Saw this shared on Google+:
Looking for general feedback - how's this look people?
[img]https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/341cixsV99xXvQkX_P3kdqfQTBVExeWAlCTdaim6OxNYInhG_wqJKxJbrUHSvIbK5GTswlyzCnpolli3MkaJdBUXvvJ0MnQg6nCMtHbUDD-vAOzT8S9j6blrZZVuK4wbLr-5YERdIme2PNjkhzPlW25QYQUhCFVFsoLJfBzTT-KHf61Ru40pa-J3FUucIJhzi04uu3azoivQPWNum0rEswyd-YzqrmEv7EpgGt1tpaFW2Gs585w9KF_k6e596Iux1rbpvlwrBG_YKyPcj7tSnnpSriHuwYOVu5GCqAn5yxyyGqBQeoM=w506-h851[/img]
Given that this hasn't shown up here, and you're probably not going to get much feedback from the 63 folks who have you circled, I hope you don't mind my reposting it here. I moved my comments here, too...
That's pretty much the CoH one verbatim. Personally, I'm annoyed by the lack of indigos.
Current number of colors between primary and secondary colors:
4: G-B
3: V-R
1: O-Y, Y-G
0: R-O, B-V
Need indigo (#8000ff) at least between blue and violet, and red-orange (which gives better browns when desaturated). Would be best if you could have 2-3 between each primary and secondary, say 3 between G-B and 2 between the others, for 20 rows instead of 16.
There really should be a lot more colors, though, 8-bit video is way behind us.
[i]Has anyone seen my mind? It was right here...[/i]
They also posted it on their twitter, and there they replied to someone that a color wheel, or something similar, will also be provided for finer control. Those seem to be just presets, of a sort, which I can deal with.
I always liked the space saving look of this pattern:
[img]http://i.imgur.com/2L2enua.png[/img]
or a bit larger:
[img]http://i.imgur.com/81qS7J5.png[/img]
But I get that it would be much more suitable for a Future Tech like scenery... and I doubt the Avatar Builder will have different UI Themes for Tech, Magic, Science, whatever else.
Perhaps we can have a Hexadecimal numeric field, so we can choose specific colors and not just something approximate? It's a problem I had with the old color-picker, that, sometimes, I could Not get the colors right.
Also, different costume pieces would pick up a given color Differently. I mean, am I the only one that noticed that 'plain tights' gloves took colors differently than the rest of the suit?
[URL=http://s105.photobucket.com/user/fireheart5150/media/Costume%20Presentations/BadHands3.jpg.html][IMG]http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m207/fireheart5150/Costume%20Presentations/th_BadHands3.jpg[/IMG][/URL]
Be Well!
Fireheart
Now that i think about it, I believe for 90% of the costumes i created, i chose a color that was predominantly in the last 2 Columns. ;D
ex:
[img]http://i.imgur.com/Raaqd0Z.png[/img]
The old CoH color set wasn't simply a hexcode-like color picker. IIRC, those last three columns got mixed with your skin color so you could have, effectively, nylons.
[i]Has anyone seen my mind? It was right here...[/i]
I understand the idea behind CoH's and (now) the proposed CoT "Color Table" given here. The main advantage (least for the Devs) is that they can control exactly what colors are used for costume items. Specifically this means they can prevent the so called "skin tone" colors from being used so that people can't easily make "nude" costumes. This also explains (as Lin Chiao Feng sort of mentioned) why we don't have access to decent browns because again they could too easily be used for human skin tones.
The maddening reality of being confined to this highly limited color table scheme is that we know for a fact that even CoH could handle EVERY color possible under the [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RGB_color_model]standard RGB color[/url] model. We know this to be true because there was a very short lived period of time (it literally only lasted a few days) back when the CoH Devs first released their costume load/save feature for beta testing. It was quickly discovered that you could manually tinker with the costume save files to input RGB color codes that were NOT among the default color table provided by the costume creator. This "bug" effectively allowed you to load back in costumes that had ANY color you wanted and the game never showed any signs of not being able to display those colors. Now obviously since that little trick would also let you get around the "no nude skin tones" limitations the Devs, as I mentioned, very quickly patched the game code so that you could no longer load the "color adjusted" save files. But the proverbial damage had already been done from the point of view that we had seen solid proof that the game actually had no technical difficulty displaying ANY RGB color possible.
So sadly it looks like we are going to be forced into accepting a small subset of colors for CoT for the same reasons we were stuck with that for CoH - the Devs apparently can't think of a more clever way to prevent us from using skin tone colors for our costumes. Again as Lin Chiao Feng alluded to if we must be restricted to a limited color table for CoT I'm hoping we'll get at least more rows of color than CoH provided. If CoT will provide say twice as many colors (32 rows?) as CoH provided that might end up being a workable compromise to a totally free RGB code system.
I also favor at least the option to be able to deal with colors in terms of numerical RGB values. If they could only think of a better way to restrict the "skin tone" colors then it could probably be done. To be fair the "color table" should always be the default option for those folks who wouldn't want to mess with the RGB values. But for those of us comfortable with using them I'd love to have RBG codes be like an "advanced option" that could be toggled on or off as desired.
While this could happen with many colors it was a particular problem with the white/gray tones. CoH could never handle "pure white" properly with many of its costume items. For some reason the Devs allowed it to either look washed out and/or semi-transparent as if the material it was applied to was so sheer it was "see-through". Hopefully the Devs of CoT will be able to address this color matching issue regardless of the use of a color table or not.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
I see.. something like this then:
[img]http://i.imgur.com/8NObwaH.png[/img]
Having an option for a "color wheel" in ADDITION to the default standard CoH style color table would be a great improvement for those of us who always wanted more color options.
The only thing I'd be worried about while using such a color wheel is whether or not exact numerical RGB values would be displayed on the screen and/or saved into the costume save files. Being able to reliably REPEAT a certain color scheme (for say supergroup costumes) would be greatly helped by knowing the exact RGB values produced by the game's color wheel.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
Hex Hex Hex Hex.. MORE HEXAGONS!
Crowd Control Enthusiast
Sure. Like Lin Chiao Feng said (and I seconded) as long as we get more overall rows of "standard" colors than we had in CoT I wouldn't mind if like the last three or four rows were reserved for your differing S and L values in your example.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
A quote from Facebook:
So, what we're seeing here isn't "the game and/or computers can't handle more colors", it's "color blind people may have trouble dealing with more colors". Everyone begins with something like this and can go, depending on willingness and ability, into greater precision with the color wheel (or whatever).
