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CUSTOMIZABLE Dream Minions for the Operator

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Lothic
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Wolfgang8565 wrote:
Wolfgang8565 wrote:

Lol well the really good ones, you couldn't even get close to the actual player.

Yeah I always just figured there was no middle ground with them since they were relatively hard to play properly. Either you were a really good Mastermind PvPer or gank fodder. I think the good ones actually looked up every once in a while - most of the ones I easily popped seemed to suffer from "two dimensional thinking". ;)

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The only time any of my

The only time any of my Masterminds lost in PvP was when someone teleported Dusty Enalios far enough away from her bots that the bots could not find her. This happened once.

Now, granted, I did not spend much time in PvP zones. And when I was there, I was completely paranoid and spinning the camera constantly.

I slotted the pets and pet powers for debuffs and accuracy as heavily as I could. Any remaining slots then went into power multiplication. When I bought sets, I focused on sets that multiplied debuff effects even further. Provided I survived the first hit, I could strip a wannabe ganker down to their skivvies and slap'em on the bum long before they could get in enough follow up damage to overcome Bodyguard.

I don't know if this strategy would be appropriate for a hardcore PvP Mastermind, but it enhanced my survivability in both boss fights and PvP ambushes.

As much as I dislike PvP, there is something very satisfying about being unexpectedly hit by a Stealthed Hero only to have the bots Knockback send them skidding halfway across the zone...

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Greyhawk wrote:
Greyhawk wrote:

The only time any of my Masterminds lost in PvP was when someone teleported Dusty Enalios far enough away from her bots that the bots could not find her. This happened once.
Now, granted, I did not spend much time in PvP zones. And when I was there, I was completely paranoid and spinning the camera constantly.
I slotted the pets and pet powers for debuffs and accuracy as heavily as I could. Any remaining slots then went into power multiplication. When I bought sets, I focused on sets that multiplied debuff effects even further. Provided I survived the first hit, I could strip a wannabe ganker down to their skivvies and slap'em on the bum long before they could get in enough follow up damage to overcome Bodyguard.
I don't know if this strategy would be appropriate for a hardcore PvP Mastermind, but it enhanced my survivability in both boss fights and PvP ambushes.
As much as I dislike PvP, there is something very satisfying about being unexpectedly hit by a Stealthed Hero only to have the bots Knockback send them skidding halfway across the zone...

I never denied the possibility of the existence of competent Mastermind PvPers. I just didn't run into many of them. *shrugs*

Out of my various PvE friends I only knew one who I considered an "expert Mastermind jockey" and for what it's worth I don't believe she PvP'd much. My guess is that she would've been pretty good at it all things considered.

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Greyhawk wrote:
Greyhawk wrote:

The only time any of my Masterminds lost in PvP was when someone teleported Dusty Enalios far enough away from her bots that the bots could not find her. This happened once.
Now, granted, I did not spend much time in PvP zones. And when I was there, I was completely paranoid and spinning the camera constantly.
I slotted the pets and pet powers for debuffs and accuracy as heavily as I could. Any remaining slots then went into power multiplication. When I bought sets, I focused on sets that multiplied debuff effects even further. Provided I survived the first hit, I could strip a wannabe ganker down to their skivvies and slap'em on the bum long before they could get in enough follow up damage to overcome Bodyguard.
I don't know if this strategy would be appropriate for a hardcore PvP Mastermind, but it enhanced my survivability in both boss fights and PvP ambushes.
As much as I dislike PvP, there is something very satisfying about being unexpectedly hit by a Stealthed Hero only to have the bots Knockback send them skidding halfway across the zone...

Ha! That's awesome. Yeah TP Foe would sometimes be the only way to kill a MM, but even then they had a few tricks up their sleeves to survive a tp until their minions arrived and they could start setting traps and defenses up again.

Sometimes, to feel a little safe I would stand next to an MM and give them whatever buffs I had in silent exchange for their protection. But as soon as the MM died and their minions dropped, I would phase and run lol.

One thing I couldn't stand as an MM was how long it took to call out all the minions, and buff them and set up my own little area. One of the reasons I quickly gave up on that AT.

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... Catgirls could work...

... Catgirls could work...

... and if we put them in steampunk robots...

... maybe not.

Has anyone seen my mind? It was right here...

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Lin Chiao Feng wrote:
Lin Chiao Feng wrote:

... Catgirls could work...

... and if we put them in steampunk robots...

... maybe not.

Muahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

My day of reckoning is at hand! https://cityoftitans.com/forum/cat-girl-operator

Now if I could just find some way to encourage fishing... https://cityoftitans.com/forum/how-about-fishing-too-crazy

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Greyhawk wrote:
Greyhawk wrote:

My day of reckoning is at hand! https://cityoftitans.com/forum/cat-girl-operator
Now if I could just find some way to encourage fishing... https://cityoftitans.com/forum/how-about-fishing-too-crazy

You know I was never really "sympathetic" to your idea of copying the mini-game of fishing (something that it seems every other MMO does) into CoT. Just look at my old responses on your fishing thread. But for what it's worth I'm much more amenable to the idea of a cat-girl-operator (or at least of being able to customize henchmen to look like cat-girls).

So because of that I might be willing to let the fishing into CoT if for no other reason than to give the kitty-girls something to eat. Kitty-num-nums! ;)

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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/em begins scanning the skies

/em begins scanning the skies for Amerikatt


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It is safe to say this aint

It is safe to say this aint happening.

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Phararri wrote:
Phararri wrote:

It is safe to say this aint happening.

Not at launch, no.

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Cyclops wrote:
Cyclops wrote:
Phararri wrote:

It is safe to say this aint happening.

Not at launch, no.

It's probably safe to say customized minions that don't use the basic human male/female body models aren't going to happen for launch (or even for some time after launch).

But it's possible that having customized humanoid minions might happen relatively soon because all they'd need to do is let us design them with the same exact character creator we're going to use for our own player characters. The only extra bit needed would be some kind of GUI that would let us assign specific body and costume save files to "overwrite" the generic minion designs for each minion. In all actuality that might be so relatively easy to do that we might even see some version of that by launch time.

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Last I checked, we're not

Last I checked, we're not even getting minions at launch :/

I suppose there could be humanoid-ish minions in control sets, though i never understood the purpose.

"A delayed game is eventually good, but a rushed game is forever bad"

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desviper wrote:
desviper wrote:

Last I checked, we're not even getting minions at launch :/

Oh well... It was probably because they didn't want to launch them without jiggle and if they couldn't figure out jiggle before launch then obviously we couldn't have minions either. ;)

desviper wrote:

I suppose there could be humanoid-ish minions in control sets, though i never understood the purpose.

What did you not understand? Why Control sets had pets at all or why anyone would want a version of those "pets" to be human shaped?

Actually the thing I'd still want (which should not be that technically radical to do software wise) is the ability to have a customizable "sidekick pet". Basically as you might recall CoH offered us non-combat vanity pets (like the original vet pets) that basically followed you around and looked cute. All I'm asking for is the ability to use the main character creator (again the same one we'll use for our own player characters) to create a "costume skin" that could be used on this customizable pet so that it could look like whatever we wanted (within humanoid limits of course).

This customizable "sidekick pet" would basically take the vanity pet idea (which already existed in CoH) and just allow us to assign a pre-designed costume/body to it. This way you could always have "sidekick" follow you around and have him/her look however you wanted.

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Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:

desviper wrote:
Last I checked, we're not even getting minions at launch :/
Oh well... It was probably because they didn't want to launch them without jiggle and if they couldn't figure out jiggle before launch then obviously we couldn't have minions either. ;)

<_<

* taps foot.

Has anyone seen my mind? It was right here...

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Lin Chiao Feng wrote:
Lin Chiao Feng wrote:

<_<
* taps foot.

Ah come on... you know that was sort of funny in a mildly sad way. ;)

Anyway I'll still cling to my "sidekick vanity pet" idea since all that's doing is connecting a proven CoH technology (vanity pets) to the savable costume/body tech that's already been confirmed for CoT.

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desviper wrote:
desviper wrote:

Last I checked, we're not even getting minions at launch :/
I suppose there could be humanoid-ish minions in control sets, though i never understood the purpose.

Pretty sure that "launch" here in this thread refers more to the launch of the pets system itself rather than the launch of the game.

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blacke4dawn wrote:
blacke4dawn wrote:

desviper wrote:
Last I checked, we're not even getting minions at launch :/
I suppose there could be humanoid-ish minions in control sets, though i never understood the purpose.
Pretty sure that "launch" here in this thread refers more to the launch of the pets system itself rather than the launch of the game.

Pretty sure the titanic glossary states "launch" means launch of the game ;)

And yeah, I wondered why control sets included pets.

"A delayed game is eventually good, but a rushed game is forever bad"

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desviper wrote:
desviper wrote:

And yeah, I wondered why control sets included pets.

Pets specifically helped Controllers in at least two ways:

First most of the pets provided more DPS output which was obviously helpful to them since the Controller AT by itself likely did the least amount of DPS in the game. If a Controller could make it to level 32 (the level most of the Controller powersets got their pet power) they usually gained a relatively big boost in their DPS output with the pets.

But beyond the offensive upgrade they also got what amounted to their own personal "meatshields". Obviously a Controller pet was not pound-for-pound as good as having an actual Tank involved but for the Controller who knew how to use them their pets were amazing aggro magnets giving the Controller time to lock down the MOBs before they were themselves targeted.

