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DARN YOU!! DARN YOU TO HECK!!
Challenge accepted I thought. So here I am at work, not working, haveing spent the last 5 hours combing through all the updates looking for what I missed, and im only 2/3s of the way through. Then I have to cross reference and organise this into a logical setup. I hated homework in college.
Dang I missed or glossed over a lot of stuff. Kudos to the dev team! Keep up the good work.
Again, the color system is applied to the Con system that indicates level relative to you. In CoH, a minion wasn't always green or white to you. Minions could still be purple if you were lvl 32, and they were 49. It's all good though. I've been making the similar mistakes lol. There's a lot going on.
Exactly, no need to innovate the color system.
I'll post my idea again that looks at the ranking system differently. In case people are skipping to the end, sorry being redundant:
Threat Class A = Swarmling
Threat Class B1 = Critter
Threat Class B2 = Mob
Threat Class B3 = Experienced
Threat Class C1 = Boss
Threat Class C2 = Named Boss
Threat Class D = Epic Boss
Threat Class X1 = Monster
Threat Class X2 = Monster Boss
Threat Class Y = Epic Monster Boss
Based on a character around lvl 34. None of these characters are real, and I made up the Conclave/Lifebane Order for the sake of example.
5 OClock Shadow
"The Five", "Old Scruff", "Wolfbrand", "Tashomono"
Your shaving days are numbered...
Here I thought that the color codes were just a CoH thing. As they say, if it's not broken, don't fix it. As for the TAR system, whether it it is numbers or letters it should be in ascending order. This makes it easy to add on a new higher threat latter on in the game if needed.
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I never set anything on fire accidentally!
The Titan Legacy - Defender of the Inner Flame
....latin?
as ih phoenician letters?
...or were you thinking greek?
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[i]....Fly me to the moon and let me play among the stars...[/i]
not sure the last one tracks.... considering the devs included world-wide kind of threats in the list of nine, already.
it's far more likely that an enemy's 'level' would increase, rather than coming up with a whole new category.
to that end.... i'm still against having TAR 'D' or 'F' enemies being bigger threats than TAR 'A' or 'B' ones...
TAR is a rating system... and just like a gold medal is always going to be viewed by a lay person as 'higher ranked' than silver or bronze.... an 'A' is always going to seem like a 'higher score' than a C,D,or F.
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[i]....Fly me to the moon and let me play among the stars...[/i]
The [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin_alphabet]Latin alphabet[/url]. Just like it says on the tin.
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[font=Pristina][size=18][b]Hail Beard![/b][/size][/font]
Support [url=http://cityoftitans.com/comment/52149#comment-52149]trap clowns[/url] for CoT!
Either way, ascending/descending, I think the TAR system a fun way of looking at ranks. We're used to the ranking system they put together similar to CoH which works like a charm, but I'm definitely a fan of the TAR system.
Also, I don't foresee another rank being created after launch either. However, if there was a reason they had to, just making that character a higher level wouldn't suffice. If for some reason for the sake of story/challenge they needed to add a rank between Named Boss and Epic Boss, but instead made a Named Boss from level 45 to 49, he'd still be a Named Boss, and it'd think, in CoH terms, he'd be impossible for the team to beat. So it'd make more sense for them to add "Advanced Boss" at level 45 with more hitpoints/powers/etc, but still possible to defeat. Usually changing the level amplifies everything exponentially--more so than rank. As far as my system goes, you would just rank this character type as C3 Class between C2 (Named Boss), and D (Epic Boss). The numbers would prevent any sort of error trying to fit in new ranks.
5 OClock Shadow
"The Five", "Old Scruff", "Wolfbrand", "Tashomono"
Your shaving days are numbered...
...right... so...
A B C D E F Z
Phoenician
or
Θ Ξ Φ Ψ
greek...
classic latin was a hybrid lettering system that existed in a transitional position between what we would consider classical greek lettering and modern Phoenician lettering..
.... so (unlike something like cyrillic) the lay person looking at latin characters wouldn't think "Oh, Latin"... they'd either think "Greek" (most likely) or English/Phoenician with some additional greek letters
.....that's why I was sort of confused
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[i]....Fly me to the moon and let me play among the stars...[/i]
*confused by references to Phoenician letters that GhostHack refers to*
Checking [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenician_alphabet]the Wikipedia article[/url] I find this image:
[img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/24/Phoenician_alphabet.svg/267px-Phoenician_alphabet.svg.png[/img]
which matches my long-ago memories of what the Phoenician letters looked like, with the Latin alphabet equivalents...
But yeah, I'd just go with the (Latin) alphabet most of us are reading this forum in ^_^
Foradain, Mage of Phoenix Rising.
[url=https://cityoftitans.com/forum/foradains-character-conclave]Foradain's Character Conclave[/url]
.
Avatar courtesy of [s]Satellite9[/s] [url=https://www.instagram.com/irezoomie/]Irezoomie[/url]
Honestly, I'm not quite sure I get your example..... the hypothetical seems to imply a singular enemy... not a whole CATEGORY of enemies.
a singular enemy can be classified as whatever rank, and still have its own particular stats.....
I mean... depending on how the devs plan it... once you get to the "big bads" (team-level bosses, monsters, super-monsters) it could be like the rikti invasions, wherin their difficulty auto-scales to your level, making the challenge the same level of crazy difficult no matter when you encounter them...
(my personal preference, so that you can never go back to the little hero zones and stomp on those named baddies with your uberness.)
I think the list of 9 is solid, in terms of categories (two weak, one "standard", one "challenging" and one "hard"... and three "very-to-extremely hard")
any variance would likely be case-by-case (i.e. a boss' particular stats, when compared to another)
..right?
