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Discuss: City of Titans A Primer

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JWBullfrog
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Discuss: City of Titans A Primer

You can read the original update here:https://cityoftitans.com/content/city-titans-primer

And check out Warlocc's companion post here:https://cityoftitans.com/forum/faq-feedback

MWM Editor- Public Relations Team Lead -All Purpose Frog

Wait until you see the... nope, that would ruin the surprise.

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update wrote:
update wrote:

Once Issue 0 has been released and testing has begun, we’ll roll out our second crowdfunder. The second kickstarter...

Again, trying to ameliorate communication issues, I'd seen that the second crowdfunder will NOT be a kickstarter, but based (and verifying) the in-house billing system.


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DesViper wrote:
DesViper wrote:
update wrote:

Once Issue 0 has been released and testing has begun, we’ll roll out our second crowdfunder. The second kickstarter...

Again, trying to ameliorate communication issues, I'd seen that the second crowdfunder will NOT be a kickstarter, but based (and verifying) the in-house billing system.

That is correct. Our error there. Second Chance WILL NOT be run through Kickstarter. The plan is for it to be self hosted.

MWM Editor- Public Relations Team Lead -All Purpose Frog

Wait until you see the... nope, that would ruin the surprise.

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Also we should have a "is

Also we should have a "is there any other way I can support MWM until Second Chance"? To plug Hijinx.


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DesViper wrote:
DesViper wrote:

Also we should have a "is there any other way I can support MWM until Second Chance"? To plug Hijinx.

Convenient links at the bottom of the update:

Support City of Titans at our Patreon and Read our Comic: https://www.patreon.com/HiJinx
Enjoy our Instagram! https://www.instagram.com/missingworldsmedia/
Why not buy us a Ko-Fi? https://ko-fi.com/Z8Z06NFG
We have a Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/CityOfTitansmmo
And a Twitter: https://twitter.com/CityOfTitansMMO/

MWM Editor- Public Relations Team Lead -All Purpose Frog

Wait until you see the... nope, that would ruin the surprise.

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Yeah but I think it'd be good

Yeah but I think it'd be good to have it after "but seriously, when can I play?" I tend to think people ignore the last bits.


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Wake me up when something

Wake me up when something finally happens.

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Up to this point information

Up to this point information about characters has been released in discrete chunks and there are various strata for these details. Archetypes, Powers, Masteries, Aesthetic Decoupling, etc. Some points have been drilled down in detail while others have been referenced in a vague manner. All of that information only makes sense to the people that see the whole picture (i.e. you people on the inside at MWM).

What needs to happen is to lay down a broad (and detailed as possible) framework for what creating a character means. Then provide an in-depth drill down of creating a character start to finish, highlighting all of the wonderful options that are available in CoT. Maybe it could be a multi-update series that shows how a character gets created. Take an end user's point of view to the character creation process.

There are many ways to create a character:
- concept that feeds design >> "I want to make something like Superman, let's start with X and make it look like Y, etc"
- exploration of the framework to shape and mold an idea >> "let's take a look at Gunners, I think dual pistols would be neat, yeah I want to make a Chow Yun Fat Hard Boiled guy, ok now we are onto something..."
- My friend plays X and I want to make something that compliments that character well so we can duo

Those are a few ways that users will approach creating characters in this game. Just provide examples of how that can be accomplished and showcase how the features in CoT allow for that freedom and possibly expose new concepts that the user had not considered beforehand.

Plus if you create content like this, it would be much easier for people outside the MWM organization (and rabid CoT fans) to grasp what is being attempted here.

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I'd say the costume update

I'd say the costume update linked gives a glance into how one might start a character. There was also the dev costume contest.


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Am I wrong to have red flags

Am I wrong to have red flags popping up at the mention of Epic and a deal with them? I don't like Epic and I don't like their business practices. The thought of them reaching their greasy hands around City of Titans kinda concerns me. But before I start panicking maybe that can be a bit more expanded on? Did I miss an update or looked over this in the past?

Small Edit: My initial thought is it had to do with using things FROM Epic, thus they wouldn't want to have it run in the mud. Also I assume the reason the promised Character Creator before testing never happened is because of the deal, and Issue 0 is just a clever work around? Bear with me I'm not bright! :P

Have a nice day!

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dell56v wrote:
dell56v wrote:

Am I wrong to have red flags popping up at the mention of Epic and a deal with them? I don't like Epic and I don't like their business practices. The thought of them reaching their greasy hands around City of Titans kinda concerns me. But before I start panicking maybe that can be a bit more expanded on? Did I miss an update or looked over this in the past?

Small Edit: My initial thought is it had to do with using things FROM Epic, thus they wouldn't want to have it run in the mud. Also I assume the reason the promised Character Creator before testing never happened is because of the deal, and Issue 0 is just a clever work around? Bear with me I'm not bright! :P

What you missed, likely because it was before you started watching these forums, was this Kickstarter Update. I don't recall where I read the summary of the terms, but IIRC it was basically a small fee (or percentage?) once the game launches, and MWM helped Epic test out the new engine (it was new, back then. ^_^), in return for the license. But yes, as I understand it, this deal is why the standalone avatar builder won't be a thing.

