Please make teleport cool!!!

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kamikaze
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Please make teleport cool!!!

I've already been brainstorming toons I want to roll as soon as the game goes live, and with me being a huge x-men fan most of my ideas come from a single super power. My favorite char of all time being The Incredible Nightctawler! My only problem is coh teleport sucked the animation was horrible the sound sucked and there was no instantaneous teleport. The only true practical use it had was to drag dead guys to the start of the map to be res'ed by the healer. Here's my idea for a teleport set:
1. Teleport- ranged location. (basic movement power)
2. Targeted teleport- ranged targeted (same as above just to a target ex. bad guy, or you're buddy whatever)
3. Escape- ranged random (teleport to a random location away from you're target)
4. Return- toggle (toggle on return teleports you to target, return once toggle is shut off)
5. Long range teleport- teleport across city zones to certain landmarks ect.
In coh it was nearly impossible for me to use teleport as a combat option with a set like this it would give us the ability to use teleport as a viable combat movement. So whattaya think?

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Hmm.. attack Teleport Poweset

Hmm.. attack Teleport Poweset? like Nightcrawler?

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+1 To melee teleport

+1 To melee teleport animations. With and without weapons. ^_^

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Wouldn't even have to be an

Wouldn't even have to be an attack set, keybind you're own attacks to the Tele powers. Just make em useful in a combat situation

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I could honestly play a

I could honestly play a situation out to where every power there could be used by every AT in a specific situation. Not just melee oriented dps toons. Example use the return power Tele in hit PBAOE heal toggle off, Tele back to you're spot. Ranged dps toggle on Tele in nova loose all Endo, toggle off Tele to back line. Just as much as I love teleport this set up not even this exactly, just something comparable would be awesome. + if they wanted to throw a free melee attack in like the rest of the travel sets had in coh it would be even that much more awesome.

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kamikaze wrote:
kamikaze wrote:

I could honestly play a situation out to where every power there could be used by every AT in a specific situation. Not just melee oriented dps toons. Example use the return power Tele in hit PBAOE heal toggle off, Tele back to you're spot. Ranged dps toggle on Tele in nova loose all Endo, toggle off Tele to back line. Just as much as I love teleport this set up not even this exactly, just something comparable would be awesome. + if they wanted to throw a free melee attack in like the rest of the travel sets had in coh it would be even that much more awesome.

Hmmm... that wouldn't fit too well with my code of ethics for a hero. Some Archetypes should never have so much escape options. This feels bullyish in a way. especially in PvP. :/

But, like in another thread where someone suggested SuperSpeed Melee Powerset...
...a Teleport Melee Powerset could also just rely on the Attack Animations to make it SEEM like its doing all this nifty stuff. :)

Any thoughts?

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check out the last 4-5 posts

check out the last 4-5 posts in this thread...

http://cityoftitans.com/forum/two-sides-transpotation-powers

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there's also this thread..

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Well while it may seem

Well while it may seem escapyish... I like that word lol. So is hover all you had to do was hold the space bar? If the play style is going to be emulating the original coh, where you can basically point and click everything (which I like) this would just give new ways to up the action on the players part. Then again I love to chase the bad guys around and let em try to escape (sonic/devices blaster capped perception) stalker hunting was very fun in sirens call.

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I do like the idea of the

I do like the idea of the animation set but for the actual powers they would more than likely need to be charge type powers to get a teleport animation that would look like you teleported in.

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So they've heard the demands.

So they've heard the demands....

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more importantly... they

more importantly... they heard, and listened, a while ago... and were already working to accommodate them... which definitely gives me hope that we'll see something that will work...

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I'd throw good ole Recall

I'd throw good ole Recall Friend on there, maybe replace Return with that. There's also no group teleport on there.

Note: it was never stated (so far as i know from reading forums and KS updates) that there were going to be 5 powers per travel power set, there may be way more. Or, there may be several teleportation sets: Personal teleport, team teleport (Recall friend, group teleport powers), combat teleportation ( Escape, Call Forth (TPs a target to you), Teleport Bomb, etc), and Long Range Teleportation may be its own set.

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Des... there's nothing at all

Des... there's nothing at all to indicate there will even BE "travel power sets" at the moment. as it stands, travel powers are more like Champs, wherin they're a seperate mechanism with it's own slot and growth.... not a tertiary pool (power pool) with a collection of related powers.

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The 1.2M KS stretch goal

The 1.2M KS stretch goal (that was never met :/ ) is for additional " flight sets". While the goal was never met, it does imply that the travel powers will be arranged in sets, where you start with one. This is speculative though.

Either way, how would you propose the variety of Teleportation techniques, form Recall Friend to Escape, be handled. It could be argued that Teleportation could be the most cumbersome of travel powers since the number of ways it could be implemented vary greatly. As opposed to Flight, where one could have, Hover, Fly, fast Fly, Launch (shoots up from the ground very quickly to the sky: Flight's answer to escape), and maybe some kind of Air Superiority (I loved that power, so I might be biased).

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The whole recall friend and

The whole recall friend and group teleport kinda kills it for me though, its supposed to be a personal travel set. I can't think of any.comic book heroes whose powers revolve around teleporting someone else.

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And I can't think of any

And I can't think of any comic book characters who had spines or bio armour. This game is about making your own hero, not someone else's, and while there may be a lot of ways to make a hero LIKE one that already exists that doesn't make it a good reason to take something out just because it doesn't exist in other comics. If you don't want recall friend or recall foe don't take them and just take teleport, but don't take away my ability to teleport someone else.