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[i]....Fly me to the moon and let me play among the stars...[/i]
Sorry, yes... total brain splat... I was using "phoencian" as a short hand for modern "phoenician-based" characters (post latinate "english" scripts), because the "Latin" characters I remembered were -as shown- a hybrid of what we consider modern english character and greek characters.
apparently "latin script" and "latin alphabet" are two seperate concepts (re: wikipedia) wherin I, and the earlier quote about the latin alphabet, were talking about the classical alphabet....
and both seemingly meant "latin script", i.e. "contemporary letters"
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[i]....Fly me to the moon and let me play among the stars...[/i]
I was just responding to syntaxerror37's thought on CoT adding a new threat class later on & you saying they could simply change the level instead. What I was trying to get across is if they ever had a reason to add a threat class, then it'd be due to a new expansion where every Faction would have this new threat class added. Mob level raising/level matching instead of adding a new threat class simply wouldn't do since rank/level are two different things. Simultaneously, I was agreeing with you that this most likely wouldn't happen. However, in the case it does, the TAR system wouldn't fall apart. I think they'd design more challenging final levels in trials or task forces before they would ever add a new threat class.
So, yeah, 9 ranks is perfect.
5 OClock Shadow
"The Five", "Old Scruff", "Wolfbrand", "Tashomono"
Your shaving days are numbered...
ahh, I get you :)
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[i]....Fly me to the moon and let me play among the stars...[/i]
Ummm... I dont have that much cash to go back to College. English Plz. :/
basically, I took what was said too literally, while at the same time, using another term in a generic and decidedly unliteral way.
and was unaware that the interwebs had two separate concepts:
"Latin Alphabet", being the alphabet used by the roman empire (a hybrid of what we might call "modern english characters" and "greek characters")
and
"Latin Script" which is more recognizable, greek free, version from which the English Alphabet is derived.
So when, above someone said they would prefer to use the "latin alphabet" I presumed the former (hybrid of "english" and "greek"), when they meant "latin script" (functionally, English characters)
meanwhile, I was using the term "phoenician" (the origin of every western script, i'm pretty sure) to refer to the "english alphabet"
...chaos reigned.
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[i]....Fly me to the moon and let me play among the stars...[/i]
I don't hold out much hope for changing the MMO lingo, but it's amusing to think about using 'TARed' instead of 'wiped', which could also lead to the use of such phrases as 'TARed and feathered' (perhaps used to mean that there was a wipe and people left the group?).
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Support [url=http://cityoftitans.com/comment/52149#comment-52149]trap clowns[/url] for CoT!
I don't think it is very likely there would ever need to be a threat level above what has already been laid out in the KS update, however, I do like to err on the side of caution. If there was ever, say, five years after launch some kind of end game content with a special over-powered creature at the end that defied the established set up, they could just add a letter/number to the threat ratings. It's just a little forward thinking and leaving it open in case the need arises.
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I never set anything on fire accidentally!
The Titan Legacy - Defender of the Inner Flame
hah... there are a lot more than just "TARed" that could evolve.
even if the letter/numeral ranking system never materialized.... defining the enemy categories as some sort of in-game, thematic, societal construct... would not be a bad way to go, even if the terms remained the same....
like, it would sort of be the cool thing to do... you and all your friends would claim various TAR's .... businesses would use the vernacular to define their various adjunct staffs.....
people would be saying "Hey boss" and "get over here, ya little swarmlings"
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[i]....Fly me to the moon and let me play among the stars...[/i]
On money:
Do we seriously need our money system to be shortened to "Inf"?
Ingeniuty could work. I vouch for "Fame", as mentioned before by somebody else. I think we are forgetting that not every player who will play City of Titans will have played City of Heroes.
I would suggest going with "Fame", that was after all the root in City Of Heroes' jargon. Plus, a hero or a villain obtains fame in their actions - be it good or bad.
On classing:
The mob classing system is robust. Even 5_OClock_Shadow's recommendation is daunting. My suggestion it to just use the Con System from the game we are borrowing everything else from:
The values on the left represent +/- to your player-character's strength.
(-1) Underling
(+0) Minion
(+1) Underboss
(+2) Boss
(+3) Elite Boss (should be higher, I just cut and pasted their rankings)
(+5) Super-Villains, Heroes and Monsters (instanced)
(>5) Giant Monsters + Monsters (non-instanced)
These are generic names that are used across the Hero-genre, and fantasy genres alike. There should be no harm in referring to a villain who has his own military-outfit as a Super-Villain. Instead of having a classification of "Named Boss", just name them and leave it at that. Even colorize the names so that people have something visual to look at to remind themselves of how strong the foe that they are facing is.
I do not believe that people will care/notice that you are using a similar Con-System to a game that has been terminated. It is a fairly basic MMO concept to have different classes of things to fight.
On Character Building:
Zombieman shared this layout of naming earlier,
The glossary appears to have changed the names:
Instead of "Defense", we now have "Protection".
Gladiator is still Melee/Protection
Bulwark is still Protection/Melee
Partisan has become Striker, but remains Ranged/Support (the Melee/Manip remains unnamed now)
Sentinel has become Guardian, but remains Support/Ranged
Director has become Tactician, but remains Control/Support
I feel that Partisan fit better than Striker. A partisan is a light or guerilla troop which harasses an enemy. Striker seems very generic and less specific to its task. Striker should be the replacement name for Gunner, it does not imply the use of a weapon.
Sorry if this is lengthly, and not too fleshed out in some parts. It is just some quick thoughts I had after reading the glossary.
I 100% agree it'd be great to stick to CoH's rank system as you described.
Striker worked well under Melee/Manipulation.
I don't think Fame is the right connotation. Influence was great because it could be perceived in different manners--such as having a positive impact on who you come across. Fame just indicates celebrity status, and I don't like assuming/claiming that having Fame is a good thing.
5 OClock Shadow
"The Five", "Old Scruff", "Wolfbrand", "Tashomono"
Your shaving days are numbered...
Define fame:
the condition of being known or talked about by many people, especially on account of notable achievements
Define influence:
the capacity to have an effect on the character, development, or behavior of someone or something, or the effect itself
Fame works just as well as Influence in how CoH used the term.
Your notable achievements influence people to be better/to be worse. Your deeds influence others and you gain recognition/fame because of it.
