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Are we on track?

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The Fighting Ca...
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Are we on track?

For a Fall 2018 beta? Are we pretty confident 5 years in? Or does 2019 look more realistic for a beta, with 2020 being a realistic release year? I'm just curious because I'm dying to play!!

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There is a poster here who

There is a poster here who has a great sig. "A rushed game is forever bad, a delayed game is eventually good."
Whatever will come, will come. Kay serrah.

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It's a simple question. I'm

It's a simple question. I'm not judging anyone.

These types of answers like the one you just gave actually paint a picture that no, we aren't ready and that there is some reason to tip toe the answer.

Financial backers on projects, like investors, have a right to ask straight forward questions with a right to receive a straight forward answer. As you can see I have a Kickstarter icon I paid and invested in this game.

So again I simply ask are we on track for a beta this year or will the beta come in 2019 with a 2020 release?

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The Fighting Canadian wrote:
The Fighting Canadian wrote:

These types of answers like the one you just gave actually paint a picture that no, we aren't ready and that there is some reason to tip toe the answer.

Just for the record, that is not what I was saying at all. There was no disrespect and I was not dismissing the question.

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I’m not sure exactly where it

I’m not sure exactly where it was stated but I thought one of the devs has indicated that, if their planned timeline had slipped, they would communicate that. I think there was a milestone that they needed to reach in March or May in order to ascertain whether or not they would meet that. Since I haven’t heard otherwise, I’ve been assuming that we’re still on track for Fall 2018 chargen release. I could also be making this up so I hope one of the devs will correct me if I’m wrong or verify if I’m right.

I’m in the same boat as you: eagerly, desperately waiting for The Big Day. I have many characters planned.

Name: Safehouse
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Safehouse wrote:
Safehouse wrote:

I’m not sure exactly where it was stated but I thought one of the devs has indicated that, if their planned timeline had slipped, they would communicate that. I think there was a milestone that they needed to reach in March or May in order to ascertain whether or not they would meet that. Since I haven’t heard otherwise, I’ve been assuming that we’re still on track for Fall 2018 chargen release. I could also be making this up so I hope one of the devs will correct me if I’m wrong or verify if I’m right.

I’m in the same boat as you: eagerly, desperately waiting for The Big Day. I have many characters planned.

Right. I've been assuming as well. But now I'd like to know, officially.

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"not dismissing the question"

"not dismissing the question"
But not answering it either.
This type of evasion is a big part of why I stopped participating in this forum.

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TheMightyPaladin wrote:
TheMightyPaladin wrote:

"not dismissing the question"
But not answering it either.
This type of evasion is a big part of why I stopped participating in this forum.

I'm not trying to cause a problem. Just want a clear "yes" or "no" answer. Can we expect the alpha then beta by the end of 2018 or are we looking into a delay into 2019/2020 or longer in terms of release?

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A fair question I wouldn't

A fair question I wouldn't mind an answer on. I filter in and out of the forums. The announcements we have gotten recently paint a neat picture of things we can do and theories, but they dont feel like... beta soon announcements.

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desviper wrote:
desviper wrote:

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Yup. Not an answer.

Do you think if a group of investors asked the organization they invested in for specific answers in regards to the the product they invested in, 5 years after initially investing, and in return they got vague, tip toe, beat around the bush answers, that they would be happy? No, they would threaten to pull funding.

Why can no one answer the question? I was not in the least bit worried until now. So good job guys.

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well none of us are devs. So

well none of us are devs. So I am confused as to why people are telling you to just wait.
you didnt say "beta by decempber or i pull my funding" you just asked if the timeline was looking to be on track.... which is fair.

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TheMightyPaladin wrote:
TheMightyPaladin wrote:

"not dismissing the question"
But not answering it either.
This type of evasion is a big part of why I stopped participating in this forum.

And it is continuing to happen.

I backed this project with my own $$$ and non backers have the guts to say "whenever it's done, it's done."

Seriously? It was a simple, straight forward question.

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The simple hard answer is

The simple hard answer is that we, meaning your fellow forum posters, do not have that information definitively stated to us. A more productive line of inquiry might be to pm a dev or 2.

Edit. But as they haven't told us in general as yet, I would be hard pressed to feel they would tell you before a general announcement.

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In the FAQ the projected date

In the FAQ the projected date for the beta is Fall 2018, so it's safe to assume that we are indeed on schedule for that time frame.

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TheMightyPaladin wrote:
TheMightyPaladin wrote:

"not dismissing the question"
But not answering it either.
This type of evasion is a big part of why I stopped participating in this forum.

You stopped participating in this forum because non-Devs were being "evasive" about answering questions they couldn't possibly answer with any degree of certainty to begin with? I've missed your special brand of logic around here... ;)

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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The Fighting Canadian wrote:
The Fighting Canadian wrote:

For a Fall 2018 beta? Are we pretty confident 5 years in? Or does 2019 look more realistic for a beta, with 2020 being a realistic release year? I'm just curious because I'm dying to play!!

As far as we know they are still on track for at least the release of the Char Gen this year. No Redname has begun to mention anything more (or less) than that yet.

To be clear though the Devs have "strongly hinted" that along with the Char Gen we're actually going to get at least some portion of the actual game to run around in (similar to Paragon Chat) so this should be a fairly significant release towards an actual complete beta of the game.

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Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:
The Fighting Canadian wrote:

For a Fall 2018 beta? Are we pretty confident 5 years in? Or does 2019 look more realistic for a beta, with 2020 being a realistic release year? I'm just curious because I'm dying to play!!

As far as we know they are still on track for at least the release of the Char Gen this year. No Redname has begun to mention anything more (or less) than that yet.

To be clear though the Devs have "strongly hinted" that along with the Char Gen we're actually going to get at least some portion of the actual game to run around in (similar to Paragon Chat) so this should be a fairly significant release towards an actual complete beta of the game.

This is good to hear.

I'm sure I'm not the only one who thinks that at this point since you're getting so close to fall 2018 and we are at the 5-year mark that perhaps a dev post talking about a little more detail as to launch plans and where we stand in terms of how much time of development we are looking at.

You can't tell me that we're not at a point where they can confidently say yes we should have a release within 12 to 18 months or no it's still going to be another one to two years. And for financial backers I personally think we'd all be fine if they're to come out and say we've got another couple years to go.

