Hey, folks, here's a place to talk about words, with words. But don't talk about the words you're using to talk about words with. That'll just get confusing. Next thing you know, you're in a 7th dimensional prison cell with some guy with a 90 day sentence swearing he'll get that McGurk fellow.
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[color=#ff0000]Project Lead[/color]
Well, my first question should be, what words will we be talking about? I cant seem to find the announcement we're discussing...
Ahh, [url=https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/missingworldsmedia/the-phoenix-project-city-of-titans/posts/889419]there[/url] it is, over on the KS pages! *heads off to read*
Foradain, Mage of Phoenix Rising.
[url=https://cityoftitans.com/forum/foradains-character-conclave]Foradain's Character Conclave[/url]
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Avatar courtesy of [s]Satellite9[/s] [url=https://www.instagram.com/irezoomie/]Irezoomie[/url]
Got to get the reaction post up before I can publish! We're going to have the front page version of this up in a bit.
[color=#ff0000]Project Lead[/color]
Epic Monster Boss = Stay Puft Marshmellow Man. "The most harmless thing, something that could never destroy us".
Not sure I like "Ingenuity". If only "Credit" weren't so overused...Perhaps an acronym? "Intangible Nonspecific Funds"?
Foradain, Mage of Phoenix Rising.
[url=https://cityoftitans.com/forum/foradains-character-conclave]Foradain's Character Conclave[/url]
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Avatar courtesy of [s]Satellite9[/s] [url=https://www.instagram.com/irezoomie/]Irezoomie[/url]
Other than being a kickstarter supporter, I've nothing to do with the creation of this game.
And yet -
wait for it..
I TOTALLY APPROVE OF THIS MESSAGE!
I especially like the delivery of the message. A little bit of humor with just the right amount of corn. A good way for me to start the day!
Those who have no idea what they are doing have no idea that they don't know what they are doing. - John Cleese
I demand that the next number we rename be named after me. It shall be a thousand Raellions, and we shall call it... the Billion!
...waitaminute, I didn't think this through...
[hr]
If I disagree with you, rest assured, it's almost certainly not personal. I probably just want to make sure that your idea is rock-solid.
Remember, most of the people in here want the same thing in the end; a game we'll all be proud to call Home.
Okay, so boosts are the inspiration equivalent, now, rather than the enhancement equivalent. No word yet for the CoT enhancements?
Ingenuity. If that sticks I'll vote to abbreviate it to 'gen'. "One hundred raellion gen" rolls off the tongue more easily than "one hundred raellion ing". (Also, 'Ing' is the German abbreviation for engineer. 'cause I'm sure that's going to be totally confusing.)
For 'inf' candidates my preferences are infallible, infeoff[color=red]*[/color], and infusion. On the whole, however, I'd rather go with ingenuity.
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[color=red]*[/color] I know, right?
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[font=Pristina][size=18][b]Hail Beard![/b][/size][/font]
Support [url=http://cityoftitans.com/comment/52149#comment-52149]trap clowns[/url] for CoT!
Im seeing Timmy Simian as a power suppresion type NPC. When he is within 10m of your character, travel powers do not work and he constantly pesters you for autographs. It could get quite amusing, and frustrating, watching players kite him around pheonix plaza hoping another player pulls agro.
For wanting a credit that starts with INF, is there a reason you just don't use "INFluence"? Influence is, in reality, a very powerful resource. It would make sense.
I will say "Experienced" is an odd choice for what most players call an "Elite" mob. Why not just use that widely accepted term?
"Monster Boss" doesn't quite convey the nature of the enemy. It's not like the other bosses won't be monsters, so why not something like "Roaming" or "Nomad" to convey that they run around?
And as for the Swarmlings, not a bad name. In DnD and such they're referred to as minions: 1hp enemies that are there just to hurt you a little, divert your attention, and generally cause an annoyance. Not saying this should be changed, but just putting out my first thought I had.
Those were the only ones that stood out to me after a couple reads.
Sorry, that's a whole update in and of itself. (They're designed, but not balanced right now.)
As far as why not Influence, there's a pretty good reason why we're not using Influence, Infamy, or Information. It's the same reason we're not using Minion, Lieutenant, or Archvillian.
(Besides, calling a beat cop a Minion never sat right with me.)
[color=#ff0000]Project Lead[/color]
Admittedly I've not been keeping on top of CoT discussions, so don't know if this has been addressed before, but:
"Launch [snip] This is the point at which free subscription months will kick in."
Will there be a way to pause this? Just thinking that if someone has hardware issues or RL commitments and can't play when the game goes live it'd be bad if their free sub months still kick in automagically.
By my mohawk shall ye know me
Me likey. But then I'm a sucker for acronyms.
By my mohawk shall ye know me
Good question, to be answered when we get closer to Launch. Legit concern, though.
The point being, if we have subscriptions for a magazine like Star Citizen, or a fan club, or anything else, it's not going to trigger those 'free months'. No bait and switch.
[color=#ff0000]Project Lead[/color]
Why is it always Mole Men and not Gopher Men or Prairie Dog Men?
SEZ
Tatter
Or why not Little Known And Exceedingly Rare Burrowing Rhinoceros Men?
And why always men?
Ingenuity!
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[font=Pristina][size=18][b]Hail Beard![/b][/size][/font]
Support [url=http://cityoftitans.com/comment/52149#comment-52149]trap clowns[/url] for CoT!
Errr.. i'l be honest. I dont really know if Stars is believable enough for me. I could even accept Creds more than Stars. :p
ex: [img]http://wiki.worldoftanks.com/images/thumb/4/49/GoldEconIcon.png/100px-GoldEconIcon.png[/img]
But make it a T with a C somewhere in the back or overlapping or something nice. :)
maybe have the T INSIDE the C... like the OCP symbol?
ex: [img]http://i.imgur.com/3MPZMbc.png[/img]
And for the LOVE OF GOD, dont do what Champoins did... 3 separate Coin types gold, silver, bronze? and Zen or whatever they are called. Its not terrible, but I hated it when i 1st saw it. Confused the heck out of me. Stick to just one i say. :)
I can't say I care for "Ingenuity" as a currency name. It's trying too hard to look like CoH currency, I think, and it seems to me that it would clash with a lot of character concepts. (Say, a none-too-bright brick having lots of "ingenuity".) I'd rather have something different that still fits the basic idea. Maybe "Favor"? People favor your character, or owe them favors, or are trying to curry favor, depending on the flavor of your character?