We could go with "Notoriety", but people generally only see the word with negative connotations in mind although it is again recognition for deeds. The short-form for this would simply be "Notes" (Nots with a long o), and that directly connects to money more than anything else. [Its a matter of perspective]
The fact is there are people who will care. We want CoT to be above suspicion when it comes to possible IP infringement. Not just from other companies who could force the legal matter, but in the eyes of the public. The legality of using the terms is not the same as how it appears to others. The last thing the game needs is to be called out as just copying CoH.
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I never set anything on fire accidentally!
The Titan Legacy - Defender of the Inner Flame
One thing I would say for "mob difficulty". Don't *just* a colour guide. Something distinctive around the target frame is handy as well, to show "This is more powerful". this helps for those who suffer from colour blindness as well; not to mention as well that you can *quickly* tell at a glance that there is something different about this mob (even if they use the same base model).
As an example. In Wildstar, although they use some color in the level number to denote the difference between you and the mob, for the "harder" hitting non named mobs (ie "Primes"), they have a red sheen to the model. Not only that, when targetted, their target frame has ornamentation around it to show that it is *different* to a normal version of that mob.
Named mobs wont necessarily have the red sheen to them, nor will they necessarily have the frame ornamentation (especially if they are similar stats to a basic mob), the named part is typically because they are to do with a quest/challenge/achievement
Something akin to 5 O'Clock Shadow's idea of having the TAR explicitly listed, highlighted on a list as in his example or on its own, would also help with this. Honestly, I'd be quite happy if there were some means to see that there is some really tough customer in a group without having to target every one of them. CoH did quite a good job of this, since anything tougher than a LT usually (always?) had a distinctive appearance.
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[font=Pristina][size=18][b]Hail Beard![/b][/size][/font]
Support [url=http://cityoftitans.com/comment/52149#comment-52149]trap clowns[/url] for CoT!
Likewise, "elite" creatures in WoW have a golden dragon wrapped around their icon when targeted, although the silver dragon wrapped around the icons of rare creatures has caused some confusion, especially when the critter is both rare and "elite". The different icon frames used for this purpose in SW:ToR also make it easy to tell which enemies will go down fast and which ones will take a bit longer.
Foradain, Mage of Phoenix Rising.
[url=https://cityoftitans.com/forum/foradains-character-conclave]Foradain's Character Conclave[/url]
.
Avatar courtesy of [s]Satellite9[/s] [url=https://www.instagram.com/irezoomie/]Irezoomie[/url]
I have given the idea of a power/skill progression "currency" some thought. The concept of the idea as I understand it is to represent the progression of powers/skills etc. as a learning curve for our characters. The power or skill in whatever form is assumed to start out small in scale and through various means (hard work, equipment improvements, experience on the job, luck etc) and get stronger as the character progresses through its time in COT.
The main problem I have with most progression names is they tend to represent only some part of the varied concepts out there....
Influence/renown etc sound like your skill/power is improving because of your reputation within the COT world..
Ingenuity/skill points etc can work for some concepts but falls short for others (great for the engineers out there but not so much for the exceptionally gifted or lucky toons)
One thing all concepts have in common is wanting to improve from weak to strong and so I submit for your approval (POTENTIAL)
when you gain enough experience through various actions in COT, you can 'Unlock' some POTENTIAL for a given power/skill etc.
I understand the want to try and tie things into COH, but sometimes we need to forge our own unique path. ( Mostly because I could not think of any INF words that worked )
I hope this helps...
[color=#FF9933]A new beginning, forged from[/color][color=#0000FF][b][i] hope[/color][/b][/i][color=#FF9933] never ending[/color][color=red]!![/color]
[color=red]Beacon of Blazing Faith[/color]--[color=blue]The Titan Legacy[/color]
What about something like...permanent display? like most enemies you need to click on(or at least hover over), to have their info appear over their heads (as per most games)
...but what if, when we are dealing with those TAR's that are S, SS, or SSS, the name is permanently indicated?
it might flummox a small minority of imersionists, but it would be a pretty obvious indication that the mob was in the 'super badass' category of enemy...
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[i]....Fly me to the moon and let me play among the stars...[/i]
So...the currency in Titan City would be pot? Does that mean the as-yet-unreleased name for what will correspond to Enhancements would be Paraphernalia? :-)
Spurn all ye kindle.
LOL....
Perhaps the enhancements could BOOST your POTENTIAL, which sounds like a more positive term.
[color=#FF9933]A new beginning, forged from[/color][color=#0000FF][b][i] hope[/color][/b][/i][color=#FF9933] never ending[/color][color=red]!![/color]
[color=red]Beacon of Blazing Faith[/color]--[color=blue]The Titan Legacy[/color]
[img]http://en.flossmanuals.net/inkscape/toolbox/star-tool/_booki/inkscape/static/Inkscape-Toolbox-__toile-courbure_etoile-en.png[/img]
umm, are simple shapes ok? :)
Aiieeee! A spirograph[sup]TM[/sup]!
Foradain, Mage of Phoenix Rising.
[url=https://cityoftitans.com/forum/foradains-character-conclave]Foradain's Character Conclave[/url]
.
Avatar courtesy of [s]Satellite9[/s] [url=https://www.instagram.com/irezoomie/]Irezoomie[/url]
Materia -> Colitas.
I'd say no. At least not some like those (no offense...seriously). Maybe more simple ones could work, e.g.,
dot, small circle, large circle, square, diamond, 8-point star (square and diamond overlapped), 5-point star, 10-point star (two 5-point ones overlapped, with second one a bit smaller), Two 10-point stars, three 10 point stars.
But overall I think it'd be very counter-intuitive.
[hr]
[color=red]PR, Forum Moderator[/color]
[url=http://cityoftitans.com/forum/desvipers-creative-impulsivity]My Non-Canon Backstories[/url]
Avatar by MikeNovember
I just used the 1st image i found. ;)
I would have liked to use 3 sided, 4, 5, 6, 8, 10... and mix things up a little.. like you suggested.
ex: 3 sided (yellow isnt the right color though.. just testing with yellow)
[img]http://i.imgur.com/6ir4lVQ.png[/img]
ex: 5 sided etc...
[img]http://i.imgur.com/7zG18iY.png[/img]
like that?