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The Fighting Canadian wrote:
The Fighting Canadian wrote:
Lothic wrote:
The Fighting Canadian wrote:

For a Fall 2018 beta? Are we pretty confident 5 years in? Or does 2019 look more realistic for a beta, with 2020 being a realistic release year? I'm just curious because I'm dying to play!!

As far as we know they are still on track for at least the release of the Char Gen this year. No Redname has begun to mention anything more (or less) than that yet.

To be clear though the Devs have "strongly hinted" that along with the Char Gen we're actually going to get at least some portion of the actual game to run around in (similar to Paragon Chat) so this should be a fairly significant release towards an actual complete beta of the game.

This is good to hear.

I'm sure I'm not the only one who thinks that at this point since you're getting so close to fall 2018 and we are at the 5-year mark that perhaps a dev post talking about a little more detail as to launch plans and where we stand in terms of how much time of development we are looking at.

You can't tell me that we're not at a point where they can confidently say yes we should have a release within 12 to 18 months or no it's still going to be another one to two years. And for financial backers I personally think we'd all be fine if they're to come out and say we've got another couple years to go.

I'm in favor of getting as much concrete info from the Renames about this game as anyone. But I'm willing to give them until around the beginning of October before I'd seriously would want to hear one way or the other.

Obviously if they expect it's going to slip significantly into 2019 the earlier they let us know that the better. If they tried to slide through the November-January timeframe without saying -anything- that would be bad, or at least would make the situation worse than it needs to be from the PR point of view.

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I'd say by Halloween they

I'd say by Halloween they should know if they are going to be releasing anything of significance before the New Year.

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The Fighting Canadian wrote:
The Fighting Canadian wrote:
desviper wrote:

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Yup. Not an answer.

Do you think if a group of investors asked the organization they invested in for specific answers in regards to the the product they invested in, 5 years after initially investing, and in return they got vague, tip toe, beat around the bush answers, that they would be happy? No, they would threaten to pull funding.

Why can no one answer the question? I was not in the least bit worried until now. So good job guys.

Would you rather they rush and cut to get a glitchy abomination out by the 27th?


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desviper wrote:
desviper wrote:
The Fighting Canadian wrote:
desviper wrote:

See signature

Yup. Not an answer.

Do you think if a group of investors asked the organization they invested in for specific answers in regards to the the product they invested in, 5 years after initially investing, and in return they got vague, tip toe, beat around the bush answers, that they would be happy? No, they would threaten to pull funding.

Why can no one answer the question? I was not in the least bit worried until now. So good job guys.

Would you rather they rush and cut to get a glitchy abomination out by the 27th?

It seems like all he cares about is knowing if its on track or not. He wasn't being judgmental on IF they are on track. He is being judgmental of not knowing.

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I can get why Fighting

I can get why Fighting Canadian is reacting the way he is to forum goers.

Like imagine asking a friend "So are we still hanging out on Friday?"

And they answered "Good things come to those who wait."

You're looking for a yes or no and they're giving you fortune cookie proverbs.

As an actual answer, like some others have stated, as far as we know it still has 2018 as a release of something, the character generator, alpha, beta... Not entirely sure. But something. Like, fingers crossed that they don't hit any snags before then. But, as far as I can tell, if all goes as planned, something by the end of 2018.

But also I'm not a backer as I only learned about the Kickstarter after it was done. So I don't have much/anything riding on this.

"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."

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desviper wrote:
desviper wrote:
The Fighting Canadian wrote:
desviper wrote:

See signature

Yup. Not an answer.

Do you think if a group of investors asked the organization they invested in for specific answers in regards to the the product they invested in, 5 years after initially investing, and in return they got vague, tip toe, beat around the bush answers, that they would be happy? No, they would threaten to pull funding.

Why can no one answer the question? I was not in the least bit worried until now. So good job guys.

Would you rather they rush and cut to get a glitchy abomination out by the 27th?

Not at all. I never even asked anything remotely like that. I asked if it was likely that we will either a) get a beta this year or early 2019 or b) if we are still 18- 24 months away from a potential launch

Very simple question "Are we on track or not". I never asked for a rushed product.

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Guess I just trust the devs.

Guess I just trust the devs. Even without confirmation, I'm good waiting.

Also I'm kinda broke now :p


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Was it ever said if the

Was it ever said if the second Kickstarter would be before or after the release of the truncated game? Without a word of when that's happening it would give us a hint as to when we have a release of any kind.

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At the moment the big hangup

At the moment the big hangup is a UV bug with costumes that's making us tear our hair out. Once that's done, we'll see what bugbear if any comes up next.

So far we're still on target for the costume creator this fall. I'll admit, I'd *wanted* it out last month, but finding these little issues is delaying it.

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Ravrohan wrote:
Ravrohan wrote:

Was it ever said if the second Kickstarter would be before or after the release of the truncated game? Without a word of when that's happening it would give us a hint as to when we have a release of any kind.

Nothing has been shared about the second chance fundraiser. Seems like most people on this forum are excited and waiting to throw more money at CoT but we've been given 0 information on it. There are a lot of answers asked by a lot of investors across this forum that have never been given a committed answer.

Compulsively clicking the refresh button until the next update.

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The Devs have said several

The Devs have said several times the 2nd kickstarter would not happen until they have something to show for it...like the CharGen.

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Doctor Tyche wrote:
Doctor Tyche wrote:

At the moment the big hangup is a UV bug with costumes that's making us tear our hair out. Once that's done, we'll see what bugbear if any comes up next.

So far we're still on target for the costume creator this fall. I'll admit, I'd *wanted* it out last month, but finding these little issues is delaying it.

I am not a programmer. Could you please define what the UV bug is? Thank you!

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The whole "a rushed game is

The whole "a rushed game is forever bad" thing isn't really true honestly. You can have a rough launch and fix a product up whether other people have seen it or not. The feedback can even be helpful.

The PR from a bad launch can be hell to clean up, but even that is not impossible. Total War Rome 2 had a terrible launch as one example but the devs at CA worked pretty hard and turned it around, earning back much of their player's trust and support. While I haven't played No Man's Sky, that is another example of a bad launch that players are warming up to after additional work was put into it.