I don't believe that skin tones [i]should[/i] be a problem. Seeing people run about with all the appearance and sexuality of a plastic mannequin wouldn't bother me and may, indeed, be necessary for some character concepts. Decals that can take the shape and be placed so as to resemble nipples (or "worse"), on the other hand, might be more likely to cause some raised eyebrows. But then I'd consider something like that to be in rather poor taste regardless of costume or color.
ETA:
More info from Facebook.
- - - - -
[font=Pristina][size=18][b]Hail Beard![/b][/size][/font]
Support [url=http://cityoftitans.com/comment/52149#comment-52149]trap clowns[/url] for CoT!
Note my earlier comment about how the last few columns were, effectively, less than 100% alpha and mixed with the skin tone. Then note which colors on the grayscale row are in those columns, and posit a bug where the alpha-blending code didn't have an exception for the first row...
My point still stands, though. We don't need that many cyans at the expense of blue/violet and gold colors.
[i]Has anyone seen my mind? It was right here...[/i]
If this was a fancy way of saying we had to accept a "pure white" that suffered from the problems I mentioned then I would have to simplemindedly say "no, we shouldn't have to accept that."
I don't have a problem with the idea of having a range of colors that have "less than 100% alpha and mixed with the skin tone" including what I would call the "pure solid white" on the greyscale row. But there should ALSO be a pure solid white that's set with 100% alpha so that it does not have any skin tone blending.
I hope that was not done because the Devs thought that a 100% alpha white was considered a "skin tone" to be avoided but I fear that might have been the reason for this oversight. There are just so many situations where having a good, non-washed out, solid white would have been so helpful and it's sad to think we might not be allowed to have it for fear of a few idiots who might use it to make a "ghost white nude Barbie dolls". *sigh*
I completely agree with this. Clearly the table has a range of colors that have too many shades of some colors and not enough shades of others. Hopefully if the CoT Devs are in fact going with the color table concept they'll spend more time balancing out the overall range of colors a little more uniformly.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
If the Devs want to give us some kind of combination of both a "color table" and "color wheel" with the main rationale that it will help a few dozen color blind people instead of acknowledging the more overwhelming desire (from probably hundreds if not thousands of people) to simply have more color options available that's fine with me.
I ultimately don't really care "why" they are giving us a color wheel as long as it happens. I just find it interesting when the Devs have multiple good reasons to do something that they'd choose to highlight the reason that's only significant to far fewer members of the overall playerbase than the others. *shrugs*
I will always fall on the side of "the game should let us do as much as possible even if that freedom could be abused by a few idiots who'd run around with nude Barbie dolls with tattooed nips".
But obviously the Devs have other concerns in mind and whatever system we end up with for choosing colors will more than likely be limited to what the Devs consider "non-skin tone" colors. For every person who would just consider the Barbie doll "in poor taste" there's probably another parent of an 8 year old player who'd throw a hissy-fit over seeing something like that. The Devs will sadly have to walk a fine line between freedom and control in matters like this.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
Colors that mix with skin-tone don't belong in the color-picker. That's a transparency effect/filter. Skin-tone is irrelevant to my trench-coat and motorcycle-helmet. Let the colors be 'pure' and apply the 'smoke' or 'transparent', or other effects separately.
Be Well!
Fireheart
As long as it's all clearly labeled the CoT color table could be designed to have rows with both "pure" (100% alpha) colors as well as the "semi-transparent" ones. This arrangement would be especially acceptable if we also end up with more color rows on the CoT table than we had in CoH. I still favor the idea of perhaps twice as many rows of default colors as CoH had in its color table.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
As ever, the plan is for a guided, and advanced mode. This is the guided. For advanced, I believe a wheel w/ hexcode option is the plan. (and if someone dares propose removing the hexcode, I will be giving them a stern talking to)
Technical Director
Read enough Facebook and you have to make Sanity Checks. I guess FB is the Great Old One of the interent these days... - Beamrider
You know, I recall one suggestion for advanced mode was that you could pick your palette for guided mode. Should check on how well that was doing.
Technical Director
Read enough Facebook and you have to make Sanity Checks. I guess FB is the Great Old One of the interent these days... - Beamrider
Actually Lin, the facebook post was a big success and got us exactly what we needed - over forty individual first impressions in a few hours to guide revisions by. That said we certainly don't mind people opening additional discussion here - we're not trying to leave you forumites out. But different tools for different needs: the forums didn't suit our purposes for this.
[center]--------------------------[/center]
[center][color=#ff0000]Interior Map Lead and UI Designer[/color][/center]
I will have to correct something. The Unreal Engine doesn't use hex codes for colors but a "vector color" from 0 to 1 rather than the usual integer range from 0 to 255. I'm currently updating the design mockup (which is what you've been seeing, not an actual in-game feature, and I'm the the one who made it) to showcase further refinements.
Refinement 1: Adding a separate flat color swatch so there is no confusion as to what the actual color is when mousing over the color chart.
Refinement 2: Providing color names where such exist. If a name doesn't exist then Refinement 3 will apply - but we may find a way to name those in the future.
Refinement 3: A coordinate system to identify the colors.
Refinement 4: A slider/number entry based system to modify the selected base color as a whole and by individual channel. I don't know if we are going to be able to support alpha changes (but I'd like to).
Refinement 5: Access to custom palettes you've made yourself or have been provided either by us or other persons (this proposal is still subject to future review).
I haven't even been able to find my link to the Google+ page or I'd have been providing explanations there as well. I've been posting on Twitter and Facebook though and if you check those directly you'll see substantial amounts of material including my XAML document that was used to produce the model (I had to rotate it 90 degrees because of a technical issue in the tool I was using to render it) as well as graphics components.
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[color=#FF0000]Senior Developer/Project Manager/Co-Founder... and then some.[/color]
I agree with you here and would add that in this type of game the notion of skin color would be a bit broader than in RL. Or should we just limit it to the possible human skin colors, or even just the most common human skin colors.
Limiting skin colors to only human ones would take out a huge chunk in customization and thus I don't see it happening, so making it so that you can't have the same color on skin as on "underwear" will be very difficult to accomplish.
As for nudity, CO has a teen rating and lets you make completely naked toons using the animal options. So the outrage doesn't seem to be about nudity in general but rather human (not humanoid) nudity specifically.
Not sure how many will try to do an accurate nude toon but I think building a system that can prevent it before the costume is finalized will catch way too many legit uses. Assuming we get an APB style system for skin/cloth markings then it can't just look at each individual mark and see if it's too close. It would have to look at several that are close enough to each other (effectively overlapping to some degree) and determine if they together resemble a nipple or whatever that is "offensive".
