Unlockable or Purchasable Instant Max Level?

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oOStaticOo
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Unlockable or Purchasable Instant Max Level?

As was mentioned in a different thread, and suggested that it be moved, how do we feel about the ability to be able to unlock or purchase from the cash store the ability to create a character at max level or X level?

While there are a lot of people out there that enjoy the grind from 1 to max level there is also evidence out there that many people do not. Hence, Power Leveling.

So the idea would be that after you grind through X characters to max level you would then unlock the ability to create any character you want at either max level or X level. On the flip side, you could also go into the cash store and buy a token to create 1 character at max level or X level.

If you are like me, I went through over 20 level 50 characters on CoH. Most of them I grinded through to level 50, some I had friends PL to 50. I knew how to play each and every character I had, so I wasn't some AE PL n00b that had no idea how to set up my characters and play them. I had also pretty much ran through all the content in the game and really didn't care too much to experience it over and over again. For me the fun was at the end of the game doing Statesman, Recluse, Imperious Task Forces, and running all the Incarnate Trials.

So would this be an acceptable idea? It would help make MWM some extra money in the Cash Shop and give experienced players that have ran through everything the old fashioned way an extra perk.

I got chills! They're multiplyin'. And I'm losin' control. Cuz the power, I'm supplyin'. Why it's ELECTRIFYIN'!!

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That'd certainly keep away

That'd certainly keep away the players who I don't want to play with from my groups, but I honestly don't see the point. Everyone has their preferences, but my reward for playing a game like CoX was earning my level 50s, and experiencing their paths--not to just have them. I'd have my 3-6 month breaks because I didn't want to go through the grind or got bored of the current game, but I think I'd be indefinitely taking a break if I could basically put in a cheat code, and get any level 50. Not for me.

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I have to admit that I've

I have to admit that I've wanted to roll a toon and play test them out with All their Primaries and Secondaries that i can choose.
But, i just wanted to see how it would look and feel with all the powers.
I just wanted to see the animations and the FX of each, how powers would look attacking a Mob of foes, and nothing more.
I didnt actually want to become 50, just get a glimpse of my toons future coolness. ;)

Starting at level 1 was Ok with me. :)

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Like oOStaticOo I too felt

Like oOStaticOo I too felt the pain of making a new character from level 1 after having over 20 level 50's and when I played COH I wanted a way to skip the 'fluff' levels (1-10, 1-15, 1-20?).
While I personally wouldn't mind seeing this (Im don't think we should allow Straight to Max Level purchases) if it is there should be restrictions on when you can unlock this.

Examples:
- Must have a max level character of that Class AND Spec already (a single Level 50 Hunter does not mean I can make a level 20 Gunner)
Or
- Must have a level 50 with that powerset already (Level 50 SD/BA Tank I can then make a level 20 DM/SD Brute)
Or
- Must have 5 max level characters
Or
- Must have 10 characters at level 45+

Something along those lines so you have to have experience in the game to unlock it.

As a purchasable item that's ok as well.

As for purchasing a 1-50 Token from the Game Store.... IF we did I'd expect it to be VERY expensive in comparison to other items and this could lead to claims of Pay-2-Win. In addition maybe the Game Store will only sell this if you have unlocked it by attaining something like the above options - "Reach Level 50 and you can purchase a token that will allow you to create a Max Level character - $50".
Sure some people will find a way to PL their first character but I doubt those people would stay with the game anyway for long.

I just don't know about the Pay for Max Level idea.....

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cybermitheral wrote:
cybermitheral wrote:

... unlocked it by attaining something like the above options - "Reach Level 50 and you can purchase a token that will allow you to create a Max Level character - $50".

Hmm.. after a while, people will Imminently complain about the price and before you know it, it will drop to $30, then $25, and eventually settle around $19 - $20. And thats BAD. It shouldnt have been introduced in the game store from the get go. :P

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I think the CoT devs have

I think the CoT devs have expressed a commitment to make a successor game with more universal appeal than CoH. To do that they are going to have to make an honest assessment of how CoH was "really" played by many different types of players. And they should make improvements in those areas that are deemed flawed. One of the decision points the devs are going to have to reach fairly early on is how viable PLing of characters will be in CoT as a play strategy. If it's going to be as viable of a strategy as CoH then there is no need for this measure. Those who wish to do so (or pay someone else to do so) should just rip through levels 1 through max as rapidly as possible in the most efficient means possible and consider the brief delay to the top as a minor inconvenience. I personally don't believe this is good for the overall health of the game, experiencing content or for learning to play effectively but it's not my call to determine the level this practice will be tolerated in CoT.

If you take the position that PLing should not be as viable of a play option then you either force players who desire many high level characters to repeatedly grind content ad nauseam OR at a reasonable point in time, when reasonable parameters have been met you offer some relief such as the OP suggests. This would be a welcome addition to the game for those who qualify. I would add that the OPs suggestion is tailored for a particular style of play for a particular segment of the player community. It should be evaluated on those terms. If you do not share this play style it does not invalidate the suggestion for those that do.

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Until I know what the

Until I know what the leveling experience is like, and can intelligently discuss the pace at which new content is introduced, I cannot judge whether this idea might be acceptable.

Sure, WoW has made such a feature available. However, they have introduced it in time for their fifth (I think?) expansion. It also takes characters to the current maximum level, not the maximum level of the new expansion. Essentially it is meant to allow players to skip the 'old' content and jump straight in with the new expansion.

If it is only about the money then if, eventually, it makes business sense for MWM to allow people to pay to skip the primary end game, by all means, why not?

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Personal unofficial opinion:

Personal unofficial opinion:

I think it would not be a good idea unless it was expensive enough that you REALLY had to think about it. Also it should not be available for some years after launch and only to experienced players. I don't know how you'd measure that, as "having N max level characters" can just mean you've been PLd.

I levelled my first 72 50s the hard way and had a blast doing it. I shortcut a few more before the end, but pretty much all my heroes had taskforce commander even if they were mainly PLd.

