Animation Wishes

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Lost Deep
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Animation Wishes

I'm excited about animations being unconnected to the powers. I keep having ideas about possible animation themes.

One that leaps to mind is gadgets: Every time you use the power in question, the character pulls a gadget out and uses it. Like a small net gun, taser, maybe a telescoping wand for a melee attack. This would likely be rather complex to code, true, but it's one step closer to being batman.

Something else I want is shape-shifting animations for melee combat. Imagine like clayface, turning your hands into hammers, axes, or maces to smash or slash people. Now, that's something I'm not expecting at release, I can only imagine how hard it would be to code, but it's something I hope will come eventually.

Who else here has wishes for animation styles?

Under Construction...

whiteperegrine
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of course, although given

of course, although given animations are a bit more complicated I can totally understand if they were phased in overtime. an animation I think would be kinda cool, but would be a true pain, would be something like green lantern and how he uses his power ring. except have a set of random FX's for each type of attack. one time its a fist hitting the baddie...the next time it might be a hammer, or even a huge fly swatter. this is purely wishful thinking though and I seriously doubt we will see this kind of animation at anytime in the near future for this game or any other for that matter. but...it's still a cool thought.

possible animations....allow for weapons to be interchangeable with the animations (within reason of course). example being: if I take a sword based powerset...I could use just about anything as a weapon instead of the sword. sword animation but the character is actually holding a signpost. stuff like that...

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Shapeshifting animations

Shapeshifting animations would be hard for sure, but gadgets doesnt seem so farfetched in my opinion. I was expecting somethink like that at release to be honest.

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POWERFUL looking eyebeams,

POWERFUL looking eyebeams

Shields that aren't just a sphere around a player (IE that are just discs between the player and attacking enemies and a fixed wall that enemies can't pass)

Throws of both martial and super strength kinds

BIG nova-type animations for everything, even super strength. I mean city block-wrecking ultimate powers.

FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)

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different kinds of gestures

different kinds of gestures for taunt
like thumbing your nose
spitting
a quick martial arts or weapon demo
the one finger salute
or if you happen to be British, the 2 finger salute
or if you happen to be arabic the shoe toss
or if you happen to be greek the OK sign
and if you happen to be crude and rude grabbing your crotch
the sit and spin
the chin flick
the raspberry/Bronx Cheer
the jackass ears
and of course the full moon
well....maybe not

Lothic
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TheMightyPaladin wrote:
TheMightyPaladin wrote:

different kinds of gestures for taunt
like thumbing your nose
spitting
a quick martial arts or weapon demo
the one finger salute
or if you happen to be British, the 2 finger salute
or if you happen to be arabic the shoe toss
or if you happen to be greek the OK sign
and if you happen to be crude and rude grabbing your crotch
the sit and spin
the chin flick
the raspberry/Bronx Cheer
the jackass ears
and of course the full moon
well....maybe not

I hate having to represent the voice of "political correctness" here but you know as well as I do that people would end up abusing these kinds of taunt emotes by griefing other players with them. It might be fun to taunt big NPC bosses with these "real world" insults but eventually there would be people who'd just use them to constantly annoy/harass real players in non-PvP settings.

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You pc pinko commie, you ;)

You pc pinko commie, you ;)

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Brighellac wrote:
Brighellac wrote:

You pc pinko commie, you ;)

What?!?! People who know me IRL would never think to call me a communist... ;)

All kidding aside it doesn't take much forethought to realize that a bunch of overtly insulting emotes would be used almost instantaneously to grief other players. *shrugs*

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Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:

Brighellac wrote:
You pc pinko commie, you ;)

What?!?! People who know me IRL would never think to call me a communist... ;)
All kidding aside it doesn't take much forethought to realize that a bunch of overtly insulting emotes would be used almost instantaneously to grief other players. *shrugs*

You could just put a time duration limit on some emotes, eg only able to be used once per hour, 30 minutes, etc. Would encourage people to save the one liners for the proper comedy timing instead of spamming with them.

"TRUST ME."

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Gluke wrote:
Gluke wrote:

Lothic wrote:
Brighellac wrote:
You pc pinko commie, you ;)

What?!?! People who know me IRL would never think to call me a communist... ;)
All kidding aside it doesn't take much forethought to realize that a bunch of overtly insulting emotes would be used almost instantaneously to grief other players. *shrugs*

You could just put a time duration limit on some emotes, eg only able to be used once per hour, 30 minutes, etc. Would encourage people to save the one liners for the proper comedy timing instead of spamming with them.

I suppose they could go so far as to create "emotes with timeouts" assuming the Devs felt there was enough value in it. I also thought it could be made an alignment thing - perhaps it would only let you do "insulting emotes" if your law/honor values were low enough. Conversely I guess the Devs could think up some "heroic emotes" that you could only use if your alignment values were high enough.

To be clear I'm not against these emotes in principle - I'm just concerned about people abusing them.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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Actually I was thinking of

Actually I was thinking of this as an animation for taunt and not an emote,
So you could easily say that it's an attack, and when you attack players in a non pvp area you get a message saying "Not a Valid Target".
Or something like that.

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Evil herder can make this

Evil herder can make this even better ... Taunt purples ... Bring to newbie ... Fart in that newbie's general direction

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TheMightyPaladin wrote:
TheMightyPaladin wrote:

Actually I was thinking of this as an animation for taunt and not an emote,
So you could easily say that it's an attack, and when you attack players in a non pvp area you get a message saying "Not a Valid Target".
Or something like that.

Sure there's nothing wrong with having multiple choices for how you want your taunt power animation to look. But there's still the lingering concern about political correctness when it comes to using "real world" insulting gestures in a game, even if the target of these gestures are mostly NPCs.

Basically it doesn't matter if these would be emotes or power animation choices - the issue still stands that enough people might find them offensive enough to make having them in the game more trouble than they're worth.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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Not seeing a problem with the

Not seeing a problem with the historical "Two Finger Salute" of British history, which originated thanks to Longbowmen.


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Man, animation sets have me

Man, animation sets have me so hyped.

Aesthetic decoupling and FX choice along with costume customization options will make so many unique heroes. I see this as the single most robust system and it still has frameworks with designated roles for parity.

I hear the other Superhero games are trying to adjust their systems to allow so much of what Titans will have from the very beginning.

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Redlynne wrote:
Redlynne wrote:

Not seeing a problem with the historical "Two Finger Salute" of British history, which originated thanks to Longbowmen.

I might be wrong but I thought that the "Two Finger Salute" you're referring to is still actively used as an overtly insulting gesture in the UK. Sure its origin might be from the middle ages but if it's still used today you probably can't really excuse its use in a MMO as something that only has "historical" significance.

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Oh the "Two Finger Salute" IS

Oh the "Two Finger Salute" IS an overtly insulting gesture in the UK! That's kind of the point ...


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Redlynne wrote:
Redlynne wrote:

Oh the "Two Finger Salute" IS an overtly insulting gesture in the UK! That's kind of the point ...

Just about every example on Paladin's list is probably "overtly insulting" to someone, especially when used in a griefing situation. That's why I collectively pointed out that NONE of them would likely be implemented just on poltical correctness grounds. Don't really see how the "Two Finger Salute" is unique in that regard (unless you have a particular thing against the Brits).