Basically Controller pets completed the AT by providing the high level Controller far more survivability and soloability than a lower level Controller started off with. Controllers had pets for the most part because the class was effectively designed to work with a team, even if the player (with pets) had to be "the team" all by themselves. The pets filled in the "gap" in capabilities that the Controller AT had by design.

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I played a gravity controller

I played a gravity controller. All my pet did was sling more holds out. Combined with Kinetic as a secondary, I was every scrapper's best friend though. Transferance, Transfusion, Speed Boost, mez effects, you name it.

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Radiac wrote:
Radiac wrote:

I played a gravity controller. All my pet did was sling more holds out. Combined with Kinetic as a secondary, I was every scrapper's best friend though. Transferance, Transfusion, Speed Boost, mez effects, you name it.

Yep I realized that some Controller pets only tossed out Mezs (not damage) and other Controller powersets (like Mind) didn't even have pets. That's why I kept using words like "most" when describing that MOST Controller pets helped out with extra DPS.

In your case (with Gravity) your Singularity was much more effective as a pure defensive "blocker/mezzer" (with its Knockback) and the Mind Controllers didn't even have a pet because their Mezs were among the most powerful of all the various Controller powersets so apparently the Devs decided they didn't need the "extra help" of pets. On the other end of the spectrum Fire Controller Mezs were relatively weaker so they were counterbalanced with 3 Fire Imps which were arguably one of the most DPS oriented Controller pet.

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Well, let's not forget the

Well, let's not forget the Mighty Mr. Poo, Ice Baby, or the Flaming Monkey Brothers. They all did their part for the Controller.

Be Well!
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Fireheart wrote:
Fireheart wrote:

Well, let's not forget the Mighty Mr. Poo, Ice Baby, or the Flaming Monkey Brothers. They all did their part for the Controller.

I didn't forget them - I implied their existence when I said "most" Controllers had pets. ;)

Generally speaking the more relatively powerful the particular Controller powerset in question was Mez-wise the generally -less- effective their pets were DPS-wise. In this way the pets served as a means to collectively balance the overall strength of the Controller powersets against each other.

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Would've been awesome to have

Would've been awesome to have a mind pet where its this floating brain made out of psy energy and once in a while it would telekinetically knockback foes or confuse or sleep...

I don't know how useful it would be but yeah...

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Wolfgang8565 wrote:
Wolfgang8565 wrote:

Would've been awesome to have a mind pet where its this floating brain made out of psy energy and once in a while it would telekinetically knockback foes or confuse or sleep...
I don't know how useful it would be but yeah...

It might have been cool (like the brains from Futurama) but like I mentioned I'm pretty sure the main reason Mind Controllers didn't get a pet was because their innate control powers were considered strong enough that they didn't need the extra help. My guess is that people would still like to have a "super-strong petless Mind Controller" powerset as an option in CoT instead of having a weaker version of Mind control that needs the pet. There will be plenty of other options if you want a Controller with pet(s).

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Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:

desviper wrote:
And yeah, I wondered why control sets included pets.
Pets specifically helped Controllers in at least two ways:
First most of the pets provided more DPS output which was obviously helpful to them since the Controller AT by itself likely did the least amount of DPS in the game. If a Controller could make it to level 32 (the level most of the Controller powersets got their pet power) they usually gained a relatively big boost in their DPS output with the pets.
But beyond the offensive upgrade they also got what amounted to their own personal "meatshields". Obviously a Controller pet was not pound-for-pound as good as having an actual Tank involved but for the Controller who knew how to use them their pets were amazing aggro magnets giving the Controller time to lock down the MOBs before they were themselves targeted.
Basically Controller pets completed the AT by providing the high level Controller far more survivability and soloability than a lower level Controller started off with. Controllers had pets for the most part because the class was effectively designed to work with a team, even if the player (with pets) had to be "the team" all by themselves. The pets filled in the "gap" in capabilities that the Controller AT had by design.

Good explanation :)

I get a bit out of touch with blueside, since I think of Dominator as the control archetype, which has dandy DPS.

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desviper wrote:
desviper wrote:

Good explanation :)

I get a bit out of touch with blueside, since I think of Dominator as the control archetype, which has dandy DPS.

Thanks. Clearly if you always thought that the Controller AT lacked DPS output (which was arguably the case) then the Dominator was your answer for that. By dropping the Support secondary for Doms' Assault secondary the Dom gained obvious offensive capability.

What was interesting about the Dominator AT was that their default Control powers were across the board LESS effective than their Controller equivalents. This was likely the sacrifice they had to suffer in order to justify the greater DPS output. But to further complicate things they got their Domination AT power which -temporarily- boosted their Control powers to levels BEYOND the default Controllers. Of course you had to be careful how you managed the Domination power and it was tricky to get it to work exactly when you needed it.