You nailed it. We are indeed concerned about nudity issues to avoid getting higher than a "Teen" rating from the board. I'm personally not against nudity and think the issue is absurd for several reasons but this is what we are dealing with The United States is known for it's level of prudity (we aren't as bad as some other nations though!) so we find ourselves bound by the cultural mores of the moment.
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[color=#FF0000]Senior Developer/Project Manager/Co-Founder... and then some.[/color]
As a basis for discussion we can obviously go back to the way CoH handled skin tone colors.
Basically CoH prevented all of what I'd call the "standard real world" human flesh tones. It was however possible to create characters that were technically nude using non-standard flesh colors. For example there were a few blues, greens and reds that were close enough (in both the skin palette and the costume palette provided by CoH) that you could use for that. And IIRC, I don't think there was ever an issue about creating a technically nude character if you used all "animal parts" as clothing. So this means you could have a catperson or wolfperson running around effectively nude but it was apparently allowable because it wasn't strictly a nude "human".
Just for simplicity sake these rules of thumb should probably be the basic ground rules CoT starts from.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
The exact "number system" used to differentiate between the different colors doesn't really matter. What's important is if I want to use whatever the game calls "red #17" multiple times in different costumes that it's clear enough that I can set that easily using the GUIs provided.
Maybe instead of a 0 to 255 "hex" scale the game could use an arbitrary 0 to 99 scale. Again the exact number ranges are not really important as long as whatever system you do come up with is internally consistent and easily usable by the players.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
Lets remember that we have promised all the families that played CoH together (and by implication all who might wish to in the days to come) a family friendly successor. The vast majority of families still consider nudity not suitable for children, and we have an obligation to them as well, not just the board.
But, there aught to be some more elegant ways to deal with it than just removing the entire color scheme. I was wondering if we could prevent the specific problem areas from taking those hues? Possibly via UV segments. Group all those skin tones together, tag the group for the area exclusion (or just make those palettes disappear when you select those areas)
[center]--------------------------[/center]
[center][color=#ff0000]Interior Map Lead and UI Designer[/color][/center]
I'm using a scale of -10 to 10 with steps of 1. (-10, -9..., 0, 1, ... 10). Internally I'm translating that to -100% to 100%. I'll post my draft mockup here before long (I hope).
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[color=#FF0000]Senior Developer/Project Manager/Co-Founder... and then some.[/color]
*ahem* A reminder:
Skin is a material, with a unique texture and shading tied to it. Even if you pick the same color of skin and spandex, you would look like you're wearing a nude colored spandex, not nude.
An example:
Technical Director
Read enough Facebook and you have to make Sanity Checks. I guess FB is the Great Old One of the interent these days... - Beamrider
A fair point Nate, but I'm basically running on the assumption that CoH was anticipating something a bit worse than that, and that therefore it was possible somehow. I don't pretend to know much about how people achieve the semblance of nudity in game.
If nude spandex look is what the Board might ban, okay, I'd call that a bit silly...except we'll have 'painted on' spandex won't we? Comics book style? Which *does* look pretty much nude when its not colored.
[center]--------------------------[/center]
[center][color=#ff0000]Interior Map Lead and UI Designer[/color][/center]
@Avel - Excellent, because, for me, the point is not what numbering/naming system we use, but the ability to be precise and consistent. That way I can select a specific Blue and apply that Blue to each part of my costume, and it will always be that particular Blue and not something that's 3 shades off.
However, by the same token, I don't want to be limited to 100 'crayons', or less, in my coloring! Actually, even the 216 'web safe colors' are probably too few, but at least there's a good range, there.
Be Well!
Fireheart
I have checked internally. Many more elegant approaches to the nudity issue than not offering any skin tones are available to us. It's not certain which we'll use, but it is clear we'll be able to both keep our game nudity free and offer all those skin and neutral tones you're asking for, one way or another.
[center]--------------------------[/center]
[center][color=#ff0000]Interior Map Lead and UI Designer[/color][/center]
I'm using a grid-type system suggested by another poster on FB and expanding the idea. I'm taking the base 160 colors hear and expanding them by thousands. In the standard 8-bit per channel color system there are exactly 16,777,216 combinations. I hope that I can map that and make it more manageable for everyone in a relatively sane way.
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[color=#FF0000]Senior Developer/Project Manager/Co-Founder... and then some.[/color]
Actually there was a point very early on during the CoH beta where the Devs absentmindedly allowed the standard "skin" colors to be used for costumes. What this meant, especially considering that many of the old CoH costume items were already in effect textureless "painted on" items anyway, was that the skin colored items in question would appear indistinguishable from the surrounding skin. So unlike your real life example pic where the model's exposed skin is a slightly different color than the spandex she's wearing there would be absolutely NO difference in color in the game. The clothes would effectively vanish and you would see what amounted to naked Barbie and Ken dolls running around. Needless to say that scenario did not survive to see launch day.
Now it could very well be the case that there's going to be enough increased graphical detail in CoT that its version of a "spandex bodysuit" will have a neckline, seams and/or other tell-tale details that will make it very easy to tell that a character is wearing an actual bodysuit instead of "body paint". But even if that's the case you'll probably still want to be careful not to allow obvious "skin tone" colors for that. I mean if the quality of graphics are going to be so good in CoT that your picture above could literally exist in the game I'd bet there would still be nervous parents out there who might consider what she's "wearing" to be a tad too risqué and/or suggestive.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
Yes there is definitely a difference between a real life spandex unitard (like in Doctor Tyche's pic above) and the typical skin tight "painted on" clothing that many comic book characters manage to get away with.
I think the skin tight "painted on" suits should be allowed in CoT as long as they are colored with any non-skin tone color. This is how it's taken to be "acceptable" in comic books and how it even worked in CoH for the several non-traditional "skin" colors I mentioned in an earlier post.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
I would like to see a larger "basic" palette in addition to the "advanced" one. as mentioned previously...cyan gets all kinds of lovin while other colors are left wanting. if the number of colors to select on the "basic" palette is to remain static then I would at least look at considering a lil more balance across the board to provide a better overall selection of colors.
as far as facebook...I don't do facebook. :( would like to see any further posts made in other mediums duplicated here. which, I thought was mentioned previously and confirmed would happen...but I could be wrong. (to lazy to look atm. :p)
[img]http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/whiteperegrine/84183/69278/69278_original.gif[/img]
It did not happen this time because this was not a post or release. It was a quick fish for feedback on a very early piece of a prototype, and Facebook simply fulfills that purpose better than this forum does. Even now, days later, there's still only a fraction of the input here that we had on Facebook by the time I went to bed after posting it. We were looking to enable guided rapid iteration, which is how the early stages should be. And we got it where we put it. We got a lot of responses and we got them fast: Richard was able to start making revisions within an hour of posting, revisions we were certain represented broad issues many saw independently.