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Ah Okay. I vaguely remember

Ah Okay. I vaguely remember that. I kinda took a break from the forums and mostly just read the updates as they came. But thank you for the information!

Have a nice day!

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DesViper wrote:
DesViper wrote:

I'd say the costume update linked gives a glance into how one might start a character. There was also the dev costume contest.

I would disagree. That dev costume contest was just the end result. Nothing about power selections, aesthetic decoupling, emanation points, tweaking a character design.

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True, no powers shown. I don

True, no powers shown. I don't think day 1 (or -150 or whatever) of Issue 0 will have ANY powers.


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DesViper wrote:
DesViper wrote:

True, no powers shown. I don't think day 1 (or -150 or whatever) of Issue 0 will have ANY powers.

Correct. Issue 0 does not have powers.


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Honestly these “updates“ are

Honestly these “updates“ are becoming a joke. Do any of us really need a run down like this? Talk about grasping at straws here. This really feels like a “crap we have nothing else” kind of update. You guys need to come up with something definitive, especially in light of City of Heroes becoming available to play again

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Zerohour wrote:
Zerohour wrote:

Honestly these “updates“ are becoming a joke. Do any of us really need a run down like this? Talk about grasping at straws here. This really feels like a “crap we have nothing else” kind of update. You guys need to come up with something definitive, especially in light of City of Heroes becoming available to play again

I think this update was geared more toward new fans not ones that have been following the project for 6 years. In spite of my own critiques of MWM, I don't see this update as them grasping at straws. They think they are 'close' to Issue #0 and are promoting it more. Yes, we've heard 'close' for years now but eventually it will actually mean what the word means. Maybe we are close to that 'eventually'. They have added more official 'stuff' to Issue #0; before it was only the chargen, now its a zone with a chat feature. Those were maybe's before, so that's something.

Of all the things to be upset about, the amount of time it's taking should be the last thing you complain about. You know they are an all volunteer group and, as far as I know, none of them have ever made an mmo before. They working a fraction of the hours per week a normal studio gets in so obviously you need to tack-on a few years to their development schedule, let alone not having the money to hire professionals full-time.

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Correct. We've gotten a lot

Correct. We've gotten a lot of new followers lately - and we are long overdue on updating our FAQ. The PR team worked on this for more than a week and checked with all departments for accuracy and input. (No, I'm not on that PR team; I'm just aware of the level of effort they put into it).

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avelworldcreator wrote:
avelworldcreator wrote:

Correct. We've gotten a lot of new followers lately - and we are long overdue on updating our FAQ. The PR team worked on this for more than a week and checked with all departments for accuracy and input. (No, I'm not on that PR team; I'm just aware of the level of effort they put into it).

I'm following from the begin and find that once in a while a recap update is well worth it.

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I think this is an excellent

I think this is an excellent overview for folks who have arrived recently and have been finding it difficult to get their heads round the main concepts.

Devs on five continents? Just out of curiosity, which two are not populated by MWM? I assume Antarctica (unless MacReady is a dev) but what's the other one?

'We’ve spent a lot of time building very important, stable foundations for a development company and video game to stand on. There are legal challenges to be solved, physical hardware and software challenges to be addressed for a development team spread across the world. We’ve committed ourselves to ethical business models and ways of encouraging healthy player involvement. All of these very boring'

I beg to differ. I find that foundational and ethical work to be perhaps the most encouraging aspect of this project!

Spurn all ye kindle.

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Not a giant leap forward from

Not a giant leap forward from the perspective of the ancient ones of this forum, but a useful and probably necessary step. It does recreate a baseline for the thinking and discussion that I think needs to be happening, in light of the much louder CoH news.

I would, however, take issue with this quote from the update as being essentially false:
"...as we’ve discovered, sometimes showing off something uninteresting to our audience can be worse than showing nothing at all."

The only complaint I have ever had, or ever seen voiced by our community, is that some things were shown poorly in the past...not that any of it was uninteresting. We've probably all seen Youtube videos that demonstrate this problem - no matter how interesting or uninteresting the subject may be, it can always be utterly ruined by shaky video, barely-audible narration, excessive commercials, and topic transitions styled after either a machine-gun or molasses. In the same vein, an unprepared or distracted demonstrator, trying to show a system that was not tested at a basic level just prior to the demonstration to ensure it would succeed...is a sad thing to watch.

I would have instead been more positive and I believe, accurate - "...as we've discovered, our audience enjoys a glimpse behind the scenes whether in print or video...if we provide helpful explanations of how it fits into the big picture and make sure it works beforehand."