You really don't want the low level zones and TFs to be routinely skipped, having experienced players aroung to help newbies is good.

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Isn't the purpose of a game

Isn't the purpose of a game to relax and have fun with friends?

I do not understand the propensity of a certain segment of the Furless gamers who get themselves PL'd or *pay* someone else to play their character. It boggles my kitty brain and I wind up scratching my furry noggin and shrugging. I also do not understand why someone would want to play the same class/power combination and just have a different costume and name. That's what costume change tokens were for.

I guess I'm approaching this from an RP standpoint, but I had a blast playing Amerikatt for a great long time -- time in which I could have gotten several lesser characters to Level 50 -- but to what end? If I'm going to invest time in developing a character, then they are more to me than just a series of numbers and a bunch of shiny costumes.

I agree with Minotaur that

Minotaur wrote:

having experienced players around to help newbies is good.

I spent at least three times as much play time in newbie and lowbie zones doing fly-by heals than I did in the Incarnate trials. I also derived considerably more joy and pleasure from doing my community service (even if only one in 15 people actually thanked me).

I would give the OP's idea two thumbs down (if I *had* opposable thumbs)!

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It never really bothered me

It never really bothered me that some PLed their toons to 50 while I earned mine the hard way.

There will be almost as many different definitions of "fun" and philosophies on leveling as there will be players. I don't like anyone telling me I'm having fun wrong so I certainly wouldn't presume to tell anyone else the same thing. I'd like it if the game has something to offer the widest audience possible without diluting the experience for everyone (if that makes any sense...it sounded better in my head LOL).

That being said, I agree that such a system, if implemented at all, should be done long after launch and not be a casual or impulsive thing.

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It took me well over a year

It took me well over a year before I got my first level 50. Once I did, it didn't stop me from starting other characters at level 1 and leveling them all the way to 50. Only after I had achieved several 50's did I start feeling the desire to have the ability to just be able to make a character starting out at level 22 or level 50. For a while I would find the shortest way for me to run my characters up to level 35 (usually through running TF's) and then patiently wait for ITF's to be announced so that I could repeatedly run those until I hit level 50. Then AE came out and I would use it to my advantage, before too long I was using the new Sewer Trial to run up to around level 22 and then hitting AE to push me up to 35 so I could start ITF'ing.

I'm not trying to take away from anybody that wants to play the game from level 1 to max level if they so choose. I'm just asking for an option for those that perhaps don't care for the grind as much once they've achieved a certain amount of max characters. We could restrict this in several ways.

1.) X amount of total hours played on the character that would be significant enough to show that you actually played the character.
2.) X amount of total max level characters. Could be 5, could be 10. Whatever amount that MWM would deem as appropriate to show that you've played a lot to max level.
3.) 1 of each AT type to max level. Again showing that you may have put in enough time to show that you know how to play each class sufficiently.
4.) X amount of badges unlocked. This would show that you actually took the time to run through the content instead of being PL'd to max level X amount of times.
5.) A combination of the above 1-4 points.

And I'm sure there are more ways that could be suggested as well.

Is it perfect? No. Sure there will still be people who will try to take advantage of the system, but there always will be. However, this will be a way to curtail some PL'ing while also giving MWM another option at making some money. Why pay someone else to PL you if MWM can offer you a purchasable token to PL yourself?

I got chills! They're multiplyin'. And I'm losin' control. Cuz the power, I'm supplyin'. Why it's ELECTRIFYIN'!!

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Being a young wipper snapper

Being a young wipper snapper i am i understand why people power leveled. I generally PLed myself from 25 to 35 simply because the leveling during that time was really slow. TFs at that level didn't give good exp at all and missions are slow pased (spelling?) or boring to do especially doing it for the umptin time. 35+ is when the fun began again.

For the original idea, I'm not a fan of the auto 50 item. The learning of the character is important and skipping it all means we will have 50s running around not knowing how to play game/character. Could try a anniversary type of give away of this item. Claim it on any one character that is not 50. Either automatically given to every account and not tradable in every circumstance or a special event that must be done by a 50 like a Anniversary hamidon raid of some-sort.

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No.

No.

If people want to try to get their friends to PL them or pay someone to do that, fine, but I don't see any reason to subsidize it. Not to put too fine a point on it, but I'm constantly trying to think up new ways to make money for the devs, so you'd think this would be something I'd be "for" but I'm very against it. This sort of thing is the equivalent of handing the game controller to your older brother and asking him to win the game for you. It's a self-defeating act.

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I don't think there's

I don't think there's anything wrong with leveling quickly. No down time and 10 - 15 levels in one sitting makes me feel like I'm getting my money's worth. That's reaching maximum efficiency and dominating the game. As long as it progresses through some sort of story or purpose, the entire team and I are 100% involved, and I earn more than just experience, that's the kind of "PLing" that can be fun and meaningful. Some days I liked to completely dissect a story arc and explore every inch of every map, then the next day I'd want to mindlessly crush through some levels to balance it all out. I'd like measures to be taken to prevent any sort of tag along PLing or insta-leveling.

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Minotaur wrote:
Minotaur wrote:

Personal unofficial opinion:
You really don't want the low level zones and TFs to be routinely skipped, having experienced players aroung to help newbies is good.

I'd say that depends on the "help" being asked and offered. I know you would not consider pl-ing newbies as something that qualifies under your criteria of help. But unfortunately, in CoH at least what I often saw was a constant request for lowbie pl-ing and more than a few offers to oblige... for a price. It goes back to my comment before about how CoH was "really" played..

I know I'm probably going to get slammed for going off topic (again) but all this stuff is interrelated. So let me try and steer back on track. If the amp goes to level 10 in volume then that's where many people want to be... and to find one with a level 11 is even cooler. It's human nature. It's you guys' job (since you have chosen to accept it) to define the process on how that happens. That requires some important decisions including how much or how little of a grind to impose. I know you are already aware of this and I do not envy you. All I ask is that you fully consider the reality of the situation versus the ideal.