Real releases will always be here, as well as teasers. But for everything else it depends on our needs. We wanted quick mass feedback on this and this place is just not the tool for the job. Facebook and twitter proved that they were.
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[center][color=#ff0000]Interior Map Lead and UI Designer[/color][/center]
Your ability to misread my writing in the least charitable way is legend.
No, that is in no way what I meant. Just because there's an explanation of why something is doesn't mean that it has to be that way.
It was a bug, plain and simple. And one which (for whatever reason) they decided wasn't enough of a "quality of life" problem to prioritize fixing.
[i]Has anyone seen my mind? It was right here...[/i]
Thank you! Also, will the hex code have an alpha channel? Granted, there are folks who will want to set it to 0, but I still think you can get some cool effects with a 60% alpha costume over tattooed skin.
[i]Has anyone seen my mind? It was right here...[/i]
I was talking about the G+ post. It's like nobody knows you're there.
Kinda surprised the CoT main page doesn't have social media links in the sidebar under the Navigation section.
[i]Has anyone seen my mind? It was right here...[/i]
revised to:
[img]http://i.imgur.com/uUWyFK1.png[/img]
Ahhh, much nicer tones for 1 to 4. :D
Too early to tell, but.. I might be able to design most of my outfits with just these colors. ;D
Cool Notion:
if the UI uses this design, could possibly Fold the alternating rows column, so it resembles a vertical Cylinder...
..and as the mouse hovers to the left or right of the Middle, it can Rotate the Cylinder to show those color panels more flush. ;D
Might look good on Mobile devices as well. Like how the Date Picker on the iPhone worked, but instead of swiping up and down, its now left and right... on the IPAD at least. Maybe on the IPhone it can work like the Date Picker. Saves space. :/
ex:
[img]http://def.reyssi.net/images/datepicker.png[/img]
-100%? I can understand that in a YUV or YCbCr color space, but in RGB?
[i]Has anyone seen my mind? It was right here...[/i]
Looking forward to the next revision!
[i]Has anyone seen my mind? It was right here...[/i]
I have four sliders that go for -10 to 10
The color chosen from the color picker is at the center point of the top slider which slides between gradients on each side of that center color (10 steps each).
The three remaining sliders are the red, green, and blue components of the original color using the same system as the first slider (yes, I could also used a button for the 84 swatches but I think the four sliders help emphasize the idea of a sliding scale). This gives a potential color/shade range of 160x21x21x21x21 different combinations for a total number of color/shades of 31,116,960. Given that there is only 16,777,216 different colors on the standard 8-bit per channel color system I think this is more than satisfactory. This technique is still helpful to colorblind people and certain other visual disabilities as well.
And just what is the link to the Google+ page? I've been trying to locate it to evaluate things there as well.
Sorry I can't just paste the contents of the other media sites here - their structure is just too different.
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[color=#FF0000]Senior Developer/Project Manager/Co-Founder... and then some.[/color]
To Be Determined.
Technical Director
Read enough Facebook and you have to make Sanity Checks. I guess FB is the Great Old One of the interent these days... - Beamrider
I really should take the time to work on the social media tools for this site.
Technical Director
Read enough Facebook and you have to make Sanity Checks. I guess FB is the Great Old One of the interent these days... - Beamrider
The hex grid looks cool and is a space saver but it's confusing to some people and doesn't lend itself well to coordinate systems that people are used to. Also for color blind people or those with other visual disabilities the changes from color to color are hard to make out. The rotational one is interesting and does save space but people like being able to see the majority of their options at once. Think of the times when you prefer to see a whole calendar versus just know the current date and consider the "why" of that preference at the time. I'm not blowing this off because I would like to see how to make something like it for future use where it is appropriate but for color picking? Not so much.
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[color=#FF0000]Senior Developer/Project Manager/Co-Founder... and then some.[/color]
No worries! ;)
edit:
As you might have already gleaned, I always look for a chance to 3D'fy UI parts.
old example:
Even if a 3D effect doesn't belong, when hovering over a button or the like, 4 to 5 degree rotation to follow the mouse location, always appealed to me. ;)
Yeah, our Google plus presence isn't much - we got like three comments lol. It's up there because our social media tool lets me post to twitter and Google plus simultaneously, it's just a matter of checking the box to include that platform. So I did, because why not? Twitter got some decent response but it's Facebook that really delivered. Very successful experiment.
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[center][color=#ff0000]Interior Map Lead and UI Designer[/color][/center]
I think if we keep permanent links (where possible) on each of our social media sites (including this forum) pointing to the other sites we can increase potential traffic throughout.
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[color=#FF0000]Senior Developer/Project Manager/Co-Founder... and then some.[/color]
I will gladly accept that in this case I completely "misread" what you said here because to think that the "washed out white" that many of us complained about for 8+ years in the CoH forums was, years after the shutdown, finally determined by you (and you alone) to simply be a "bug" that was never fixed is almost too incredible for me to have ever thought of in a million years. No one, and I seriously mean no one, ever suspected or claimed this problem was merely just a "bug they never got around to fixing" until you said those words here.
If this was just a "plain and simple" bug as you are now asserting then this will have to go down in history as one of the ugliest examples of something the CoH Devs were aware of and could have easily fixed and never did. Frankly I wasn't really prepared to accept the possibility of that much stupidity on the part of the CoH Devs until now. *shrugs*
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
Why couldn't the CoT GUI simply have some kind of alpha slider/setting that would only go from say 50 to 100. This would then allow some player control over transparency without making it too simple to do fully transparent "nude" things.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
You assume if you went full nude you'd get a nude. Since we don't want those options in the first place, what lays all the way underneath is a boxer/bikini, depending on the gender. Most undressed you can get, literally speaking. We're only worried about simulations using colors and costumes. Any strategies revolving around transparency reveals are well within our control. You can only reveal what we put there :)
[center]--------------------------[/center]
[center][color=#ff0000]Interior Map Lead and UI Designer[/color][/center]
Yes I assumed the possibility of "full nude" because I was not aware the decision had been made that there will always be a default boxer/bikini present on the character models. That would be a very major and fundamental change from how CoH did things and I'm frankly quite surprised that a Redname/Dev did NOT make that extremely clear by now.
I pay fairly close attention to this forum and I am pretty sure this is the first time I've seen mention of default boxers/bikinis. Perhaps a Dev could have mentioned this a long time ago to save ourselves from talking about how to otherwise avoid CoH's classic problem of nude Barbie and Ken dolls.