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desviper wrote:
desviper wrote:

Either way, how would you propose the variety of Teleportation techniques, form Recall Friend to Escape, be handled. It could be argued that Teleportation could be the most cumbersome of travel powers since the number of ways it could be implemented vary greatly. As opposed to Flight, where one could have, Hover, Fly, fast Fly, Launch (shoots up from the ground very quickly to the sky: Flight's answer to escape), and maybe some kind of Air Superiority (I loved that power, so I might be biased).

I just had a bit of inspiration for a kind of "group teleport" that I'll share. Imagine that the power was a ground-targeted power that placed a sort of "beacon" at the chosen location. Placing the beacon would grant every ally within 80 feet or so one charge of a temporary power--let's call it Spatial Recall--that would cause them to teleport to the nearest friendly beacon when activated. This could be used defensively for allies that need to get out of the fray, or it could be used reactively to allow allies to respond quickly to an ambush or other immediate threat.

Granting Spatial Recall to trigger the teleportation ensures that it would be consensual. In group settings, charges of Spatial Recall would stack and always teleport you to the nearest friendly beacon which would give it deterministic behavior. A setting in the UI could also allow players to choose if they want to teleport to only their own beacons, their teammates beacons, or everyone's beacons.

This system of Spatial Recall plus beacons could probably be extended to Recall Friend and other teleportation powers. Imagine a toggle that caused you to become a teleportation beacon while active, or a power with extraordinary range and no line-of-sight requirement that granted an ally a charge of Spatial Recall. Lots of possibilities here.

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Spike had spines, Darwin had

Spike had spines, Darwin had bio armor (adaptive to his situation)... Not to mention the different variations of spines with the lower guys in the movies x3 the dude throwing the spines at wolverine while he was trying to get to magnetos camp.. But I've seen about everything in the game that I've seen in the comics, just most teleporters are a personal thing not a group thing.

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Really? Never heard of those

Really? Never heard of those guys. Not accusing them of being stuff you made up or anything like that if that's what it sounds. It still doesn't change the fact that it is very possible to make a comic with a character with the ability to teleport himself as well as others. It's still a very comic book like power if anything. I mean sure I do agree that making it so you can't take teleport without taking either teleport ally or enemy, but I still want the option to teleport others, I want to choose whether my teleport is personal or not, not have it forced on me. If I want to teleport someone else that should still be an option for me. If a concept doesn't involve inappropriate subjects like genitals or period medicine then I should be able to use that concept. It's like saying force fields shouldn't affect other people because sue storm always bubbled herself rather than anyone else. I still want the option to teleport others even though you don't and since that option doesn't restrict you from just taking the ability to teleport and not take anything else I should still be able to take that option.

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Blink can teleport others...

Blink can teleport others... so can uh...Gateway?

the thing is, in terms of comics.... teleporting groups generally was about opening portals or doorways from here to there, while individual teleportation ran the gambit of "origins"
and I would still say that teleportation as a travel power, and teleportation as a TOOL (whether group mobility or combat technique) are very seperate concepts from an in-game, mechanical perspective.

Both should exist in the game, as SEPARATE entities. Travel teleport should be singular.... like flight or burrowing or swinging from grappling hooks....
Meanwhile, there should ALSO be sets (or set animations) that emulate the use of mobility powers in more tactical ways (as combat tools, defensive tools, etc)

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teleport attacks is about the

teleport attacks is about the only way to ever make Teleport cool, lol :P

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GhostHack wrote:
GhostHack wrote:

Blink can teleport others... so can uh...Gateway?
the thing is, in terms of comics.... teleporting groups generally was about opening portals or doorways from here to there, while individual teleportation ran the gambit of "origins"
and I would still say that teleportation as a travel power, and teleportation as a TOOL (whether group mobility or combat technique) are very seperate concepts from an in-game, mechanical perspective.
Both should exist in the game, as SEPARATE entities. Travel teleport should be singular.... like flight or burrowing or swinging from grappling hooks....
Meanwhile, there should ALSO be sets (or set animations) that emulate the use of mobility powers in more tactical ways (as combat tools, defensive tools, etc)

Yeah your right. Having them as separate power sets would be a better idea than putting them in the teleport power pool. Though I do think they should make the power easier to control. Never got the handle of it and I never as able to use it for anything other than being a tricky MM in PVP. Maybe something like in CO where you turn into a glowing ball that can't be seen or attack and then turn back when you see somewhere you want to teleport too. Say what you want about them but the only good thing they did that wasn't copied from somewhere else was a teleport that was as easy to use as the other travel powers.

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one of the reasons why

one of the reasons why teleport (transport) and teleport (tactical) should be divested, is because then they could scale and balance the aesthetic and feel of teleportation in combat, without actually creating a tactical imbalance among powers.

the core problem with using transports in combat, was always insane advantage certain travel powers could provide a clever user.
by incorporating the look and feel into normal combat abilities (like a dodge-based defense set with the option of teleportation visuals), players can FEEL like they're bamphing around the room without actually being ganking arseheads. (i.e. we get all the flash, without any inherent advantage.)

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notears wrote:
notears wrote:

Maybe something like in CO where you turn into a glowing ball that can't be seen or attack and then turn back when you see somewhere you want to teleport too. Say what you want about them but the only good thing they did that wasn't copied from somewhere else was a teleport that was as easy to use as the other travel powers.