I suspect this is why the "taunt" animation we had in CoH was extremely generic in nature and why it'll likely be equally generic in CoT. Again I'll stress it WOULD in fact be cool to have something like your "Two Finger Salute" in the game. Sadly it's easy to foresee it (and others like it) would be abused and be far more trouble than it's worth.

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But I'd still like to do the

But I'd still like to do the quick weapon or martial arts demo as a challenge
maybe the rock and paper kung fu salute also.

And the only person I've ever seen thumb his nose is one of Bruce Lee's Clones
I think Bruce Li but I'm not sure.

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Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:

Redlynne wrote:
Not seeing a problem with the historical "Two Finger Salute" of British history, which originated thanks to Longbowmen.

I might be wrong but I thought that the "Two Finger Salute" you're referring to is still actively used as an overtly insulting gesture in the UK. Sure its origin might be from the middle ages but if it's still used today you probably can't really excuse its use in a MMO as something that only has "historical" significance.

I think that Brit has the wrong idea of Americans. Plenty of people in America think the talk of therapy is laughable. :p

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I agreed with most of the

I agreed with most of the British attitudes but, not all.
will never buy anyone a round ever no matter what country I'm in.
But that's not really an issue since I'm never going to a pub.
Also I'm cool with the waiters taking my empty plate.
I'd rather not have it there, if I'm done with it.

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Brand X wrote:
Brand X wrote:

Lothic wrote:
Redlynne wrote:
Not seeing a problem with the historical "Two Finger Salute" of British history, which originated thanks to Longbowmen.

I might be wrong but I thought that the "Two Finger Salute" you're referring to is still actively used as an overtly insulting gesture in the UK. Sure its origin might be from the middle ages but if it's still used today you probably can't really excuse its use in a MMO as something that only has "historical" significance.

I think that Brit has the wrong idea of Americans. Plenty of people in America think the talk of therapy is laughable. :p

No wonder our depression case statistics are so goddamn high.....

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I would wish for crowd

I would wish for crowd control animations that look like the character is using glue, sticky tar or something like that to immobilise, slow or hold foes.

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TheMightyPaladin wrote:
TheMightyPaladin wrote:

will never buy anyone a round ever no matter what country I'm in.
But that's not really an issue since I'm never going to a pub.

You do understand the idea is that if you go to a pub you're probably going to be there long enough for pretty much everyone there to buy everyone else a round - the net effect is that you've effectively paid for all your own drinks only once (with the round you've paid for) without having to constantly mess with paying for every individual drink you drink.

Frankly it doesn't matter if you're a "non-drinker" or not or in another country or not - the idea that you wouldn't participate in such a logically efficient social convention speaks volumes.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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This one's for my wife.

This one's for my wife.

She's a hang glider pilot and has a very good understanding of the physics of biological and non-biological flight. And while flying in CoH really meant a lot to her (I can't tell you how much it meant to her to be able to fly when she couldn't really be flying), it drove her a little nuts how WINGED flying characters--ones presumably using their wings for flight--would turn with yaw without banking, and flap in completely inappropriate ways and at inappropriate times.

Now, as I explained to her, a hero/villain who flew by anti-gravity/magnetism/telekinesis/jets/rockets etc. could mostly flout the rules of aerodynamics, she always countered, "but I have wings! That's how I'm flying!" I tried the "since winged flight is biomechanically impossible for a humanoid, many heroes use additional powers to supplement and enable winged flight" argument, but I could sense I was in danger of sleeping alone, so I backed off.

So... do me a favor :P.

Make different animation options for flight. If you fly non-aerodynamically--ie by will alone or whatever--then hover, yaw, and pitch away. BUT, let there be at least an option where you bank while turning, flap if you have wings while pitching up, don't flap while pitching down, flap at least occasionally when in level flight (I'm looking at you, Champions), and flair if you have wings when stopping or landing.

It could be "organic" vs "powered" flight?

It would ad reality to the game, and make my life much easier :P.

PS- I am NOT a pilot, so any mistakes about flight terminlology or physics are mine alone, not my wife's :).

FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)

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Empyrean wrote:
Empyrean wrote:

Make different animation options for flight.

It might be worthwhile to remind everyone that it was something of a minor miracle that we got wings in CoH at all.

It took several years before the Devs released wings to the game and given how hard it was for them to initially add other things like capes and animated tails it shows that the body models and graphics systems used for CoH really had to be pushed to the limits to get these things done. Knowledge of these limitations allowed me to overlook some of the "unrealistic" animations we had to live with in that game.

The hope of course is that the systems being used for CoT (like UE4) will be far enough advanced beyond what they had to work with in CoH that things like better physics for winged flight will be possible.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:

Empyrean wrote:
Make different animation options for flight.

It might be worthwhile to remind everyone that it was something of a minor miracle that we got wings in CoH at all.
It took several years before the Devs released wings to the game and given how hard it was for them to initially add other things like capes and animated tails it shows that the body models and graphics systems used for CoH really had to be pushed to the limits to get these things done. Knowledge of these limitations allowed me to overlook some of the "unrealistic" animations we had to live with in that game.
The hope of course is that the systems being used for CoT (like UE4) will be far enough advanced beyond what they had to work with in CoH that things like better physics for winged flight will be possible.

Of course.

And if it sounded like I was making a "CoH sucked" post, then I messed up. This was just a (to me) humorous dynamic in my household and something I promised I'd post about at some point. If flight were the exact same as it was CoH we'd still be grateful for the game.

But, when you look at banking flight and winged flight in Champions and DCUO, it seems like varied animations might be a realistic next-gen option at some point in CoT, though I wouldn't think at launch. I wouldn't be surprised if there weren't even wings right at launch.

FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)

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Empyrean wrote:
Empyrean wrote:

Lothic wrote:
Empyrean wrote:
Make different animation options for flight.

It might be worthwhile to remind everyone that it was something of a minor miracle that we got wings in CoH at all.
It took several years before the Devs released wings to the game and given how hard it was for them to initially add other things like capes and animated tails it shows that the body models and graphics systems used for CoH really had to be pushed to the limits to get these things done. Knowledge of these limitations allowed me to overlook some of the "unrealistic" animations we had to live with in that game.
The hope of course is that the systems being used for CoT (like UE4) will be far enough advanced beyond what they had to work with in CoH that things like better physics for winged flight will be possible.

Of course.
And if it sounded like I was making a "CoH sucked" post, then I messed up. This was just a (to me) humorous dynamic in my household and something I promised I'd post about at some point. If flight were the exact same as it was CoH we'd still be grateful for the game.
But, when you look at banking flight and winged flight in Champions and DCUO, it seems like varied animations might be a realistic next-gen option at some point in CoT, though I wouldn't think at launch. I wouldn't be surprised if there weren't even wings right at launch.

I understand it's hard to deal with situations where you're an expert at something (like your wife with flight) and you see all the mistakes in something the average person either doesn't care about or doesn't notice. That's why they say doctors make the worst patients and why pilots tend to hate to be passengers in planes they aren't flying themselves.