Unfortunately the main problem with giving everyone default underwear is how to handle the situation where the possibilities of "actual" clothing would allow the default underwear to stick out inappropriately. For example let's say the game provides a costume item that looks like this:
[img=300x300]http://www.rakuten.ne.jp/gold/adieu/img/9664051/lib/9664051-11.jpg[/img]
Will the supposed default bikini be visible underneath the swimsuit at the high point of the hip or perhaps along the underside of the arm? You see the idea of forcing everyone to wear default boxers/bikinis to avoid "nudeness" might actually bring along with it all sorts of other problems like this you'll need to consider.
Frankly to be honest the concept of forcing the character models to wear some kind of "permanent underwear" to avoid nudeness is actually a very hamfisted and undesirable solution for CoT. As I alluded to it will probably cause far more trouble than it's worth in this game. I realize other games (i.e. ESO) use the "permanent underwear" solution to handle their nudity problems. But they can get away with that because their range of costuming is no where near as detailed as ours will be. The typical character in ESO does not wear the same type of tight-fitting spandex-like clothes that many superheroes wear. Basically the "permanent underwear" idea is simply the wrong solution for a game like CoT.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
Ok.. I'm being nice and sharing here first. :)
[Img]http://gallery.thebasketcasesoftware.com/piwigo/_data/i/upload/2015/12/15/20151215153813-22e8a7d4-me.png[/Img]
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[color=#FF0000]Senior Developer/Project Manager/Co-Founder... and then some.[/color]
Well this certainly allows for more color tinkering than CoH did. It's hard to completely judge this without seeing how the rest of the avatar builder GUI will be arranged around this but I'd say what you have here certainly could be ready for getting feedback from beta testing at any rate.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
Nice! Love the scaling bars.
To be added:
1. Color swatches of colors already selected by the player just below the costume/skin tabs for visual comparison
2. The ability to turn off the slider section.
3. Tabs just above the main color table to provide additional color palettes, both provided by us, and the player. (Some of the ones provided by us will come from the different comic book "Ages" i.e. Silver Age, Golden Age, etc.).
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[color=#FF0000]Senior Developer/Project Manager/Co-Founder... and then some.[/color]
Lothic - we could be all day telling all the little details we've decided on, and then all the next month explaining how and why they'd work. In the end, while it's great you all love to debate these things so much, preventing all the unnecessary ones is beyond us. Aaand...not really our job either. Lets leave it the default covering thing works just fine.
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[center][color=#ff0000]Interior Map Lead and UI Designer[/color][/center]
Just for brevity, I am pretty certain that (in Wildstar at least) that the "underwear" only appears when you have NO costume piece selected, and when you do it then gets replaced with the "new" costume piece. So that means, at least for Wildstar, no need to worry about bra straps/underwear sticking up.
And in CO, there is no "no costume piece selected" option for the underwear areas, if you don't choose one, the default is used. Which is annoying when the costume piece you want is in another layer and none of the first-layer options are quite covered by it...
Foradain, Mage of Phoenix Rising.
[url=https://cityoftitans.com/forum/foradains-character-conclave]Foradain's Character Conclave[/url]
.
Avatar courtesy of [s]Satellite9[/s] [url=https://www.instagram.com/irezoomie/]Irezoomie[/url]
Yes I understand that you can't really list out hundreds of game details every day and take feedback on all of that instantaneously - I never asked you to do that.
But when there's a forum thread like this where there is a lot of Redname/Dev activity and it goes on for dozens of posts before someone in authority decides to mention a critical detail that completely up-ends the entire discussion I have to question what's the point of having any kind of back-n-forth with the Devs in the first place.
We had been talking (among other things) about how to deal with the classic CoH "nude Barbie/Ken doll" issue for many posts before you thought it might be slightly useful to tell us "Oh, by the way we are considering putting permanent underwear on the models" so that there could never be a "nude Barbie/Ken doll" situation in CoT in the first place. All I'm saying is if you guys are going to bother to comment in these threads you might as well do your best to establish the facts as soon as possible to prevent us from wasting our time talking about issues that aren't going to be important or even possible in the game.
Actually it is "your job" to do your best to solve problems for CoT without creating new ones in their place. It's better to catch potential problems like this long before someone bothers to write actual code that has to be changed almost immediately once any reasonable player feedback is allowed.
I'm just giving you a friendly "heads up" here that if the "permanent underwear" thing doesn't turn invisible when you put on real clothes over them then you're going to have a lot of players screaming bloody murder over this. I'm not just nitpicking a minor point here - anyone who'll want to wear something even remotely revealing like my swimsuit example above will not stand for having "modesty underwear" permanently visible under such clothing.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
If the CoT version of "permanent underwear" is going to work like the Wildstar example then this might be acceptable. Perhaps one of the Rednames can further clarify if this is going to be the case.
I still think the permanent underwear solution "may" still have the potential to cause unforeseen problems along the lines of what Foradain has said. I understand the purpose the permanent underwear is attempting to serve in this situation - to prevent overt nudity. But if there's ever a case where a player can figure out how to provide "adequate cover" to their model but still can't get the permanent underwear to "turn invisible" when needed then there will probably be the need for further code patching and time wasted on the part of the Devs to get this all resolved.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
Until you mentioned transparency, there was nothing about the discussion that made me think underlying bikinis were relevant. Every game has some method ensuring the underlying model can't just be laid graphically bare Lothic, that's standard. Nudity techniques involve either tweaking costume and color choices to simulate it, or Mods that use custom textures to simulate it. Actually unclothing the model is a non-issue pretty much anywhere, that's one thing game makers can control with ease. So until you specifically referred to a tactic involving revealing the underlying model, it never occurred to me to mention it. It's a complete surprise to me you thought this was relevant the whole time.
When you said something indicating you thought revealing the underlying model was a problem, I corrected you. Until then, naturally, I said nothing.
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[center][color=#ff0000]Interior Map Lead and UI Designer[/color][/center]
New update (you hear it here first!)
I found my hosting shrinks the image some. Nothing major but just to let people know it's happening (I'm the host too! I'll have to track that bug down) Top has swatches of the colors chosen so far (or the defaults once we establish what those are). Main grid allows base color sets from the "Ages" of comics and currently two custom sets.
[Img]http://gallery.thebasketcasesoftware.com/piwigo/_data/i/upload/2015/12/15/20151215223047-58d51408-me.png[/Img]
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[color=#FF0000]Senior Developer/Project Manager/Co-Founder... and then some.[/color]
I'm just going to stick my head in and say that our goal is to have _smart_ bikini-boxers. If one is wearing a deep v-cut dress, said bikini will not show. However, if one decides to run around in shorts alone - and is female - the bikini top will show up.
Simple, effective, relax, it's under control.
Thank you for being concerned.