Sure, we all want CoT to be a shining beacon of awesomeness, but no matter how long it is delayed we are going to want further improvements, fixes, and feature additions after the initial release. The only way an evolving game like that will ever be "finished" is when support for it is shut down and interest in it has died. Even CoX, shut down long ago, has enough interest in it that people are working on reverse engineering it and trying to make successors today. As long as that motivation exists the game isn't dead. What is the phrase that was used in the CoT trailer? "Heroes may fall but heroism never dies?"

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The Fighting Canadian wrote:
The Fighting Canadian wrote:
TheMightyPaladin wrote:

"not dismissing the question"
But not answering it either.
This type of evasion is a big part of why I stopped participating in this forum.

And it is continuing to happen.

I backed this project with my own $$$ and non backers have the guts to say "whenever it's done, it's done."

Seriously? It was a simple, straight forward question.

Well, I'm a backer and I'm willing to wait, so there is that. While I myself prefer to have a definite answer, I know when schedules slip, people (vocal participants on forums, social media, etc) gripe, bitch, and moan that they're not getting what they want right meow dammit. So I put aside my personal preferences and indulge in some patience because I'd rather not have to deal with that noise. But, again, that's just me.

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Doctor Tyche wrote:
Doctor Tyche wrote:

At the moment the big hangup is a UV bug with costumes that's making us tear our hair out. Once that's done, we'll see what bugbear if any comes up next.

So far we're still on target for the costume creator this fall. I'll admit, I'd *wanted* it out last month, but finding these little issues is delaying it.

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Cyclops wrote:
Cyclops wrote:
Doctor Tyche wrote:

At the moment the big hangup is a UV bug with costumes that's making us tear our hair out. Once that's done, we'll see what bugbear if any comes up next.

So far we're still on target for the costume creator this fall. I'll admit, I'd *wanted* it out last month, but finding these little issues is delaying it.

I am not a programmer. Could you please define what the UV bug is? Thank you!

The latest update to Unreal changed how UV's are handled and in so doing exposed an issue that, if not addressed, would hurt performance in the long term.

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Doctor Tyche wrote:
Doctor Tyche wrote:

At the moment the big hangup is a UV bug with costumes that's making us tear our hair out. Once that's done, we'll see what bugbear if any comes up next.

So far we're still on target for the costume creator this fall. I'll admit, I'd *wanted* it out last month, but finding these little issues is delaying it.

Thank you!

Is this the same bug that was a problem back in January?

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The Fighting Canadian wrote:
The Fighting Canadian wrote:
Doctor Tyche wrote:

At the moment the big hangup is a UV bug with costumes that's making us tear our hair out. Once that's done, we'll see what bugbear if any comes up next.

So far we're still on target for the costume creator this fall. I'll admit, I'd *wanted* it out last month, but finding these little issues is delaying it.

Thank you!

Is this the same bug that was a problem back in January?

Nope. This one is tied to the engine revision which came out a few months ago. It exposed a misjudgement we had on how well systems could handle our player model, so we have to redo the UV map to fix it.

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whats UV :p

whats UV :p

I keep reading ultraviolet


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desviper wrote:
desviper wrote:

whats UV :p

I keep reading ultraviolet

Short answer - it's what tells the system how to map a texture to a 3d model.

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(Do realize, I am not

(Do realize, I am not involved in the costume creator itself, but working on the quest system and maps, so my information there is filtered and may be out of date)

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Doctor Tyche wrote:
Doctor Tyche wrote:
desviper wrote:

whats UV :p

I keep reading ultraviolet

Short answer - it's what tells the system how to map a texture to a 3d model.

Actually does sound vaguely familiar, and like something that could be nightmarishly complicated in a superhero mmo.


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desviper wrote:
desviper wrote:
Doctor Tyche wrote:
desviper wrote:

whats UV :p

I keep reading ultraviolet

Short answer - it's what tells the system how to map a texture to a 3d model.

Actually does sound vaguely familiar, and like something that could be nightmarishly complicated in a superhero mmo.

You're not wrong there. But it can do oh so much.

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Are there folks you can reach

Are there folks you can reach out to, like Unreal? Other devs in a casual fashion for tips and suggestions?

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The Fighting Canadian wrote:
The Fighting Canadian wrote:

Are there folks you can reach out to, like Unreal? Other devs in a casual fashion for tips and suggestions?

We do, regularly.

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The Fighting Canadian wrote:
The Fighting Canadian wrote:

Are there folks you can reach out to, like Unreal? Other devs in a casual fashion for tips and suggestions?

I'd guess that Unreal is as eager for this game to launch as any of us, as they can't start cashing in on their royalties until MWM starts showing revenue. ;)

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Geveo wrote:
Geveo wrote:
The Fighting Canadian wrote:

Are there folks you can reach out to, like Unreal? Other devs in a casual fashion for tips and suggestions?

I'd guess that Unreal is as eager for this game to launch as any of us, as they can't start cashing in on their royalties until MWM starts showing revenue. ;)

Is that actually how it works? I thought they license it to MWM whether they make money or not.


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Cobalt Azurean wrote:
Cobalt Azurean wrote:

While I myself prefer to have a definite answer, I know when schedules slip, people (vocal participants on forums, social media, etc) gripe, bitch, and moan that they're not getting what they want right meow dammit. So I put aside my personal preferences and indulge in some patience because I'd rather not have to deal with that noise. But, again, that's just me.

That's a very unfair assessment. To say a backer is just bitching and saying they want it "right meow dammit" 6 years after backing MWM is just ridiculous. They have every right to ask for straight answers and the 'proof in the pudding' after that long of time.

Compulsively clicking the refresh button until the next update.

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Let's just say we did not

Let's just say we did not want to explode your GPUs. :P

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Dark Cleric wrote:
Dark Cleric wrote:
Cobalt Azurean wrote:

While I myself prefer to have a definite answer, I know when schedules slip, people (vocal participants on forums, social media, etc) gripe, bitch, and moan that they're not getting what they want right meow dammit. So I put aside my personal preferences and indulge in some patience because I'd rather not have to deal with that noise. But, again, that's just me.

That's a very unfair assessment. To say a backer is just bitching and saying they want it "right meow dammit" 6 years after backing MWM is just ridiculous. They have every right to ask for straight answers and the 'proof in the pudding' after that long of time.