In general most people who hated how "slow/weak" Controllers were DPS-wise probably loved how Dominators worked. What I'm interested in (and I've mentioned this several times in these forums already) is the Mez/Ranged class that CoT is planning to provide. Instead of a Dominator who had a mix of melee and ranged offensive powers this new class should be more completely ranged Mez/offense oriented. We'll see how'll it works out.

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wow I had forgotten

wow I had forgotten completely about domination! I miss my plant/thorn dom... :(

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Assault corgis?

Assault corgis?

(insert pithy comment here)

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Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:

Lin Chiao Feng wrote:
<_<
* taps foot.
Ah come on... you know that was sort of funny in a mildly sad way. ;)
Anyway I'll still cling to my "sidekick vanity pet" idea since all that's doing is connecting a proven CoH technology (vanity pets) to the savable costume/body tech that's already been confirmed for CoT.

It would be nice if it wasn't just vanity, but a tertiary that could be selected.

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Nyxz wrote:
Nyxz wrote:
Lothic wrote:

Anyway I'll still cling to my "sidekick vanity pet" idea since all that's doing is connecting a proven CoH technology (vanity pets) to the savable costume/body tech that's already been confirmed for CoT.

It would be nice if it wasn't just vanity, but a tertiary that could be selected.

Sure that would be nice. But I figure it would be much, much easier for the Devs to implement a vanity version of this instead of combat version.

If you wanted something like this to be "combat capable" you'd have to decide if it was going to be like a Controller Pet (uncontrollable) or like a Mastermind henchmen (player controllable) and then you'd have to decide what powers would it use and make sure those powers were balanced. Basically it would become fairly complicated and therefore less likely to actually happen at all.

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Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:

If you wanted something like this to be "combat capable" you'd have to decide if it was going to be like a Controller Pet (uncontrollable) or like a Mastermind henchmen (player controllable) and then you'd have to decide what powers would it use and make sure those powers were balanced. Basically it would become fairly complicated and therefore less likely to actually happen at all.

Well, MWM has hinted at the possibility for tertiary summons but I can't remember anything beyond that.

As for how to do them then I think they'll be done in the same way as primary/secondary summons with maybe an automatic power progression accounting for the possibly very early level they can be taken at. Personally though I think the uncontrollable type would be the better option here since from a mechanics PoV they wouldn't be the focus of any build.

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blacke4dawn wrote:
blacke4dawn wrote:

Lothic wrote:
If you wanted something like this to be "combat capable" you'd have to decide if it was going to be like a Controller Pet (uncontrollable) or like a Mastermind henchmen (player controllable) and then you'd have to decide what powers would it use and make sure those powers were balanced. Basically it would become fairly complicated and therefore less likely to actually happen at all.
Well, MWM has hinted at the possibility for tertiary summons but I can't remember anything beyond that.
As for how to do them then I think they'll be done in the same way as primary/secondary summons with maybe an automatic power progression accounting for the possibly very early level they can be taken at. Personally though I think the uncontrollable type would be the better option here since from a mechanics PoV they wouldn't be the focus of any build.

Again even if you kept this idea limited to a variation of an uncontrollable Controller pet then you'd still have ask a bunch of extra questions like, "What powers would it use?" Would it be an exact clone of the player's powersets or could the player choose a specific custom powerset for it to use? Then you'd have to worry about the balance issues involved - would having this pet make certain players too powerful or even ALL players too powerful? Trust me when I say the difference in software complexity between a vanity pet and something relatively "simple" like a Fire Imp is significant.

Once again I'm not necessarily AGAINST the idea of having a customizable sidekick pet that would actually be combat capable. I'm just saying I rather have the very simple vanity version than not have anything like it at all because the Devs decide trying to make it combat capable is too hard to deal with. Let's go by the tried and true Keep It Simple Stupid principle so that it would be far more likely to happen at all.

Bottomline the vanity sidekick pet idea should be very workable due to its relatively simplicity. Once they get that working then maybe they could focus on getting something like it be combat capable later on. Baby steps first shall we? ;)

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Fireheart wrote:
Fireheart wrote:

Well, let's not forget the Mighty Mr. Poo, Ice Baby, or the Flaming Monkey Brothers. They all did their part for the Controller.

Pshaw. The best Level 32 Power for Controllers was ... Mass Comedy.


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Redlynne wrote:
Redlynne wrote:

Fireheart wrote:
Well, let's not forget the Mighty Mr. Poo, Ice Baby, or the Flaming Monkey Brothers. They all did their part for the Controller.
Pshaw. The best Level 32 Power for Controllers was ... Mass Comedy.

It's interesting to realize the CoH Devs considered a targeted AoE Confuse power to be roughly equivalent to having a pet of some kind. I guess in effect the Mind Controller was making temporary "pets" out of the very MOBs he/she was facing. ;)

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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