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If the decision was solely up

If the decision was solely up to me, I would say no to any kind of auto-level item. But as I say that, I know I have a bias to playing a character to the cap, whether through traditional content or mindlessly farming XP. I would give an OK to XP boosting items, letting you get to the cap faster but you still need to work for it.

As CoH progressed a lot changed in how long a character took to get to 50. Of course more content gave players different things to do on their trip to 50. Then there was the XP curve adjustment that made the trip from 30-40 significantly less of a slog. Latter on we got the ability to earn XP while exemplarred. This made running a lot of the lower level TFs much more appealing, and Oruroborros could be about getting levels as well replaying favorite or missed missions. Then there was patrol XP which either boosted your leveling speed, or absorbed your debt depending on how often you face-planted; either way it sped up your trip to 50. By the time the game closed a lot of the grind to 50 was gone even if no power leveling was used. We won't know what the trip to 30 (and eventually 50) is going to entail just yet for CoT. My gut feeling is it will probably be close to what CoH was like in its final years. If so, we will probably see a lot more people hitting the cap than we did in the early years of CoH. Whether that will lessen the need for instant max level or increase it I don't know.

Something else to think about, even before AE and the Sewer Trial it was not too difficult to reach level 10 within an hour of play. It didn't even take any power leveling tricks. If the first ten levels in CoT fly by like that I could possibly see selling an instant level ten booster in the store. This would not be until several years into the game's life and would probably cost a fair amount. Many people would probably rather spend their points on other things (i know I would), but for those who feel like "the game really starts at X level" it could be a boon. Once again, I would not green light it, but I would not raise a stink over it.

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syntaxerror37 wrote:
syntaxerror37 wrote:

If the decision was solely up to me, I would say no to any kind of auto-level item. But as I say that, I know I have a bias to playing a character to the cap, whether through traditional content or mindlessly farming XP. I would give an OK to XP boosting items, letting you get to the cap faster but you still need to work for it.
As CoH progressed a lot changed in how long a character took to get to 50. Of course more content gave players different things to do on their trip to 50. Then there was the XP curve adjustment that made the trip from 30-40 significantly less of a slog. Latter on we got the ability to earn XP while exemplarred. This made running a lot of the lower level TFs much more appealing, and Oruroborros could be about getting levels as well replaying favorite or missed missions. Then there was patrol XP which either boosted your leveling speed, or absorbed your debt depending on how often you face-planted; either way it sped up your trip to 50. By the time the game closed a lot of the grind to 50 was gone even if no power leveling was used. We won't know what the trip to 30 (and eventually 50) is going to entail just yet for CoT. My gut feeling is it will probably be close to what CoH was like in its final years. If so, we will probably see a lot more people hitting the cap than we did in the early years of CoH. Whether that will lessen the need for instant max level or increase it I don't know.
Something else to think about, even before AE and the Sewer Trial it was not too difficult to reach level 10 within an hour of play. It didn't even take any power leveling tricks. If the first ten levels in CoT fly by like that I could possibly see selling an instant level ten booster in the store. This would not be until several years into the game's life and would probably cost a fair amount. Many people would probably rather spend their points on other things (i know I would), but for those who feel like "the game really starts at X level" it could be a boon. Once again, I would not green light it, but I would not raise a stink over it.

Ohh. Make it 8 levels an i'll somehow agree to it..
..but ONLY if its bought when you Roll a NEW Toon,
and a MONTAGE is played after you START that shows a Cinematic of you fighting on a team, against several hard foes,
something to make them feel a bit of regret for missing out on some of those fun times actually leveling up with others. >:|

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Izzy wrote:
Izzy wrote:

Ohh. Make it 8 levels an i'll somehow agree to it..
..but ONLY if its bought when you Roll a NEW Toon,
and a MONTAGE is played after you START that shows a Cinematic of you fighting on a team, against several hard foes,
something to make them feel a bit of regret for missing out on some of those fun times actually leveling up with others. >:|

Actually, I like the montage Idea :)

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As long as it has Danger Zone

As long as it has Danger Zone playing in the background, I'm all for it.

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I want my montage to be like

I want my montage to be like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8cHYvf7Mms

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So, what is the difference in

So, what is the difference in having Double XP weekends with XP boosters while being Super Sidekicked to a level 50 running AE missions and blasting through the first 35 levels all within one hour of time? Were you able to spend time accurately playing your character? Every time you leveled did you stop the person and tell them you needed to go to the trainer and get your new power, slots, and enhancements?

Don't get me wrong. I love playing my characters too, and I enjoy running through new content as much as the next person. I'm just trying to play Devil's Advocate here for people that may want the option to skip some of the tediousness once they've already experienced what the game has to offer.

I got chills! They're multiplyin'. And I'm losin' control. Cuz the power, I'm supplyin'. Why it's ELECTRIFYIN'!!

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oOStaticOo wrote:
oOStaticOo wrote:

... may want the option to skip some of the tediousness once they've already experienced what the game has to offer.

What do you recall from CoH/CoV that was tedious.. specifics would be nice btw. :)

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I don't understand Why anyone

I don't understand Why anyone would want to be max-level. Once you're maxed-out, there's nothing left to do, but roll an Alt. I suppose you could endlessly repeat the last couple of TFs... Sounds boring.

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The main thing I enjoyed

The main thing I enjoyed about lvl 50 is basking in the glory of my accomplishments that turned my character into a super powered badass lol. People would probably use that cheat all the time though. Eventually people would feel bogged down because they died when they didn't want to, and demand immortality tokens so they could never die. Or a token for full ranged 10 powered Tertiary set or access to 100% of their powers because they feel under powered. Ok, maybe exaggerations and I'm being a jerk, but who knows.

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Fire Away wrote:
Fire Away wrote:

Minotaur wrote:
Personal unofficial opinion:

You really don't want the low level zones and TFs to be routinely skipped, having experienced players aroung to help newbies is good.

I'd say that depends on the "help" being asked and offered. I know you would not consider pl-ing newbies as something that qualifies under your criteria of help. But unfortunately, in CoH at least what I often saw was a constant request for lowbie pl-ing and more than a few offers to oblige... for a price. It goes back to my comment before about how CoH was "really" played..