I'm not wild about the mob rank names, either:
I like the idea of "Swarmling", but it's a little awkward--I'd just label such a mob "Swarm", and let the "Part of a..." be implicit.
"Mob" is a standard term, but...you don't like calling a cop a "minion", but calling them "mob" is okay? (I don't have a better alternative to offer for this rank, I'm just dubious about it.)
"Experienced" is also awkward (though better than "lieutenant"); I think [b]Xeo[/b]'s suggestion of just calling them "Elite" is a good one.
"Boss" is fine, and almost inevitable, anyway.
"Epic Boss" is lacking in epicness, somehow.
"Monster" is probably fine.
"Epic Monster" is lacking, again. Maybe rank them as Omegas?
Or you could just ditch the naming convention and go with an icon system--multiple dots for swarm mobs, single dots for regular mobs, dot-with-chevron for elites, dot-with-crown for bosses, large dot-with-crown flanked by smaller dots for group bosses, a skull for monsters, and an omega symbol for omegas. Let the community evolve unofficial nomenclature for the ranks as needed.
This was my favorite update so far. Ingenuity is ok with me. But please for all that is holy lets not call Trials or Task Force stuff Quests!! Way too midevial and fantasy sounding.
How about Insperity? Kind of a cross between Influence and Prosperity.
Those TFs will only be quests if they involve one or more princesses and dragons.
We are still waiting upon confirmation for plumbers[color=red]*[/color] and trolls.
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[color=red]*[/color] What a plumber might look like:
[img]http://cdn.architecturelab.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/townsend-smart-1_525.jpg[/img]
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[font=Pristina][size=18][b]Hail Beard![/b][/size][/font]
Support [url=http://cityoftitans.com/comment/52149#comment-52149]trap clowns[/url] for CoT!
This has to be the winner. Make it so.
Also, my comments on enemy grade:
[b]Swarmling[/b]: good.
[b]Critter[/b]: good.
Mob: way too generic. A "mob" is any mobile entity. How about [b]Mook[/b]? Or maybe [b]Flunky[/b] or [b]Peon[/b]?
Experienced: [u]fail![/u] This is not a noun. How about [b]Accomplice[/b]?
[b]Boss[/b]: good enough.
Named Boss: I'm not feeling any love here, but simply a slapped-on descriptor. Let's show some creativity. I like [b]Chief[/b] or [b]Captain[/b] or [b]Don[/b].
Epic Boss: "epic" is overused. And I don't like the conflation of "epic" with "lots of players". Instead, I suggest [b]Tsar[/b] or [b]Kingpin[/b].
Monster Boss: just use [b]Monster[/b]. Or maybe [b]Monstrosity[/b].
Epic Monster Boss: again, show some creativity. I like [b]Leviathan[/b] or [b]Behemoth[/b].
[size=1]Kickstart Backer # 771[/size]
"Elite" sounds too hard. In many games, a single player cannot generally win against an Elite creature. That's more at the "Epic Boss" grade.
[size=1]Kickstart Backer # 771[/size]
Named Boss is actually a reference to the place D&D got the 'minion' from, my favorite RPG, Feng Shui, the game of Hong Kong action.
If someone's got a _name_, they're clearly important and a much tougher fight than nameless mooks you get to stomp.
And yes, I think Elite's way tougher than the 'one step higher than mobile object'
[color=#ff0000]Project Lead[/color]
Mook, Flunky, and Peon would have the same issue minnion has. Don't forget the names are going to both the light and the dark factions of CoT. as generic as mob is, it does not have any connotations with it.
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I never set anything on fire accidentally!
The Titan Legacy - Defender of the Inner Flame
Edit: I just noticed the character section was referring to Specifications, and not Classifications. Thanks for correcting me, guys. Pshh. Carry on!
I have to disagree about the mob name, I think they nailed all the names.
However, I still think the Classifications need tweaking. They don't quite capture the class imo. Man, CoX really took the good words, didn't they?
Here are my suggestions:
Melee/Protection: Striker
Protection/Melee: Guardian
Ranged/Support: Projector
Support/Ranged:Enhancer
Control/Support : Shaper
-or-
Melee/Protection: Striker
Protection/Melee: Bulwark
Ranged/Support: Projector
Support/Ranged:Guardian
Control/Support : Shaper
Reasons:
Gladiator: Melee/Protection - Scrapper applied to all kinds of melee fighters. So does Gladiator I guess, but I will always think of "Gladiator" as prisoners forced to fight each other for blood sport in an arena. I think we can find a better name that closer resembles Scrapper. .
Suggestion: Striker - I think Striker actually fits better for the class than for the ranged class. After all, that's what they call fighters who mainly punch/kick as opposed to grappling in the UFC. I don't know, maybe it's the fact it starts with an "S".
Bulwark: Protection/Melee - Great name and could work, but Bulwark is a less common word. I think Bulwark is a great name to keep for the specialization under this class.
Suggestion: Guardian - You are guarding your team. Guardians in movies, games and stories are usually defensive/melee beasts guarding some sort of object or king--not really characters who heal, buff or debuff.
Striker: Ranged/Support - I think it technically works, but it could also work for the Gladiator class. Blaster sounded just like it was, you Blasted crap.
Suggestion: Projector - As in Energy Projection. Not as big of a punch as Striker or Blaster, but I had to suggest something more specific to ranged combat.
Guardian: Support/Ranged - Great name, but it could work for Bulwark class too. I even thought Defender could be a Tanker. They really aren't defending per se, but either enhancing or diminishing another's stats, making them more effective. Perhaps something closer to Buffing/Debuffing.
Suggestion: Enhancer, Augmenter - again, not that great of a punch *shrug
Tactician: Control/Support - Hmm, most characters could be a Tactician. That just means they use strategy to over come a battle. Of course we can twist certain words to make it fit in most instances, but I think a Tactician is rather specific to a set of skills, not the fact that they have control over certain energy or objects.
Suggestion: Shaper - I think this covers someone being able to move and control energies and objects to their liking.