I have to comment on the ongoing discussion here;
Threat Assessment Rating = TAR - I like this, we need to use this. As a community if not officially for two simple reasons. Reason one is that it's a nice, simple acronym. Reason two is that it lends itself well to potential puns. "We beat the TAR out of Reclusive Mole the other day. Took a few more punches than I thought." "Yeah, well I just did the same thing to Cher Noble last week. My piss is still glowing from exposure."
Visible ranking symbols: FULL STOP! NO, not triple-sigma for the highest rank. NO! I get the SSS/sigsigsig joke, but no. If you are going to use Greek letters there is only ONE option for the top-tier (Hamidon-level) threat and that is a capital Alpha inside a capital Omega. Use a capital Alpha for Archvillain-level and a capital Omega by itself for Giant Monster-tier (Everything NOT Hamidon in that zone). The superimposed Alpha-Omega is the only thing that should ever be used to indicate a GOD-TIER class threat that is designed for a fully-loaded zone of characters to fight. This is simple symbolism. 'I am Alpha and Omega' may be a religious thing, but the symbolism opportunity for such an obvious choice is too good to pass up.
Now, if one were to get really fancy...combine the con system with the rank indicator so the indicator symbol shows the threat level.
The original Lady of Ysgard. -Virtue
[img]http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2010/203/c/5/Updated_Homage_by_Voldine.jpg[/img]
With regards to currency, I prefer something that's neutral.
'Credit' works well in this respect. Heroes and villains get credit for defeating opponents, completing missions, etc., and the player can decide whether that takes the form of money or something less tangible. For me, that would neatly avoid the question of how one would use influence, prestige, fame, etc. as a means to purchase stuff.[color=red]*[/color]
Ingenuity kind of has the same thing going for it. How does the character turn beating up a couple of street thugs into being able to buy a burger for lunch? Depending on their cleverness and resourcefulness (ingenuity) it could take a variety of forms.
[br]
[color=red]*[/color] This has always struck me as borderline underhanded. "Hey, I'm famous and influential. Give me that enhancement."
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[font=Pristina][size=18][b]Hail Beard![/b][/size][/font]
Support [url=http://cityoftitans.com/comment/52149#comment-52149]trap clowns[/url] for CoT!
hmm.. something simple like this?
[img]http://i.imgur.com/pVRLoUL.png[/img][img]http://i.imgur.com/eDlabKe.png[/img]
hmm.. maybe based on the Villains Morality, the background color can change too?
ex:[img]http://i.imgur.com/THud68P.png[/img]
hmm, i guess we could have the same thing for Heroes?
ex: [img]http://i.imgur.com/dFBtlN3.png[/img]
Well, that Morality gauge could show the Average of all the different standings for your character. Maybe You have something similar to... ex:
- You arrested Helions without using any excessive force. Your public standing with them is +10.
- You arrested Skulls using some excessive force. Your public standing with them is +6. (10 - 6=4, 4 / 2=2, 10 - 2=8 is Avg.)
- You killed Carnies using allot of excessive force. Your public standing with them is -4. (8 - -4=12, 12 / 2=6, 8 - 6=2 is Avg.)
And your actual Average Public Standing (APS) is only: +2.
Dang those Carnies. :<
I assume you're thinking something like this:
[img]https://mysterybabalon.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/alphaomega.gif?w=720[/img]
While I get where you're going... I can't really agree, for a couple reasons:
[list][*]1. the only reason to use greek letters was to obfuscate the in-joke of "game-rating" enemy types behind a layer of symbolism.
[*]2. Without the "in-joke", there's no reason to use greek letters at all, imo.
[*]3. Alpha and Omega is, like Chi-rho, a symbol created using Greek letters that has an and implicit christian meaning... just like a 6-pointed star or a "Short armed cross" could be called "just symbols", they are universally recognized as having a specific connotation.... and, in fact, your justification for USING the symbol in the first place, [b]is[/b] that association.
[*]4. I'm highly opposed to either using established religious iconography to define any meta-game quality of COT, or to thematically (i.e. IC/In-game) any entity in the game by such terms (A god-like monster, works... but not a "jewish monster"... if that makes sense)
[*]5. as stated before, I really hate using the omega symbol as a catchall for "ultimate awesome"... and while I can't (and wouldn't want to) stop players from utilizing its culturally normative implicit meaning in their characters and stories..... I would really like to avoid the omnipresent qualities of this experience (the game mechanics and setting) from using that trope.[/list]
Now, as for "visible ranking symbols"... remember that the idea/goal is to supplant the traditional [i]minion, lietuenant, boss, elite boss[/i] type of "Visible ranking titles"
In a game where heroes and villains and everything else in between will engage in combat, a "titles" system require apropriate titles for both sides
i.e. it's weird defining a beatcop as a "minion" and a sentient pile of sludge as a "boss"
in that respect, Titles rapidly become combersome...
they either need to be so generic as to fit into any situation... making them difficult to really qualify by sight (you have to just KNOW that a "swarmling" is less dangerous than a "critter", for example)
OR
you're forced to redefine these categories for each group type (bad humans use list A, good humans use list B, bad supernatural creatures use list C...etc...et al)
The solution, is the TAR that I suggested, and others have been discussing.
removing explicit thematics from the enemy-types, and change it to a more universal system that can apply to any type of enemy...
The idea is NOT to have TAR be an ancellary or "additional" system, alongside enemy type titles... nor is it intended to be an alternate version of the color-coded Con system.
it is a replacement for words like "Minion" and "Epic Boss Monster" that is quick, simple, and universal
now, whether we use English letters, Greek letters, Cyrillic letters or anything else is ultimately immaterial... however MOST gamers understand English and Greek lettering best (outside of their native language, if it uses something different)... which adds to the universality of the concept...
most gamers are ALSO familiar and accepting of the concept that "F" is a "bad grade" while "A" is a "good grade".... and many, if not most, have experienced the japanese gaming tradition of using "S" as a "better than A" rating.
further, the use of S, SS, and SSS as definitions of enemy strength provides a strict and definitive line between "solo" enemies and "team" enemies, regardless of what the mob might look like.