All I'm saying is that CoT is going to be benefiting from software/hardware technology that's roughly 12-14 years newer than what CoH used and that's a virtual eternity when it comes to that kind of thing. Clearly there are different expectations for flight animation that's based on fixed artificial wings versus biological wings versus other things like anti-gravity and so on. While I wouldn't expect CoT to have all these things covered for launch I would actually expect that we'll have at least a few types of basic wings available and at least one "default" animation set for flight. What may come after launch may be other types of customizable animation sets so that the style of flight you want to use will match the "source" of your flight power be it wings, magic or other technology.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:

Gluke wrote:
Lothic wrote:
Brighellac wrote:
You pc pinko commie, you ;)

What?!?! People who know me IRL would never think to call me a communist... ;)
All kidding aside it doesn't take much forethought to realize that a bunch of overtly insulting emotes would be used almost instantaneously to grief other players. *shrugs*

You could just put a time duration limit on some emotes, eg only able to be used once per hour, 30 minutes, etc. Would encourage people to save the one liners for the proper comedy timing instead of spamming with them.

I suppose they could go so far as to create "emotes with timeouts" assuming the Devs felt there was enough value in it. I also thought it could be made an alignment thing - perhaps it would only let you do "insulting emotes" if your law/honor values were low enough. Conversely I guess the Devs could think up some "heroic emotes" that you could only use if your alignment values were high enough.

Please, devs, please do NOT do this. I can understand some villains not wishing to make certain 'heroic' gestures, depending on what they might be, but honestly, I think I can speak for most players when I say at least some of their hero toons will want to make a rude gesture at some point. You should be allowed to have an asshole as a hero. And be allowed to show it.

"TRUST ME."

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Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:

While I wouldn't expect CoT to have all these things covered for launch I would actually expect that we'll have at least a few types of basic wings available and at least one "default" animation set for flight. What may come after launch may be other types of customizable animation sets so that the style of flight you want to use will match the "source" of your flight power be it wings, magic or other technology.

Those seem like reasonable expectations and it sounds like we are in perfect agreement :).

FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)

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Gluke wrote:
Gluke wrote:

Lothic wrote:
Gluke wrote:
You could just put a time duration limit on some emotes, eg only able to be used once per hour, 30 minutes, etc. Would encourage people to save the one liners for the proper comedy timing instead of spamming with them.

I suppose they could go so far as to create "emotes with timeouts" assuming the Devs felt there was enough value in it. I also thought it could be made an alignment thing - perhaps it would only let you do "insulting emotes" if your law/honor values were low enough. Conversely I guess the Devs could think up some "heroic emotes" that you could only use if your alignment values were high enough.

Please, devs, please do NOT do this. I can understand some villains not wishing to make certain 'heroic' gestures, depending on what they might be, but honestly, I think I can speak for most players when I say at least some of their hero toons will want to make a rude gesture at some point. You should be allowed to have an asshole as a hero. And be allowed to show it.

That's fine - I was just exploring options for how to minimize the abuse of these animations with the least amount of Dev effort involved. Alignment restrictions would be fairly easy to implement.

But if we're dropping the alignment idea then having "emotes with timeouts" probably wouldn't be too hard to do either. I think any "questionable" animations like this should be limited to non-power emotes only - if the game allowed you to link "flicking a bird" to say a Taunt power then I'm not exactly sure how the game could prevent you from firing off your offensively animated Taunt power as much as possible.

Again we're just trying to prevent the random idiot from griefing other players with these things. I don't think you'd have to put these emotes on timers that lasted as much as 30 minutes or an hour. I suspect you could limit them to say once every 30 seconds or once per minute and that would be enough to do the job. Sure someone might still try to piss other players off with this but it'd be harder for them to spam if they could only do it once a minute.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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Gluke wrote:
Gluke wrote:

Lothic wrote:
Gluke wrote:
Lothic wrote:
Brighellac wrote:
You pc pinko commie, you ;)

What?!?! People who know me IRL would never think to call me a communist... ;)
All kidding aside it doesn't take much forethought to realize that a bunch of overtly insulting emotes would be used almost instantaneously to grief other players. *shrugs*

You could just put a time duration limit on some emotes, eg only able to be used once per hour, 30 minutes, etc. Would encourage people to save the one liners for the proper comedy timing instead of spamming with them.

I suppose they could go so far as to create "emotes with timeouts" assuming the Devs felt there was enough value in it. I also thought it could be made an alignment thing - perhaps it would only let you do "insulting emotes" if your law/honor values were low enough. Conversely I guess the Devs could think up some "heroic emotes" that you could only use if your alignment values were high enough.

Please, devs, please do NOT do this. I can understand some villains not wishing to make certain 'heroic' gestures, depending on what they might be, but honestly, I think I can speak for most players when I say at least some of their hero toons will want to make a rude gesture at some point. You should be allowed to have an asshole as a hero. And be allowed to show it.

While I wouldn't want an extensive list, there's nothing wrong with one or two things being alignment specific. You just can't make the list long.

In FFXIV you have different salute emotes. I changed Grand Companies, I got a new Grand Company salute.

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Empyrean wrote:
Empyrean wrote:

This one's for my wife.
She's a hang glider pilot

ACHIEVEMENT UNLOCKED!

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OUCH! Unexpected?!? :P

OUCH! Unexpected?!? :P

But she is awesomeness personified. You have no idea. She'd do well in a "most interesting woman in the world" contest.

She didn't know the day we met we were getting married, but I did. At least if I had anything to do with it.

Well, she says she had an inkling, but I chalk that up to her not wanting to hurt my feelings :).

FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)

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Will of Flight -Vs- Flap with

Will of Flight -Vs- Flap with Wings?

Thats a Toughie! :P

Hmm... even though theres 40% of the dynamics that both might share, there are some acceleration/deceleration curves that might only apply to one or the other.. for Rising Up, or Stopping before Dropping Down for Wings...

Its giving me a head-ache. The more I go into it, the less likely would I make it One power. I would Split into into Two. And make people Pay for Flap with Wings. :P And maybe even charge 3 times more for it. :(
Too much Work for very little in return on investment of time and energy, and Gray Hair gotten.

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Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:

TheMightyPaladin wrote:
will never buy anyone a round ever no matter what country I'm in.
But that's not really an issue since I'm never going to a pub.

You do understand the idea is that if you go to a pub you're probably going to be there long enough for pretty much everyone there to buy everyone else a round - the net effect is that you've effectively paid for all your own drinks only once (with the round you've paid for) without having to constantly mess with paying for every individual drink you drink.
Frankly it doesn't matter if you're a "non-drinker" or not or in another country or not - the idea that you wouldn't participate in such a logically efficient social convention speaks volumes.

Actually I do understand it and it's not a matter of money. Also I do occasionally have a drink at home. But I believe there is something seriously wrong with drinking in a bar or anywhere that you can't spend the night and sleep it off.

and you can read as many volumes as you like into it, but all I said is that I wont buy anyone a round. and I'm not going to a pub.

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TheMightyPaladin wrote:
TheMightyPaladin wrote:

Lothic wrote:
TheMightyPaladin wrote:
will never buy anyone a round ever no matter what country I'm in.
But that's not really an issue since I'm never going to a pub.