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Yeah, this is one of the

Yeah, this is one of the reasons we gave up on doing Twitch videos. It took us away from productive work and we seemed to always have some kind of technical issue in that production - probably because we couldn't dedicate the time to both producing the game AND a decent video at the same time. Given that I was one of the people doing those videos I remember our attempts painfully well!

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I am glad to see this update,

I am glad to see this update, It is nice to have a whole lot of relatively specific information in one place. Hopefully this will give the PR team more time going forward to focus on getting the second chance campaign together, rather than answering the same questions over and over.

That said, the one area I do wish was a little more specific was the timeline of release for issue 0. I know you guys are likely allergic to timelines right now, and for good reason after the "Fall 2018" debacle, but it would be nice to see a very soft and general timeline, like "6 months if everything goes well". Just some broad estimate would be nice. I will also say that it is a little puzzling to me how it went from "there was a medical/personal emergency that caused a delay of about 3 months" to now 6 months later with no definitive release date in sight. So overall I think this update was a step in the right direction, but it does leave some unresolved issues for me I hope we can get some clarity on in the near future.

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Cinnder wrote:
Cinnder wrote:

'We’ve spent a lot of time building very important, stable foundations for a development company and video game to stand on. There are legal challenges to be solved, physical hardware and software challenges to be addressed for a development team spread across the world. We’ve committed ourselves to ethical business models and ways of encouraging healthy player involvement. All of these very boring'

I beg to differ. I find that foundational and ethical work to be perhaps the most encouraging aspect of this project!

Thank you, Cinnder. While our business model hasn't really changed since the initial iteration of the business plan I wrote in late 2012 and early 2013, I have continued to put in a significant amount of time towards research and refinement of the scaffolding such foundations tend to become. There's a reason why I've expressed to Nate and Cabbit explicit criteria which govern my decision making over the business administration of the company and project.

I don't think too many people would be surprised to find the Hippocratic Oath somewhere in there..

It is only when we stand up, with all our failings and sufferings, and try to support others rather than withdraw into ourselves, that we can fully live the life of community.

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awesome questions can't want

Awesome questions can't wait to see what you guys are gonna bring in for the game 😉

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Kid Rad wrote:
Kid Rad wrote:

I am glad to see this update, It is nice to have a whole lot of relatively specific information in one place. Hopefully this will give the PR team more time going forward to focus on getting the second chance campaign together, rather than answering the same questions over and over.

That said, the one area I do wish was a little more specific was the timeline of release for issue 0. I know you guys are likely allergic to timelines right now, and for good reason after the "Fall 2018" debacle, but it would be nice to see a very soft and general timeline, like "6 months if everything goes well". Just some broad estimate would be nice. I will also say that it is a little puzzling to me how it went from "there was a medical/personal emergency that caused a delay of about 3 months" to now 6 months later with no definitive release date in sight. So overall I think this update was a step in the right direction, but it does leave some unresolved issues for me I hope we can get some clarity on in the near future.

Timelines are still scary to us. Me, I'm instead focusing on the current status of the various plugins and projects and making some of that info easier to access, instead of trying to estimate how far along they might be in the future.

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I don’t want to see an

I don’t want to see an estimate ever. That didn’t work out in the past and giving an estimate you can’t meet just hurts you. I want to know when you’re certain it’s coming out; not one of those “we’ll release by this point if everything goes well” deals, because everything won’t go well. Instead, if it’s all ready and you’re just waiting for a convention to end or after a holiday or whatever, then let us know. If all the technical and legal stuff needed for Issue #0 is 100% done, then give us a date.

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Atama wrote:
Atama wrote:

I don’t want to see an estimate ever. That didn’t work out in the past and giving an estimate you can’t meet just hurts you. I want to know when you’re certain it’s coming out; not one of those “we’ll release by this point if everything goes well” deals, because everything won’t go well. Instead, if it’s all ready and you’re just waiting for a convention to end or after a holiday or whatever, then let us know. If all the technical and legal stuff needed for Issue #0 is 100% done, then give us a date.

Esp since Issue 0 will basically be alpha 0, and not quite yet taking dollars. A date isn't as helpful.


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Kid Rad wrote:
Kid Rad wrote:

That said, the one area I do wish was a little more specific was the timeline of release for issue 0. I know you guys are likely allergic to timelines right now, and for good reason after the "Fall 2018" debacle, but it would be nice to see a very soft and general timeline, like "6 months if everything goes well". Just some broad estimate would be nice. I will also say that it is a little puzzling to me how it went from "there was a medical/personal emergency that caused a delay of about 3 months" to now 6 months later with no definitive release date in sight. So overall I think this update was a step in the right direction, but it does leave some unresolved issues for me I hope we can get some clarity on in the near future.