Well, to be fair, I didn't think it was fair to specifically state that it was non-backers telling backers to "just wait". That would infer to me, based on the use of the word 'backer', that it was used purposefully for its monetary connotations and that maybe non-backers shouldn't express their opinion due to their lack of financial contribution. I don't have a problem with inquiring about results and holding people (and businesses) accountable, but seemingly shouting someone down because they didn't (or couldn't) support the Kickstarter doesn't make their opinion or perspective any less viable.

Also, please don't take a generalized, openly inclusive statement such as 'people' and reduce it only to a single case to fit your argument. I intentionally wanted to state that anyone, backers and non-backers, can and will complain when production time-lines slip as they have a tendency to be viewed as iron-clad promises, which I view as an immature and unrealistic response. And, again, this is just my perspective, and may or may not be the actual reason why MWM performs in the manner that they do, but it is equally fair of me to share it on the forums.

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cloganart wrote:
cloganart wrote:

Let's just say we did not want to explode your GPUs. :P

And I, for one, appreciate that sentiment.

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TriNitroToluene wrote:
TriNitroToluene wrote:
cloganart wrote:

Let's just say we did not want to explode your GPUs. :P

And I, for one, appreciate that sentiment.

TNT is anti-explosion? Hmmmmm ;p


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cloganart wrote:
cloganart wrote:

Let's just say we did not want to explode your GPUs. :P

Cowards!

"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."

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Cobalt Azurean wrote:
Cobalt Azurean wrote:
Dark Cleric wrote:
Cobalt Azurean wrote:

While I myself prefer to have a definite answer, I know when schedules slip, people (vocal participants on forums, social media, etc) gripe, bitch, and moan that they're not getting what they want right meow dammit. So I put aside my personal preferences and indulge in some patience because I'd rather not have to deal with that noise. But, again, that's just me.

That's a very unfair assessment. To say a backer is just bitching and saying they want it "right meow dammit" 6 years after backing MWM is just ridiculous. They have every right to ask for straight answers and the 'proof in the pudding' after that long of time.

Well, to be fair, I didn't think it was fair to specifically state that it was non-backers telling backers to "just wait". That would infer to me, based on the use of the word 'backer', that it was used purposefully for its monetary connotations and that maybe non-backers shouldn't express their opinion due to their lack of financial contribution. I don't have a problem with inquiring about results and holding people (and businesses) accountable, but seemingly shouting someone down because they didn't (or couldn't) support the Kickstarter doesn't make their opinion or perspective any less viable.

Also, please don't take a generalized, openly inclusive statement such as 'people' and reduce it only to a single case to fit your argument. I intentionally wanted to state that anyone, backers and non-backers, can and will complain when production time-lines slip as they have a tendency to be viewed as iron-clad promises, which I view as an immature and unrealistic response. And, again, this is just my perspective, and may or may not be the actual reason why MWM performs in the manner that they do, but it is equally fair of me to share it on the forums.

It was a non backers telling me to wait. Nothing unfair about it. A non backer has no rite to tell a backer/investor to just wait.

Like it or not, someone who financially invested in this game does and should have a bit more right to ask "What's going on with the timeline?" than someone with zero financial investment at this point. Why? Because a backer is helping fund the game! In a sense it's part ownership. It has zero to do with anyone being rude, someone being unfair etc. It was a simple status update question. Then for some reason non backers just started complaining about the question. There was zero intent to ruffle feathers with my initial, simple question.

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The Fighting Canadian wrote:
The Fighting Canadian wrote:
Cobalt Azurean wrote:
Dark Cleric wrote:
Cobalt Azurean wrote:

While I myself prefer to have a definite answer, I know when schedules slip, people (vocal participants on forums, social media, etc) gripe, bitch, and moan that they're not getting what they want right meow dammit. So I put aside my personal preferences and indulge in some patience because I'd rather not have to deal with that noise. But, again, that's just me.

That's a very unfair assessment. To say a backer is just bitching and saying they want it "right meow dammit" 6 years after backing MWM is just ridiculous. They have every right to ask for straight answers and the 'proof in the pudding' after that long of time.

Well, to be fair, I didn't think it was fair to specifically state that it was non-backers telling backers to "just wait". That would infer to me, based on the use of the word 'backer', that it was used purposefully for its monetary connotations and that maybe non-backers shouldn't express their opinion due to their lack of financial contribution. I don't have a problem with inquiring about results and holding people (and businesses) accountable, but seemingly shouting someone down because they didn't (or couldn't) support the Kickstarter doesn't make their opinion or perspective any less viable.

Also, please don't take a generalized, openly inclusive statement such as 'people' and reduce it only to a single case to fit your argument. I intentionally wanted to state that anyone, backers and non-backers, can and will complain when production time-lines slip as they have a tendency to be viewed as iron-clad promises, which I view as an immature and unrealistic response. And, again, this is just my perspective, and may or may not be the actual reason why MWM performs in the manner that they do, but it is equally fair of me to share it on the forums.

It was a non backers telling me to wait. Nothing unfair about it. A non backer has no rite to tell a backer/investor to just wait.

Like it or not, someone who financially invested in this game does and should have a bit more right to ask "What's going on with the timeline?" than someone with zero financial investment at this point. Why? Because a backer is helping fund the game! In a sense it's part ownership. It has zero to do with anyone being rude, someone being unfair etc. It was a simple status update question. Then for some reason non backers just started complaining about the question. There was zero intent to ruffle feathers with my initial, simple question.

You mean they don't have the Kickstarter badge, right? For all you know, the supposed non-backer could be contributing to MWM's Patreon and bought stuff out of the webstore. Ergo, backing the project financially in other ways than just the Kickstarter. So, really, your assumption is based on potentially faulty knowledge.

And you have all the right to request an update from the company, but if you ask in a public forum, versus a private message to a dev, your discourse between you and the company party is open to dialogue from outside parties. So, my suggestion is that if you don't want someone whom you feel shouldn't be involved in your conversation, you shouldn't have your conversation publicly.

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Hopefully next weeks update

Hopefully next weeks update will give us some much needed information on this topic...
I think everyone is anxious to know more about the progress of even the difficult to grasp issues MWM is facing.