I was talking about the chat "how do I ...?", "where is ...?" which was pretty common in AP, PLing is nothing to do with this and I seriously hope our starting zone doesn't have the AE equivalent in it.

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I want to make one more

I want to make one more comment about this whole deal and then shut up (please hold your applause). I thought pl-ing in CoH was pretty much out of control. I'll just come out and say that I want CoT to do a better job making players focus on completing content to level up at an appropriate pace. Now, on the surface, that looks like a position many would not argue against. After all, that would imply the game is working as intended in an ideal sense.

But if you look at this at beyond the superficial level you find you introduce another series of issues. While I consider pl-ing in general to be a very bad thing, it actually performed a number of useful and desirable functions. Or I should more appropriately say, it helped disguise some of CoH's shortcomings. Otherwise good people would never do it. Tried of playing Archetype A and want to play Archetype B (without the feeling that your original investment was a waste and you are "starting over")? Well, there was no full respec but you could pl yourself to the desired level in short order, jump in again and it was no big deal. Do you feel like you have "paid your dues" in running low level content and want to continue facing the biggest challenges the game offers at the highest level in a different way? Ok pl-ing had you covered.

If you do a better job of restricting pl-ing (and like I said, I believe the CoT devs should do this for the good of the game), then you need to at least consider innovative approaches to cover the kinds of real world scenarios that logically arise as a consequence. I'm not saying pay to win. I'm not saying break the game. I'm not saying undue entitlement. I am saying reduce pl-ing as best you can... in a smart way. I think the op's suggestion is a step in that direction.

Anyway, thank you for your consideration and the lack of personal attacks. Much appreciated.

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While towards the end of CoH

While towards the end of CoH's life a lot of the tediousness was lessened, in the beginning there were stages of xp growth that were horrible. Me personally I did not care for the leveling from 1 to 22. Once you reached SO levels things got a lot better for your character. Then there was the process of getting enough slots in your powers. Again that usually didn't happen until around level 35. While I know I am not indicative of the majority of population, my main pleasure in playing my characters was really from level 35 on. I loved repeating the ITF over and over again. I loved doing Statesman and Recluse TF's. I loved doing all the Incarnate stuff. I was not a big fan of doing all the lower level content. I loved the feeling my characters had once they were full powered, slotted, and IO'd out. I loved pushing my character to the maximum limits and seeing how much I could do.

So far I see a lot of I don't like this idea, but what are the negatives to this? Just because you like to level your characters from 1 to 50 the old fashioned way doesn't mean that everybody does. So what is the downside to this? How does it hurt the game really? Lower population for the lower level zones? What about the people who only play one character and never go back to the lower level zones or roll up an alt to play those zones? What about soloists? Doesn't that hurt the lower level zone population for teaming? Instant level 50 means n00b can't play your AT right? Who's to say how any one person should or shouldn't play their AT? Just because they are level 50 instantly doesn't mean they won't eventually learn how to play their AT "right". Why is it such a bad thing to consider? It could help MWM make money. It would be nice for some people to have the option to be able to make their AT starting at X level or max level if they so desired. Some content that the Devs make will never be seen by somebody that instantly makes a max level character? That content may not be seen anyways if that person finds some way to have their character PL'd.

I'm not seeing any real reasons why this is a bad idea besides the fact that some people enjoy playing from 1 to 50 and are afraid that someone who gets an instant max level character would be n00btastic. As I mentioned there could be restrictions placed on achieving this to help make it so that not any person can just jump on and buy an instant max level character from day one. I'm fine with placing restrictions on how this is achieved, if it is ever deemed a possible option.

I got chills! They're multiplyin'. And I'm losin' control. Cuz the power, I'm supplyin'. Why it's ELECTRIFYIN'!!

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oOStaticOo wrote:
oOStaticOo wrote:

While towards the end of CoH's life a lot of the tediousness was lessened, in the beginning there were stages of xp growth that were horrible. Me personally I did not care for the leveling from 1 to 22. Once you reached SO levels things got a lot better for your character.

The SO issue I completely agree with. SOs allowed you to noticeably amplify your powers in ways you liked. DOs and (yuck, TOs) didn't do much. 5% boost? Yuck. How boring.

To top it off, you had very few slots to work with, so those lame TOs and DOs were even more useless.

It is true that at low levels the game is different, with it being designed not to be too tough so you can learn the ropes, and hence the need for enhancements is greatly diminished. But it would be nice to boost the schedule amplification of whatever passes for enhancements in this game at the lower levels, if for no other reason than to feel like you're actually doing something.

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oOStaticOo wrote:
oOStaticOo wrote:

... I loved repeating the ITF over and over again. I loved doing Statesman and Recluse TF's. I loved doing all the Incarnate stuff. I was not a big fan of doing all the lower level content. I loved the feeling my characters had once they were full powered, slotted, and IO'd out. I loved pushing my character to the maximum limits and seeing how much I could do. ...

Hmmm... so I'm guessing you weren't very fond of some of mishes in the Hollows. Were you ever on a team in the Frostfire mish? What about the mish for Atta?

Point is, you could be David vs Goliath and come out with an Even greater feeling of accomplishment. But in this day and age, i dont think some ppl are devoted to working Hard and Feel they have Earned their right to have those powers/levels.

Its just like real life, you train in a sport or other activity, and you gain in experience, technique, and other things.. which we should be trying to make kids realize. I know this isnt an after school special, but still, maybe some adults might appreciate the ideology of a hero, but maybe you lean more to villains side. ;D
..If so, Then... forget it. It probably just went in one ear and out the other. ;D

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I ran Frostfire Missions and

I ran Frostfire Missions and even did the giant Atta cave mission. No, I never did really like running through the Hollows all that much. I'm sorry that I happen to like my characters with all of their powers and fully slotted with all IO's. Yes I did get a feeling of extreme pride whenever I accomplished something on a lower level character that many people thought I wouldn't, or that I really shouldn't have been able to do given the weakness of the character at the time. However, I had even more fun when I'd take my level 50 IO'd out Time/DP Defender and go solo a tower in the ITF while my friend with his Time/Fire Defender did the same with the opposite tower. Or take my IO'd out level 50 Elec/TW Tank and go round up 3 large mobs and pull them around a corner and wipe them out by the time all my other teammates caught up with me.