I would be willing to bet there was just much more to getting to release than they realized. I've given up hope of ever getting an explanation on how they fudged so badly on the timeline during the Fall 2018, being weeks away and still saying they were positive release would happen to now 5 months later (well beyond the setback length they said they suffered) and it doesn't seem like we are any closer. It's also possible they have suffered more major setbacks this year and we just don't know about it and/or the scope of the backend work was grossly miscalculated. But that's all in the past and i'm doing my best to forget about it, or at least use it to temper my expectations and realize they have never built an mmo and are likely facing challenges they've never dealt with. If you think about how much less work they are able to get through every week because they are all volunteer with normal jobs, it's easier to understand why it feels like it's taking so long. At least IMO.

They have also added a lot of stuff, officially, to Issue #0 that wasn't in the initial plan....that tends to add on time to any project. And in their case, a lot more time. Unless they add even more stuff they want to Issue #0 on its launch, I'm not expecting it to drop until next year.

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Two interesting tidbits from

Two interesting tidbits from this update's banner. First, the 3rd postcard-like picture seems to be a small section of town; some buildings appear there while others are the blocks that are just place holders. I'm unsure if it is part of Titan City of part or the Issue #0 island; doesn't matter, it's cool to see. I'd love to see the whole picture even with those 'blocks'...there are other seemingly completed buildings in the pic as well.

Second, the second postcard-like picture has a chat window on the top-right corner of the picture. Whether its a late-stage (close to final) UI or placeholder we can't tell. The text says "We're chatting in City of Titans or at least we will be when this eventually gets turned into the real thing." Not sure what that means but you can see the other chat options along the top of the chat window, Global, Chat, Help, Combat are visible tabs. On the bottom is 'Friends' and another that is covered.

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Dark Cleric wrote:
Dark Cleric wrote:

Second, the second postcard-like picture has a chat window on the top-right corner of the picture. Whether its a late-stage (close to final) UI or placeholder we can't tell. The text says "We're chatting in City of Titans or at least we will be when this eventually gets turned into the real thing." Not sure what that means but you can see the other chat options along the top of the chat window, Global, Chat, Help, Combat are visible tabs. On the bottom is 'Friends' and another that is covered.

Hmm. Not sure how much I can share on that second postcard but sometimes things could just be placeholders, as in, nothing is final.

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Wolfgang8565 wrote:
Wolfgang8565 wrote:

...sometimes things could just be placeholders, as in, nothing is final.

...that's what I said...

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Actually, you said, "Whether

Actually, you said, "Whether its a late-stage (close to final) UI or placeholder we can't tell."

I was mostly trying to say it was the latter.

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Yes. In other words, "if it

Yes. In other words, "if it's this or that, we cant tell by the picture." Being a placeholder was one of the two options I said it could be. Your comment was basically saying "or it could be a placeholder" which is why I'm confused lol

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Dark Cleric wrote:
Dark Cleric wrote:

Yes. In other words, "if it's this or that, we cant tell by the picture." Being a placeholder was one of the two options I said it could be. Your comment was basically saying "or it could be a placeholder" which is why I'm confused lol

Well, id clarify what I mean a bit more but idk what I can share so lets just leave this in a state of confusion and maybe someone with more authority can get into the details. :P

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No worries, I'm not asking

No worries, I'm not asking for clarification. It's just a chat box lol I dont specifically care if that one in the picture is final or not, I was just pointing out that there was one for anyone that missed it. I'm sure there are other people that would care more to know, though. I mean, even if it's a placeholder I can't imagine itll change a whole lot....it looks fine from what I can tell.

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Well, DC, the disruptions in

Well, DC, the disruptions in my personal life slowed down my part of the project substantially (I told you about that a few days ago). Since I'm the guy handling project integration and release you can well imagine how that dominoed! We figured I'd be back on my feet sooner than has actually happened. And in the process of me getting things going again I found we had to rework a vital sub-project completely so it would be able to integrate with the whole. We've got a few new tech people now to help but I have to get them trained up to my level. How's your background in project documentation? We could really use some help there! Of course with your recent move (did I remember that right?) I can well imagine you have your hands full enough already.

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avelworldcreator wrote:
avelworldcreator wrote:

Well, DC, the disruptions in my personal life slowed down my part of the project substantially (I told you about that a few days ago). Since I'm the guy handling project integration and release you can well imagine how that dominoed! We figured I'd be back on my feet sooner than has actually happened. And in the process of me getting things going again I found we had to rework a vital sub-project completely so it would be able to integrate with the whole. We've got a few new tech people now to help but I have to get them trained up to my level. How's your background in project documentation? We could really use some help there! Of course with your recent move (did I remember that right?) I can well imagine you have your hands full enough already.

I don't have any professional background in project documentation, unfortunately. I work in finance in the defensive contracting world but I highly doubt MWM has need of Earned Value management lol when i first found these forums and learned about the project I tried to think of any skills I had that could benefit the team but, unfortunately, I am not a coder, programmer, or software wizard and I don't have any experience with modeling or graphic design. i am an author by hobby that doesn't really help either...and who knows if I am any good at it.