Honestly, I could live with what I saw last:
Melee/Protection: Enforcer
Protection/Melee: Stalwart
Ranged/Support: Ranger
Support/Ranged: Guardian
Control/Support : Commander
5 OClock Shadow
"The Five", "Old Scruff", "Wolfbrand", "Tashomono"
Your shaving days are numbered...
Great update. My thoughts:
1. I don't like "Mob" because A) it evokes thoughts of "The Mob" i.e. organized crime and B) it implies a plurality of people, as in "an angry mob overran the outnumbered riot cops and stormed the City Hall building...". The only alternative I can come up with off the top of my head is "soldier" EDIT: "trooper" or "recruit" maybe?
2. I also don't like "experienced" and would prefer "sub-boss" or "corporal" or "sergeant" EDIT: Or "deputy"
3. What will the Enhancements be called? I suggest "Modifiers" or "power-ups" or "empowerments"
4. If you can't call the money "Influence" I'd call it something punchy and brief, like "bucks" or "clout" or "pull" or "fluence"
R.S.O. of Phoenix Rising
In general, me likey. I think some terms that don't resonate right away will grow more attractive as we get used to them. I especially like Raellion. :-)
Oh great, now I have the Dr Tyche song repeating in my head...
Yeah, this explanation for INF definitely gets my vote.
I don't think Darth (correct me if I'm wrong) was asking for an update on the status of CoT's version of enhancements ("no word [i][b]on[/b][/i] enhancements") but was simply curious what the term for CoT's version of enhancements will be ("no word [i][b]for[/b][/i] enhancements") and why the term was not in this list.
I definitely loved the explanation of the term "quest" (plumbers and/or trolls notwithstanding). For me, the fact that CoX didn't use the WoW terms for things was a reminder that our game was different from the run-of-the-mill MMO. Long may that tradition continue!
Do Plot, Story, and Arc correspond to Mission, Arc, and TF, or are these 3 terms for standard content, indicating we have a new "level" of standard content grouping?
Blimp, Trainer, and Player Nexus definitions were interesting glimpses into game design decisions. Good stuff!
Did anyone else suddenly get a craving for Indian food?
Spurn all ye kindle.
That would've been difficult in any case, since CoH came out before WoW. It was Everquest terms that CoH was avoiding, and WoW was cloning.
[size=1]Kickstart Backer # 771[/size]
Seriously, it's a whole thing. It retains the flavor of the old style while being fairly... different. So if I were to tell you the three different words, well... they'd make no sense without context.
I could leak the internal development name of them was 'Materia', but they've changed a lot since then.
Plot and Story do have analogies to the old game.
[color=#ff0000]Project Lead[/color]
I don't really like Ingenuity either. How about Fame? I want to be Famous! You could use Infamy for the bad guys (keeping the INF thing for them) I guess heroes would have Inter-National Fame (INF)! ;)
Phoenix Rising's Model Citizen
I would opt for the word "prestige" instead of "ingenuity." I think it better describes the character's interaction with the culture.
I was going to suggest Prestige, but it was the Super Group currency. Not sure if that effects anything. I like "Reputation". It works for all shades of grey.
5 OClock Shadow
"The Five", "Old Scruff", "Wolfbrand", "Tashomono"
Your shaving days are numbered...
Nina!
What about "clout"? But I would like Prestige for heroes and Notoriety for villains.
For money what about:
- Impact (Imp) - although could interfere with having Imp (demon) enemies/pets?
- Reputation (Rep)
Both work for Heroes and Villains and everything in-between.
Supers can have a massive Impact on those around them and the world (a good or bad impact :)).
A Supers reputation (either good for positive Supers or bad for negative supers) also represent how well they are doing :). A good Super with a Bad Rep is not doing very well.
As for the enemy rank names Im also not too fond of 'Mob' as a standard enemy. Other words for Mob are - clan, crowd, swarm, horde, mass, etc - all of which are large groups of things. We have chosen Swarmlings (single) for them (which I like :)).
A standard enemy could go with:
- Soldier (as suggested above)
- Conventional ("Ok people up ahead we have 2 Bosses and 5 Conventionals. Bulwark you go in and ...")
- Employee/Staff (I kid I kid...)
Experienced
- Veteran ("One boss, 2 Vets and a Swarm")
- Expert
Classes - No Ranged DPS/Defence at launch....? :_( sob.
I like Gladiator though, even with the mental imagery of the fighting pits as there were Gladiators using 1 weapon, 2 weapons, 1 large weapon, weapon and shield, weapon and net, no armour (dodge!), light armour, heavy armour, etc
World:
"District: It’s like a zone, only… bigger" - I think you mean Neighbourhood instead of zone :)
The Phoenix Rising Initiative Rules Lawyer
Will we be able to pick a tertiary power that's the same powerset as either our primary or secondary powerset? Like for example could my ranger with a burning primary pick a ranged cold teriary powerset? Or could my enforcer pick defense as his tertiary to shore up his defences?
not my video just one I lke ===> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6-SdIN0hsM
[CENTER][URL=http://www.nodiatis.com/personality.htm][IMG]http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/24.jpg[/IMG][/URL][/CENTER]
For what my opinion is worth, I'm not really feeling "ingenuity". Its not a word that imposes any kind of materialistic value. What's wrong with just using "credits" anyways? Why do games always feel they have to invent a new term for currency? I mean, when you use a different term then you suddenly have to come up with this huge explanation as to why it's called "x" instead of "y".
Currently trapped inside the Speed Force...
Well if we're going by CoX terms, inf was never meant to represent actual money, it represented your resources and you're reputation. It was made that way so that you can say you're getting stuff any way you want, you could say that you intimidated the shopkeeper into giving you the stuff, or pulled some strings with your mass network of contacts to get the stuff for free, or if you're rping the kind of character that can afford that kind of stuff, buying it with your own money. That's the thing I liked about the fluff of CoX. The "currency" you got was as metaphorical or as physical s you wanted, meaning that if you wanted to play a true paragon of heroism rather than one who pushes people down and steals their wallet or demands to be paid immediately after doing any acts of heroism you could. Same thing with inspirations those weren't potions you we're eating those where exactly what they said on the tin, you weren't taking anything you where gaining more willpower to turn the tide of battle.
not my video just one I lke ===> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6-SdIN0hsM
[CENTER][URL=http://www.nodiatis.com/personality.htm][IMG]http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/24.jpg[/IMG][/URL][/CENTER]
Yeah - Ingenuity doesn't really sit right with me - I view "buying" stuff in Supers games more like calling in favours from contacts and the like (the greater your reputation, the greater the favor) rather than shoveling out hard cash. So how about one of the following:
Reputation
Favour
Regard
Renown
or even a generic "Resources" or "Resourcefulness" would have a better "feel" to it than "Ingenuity" IMHO.
