then I make mine with the sword and shield hands switched and use different animations entirely for my toons different attacks.

So your toon uses sword on the right, mine has sword in the left and we're doing completely different power sets anyway, possibly with "mirror image" versions of the same animations and or different animations.

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You now if they incorporated

You know, if they incorporated Juggling, maybe we could chain 3+ weapon attacks?

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Mewkychan wrote:
Mewkychan wrote:

You know, if they incorporated Juggling, maybe we could chain 3+ weapon attacks?

That is exactly where my mind went after reading the description of the video. I want to see a street juggler tossing a chainsaw, sword, bowling pin & an apple. Then periodically tossing one at an enemy.

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Love this video. Movements

Love this video. Movements look so smooth.

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I wanna make an MC Hammer

I wanna make an MC Hammer clone that dual wields giant shields with speakers in them that cast out those dance emote holds on enemies. I'll call him... "Can't Touch This"

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Something I would think that

Something I would think that would be pretty cool is if you could wield a gun and sword at the same time while doing that spinning attack. So the ultimate attack would be close range damage in a small circle and the ranged damage to a bigger area. Love the concept, and the new video release style, will they be kept on the two week posting schedule or on a different timeline?

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Would the animation be

Would the animation be different depending on what is or is not in the off-hand?

For example, if there was nothing in the off-hand would it be the same animation as when he is holding a bow? What if he was holding another sword?

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Oh!! You know what would be

Oh!! You know what would be cool? An animation where you throw your current weapon in the air, attack and then catch your weapon!!! That would be awesome!!!

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I would like to be able to

I would like to be able to have a stick in each hand and use them in tandem to do attacks, like escrima sticks, sais, tonfas, etc. Or at least the ability to code that up in future updates at least. Also dual pistols is a bada$$ look. You'd maybe want to handle this kind of stuff like a two-handed weapon, if that's going to be a thing? IDK

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notears wrote:
notears wrote:

Oh!! You know what would be cool? An animation where you throw your current weapon in the air, attack and then catch your weapon!!! That would be awesome!!!

Throws sword in the air, wondering when it will come down...., looks up and notices it is stuck in the ceiling..... "No Capes!" =p

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I now have more faith in the

I now have more faith in the combat O.O

YAY!

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Looks great!

Looks great!

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I like the way that even

I like the way that even though the action is over-the-top (as one would expect for a super) it still feels right, physics-wise.

Not sure if it's too soon to know, but would the left, right, variation on spin sequence we see repeated represent the activation of 3 attack powers in sequence? Or is that just one big attack with a 3-part animation?

Also, I am loving this: "These will always be accompanied by a What to Look For and What to Ignore paragraph, to help people know what to make of them (and what not to make of them)." Much appreciated!

Spurn all ye kindle.

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What other have said, plus:

What other have said, plus:

I like the subtle but distinctive colors and "damage type" effects (flames, snow / liquid drips, shadows / negative energy). Can see the potential to recolor even just these three to get a wide range of desired aesthetics for my characters, and I'm sure more effects are in the works.
I think this shows a good approach to animation, where we still see the character as they perform attacks. Massive obscuring effects have their place, but the style seen in the video can really help to differentiate the power behind the various tiers of attacks and allows me to design some serious, careful, and reserved characters. I like the option to show that this type of character uses basic attacks that are simple (but effective) in normal situations, but is capable of unleashing an epic light show of high-impact powers when needed.

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Scott Jackson wrote:
Scott Jackson wrote:

I think this shows a good approach to animation, where we still see the character as they perform attacks. Massive obscuring effects have their place, but the style seen in the video can really help to differentiate the power behind the various tiers of attacks and allows me to design some serious, careful, and reserved characters. I like the option to show that this type of character uses basic attacks that are simple (but effective) in normal situations, but is capable of unleashing an epic light show of high-impact powers when needed.

Excellent point.