Honestly, inspite of my critiques/reservations/doubts, if I had any skills to offer the team I would. I could spare an hour or two a day if there was something I could *actually* do to be of value, but unless you need some financial management, budgeting, or analysis help I can't really be of any service.

Yes, you remembered that right. I moved across the country (west to east) for my current job.

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We're a corporation. Several

We're a corporation. Several of our team are from (and still are AFAIK) defense contracting. Finance? Hell, yeah! You have my endorsement. Our goal is to have that second funding round to be able to go fully professional. Of course you can help!!

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Cinnder wrote:
Cinnder wrote:

'We’ve spent a lot of time building very important, stable foundations for a development company and video game to stand on. There are legal challenges to be solved, physical hardware and software challenges to be addressed for a development team spread across the world. We’ve committed ourselves to ethical business models and ways of encouraging healthy player involvement. All of these very boring'

I beg to differ. I find that foundational and ethical work to be perhaps the most encouraging aspect of this project!

Seconded!

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If you guys ever need a

If you guys ever need a corporate janitor. I"ll send a resume

The needs of the many , far outweigh the needs of the few . Or the one.

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Corporate janitor?

Corporate janitor?

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Questions for the Devs: Is

Questions for the Devs: Is the zone for Issue Zero completed? Are we just waiting for the Chargen to be completed?
Considering we don't have to worry about powers, is the Zone ready to drop our avatars into ready to go?

Also I'm told there will be no energy melee power sets for launch. How long does it take to make a power set like that ready for play? Is it possible to adapt an existing power set and just tell the server this is now energy or exotic damage? (I am not a programmer and these things are alien to cavemen like me)

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DEPTH CHARGED wrote:
DEPTH CHARGED wrote:

If you guys ever need a corporate janitor. I"ll send a resume

Being a janitor might be difficult. I imagine it would involve flying around the world to go into people’s houses to clean for them.

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Cyclops wrote:
Cyclops wrote:

Questions for the Devs: Is the zone for Issue Zero completed? Are we just waiting for the Chargen to be completed?
Considering we don't have to worry about powers, is the Zone ready to drop our avatars into ready to go?

Also I'm told there will be no energy melee power sets for launch. How long does it take to make a power set like that ready for play? Is it possible to adapt an existing power set and just tell the server this is now energy or exotic damage? (I am not a programmer and these things are alien to cavemen like me)

We have a zone for Issue #0. Have you see that island with the lighthouse for the Fourth of July video? And that Christmas video with Santa and the elf? That's the test area. It's absolutely complete and functional. That one has been available for months. Unless it involves custom buildings and such small zone maps are pretty easy to put together from existing assets. The island has only a handful of custom items to worry about so the artist had it done fairly quickly. The full map? Not so quickly!

I have no idea how the powers are being implemented. Hopefully someone else can answer that.

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Atama wrote:
Atama wrote:
DEPTH CHARGED wrote:

If you guys ever need a corporate janitor. I"ll send a resume

Being a janitor might be difficult. I imagine it would involve flying around the world to go into people’s houses to clean for them.

Maybe he was alluding to how supposedly some of the very earliest Apple employees are now multi-millionaires. ;)

As the story goes when Apple was first getting started they couldn't afford to pay anyone with "real" money so many of the first people got paid in stock options instead. Of course at the time those stocks were worthless but the people who managed to hang on ended up with their stocks becoming worth millions. Apparently there were a handful of building custodians and guards who made out like bandits just because they were in the right place at the right time. ;)

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Cyclops wrote:
Cyclops wrote:

Also I'm told there will be no energy melee power sets for launch. How long does it take to make a power set like that ready for play? Is it possible to adapt an existing power set and just tell the server this is now energy or exotic damage? (I am not a programmer and these things are alien to cavemen like me.

Let me try to clarify the “energy melee” Power Set Issue for you. Energy Melee as far as the appearance of it is just that, an aesthetic. Making particle fx isn’t very difficult. That is part of the aesthetic decoupling system.

If you want a Power Set that is Melee and mainly has single target attacks, you will look at either Super Strength or Kinetic Melee for now.

If you want to know how ling it takes to make a Power Set, once the system is completed, it will take me roughly a half hour but that is because I know the system and have the launch sets pre-planned.

To make a new power set would take longer, as it may require additional coding if certain mechanics aren’t already coded yet, or additional conditions (a modifier system we use for how powers behave) need to be coded. Then there is preliminary testing to gauge the effectiveness of the base line and improved functionality of a Power Set to tweak the numbers for in game testing.

Either way once the Power Set is made in engine, then we have to test it internally. We have to test for things like functionality - does it work right? Fun - is this fun to play? Performance - does this operate within our established bounds? Are they edge cases or is this a niche?

If you want to know more, I suggest you check the link in the update for power sets to see what is being offered at launch. Remember, what you are looking for is what the set does (or how it plays) and can make it look like how you want separately.