I was thinking of "Acclaim" and "Notoriety" but they have a positive and negative connotation respectively; I'm not sure if the "currency" is supposed to be the same across Heroes and Villains but I suspect it will be.
It's too bad we can't use the Influence/Infamy/Information angle from CoX (I kinda liked the connection to the fluff and the name dynamic) - but I understand why.
Is that a hint? ;)
And I concur about the con system, "Mob" implies many, though the "standard enemy" could easily be alone, esp. in existence of Swarmling ( a name i really don't mind) and Critters (Almost sounds smaller than Swarmling), and "Experienced" sounds much stronger than second rank, "Epic Boss" is vague, are these EBs or AVs? And finally, "Monster Boss" and "Epic Monster Boss" are analogous to Monsters and GMs?
Sorry to stick to CoH terms, they're all I know :p
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[color=red]PR, Forum Moderator[/color]
[url=http://cityoftitans.com/forum/desvipers-creative-impulsivity]My Non-Canon Backstories[/url]
Avatar by MikeNovember
So, I was looking at the list of "enemy terms" and something about it doesn't quite gel...
these terms might work in a social short-hand sense... but they don't really make sense as the official "terms" for these enemy categories. I mean, despite the low HP, i'd imagine we're still going to see everything from rats to low-rent thugs qualify as "swarmlings" or "critters"
here too... "mob" is a gamer shorthand for "mobile", and doesn't really make sense in a comic book sense. when, after all, ALL enemies are "mobs" ;P
sensible but lacking any thematic sense or character
And here, I couldn't help feeling like everyone liked "boss" and couldn't think of anything else...
[color=#FF0000]So... Here's my stab at some alternatives:[/color]
[b]Drudgers, Drones, Minions, Fodder[/b]: Has about one HP. But there sure are a lot of them.
[b]Lackeys,Flunkies[/b] (or any earlier options): Weaker than a standard enemy. Some kind of tiny imp, generally found in a pack.
[b]Underling[/b] (or an earlier one): Standard Enemy
[b]Bruiser, Heavy, Veteran, Specialist[/b]: Tougher Enemy
[b]Officer, Lieutenant, Enforcer[/b]: Tough Enemy
[b]Boss[/b] (Named): Really tough enemy, equal to one PC. On the other hand, they don’t get to use Boosts.
[b]Master Villain/hero[/b] (named): Oh, these guys are tough enough for a whole team. Good thing they’re only found in specific missions, generally. Not free-roaming. Probably.
[b]Monster[/b] (yep, just monster), [b]Terror[/b]: These guys? Free roaming. Tough enough for a zone to gang-tackle.
[b]Horror, Monstrosity, Epic Being[/b]: Yeaaaaah, uhm. Tastes like Jello.
I'm not sure if we need both hero and villain themed terms.... but I definitely think that some of these work better than the ones listed
(that said, I'm making the assumption that these terms are intended to the "category titles" like Archvillain/Hero, Elite Boss, Boss, Lieutenant / Sniper, Minion and Underling were in COX)
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[i]....Fly me to the moon and let me play among the stars...[/i]
Medic could be a good name for the support classification, or the support/ranged specification.
not my video just one I lke ===> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6-SdIN0hsM
[CENTER][URL=http://www.nodiatis.com/personality.htm][IMG]http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/24.jpg[/IMG][/URL][/CENTER]
+1 for Horror, Monstrosity, Bruiser and Specialist.
[hr]
[color=red]PR, Forum Moderator[/color]
[url=http://cityoftitans.com/forum/desvipers-creative-impulsivity]My Non-Canon Backstories[/url]
Avatar by MikeNovember
I think that 'Medic' implies too much that Healing is involved and if they are going to be like CoX Support Healorz were almost non-existent.
One of the hard parts of naming the Support classes (ranged/support and support/ranged) is that it is both Buff and DeBuff.
Debuffing the enemies Def/Regen doesnt really guard the team (yeah ok it does but indirectly by making it easier to defeat the enemy).
The Phoenix Rising Initiative Rules Lawyer
What no one said anything about HENCHMEN? for a foe name?
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Personal rules of good roleplay
1.) Nothing goes as planned.
2.) If it goes as planned it's not good RP
Thanks :D
though I think my favorite suggestion was "Drudgers".....sounds kinda like some sort of gremlins..... but it literally means "A person who does tedious, menial, or unpleasant work." and can also mean servant or slave...
seemed fitting for a lemming-like minion type
(I have a deep seated desire to wade through a room full of Drudger goons to get to a NAME :P)
actually, Goon's not a bad term either for one of the first two levels of enemies.
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[i]....Fly me to the moon and let me play among the stars...[/i]
And we can then fight a bunch of Goonies :) Watch out for the kid with the "Truffle Shuffle" attack though.
The Phoenix Rising Initiative Rules Lawyer
HAH!
I'm down with fighting hoards of those damned Goonies as they swarm, zerg-like, through One-eyed Willy's cave....
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[i]....Fly me to the moon and let me play among the stars...[/i]
Ahhh One-Eyed Willy's cave. I never understood why my older brother laughed at that when I first saw The Goonies...
The Phoenix Rising Initiative Rules Lawyer
The way I interpret this is that swarmlings are just that: a swarm that, as a whole, may measure up to a 'mob' or 'experienced' (possibly even tougher, if there are enough of them) but, individually, are something one would just step on. Critters I equate with rikti monkeys. Can't quite step on them but if you give them a good smack they likely won't bother you again.
I think mook (always loved that term since I came across it in Feng Shui) works in place for 'mob'. Certainly heroes will not call policemen and the like mooks, but villains probably will. In a more military setting they might be called cannon fodder and, in certain sci-fi circles, red shirts.