All of these elements combine to provide a clear, concise, uncluttered, non-denominational, non-jargon, and universal system of information transmission about enemy type, WITHOUT the need to come up with terms that fit blue and red side mobs, or adopt the symbolism or lore of any other source (be it other game worlds, literary settings, genres, or religions... even other languages)
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[i]....Fly me to the moon and let me play among the stars...[/i]
not sure if anyone suggested it before... but what about [b]Respect[/b]?
it definitely works for both sides, and it's easily explainable in Comic terms...
Tony stark Respects Spiderman, so designs an iron-spider suit for him....
that sort of thing...
Respect can work for any side of the line.... what would change, is WHO is giving you that respect... whether it's shop keepers offering you gifts for being such a great guy/gal, or other heroes acknowledging your good works and wanting to help you in your endevors...
....or shop keepers being fearful you might burn down their place if they don't give you what you want, or villains hoping to gain some pull with you, by offering up primo kit....
It shortens easily to "Res" and There's a lot of room to make a Currency symbol around an "R" (easy to make something new, just for us, as long as it doesn't look like the Rupee symbol, pretty much)
I like it better than "Fame", way better than "Ingenuity", and even better than "Influence", honestly... as it implies that others are doing for you, BECAUSE they respect you... not because you have lots of influence (less "Godfather-y"... but can still function in that capacity if you want)
it also functions in the same way as influence conceptionally.... in that you don't necessarily need to be a visible Icon (Superman, Captain America) for it to make sense... (like "Fame" might)
as you do more, you gain more RESPECT from your respective community.... reguardless of how "well known" you are.
Basically, it's like the flip side of the same coin as influence... it's less implicitly aggressive than influence, and implies something more like your community and peers helping you out, rather than you demanding favors from them....
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[i]....Fly me to the moon and let me play among the stars...[/i]
Presuming that this would mean that the act of modifying a character's powers would be renamed to something other than "respec", it would at least eliminate a host of spelling errors.
Spurn all ye kindle.
At the end of the day, the idea of 'spending' such things still bothers me. The whole concept of a moral barter economy does not sit well with me.
"Hey, you're that new up and coming hero, right? I respect that. Here are three SOs, three DOs, and five boosts. Now get outta here. Come back when you've earned my respect!"
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heh, despite your reticence (which i can totally agree with) you can't tell me that, even with your example, Respect doesn't sounds "better" than influence ever did.. :P
and I don't see any reason why "Respecification" should need to be changed.
"I just need 50 more Res to respec!"
[edit:] but if needs be.... nothing wrong with using "retcon" instead.
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[i]....Fly me to the moon and let me play among the stars...[/i]
If you are looking for a replacement for inf why not just reputation, works for good/evil/in between........ or public opinion. I dunno =)
I reserve the right to have an opinion. You reserve the right to not agree.
Or you can use restoration for a respec on powers ??
It's an abstraction of the actual interaction, of course. It's not necessarily that the shopkeeper won't give you what you ask for until you meet some particular standard--though that's one way to roleplay it. They may not be able to provide it, no matter how much they like/fear you, unless your reputation is formidable enough to persuade other people as well.
A possible scenario:
[i]Say that the magic-wielding hero Invictus believes that examining a particular artifact--say, an earring that once belonged to an immortal--would yield new insight into his powers, enabling him to use his magic more effectively. Invictus knows that a certain dealer in rarities recently had the artifact, so he goes to see them. The merchant knows Invictus by reputation and gets a bit of a thrill from helping heroes (not to mention the advertising value of having Invictus for a customer), and so would be happy to allow Invictus to examine the artifact...but it was sold to a private collector last week. The collector generally does not display their collection.[/i]
[i]The merchant contacts the collector to try to arrange a viewing and drops Invictus' name. If Invictus has enough of a reputation, the collector might bend their usual rule and allow Invictus to examine the artifact.[/i]
So, some things might require a bigger reputation, not because you need to impress the person you're dealing with directly, but because you're allowing them to trade on your reputation to get things done. (And, of course, dropping your name or otherwise invoking your reputation becomes less effective if people do it all the time.)
Conversely, when you "sell" something to increase your rep, you're not necessarily selling a material thing. You may be providing information about where something can be found, or insight into how it works, or just the knowledge that someone is using it. These actions increase your reputation as someone who is in the know and incline the people your dealer is networking with to be helpful.
This perspective also works with "favor" in several different senses, as I suggested earlier (and which I still prefer, as it seems more flexible to me). It doesn't work so well with "ingenuity", though.
[color=#c95f02][b][size=15][font=Palatino Linotype] What about using some variant of the word "Influx" as currency?
It starts with Inf as you wanted and several of it's definitions (esp # 2 & 3) seem relevant.
[/color][/b][/size][/font]
[color=#c95f02][b][size=15][font=Palatino Linotype]1. n. - The act of flowing in; as, an influx of light.
2. n. - A coming in; infusion; importation in abundance; also, that which flows or comes in; as, a great influx of goods into a country, or an influx of gold and silver.
3. n. - Influence; power.
4. n. - (Physical Geography) the mouth of a stream or river
[/color][/b][/size][/font]
[color=#c95f02][b][size=15][font=Palatino Linotype][Late Latin] influxus, from Latin, past participle of influere, to flow in; see influence.
[/color][/b][/size][/font]
[url=http://is.gd/eKyXJL] What every Costume Creator needs...[/url] [url=http://is.gd/SKGeJQ]V2[/url] [url=http://is.gd/7XV1Qm]V3[/url]
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honestly, at that point it might as well just be cash...
I mean... What is Influx (or Ingenuity for that matter?) it has no meaning.. it's rupee, or pound, or dollar... it's nothing but currency, then....
...might as well call it that.
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[i]....Fly me to the moon and let me play among the stars...[/i]
The Sims had § Simoleons :)
[img]http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120706081830/sims/images/3/32/Gold_simoleon.png[/img]
[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fictional_currencies]List of Fictinal Currecies[/url]
Credit comes up ALLOT. ;)
So Titoleons ?!?!?!?