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Atama wrote:
Atama wrote:
DEPTH CHARGED wrote:

If you guys ever need a corporate janitor. I"ll send a resume

Being a janitor might be difficult. I imagine it would involve flying around the world to go into people’s houses to clean for them.

but if someone wants to volunteer to clean my house, I don't think I'd object too much.

MWM Editor- Public Relations Team Lead -All Purpose Frog

Wait until you see the... nope, that would ruin the surprise.

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Wolfgang8565 wrote:
Wolfgang8565 wrote:
Dark Cleric wrote:

Yes. In other words, "if it's this or that, we cant tell by the picture." Being a placeholder was one of the two options I said it could be. Your comment was basically saying "or it could be a placeholder" which is why I'm confused lol

Well, id clarify what I mean a bit more but idk what I can share so lets just leave this in a state of confusion and maybe someone with more authority can get into the details. :P

We are not above dropping a few hints here and there.

MWM Editor- Public Relations Team Lead -All Purpose Frog

Wait until you see the... nope, that would ruin the surprise.

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Tannim222 wrote:
Tannim222 wrote:
Cyclops wrote:

Also I'm told there will be no energy melee power sets for launch. How long does it take to make a power set like that ready for play? Is it possible to adapt an existing power set and just tell the server this is now energy or exotic damage? (I am not a programmer and these things are alien to cavemen like me.

Let me try to clarify the “energy melee” Power Set Issue for you. Energy Melee as far as the appearance of it is just that, an aesthetic. Making particle fx isn’t very difficult. That is part of the aesthetic decoupling system.

I think the question is about melee doing something other than physical damage. Even if your fists crackle with lightning or are covered in flames you’re still doing physical damage. We discussed it previously in this thread:
https://cityoftitans.com/forum/melee-set-question

So the question is about when (if ever?) you could have melee attacks that do something other than physical damage.

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Atama wrote:
Atama wrote:
Tannim222 wrote:
Cyclops wrote:

Also I'm told there will be no energy melee power sets for launch. How long does it take to make a power set like that ready for play? Is it possible to adapt an existing power set and just tell the server this is now energy or exotic damage? (I am not a programmer and these things are alien to cavemen like me.

Let me try to clarify the “energy melee” Power Set Issue for you. Energy Melee as far as the appearance of it is just that, an aesthetic. Making particle fx isn’t very difficult. That is part of the aesthetic decoupling system.

I think the question is about melee doing something other than physical damage. Even if your fists crackle with lightning or are covered in flames you’re still doing physical damage. We discussed it previously in this thread:
https://cityoftitans.com/forum/melee-set-question

So the question is about when (if ever?) you could have melee attacks that do something other than physical damage.

Bingo. I'm looking to get melee energy and exotic damage types...more than just aesthetics. actual damage types.
~~is it possible to take an existing melee set and just change the damage to energy?

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Last I checked (awhile ago),

Last I checked (awhile ago), you can add additional damage Refinements (analogous to enhacements from CoH) to add or split the damage into energy or exotic along with physical.


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Cyclops wrote:
Cyclops wrote:
Atama wrote:
Tannim222 wrote:
Cyclops wrote:

Also I'm told there will be no energy melee power sets for launch. How long does it take to make a power set like that ready for play? Is it possible to adapt an existing power set and just tell the server this is now energy or exotic damage? (I am not a programmer and these things are alien to cavemen like me.

Let me try to clarify the “energy melee” Power Set Issue for you. Energy Melee as far as the appearance of it is just that, an aesthetic. Making particle fx isn’t very difficult. That is part of the aesthetic decoupling system.

I think the question is about melee doing something other than physical damage. Even if your fists crackle with lightning or are covered in flames you’re still doing physical damage. We discussed it previously in this thread:
https://cityoftitans.com/forum/melee-set-question

So the question is about when (if ever?) you could have melee attacks that do something other than physical damage.

Bingo. I'm looking to get melee energy and exotic damage types...more than just aesthetics. actual damage types.
~~is it possible to take an existing melee set and just change the damage to energy?

Ahh ok. Well for launch the Melee sets are all physical damage. We do have plans for post-launch Melee Sets with different damage types.

DesViper wrote:

Last I checked (awhile ago), you can add additional damage Refinements (analogous to enhacements from CoH) to add or split the damage into energy or exotic along with physical.

That was an early example of a Set Booster. Changing damage types through a Set Booster is not guaranteed for launch.


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It was such a good example

It was such a good example though! :p


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Oh. Still a hard "no" on

Oh. Still a hard "no" on weapon auras?


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I don't know. I'd have to

I don't know. I'd have to check. Only reason I can conceive of us not having such auras would be performance.