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[font=Pristina][size=18][b]Hail Beard![/b][/size][/font]
Support [url=http://cityoftitans.com/comment/52149#comment-52149]trap clowns[/url] for CoT!
A lot of people seem unhappy with mob so what about STACNASATEs (Stronger Than A Critter Not As Strong As The Experienced)?
Or Goldilocks (not too strong, not too weak, just right)?
BTW the only issue I'd have with mobs is actually that they're all mobs in the mobile entity gaming sense, so if someone is talking about mobs do they mean any baddies/allies or just the 3rd rank (the Stacnasates....)
By my mohawk shall ye know me
mob?
what about:
cronies
cohorts
consorts
convoy
affiliates
While I can sense the ingenuity being used in some of these terms to come close enough to skirt the edges of legal matters, others seem to fall a little short.
I will concur with those that have spoken before me on not liking 'mob' as a critter rank since there's the gaming shorthand confusion involved, same thing with Experienced...
Why not 'Associate' and 'Supervisor' respectively? For some of these types this would be their day job and others would possibly be put in charge of small groups. It's neutral on the morality scale and instantly conjures up the idea that 'this is what these people do for a living' which can evoke a sense of sympathy as well when used by a faction similar to the Lost where they're mostly vagrants who have nothing that they /can/ do. Sure the 'Supervisor' one seems a little silly there, but it would work for MOST kinds of factions in addition to being a rather modern term.
I'm not feeling Ingenuity either. It's there, but it feels flat and also somewhat specific. Someone above suggested Favors, but that seems wrong for general currency as well. IF we do end up with Favors, those should be the replacement for Merits as those are a much closer comparison in terms. "Your deeds merit you this honor/reward," compares well to "I had to call in a few favors to get this."
Rec, for 'Recognition' and 'Recognizance' could work with a simple dual-sided system. Someone with high Recognition could be said to be a person that is looked up to for doing the right thing whereas someone with high Recognizance has a few people they can get to say "S/He couldn't'a done that. I wuz with'em the whole time in Miami." Yes, the two words mean essentially the same damn thing. I think that's an even better reason to use them, or even just Recognition by itself as a completely neutral currency name since it can be said that even the most amoral people will still pay homage to a greater force.
I know I'm biased since it's my idea and all, but Recognition grabs me in a way that Ingenuity doesn't. It has that feel to it that makes it sit more comfortably as something that can be quantified without implicitly saying something about a character whose concept might run contrary to the name of the currency.
If someone has a concept of a hero that isn't too bright but knows how to get the job done; that concept might seem a little silly with a hundred million Ingenuity sitting in his account. That same hero with Recognition, however, feels a lot less silly because now they're being told they're known for getting the job done despite their shortcomings. This even works for those 'Dark, brooding, mysterious' type of characters who nobody knows yet everyone knows about. Batman: Nobody knows specifics outside of a small group of close family and friends, but he is instantly recognized the second he shows up. Blandy McNinja: Nothing is known of them other than they vanish when you don't pay close attention and they're good in a fight. Despite this, they've built enough of a reputation as a complete badass that just dressing like a ninja and claiming to be them gives people second thoughts. Nintendo, Honda, Wal-Mart, Sunoco, Verizon; all big names that are instantly recognized for what they do because of just being BIG names in their business.
We want our characters to feel BIG, to feel IMPORTANT. Ing(enuity) falls flat while Rec(ognition) seems like a winner.
The original Lady of Ysgard. -Virtue
[img]http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2010/203/c/5/Updated_Homage_by_Voldine.jpg[/img]
Everything in one of our updates is a hint. There's one enemy faction we've mentioned about five times and nobody's noticed.
Heck, nobody's noticed Timmy Simian's a gorilla yet. He must be related to Sam Simeon.
[color=#ff0000]Project Lead[/color]
Just a reminder, Warcabbit:
http://cityoftitans.com/comment/31544#comment-31544
Anything I suggest is fair game if it grabs you guys.
The original Lady of Ysgard. -Virtue
[img]http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2010/203/c/5/Updated_Homage_by_Voldine.jpg[/img]
Oh, I noticed the name. I just thought it wouldn't be polite to mention it ^_^
Foradain, Mage of Phoenix Rising.
[url=https://cityoftitans.com/forum/foradains-character-conclave]Foradain's Character Conclave[/url]
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Avatar courtesy of [s]Satellite9[/s] [url=https://www.instagram.com/irezoomie/]Irezoomie[/url]
Taking a step back for a bit, there's two major problems. (And the team obviously knows there's problems, else they wouldn't've explicitly asked for input.)
1) It's too repetitive. Of the nine grades, five of them are a "boss".
2) It's not thematically consistent. A "critter" is an animal, but a "boss" is a person.
We can improve on both of those. Instead of 1 Swarmling, 2 Critter, 3 Mob, 4 Experienced, 5 Boss, 6 Named Boss, 7 Epic Boss, 8 Monster Boss, 9 Epic Monster Boss...
An animalistic theme: 1 Swarmling, 2 Pest, 3 Varmint, 4 Critter, 5 Beast, 6 Brute, 7 Fiend, 8 Monster, 9 Behemoth/Leviathan.
A mobster theme: 1 Underling, 2 Flunkey, 3 Lackey, 4 Accomplice, 5 Boss, 6 Don, 7 Capo, 8 Kingpin, 9 Big Wig.
A cop theme: 1 Rookie, 2 Flatfoot, 3 Cop, 4 Deputy, 5 Captain, 6 Sheriff, 7 Chief, 8 Marshal, 9 Director.
A corporate theme: 1 Drudge/Peon, 2 Worker, 3 Associate, 4 Assistant, 5 Manager, 6 Boss, 7 Director, 8 Executive, 9 Chief Exceutive.
A feudal theme: 1 Slave, 2 Serf, 3 Peasant, 4 Knight, 5 Baron, 6 Count, 7 Duke, 8 King, 9 Emperor.
A "how many of them can I take on" theme: 1 Myriad, 2 Pentad, 3 Triad, 4 Duo, 5 Solo Plus, 6 Solo, 7 Team, 8 Raid, 9 World.
I'm sure others can do better, but you get the idea.