Almost as easy to use. It's useless for recon, requires reactivation if you're going any distance, and last I checked the promised "float gently to the ground" (words to that effect were in the description since the beta) didn't work if it ended with any downward component to your motion.

That said, for a long distance teleport travel power it's not that bad, and permits you to wind up just about anywhere you like.

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well every travel power had

well every travel power had it's advantages and disadvantages. Still, I was actually able to use it so that was a plus.

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There are two types of

There are two types of teleport visuals I would love to see:
-Step/float into a portal and instantly step/float out of another portal
-Step towards the directions your teleporting to and instantly appear there emulating the Speed Blitz/Shunshin/Flash Step style movement

notears wrote:

And I can't think of any comic book characters who had spines or bio armour. .

if were allowed to count japanese comic and animated properties "Guyver Bio Boosted armor" comes to mind

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If you've never heard of

If you've never heard of those guys read the later uncanny x- men or watch the cartoons, and as far as Darwin watch x-men first class. Trust me I know my comics....

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Not saying that the group

Not saying that the group teleport and recall friend werew bad powers for a support type toon or when you were in you're 40's and had nothing better to take. I would just like it see it actually useful to a person like me who doesn't min/max. My goons are build on a theme usually one power, and they use it to its fullest extent. So I would just like to be able to make my teleport toon to use his teleport to the best of his ability not just to haul his friends around. You play one way I play another this is just a power set of like to see implemented.

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I understand :) maybe the

I understand :) maybe the issue can be solved by making a tertiary powerset made up of powers that move people around, with different animations representing anything from pulling out your grappling hook and dragging an enemy to you to teleporting him to you.

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I think the way set are gonna

I think the way set are gonna be made is a simple charge type powerset ( could be used with a shield, super speed, super jump, super agility,and teleport) all depending on the theme you choose for the power set. I think that would be the easiest way to appease the masses, I'd like to see a super speed set too.

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that too, I still want a

that too, I still want a tertiary that moves other people around but I wouldn't mind a charge type power in addition to that.

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I'm still kinda confused on

I'm still kinda confused on the tietery sets, is that gonna be a watered down version of another set you wouldn't normally be able to take (blasts on an enforcer and such) ? Or at least that's what I got from the last post from the devs.

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kamikaze wrote:
kamikaze wrote:

I'm still kinda confused on the tietery sets, is that gonna be a watered down version of another set you wouldn't normally be able to take (blasts on an enforcer and such) ? Or at least that's what I got from the last post from the devs.

That is pretty much it, but there will also be unique tertiary powers as well. They are going to be CoT's version of pool powers. They should play a big part in rounding out characters both mechanically and in concept.

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The trick to teleporting in

The trick to teleporting in City of Heroes was binding teleport to a key. I ususlly made it front and center at 1. Then you didn't have to fumble with button clicks a thousand feet in the air.

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http://cityoftitans.com

http://cityoftitans.com/comment/63555#comment-63555

Doctor Tych explains more about tertiaries here.

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I guess we never got this

I guess we never got this Issue 24 power set, but http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Martial_Combat for Blasters had Burst of Speed (and Reaction Time, which was more Super Speed related) as a combat teleport power.

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notears wrote:
notears wrote:

http://cityoftitans.com/comment/63555#comment-63555
Doctor Tych explains more about tertiaries here.

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With regards to teleport animations, there is some possibility for attacks to utlize specialized animations. How they will play out still needs to be determined, but we did have a talk about the possibility.

As for attacks that actually move you, or move your target, the engine does support 'lunge attacks' and we can summon / pull a target. The summon and pull to you are mechanically the same thing, with different animations.

Our actual Travel Powers are currently under our noncombat section, as travel is being considered more tangental to combat (it can be tacticall useful but not an absolute requirement for success as an attack or defense power is for combat for example). But what then if a player's power set doesn't have a lunge or summon in it and a player actually wants to travel the distance to their target or pull their target? A good fit for these types of attacks would be a Tertiary Power Set based on Combat Movement, with different animations covering different types of Travel Powers. Please understand this is still in the stages of planning and by no means is set, it is however a possible way to provide the capability.


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Tannim's new user image is a

Tannim's new user image is a crowbar but he's not a member of the community moderation team?

I'm so confused.

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Wrenches and Hammers are

Wrenches and Hammers are usually used for adjusting attitudes. ^_^

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Darth Fez wrote:
Darth Fez wrote:

Tannim's new user image is a crowbar but he's not a member of the community moderation team?
I'm so confused.

My forum name comes is that of a much loved character of mine from a series of books written by the amazing author Mercedes Lackey. Tannim wields a magic imbued, red painted crowbar in those stories, particularly because the elves of that world are weak toward iron and having an iron weapon he can legitimately carry in his Mustang comes in handy.

Since I'm currently using the name as my handle, and I'm fortunate enough to be one of the people developing powers, I decided a magic imbued red crowbar may be more appropriate than the old Nerf Bat. Though truthfully, someone else far better than I is responsible for testing and ensuring powers and classifications operate within their expected range of performance, I'm lucky to be able to work with him.


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Tannim222 wrote:
Tannim222 wrote:

But what then if a player's power set doesn't have a lunge or summon in it...

I'm probably in the minority here, but I would prefer if not all melee power sets had a "jump to enemy" power like most other MMOs have. I *liked* approaching enemies on foot, especially at a lumbering pace for a big hulking tank. It just felt right.

Not to mention the silliness of things like SWTOR's Force Leap powers that you could use to cover many meters to an enemy, but not to jump 1 meter up to a ledge.