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Lothic hit the nail on the

Maybe he was alluding to how supposedly some of the very earliest Apple employees are now multi-millionaires. ;)

As the story goes when Apple was first getting started they couldn't afford to pay anyone with "real" money so many of the first people got paid in stock options instead. Of course at the time those stocks were worthless but the people who managed to hang on ended up with their stocks becoming worth millions. Apparently there were a handful of building custodians and guards who made out like bandits just because they were in the right place at the right time. ;)

Lothic hit the nail on the head

The needs of the many , far outweigh the needs of the few . Or the one.

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Tannim222 wrote:
Tannim222 wrote:

Ahh ok. Well for launch the Melee sets are all physical damage. We do have plans for post-launch Melee Sets with different damage types.

Thank you, sir.

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I still want to know what the

I still want to know what the other missing continent is. Africa?

Spurn all ye kindle.

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#AntarticaIsntAContinent

#AntarticaIsntAContinent


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It's more of a continent than

It's more of a continent than Pluto is a planet! :-p

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Hey I'll give you that, but

Hey I'll give you that, but if Antarctica is a continent so is Honshu, Japan:p


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I believe the notional

I believe the notional definition of a continent is 'creates its own weather'. Thus Japan experiences the clash between Oceanic weather and China, but doesn't 'cause' weather. In geography class, lo, these many-many moons ago, I was taught that the seven 'continents' included Antarctica. Of course, at the same time, Pluto was counted as a planet, so things can change.

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I'm also big on Eurasia.

I'm also big on Eurasia. Those are not separate landmasses, no.


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Are you folks trying to

Are you folks trying to distract me from the fact that we don't have an answer to the question from MWM? :-p

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Cinnder wrote:
DesViper wrote:

#AntarticaIsntAContinent

Of course it's not a continent. That's what -they- want you to think.

Everyone knows Antarctica is a 300 foot wall of ice that surrounds the outer edge of the Earth to keep the ocean water from spilling over the sides. This wall of course is guarded by a combination of NASA (you know, that agency that has trillions in funding and fakes all that satellite/moon landing stuff) and those evil "Globalists" who want to keep everyone thinking the Earth is round...

Cinnder wrote:

Are you folks trying to distract me from the fact that we don't have an answer to the question from MWM? :-p

Maybe the answer to your question is as lost as Zealandia is. ;)

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Ok, I didn't really think

Ok, I didn't really think about it before but when I read the Primer I saw "or maybe even bees" under the Aesthetic Decoupling section. Now I really hope that there is insect swarms for ability animations. XD

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.Foresight wrote:
.Foresight wrote:

Ok, I didn't really think about it before but when I read the Primer I saw "or maybe even bees" under the Aesthetic Decoupling section. Now I really hope that there is insect swarms for ability animations. XD

Pretty sure that kind of thing has long been listed in the Animation Suggestion thread.

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Lol it's actually on there

Lol it's actually on there twice :p Under animals summoning and swarm summoning.


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CoH let you summon bees, I

CoH let you summon bees, I expect CoT can.

I want to summon dogs with bees in their mouths that shoot bees when they bark.

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North/Central America, Europe

North/Central America, Europe, Asia, South America... I can't remember the fifth.

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Australia. But our National

Australia. But our National Broadband Network means that most of our population couldn't work collaboratively on something like developing a MMO ;)

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and of course Africa.

and of course Africa.

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DesViper wrote:
DesViper wrote:

#AntarticaIsntAContinent

Wikipedia wrote:

At 14,200,000 square kilometres (5,500,000 square miles), it is the fifth-largest continent. For comparison, Antarctica is nearly twice the size of Australia.

Ask Sir Ranulph Fiennes; he's crossed it a couple of times.

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Is Ice land? Why isn't

Is Ice land? Why isn't Arctica a continent fusing all of the Americas and Afro-Eurasia into a megacontinent? I mean it's still Pangaea


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DesViper wrote:
DesViper wrote:

Is Ice land? Why isn't Arctica a continent fusing all of the Americas and Afro-Eurasia into a megacontinent? I mean it's still Pangaea

We don’t judge other solid landmasses by composition. International geographic consensus confirms its status as a continent regardless of some people’s personal views of the situation.

I often see it argued that Australia is just a big island and not a continent either. I also don’t give that assertion much weight.

Antarctica isn’t a big chunk of ice. It’s a continent covered in ice. How much of it is land and how much is ice, exactly, is difficult to determine exactly, because of all the ice.

Fun fact... Antarctica used to be called Australia. What we know today as Australia was once called New Holland, as recently as the 1850s.

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Hey I'm on team Australia is

Hey I'm on team Australia is a continent, but Antarctica is an ice sheet over islands or there're only two continents: Arctic-Afro-Eurasiamerica and Australia :p


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avelworldcreator wrote:
avelworldcreator wrote:

North/Central America, Europe, Asia, South America... I can't remember the fifth.

slacktech wrote:

Australia. But our National Broadband Network means that most of our population couldn't work collaboratively on something like developing a MMO ;)

and of course Africa.