[size=1]Kickstart Backer # 771[/size]
Labeling every theme is excessive. All labels should be simplified and generalized such as currency, and especially rank. A key factor of the game is to make sure information isn't convoluted, but to streamline it, so you don't have to think while you strategize and plan. I believe most terminology should point to comics/games that everyone can quickly understand. Even though I thought the names weren't too bad, here are my suggestions:
Swarmling
Novice
Subordinate
Underboss
Boss
Leader
Entity
Advanced Entity
Epic Entity
Ultimate Entity
Though it might be cool to turn it on it's head, and break it into level scale like marvel does with mutants http://x-men.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Mutation_Level_Scale
But instead of using level scale, use Threat Class:
Threat Class A = Swarmling
Threat Class B1 = Critter
Threat Class B2 = Mob
Threat Class B3 = Experienced
Threat Class C1 = Boss
Threat Class C2 = Named Boss
Threat Class D = Epic Boss
Threat Class X1 = Monster
Threat Class X2 = Monster Boss
Threat Class Y = Epic Monster Boss
edit: The Threat Class wouldn't have "swarmling"--I'm just comparing to the current system.
5 OClock Shadow
"The Five", "Old Scruff", "Wolfbrand", "Tashomono"
Your shaving days are numbered...
They're big, they're ugly and they're sure to cause a panic.
Why not the obvious option... [b]Kaiju[/b].
[url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_HUdf89hI8]Send out your signal, call in your hero
I kidnapped his lady, now his power's are zero.
[/url]
I dislike that "mob" as well. I just learned why that term, that was used in a context that makes no sense, has been used here.
[url=http://zapatopi.net/treeoctopus/] Save the endangered Pacific Northwest Tree Octopus from Extinction![/url]
LIKE!!
lol'd some too
Just lucky that way.
That's much too complicated. If someone tells me there's a sheriff or a fiend over there, I don't want to have to consult a chart to remember whether that's the equivalent of a LT, a boss, or an EB. If I hear, "That group has a boss" I know that the boss is tougher than an experienced but not as bad as a named boss.
I don't think we will see any people, or the equivalent, as swarmlings or critters. As I posted above, I equate critters with the likes of rikti monkeys. Basically, weak pet type enemies.
To go back to your earlier post:
I've put in my two cents but it's worth repeating: I like Mook.[color=red]*[/color]
Accomplice sounds too passive to me, but I am probably odd in that. If we absolutely need to avoid lieutenant, I would rather have 'adjutant' or 'second'.
I'm thinking 'named boss' is meant to be a descriptor. In the game these enemies are likely to actually have names, e.g. Don Julio, Captain Becks, or Chief Crunchyhammer.
I'd prefer a simple 'champion'.
Works for me.
[br]
[color=red]*[/color] For those who are not familiar with the Feng Shui RPG, mooks are basically filler. Your standard Hollywood extras They are bowling pins who are there mostly so that the main character has something to do while the hero and villain move toward their confrontation.
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[font=Pristina][size=18][b]Hail Beard![/b][/size][/font]
Support [url=http://cityoftitans.com/comment/52149#comment-52149]trap clowns[/url] for CoT!
Yeah, sorry - -didn't mean to diss EQ. I was using WoW in a more generic sense to mean the largest population of MMOers out there, who tend to describe everything in terms of their game.
As for the credits term, if we don't go with Foradain's INF, Voldine's Recognition certainly makes sense to me. Each term works well regardless of alignment.
Ah I see now. "It would be impossible to discuss the subject without a common frame of reference." Materia does get my imagination going in some interesting directions...!
Does that mean the new Arc is not analogous to a TF, but rather a new level of regular content?
Spurn all ye kindle.
Ingenuity - I don't think this quite hits the mark on what it is trying to describe. Sounds like we are sacrificing a good word for perfect word and we all know that "Perfection is the enemy of the Good".
Anyway my alternate suggestions are words that suggest feelings of being a hero (Pride, Peace, Poise, Badassery (ok maybe not that one)) , , or words that show the impact of being a hero in what you receive from the people (Respect (not to be confused with Respec although that was a common mistake if you recall Global Chat requests), Adulation, Trust, Love).
So these might not be the right options for an alternate name but I hope the thought behind how the name is decided is influenced by these concepts.
Cheers
This is a good point.
I kind of like this idea. Especially the groupings B and C, which contain several grades. And then the skip from D to X.
Edited to add...
Maybe: 1 Swarmling, 2 Easy Mook, 3 Standard Mook, 4 Tough Mook, 5 Standard Boss, 6 Named Boss, 7 Big Boss, 8 Monster, 9 Big Monster.
Or other names with the same groupings. [b]5 OClock Shadow[/b] makes a good point that the grade should be easy to discern. Grouping helps this.
[size=1]Kickstart Backer # 771[/size]
I just wanted to throw my hat in that I, too, kind of like the literal 'threat rating' approach.
not only would it be in theme, for the setting, but it could be applied more universally than simply mob threat cons....
basically, if we make a functional threat scale, it could be applied to PC and NPC alike.
I'm actually a big fan of this whole line of reasoning.... and think it has a lot of potential.
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[i]....Fly me to the moon and let me play among the stars...[/i]
I too like this idea! Any name that you were to come up with for a rank will bother some people anyway so just eliminating the name for a threat class (or something similar) is a great compromise.
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I never set anything on fire accidentally!
The Titan Legacy - Defender of the Inner Flame
Not that I'm busy, but I made this target UI for the heck of it (made up the dudes/2 of the factions):
5 OClock Shadow
"The Five", "Old Scruff", "Wolfbrand", "Tashomono"
Your shaving days are numbered...
Maybe they could be rated videogame style... from 'f' at the lowest to "sss" as the highest...
They could be fancied up as zeta through "triple sigma"...
Its a little tongue in cheek but fully functional.... and allows for 'critters' and 'swarmlings' to be more than rats and imps as characters become more powerful...
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[i]....Fly me to the moon and let me play among the stars...[/i]
So you guys like Feng Shui, huh? One of our devs - one of the guys writing the comic, actually, was a huge Shadowfist fan, kept a big site up. Still does.