As I've said, your style of play is not indicative of my style of play and vice-versa. I understand that many people like going through the lower levels. I also know that I'm not the only person that really enjoys the end levels. So why do you feel the need to attack my style of play? I'm not trying to suggest anything that will inhibit people from still playing from 1 to max level if they so choose. I'm merely asking for an option for those people, like myself, that would like to be able to skip past certain levels and play at the levels that they enjoy after they've done something to deserve it. I am not against making restrictions for allowing this. I'm not against having multiple restrictions against this. I'm just merely asking for the option to be available. If it shouldn't be available then I'm open to reasons as to why this should not be, other than just because people think that you should only be able to level a character from 1 to max level because that's how they want it to be done.

As far as me feeling like I have earned the rights to have powers/levels, yes after accomplishing something like getting 10 level 50's I do feel like I have earned the right to have a character start out at a level I would desire. Why shouldn't I? I've put in the time and effort to do so. After working for 40+ years and retiring, don't you feel like you've earned the right to have Social Security after you've paid your dues? So again, what is wrong with expecting something after I've put in X amount of hours and leveled X amount of characters up to max level? Didn't CoH give us some Veteran rewards as perks for us putting in so much money by subbing for so long?

I'm wondering if people are just seeing the option to purchase a token to allow you to instantly max level out a character and freaking out thinking of all the newbie people who would do this and thinking it will completely ruin the game. Is this the case? If so, we could also put a restriction on that as well. Make it so that you can't purchase such a token until you've actually put in enough hours in the game, or unlocked certain badges throughout the game to prove that you've actually played the game and put in some time and effort. Again, asking for plausible ways that this could be done and implemented. If it can't, I'd just like to know why not. I'm not against making restrictions to having this done.

I got chills! They're multiplyin'. And I'm losin' control. Cuz the power, I'm supplyin'. Why it's ELECTRIFYIN'!!

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My expectation is that CoT

My expectation is that CoT will not have the TO/DO/SO/IO breakdown. At the same time, I freely admit that my last several dozen characters were all 'Magic Origin', so that I could take advantage of Mr. Yin's 'Talisman' SOs. Loading +60% Accuracy from level 10 onwards made my teens much easier to bear.

I remember when each Origin had at least two paths for advancement, one anchored in Galaxy City and the other in Atlas Park. After that, there was The Hollows, or King's Row and if you were a little tougher or had a good team, you could go straight to Steel Canyon or Skyway City. Or you could take the plunge into Perez Park.

What I'm trying to say is that the ONLY reason a person might get bored with the low-level content is if they didn't try the different variations. If that's the case, then you have no-one to blame but yourself.

I'll say that the single-arc path introduced in 'Freedom' was a step in the wrong direction. It was a great story, but we were single-tracked to the ending with no variation. That was a bad decision on the Devs' part. We needed Proliferation, not concentration, a dozen different stories of that same quality. Blowing up Galaxy City was a mistake.

So, don't sell a single-shot to higher level. At the outside, sell experience multipliers and have contacts flexible enough to pass quick-leveling characters up the chain, rather than expecting them to grind through an out-leveled arc. Or, build the story arcs such that they can dynamically adjust to the level of the character.

Be Well!
Fireheart

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I will start off my response

I will start off my response to this topic by simply stating that generally speaking I am not in favor of an "instant max level" option for CoT, especially one that's offered anytime relatively soon after the game's launch. But I understand that if you end up being a player who's leveled up dozens of characters you've probably gotten just about as much "fun" as you're ever going to get with the whole leveling process. It's an interesting dilemma.

We all know people will eventually be able to PL characters fairly quickly so the idea of being able to unlock max level characters after having "X number of level 50s" doesn't really serve as a reasonably tough requirement for this, even if the X is set at a very high value. As a compromise I'd probably be OK with allowing players to buy "max level" tokens but only as long as they cost $100 or more. I understand that might sound a bit too high a price and/or unfair to those who'd really want it. But the way I figure the use of this option in any capacity should be kept to a bare minimum (which the high price would ensure) and at least it would provide a decent bonus amount of money to MWM for those few brave souls who'd still be willing to pay that restrictive fee.

Ultimately as with most things time equals money. You'd just have to be willing to decide if $100+ is worth saving that amount of time for you.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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Okay. So here is a list of

Okay. So here is a list of things people would be okay with on having this idea.

1. It's expensive.
2. It's not available until years after launch.
3. It's only available if certain criteria are met to unlock it.
4. It doesn't give you max level, but instead starts you out at a higher level.

Here are the reasons why people are not okay with this idea.

1. Personally, I don't like it.
2. It might create a ghost town for lower level arcs wasting time that the developers placed on creating.
3. It might create an idiot that doesn't know how to play their character.
4. It might make people leave the game faster because they will lose interest in playing the game if they can instantly have a max level character.

So now I will address the portion that people are okay with in having this idea.

1. I agree the buyable token should be expensive. However, I do not agree that it should be so expensive no one will buy it. I'd like MWM to be able to make money off of this and setting the price too high means nobody will take the time to buy it and will instead pay some gold farmer instead to PL them therefore losing MWM money for being able to develop the game more.

2. Being available years after launch is fine. However making it available 10 years after launch seems, again, too extreme. I'm fine with waiting maybe 2 or 3 years to have access to this option. This will allow MWM some time to have the game out for people to decide if this is the game for them to continue to play or not. It will allow for them to be able to test out things and work out some bugs.

3. I'm perfectly fine on placing restrictions so that certain criteria is met to be able to unlock it. I think the more criteria set may be better as it will mean that somebody will have actually taken the time to actually play the game before having the option to create a character at a certain level.