"A sad spectacle. If they be inhabited, what a scope for misery and folly. If they be not inhabited, what a waste of space." ~ Thomas Carlyle

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Okay okay, this is starting

Okay okay, this is starting to get pretty heated and it really shouldn't need to.

Fighting Canadian, you do have a point. You asked your question with no rancor and no tone of judgement, to all appearances happy to accept news of a delay, so long as it was clear. That's a very welcome attitude, and I can see why some of the responses you got would frustrate you.

But let me give it a little context. You, yes, did no wrong. Did it all right in fact. Thing is, people question City of Titan's release a LOT and our forum Titans have become very used to dealing with a particular type that is a lot more common that your own approach. A knee jerk response is regrettable, but it's not hard to understand where it came from. It's not really personal.

That said, I do have to address the backer bit. I understand your feelings about it, and likely most of your choice of words was driven by sheer frustration at that point, which is very understandable. But I want to point out that many on this forum are non-backers. They came late or were broke, it doesn't matter which. What matters is they are here, participating in this forum, believing in and wanting to see this game, just like the backers do. It is also unfair to suggest that because they didn't back, they can't possibly be equally invested, emotionally, as a backer. Many very passionate supporters are not backers. And they've become, over the years they've stuck with us, very used to the waiting game. They may take it a bit for granted at this point.

As Nate said, there are always new bugs and obstacles. The Big One, however, was the new plug-in based integration project. We explained the basics of what we were taking on here. We underestimated the sheer scope of what we were taking on, although, I want to emphasize, we had NOT underestimated the benefits. Until that was conquered, we weren't going to be able to form a clear answer, except that we still expected to make the end of year goals, something we have been saying when asked (we got here a bit late, sorry TFC)

We will likely have a more detailed, public post at some point. But for now I will say that as of this weekend, that hurdle has been cleared. It works, and it works very very well and has already demonstrated a capacity to save stunning amounts of work. Because it's so recent that's about all we can say, besides for that we'll keep working, keep making that Chargen (it's coming together very quickly), and will stay in touch.

...and probably do need to update that FAQ entry. When you're scrambling to get something like this done with our resources, those sorts of details can get lost, despite being important to everyone checking it to stay up to date. I appreciate the reminder.

--------------------------

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desviper wrote:
desviper wrote:
Geveo wrote:
The Fighting Canadian wrote:

Are there folks you can reach out to, like Unreal? Other devs in a casual fashion for tips and suggestions?

I'd guess that Unreal is as eager for this game to launch as any of us, as they can't start cashing in on their royalties until MWM starts showing revenue. ;)

Is that actually how it works? I thought they license it to MWM whether they make money or not.

I'm not a dev, but iirc, something to this effect has been stated by Dr. T, specifically in talking about the first and [eventual] second-chance Kickstarters.

The way the agreement with Unreal works is on a royalty basis, rather than a monthly fee. This is a sensible way for Unreal to do things, since they want people to be able to develop on their platform for little cost -- making it more attractive for developers. However, Unreal takes a percentage of all revenue for any project using their engine.

So MWM had to pay a portion of the first KS to Unreal, because it counted as revenue. But at the moment, since they have very little revenue coming in, they also have very little expense going out to Unreal.

Once the game launches, Unreal's cut will come off the top as a percentage of every dollar MWM brings in for this game. That's one reason MWM has been very patient about launching KS2, or doing any major fundraising work... working on a largely (to this point, almost purely) volunteer basis, they're burning through cash very slowly at this stage of the development cycle.

Like I said, that's my understanding of how it works. I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong.

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Shadow Elusive wrote:
Shadow Elusive wrote:

...
We will likely have a more detailed, public post at some point. But for now I will say that as of this weekend, that hurdle has been cleared. It works, and it works very very well and has already demonstrated a capacity to save stunning amounts of work. Because it's so recent that's about all we can say, besides for that we'll keep working, keep making that Chargen (it's coming together very quickly), and will stay in touch.

...and probably do need to update that FAQ entry. When you're scrambling to get something like this done with our resources, those sorts of details can get lost, despite being important to everyone checking it to stay up to date. I appreciate the reminder.

This is awesome news! Thanks so much for the info, Shadow!

"A sad spectacle. If they be inhabited, what a scope for misery and folly. If they be not inhabited, what a waste of space." ~ Thomas Carlyle

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Shadow Elusive wrote:
Shadow Elusive wrote:

Okay okay, this is starting to get pretty heated and it really shouldn't need to.

Fighting Canadian, you do have a point. You asked your question with no rancor and no tone of judgement, to all appearances happy to accept news of a delay, so long as it was clear. That's a very welcome attitude, and I can see why some of the responses you got would frustrate you.

But let me give it a little context. You, yes, did no wrong. Did it all right in fact. Thing is, people question City of Titan's release a LOT and our forum Titans have become very used to dealing with a particular type that is a lot more common that your own approach. A knee jerk response is regrettable, but it's not hard to understand where it came from. It's not really personal.

That said, I do have to address the backer bit. I understand your feelings about it, and likely most of your choice of words was driven by sheer frustration at that point, which is very understandable. But I want to point out that many on this forum are non-backers. They came late or were broke, it doesn't matter which. What matters is they are here, participating in this forum, believing in and wanting to see this game, just like the backers do. It is also unfair to suggest that because they didn't back, they can't possibly be equally invested, emotionally, as a backer. Many very passionate supporters are not backers. And they've become, over the years they've stuck with us, very used to the waiting game. They may take it a bit for granted at this point.

As Nate said, there are always new bugs and obstacles. The Big One, however, was the new plug-in based integration project. We explained the basics of what we were taking on here. We underestimated the sheer scope of what we were taking on, although, I want to emphasize, we had NOT underestimated the benefits. Until that was conquered, we weren't going to be able to form a clear answer, except that we still expected to make the end of year goals, something we have been saying when asked (we got here a bit late, sorry TFC)

We will likely have a more detailed, public post at some point. But for now I will say that as of this weekend, that hurdle has been cleared. It works, and it works very very well and has already demonstrated a capacity to save stunning amounts of work. Because it's so recent that's about all we can say, besides for that we'll keep working, keep making that Chargen (it's coming together very quickly), and will stay in touch.