[color=#ff0000]Project Lead[/color]
So... I'm thinking for the enemy categories.... the concept of a Threat Class or Threat Assessment Rating is really the best approach to the concept. it eliminates the necessity to dodge previously used terms, or shoehorn in new ones that don't really make sense "in character"
An Abbreviated "TC" or "TA" (imo, Threat Assessment sounds better and more "Thematic")would work fine in "technical diagnostic" information (i.e. enemy bios/discriptions) while A Simple system of emblems/letters would function perfectly fine in place of the "names" of enemy categories(minion, lieutenant, elite boss, etc)
in clicking on an enemy, then the rapid information (overhead display) would look something like:
[center]Enforcer
Five Dragons
[b]δ[/b][/center]
Or, if we want a little more info:
[center]Enforcer
Five Dragons
[b]TA: δ[/b][/center]
or eliminating the greekyness:
[center]Enforcer
Five Dragons
Threat Class: [b]E[/b][/center]
with coloring depicting the con level to you
simple, clean, easy to understand, and both fitting for the setting and "non-denominational"
we could even see capital vs lower case lettering to distinguish between "enemy+" types....so you could have the low threat hoard enemies appear as "ζ" in early arcs or in the open world... but in TF type missions they might show up as "TA: Z"
likewise, the uber monstrosities roaming the back alleys of lower-level zones might rank "σσσ" while those in higher threat areas might be listed as "ΣΣΣ"
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[i]....Fly me to the moon and let me play among the stars...[/i]
GhostHack I really like your "Threat Assessment Rating", but with abbreviations I'd stick with 'TAR#':
Bulwark - "So far so good hey guys. We are Steamrollin' this - ahhh no offence Steamster. Hmmm this door is locked. OK lets bust through it and keep on rollin'"
SLAM
ROAR!!!!!!!!!
Bulwark = "Ohhh crap its a TAR 9!!!! Fall back FALL BACK!!"
The Phoenix Rising Initiative Rules Lawyer
Or we could have EE (swarmling), E (Critter), D (Mob), C (Experienced), B (Boss), A (Named Boss), AA (Epic Boss), AAA (Monster Boss), and S (Epic Monster Boss), for those of us without greek keyboards or a Alt + ### cheatsheet :p
Other similar schemes:
EEE, EE, E, D, C, B, A, AA, S, SS
LLL, LL, L, M, E, B, A, X, Y, Z
1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10
But all but the last are a bit counter intuitive. "Boss" is pretty clear, though a first-timer may expect EB (Epic Boss, not Elite Boss* :p) [AV]-Level when they hear "Boss", and Experienced is clearly stronger than Mob, Named Boss (I really hope that's not what appears on screen) is higher than boss, Epic Boss, Monster Boss could be misconstrued as a larger, but equally powerful Epic Boss, while Epic Monster Boss clearly trumps Both.
Triple Sigma may not imply more powerful than lowercase Zeta for a noob. Even the above could me misconstrued to be the opposite (AA is weakest, smallest (get the joke ;) ), whereas EEE could be larger), Z could be highest or lowest, like Aces in cards.
I digress. The point is, we should remain within intuitive lines, even for those who aren't seasoned gamers and used to seeing SS as clearly better than D. And this is an area where the Dev-proposed system does well. Critter vs swarmling could be confusing, but overall it's pretty intuitive.
*What would we do about Named Bosses that are normal. Like Longbow ballistas or Rikti Ride Armours? Would they be "named boss"es even though they lack a specific name?
Sidenote: CO made a horrible choice for Con system.
[hr]
[color=red]PR, Forum Moderator[/color]
[url=http://cityoftitans.com/forum/desvipers-creative-impulsivity]My Non-Canon Backstories[/url]
Avatar by MikeNovember
hehe... well, I'd say something more like "awww, cwap, it's a Triple S" or "That Alpha's got nuthin' on me!"
but yeah, TAR "n" (where n-some number or letter designation) also works just fine...
but I think the idea of
Sigmas
Alphas
Betas
Gammas
Deltas
Eps (epsilons)
and Zetas
is pretty clear and simple to most folks
you know, those early TARs are E-Z
then you get Deltas, the lowest rung on the ladder of authentic threats
Gammas, their slightly tougher cousins
Betas, the pretty dangerous ones
and Alphas, the legitimate threats...
and then there's the Sigmas, 1, 2, and 3..... seriously dangerous types that one should not engage recklessly.
___________________________________
[i]....Fly me to the moon and let me play among the stars...[/i]
while I might agree, on paper....
I just cant see that being true in any sort of real setting....
there is no player so stupid (no matter how noobish) that they would mistakenly assume that a character with a name, a unique look and a Sigma emblem below their name was less powerful than a generic pile of rats with a Zeta symbol...
NOW, there could be some level of confusion between Alpha-ranked threats and Sigma ranked threats (as they are arguably similar in concept as physical objects in game (a "named boss" vs and "epic named boss", basically)) But considering that this game WILL have some level of both color-coded Con referencing and a tutorial on such issues as "how to determine what sort of enemies you can handle"....
I cant imagine, even for a noob, that any confusion would be long-lived.
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[i]....Fly me to the moon and let me play among the stars...[/i]
And that's what helped me in CoH, and I'd love to see our con colour system.
I saw an "Elite Boss" that conned two levels above me and assumed he was about as strong as a boss, and therefore much weaker than me and my zombies (MM ftw!). NOPE, Silver Mantis kicked my @$$. According to ParagonWiki, EBs have twice the HP and are way harder to mez. "Hero" was also confusing; since I was redside, I considered half my enemies "heroes" so another "hero" would be a sinch. But I saw the purple con before I had another NOPE and my zombies were rekilled.
An intuitive colour code is at least as important as intuitively-named ranks. And please have red be the top :p
[hr]
[color=red]PR, Forum Moderator[/color]
[url=http://cityoftitans.com/forum/desvipers-creative-impulsivity]My Non-Canon Backstories[/url]
Avatar by MikeNovember
Personally, I always though Black with a Red Boarder should be the "top"
like, have all other cons be a single color (grey, white, blue, green, yellow, orange, red,)
with the "epic" or "sigma" ranked ones being Black with a red border (like do not F with me ;P)
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[i]....Fly me to the moon and let me play among the stars...[/i]
That implies villainy though, it makes perfect sense for a hero, but for a villain, idk.