MCU
Modern Currency Unit
Could go Modern Unit of Currency but don't want to MUC this discussion up too much
The Phoenix Rising Initiative Rules Lawyer
[img]http://i.imgur.com/AFASCD9.png[/img]
;D
Tightwads.
No FAIR.. they Stole my Butt Slider Idea >:(
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtPdobUT-_o
how about calling the currency INFLUX? since its also starts with the "inf" just like the coh/v/going rogue currency. Influx also got that quanitity vibe.
welll....
honestly, at that point it might as well just be cash...
I mean... What is Influx? (or Ingenuity for that matter?) it has no real meaning, as anything more than currency.. it's rupee, or pound, or dollar... it's nothing but "the word for currency", at that point....
...might as well call it cash... or gold, or gil, or whatever else.
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[i]....Fly me to the moon and let me play among the stars...[/i]
Oh guys, just stop with those money/dollars/funds thing. Costumed heroes don't go around with any kind of dollars or funds thingy.
Maybe villains do (still not all of them, Doomsday doesn't have money on pants). That's why INFluence was chosen, superheroes exchange their life-risking actions with favors from peoples who care, who know they're saving them and have all the interests on giving them equip etc. to improve them and help them. Obviously the same happens with villains but for respect/fear of them etc..
Those "funds" suggestions are imho just spam from peoples not understanding the concept of superhero at all. "Reputation" imho is the best suggestion in this topic, I don't like ingenuity either because I don't get how that word is linked to exchanging favors/respect with equip etc. "Reputation" is unfortuantely also a very used word for such "credits without money" in mmorpgs.
I think this task is very difficult and require us all to concentrate on usable words at least (don't get away from the concept of superhero) to finally get that genius word that now is missing imho.
UPDATE: Sry for doubleposting.
Re-reading my own comment after some time, I just noticed I used "Respect" to explain Influence and reputation but "res" is overused on mmorpgs.
What about adding "Value" at the end like: [i][b]Respect Value = "RV"[/b][/i] , or Reputation Value = "RV"
I already imagine some tutorial explaining it [i]"You must earn your respect to make so others value your actions and give you some help and some decent equipment"[/i] etc. which makes sense for both heroes and villains.
ThunderCAP you can edit your own posts if you wan to. To the left of the 'reply' and 'Quote' buttons at the bottom on your post it will say 'edit'.
Don't know why Quote and Top has a capital first letters but edit and reply do not?
The Phoenix Rising Initiative Rules Lawyer
So, to summarize, we don't like the con names or ingenuity :p
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[color=red]PR, Forum Moderator[/color]
[url=http://cityoftitans.com/forum/desvipers-creative-impulsivity]My Non-Canon Backstories[/url]
Avatar by MikeNovember
[img]http://i.imgur.com/5SZSIhF.png[/img]
The Level text, Type, Threat, and background (Radial gradient) colors change
All these elements change to the appropriate color for a con lvl threat type.
Soo, if you're lvl 35 and SuperVillan is lvl 35 then we use 7th color (PINK)
if you're lvl 35 and SuperVillan is lvl 34 (-1 to you) then we use 6th color (RED).
etc...
ex: Con lvl. Super Villain
[img]http://i.imgur.com/6QhIu0i.png[/img]
(-2) 1st star for Swarmling. (swarm)
(-1) 2nd star for Critter. (rikti monkeys)
(+0) 3rd Star for Mob. (Minion)
(+1) 4th Star for Under Boss. (Lieutenant)
(+2) 5th Star for Boss.
(+3) 6th Star for Over Lord. ;) (Elite Boss)
(+4) 7th Star for Super Villain/Hero. (ArchVillain)
(+5) 8th star for Monsteur. ;) (Monster)
(+6) 9th star for Titan. a bad ass. ;)
Can you elaborate, Desviper? :P
5 OClock Shadow
"The Five", "Old Scruff", "Wolfbrand", "Tashomono"
Your shaving days are numbered...
Ingenuity= Influx? Infundata/infundatum? Infranatio/Infranat (Means below the nation in Latin, as in: Money holds this place up)?
Swarmling=Spawn
Monster Boss= Grue?
EPIC MONSTER BOSS= Zeus (Because it's city of Titans)
Plot= Adventure?
The largest topics on this post are complaints/suggestions about the con system (Critter to Epic Monster Boss) and complaints/suggestions about the in-game currency name, Ingenuity.
Just calling the two most common topics on this thread :p
[hr]
[color=red]PR, Forum Moderator[/color]
[url=http://cityoftitans.com/forum/desvipers-creative-impulsivity]My Non-Canon Backstories[/url]
Avatar by MikeNovember
It's a new game so they are creating fun and new terms for the everyday names that are used a million times I think they are decent but even they said they are not set in stone let's try and keep an open mind I'm sure they have thought about it and decided to try something new I like them personally but majority vote always wins in the end
Plus it's only logical they went with Rae's it's even in a song cause after do comes Rae a golden drop of sun !! Golden sun golden coin ? Coincidence or a plot from the Von traps to take over the world ???!?!
Yeah, I was being facetious.
5 OClock Shadow
"The Five", "Old Scruff", "Wolfbrand", "Tashomono"
Your shaving days are numbered...
It doesn't travel well through the interwebs :p
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[url=http://cityoftitans.com/forum/desvipers-creative-impulsivity]My Non-Canon Backstories[/url]
Avatar by MikeNovember
...I quess my first question is if "Ingenuity" is supposed to represent actual funds that a character uses in the world, or if it represents how much reputation that a character has to request favors in the form of material goods. given the way its written, I would go with [b]Reputation[/b]....but if it's meant to actually be some form of hard currency that the characters carry and use to buy things then why not something along the lines of the following: [b]Sway[/b], [b]Esteem[/b] or [b]Prevalence[/b]
all three are in the same realm as Influence, as it was used, and carry the same idea behind them.
just a quick thought. :)
[img]http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/whiteperegrine/84183/69278/69278_original.gif[/img]
Would you consider an influence synonym instead of ingenuity? http://thesaurus.com/browse/influence. From the list I Iike: clout, money, prestige (used by DC Universe), reputation, connections, credit, esteem, juice "just because", prominence, sway. Not on the list but my personal favorite is Karma (Once used by Classic Marvel RPG)
If we're going with something "influence-esque" .... I definitely prefer Respect or Reputation to anything else that's been suggested, so far.