4. I'm fine with this one too. While yes I'd like to have the option to have a max level character, I'm not opposed to starting a character out at a reasonable level and letting you work your way to max level instead. What that level is, I don't know yet as we don't have a game to measure where people deem is acceptable to advance to.

Now I will address the reasons for not liking it.

1. Okay, that's fine. That's your opinion. I'm not trying to tell you how to play your game or stop you from playing each and every character from 1 to 50 if that's the way you want to play your character. I'm sure there are many people that share your opinion and I'm sure there are many people that also share mine. I'm just asking for the ability to play the game how I'd like to play the game. If you can come up with reasonable reasons as to why this should not be an option other than you just don't like it I'm willing to listen to them and consider it.

2. I can see where this could be a problem. I too do not want to waste developers time on this game. However, I feel like there will still be people who will try to skip content regardless. I feel that there will be people who will stand around spamming "LF PL" no matter what. If a "Mission Creator" is made for the game some people may choose to only run missions from the Mission Creator instead of actually playing the story arcs. There may be people that will also discover the fastest route to play a character from 1 to max level which may make them skip some content as well. So how can we make it so that all the story arcs the devs make is played? Perhaps an Ouroborus mechanic needs to be implemented thereby allowing people to be able to go back and experience some content that they skipped?

3. Let's face it. There will always be some idiot that doesn't know how to play their character. This one I believe is completely unavoidable. Just because you didn't get PL'd to max level doesn't necessarily mean you know how to play your character. There are some people that may have gotten to max level completely on their own without ever teaming and in doing so built their character to their standards of play style to be able to do so. This may not be maximized for team play and therefore will cause issues if they do ever get on a team. There are also people that just don't care how other people would like for them to play and will just play however they feel like playing which may lead to suboptimal team performance. So I really don't see how we can get around this one.

4. I can understand this sentiment as well. However, some people may leave the game anyways because it's simply not for them. It may have too high of an xp curve and getting to a max level character may take too long. It's a delicate balance that needs to be struck to keep retention. Having this as an option that is either unlockable or purchasable may also lead to people staying and playing the game more. Some people do like the end content stuff more than the beginning. So I see this one as a 50/50.

I got chills! They're multiplyin'. And I'm losin' control. Cuz the power, I'm supplyin'. Why it's ELECTRIFYIN'!!

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oOStaticOo wrote:
oOStaticOo wrote:

...
1. Personally, I don't like it.
2. It might create a ghost town for lower level arcs wasting time that the developers placed on creating.
3. It might create an idiot that doesn't know how to play their character.
4. It might make people leave the game faster because they will lose interest in playing the game if they can instantly have a max level character.
...
4. I can understand this sentiment as well. However, some people may leave the game anyways because it's simply not for them. It may have too high of an xp curve and getting to a max level character may take too long. It's a delicate balance that needs to be struck to keep retention. Having this as an option that is either unlockable or purchasable may also lead to people staying and playing the game more. Some people do like the end content stuff more than the beginning. So I see this one as a 50/50.

Those people wont be easy to please in any case.
Also, just like in life... you have to Enjoy the Journey too, not just when you get to your Destination. :)

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Again, I repeat, some people

Again, I repeat, some people do enjoy the journey while others do not. I'm sure there are people out there that would love to have a teleporter to get them from one place to another instantly. There are also those out there that would rather drive 24 hours to reach a point where they can then take a 7 day boat trip to reach their destination so they can enjoy the scenery. One should not take precedence over the other, both should be given their option.

I got chills! They're multiplyin'. And I'm losin' control. Cuz the power, I'm supplyin'. Why it's ELECTRIFYIN'!!

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oOStaticOo wrote:
oOStaticOo wrote:

2. Being available years after launch is fine. However making it available 10 years after launch seems, again, too extreme. I'm fine with waiting maybe 2 or 3 years to have access to this option. This will allow MWM some time to have the game out for people to decide if this is the game for them to continue to play or not. It will allow for them to be able to test out things and work out some bugs.

To play ball with the idea that such a thing might be made available, there are two things to remember.

1. Given what we know so far of the city - it's freakin' huge - we may not have even half the zones available by the time the full level cap is introduced.
2. Alting is going to be one of the primary 'end game' activities.

From this I conclude that MWM will be adding at least as much lower level content as they do max level content. Quite possibly a good deal more lower level content because, let's face it, adding an entire zone that's for characters at the level cap is rather a waste. By the time we have a complete Titan City* it may be possible to level up two or three characters without repeating a mission. Perhaps more, in particular when one takes the hero/villain divide into account.

I also recalling reading, perhaps in a KS update, that MWM intends to have procedurally generated instance maps. This should also help greatly with leveling fatigue.

I would also want to see new content - meaning power sets, classifications in particular - explicitly excluded from such purchases.



* I would be thrilled if this happened in as few as two or three years.

- - - - -
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oOStaticOo wrote:
oOStaticOo wrote:

Again, I repeat, some people do enjoy the journey while others do not. I'm sure there are people out there that would love to have a teleporter to get them from one place to another instantly. There are also those out there that would rather drive 24 hours to reach a point where they can then take a 7 day boat trip to reach their destination so they can enjoy the scenery. One should not take precedence over the other, both should be given their option.

Hmmm... You are right about teleport, it should be an Option people can choose.

But, what im trying to make you get is... just like in Films (or other forms of media), you have to ground the player and make them Care, get them Invested, or else why even do it.

But i feel the teleport example is hinting at something more.. something i dont particularly agree with, that you wont come out and say directly perhaps. You dont totally dislike Pay 2 Win?! If you got the cash, why slog through the mud with the dogs, when you can get what you want much sooner? And dont say "I already have 20 or so level 50's", thats not gonna convince me, unless you rolled more than one level 50 with the EXACT same primary/secondary Powers.

If so, then Sure, you DESERVE to Start a new toon at 50, but with the SAME Primary/secondary, Not with another primary/secondary.

Other combinations, even if they are almost identical (which i doubt), will play differently, which you Cant claim you Earned to play (know from personal experience how they play together).