...and probably do need to update that FAQ entry. When you're scrambling to get something like this done with our resources, those sorts of details can get lost, despite being important to everyone checking it to stay up to date. I appreciate the reminder.

This is good news!

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Project_Hero wrote:
Project_Hero wrote:
cloganart wrote:

Let's just say we did not want to explode your GPUs. :P

Cowards!

The funny thing is I'm probably just about in the best position right now to try out a game that might melt my GPU.

First of all I'm reasonably sure my gaming system could handle it because it's fairly "beefy" GPU/CPU/RAM/cooling wise. But my "Plan B" is pretty simple in that I'm seriously thinking of buying a new rig around the first of the year so if the game currently "melts client PCs" I'm going to have a replacement soon regardless. ;)

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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Shadow Elusive wrote:
Shadow Elusive wrote:

Okay okay, this is starting to get pretty heated and it really shouldn't need to.

Fighting Canadian, you do have a point. You asked your question with no rancor and no tone of judgement, to all appearances happy to accept news of a delay, so long as it was clear. That's a very welcome attitude, and I can see why some of the responses you got would frustrate you.

But let me give it a little context. You, yes, did no wrong. Did it all right in fact. Thing is, people question City of Titan's release a LOT and our forum Titans have become very used to dealing with a particular type that is a lot more common that your own approach. A knee jerk response is regrettable, but it's not hard to understand where it came from. It's not really personal.

That said, I do have to address the backer bit. I understand your feelings about it, and likely most of your choice of words was driven by sheer frustration at that point, which is very understandable. But I want to point out that many on this forum are non-backers. They came late or were broke, it doesn't matter which. What matters is they are here, participating in this forum, believing in and wanting to see this game, just like the backers do. It is also unfair to suggest that because they didn't back, they can't possibly be equally invested, emotionally, as a backer. Many very passionate supporters are not backers. And they've become, over the years they've stuck with us, very used to the waiting game. They may take it a bit for granted at this point.

As Nate said, there are always new bugs and obstacles. The Big One, however, was the new plug-in based integration project. We explained the basics of what we were taking on here. We underestimated the sheer scope of what we were taking on, although, I want to emphasize, we had NOT underestimated the benefits. Until that was conquered, we weren't going to be able to form a clear answer, except that we still expected to make the end of year goals, something we have been saying when asked (we got here a bit late, sorry TFC)

We will likely have a more detailed, public post at some point. But for now I will say that as of this weekend, that hurdle has been cleared. It works, and it works very very well and has already demonstrated a capacity to save stunning amounts of work. Because it's so recent that's about all we can say, besides for that we'll keep working, keep making that Chargen (it's coming together very quickly), and will stay in touch.

...and probably do need to update that FAQ entry. When you're scrambling to get something like this done with our resources, those sorts of details can get lost, despite being important to everyone checking it to stay up to date. I appreciate the reminder.

This is very, very good news.

I'd like to apologise for my part in this heated discussion. Others are right, my question should have been posted elsewhere, like the Kickstarter subsection (found that a bit late). I also have zero doubt that those here have donated more loyal support and devotion than anyone could financially. I did not intend to belittle anyone. Was simply trying to explain why I asked what I did.

Thank you all!!

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The Fighting Canadian wrote:
The Fighting Canadian wrote:
Shadow Elusive wrote:

Okay okay, this is starting to get pretty heated and it really shouldn't need to.

Fighting Canadian, you do have a point. You asked your question with no rancor and no tone of judgement, to all appearances happy to accept news of a delay, so long as it was clear. That's a very welcome attitude, and I can see why some of the responses you got would frustrate you.

But let me give it a little context. You, yes, did no wrong. Did it all right in fact. Thing is, people question City of Titan's release a LOT and our forum Titans have become very used to dealing with a particular type that is a lot more common that your own approach. A knee jerk response is regrettable, but it's not hard to understand where it came from. It's not really personal.

That said, I do have to address the backer bit. I understand your feelings about it, and likely most of your choice of words was driven by sheer frustration at that point, which is very understandable. But I want to point out that many on this forum are non-backers. They came late or were broke, it doesn't matter which. What matters is they are here, participating in this forum, believing in and wanting to see this game, just like the backers do. It is also unfair to suggest that because they didn't back, they can't possibly be equally invested, emotionally, as a backer. Many very passionate supporters are not backers. And they've become, over the years they've stuck with us, very used to the waiting game. They may take it a bit for granted at this point.

As Nate said, there are always new bugs and obstacles. The Big One, however, was the new plug-in based integration project. We explained the basics of what we were taking on here. We underestimated the sheer scope of what we were taking on, although, I want to emphasize, we had NOT underestimated the benefits. Until that was conquered, we weren't going to be able to form a clear answer, except that we still expected to make the end of year goals, something we have been saying when asked (we got here a bit late, sorry TFC)

We will likely have a more detailed, public post at some point. But for now I will say that as of this weekend, that hurdle has been cleared. It works, and it works very very well and has already demonstrated a capacity to save stunning amounts of work. Because it's so recent that's about all we can say, besides for that we'll keep working, keep making that Chargen (it's coming together very quickly), and will stay in touch.

...and probably do need to update that FAQ entry. When you're scrambling to get something like this done with our resources, those sorts of details can get lost, despite being important to everyone checking it to stay up to date. I appreciate the reminder.

This is very, very good news.

I'd like to apologise for my part in this heated discussion. Others are right, my question should have been posted elsewhere, like the Kickstarter subsection (found that a bit late). I also have zero doubt that those here have donated more loyal support and devotion than anyone could financially. I did not intend to belittle anyone. Was simply trying to explain why I asked what I did.

Thank you all!!

To make it up to you I’ll add lil’ wings as side accessories to the head!

I mean they were already done, but we can act like we’ve done it for you regardless!

Charles Logan
www.cloganart.com

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I want to thank Doc for the

I want to thank Doc for the clarifications on the current state of affairs vis a vis the eventual release. I have a totally sick gaming rig at present with a GTX 1080 video card, but I understand that not everyone is in the same boat as me. That said, if you can make it run on a reasonable (~$1200) computer system with a decent video card, I think that's good enough. You probably will never live the dream of being able to play a game like this, with realistic looking graphics, on a really cheap, old, laptop for instance. Plus, computers get faster every year anyway.