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[i]....Fly me to the moon and let me play among the stars...[/i]
I vote for reputation
not my video just one I lke ===> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6-SdIN0hsM
[CENTER][URL=http://www.nodiatis.com/personality.htm][IMG]http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/24.jpg[/IMG][/URL][/CENTER]
Ingenuity means cleverness or resourcefulness, thus I interpret ingenuity to indicate a character's capacity to obtain the medium of exchange they need or desire. This can take the form of influence, prestige, reputation, or money. This would make it a variation on the more generic 'credit'.
ETA: Ingenuity can also be considered a factor in how well a character is able to use their powers/abilities to do an honest day's work (or even in their secret identity).
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I vote for Self Damage when trying to Swat away Swarmlings. ;)
[img]http://i.imgur.com/Xl2ObKX.png[/img]
I would be REALLY hard-pressed to ever call "doing an honest days work" as "ingenious"
Ingenuity is about creativity and cleverness.... which is why so many have expressed a feeling like having the currency in Titans being called Ingenuity comes across as "tricking" shop owners and contacts out of merchandise...
A better term might be "Resources" (generic, I know).... Because Resource has a more layered meaning... as it could imply "Resourcefulness" (which encompasses anything "Ingenuity" could imply) as well as physcial Resources, like trustfunds, minimum wage paychecks, cash from a bank job, personal contacts in the hero/villain community, labor trades, or anything else a player might imagine their character's Resources may be.
I still think other terms are better, but if we're going for something with a similar meaning to Ingenuity or Influence... Resources seems more fitting than either.
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[i]....Fly me to the moon and let me play among the stars...[/i]
Whatever they call it it will be just like money in real life easily spent cause these superhero landlords are tough if you don't pay that rent
No, it is a value to mathematically translate the exchange of favors/respect, more actions you do, more respect you gain and more favors you receive = equip etc.. Influence was a way to balance that, more than a money. The name is important to stay on topic and it's not "just money", not for this superhero genre; one thing is if your character carries an high amount of respect/reputation (always possible and for all kind of chars), another if he carries montains of gold bars on its costume/body.
The problem is even more visible if we think about monster-like heroes or villains, which don't have bank accounts nor they care for money usually, but respect? That's a thing you earn and lose anyway.
Can't Bruce Wayne and tony stark just support us all ! :-)
Precisely. As I've said, as much as people might bemoan that terms like 'resources' or 'credits' are generic, that is also their advantage. They can mean whatever the player wants them to mean. That way I can imagine that my character pays for his purchases with the good, old cash or plastic option, thus freeing me from the need to wonder how exactly the store owner feeds his family by 'respecting' my character.
And yes, any non-generic suggestion can be presented in such a way that it makes a hero look like a complete heel or even a villain.
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The money is just not taken into consideration, that's for normal things of normal life. Does your character eats? Do you see him going to dinner or sleep into the game?
No (at least not in City of Heroes or other similar games out there now), he spends its secret identity money on secret identity life (if he has one, or just on normal things). We're special, if the special equip was for normal means (money) it would also be for normal people, anyone would be super already or go to your same npc and buy a laser-pistol or speed-boost.
But when you need a new "Adamantium/Vibranium-Shield" (like Cap.America sometime did) he doesn't buy it, it's Tony Stark who builds one for him freely, it's Thor who adjust it in Asgard, it's TheShield govern.force which gifts that to him because he is... respected. We don't care how Tony Stark's secret identity takes the money (from secret identity sources) or how the government finds the resources to make such a gift. Cap.America will save them from Loki or Galactus next time, the world is in danger, so no... they don't ask him money to equip him at the possible best, they don't ask money to boost its super soldier serum etc..
Instead the New Warriors are not respected at all, they just go around with the little things they already have, meeting in a garage. They not just lack money from secret identities but they lack respect, nobody will give them any equip or any base etc. because they didn't save the world enough times yet.
I expect here to talk with comics-readers at least, how is it so difficult to grasp that concept and you always fall down to golds and silvers like some bunch of fantasy-mmorpg-only-players. ^^
I understand City of Titans is not expected to be identical to City of Heroes but this is still a superhero-mmo, not Everquest. By the way, "resources" is definitely physical, you automatically imagine exchanging goods or money with it, so fake that we actually could think about something else while playing is just lying to ourselves imho.
Here's a summary of my current feelings on these matters.
Whatever term we use for in-game currency should not imply physical resources, but non-material importance. I like "Clout" best, but "Sway" or "Prestige" work as well.
I'm definitely siding on the use of letter codes for NPC grade. Letter codes are perfect for both lawful and criminal flavored NPCs and monsters. My favorite is "E" for swarmling, "D" for critter, "C" for mob, "B" for experienced, "A" for boss, "A+" for named boss, "AA" for epic boss, "AAA" for monster boss, "AAA+" for epic monster boss. Based on the American letter grade system, with some influence from bond ratings. I think most players will quickly grok this.
The con system has to be independent of NPC grade. I like the CoH color system, or some similar variant. From low risk to high risk: [color=#bfbfbf]Gray[/color] -> [color=#0000bf]Indigo[/color] -> [color=#00dfdf]Cyan[/color] -> [color=#00df00]Green[/color] -> [color=#ffff00]Yellow[/color] -> [color=#ffbf00]Orange[/color] -> [color=#df0000]Red[/color] -> [color=#df00bf]Magenta[/color]. With Green being the same-level risk.
The UI also needs a way to display aggro status. Some way to display these states: "will not attack me" vs "will attack me if I attack first" vs "will attack me if I get too close" vs "is currently in combat with me". Many games use color for that ([color=#00df00]Green[/color] vs [color=#ffff00]Yellow[/color] vs [color=#ffbf00]Orange[/color] vs [color=#df0000]Red[/color]?), but we have to be careful to distinguish this color from the con color. I'll let the UI experts figure out how to use both colors at the same time in a non-confusing way (for example, color the NPC name and level nameplate text in the con color, and the nameplate background/border in the aggro state).