You do understand the idea is that if you go to a pub you're probably going to be there long enough for pretty much everyone there to buy everyone else a round - the net effect is that you've effectively paid for all your own drinks only once (with the round you've paid for) without having to constantly mess with paying for every individual drink you drink.
Frankly it doesn't matter if you're a "non-drinker" or not or in another country or not - the idea that you wouldn't participate in such a logically efficient social convention speaks volumes.

Actually I do understand it and it's not a matter of money. Also I do occasionally have a drink at home. But I believe there is something seriously wrong with drinking in a bar or anywhere that you can't spend the night and sleep it off.
and you can read as many volumes as you like into it, but all I said is that I wont buy anyone a round. and I'm not going to a pub.

The concepts of "going to drink in a bar" in America and "spending time at your local pub" in Britain are remarkably different experiences for the most part. I can only say I'm sorry you've assumed they are somehow 100% equivalent. For one thing it's practically unheard of that you have to drive to your local pub - most are within easy walking distance to your house almost regardless of where you live so there's typically no issue with "sleeping it off" or whatever other moral hang-ups you seem to have about it.

For what it's worth I'm the type of person who only has a few drinks or so a month. But I've had the pleasure of spending time in several English pubs and they were all very enjoyable experiences. YMMV of course.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:

I can only say I'm sorry you've assumed they are somehow 100% equivalent.

And I can only say that you've assume quite a bit.

I never assumed the 2 were exactly the same anyway. I just didn't know what the differences were. for example, I didn't know that pubs tend to be in residential areas.

Knowing This, I no longer feel that drinking at a pub is automatically a terrible thing to do.

I still would never do it myself. I simply couldn't ever feel comfortable doing something like that, (Way too many personal hang ups).

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It's kind of a side effect of

It's kind of a side effect of American sprawl and 20th Century city planning. We have these huge areas of all the same zoning, virtually requiring motor vehicles to get anywhere interesting, and we really don't invest in public transit systems outside our largest cities. So we have this whole mindset (and to a significant extent, reality) that not having a car is tantamount to having no practical mobility, and the voters aren't interested in building anything but more roads and bigger highways.

Going to a local store for groceries and booze are out because we'd rather go to the supermarket for everything, even if it's a half-hour drive and parking is insane.

Has anyone seen my mind? It was right here...

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Since I have nothing to say

Since I have nothing to say on pubs or bars, I'll comment on alternate animation styles I wish to see.

Name: Medium range melee.

Concept: Melee style powers that hit from a distance.

Alternate animations.

1) Superspeed. You speed over to, past and around your opponents then hit 'em where it hurts. (Since you're fighting at superspeed, that should be most places.)

2) Teleportation. You teleport over in a flash, and go through a longer attack animation, instead of a flurry of shorts.

Basically, with superspeed, you'd rush over and attack with a series of attacks, while teleport would get you over instantly for a single attack with the same attack strength and animation length overall.

This would play slightly differently from powersets such as gun melee, which would rely, presumably, in pistols with short animations, but play more like a ranged attack.

Longtime City of Heroes player, longtime writer. :)

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I'd say it's more a thing

I'd say it's more a thing that American's are just fat and lazy. I say this as an American btw :p

I know to many who jump in acar to go to a store 1-3 blocks away to buy a soda and then come back, instead of walking, and then sit on their butts complaining about being fat. On the bright side, I usually get them to stop complaining about it to me and usually to shut up about it after commenting on this fact around them...often...>_>

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AmbiDreamer wrote:
AmbiDreamer wrote:

styles I wish to see.
Name: Medium range melee.
Concept: Melee style powers that hit from a distance.
Alternate animations.
1) Superspeed. You speed over to, past and around your opponents then hit 'em where it hurts. (Since you're fighting at superspeed, that should be most places.)
2) Teleportation. You teleport over in a flash, and go through a longer attack animation, instead of a flurry of shorts.
Basically, with superspeed, you'd rush over and attack with a series of attacks, while teleport would get you over instantly for a single attack with the same attack strength and animation length overall.

I have to Ask, when a Foe thats primarily Melee tries to approach you... how do you see that confrontation transpire?

I'm neither Against this or for it either, just want to understand how the fight might happen.

- Will this make it allot more difficult for mobs of Melee based Foes that were once swarming around you, to land a hit while you're semi ranged powers animation finishes playing...
Or will there be a Ghost Image of your character at the spawn point for Melee based Foes to hit you during the Melee based ranged attacks? And if Not, what sort of unfairness will players Without those powersets view this... and eventually have many players Switch to these types of powersets, and mostly just play with them?

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Dramatic falling animations

Dramatic falling animations for when we're defeated
longer more varied dance animations so we aren't just doing one move over and over.

an e-mote menu that doesn't automatically close when I click it,
so I can switch from one emote to another more quickly
still want a little x to click so I can close it when I'm done
but switching more quickly from one emote to another could be a lot of fun
and I'd use them a lot more often if it was easier.

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TheMightyPaladin wrote:
TheMightyPaladin wrote:

Dramatic falling animations for when we're defeated

Ragdoll!

TheMightyPaladin wrote:

an e-mote menu that doesn't automatically close when I click it,
so I can switch from one emote to another more quickly
still want a little x to click so I can close it when I'm done

Basically, pinning menus as windows. STO has these.

Has anyone seen my mind? It was right here...

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Izzy wrote:
Izzy wrote:

AmbiDreamer wrote:
styles I wish to see.
Name: Medium range melee.
Concept: Melee style powers that hit from a distance.
Alternate animations.
1) Superspeed. You speed over to, past and around your opponents then hit 'em where it hurts. (Since you're fighting at superspeed, that should be most places.)
2) Teleportation. You teleport over in a flash, and go through a longer attack animation, instead of a flurry of shorts.
Basically, with superspeed, you'd rush over and attack with a series of attacks, while teleport would get you over instantly for a single attack with the same attack strength and animation length overall.

I have to Ask, when a Foe that's primarily Melee tries to approach you... how do you see that confrontation transpire?
I'm neither Against this or for it either, just want to understand how the fight might happen.
- Will this make it allot more difficult for mobs of Melee based Foes that were once swarming around you, to land a hit while you're semi ranged powers animation finishes playing...
Or will there be a Ghost Image of your character at the spawn point for Melee based Foes to hit you during the Melee based ranged attacks? And if Not, what sort of unfairness will players Without those powersets view this... and eventually have many players Switch to these types of powersets, and mostly just play with them?

I'd have to figure out how the powers would work there. Should I do that on this thread or another thread?

Longtime City of Heroes player, longtime writer. :)

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AmbiDreamer wrote:
AmbiDreamer wrote:

Izzy wrote:
AmbiDreamer wrote:
styles I wish to see.
Name: Medium range melee.
Concept: Melee style powers that hit from a distance.
Alternate animations.
1) Superspeed. You speed over to, past and around your opponents then hit 'em where it hurts. (Since you're fighting at superspeed, that should be most places.)
2) Teleportation. You teleport over in a flash, and go through a longer attack animation, instead of a flurry of shorts.
Basically, with superspeed, you'd rush over and attack with a series of attacks, while teleport would get you over instantly for a single attack with the same attack strength and animation length overall.