Spurn all ye kindle.

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Cinnder wrote:
Cinnder wrote:

Not to mention the silliness of things like SWTOR's Force Leap powers that you could use to cover many meters to an enemy, but not to jump 1 meter up to a ledge.

+1

I dont want to see Lunge powers used Excessively.. and if they are used, like Shield Defense's.. Shield Charge.. then at least make sure its recharge time is Long... meaning its not available in the lower levels where powers have a shorter recharge time. :/

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Cinnder wrote:
Cinnder wrote:

Tannim222 wrote:
But what then if a player's power set doesn't have a lunge or summon in it...

I'm probably in the minority here, but I would prefer if not all melee power sets had a "jump to enemy" power like most other MMOs have. I *liked* approaching enemies on foot, especially at a lumbering pace for a big hulking tank. It just felt right.
Not to mention the silliness of things like SWTOR's Force Leap powers that you could use to cover many meters to an enemy, but not to jump 1 meter up to a ledge.

Don't worry, we were very prudent with applying this effect with the thought that it was best suited for a themed combat-travel tertiary. At least so far as current plans go. Anything can change as we test.


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Tannim222 wrote:
Tannim222 wrote:

My forum name comes is that of a much loved character of mine from a series of books written by the amazing author Mercedes Lackey. Tannim wields a magic imbued, red painted crowbar in those stories, particularly because the elves of that world are weak toward iron and having an iron weapon he can legitimately carry in his Mustang comes in handy.

+1 for the SERRAted Edge reference. Bonus points if you can tell me where Tannim went to high school. ^_^

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One of my old friends from

One of my old friends from the same state of Oklahoma. I belive the city was Jenks or something to that effect. The majority of my library is packed away in the garage otherwise I'd dig the books out and verify the trivia.


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The book you'd be looking for

The book you'd be looking for is Jinx High; and yes, the city was Jenks.

I'm in the process of obtaining Kindle versions, they take up less room in my garage. But they're a lot harder to get autographed. ^_^

Sorry for continuing the threadjacking; please resume thinking of ways to make teleport cool.

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Tannim222 wrote:
Tannim222 wrote:

Don't worry, we were very prudent with applying this effect with the thought that it was best suited for a themed combat-travel tertiary. At least so far as current plans go. Anything can change as we test.

Cool; thanks!

Spurn all ye kindle.

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Adjusting the animation of

Adjusting the animation of the teleport to fit your class, would be a plus. A tech who teleports with a gadget should not have the same look of someone who uses fire as a power.
As a fan of the Stealth and Shadow class, I always wanted to teleport with a shadow animation, but it always looked electric on COH.
I lked how pets from the Underworld would come from the ground or from shadows cast as portals.

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Silent Sillo wrote:
Silent Sillo wrote:

Adjusting the animation of the teleport to fit your class, would be a plus. A tech who teleports with a gadget should not have the same look of someone who uses fire as a power.
As a fan of the Stealth and Shadow class, I always wanted to teleport with a shadow animation, but it always looked electric on COH.
I lked how pets from the Underworld would come from the ground or from shadows cast as portals.

Unless of course I WANT to make a gadget using character who uses fire style teleportation. I should be able to make any kind of character I feel like making within the limits of the game without taking elses preferences into account other than my own. Other wise their won't be a point to aesthetic decoupling at all, Since the point of the whole thing was to make power customization as varied as the costume creator in CoX.

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In that case, sounds cool.

In that case, sounds cool. Sorry to scape goat gadgets and fire, as if they are any lesser. People appreciate those animations, as much as any other. I just wanted to make a point in the different looks characters can teleport.

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Certainly agree that

Certainly agree that transport powers should/could be an integral part of how one fights, rather than "a mount", as was explained in that linked thread.
While I don't envision Nightcrawler so much as the Rein-Weiss' teleporting beamspam in SRW, I'm thinking that some kind of battle-toggle could be available for transport powers.

Effectively, instead of Hover and Flight, you've got cruising and combat flight. The former's the pure speed boost, the other makes you a flying combatant. Defensive boosts on the move, heavier melee charges (though nothing like a Super-Speeder's opening wallop could be) and general range increases if you're not using melee. Or maybe just a 'death from above' system.

Teleport could "easily" be a combat blink, teleporting you randomly within a certain rangeband (keeping you, say, within 75~95% of the used power's max range for your new position) as part of every attack, with turn/camera-lock keeping you onto your main target despite being somewhere else in the room and facing some new spot again.. Disorienting as **** if you're new to it, but that's only natural, and might let you break certain incoming attack animations or the like -something, granted, that wasn't gonna happen in CoH's engine.

Plus, If you're *BAMF*ing into a new firing or attacking angle with every shot or stab, chances are it will prioritize certain facings, and thus be very good friends with certain modes of combat. Like backstabbing or death from above factors. Might be as simple as an upgrade of some kind, or a flat chance, say 60% of the time you're somewhere behind the target or something.

Travel powers could certainly be a third aspect of one's playstyle; If your secondaries support/enhance and change how you use your primaries, and the transport type alters those yet further, then even fewer heroes will come even close to playing the same way!

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The tietery set sounds like a

The tietery set sounds like a good tradeoff for the combat movement. I agree not every set should have a chargve type power not everyone has the playstyle that I have, sorry I still suffer from scrapper lock from time to time.