And as one minor point of clarification to the original poster, I personally do not define myself or anyone else who donated to the Kickstarter as an "investor". I have investments, they make me money in the stock market. What I personally consider myself to be in terms of my relationship to the City of Titans project is a donor. An investor would be remunerated and see an eventual real financial return on his or her investment. I'm not seeing any personal monetary profit whether CoT flies or fails, but I still want a game to play, so I consider myself a donor with high hopes that I'll eventually get a game to play.

R.S.O. of Phoenix Rising

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Radiac wrote:
Radiac wrote:

And as one minor point of clarification to the original poster, I personally do not define myself or anyone else who donated to the Kickstarter as an "investor". I have investments, they make me money in the stock market. What I personally consider myself to be in terms of my relationship to the City of Titans project is a donor. An investor would be remunerated and see an eventual real financial return on his or her investment. I'm not seeing any personal monetary profit whether CoT flies or fails, but I still want a game to play, so I consider myself a donor with high hopes that I'll eventually get a game to play.

Yeah that whole "investor vs. doner" question get's kicked around every so often and ultimately I'd have to agree this is more of a "doner" scenario than an investor one. Again it's a quibble but there you go.

Frankly as a Kickstarter participant I think you could fairly use the word "gambler" as well but I realize that word has some fairly heavy negative connotation so I'll compromise with using "doner" in polite company. ;)

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

The Fighting Ca...
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Radiac wrote:
Radiac wrote:

I want to thank Doc for the clarifications on the current state of affairs vis a vis the eventual release. I have a totally sick gaming rig at present with a GTX 1080 video card, but I understand that not everyone is in the same boat as me. That said, if you can make it run on a reasonable (~$1200) computer system with a decent video card, I think that's good enough. You probably will never live the dream of being able to play a game like this, with realistic looking graphics, on a really cheap, old, laptop for instance. Plus, computers get faster every year anyway.

And as one minor point of clarification to the original poster, I personally do not define myself or anyone else who donated to the Kickstarter as an "investor". I have investments, they make me money in the stock market. What I personally consider myself to be in terms of my relationship to the City of Titans project is a donor. An investor would be remunerated and see an eventual real financial return on his or her investment. I'm not seeing any personal monetary profit whether CoT flies or fails, but I still want a game to play, so I consider myself a donor with high hopes that I'll eventually get a game to play.

I'm happy you see yourself as a donor. The term invest doesn't simply mean to invest in something in order to get monetary returns. I'm not expecting to get any financial gain. Just a finished product. Look up failed kickstarters some time. As a backer you can request a refund from the content creator if they fail to make good on promises and milestones OR, they are required to provide a suitable replacement of sorts (not sure how that works). You can't do that with a donation to United Way. We are all investing something being here, be it time, money, talents or other resources.

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We all are at the least

We all are at the least emotionally invested in this endeavour.

Technical Director

Read enough Facebook and you have to make Sanity Checks. I guess FB is the Great Old One of the interent these days... - Beamrider

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Agreed Doctor. It is a

Agreed Doctor. It is a project of passion to fill that void for all of us that played City of Heroes and I for one thank all of you on the team for your efforts.

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Doctor Tyche wrote:
Doctor Tyche wrote:

We all are at the least emotionally invested in this endeavour.

Amen to that!

Coming from closed beta with CoH all the way to it's closure. I for one am willing to wait as long as it takes. Every so often I just like to see where we are at out of extreme anticipation!!

TitansCity
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Doctor Tyche wrote:
Doctor Tyche wrote:

We all are at the least emotionally invested in this endeavour.

Right !


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Doctor Tyche wrote:
Doctor Tyche wrote:

We all are at the least emotionally invested in this endeavour.

^This.

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Been following this thread,

Been following this thread, and due to the various types and amounts of investment--from financial to emotional to many hours of unpaid work on the part of the devs--it's not hard to see how topics like this become heated even when that isn't the original intent. You're all awesome, and I can't wait to play City of Titans with you.

FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)

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Empyrean wrote:
Empyrean wrote:

Been following this thread, and due to the various types and amounts of investment--from financial to emotional to many hours of unpaid work on the part of the devs--it's not hard to see how topics like this become heated even when that isn't the original intent. You're all awesome, and I can't wait to play City of Titans with you.

Same sentiment as Empyrean here!

Best,

King Dunce

"The world is full of evil and lies and pain and death, and you can’t hide from it; you can only face it. The question is, when you do – How do you respond? Who do you become?"

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The project that Shadow

The project that Shadow Elusive was speaking about is being coded by me. I completed a major step this Saturday and I've been spitting out gigabytes of functional code in 15-20 minutes that is stable that would otherwise take 15-20 days with no certainty of completeness or stability. It's a tool, true, but an important one. Right now we are going through some evaluations and I'm working on secondary features while I can. Let me see if it's functional enough to produce a video...

Sorry about the video quality. I didn't expect it to upload to YouTube and only 360dpi. :(

-----------

Senior Developer/Project Manager/Co-Founder... and then some.

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17 min and some odd seconds

17 min and some odd seconds in... cough of speaker explosion

Supporting how I can, Starting up a DA group for art, stories, and concepts to be collected
http://city-of-titans.deviantart.com/
Please join up if you plan to make or collect CoT related art.

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Thanks for the post!

Thanks for the post!

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The Fighting Canadian wrote:
The Fighting Canadian wrote:
Doctor Tyche wrote:

We all are at the least emotionally invested in this endeavour.

Amen to that!

Coming from closed beta with CoH all the way to it's closure. I for one am willing to wait as long as it takes. Every so often I just like to see where we are at out of extreme anticipation!!

Those of us who never got to play CoH too. I've waited a long time to play a game of this genre that looked so appealing :)

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If we're going for Pathos, I

If we're going for Pathos, I'm hoping to bond with dad on this game like we did in CoH, especially since I just moved to Canada.


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desviper wrote:
desviper wrote:

If we're going for Pathos, I'm hoping to bond with dad on this game like we did in CoH, especially since I just moved to Canada.

Welcome to Canada! Hope you enjoy it here!

"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."

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cloganart wrote:
cloganart wrote:

To make it up to you I’ll add lil’ wings as side accessories to the head!