I vote Red with Yellow border, combined with the colour code you'd already mentioned, with red as top.
[hr]
[color=red]PR, Forum Moderator[/color]
[url=http://cityoftitans.com/forum/desvipers-creative-impulsivity]My Non-Canon Backstories[/url]
Avatar by MikeNovember
If red is the top, where do you put purple? Going grey-green-blue-white-yellow-orange-red and [i]then[/i] purple really called attention to the high end of the scale.
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I never set anything on fire accidentally!
The Titan Legacy - Defender of the Inner Flame
I'd like to see the same con colors as CoX.
Marvel already does the Greek characters when it comes to mutant class. And hey, cybermitheral! Don't give GhostHack my credit! I personally like starting at A, and the farther you go down the alphabet, the more difficult the mob. Sort of like bra size - the higher, the bigger.
5 OClock Shadow
"The Five", "Old Scruff", "Wolfbrand", "Tashomono"
Your shaving days are numbered...
Sorry 5O, I skimmed a few of the posts.
This isn't a Greek mythology themed game so why use Greek characters? Its set in the near future in a US city.
The Phoenix Rising Initiative Rules Lawyer
It's set in an alternate dimension, not the near future. Science works differently here and super heroes have been common thing since the beginning time. This isn't our world this is theirs. A lot of lore in the updates states this to be true.
not my video just one I lke ===> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6-SdIN0hsM
[CENTER][URL=http://www.nodiatis.com/personality.htm][IMG]http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/24.jpg[/IMG][/URL][/CENTER]
I'm still going through the KS updates, but what mythology will be chief in CoT? Greek? Roman? Norse? Central Asian?
I understood that Janus only [i]claims[/i] to be godly; he actually has [redacted] as the source of his power.
[hr]
[color=red]PR, Forum Moderator[/color]
[url=http://cityoftitans.com/forum/desvipers-creative-impulsivity]My Non-Canon Backstories[/url]
Avatar by MikeNovember
If we do end up with Power Source or Origins Id love there to be a '[Redacted]' option :)
The Phoenix Rising Initiative Rules Lawyer
I think the threat level indicator color code should be more like a "heat suignature" with dark blue/purple being the "coldest" and thus least threatening and bright yellow or white being the "hottest" or most threatening. Or it could go from black on the low side through brighter and brighter shades of red on the hot side. Maybe have another color option for the color blind or just make it user-selectable as to what the non-black color-of-choice is.
R.S.O. of Phoenix Rising
Well, the threat level indicator wouldn't be color coded. I only suggested it as a replacement for the most recent ranking system, or rather for the devs to look at it from a different angle. It's the con system showing whether you can defeat it or not that is color coded. You could have a Threat Level: A being purple to you, and still have a Threat Level D be dark gray--if CoT adopts the CoX con system.
5 OClock Shadow
"The Five", "Old Scruff", "Wolfbrand", "Tashomono"
Your shaving days are numbered...
Despite the name "titans", I don't think there's anything particularly "greek" about the COT setting.... in fact "phoenix plaza" and "alexandria" both imply Northern African/Carthaginian if anything...
Personally a "Sinbad of the seven seas" approach to mythology would be my preference (i.e. not "greek" or "roman" ..... but rather "Mediterranean"... where Eris and Bast and Hermes and Djinn all roam the mythological plane)
they could even establish a sort of "mythological cold war" between Eastern traditions and Mediterranean traditions..
But in any case, I wasn't specifically saying we should use Greek characters... merely that we COULD (as there's some precedence for it in gaming and comic fandom)
Personally, I wouldn't want to see "A" be lowest, with subsequent beings being lower and lower letters for the simple fact that I find people using "omega" to mean "ultimate awesome" annoying, cliche and trite.
personal opinion, I know.
meanwhile, making a tongue-in-cheek reference beyond the fourth wall, by having the In-Setting terminology for Threat Assessment mirror the video game staple of having F (or D) through SSS...
...seems vastly more clever and fun, and fresh.
the greek letters came about as a means of further disguising the "in-joke" so that it would take more than a passing glance to catch on, and nothing more.
beyond that, I would have no problem having the scores go F-SSS just in regular Phoenician letters.
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[i]....Fly me to the moon and let me play among the stars...[/i]
Ah never mind, I called it the ranking system "Threat Class", not Threat Level lol. Perhaps you were talking about the con system, Radiac.
5 OClock Shadow
"The Five", "Old Scruff", "Wolfbrand", "Tashomono"
Your shaving days are numbered...
yep, we're all discussing two things...
the first is what has been called, variously "Threat Class," "Threat Level", and "Threat Assessment" among others...
(i.e. what "rank" an enemy is, from peon to epic monstrosity)
the second is the visual indication of an enemy's "con" (like a color code that expresses how difficult a particular enemy would be for you to face given your current level/strength/etc)
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[i]....Fly me to the moon and let me play among the stars...[/i]
what about using a color wheel?
ex: [img]http://i.imgur.com/K0r9sES.png[/img]
..and going clockwise from bottom (i made some of them a little lighter.. we can tweak the colors more):
[img]http://i.imgur.com/7ac2GOv.png[/img]
Left to Right (Weakest to strongest)
Sooooo,
Swarmlings the 1st one? lighter hue of Blue.
Critters the 2nd one? Darkened Cyan.
Mob the 3rd one? lighter hue of green.
etc.. (the rest the same)
And the Pink one is.. err.. Killer Wabbits! or Killer WarCabbits. His Trusted and loyal henchmen. ;D
Ohh, we dont have any naming conventions for Pets? :<
And we can always throw in Gray20, and maybe a Gray40, and White. But I'm a little against using white, because that could cause IP issues. Well, maybe not, since we have PINK! ;D
The color codes that go from grey through to white to red and purple are fairly standard across many MMOs and are worth keeping for that, as well as that this system is familiar from CoH.
I could get behind the TAR system, but then I'd like something simple and intuitive to go with it, be it numbers or the Latin alphabet.
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[font=Pristina][size=18][b]Hail Beard![/b][/size][/font]
Support [url=http://cityoftitans.com/comment/52149#comment-52149]trap clowns[/url] for CoT!
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