The Only time I'll agree that you could start a NEW toon from 50 is if you choose the EXACT same Primary/Secondary powersets. But seeing as you've Already Learned exactly how those powersets mesh together and have the Experience and Training in using them, i doubt anyone will want to roll the Exact same (clone) toon. :)

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Fireheart wrote:
Fireheart wrote:

I don't understand Why anyone would want to be max-level. Once you're maxed-out, there's nothing left to do, but roll an Alt. I suppose you could endlessly repeat the last couple of TFs... Sounds boring.

I had a pair friends I made the last few years playing the game that were in the "game begins at 50 crowd) To them the game to them was about putting togeather a build and playing the hell out of it. Many of their characters weren't even IO'd out (except for a KB protection global). They would go for the accolades, run TFs, Incarnate trials etc. They didn't mind exempting down and loosing powers to do this either. That doesn't mean they didn't love playing the game, they even had two accounts each (both fully subbed even after freedom) and spent a ton on the store.

Although I myself enjoy the journey from newbie hero to overpowered incarnate, I too enjoyed playing my 50s. It just depended on what mood I was in or what was going on when I logged in. The two of them were a bit surprised I still enjoyed playing content after five+ years of playing we both respected our play styles and desiers. There was room for both kinds of players in CoH, I see no reason we can't have both in CoT.

oOStaticOo wrote:

Here are the reasons why people are not okay with this idea.
1. Personally, I don't like it.
2. It might create a ghost town for lower level arcs wasting time that the developers placed on creating.
3. It might create an idiot that doesn't know how to play their character.
4. It might make people leave the game faster because they will lose interest in playing the game if they can instantly have a max level character.

1. From the experiance I've had playing level based games for the past twenty three years I do have some personal issues with the idea, but I freely admit it is my own bias. As I said above I respect peoples oppinions about when the game realy starts. It's funny for me, because I have no issue with boosting the speed at which one levels. You'd find me logged on on every DXP weekend and I kept most of my characters logged out of police stations to get the compleation bonus day job power. If the ability was added I'd rather it not be max level, though how high it should go would really be up for debate.

2. I'm not really concerned about this. First of all you have people like me who are going to want to level up through content. Then you will have new players coming into the low level zones (at least I hope we can continue to draw in new players as time goes by). And how many high level characters are going to be hanging out helping low/new players through the early stages of the game? I hardly expect the low-level areas would become ghost towns, but their probably would be a decrease in players there even without instant levels.

3. The people who would by buying the instint levels are the ones who will have a grasp on the basics of playing the game. Personaly, I never played a fire controller/dominator (never got around to it). However if I was given a free trip to 50 I would have a pretty good idea how to play one bassed off other controlers/dominators I have played. I might run a few radio missions at defult difficulty before I jump on an ITF or LGTF to get a firm handle on it, but I would hardly be lost. I know someone is going to mention the AE babies, but if there is an unlocking requierment for buing instant levels you won't have a brand new player at a high level with absolutely no Idea haow to run them in normal content.

4. This is a tricky one, and the only one I would really wory about. Obviously, people like my friends wouldn't be leaving the game because of it, they played from Issue 1 to sunset and were still rolling alts. On the other hand, it could leed to premature boredom with the game. There will always be people who grow borded with games and walk away, either for a break or for good, but it is better for the health of the game (and the bank accounts of MWM) if they stay as long as possible. This may be helped by releasing instant levels later in the game's cycle.

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I have had one of every AT

I have had one of every AT from CoH except for Blaster and Warshade to level 50. Most of those were Electricity based characters. Elec/Elec, Elec/Nin, Elec/SD, Elec/Emp, Elec/Inv, etc. I am not trying to hint at Pay 2 Win. I think you are assuming that I will never play a character from 1 to 50 if I'm given the option to not do so by starting a character either at max level or X level. That is not the case at all. I have friends who love playing lower level stuff, I have friends that love playing end game content stuff, I have friends that sometimes want to duo characters from 1 to 50 together, I have friends that start "project teams" and start at level 1 and work to max level. I care very deeply for each and every character I make. They all have to have the right look, name, and powers for me to play otherwise I will just delete them. Only having multiple characters of the exact same powers doesn't mean I know how to play every character in the game, it only means I know how to play one. So why doesn't having 20 max level characters of different AT's mean I don't know how to play every AT in the game? On the contrary I think it would mean that I have an idea on how to play every AT. Sure not every powerset it going to play the same way, but that doesn't mean they don't have some kind of similarity in play style so I disagree with your assessment that I don't know how I should be able to play every AT if I've managed to make 1 of every AT to max level.

I got chills! They're multiplyin'. And I'm losin' control. Cuz the power, I'm supplyin'. Why it's ELECTRIFYIN'!!

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Hello, everyone. Very

Hello, everyone. Very interesting discussion here.

I'm sure there will be a variety of player types in CoT, and that's a good thing. Personally, I like stories, but others may be about combat, or any number of other motivations. It's our job to provide the features (including stories) that will interest everyone.That's quite a challenge, and we will give it our best.

I'm not taking a position on Static's suggestion, but the topic is relevant if just for for the broader discussion of what brings someone into a game and what makes them stay. I suspect that will be an ongoing topic, and one we may not fully understand until the game has been in operation for a while.

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Terlin

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I dont see any problem with

I dont see any problem with it, charging 5 or 10 dollars for an instant max level, granted i would like to see at least a "must already have a max level to be able to buy this item" stipulation. Not something i could see myself ever using but im sure there are are those out there who would be glad to see it available.

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In 1924 George Mallory

In 1924 George Mallory attempted, for the third time, to climb Mount Everest. He and his climbing partner, Sandy Irvine disappeared into the clouds 800 vertical feet below the summit of the mountain, and were never seen alive again. Nobody knows for certain to this day if the two ever reached the summit before they died. In the lead-up the expedition in 1924 that would ultimately claim his life, Mallory was raising money for the climb, and was asked by many people, including a New York Times reporter "Why do you want to climb Mount Everest?" Mallory, to whom the question sounded pretty inane, replied simply "Because it's there."