[color=#ff0000]Project Lead[/color]
CoH did NOT employ any kind of permanent or default brief/bikini to address the issue of preventing nudity. The only way it prevented people from making mono-colored Barbie and Ken dolls was that it strictly segregated the colors you could use for the base skin versus colors you could use for costume items. Were you not aware of this historical fact about CoH?
Now as it turns out I'm actually well aware that many, if not most, modern games have opted for some kind obvious default brief/bikini as a means to prevent overt nudity and that method seems to be relatively successful for those games. But until today I do not believe we had ever gotten any concrete hint that CoT was planning to DEVIATE from the original CoH scheme of having no default brief/bikini and actually adopt that idea.
While you, as a Redname with obvious inside information, might have known you were planning to use a default brief/bikini to address the nudity issue for maybe months or even years there had been NO CLUE for us poor potential players that this was in the works. So when I brought up the old classic problem CoH had with the scourge of the mono-colored Barbie and Ken dolls how was I suppose to know you had already adopted the default brief/bikini concept for CoT to make that a non-issue?
This is why I thought it was amazing you let the conversation continue based on what amounted to outdated CoH-based information so long. Didn't you find it weird that I kept talking about the Barbie and Ken doll scenario? I would have thought it would have appeared painfully obvious that there was some amount of knowledge that you possessed on the subject that we, the average players commenting in this forum, didn't have.
Frankly the sooner we the players learn more about what's actually going on with the inner workings of this game the sooner you'll see these "pointless debates" subside.
Do you realize how patronizing that statement was? Why was it "natural" for you to say nothing when you had the one key piece of info that would have cleared everything up from square one? Yours was akin to saying "I'm the elitist holder of all the information and I'll just randomly leak a bit here or there when it'll make you clueless players look stupid". You do realize the reason many of us "stupid players" continue say what you probably think are stupid things on these forums is because you Rednames are still holding back maybe 99% of the information behind closed doors? You do understand that we players, for the most part, only have "how things worked in CoH" to go on at this point right?
As long as you (collectively) want to keep almost every pertinent important detail related to this game under the "developmental lock and key" you'll need to keep tolerating these pointless trains of thought. Again I'm not telling you to you need to "TELL US EVERYTHING NAO!" but by the same token you need to be more tolerant towards your clueless customers during this period while you're intentionally keeping us in the dark on practically everything.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
Heck, Lothic, I just found out about it only last night! We just have a lot going on and we tend to be spread pretty thin right now and there are a lot of little pieces that get put in place or decided on and promptly forgotten about once implemented or until we reach the stage we need to use it. I do UI, Map, and internal software coding with other tech support work as well as PR, member recruitment, some art, etc. (my tag line below is not just a joke). I've been creating for the members here (and on the social media sites) examples of the components and even sharing the tools I've made to produce them (yes, I can share generator of the color control mockup - I have an earlier version hosted for sharing now). We try to be transparent about our progress and what we are doing. Some things we hold close because we want to provide a pleasant surprise or because we don't want people to get exaggerated of where things are at or where they are going, but no one is being deliberately neglectful of the people following our progress. It's just that we are trying to focus more on production that detailed public reporting.
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[color=#FF0000]Senior Developer/Project Manager/Co-Founder... and then some.[/color]
To be honest I always had reasonable faith that the CoT Devs would come up with some scheme to solve the "nudity" problem and it would work well. The part that I admittedly got a little worked up over was the continuing lack of info we players have to work with.
It seemed like the discussion of the nudity topic went pretty far before anyone "in the know" thought to mention that the default brief/bikini was going to be used which basically rendered the entire line of discussion pointless. It's like some guy who time traveled to 2015 from 2,000 years ago and started talking about concerns he has related to the [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geocentric_model]geocentric model[/url] and having everyone in the room look at him stupidly for 15 minutes until somebody finally decides to tell the poor fool that heliocentrism had been accepted and proven beyond doubt. Frankly I just don't like to look foolish simply because I'm not allowed to have all the facts yet. *shrugs*
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
You guys realize you're preaching to the choir here with all the friendly and well-intentioned "Devspeak" - I've made a pretty decent career out of professional engineering and software development for the better part of 25 years now.
My ultimate point here is that as long as you collectively deem it necessary to keep your players in the dark about most of the details related to this game you'll need to expect (and most importantly excuse) any player who tries to draw meaningful conclusions based pretty much solely on having played an "earlier incarnation" of the game you're trying to create here.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
There is nothing all that titillating about 'Barbie' or 'Ken', as they have no 'nudity' to display. The Devs would actually have to expend effort, in order to include any 'nudity' on the character models, who are already wearing a 'skin-colored body-suit' anyway. Why bother struggling to hide or show something that isn't there?
Let's stay focused on the interesting costume color-picker we're being shown, okay?
@Avel - I like the idea of selecting and 'locking' a palette of colors, which can then be applied to costume pieces. I'm not the only one who would also like to see a button for Swapping colors around the costume pieces. For instance, sometimes I like 'black on blue', but other times I prefer the look of 'blue on black', right?
Be Well!
Fireheart
@Lothic - good point, but it's something even we are dealing with internally - lots of memories and nostalgia for the "old game". Until we get things put together as a functional unit rather than chunks what the final product will look like is a mystery to us too. Because of the tools being used to create such a large world on a massive scale by procedural means there are going to be hidden surprises to us as well. It means there's going to mystery for everyone and no inside edges even for the devs.
@Fireheart - actually got a similar request on Facebook with this posting:
>Michael Kritsky - This is really looking good. Looks like there will be some nice shade range for your color choices. I always wondered something. This is off topic yet on topic at >the same time lol How workable is it to set up some kind of slider that would work directly with the finished costume. I'm talking while still in character generator. Something >that could lighten/darker all the colors on the costume. Always wondered if that could be done.
>
>Eric Pawtowski - Or perhaps link several costume pieces together and change their color all at once?
>
>Michael Kritsky - they already have something like that. I was thinking simply shading
(This is me)
>Richard Robertson - That's a GOOD idea! I CAN do it! Totally on topic. I just need to figure out where to put that control...
>
>Michael Kritsky cool always hated going back to each piece and playing with that after lol that would be awesome
>
(Me again)
>Richard Robertson - As the designer of the above I love this kind of input. I'll put a button in the costume piece section that will let you pull up sliders and allow you to link them to colors and costume sets and pieces. How's that?
>
>Michael Kritsky that sounds perfect! smile emoticon
As you can guess my work will be cut out for me here :)
But.... being able to select the ordering of the selected colors by slot should be fairly easy. I'll add that to the list
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[color=#FF0000]Senior Developer/Project Manager/Co-Founder... and then some.[/color]
Super Excellent! I'm sure ChristoperRobin will be pleased too.