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The tietery set sounds like a

The tietery set sounds like a good tradeoff for the combat movement. I agree not every set should have a chargve type power not everyone has the playstyle that I have, sorry I still suffer from scrapper lock from time to time.

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Kovacs wrote:
Kovacs wrote:

teleport attacks is about the only way to ever make Teleport cool, lol :P

Actually not true, RIFT rogue tank had some really cool non attack teleports. Set a beacon up, taunt badguy and blip back to the beacon regardless of LoS IIRC (I played with one but never played one), you fight the mob where you want to fight it.

While you may not need that sort of thing in a CoH spiritual successor, it is a fun twist.

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Tannim222 wrote:
Tannim222 wrote:

notears wrote:
http://cityoftitans.com/comment/63555#comment-63555
Doctor Tych explains more about tertiaries here.

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With regards to teleport animations, there is some possibility for attacks to utlize specialized animations. How they will play out still needs to be determined, but we did have a talk about the possibility.
As for attacks that actually move you, or move your target, the engine does support 'lunge attacks' and we can summon / pull a target. The summon and pull to you are mechanically the same thing, with different animations.
Our actual Travel Powers are currently under our noncombat section, as travel is being considered more tangental to combat (it can be tacticall useful but not an absolute requirement for success as an attack or defense power is for combat for example). But what then if a player's power set doesn't have a lunge or summon in it and a player actually wants to travel the distance to their target or pull their target? A good fit for these types of attacks would be a Tertiary Power Set based on Combat Movement, with different animations covering different types of Travel Powers. Please understand this is still in the stages of planning and by no means is set, it is however a possible way to provide the capability.

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Also as far as combat

Also as far as combat movement tertiaries go please please PLEASE separate them into two pools. One for personal movement and one for moving others, the one for personal movement doesn't have to be all about charging ether, you can put things in there that get you away from the enemy like a power that "teleports" you away in the direction your facing.

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Tannim222 wrote:
Tannim222 wrote:

Cinnder wrote:
Tannim222 wrote:
But what then if a player's power set doesn't have a lunge or summon in it...

I'm probably in the minority here, but I would prefer if not all melee power sets had a "jump to enemy" power like most other MMOs have. I *liked* approaching enemies on foot, especially at a lumbering pace for a big hulking tank. It just felt right.
Not to mention the silliness of things like SWTOR's Force Leap powers that you could use to cover many meters to an enemy, but not to jump 1 meter up to a ledge.

Don't worry, we were very prudent with applying this effect with the thought that it was best suited for a themed combat-travel tertiary. At least so far as current plans go. Anything can change as we test.

I'm not sure i would use the word 'prudent'..... having something as 'necessary' as in-combat mobility tied to a particular tertiary pool will create the same annoying cherrypicking we saw with powers like hasten throughout the life of COX.

while that's not necessarily the end of the world (it's certainly not my ideal scenario)... i wouldnt call it prudent to 'keep' dash-like abilities out of primary/secondary sets, for the sake of lowered saturation, only to put them in a tertiary pool that every meleer feels compelled to take, to be the most effective.

it might appease some hardcore thematicists in the community, but i doubt it will actually prevent the problem posed here....

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I'd just like to note that

I'd just like to note that CoX seemed to do fine without giving every melee character a 'jump to enemy' power. I'd hate to see CoT jump on the me-too bandwagon when its aim is to be a spiritual successor.

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GhostHack wrote:
GhostHack wrote:

I'm not sure i would use the word 'prudent'..... having something as 'necessary' as in-combat mobility tied to a particular tertiary pool will create the same annoying cherrypicking we saw with powers like hasten throughout the life of COX.
while that's not necessarily the end of the world (it's certainly not my ideal scenario)... i wouldnt call it prudent to 'keep' dash-like abilities out of primary/secondary sets, for the sake of lowered saturation, only to put them in a tertiary pool that every meleer feels compelled to take, to be the most effective.
it might appease some hardcore thematicists in the community, but i doubt it will actually prevent the problem posed here....

Combat mobility and a set of powers which enables attacks designed to utilize travel powers as a theme for animations to their effect are tangental to one another but not equivalent functions.

It is only a problem if as the problem described as "to be the most effective melee characters must take the combat-travel-tertiary" is actually changed to "to be effective".

There will always be specialized character builds that end up in some may more effective than others. Otherwise, for example everyone should have "hasten" so that "everyone is most effective".

It is only necessary if the desire for the playstyle the power set offers fits the character concept.
For those who desired to have the highest possible DPA builds in CoH, they built accordinly to fit that concept.

With the potentially and eventually wide variety of Terteiaries that offer controls, ranged attacks, melee attacks, support powers (both buffs and debuffs), self protections, and more, it is probably a safe bet to say that what one considers "most effective" will have a lot of variety.


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Ideally, rather than the

Ideally, rather than the really crappy "attack in the movement set" we had in CoH, your choices of primary, secondary and movement would all alter how you act. A secondary would give its theme to the primary 'framework', which would then be partially altered by your movement system. It need not even be all of them; could be, out of an 8 power system, primaries 1 4 and 7 and secondary 3 and 5, or whatever (doing it this way would mean different sets have different powers affected although this might be good or bad...) These would be altered by the movement power.

Perhaps melee attacks + super jumping would gain Death from Above effects; you manually have to aim yourself but queued up melee attacks that start animation before you touch the ground get some kind of bonus. Suddenly people are rolling up not just "spear melee" but Dragoons, or those with PBAoEs are transformed into orbital artillery.
Meanwhile ranged attacks + super jumping get less of a bonus (only, say, the higher accuracy as above) but also come with a free kick off their face, sending them forward and you backwards, whenever something reaches melee range while you're channeling, casting/charging or setting up a snipe (without breaking it) automatically every few seconds. Or whatever. Lots of ideas would be needed. Which if your secondary's Fire, would ignite the guy, just like your other auras or whatever.