(By the way, while it should go without saying, I will say I very much appreciate how friendly this conversation has been, despite the diversity of opinions. Thanks, all.)
Edit: added color.
[size=1]Kickstart Backer # 771[/size]
Honestly, I think we are worrying way too much over what to call the currency in the game. As long as it is something other than "cash" or "money", much like Inf from CoH it should be fine.
I think what to call the ranks of enemies is a far more important. They need to be alignment neutral, easy to recognize, fairly self explanatory, and free of any IP issues. Personally, I like the letter/number threat rating idea the best, leaning more heavily towards ascending numbers. It fits all four of these criteria perfectly.
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The Titan Legacy - Defender of the Inner Flame
Most comicbook universes use a number scale for threat rating. Its nearly universal 5 point scale for marvel most universes uses the 10 point scale. The advantage for numbers is that you can always expand if the game grows to titanic proportions.
As for Ingenuity try a more generalized credit, you got street credit, political credit, monetary credit, public credit.
Of course Titaniums is derivative from the periodic table of elements and thus not copy writable..
[CENTER][URL=http://www.nodiatis.com/personality.htm][IMG]http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/18.jpg[/IMG][/URL][/CENTER]
[URL=http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-knhgv6lgbrs/UA_riCKAHNI/AAAAAAAATxE/u-sgh23bZhc/s640/wonder_women_by_penichet-d47up0l.jpg [/IMG][/URL]
Yea I like it simple too. 1 to whatever..
Marvel seems to use 1 to 10 approach
[img]http://i.imgur.com/Bjll1Py.png[/img]
DC seems to use 1 to 100 approach
[img]http://i.imgur.com/k6GVXaZ.png[/img]
Re:pleonast's comment about aggro....
what about similar symbols to the classic pet command symbols (and use them again, when we get controllable pets ;P)
so...
sword= aggressive (attack if your close)
shield =defensive (attack if you attack it or its companions... or its companion/s begin attacking you)
circle-with-slash= passive (won't attack unless you engage (grey con))
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[i]....Fly me to the moon and let me play among the stars...[/i]
With a good design, they won't need to expand. At the weaker limit, I can't imagine creatures with less than 1 hit point. At the stronger limit, the "monster boss" rank is defined to require a whole zone's worth of supers to take down. And there's already a rank [u]stronger[/u] than that! We don't need any more NPC ranks than what's defined.
Note that within a NPC grade, there can be variation in power based on its level and any other mechanisms they give a particular NPC.
I like using letters to signify the NPC rank, because we'll already have a number for the NPC's level. Two numbers is less clean and more confusing. So instead of calling a standard level-15 boss a "5-15", we can call it a "15A", or more verbosely, a "Level-15, Rank-A" opponent.
I like the elegance of having opponents from "1E" up to "50AAA+", with a letter code and level number.
Those are stat numbers, not ranks of opponents.
[size=1]Kickstart Backer # 771[/size]
[color=#c95f02][b][size=15][font=Palatino Linotype] **experiences deja vu**
Good idea Shadowclipse... http://cityoftitans.com/comment/63291#comment-63291
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[color=#c95f02][b][size=15][font=Palatino Linotype] Ghosthack that is some impressive self-refuting nonsense.
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[color=#c95f02][b][size=15][font=Palatino Linotype] Which is why the villain currency was called "Infamy" or famous for being bad however it ignores the idea that not all heroes (or villains) want to be famous or in the spotlight. Many have things to hide or too much to lose if their real identity is discovered. Increasing your "fame" is not a good thing if you are trying to do good works (or evil) from the shadows unnoticed. That is why I put forth "Influx" above as a suggestion. It has none of those direct connotations yet is similar enough to what we were used to... it also starts with inf. :-)
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[color=#c95f02][b][size=15][font=Palatino Linotype] Except that people tend to shorten the names and Potential abbreviates to "Pot" sadly.
Not even as a joke would I want to ask how much Pot someone has before I sell/trade them an item.
Decent idea, unfortunate abbreviation.
[/color][/b][/size][/font]
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I still like my suggestion on the money name issue: Recognition/Recognizance.
It's a term that works similarly to many other suggested terms for being a nebulous catch-all way to create a non-monetary resource.
The original Lady of Ysgard. -Virtue
[img]http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2010/203/c/5/Updated_Homage_by_Voldine.jpg[/img]
That's as close an example i could find, trying not to look to Other games.. but just comics.
I Dont really want to do maths for such things like AAA+++ or to try and memorize anything resembling an elements table. :<
[img]http://i.imgur.com/XPq8Owd.png[/img]
but Iz... you were fine with memorizing a list of titles with little more than a vague subjective relationship?
it's hardly math or rote memory....
...or, to be more accurate, it shouldn't be any NEW memorizing, as most if not all players of this game will already have the necessary information memorized.
That is to say, you know the english alphabet and what the "+" symbol means, already..... but you would NEED to memorize the current terminological system in place (like your periodic table example)
the only thing I would say against Pleocast's specific example is the "A, A+, AA, AAA, AAA+" part. That specific part becomes confusing and cumbersome (when compared to the core concept of the system)
that's why I suggested the "S" concept from other videogames so there's a clear distinction. a fraction of potential "memorization" but significantly less confusion.
basically:
F, E, D, C, B, A, S, SS, SSS
where the transition from A to S is a functional dividing line between "solo" content, and "team" content
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[i]....Fly me to the moon and let me play among the stars...[/i]
I agree in principle with everything you say here. I just want to point out that red-green colorblindness is not uncommon, and has been known to cause people to have issues with games before. Sure, it's a minority of players, but why not avoid the problem in the planning stages? Substituting white for green in your examples would probably be sufficient, and it would be consistent with a familiar model in MMOs.
That aside, I also like the suggestions for a number/letter system to mark mob categories. It dodges alignment-specific labels, and it's extensible. At first blush, I favored numerical ratings for flavor reasons, but after some thought, I'm starting to see more potential flexibility of letter ratings.
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