Be Well!
Fireheart
The reason games like Wildstar, SWTOR, WoW, etc. have the default underwear is because the character 'costume' is gear which can be removed. In CoH it was not possible to not wear a costume, in part because this "all the way underneath" would have been just another costume option. In other words, [i]being[/i] nude was never a possibility (as opposed to a semblance of [i]appearing to be[/i] nude). Unless this default boxer/bikini look is fixed in appearance, it doesn't sound like things will be much different in CoT.
I doubt many CoH players ever looked at a character and said, "Hey, you're undressed!" as opposed to, for example, "Hey, you're wearing the Magic Costume set!"
Or is the implication that the underwear look will appear if someone matches the color of the character's skin and costume? In this case I can see where Lothic is coming from. Otherwise I remain baffled about why this is such a grand revelation.
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[font=Pristina][size=18][b]Hail Beard![/b][/size][/font]
Support [url=http://cityoftitans.com/comment/52149#comment-52149]trap clowns[/url] for CoT!
It's not really a revelation. The same 'flesh tone on skin tight costumes' coupled with 'strategic decal placement' still has the ability to make a model appear nude if left unchecked. The devs have said they are looking at a few ways to limit the chance of this happening..... and they intend to do so without limiting the players creativity to great degrees.
I think (and correct me if I am wrong Lothic) the issue was more the assumptions that we as players have to make about how the costume creator will work if we want to discuss it. Without any real peek at CoT's CC our only real point of reference is the CC in CoH....Which is unlikely to make for correct assumptions. With so many of our concerns and questions being address with 'We are still deciding on our options' it makes it increasingly difficult to discuss tangential ideas from official announcements. These types of responses from devs are to be expected at this stage in development but it is still a frustrating time for those of us who have questions or concerns.
Lothic's concerns are very much valid in the possibility for skin tight clothing options to appear 'ken doll nude' which could affect rating and that if the character models had a default under garment that covered more than some costume parts without a way to disable those under garments it would be disappointing. Even CoH had the latter issue if a player was not careful in which 'bare' option they choose with some 'shorts', 'skirts' or 'shirts' options.... thankfully the devs are looking to avoid these issue but without telling us how they intend to do this we are left to speculate. It is perfectly understandable that the devs cannot speak in absolutes right now but it is just as understandable in how frustrating it is to us.
Personally, I think all clothing options should be able to use any tone (including human skin tones) but like Shadow previously mentioned .... ensure that the genital / nipple area will be adjusted to a non-human flesh tone color through the use of area selection.
But again...this is nothing more than speculation as I just don't know what method MwM is planning to use for costume parts, color application, transparencies or textures.
For the record I had two toons that "looked" nude only because of the color similarities between skin and costume. It depended on the monitor and graphics card. Higher resolution systems allowed seams to show better. All black or all white is what did this. I know of no other color combinations that did this. But I never got any complaints from staff or players because it was clear that it was just a costume - "flesh colored" costume - but still a costume.
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[color=#FF0000]Senior Developer/Project Manager/Co-Founder... and then some.[/color]
I know someone who did get a temp ban from the game for a flesh coloured outfit. Granted, EU server, kids peak time etc etc...
This was before the period when they prevented this by limiting the colour choices.
Can we make a costume that looks like it's either blue with black fringe or white with gold fringe depending on the lighting?
R.S.O. of Phoenix Rising
I got the reference :) The famous dress. I haven't a clue. Dresses are reflective and their appearance is dependent on ambient lighting and a monitor screen is emissive with its appearance independent on the ambiance the short answer would be "no", but internal to the game it depends on the material's responsiveness to in-game lighting and on that point it's "I don't know".
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[color=#FF0000]Senior Developer/Project Manager/Co-Founder... and then some.[/color]
Ok. Update time. (And I found the size issue problem with my gallery - fixed)
[Img]http://gallery.thebasketcasesoftware.com/piwigo/upload/2015/12/16/20151216200238-75d54ab2.png[/Img]
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[color=#FF0000]Senior Developer/Project Manager/Co-Founder... and then some.[/color]
Aaaanddd... those eyes are too darn creepy!
[Img]http://gallery.thebasketcasesoftware.com/piwigo/upload/2015/12/16/20151216202342-3fdf6e99.png[/Img]
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[color=#FF0000]Senior Developer/Project Manager/Co-Founder... and then some.[/color]
This seems to be a very nice coloring tool. Its seems (mostly) intuitive and easy to use.
I do have a few questions and one concern that I hope can be answered though...even if its 'we have not decided yet'.
First my concern is how this will work. I notice in the top left you have selections for 'Body', 'Costume', 'Colors' and 'Effects'. Does this mean that when you are picking either costume parts or Effects the color pallet won't be on screen until you tab over to its section? I may be reading to much into it but I honestly can't understand why 'Colors' would need its own tab unless it was not available when selecting the costume itself. If you do have to switch sections to apply colors then switch back to change costume parts I personally would find that tedious. I am sure this is not the case so is it possible to expand on that a bit?
Will there be a random button for colors?
Are we really going to have 6 colors per costume part or will it vary by part?
If effects mean things like auras....is that only a single color or six as well? Or is this the positional decal option? Are we still getting the positional decal option?
How will skin tone be done.... Will it be a shading of a texture map or will it be a complete color swap? Is it possible to have two color options for skin...one for tone and one for musculature? I ask because things like undead or alien skin are difficult to do well with only one color choice under either option. This is of course not a requirement but more a desire.
Are both eyes really going to be independently colored?
Using two colors for hair implies a 'blending' of them...Is it possible to get a third color on hair that does not blend (or can the possible decal option be used) to provide streaks, highlights and the like?
Finally, I am a fan of gradient color options. Will we be able to blend two or more colors to create a gradient color change on costume parts?
Thanks.
I think for many that do take "offence" about this it's not about explicit nudity but rather about the [b]thought[/b] about human nudity, and thus anything that is close enough (appearing to be nude but not necessarily showing naughty bits) is equally offensive to them since it will "lead their young" to think about nudity and, by extension, sex.
Non-human skins (animal, mutant and similar) doesn't seem to be a significant problem even though they don't have any form of clothing on them.
I don't know if this answer still applies, since it was provided before this latest iteration: "Those six swatches are the colors chosen below. I have them grouped under the main categories of "Costume" "Skin" "Hair" so the player can see how the match with each other (Costume colors vs skin color vs hair color). I'm trying to think of a space efficient way that isn't confusing to make it more clear but haven't come up with one yet."