Spurn all ye kindle.

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Only thing I can add to what

Only thing I can add to what's been said is that the music used in the after-credits is already starting to become familiar and to give me that little tingle of excitement the way the City of Heroes themes did :D.

FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)

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I enjoyed everything except

I enjoyed everything except the sword slicing deep into the ground with every strike. Beautiful animations, just need to keep the blade out of the ground. ;-)

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I've had a mind to make a

I've had a mind to make a mundane but well-trained person for a while now wih guns and other tools. Hopefully this means I can go with someone that can pull a grenade off their belt without losing the gun they're currently using.

Not what most people think of when you say "weapons in a superhero setting" admittedly, but I still like the idea :P

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Halae wrote:
Halae wrote:

Not what most people think of when you say "weapons in a superhero setting" admittedly, but I still like the idea :P

Punisher is really the only person who immediately jumps to mind when I think about someone who's just a person with guns. I even looked up Solo from Marvel and Grifter from Image as I thought both of them were just highly trained homosapiens. I was apparently wrong as they both possess some degree of superpowers.

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Oooooh!!! Two thumbs up!

Oooooh!!! Two thumbs up! Very nice animation.

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Empyrean wrote:
Empyrean wrote:

Only thing I can add to what's been said is that the music used in the after-credits is already starting to become familiar and to give me that little tingle of excitement the way the City of Heroes themes did :D.

The piece's title is "We are Villains" incidentally.

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This makes my heart so happy

This makes my heart so happy 💗 I love the idea of having multiple weapons available for one character. I would think dual wielding different weapons must be possible too?
And I'm super excited to keep watching for more development updates like this!! I will always love CoX, but CoT is honestly looking like its possibilities will exceed what CoX was capable of.
💗💗💗

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It's a great concept and what

It's a great concept and what you showed in the video looks real nice. However, I can only guess as to the headaches a feature like this is going to create. Just imagine the clipping issues alone. Based solely on the ideas people have had in this thread, there's a dev somewhere right now bashing his head on a desk thinking why did we bother

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Every update is more awesome

Every update is more awesome than the last! Thanks.

with that said: I would like to swing a sword whilst holding a cup of tea and never spill a drop Please and thank you.
I have a proper British gentleman hero in mind.

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Just a quick note on the

Just a quick note on the sword going into the ground that only happens when previewing the animation when actually in an environment it will stop at the ground.

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amievil wrote:
amievil wrote:

Just a quick note on the sword going into the ground that only happens when previewing the animation when actually in an environment it will stop at the ground.

This sounds advanced. If you are talking about collision detection between the prop and the environment and that collision providing feedback into the animation, I don't think anyone's done that before have they?

Potential Titans:
Trap Spider - the little spider rides a big robot
Thunderbird Priest - conduit of the Thunderbird spirit
Lovebot - programmed to love man, gives tough love to mankind
Schwarzchild - singularity-manipulating time traveller is lost

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Zerohour wrote:
Zerohour wrote:

It's a great concept and what you showed in the video looks real nice. However, I can only guess as to the headaches a feature like this is going to create. Just imagine the clipping issues alone. Based solely on the ideas people have had in this thread, there's a dev somewhere right now bashing his head on a desk thinking why did we bother

This is the slippery slope that all computer games have been facing for decades. As soon as some Dev manages to come up with a tech innovation that allows X, Y or Z the players can always think of 5 or 10 new ways that innovation can be expanded upon. It's a big reason why games like these take years to make instead of hours or days. ;)

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Huckleberry wrote:
Huckleberry wrote:

This sounds advanced. If you are talking about collision detection between the prop and the environment and that collision providing feedback into the animation, I don't think anyone's done that before have they?

That's a really good question. Inquiring minds want to know!

Spurn all ye kindle.