Basically the idea is to integrate movement powers cleanly into your fighting style, rather than be the "other thing/mode" it generally was.

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Novacat wrote:
Novacat wrote:

Ideally, rather than the really crappy "attack in the movement set" we had in CoH, your choices of primary, secondary and movement would all alter how you act. A secondary would give its theme to the primary 'framework', which would then be partially altered by your movement system. It need not even be all of them; could be, out of an 8 power system, primaries 1 4 and 7 and secondary 3 and 5, or whatever (doing it this way would mean different sets have different powers affected although this might be good or bad...) These would be altered by the movement power.
Perhaps melee attacks + super jumping would gain Death from Above effects; you manually have to aim yourself but queued up melee attacks that start animation before you touch the ground get some kind of bonus. Suddenly people are rolling up not just "spear melee" but Dragoons, or those with PBAoEs are transformed into orbital artillery.
Meanwhile ranged attacks + super jumping get less of a bonus (only, say, the higher accuracy as above) but also come with a free kick off their face, sending them forward and you backwards, whenever something reaches melee range while you're channeling, casting/charging or setting up a snipe (without breaking it) automatically every few seconds. Or whatever. Lots of ideas would be needed. Which if your secondary's Fire, would ignite the guy, just like your other auras or whatever.
Basically the idea is to integrate movement powers cleanly into your fighting style, rather than be the "other thing/mode" it generally was.

keep in mind that the plan i still to divest function from form, in this game...
so your powers could all look like your "flying" or "hovering" while you do them, simply because you pick the "flying melee" ANIMATIONS set for your "melee crushing damage" primary or secondary set....
regardless of what "travel power" you choose.

Now, that aside, there could, potentially, be some sort of synergistic system in the background when you choose, for example, that melee crushing set, and then the "flight" tertiary pool that converts "crushing" damage into "aerial crushing damage" or some such that (which might ignore some resistance or something)

not sure if that's what you meant though.

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A bit of yes, a bit of no? I

A bit of yes, a bit of no? I'm referring entirely to function here.
Basically, in CoH, animation aside you had, say, "teleport", and you had attacks. Both were entirely dissociated from each-other. There's no nightcrawler style teleport attacks, no using 'hot feet' or 'fire aura' to leave flaming trails in the sky (whatever use that might have, I guess maybe when being chased), and so on. In fact if you were flying, forget 'the human torch', your accuracy got tanked with 'real flight', so you had to set up special hover macros.

I'm basically talking about your 'tertiary' set system. If your movement set alters some of your powers, rather than having to grab that crappy little attack power, then suddenly it means something functionally. If they all offer something, then balancing simply needs to take their existence into account.

Your Melee Slashing set could be modified by your electrical secondary, because lightning blades or something, and further altered by your flight set, that, I dunno, adds minor crushing with knockdown chance when you activate a power if you're above your target when you activate the power. Teleport could reduce defense and have a chance of bypassing directional protections (purely by virtue of now firing from elsewhere) but offer no direct damage increase and be doing all this at the cost (and potential advantage vs fire rains or whatnot) of not being where you were a moment ago. Burrowing could leave rough terrain or something where you pop out with an attack.

So yeah, a "tertiary" part of combat.

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I'm afraid i didn't have time

I'm afraid i didn't have time to read up on the whole thread, but i did read the words attack and teleport in the same sentence. So here is my idea on a powerset based on teleporting:

Something about CoH's teleport is it was clunky and at laggy times unusable. So how about teleport fighting as a ranged powerset. You can start at the back lines, activate a power and teleport to a foe to strike them and instantly teleport back, the camera could stay where it was before the attack. A gimmicky mechanic could be a simple combo multiplier where the more light hits you get in the stronger the effects of your heavy finisher attack. The heavy finisher attack would not be a huge damage attack per se, rather a strong CC or team buff.

All that said, i feel this as a side powerset would work best, something you could sombo with your main powers. For example teleporting and attacking with a katana, or attacking with some other form of melee. Essentially converting melee powers into something that is ranged, nimble and fast but has potential for great group support.

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Flow- wrote:
Flow- wrote:

You can start at the back lines, activate a power and teleport to a foe to strike them and instantly teleport back, the camera could stay where it was before the attack.

Game mechanically speaking, at that point it's not a "melee" attack anymore, it's actually a Ranged attack. The animation just makes it look like melee from a distance (or "remote control melee" if you prefer). The way it would wind up working would be to temporarily Invisible your character avatar, spawn a Doppleganger Pet avatar at the destination to perform the "ranged" attack, despawn the Doppleganger Pet and then make your character avatar visible again. Net effect is that it looks like your character teleported into melee range, did something, and then returned to point of origin ... all without moving the camera watching the action (because moving it would be mighty disorienting).

THAT would be something which would be relatively simple to do, particularly since the Doppleganger Pet's action/animation would be strictly controlled by design.


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It could also work with a

It could also work with a simple charge power.

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notears wrote:
notears wrote:

It could also work with a simple charge power.

Actually, thinking along the word *charge* you could make it like a variable distance travelled,where you go further the longer you hold the button down, and the further you travel, the longer the cooldown.