Please animate them as well. it would be fun to use them to fly.

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I love how this thread

I love how this thread transformed from a “where are we now?” thread to one in which we are receiving small morsels of extremely delicious information. The news about getting over a big hurdle over the weekend is HUGE and exciting, and the hints about what will be coming to us as far as costume options are just gravy.

My urgent desire to start building my characters is reaching a fever pitch! Guess I’ll conceptualize another new one in my “notebook o’ heroes” now!

Name: Safehouse
Ranger: Gunner
Primary: Force Blast
Secondary: Atrophic Aura
Tertiary: Kinetic Melee
Travel Power: Parkour
Status: Traveling. Following rumors of a huge city in Massachusetts that is teeming with supers.

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Safehouse wrote:
Safehouse wrote:

I love how this thread transformed from a “where are we now?” thread to one in which we are receiving small morsels of extremely delicious information.

Agreed. This is the kind of information they could put in the banner up top...you know, the one they created and almost never use XD "Big UV bug is wreaking havoc inside CoT...UPDATE: the World Creator (Avel) has squashed the bug and CoT is back on track!"

Compulsively clicking the refresh button until the next update.

Doctor Tyche
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Dark Cleric wrote:
Dark Cleric wrote:
Safehouse wrote:

I love how this thread transformed from a “where are we now?” thread to one in which we are receiving small morsels of extremely delicious information.

Agreed. This is the kind of information they could put in the banner up top...you know, the one they created and almost never use XD "Big UV bug is wreaking havoc inside CoT...UPDATE: the World Creator (Avel) has squashed the bug and CoT is back on track!"

And this is why we don't update every single time we run into a bug. By the time it becomes disseminated out, it's often times resolved.

I'd literally heard of the bug an hour before I mentioned it here. And we all saw how quickly they nailed it.

Technical Director

Read enough Facebook and you have to make Sanity Checks. I guess FB is the Great Old One of the interent these days... - Beamrider

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Doctor Tyche wrote:
Doctor Tyche wrote:
Dark Cleric wrote:
Safehouse wrote:

I love how this thread transformed from a “where are we now?” thread to one in which we are receiving small morsels of extremely delicious information.

Agreed. This is the kind of information they could put in the banner up top...you know, the one they created and almost never use XD "Big UV bug is wreaking havoc inside CoT...UPDATE: the World Creator (Avel) has squashed the bug and CoT is back on track!"

And this is why we don't update every single time we run into a bug. By the time it becomes disseminated out, it's often times resolved.

I'd literally heard of the bug an hour before I mentioned it here. And we all saw how quickly they nailed it.

So what you're saying is if you *were* to announce it every time, by the time the game released we'd have an entire comic series to read? Sounds like a great way to get ideas for story lines ;)

In all seriousness though, I agree with your reasoning. T'was but a small jest at the banner that's been in hibernation for a while.

Compulsively clicking the refresh button until the next update.

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Doctor Tyche wrote:
Doctor Tyche wrote:

I'd literally heard of the bug an hour before I mentioned it here. And we all saw how quickly they nailed it.

This is the type of thing they mean when they say "most people really don't want to know how the sausage is made". ;)

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:
Doctor Tyche wrote:

I'd literally heard of the bug an hour before I mentioned it here. And we all saw how quickly they nailed it.

This is the type of thing they mean when they say "most people really don't want to know how the sausage is made". ;)

Seconded.


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Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:
Doctor Tyche wrote:

I'd literally heard of the bug an hour before I mentioned it here. And we all saw how quickly they nailed it.

This is the type of thing they mean when they say "most people really don't want to know how the sausage is made". ;)

Having worked in the sausage factory, even I don't know how a sausage is made sometimes!

Charles Logan
www.cloganart.com

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Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:
Doctor Tyche wrote:

I'd literally heard of the bug an hour before I mentioned it here. And we all saw how quickly they nailed it.

This is the type of thing they mean when they say "most people really don't want to know how the sausage is made". ;)

we are just eager to dig in to breakfast....it smells so good

avelworldcreator
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I mainly put up my video to

I mainly put up my video to show that the sausage is being made at all. For those more interested in the gory details PMing me works (eventually - I'm sometimes slow to check).

-----------

Senior Developer/Project Manager/Co-Founder... and then some.

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your sausage was black..

your sausage was black..

now put one up of shiny sausage doing jump kicks around a neighborhood >_>

Supporting how I can, Starting up a DA group for art, stories, and concepts to be collected
http://city-of-titans.deviantart.com/
Please join up if you plan to make or collect CoT related art.

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desviper wrote:
desviper wrote:

If we're going for Pathos, I'm hoping to bond with dad on this game like we did in CoH, especially since I just moved to Canada.

Wait, what?

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"You stopped participating in

"You stopped participating in this forum because non-Devs were being "evasive" about answering questions they couldn't possibly answer with any degree of certainty to begin with? I've missed your special brand of logic around here... ;)"

First of all That wasn't the only reason I left.
Second I never asked non devs anything that only devs could answer.
Non devs often took it upon themselves to give evasive answers but they were not asked for or wanted.
If I ask a question only a dev can answer, I want an answer from a dev. and nothing anyone else says matters.
Of course I often found that when the devs got around to "answering" their answers were just as evasive as the non devs.

I'm still looking forward to playing this game, if it ever comes out; because, even though it clearly won't be what I'd like it to be, it's still on track to be better than anything else available. But I don't want to participate in the forums because:
1) it's too frustrating
2) I don't have anything more to contribute.
3) I'm working on other projects of my own. (I will come back to fill you in on that later and offer free stuff to people who want it)
4) I just don't get along well with some of the people here.

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cloganart wrote:
cloganart wrote:
Lothic wrote:
Doctor Tyche wrote:

I'd literally heard of the bug an hour before I mentioned it here. And we all saw how quickly they nailed it.

This is the type of thing they mean when they say "most people really don't want to know how the sausage is made". ;)

Having worked in the sausage factory, even I don't know how a sausage is made sometimes!

Haggis is a type of sausage, and I know how to make it. So yes, it is quite true.

It is only when we stand up, with all our failings and sufferings, and try to support others rather than withdraw into ourselves, that we can fully live the life of community.

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