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Cinnder wrote:
Cinnder wrote:

Huckleberry wrote:
This sounds advanced. If you are talking about collision detection between the prop and the environment and that collision providing feedback into the animation, I don't think anyone's done that before have they?
That's a really good question. Inquiring minds want to know!

The real question would be if there's "prop collision detection" that would keep the tip of a sword from clipping through say a wall or other non-ground object. The idea that things could "detect" the ground in and of itself doesn't seem that revolutionary considering characters running around don't seem to have much problem with their feet sinking into the ground. Collision detection against the ground is one thing - collision detection against anything else in the environment might be the real breakthrough here.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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Short answer is yes it can

Short answer is yes it can collide and it can bypass certain things as well just depends on the collision setup.

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amievil wrote:
amievil wrote:

Short answer is yes it can collide and it can bypass certain things as well just depends on the collision setup.

Sexy. That sounds like something that could be used intentionally for some interesting effects.

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ya know this brings up a

ya know this brings up a millennial hero concept. One hand holding a cellphone. Constantly talking on the phone and occasional selfies while slicing apart...I mean subduing villains with the sharp end of a sword.

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Cyclops wrote:
Cyclops wrote:

ya know this brings up a millennial hero concept. One hand holding a cellphone. Constantly talking on the phone and occasional selfies while slicing apart...I mean subduing villains with the sharp end of a sword.

As long as it doesn't end up like this:

;)

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Doctor Tyche wrote:
Doctor Tyche wrote:

Empyrean wrote:
Only thing I can add to what's been said is that the music used in the after-credits is already starting to become familiar and to give me that little tingle of excitement the way the City of Heroes themes did :D.
The piece's title is "We are Villains" incidentally.

HA! Then I should have said CoX :P.

So... what does "We are Heroes" sound like?

FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)

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Empyrean wrote:
Empyrean wrote:

Doctor Tyche wrote:
Empyrean wrote:
Only thing I can add to what's been said is that the music used in the after-credits is already starting to become familiar and to give me that little tingle of excitement the way the City of Heroes themes did :D.
The piece's title is "We are Villains" incidentally.
HA! Then I should have said CoX :P.
So... what does "We are Heroes" sound like?

Also; wasn't there some music that was supposed to be available to the Kickstarters?

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Last update on the music was

Last update on the music was that they were still finalizing some of the songs. Then they can release to backers and start using it in their videos. Thus we are only getting snippets in videos right now.

Pretty good video. Good reaction here. I wonder how the rest of the net is treating it? I've seen this sort of thing posted before but it's usually after the game has been out for awhile and the devs share "secrets" from development. Would have liked to see both items in use in the demo video.

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amievil wrote:
amievil wrote:

Just a quick note on the sword going into the ground that only happens when previewing the animation when actually in an environment it will stop at the ground.

Two thumbs up!

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I think you'll find a lot of

I think you'll find a lot of the music that might be in City of Titans at this site. I believe the artist was previously known by the name Hellwreckage, so you can search that also; but His name is Nicolas Grandell.

You can also find a thread in these forums about him here.

Potential Titans:
Trap Spider - the little spider rides a big robot
Thunderbird Priest - conduit of the Thunderbird spirit
Lovebot - programmed to love man, gives tough love to mankind
Schwarzchild - singularity-manipulating time traveller is lost

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Cobalt Azurean wrote:
Cobalt Azurean wrote:

Empyrean wrote:
Doctor Tyche wrote:
Empyrean wrote:
Only thing I can add to what's been said is that the music used in the after-credits is already starting to become familiar and to give me that little tingle of excitement the way the City of Heroes themes did :D.
The piece's title is "We are Villains" incidentally.
HA! Then I should have said CoX :P.
So... what does "We are Heroes" sound like?
Also; wasn't there some music that was supposed to be available to the Kickstarters?

Waiting for the last track. The theme. He jokes has become his magnum opus.