Heh, yep, gotta leave those people their illusions. Provide costumes that have some resemblance to nudity and next you'll be trying to tell them that children curse!
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[font=Pristina][size=18][b]Hail Beard![/b][/size][/font]
Support [url=http://cityoftitans.com/comment/52149#comment-52149]trap clowns[/url] for CoT!
I have a color pallet I've used for years. It's served me very well, and I've never needed a color that wasn't on it.
It looks like this:
[IMG]http://i64.tinypic.com/14j839h.jpg[/IMG]
That's why I haven't said anything till now on this thread.
It's not that big a deal to me. If it ain't broke don't fix it, ya know.
http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/browse/pub/3185/Crusader-Game-Books
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC48O9dPcNVdeyNM4efAvX6w/videos?view_as=subscriber
I'm either too tired to understand this in relation to my question or its not answering what I was asking. It seems redundant to put six color markers under the heading of costume that represent costume, skin and hair tones then put a separate heading for skin and yet another for hair right beside it. The only reasons I can see to have 6 color markers under the costume header is if at least some costume parts will allow for 6 separate colors or they were put there because the amount of separate color options for each part has not been decided and avel is using them as a place marker.
Actually I can think of another reason but I hope its not true.... that an entire costume will be restricted to 6 colors in total...which would be a pretty big step backwards from what you could do in CoH. So either I am completely missing the point (entirely possible...I am tired) or the quote you used is not the answer to my question. I do appreciate it though...perhaps you could link me to the rest of his post so I can read it in full?
Well they are essentially the same....just configured in a way to be used in an avatar builder and with more presets. Its not a matter of it being 'broke' its that its probably cheaper and easier to design a new UI than to buy the one MS uses and try and shoehorn it into the game.
That's the full quote. I can see how you'd misread the answer, especially if tired. Those six boxes are for the main category "Costume", next to a box for the category "Skin" and two boxes for the category "Hair", not that the six costume boxes are meant to be used for costume, skin, and hair.
I think the limit of six swatches is arbitrary and due mostly to avelworldcreator's sense of aesthetics (and limited space). My guess is that the idea is to use those swatches for the primary/dominant colors in the costume for easy reference and, hopefully, selection. I doubt any implication about total colors per costume or total colors per costume piece is intended. But that's pure speculation on my part and as likely to be true as that we'll get up to six colors per costume piece.
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[font=Pristina][size=18][b]Hail Beard![/b][/size][/font]
Support [url=http://cityoftitans.com/comment/52149#comment-52149]trap clowns[/url] for CoT!
Google+ [url=https://plus.google.com/103302425859158830421/posts/eKEHZAze9fs]first[/url] and [url=https://plus.google.com/103302425859158830421/posts/392xAzDtjwT]second[/url] threads. Not much happening, sad to say, but not surprising with only 65 followers. And I meant having links to the media sites on the front page. You know, those "Follow us on" with Facebook, Twitter, Pinterest, Google+, and whatever other icons after it.
As for your current iteration:
[list][*]Wow, you're piling a lot into that window. Hope you're planning on rearranging that into some tabs...? Like maybe putting the swatch list on one tab, recent colors on another, the adjustment window on another...? I'm assuming this icolor window is overlaid on the costume preview and piece select screen. If not (and that "Body Costume etc." tab bar on top suggests not) it's going to be annoying having to switch back and forth between selecting parts and selecting colors.
[*]IMHO the adjustment sliders would look better with each step as a large box of color with a white/pulsating/whatever frame around the selected one (and black margin around the others so it doesn't just blend into the white ones on the right). The arrowheads waste space that could be used to make the colors more visible, and also give the impression that the arrowheads are the controls, a much smaller target to hit with the mouse pointer.
[*]Too much space used on the adjustment sliders' numbers.
[*]Want to blow people's minds? Make the background of the color palette the currently selected color. That provides the bonus of letting you see how that color looks next to others.
[*]Did I miss the explanation of the Iron/Bronze/Silver/etc. selector? Are those comic book ages, or actual colors?
[*]IMHO currently selected colors should be on the piece select screen, next to the relevant parts. If that's not possible, you might want to move them to the right edge of the window, to keep the window from getting too tall...?
[*]Might be more of a Dr. Tyche question, since this leaks into the database side: Can we get real names for the various parts that get colored, depending on the piece selected, instead of just "Color 1" ... "Color 6"? E.g. "Base" "Cuffs" "Cuff Links" "Buttons" for a double-breasted jacket, or "Frame" "Back" "Symbol" for a belt buckle with a symbol on it?[/list]
Anyway, looks good so far, though visually noisy.
[i]Has anyone seen my mind? It was right here...[/i]
I'm sorry man I still don't see how this answers my question. It has not even been a day since I posted the questions so I think I am just gonna wait to see if avel or another dev comments on them as we both seem to share the same speculations on this question. Again thanks for the info.
It's not allowance, it is more a case of prioritizing data. Discussion of anti-nudity tricks did not rate highly in the priority list, I'll be honest.
Technical Director
Read enough Facebook and you have to make Sanity Checks. I guess FB is the Great Old One of the interent these days... - Beamrider
Would it be uadvantageous to somehow separate the *costume* colorizer from the *model* colorizer? So that we could choose eyes and hair color while defining the basic character physical parameters. I guess we'd want access to the *chosen color" palette in both tabs, however.
Just looking for a way to reduce clutter.
PS: I love that we can change the color of whites, iris and pupil, on each eye! Fantastic. But it may be useful to have a "symmetrical" lock/default button there.
First: The color palette seems very useful. The level of complexity is far more than I'm used to, but I'm sure it won't take long to figure out. The idea of having separate areas marked for separate treatment when adjusting shade/tone is intriguing. Personally, I don't see myself needing it, but once I start playing with it I'm sure I'll find many uses for the increased flexibility.
Second: I don't check these forums very often. I have MWM on Facebook and that is usually the first place I get updates. As usual, there is far more information here than on Facebook and the nature of the discussion is completely different. I just added G+ today. I'll have to find Twitter and add it.
Third: Despite being a "puritan" with old-fashioned Christian values, I don't have any problem with nude characters. I understand some people do not want their children exposed to nudity. I never worried about that with my two boys because here in Japan nudity is everywhere, even in children's comics, so any idea I might have had about protecting my children from nude images would have been completely delusional anyway. Nonetheless, this game must cater to an international market and believe it or not, the United States is not the most prudish nation in the world. Not even close. So it is no surprise that efforts are being made to prevent nude characters. Although, didn't that whole discussion get brought out months ago in multiple other threads? Until Lothic brought it up here, I'd assumed it was already settled.
Finally: One week to year-end. Still waiting patiently...
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