Gives another balancing point for the ability as well... where you *could* end up with better energy management by using short and regular uses of it, whilst saving up for a *BIG* travel distance, hitting everything in the way...

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Gangrel wrote:
Gangrel wrote:

notears wrote:
It could also work with a simple charge power.

Actually, thinking along the word *charge* you could make it like a variable distance travelled,where you go further the longer you hold the button down, and the further you travel, the longer the cooldown.
Gives another balancing point for the ability as well... where you *could* end up with better energy management by using short and regular uses of it, whilst saving up for a *BIG* travel distance, hitting everything in the way...

Umm... when in Combat you would use Short Distances?
What would you do about balancing this? When in combat you tend to use up More Endurance, as i think it should be.

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I don't recall if this idea

I don't recall if this idea has been floated: attacking by teleporting items at/to enemies. I have to admit that I am drawing a blank on how to make this work and be visually appealing without resorting to various tech items (i.e. little bombs for single target attacks, grenades and mines for AoE, etc.). Teleporting a safe over someone's head is a bit too Hanna-Barbera, methinks.

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Makes me think of this:

Makes me think of this:

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Pengy wrote:
Pengy wrote:

Makes me think of this:

Trying to look at the background makes my eyes hurt! :/

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I'm glad to see that the idea

I'm glad to see that the idea to make teleport an offensive/defensive set of powers is still being seriously discussed and kicked around. It looks like the ideas have come a long way since I started this thread: http://cityoftitans.com/forum/all-things-teleport

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A few mechanically doable

A few mechanically doable ideas to add, some obviously using Dopplepets. Forgive me if these ideas have been floated already, there are two current threads on the same topic, and I'm at work and had to look over the two TP threads quickly:

1) Remember how that Incarnate Vorpal Judgement worked? You looked like you martial arts super speed blitzed everyone in an area. What if the teleport AOE was an animation where you teleported around and did a different attack to everyone in an area?

2) Similar (so hopefully easy to re-use animations) use of the same animation/concept, a DoT attack where you teleport randomly around one target hitting with random different attacks from different directions at different angles for damage each time for a certain number of tics. It could be high damage but interruptable--if they nail you it stops. Probably would give a defense bonus, though.

3) An opening attack where you could teleport to a target with an simultaneous Stalker/Assassin's Strike like attack that hits them before they can target you.

4) An escape teleport that breaks aggro or placates as you teleport.

Just some ideas to throw out there. Again, sorry if they've been done, had to scan the threads quickly.

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CoH had a few powers that had

CoH had a few powers that had a teleport theme to it....wormhole, lightning rod, shield charge to name a few....IMO the most diverse way (in the sense of allowing it to fit a lot of concepts) is to just expand on that and use animations to simulate teleport (or SS, fly, jump) combat.

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islandtrevor72 wrote:
islandtrevor72 wrote:

CoH had a few powers that had a teleport theme to it....wormhole, lightning rod, shield charge to name a few....IMO the most diverse way (in the sense of allowing it to fit a lot of concepts) is to just expand on that and use animations to simulate teleport (or SS, fly, jump) combat.

That is part of the plan. The engine can also handle what we call lunges, that is moving the avatar directly to the target as part of the attack sequence. Our animation system is being set up with the flexibility to animate attacks that can use differently types of movement as a theme and can be applied to standard attacks (makes the avatar appear to move to the target and reappear back at the original location), a point to location attack like the powers you mentioned, or a lunge attack.


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That's excellent. I spoke

That's excellent. I spoke about this a while back in a thread and there seemed to be resistance to the idea (was mostly my fault for the way I explained it). I am glad to see this comic book staple (the single power character who only has a type of movement as a power such as the flash or Angel from x men) is being given its due in not only animations but in some powers design. Lunge is a nice first step...next would be the use of a power to relocate both attacker and defender like a teleport attack that has the attacker port to foe, grab and port up high to drop or a flyer who slams a foe and knocks them into the air for some combat juggling. I have no idea if those are easy to implement, how to balance them if they are or if they just are not an option worth the time to make. Its just a suggestion.

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Well, there are a couple of

Well, there are a couple of separate mechanics being brought up here. One is a target summon, which again can use themed animations. A power that 'ports' a target to the caster is no different than say a power that lassos a target and pulls it to the caster. Knocking targets up or down are separate vector attacks in our current design. The possible attack sequence of a flying caster pulls a target to them, executes an attack, the target then falls.

Or for an attacker that enters into combat and to have the 'grab a foe, bring them up in the air, and then knock them down' - the up in the air and knock them down could all be a themed animation of a knockdown attack. Please bear in mind that much of this has yet to be tested. There may be unforeseen issues crop up when we prototype that either prevent or prolong implementation.


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Wow....that's fantastic. I

Wow....that's fantastic. I love the direction you guys are going. Just knowing that your are thinking about this kind of stuff shows how much you are trying to do....

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kamikaze wrote:
kamikaze wrote:

I can't think of any.comic book heroes whose powers revolve around teleporting someone else.

GhostHack listed a couple, but I think you'll find that any comics character with powers based on magic can teleport an individual or a group of people. Doctor Strange and Dr. Fate do it frequently, often using it to take a group to another dimension or a distant place. I believe I've seen Zatanna and John Constantine use a teleport-like power to move themselves and an ally or two. Any godlike entity like the Spectre, Eclipso, and the wizard Shazam have a similar ability to summon individuals to them or send them somewhere else. Any associate of the New Gods can transport any number of individuals over vast (incl. interplanetary) distances via Boom Tube ("sufficiently high technology indistinguishable from magic"). Heimdall's Rainbow Bridge is essentially a mass teleportation device that he uses to move other people. Cloak can send people into De'Spayre's darkness dimension, and can teleport himself and any number of people to any other location through this same portal.