Technical Director

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Doctor Tyche wrote:
Doctor Tyche wrote:

Cobalt Azurean wrote:
Empyrean wrote:
Doctor Tyche wrote:
Empyrean wrote:
Only thing I can add to what's been said is that the music used in the after-credits is already starting to become familiar and to give me that little tingle of excitement the way the City of Heroes themes did :D.
The piece's title is "We are Villains" incidentally.
HA! Then I should have said CoX :P.
So... what does "We are Heroes" sound like?
Also; wasn't there some music that was supposed to be available to the Kickstarters?
Waiting for the last track. The theme. He jokes has become his magnum opus.

Thank you for the info!

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Doctor Tyche wrote:
Doctor Tyche wrote:

Waiting for the last track. The theme. He jokes has become his magnum opus.

Patience may be a Virtue, but actually delivering is a Triumph! *^_^*


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Redlynne wrote:
Redlynne wrote:

Doctor Tyche wrote:
Waiting for the last track. The theme. He jokes has become his magnum opus.
Patience may be a Virtue, but actually delivering is a Triumph! *^_^*

I wish I could share it. Even incomplete, it's everything I could want.

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Hellwreckage rules.

Hellwreckage rules.

Hey, my son has a friend who's at SCAD for sound design, about a year from graduating and mainly wanting to go into game sound fx. I've heard his work and it's really good. My son mentioned the project to him and he was really enthusiastic about volunteering. He'll be emailing y'all soon. I told him I wasn't sure if you needed sound fx right now, but he's going to contact you.

FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)

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Looks neat. As an isolated

Looks neat. As an isolated video I might be confused, but with supplementary information, it's interesting to see the route you're taking with powers and such.

Semi-related, with polearms, swords, etc, it's possible to use something two handed whilst also holding something else in one of the hands. It was useful for daggers, but you could wrap your fingers around the body of a bow and the shaft of a spear just as easily as a spear and a dagger or whatever. I mention this because that sword is very large and is being used one handed somehow. :v

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Doctor Tyche wrote:
Doctor Tyche wrote:

Redlynne wrote:
Doctor Tyche wrote:
Waiting for the last track. The theme. He jokes has become his magnum opus.
Patience may be a Virtue, but actually delivering is a Triumph! *^_^*
I wish I could share it. Even incomplete, it's everything I could want.

Actually, the remarkable thing is that I wanted something very different from it, and he still delivered without taking away anything you wanted. A rare talent, indeed.

That's not too much of a headache. Though considering in this case, "much" is essentially 3.141592(ei- ie) over 0.

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Lovely.... and seing 2018 in

Lovely.... and seing 2018 in the end made me smile :)

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Looks Great !

Looks Great !
I hope we can get the level of detail on our characters and environment as the same as ArcheAge.
They are using CryEngine and since you are using UE4 you should be able to get some really spectacular image quality for both.

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Damn. I actually like the

Damn. I actually like the idea of "weapon" attacks carving through the environment, including the ground, to some degree. Vorpal blades anyone? Monofilaments? Anti-matter bullets? Awesome destructo-magicks? Ungodly strength?

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Wanton property damage?

Wanton property damage? Lawsuits?


Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.
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In a game? Yes, totally see

In a game? Yes, totally see that happening. I'll just put a lawyer on retainer, then, shall I?

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Redlynne wrote:
Redlynne wrote:

Wanton property damage? Lawsuits?

Always! Video games have been displaying property damage for years. It's typically not very intrusive and usually just a (temporary) texture overlay or some simple, spawned models.

Goldeneye 64 did, actually:
https://68.media.tumblr.com/10661515283550216920aaf34a8cb365/tumblr_nykn06Kj8t1s3uawvo1_400.gif

So did City of Heroes:
https://paragonwiki.com/w/images//8/8e/Ghost_Widow_Costume_Emote_CCStoneBlock.gif
https://paragonwiki.com/w/images//b/b0/Ghost_Widow_Costume_Emote_CCEnergyMorph.gif