I have to Ask, when a Foe that's primarily Melee tries to approach you... how do you see that confrontation transpire?
I'm neither Against this or for it either, just want to understand how the fight might happen.
- Will this make it allot more difficult for mobs of Melee based Foes that were once swarming around you, to land a hit while you're semi ranged powers animation finishes playing...
Or will there be a Ghost Image of your character at the spawn point for Melee based Foes to hit you during the Melee based ranged attacks? And if Not, what sort of unfairness will players Without those powersets view this... and eventually have many players Switch to these types of powersets, and mostly just play with them?

I'd have to figure out how the powers would work there. Should I do that on this thread or another thread?

Here's how we plan to handle it, both the super speed and the teleport attack that actually relocate the player character are basically lunge attacks. These will be few and far between within actual attack sets themselves, but will also be used in our Combat Mobility Tertiary Set. That is one set that can use a variety of movement power themed attack animations.

The other way is animations that actually doesn't relocate the player character, just use an animation that simulates the movement. The player characer never actually moves, its purely done via the animation. Attacks that land on the character can easily be chalked up to several possible scenarios - hit before the move, hit during the move, hit upon returning from the move, hit when prepping to perform a move (imagine a 2.5 second animation time, the actual animation from the current PC location to the target and back again happens within a few tenths of a second, the remaining time needs to be used up, perhaps by an digging in to charge or slow-mo concentration portion of the animation ((I'm not an animator)).


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Tannim222 wrote:
Tannim222 wrote:

Here's how we plan to handle it, both the super speed and the teleport attack that actually relocate the player character are basically lunge attacks. These will be few and far between within actual attack sets themselves, but will also be used in our Combat Mobility Tertiary Set. That is one set that can use a variety of movement power themed attack animations.
The other way is animations that actually doesn't relocate the player character, just use an animation that simulates the movement. The player characer never actually moves, its purely done via the animation. Attacks that land on the character can easily be chalked up to several possible scenarios - hit before the move, hit during the move, hit upon returning from the move, hit when prepping to perform a move (imagine a 2.5 second animation time, the actual animation from the current PC location to the target and back again happens within a few tenths of a second, the remaining time needs to be used up, perhaps by an digging in to charge or slow-mo concentration portion of the animation ((I'm not an animator)).

just curious...but will these be abortable or once activated your locked into the animation until completed? aborting would be nice and could even say 0 damage if aborted. I ok with being locked in as well. just kinda curious. :)

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As for an insulting gesture,

As for an insulting gesture, how about the "Spaceball Salute"? LOL

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Can we have 2 or 3 animations

Can we have 2 or 3 animations attached to single powers, so it doesn't look the same every time?
The game could cycle through the animations in order.

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TheMightyPaladin wrote:
TheMightyPaladin wrote:

Can we have 2 or 3 animations attached to single powers, so it doesn't look the same every time?
The game could cycle through the animations in order.

I LOVE the idea of cycling through animations so, say, a punch doesn't look the same every time.

No, how doable that is may be another issue.

FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)

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Empyrean wrote:
Empyrean wrote:

I LOVE the idea of cycling through animations so, say, a punch doesn't look the same every time.
No, how doable that is may be another issue.

To make things easier on MWM, perhaps just have 2 animations to start with.. and initially just for the Lite Attacks, that you might See Very Often. :)

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Izzy wrote:
Izzy wrote:

Empyrean wrote:
I LOVE the idea of cycling through animations so, say, a punch doesn't look the same every time.
No, how doable that is may be another issue.

To make things easier on MWM, perhaps just have 2 animations to start with.. and initially just for the Lite Attacks, that you might See Very Often. :)

I'd be perfectly grateful for that for sure.

It seems like there was one light punch in CoH somewhere that wasn't the same animation every time. Was it the late-game brawl?

Can't remember, but I remember really liking it.

FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)

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An animation that I would

An animation that I would love to see in game would be a pet that turns into a weapon. Such as a cat turns into claw weapons for you. Or a fire phoenix pet that turns into whatever class you are(bow, sword, gun, etc). For example if the phoenix turned into a bow it would sort of look like this..

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=quincy+bleach&id=0186FB0C7B4863D580B90FEF7067116DB02A5F64&FORM=IQFRBA#view=detail&id=0186FB0C7B4863D580B90FEF7067116DB02A5F64&selectedIndex=0

And when the phoenix weapon is idle for an extended time it would turn to ash then reaapears after a short cool down.

Or if a pet turned into a mode of transportation, such as a small dragon that lifts you up and flies you around or a larger dragon that you can ride. Or a wolf/lion/tiger that you can ride on making it faster to travel on land.

Like most people said, just wishful thinking :)

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I want to pick up my cat and

I want to pick up my cat and yank it's tail to crank it like a chainsaw
then swing it around as a 2 handed weapon
while it's claws spin like a Cuisinart
I think that could cut through steel.

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I'd like to see some

I'd like to see some animations for using guns at melee range such as pistol-whipping enemies, hitting enemies with the butt of your gun, or stabbing enemies with a bayonet. The situation may call for it if your enemies get too close for comfort. Plus, it might make it easier to adapt guns to powersets that have a mix of melee and ranged damage.

Also...

TheMightyPaladin wrote:

I want to pick up my cat and yank it's tail to crank it like a chainsaw
then swing it around as a 2 handed weapon
while it's claws spin like a Cuisinart
I think that could cut through steel.

I seriously LOL'ed! XD

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TheMightyPaladin wrote:
TheMightyPaladin wrote:

I want to pick up my cat and yank it's tail to crank it like a chainsaw
then swing it around as a 2 handed weapon
while it's claws spin like a Cuisinart
I think that could cut through steel.

Ah yes, the ancient art of catarang!

Now that's what I'm talking about, who do we have to talk to to make this happen?

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Tannim222 wrote:
Tannim222 wrote:

The other way is animations that actually doesn't relocate the player character, just use an animation that simulates the movement. The player character never actually moves, its purely done via the animation.

Thank you, now I don't have to do extra thinking on it.

We expect this'll include area of attacks too right? Because that seems ideal for a set like this.

Longtime City of Heroes player, longtime writer. :)

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AmbiDreamer wrote:
AmbiDreamer wrote:

Tannim222 wrote:
The other way is animations that actually doesn't relocate the player character, just use an animation that simulates the movement. The player character never actually moves, its purely done via the animation.
Thank you, now I don't have to do extra thinking on it.
We expect this'll include area of attacks too right? Because that seems ideal for a set like this.

As long as the player can take damage from melee foes, im cool with it. ;)

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TheMightyPaladin wrote:
TheMightyPaladin wrote:

Can we have 2 or 3 animations attached to single powers, so it doesn't look the same every time?
The game could cycle through the animations in order.

While the question of how difficult this may be for the animators, I would like to at least see a difference in attacks when the attack is normal versus when an attack crits.

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Lost_in_Thought wrote:
Lost_in_Thought wrote:

TheMightyPaladin wrote:
Can we have 2 or 3 animations attached to single powers, so it doesn't look the same every time?
The game could cycle through the animations in order.

While the question of how difficult this may be for the animators, I would like to at least see a difference in attacks when the attack is normal versus when an attack crits.

That could be cool...

FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)

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Empyrean wrote:
Empyrean wrote:

Lost_in_Thought wrote:
TheMightyPaladin wrote:
Can we have 2 or 3 animations attached to single powers, so it doesn't look the same every time?
The game could cycle through the animations in order.

While the question of how difficult this may be for the animators, I would like to at least see a difference in attacks when the attack is normal versus when an attack crits.

That could be cool...

That depends, is this a request for the entire animation looking different? That is how the character model moves, any possible trail effect to target, and hit effects. If so, this essentially doubles all animation work.

If it is only in how the hit effect appears on the target, it still added work creating a separate hit effect (even if it is simply more particle effects) and yet another call the system has to make, requiring some additional coding between the attack roll system and the animation system.

If it is yet an additional animation on how the target under critical effect is animated, it adds a lot more work as different animations may result in different results on the struck target.

So its not out of the realm of impossiblity, but something that would hinder the animation design process.


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Tannim222 wrote:
Tannim222 wrote:

That depends, is this a request for the entire animation looking different? That is how the character model moves, any possible trail effect to target, and hit effects. If so, this essentially doubles all animation work.
If it is only in how the hit effect appears on the target, it still added work creating a separate hit effect (even if it is simply more particle effects) and yet another call the system has to make, requiring some additional coding between the attack roll system and the animation system.
If it is yet an additional animation on how the target under critical effect is animated, it adds a lot more work as different animations may result in different results on the struck target.
So its not out of the realm of impossiblity, but something that would hinder the animation design process.

I'd say what ever way is manageable would be greatly appreciated, and just plain awesome.

FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)

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Lost_in_Thought wrote:
Lost_in_Thought wrote:

While the question of how difficult this may be for the animators, I would like to at least see a difference in attacks when the attack is normal versus when an attack crits.

Depending on what you mean by that, there could be a problem.

If you're talking about how the $Target responds to taking a critical hit, that's one thing. That at least can be resolved upon the attack actually connecting (an important consideration with ranged attacks where projectile travel time can be a factor).

If you're talking about how the caster animates the attack in the first place ... that's not just a can of worms, that's a bucket load of worms. In order to do this you have to RESOLVE the attack BEFORE it animates. City of Heroes worked on a Resolve First, Animate After basis, which resulted in animation oddities such as "homing" grenades bouncing around corners or through walls in order to reach their victims. Using a Resolve First, Animate After system forcibly produces a variety of decidedly unrealistic/wacky behaviors in how the game actually plays and animates what's going on under the hood. It's also a system that essentially ignores a lot of physics questions and makes it essentially impossible to make any sort of use of cover (aside from "hard" cover that entire blocks Line of Sight).

If you're talking about an Animate First, Resolve After system (ie. a Shooter Engine, which oh ... hey ... by the way ... Unreal 4 actually IS under the hood) then there's an obvious problem with having the attack caster do a different animation for a critical hit. That problem can be succinctly described as being REVISIONIST ANIMATION HISTORY.

Just about the only ground I could possibly give on having different critical hit animations for casters of attack Powers would be in cases where you're either dealing with melee range (ie. no time delay for a projectile to reach the $Target) or you're dealing with an attack animation that doesn't use a Projectile at all to reach the $Target at range, and is thus also an "instant" attack. So for projectile-less attacks, you can get away with a Resolve First, Animate After set of shortcut assumptions ... but then you'd need to have a SECOND system to handle all of the projectile attacks so as to do an Animate First, Resolve After function, and at that point you're just making (highly unnecessary) work for yourself.

So although this is a nice concept of having critical hits "look different" in actual gameplay, there's substantive logistical headaches saying that this is something that's really more trouble than it's worth.


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Redlynne...crushing dreams

Redlynne. crushing dreams since 1990.

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whiteperegrine wrote:
whiteperegrine wrote:

Redlynne. crushing dreams since 1990.

That's why she has that dancer. You just watch and forget your crushed dreams :P.

FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)

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First of all, I understand

First of all, I understand that this means more work for the animators.
For that reason I wouldn't expect it to be available at launch.

BUT, I've been given the distinct impression that we'll be given a choice of animations anyway,
as part of our power customization.
So, can't it just be a matter of letting us pick more than one of the options available?

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What about a game like Team

What about a game like Team Fortress 2 that determines whether or not an attack will be a crit before it is either animated or resolved? In other words, it's possible to determine whether or not an attack will crit when the power is activated, then if any enemies are hit by the attack, they receive a critical hit. If no enemies are hit, then the crit "fizzles" so to speak.

However, this could be problematic for AoE's since the crit would affect all targets. While this would be spectacular, it might also be unbalanced. It also precludes the use of any effects that modify a target's chance to receive a critical hit.

It's food for thought, anyways.

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TheMightyPaladin wrote:
TheMightyPaladin wrote:

BUT, I've been given the distinct impression that we'll be given a choice of animations anyway, as part of our power customization. So, can't it just be a matter of letting us pick more than one of the options available?

That's more of a UI design question than a "can it be done?" type question. Simplest way to do things would be that when choosing animations for Powers you get a sort of "choices tree" that ultimately results in combining all the elements chosen into the specific animation you wind up using. You can then choose 1-2 alternate animations to build along with the first, and then when using that Power the game just randomly picks one of the animations you've "designed" for your character. Use a checkbox UI element to determine which animations for a specific Power you want to have in the randomized rotation and you're set.

So think more of a LEGO approach to Powers animations, where you get to build the animation out of standardized blocks of action, and then once you've got the animation "built" you save it and then can either make more alternate animations or just stick with the 1 animation you've got. Set things up to that each Power has a "default" animation (for the LAZY majority out there) and you're good to go.

Note that being able to design and SAVE the parameters for animations for Powers could become an important secondary derivative market for MWM, even to the point of it being perfectly reasonable to Monetize the extra animation Slots for Powers. In other words, every Power gets 1 default animation Slot for customizing the appearance of that specific Power ... but if you want more animation Slots you can buy the privilege using Stars. Simply increase the cost per extra animation Slot added to a character (say, 100 Stars for the first added animation Slot, 200 Stars for the second, 300 Stars for the third) and then just let Players decide for themselves how many extra animations they want to tack onto their characters. Sell the extra animation Slots individually, rather than in bulk, and you're good to go.


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Redlynne wrote:
Redlynne wrote:

In other words, every Power gets 1 default animation Slot for customizing the appearance of that specific Power ... but if you want more animation Slots you can buy the privilege using Stars. Simply increase the cost per extra animation Slot added to a character (say, 100 Stars for the first added animation Slot, 200 Stars for the second, 300 Stars for the third) and then just let Players decide for themselves how many extra animations they want to tack onto their characters. Sell the extra animation Slots individually, rather than in bulk, and you're good to go.

You say lazy, I say vanilla.

I'm curious; would that 100 stars buy you just an alternate animation for a single power or every power you own? Or just every power in that set?

Edit: On rereading, it *looks* like you are saying have it just for a power. that assume a star roughly translates to a penny right?

Would you recommend an in game way of earning them?

Do you feel this would create any kind of mandate that the developers have to create enough types of animation to give each style of attack a "proper" alternative?