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Likewise, Illyana Nikoleivna

Likewise, Illyana Nikoleivna Rasputina (sorry, my transliteration of the Cyrillic may not match Marvel's) teleported via Belasco's Limbo and could bring others with her; at least she could the first time she was a teenager. IIRC, while she was a mage, her stepping disks were her mutant power ^_^

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This one may seem a bit dark

This one may seem a bit dark maybe villainous but I can see using a 'Teleport enemy to point x' type power where you select a target and can place them anywhere you can see/reach (click). Like grabbing one and teleporting him a couple hundred feet in the air... I warned you it was villainous... But effective!

I like the idea of a melee punching attack with multiple locations/targets in mind. Kinda like the 7-sided strike in D3, but with a teleporting graphic theme. Like Nightcrawler blipping about a room throwing punches at each target before teleporting to the next. Like the teleport is just a delivery vehicle for multiple successive swings. Surprise attack giving a bonus on each punch cause they didn't see that coming. Like Empyrean said have different attacks at each location, punch, sweep, kick, hay-maker, etc. Probably have a long recharge though and significant endurance use.

Another cool graphic for teleport I would like to see is one where you slowly dematerialized/rematerialized like in Star Trek teleporters. Perhaps with a more ghostly effect than this though... Man I can't wait to see what the Devs come up with for this game!

"A sad spectacle. If they be inhabited, what a scope for misery and folly. If they be not inhabited, what a waste of space." ~ Thomas Carlyle

Winterset
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One of the earlier

One of the earlier Nightcrawler store lines had him learning to use his BAMFing in different ways. I can't remember the BigBad's name but he was the Silver Surfer's boss. Nighty used his TP to TP only *part* of the BigBad away. It really creamed Nighty but it also knocked the baddy for such a loop it gave the team a chance to escape.

Another offensive use of TP would be to simply teleport small objects *inside* of the enemy. Visual interpretations could includes object sticking partially out of the target (like an arrow would) or small detonations from the target's body (ewwwwww).

As to secondary effects for a TP animated attack set: confusion causing -acc, -spd, -def, -rech... Everything could be easily explained. The same would make TP an excellent delivery system for debuffs. Defense sets could be animated as having the toon popping in and out of view as the attacks miss, control sets could include 'porting the targets into the floors (again I say: ewwwww).

The main problem with these kinds of animations, however, would be animation duration balancing. In order for these to be noticeable they'd have to be slow. If they're too slow they would severely gimp the character. I assume that since "aesthetics" are divorced from "effects" that all animation times for a particular power will have to be the same. Faster powers will need to be considered very carefully as to how their TP animations would look.

These, of course, are my thoughts only.

CoyoteShaman

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I love the idea of the

I love the idea of the various combat related teleports. Teleport(and Nightcrawler) is my favorite superpower(hero) so I would love abilities that can make it feel less sluggish than it did in CoX.

Surprisingly, Guild Wars 1 had some great Teleport mechanics. Many of them I've read here in this thread. I love the idea of being able to mark and recall for teleportation, as well as an ally based toggle that snaps you to them when the toggle is turned off.

Team Teleport in CoX was useless. If it was in CoT it should be a map-click power. Teleport you and all allies to the targeted map location. Of course, for balance I wouldn't mind if it used up the entire energy bar or something. "IF" it's in CoT.

(I'm still trying not to hear "Circle of Thorns" every time I type that)

Comicsluvr
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.Foresight wrote:
.Foresight wrote:

(I'm still trying not to hear "Circle of Thorns" every time I type that)

I feel your pain brother

I remember when Star Wars was cool...a long, long time ago...

TTheDDoctor
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.Foresight wrote:
.Foresight wrote:

(I'm still trying not to hear "Circle of Thorns" every time I type that)

I don't get it. :/

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I don't get it, either. ^_^

I don't get it, either. ^_^

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Fireheart
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Circle of Thorns was a

Circle of Thorns was a dangerous faction in City of Heroes: http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Circle_of_Thorns

In conversation, they were usually abbreviated 'CoT'. So a lot of us old players still have a bit of frisson when we refer to City of Titans as 'CoT'.

Be Well!
Firteheart

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Fireheart wrote:
Fireheart wrote:

Circle of Thorns was a dangerous faction in City of Heroes: http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Circle_of_Thorns
In conversation, they were usually abbreviated 'CoT'. So a lot of us old players still have a bit of frisson when we refer to City of Titans as 'CoT'.
Be Well!
Firteheart

Okay, thanks for clarifying.

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I have an Idea for long range

I have an Idea for long range teleport that I would like to see.
instead of having certain points we go to why not let us click on a map to go there?
It might not be possible but if it is it would give us a lot more freedom to use the ability.
Teleporting devices, that anyone can use, might still have set points but a teleport power should be more versatile.

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This "click on the map" idea

This "click on the map" idea was floated several times in CoH and I always wondered why they didn't do it. It would make teleport the fastest travel power--as it should be--and would go a long way towards keeping it from becoming a seldom-chosen power for actual map travel in the game. I really like the idea.

FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)

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Even in missions, it could be

Even in missions, it could be possible to click on Explored areas of the map.

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