I think Avel was trying to answer my question of which continents have MWM devs on them, not trying to name all the continents.

I guess it shall remain a mystery! Perhaps it's better that way. :-)

Spurn all ye kindle.

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DesViper wrote:
DesViper wrote:

Hey I'm on team Australia is a continent, but Antarctica is an ice sheet over islands or there're only two continents: Arctic-Afro-Eurasiamerica and Australia :p

Even if you consider them separate islands covered in ice, Greater/East Antarctica is still bigger than Australia. It’s a contiguous plateau. West Antarctica is covering an archipelago. You’re really splitting hairs here.

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This seems to be the current

This seems to be the current topography; users note that without the ice overburden, the land would rise, but if the ice melted, sea levels would rise.

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Atama wrote:
Atama wrote:
DesViper wrote:

Is Ice land?

Antarctica isn’t a big chunk of ice. It’s a continent covered in ice. How much of it is land and how much is ice, exactly, is difficult to determine exactly, because of all the ice.

It almost seems like DesViper is confusing the Antarctic with the Arctic. There is in fact no "land" at the North Pole (arctic). It's all ice over water up there (at least until 'Climate Change' gets rid of it all). But there is definitely a huge chunk of land at the South Pole (antarctic).

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No, what I'm saying is that

No, what I'm saying is that if we count the ice shelf on top of Antarctica as continental land, then we have to count the ice shelf on the Arctic (without any land below), which would fuse Afro-Eurasia and The Americas, into basically Pangaea.

Yeah I think you have to count if the ice melts (which it will :( ) not Snap it out of existence.


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DesViper wrote:
DesViper wrote:

No, what I'm saying is that if we count the ice shelf on top of Antarctica as continental land, then we have to count the ice shelf on the Arctic (without any land below), which would fuse Afro-Eurasia and The Americas, into basically Pangaea.

Yeah I think you have to count if the ice melts (which it will :( ) not Snap it out of existence.

Yeah but who counts ice as a factor in determining what counts as a continent? Just because our nomadic ancestors had a penchant for ice-bridges doesn't make them citizens of Pangaea. ;)

Fun fact: They think in like a couple of billions years all the current separated continents will drift back together again to form a new actual Pangaea (made of land). What goes around comes around I guess.

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So the question is (btw

So the question is (btw totally unrelated to the update at this point so let's wrap this up) do we pretend the ice doesn't exist, or simulate melting it (, or wait for it to melt over the next decades)?

I say melt it (again, since it's going to melt) and see how big the islands are, and probably smaller than Australia...ergo, not a continent.


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DesViper wrote:
DesViper wrote:

I say melt it (again, since it's going to melt) and see how big the islands are, and probably smaller than Australia...ergo, not a continent.

I think we're reasonably sure how much actual land is down there - we've never needed to wait for the "ice to melt" to find out. Where do you think maps like the one Foradain provided came from:

Satellites can do amazing things now-a-days. Space based sensors can (relatively) easily tell what's land and what isn't even under ice. ;)

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I think we need a finer

I think we need a finer vertical scale on that map I found, to see how much of that first half a mile of altitude (the dark green) would still be above the projected no-ice-left sea level, before we go claiming it's smaller than Australia. Also, is that Australia as it is now, or Australia after the ice melts? *goes to look up total glacial ice amount*
Edit:
Earth surface area = 510 million square kilometers
Ocean surface is currently about 71% of that, so = 362 million square kilometers
Total ice on earth = 30 million cubic kilometers, (I'm sure we shouldn't count floating ice, but I don't know how much it is, so for now I ignore it)
30 km^3/362 km^2 = about 83 meters. So what we really want to know is, how much of that first 2,500 feet is above 272 feet?

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Foradain wrote:
Foradain wrote:

I think we need a finer vertical scale on that map I found, to see how much of that first half a mile of altitude (the dark green) would still be above the projected no-ice-left sea level, before we go claiming it's smaller than Australia. Also, is that Australia as it is now, or Australia after the ice melts? *goes to look up total glacial ice amount*

When considering ice melts in relation to continent size it's probably just easier to consider "current sea level" as a fixed constant. Sure global warming and/or ice ages could easily change that value by many meters either way but let's not "speculate" on hypotheticals and just measure the current amount of land above sea level today regardless if that land is under ice or not.

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Back to the question: since

Back to the question: since Ice is now Land, I'm betting we have CoT Devs on all two continents :p


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DesViper wrote:
DesViper wrote:

Back to the question: since Ice is now Land, I'm betting we have CoT Devs on all two continents :p

Trust me... absolutely no one counts ice as land for determining what is or isn't a continent.

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We're just not counting Ice

We're just not counting Ice as Ocean unless it's floating, or, extends to below sea level.

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Ice is land.

Ice is land.

Water is melted ice.

Ergo, everything on the planet’s surface is land.

ONE BIG CONTINENT

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