Longtime City of Heroes player, longtime writer. :)

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AmbiDreamer wrote:
AmbiDreamer wrote:

I'm curious; would that 100 stars buy you just an alternate animation for a single power or every power you own? Or just every power in that set?
Edit: On rereading, it *looks* like you are saying have it just for a power. that assume a star roughly translates to a penny right?

+1 Animation Slot to "spend" on any Powers that character has.

So lets say that you've got a character with 20 Powers (for illustration of example). Of those, 5 are Passive Powers with no animation whatsoever. That gives you 15 Powers that have Animation Slots (1 each, by default).

Now, the Powers Animation UI facing the User would allow you to edit the animation of their Powers. What you really want is a import/export function to text file on client side drive to allow Players to develop (and save, locally) a "library" of optional Powers Animations, which can then be posted in forums and so on to allow sharing of the designs of animations, much the same way you want to do the same thing for costume settings.

Spending Stars to buy additional Animation Slots would give you "floating" Slots that could be (re)assigned to any particular Power. The way the UI would work is that you'd need to specify which Power the extra Slot(s) are to be tied to, and then either manually edit or import from text file the parameters that belong to that Power's animation coding.

So if today I want to put an extra animation Slot onto a Tier 1 Power, I could at a later time respecify that extra Slot be dedicated instead to a Tier 4 Power ... or whatever. If I had 15 Powers that used animations and I wanted each and every one of them to randomly use 1 of 2 animations, I'd need to buy +15 Animation Slots and set them all up accordingly (which would cost 12000 Stars total using the pricing proposed earlier). At 1¢ per Star, that's $120 worth of Stars. Bear in mind that at $15 per month, that's essentially the price of an 8 month subscription fee (assuming no loyalty discounts). If subscription prices are $10 per month, that's a 12 month subscription investment. Of course, in the increasing price scheme I outlined, only the later Animation Slots bought become "expensive" in terms of Stars and $$. As has been mentioned elsewhere, lots of people can drop $1 into a vending machine EVERY DAY without even thinking about it for candy (either liquid or solid). Point being that under the notional pricing scheme I proposed, 1000 Stars would buy the first +4 Animation Slots for any character, which is easily within the realm of being doable using the Stars stipend from a 1 month subscription.

So having a few (1-4) alternate animations for your character could be very cheap. Having a lot of alternate animations would get increasingly expensive. It still gives Players the "freedom" to choose where their own "pain point" on pricing is for when it just becomes too "expensive" to be that much of a showboat.

AmbiDreamer wrote:

Would you recommend an in game way of earning them?

An in-game way of earning Stars? I believe the plan is to make it possible for Stars to be bought inside the game from other Players via the Marketplace in exchange for IGC. Is that in-game enough for you?

AmbiDreamer wrote:

Do you feel this would create any kind of mandate that the developers have to create enough types of animation to give each style of attack a "proper" alternative?

Not particularly. I would expect every animating Power to have a default animation, but that's about as far as I'd want to go with it. On the flipside, I'd fully expect any sort of forum to contain both an Animation Guide post detailing how to create your own animations for Powers and to have a loooooong running thread people could copy their text file exports of animations that they've created for their characters into.

Having the Animation Design portion of the Avatar Builder contain an animated GIF builder function so as to save images for upload to "demonstrate" what the parameter settings for specific Powers look like would seem to be something of a No Brainer at that point. Think of it as being sort of like Mids' Hero Planner but for Powers Animations. You'd have the system export both a text based "code hash" and an animated GIF, making it very easy to share Powers Animations as a part of what it means to participate in the game's community. That way, the onus to come up with new animations (whole cloth) isn't on the Developers, but rather on the Players, using the building blocks of parts and pieces that have been made available.

That said, I would fully expect the Powers Animation Devs to keep working to add new components which could be used in assembling animations going forward ... kind of like adding new costume pieces ... because, let's face it, there's ALWAYS going to be a demand for new costume pieces and animation options. Indeed, I'd actually expect both the Developers and the Players to essentially "feed off each other" in terms of Players identifying things like "wouldn't it be cool if...?" suggestions which the Powers Animation Devs could take under advisement and possibly consider implementing.


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I thought about monetizing

I thought about monetizing the extra animations, while I was at work today,
I was looking forward to suggesting it when I got home.
Red had the same Idea,
and beat me to it
darn.

It's a good Idea

It's something I'd spend stars on

IF the game has ....

you know what I'm going to say....

wait for it....

NUNCHAKU!

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Ehrmahgherd.

Ehrmahgherd.

I would SO pay for animations.

This is good.

I'm not rich, but I do want the game to make money and survive, and I'd pay for animations or happily sub to get them automatically.

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While I am uncertain of

While I am uncertain of monetizing the animation sockets (not the improbability of only the reasonability) it has been always been considered to provide animation pieces and animation suites (bundled deals of like animation themes) in the cash shop.

Keep in mind there has also been a promise that anything that can be bought in the cash shop for the game will also have a way to be earned in game.


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Tannim222 wrote:
Tannim222 wrote:

Keep in mind there has also been a promise that anything that can be bought in the cash shop for the game will also have a way to be earned in game.

Hmmmh. That will seriously get me into a moral dilemma. I really want to support Missing Worlds Media, but I also have a strong aversion towards buying something in the cash shop that I could earn in the game. It is not that I am cheap, but earning something trough gameplay gives me a lot more sense of satisfaction than paying for it. And I would feel like cheating myself for that.

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Lutan wrote:
Lutan wrote:

Tannim222 wrote:
Keep in mind there has also been a promise that anything that can be bought in the cash shop for the game will also have a way to be earned in game.

Hmmmh. That will seriously get me into a moral dilemma. I really want to support Missing Worlds Media, but I also have a strong aversion towards buying something in the cash shop that I could earn in the game. It is not that I am cheap, but earning something trough gameplay gives me a lot more sense of satisfaction than paying for it. And I would feel like cheating myself for that.

I agree with you, anything that you would be able to get in game rather than paying for it I would most likely just wait to see if I can get it, but if it never came around I would definitely appreciate the chance to buy it. Also I'm sure there are some people who have more money than time(or people who are impatient :D) and would like to get the powers immediately

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Kiyori Anoyui wrote:
Kiyori Anoyui wrote:

I agree with you, anything that you would be able to get in game rather than paying for it I would most likely just wait to see if I can get it, but if it never came around I would definitely appreciate the chance to buy it. Also I'm sure there are some people who have more money then time(or people who are impatient :D) and would like to get the powers immediately

Yes there will always be that. But I am not impatient and I really would like to do something with the stars I intent to buy that I feel good about.

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Lutan wrote:
Lutan wrote:

Tannim222 wrote:
Keep in mind there has also been a promise that anything that can be bought in the cash shop for the game will also have a way to be earned in game.

Hmmmh. That will seriously get me into a moral dilemma. I really want to support Missing Worlds Media, but I also have a strong aversion towards buying something in the cash shop that I could earn in the game. It is not that I am cheap, but earning something trough gameplay gives me a lot more sense of satisfaction than paying for it. And I would feel like cheating myself for that.

Hey, to the company your time commitment is important too. The longer you're in store the more likely you at to find something you DO want to buy.

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While I can agree that a lot

While I can agree that a lot of things would give me more satisfaction unlocking through gameplay rather than buying them, there's also a lot of stuff that I'd rather not have to unlock through gameplay. Costume sets and powers, for example, when I have a character concept that really needs that costume piece or that power set...

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Well, one of those ways could

Well, one of those ways could be earning IGC in the game to trade for Stars on the market so that you can purchase something from the cash shop. In a way, that is earning something by playing the game, not using your direct real cash to purchase the items.


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Lutan wrote:
Lutan wrote:

Tannim222 wrote:
Keep in mind there has also been a promise that anything that can be bought in the cash shop for the game will also have a way to be earned in game.

Hmmmh. That will seriously get me into a moral dilemma. I really want to support Missing Worlds Media, but I also have a strong aversion towards buying something in the cash shop that I could earn in the game. It is not that I am cheap, but earning something trough gameplay gives me a lot more sense of satisfaction than paying for it. And I would feel like cheating myself for that.

I think that promise is being stretched a bit too far, in this case. I don't recall the exact quote but I can't imagine that there will be no conditions and caveats. Do I really see them providing the necessary additional content to earn every item that's added to the store? No, I certainly don't. (It would have to be a non-trivial amount of content to entice people to spend money in the store rather than blaze through it and get it for free. Would you pay money in order to not play through additional content that will also get you that item on which you spent just spent money for free?) Do I think they'll have some kind of faction treadmill that will require people to do dozens of dailies to earn the necessary currency to buy some particular animation or costume set? I certainly hope not.

I want to see MWM spend their time and my money on updates and new content, not on content designed to be able to unlock content.

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Thanks for the responses,

Thanks for the responses, everyone. I had not thought of selling IGC for stars as an option or faction points grinding. Those things I can see myself skipping by just paying for stars.

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Tannim222 wrote:
Tannim222 wrote:

Well, one of those ways could be earning IGC in the game to trade for Stars on the market so that you can purchase something from the cash shop. In a way, that is earning something by playing the game, not using your direct real cash to purchase the items.

I must admit that I had not considered this angle. That would work out quite nicely.

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...is everything gonna be

...is everything gonna be monetized? I seriously hope not...cause really, that's the way many of these discussions seem to be runnin. :/

in regards to buying animations....they better be pretty durn awesome. I also would lean towards a "suite" of animations...as I doubt I would buy a single animation. oh, and they should be available account wide....not tied to a specific character.

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whiteperegrine wrote:
whiteperegrine wrote:

...is everything gonna be monetized?

No, not everything, but there has to be a successful revenue strategy for the game to survive and especially thrive so that there's further development. Revenue isn't the only, but it is--the--critical issue for survival and further development.

In the current MMO climate, sub-only won't fly, and buy to play only won't generate enough revenue. So, good monetization plus an optional sub that is worth having are the keys.

Since MWM doesn't want CoT to be "pay to win", to my understanding (correct me please if I'm wrong) is that they are going to have a box price and then monetize cosmetics and perhaps quality of life for non-sub players. And also perhaps some things for sub players to use their stipend on.

And MWM has the unenviable task of finding the perfect balance that is both fair to the players and also supports the game towards survival and further development.

So... people keep trying to help by suggesting things. That's why all the discussion seems to be running that way.

But I have to say, if they'll give me a good game, I'll go sell plasma to play. I haven't been able to find another game since CoH that I want to stick with for very long.

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I realize it's just

I realize it's just discussion, but as more items are raised...more items are added to the "make em buy it" pile. I also am quite aware of the rest...but I will refrain from responding and I also apologize for the derail.

again...if they were to offer extra animations for purchase, they really need to be worth it and I would definitely bundle em up...3-5 per purchase minimum. I would also avoid making the base animations very basic...and only offering "cool" animations for purchase. base animations should be cool to with the store purchased ones being more along the lines of alternates that are available with the "cool" factor turned up a few notches.

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whiteperegrine wrote:
whiteperegrine wrote:

in regards to buying animations....they better be pretty durn awesome. I also would lean towards a "suite" of animations...as I doubt I would buy a single animation. oh, and they should be available account wide....not tied to a specific character.

/em facepalms

Perhaps you'd like a free pony too?


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Redlynne wrote:
Redlynne wrote:

whiteperegrine wrote:
in regards to buying animations....they better be pretty durn awesome. I also would lean towards a "suite" of animations...as I doubt I would buy a single animation. oh, and they should be available account wide....not tied to a specific character.
/em facepalms
Perhaps you'd like a free pony too?

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whiteperegrine wrote:
whiteperegrine wrote:

I realize it's just discussion, but as more items are raised...more items are added to the "make em buy it" pile.

There's a big difference between "MAKE them BUY it!" because something is a NECESSITY in order to be viable (ie. Pay to Win) ... and "LET them buy it" for the purposes of vanity and bragging rights (ie. Pay to Be Awesome). Please tell me you know what this difference is when you see it.

whiteperegrine wrote:

if they were to offer extra animations for purchase, they really need to be worth it

Extra animations, by definition, would be purely vanity purchases. They would have ZERO game mechanical impact. Indeed, the only meaningful value of such purchases would be (in effect) ... social (only). Is something that is "neat to have" something that is worth buying? That is a judgement for each and every Player to make for themselves.

whiteperegrine wrote:

I would also avoid making the base animations very basic...and only offering "cool" animations for purchase. Base animations should be cool to with the store purchased ones being more along the lines of alternates that are available with the "cool" factor turned up a few notches

I strongly suspect your fears are quite unfounded. It's not as if there's going to be a super-duper extra special secret unlock of ALL NEW animations that you can ONLY get by buying the extra animation slots, creating a 1st class and 2nd class set of possible animations (with the "defaults" being lousy 3rd class by *ahem* default).

I mean, seriously ... you're jumping at shadows there, whiteperegrine. No need to go out looking for trouble.


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I agree on the account unlock

I agree on the account unlock! Hate it when things like costume pieces are sold to only one character unless we're going the really damn cheap route. Even then, I'm not so sure. I can only base a few thing on TERA versus FFXIV. TERA = expensive for one character. FFXIV = cheap for one character. TERA = OMG EVEN MORE EXPENSIVE for account wide. :p

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Options are always good.

Options are always good. Cheap for one, not so cheap for account wide. Seems fair. I think TSW has that.

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Well, Brand X, I gave you my

Well, Brand X, I gave you my proposed pricing scheme upthread. Is $1=100 Stars for the first extra animation slot per character "too expensive" for you? How about $2=200 Stars for the second extra animation slot per character "too expensive" for you?

I showed my work earlier in this thread.

Redlynne wrote:

Note that being able to design and SAVE the parameters for animations for Powers could become an important secondary derivative market for MWM, even to the point of it being perfectly reasonable to Monetize the extra animation Slots for Powers. In other words, every Power gets 1 default animation Slot for customizing the appearance of that specific Power ... but if you want more animation Slots you can buy the privilege using Stars. Simply increase the cost per extra animation Slot added to a character (say, 100 Stars for the first added animation Slot, 200 Stars for the second, 300 Stars for the third) and then just let Players decide for themselves how many extra animations they want to tack onto their characters. Sell the extra animation Slots individually, rather than in bulk, and you're good to go.

I believe the onus is now on you to justify how such pricing could (should?) be considered as being too expensive.


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