There seem to be some people among us in these forums who would have replied "If they air-drop me onto the top of the mountain, can we count that as 'climbing' it? Can I pay more money to have OTHER people drag me to the top and still claim that I 'climbed' the mountain? Mountain climbing sucks if you have to actually do all the tedious 'climbing' parts at the lower altitudes yourself, I just want that fun part at the end where you get to do your 'Rocky' impression at the top, throw your fists up in the air and bask in the glory and adoration of the crowd."

I don't see any reason to give petulant children what they're crying for and just give them free level 50 to shut them up. F&#k that. If anything, I think there should be a better effort made to prevent PLing and ensure that people can't just skip content. If that isn't really possible, I still don't want the devs to make an "Easy Button" option of any kind.

You have to play the game for it to be fun for you. Skipping that or getting someone else to play it for you is a self-defeating act. It's like saying to your friend "I can't get the replay on this pinball machine, can you get the replay for me?" Nobody can get the replay "for you", you have to do that by yourself or it's invalid and empty, and I dare say you're not "having fun playing pinball" if you're doing that. Your friend might be, but you're not.

R.S.O. of Phoenix Rising

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I understand you're 100% for

oOStaticOo, I understand you're 100% for digging through content, and earning several max level characters the way the game intended. I don't think at all you want the easy way out. I think people reading should understand this to get to your point. It is an interesting concept to be able to get a maxed out character you've never played due to your long term patronage. Tons of people would use it, tons of people would never use it, people who said they'd never use it would use it. If I ever used it, I believe I wouldn't have any attachment to that character--which kind of sucks, but I don't believe having this option in only the hands of seasoned veterans wouldn't be the end of the game. I'm thinking once you fill the requirements to gain the token, then it's only available once a year or perhaps after another extensive set of requirements are fulfilled. I think the option to cash in the token for a considerable amount of influence should be available for those who could benefit their current toons.

I'm not sure what the ramifications would be if people had the taste of an instant max lvl though. Everyone would be different, but I'm still wondering what people would do after playing that 50 for a week, taking in the entirety of the power sets, and potentially learning nothing new.

5 OClock Shadow
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Ultimately, I'm with Radiac.

Ultimately, I'm with Radiac. Don't want to play through the game one day, then just don't play it.

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Interdictor
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Ultimately I don't think this

Ultimately I don't think this is a very good idea. I'm not going to go on a long spiel on why because I think others have done a good job above, but personally I just can't understand why people want to "skip the game"?

CoH was never about the "endgame" and IIRC the CoT devs have stated the focus will not be on the "endgame" here either (there will likely be stuff to do - just that the focus will be on the "levelling game" content). I mean we don't even know what there will be to do at max level in this game - and people are already asking for an automatic "max level/I win" button? Weird.

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At first blush, the idea of

At first blush, the idea of an "Instant Max Level" is vaguely disquieting for me. I don't have a concrete reason, I freely admit. Maybe it's that I come from the generation before you got a trophy just for showing up. It should be pointed out, whether it affects you or your gameplay personally, most of the concerns expressed about "n00bMaxers" could hurt the game's reputation, and therefore it's ability to attract players.

Radiac seems to be willing to heap restrictions on this token, and I'm for that, at the very least. How about a compromise? I'd propose that once you have achieved X number of Level Capped characters and/or logged X hours of game play, you can, for XXX dollars purchase a token that allows you to start a new character at HALF the level cap. This shortens the grind for those that want the end game, but requires SOME amount of play before you can claim you've capped the character.

I also agree that this option shouldn't appear until some extended time after launch.

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IF there is a content

IF there is a content sidekicking system where I can do all the game content at its designed level with increased difficulty I'm all for it.

I hate any game where I have 2 powers from my final build for 90% of the game. Not to mention CoTs release is planned with a lack of endgame (at launch).. So i'll be spending alot of time as a character named Kontrol who doesn't have Kontrol's powers/abilities.. not something I'm particularly interested in.

If I could load up the game and just BE Kontrol from day 1 I'd pay for it because the alternative is that I'm getting all dressed up with no where to go.

- -

IF there is no such system where content can be done COMPETITIVELY at level 30 even the tutorial then it definitely is a content killer, particularly because, as I stated above, there will not be much endgame planned for launch.. so you are once again all dressed up for your funeral.

- -

As a side note I'm a crowd controller in Wildstar currently about mid level (25) and I only have like 2 actual crowd control powers. People keep calling me a "healer" when my final build is supposed to be anything but. This is the experience I seek to avoid. I am a crowd controller.. I don't want to have to be a DPS dealer or Healer for the majority of my play experience until I reach level 45 of 50.

I expect, with dedicated roles in CoT, SOME of this problem will be alleviated but the main point remains.. I have a concept I am trying to play. I am hoping I don't have to wait until endgame to get where I'm trying to go.

Crowd Control Enthusiast

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oOStaticOo wrote:
oOStaticOo wrote:

I have had one of every AT from CoH except for Blaster and Warshade to level 50. Most of those were Electricity based characters. Elec/Elec, Elec/Nin, Elec/SD, Elec/Emp, Elec/Inv, etc. I am not trying to hint at Pay 2 Win. I think you are assuming that I will never play a character from 1 to 50 if I'm given the option to not do so by starting a character either at max level or X level. That is not the case at all. I have friends who love playing lower level stuff, I have friends that love playing end game content stuff, I have friends that sometimes want to duo characters from 1 to 50 together, I have friends that start "project teams" and start at level 1 and work to max level. I care very deeply for each and every character I make. They all have to have the right look, name, and powers for me to play otherwise I will just delete them. Only having multiple characters of the exact same powers doesn't mean I know how to play every character in the game, it only means I know how to play one. So why doesn't having 20 max level characters of different AT's mean I don't know how to play every AT in the game? On the contrary I think it would mean that I have an idea on how to play every AT. Sure not every powerset it going to play the same way, but that doesn't mean they don't have some kind of similarity in play style so I disagree with your assessment that I don't know how I should be able to play every AT if I've managed to make 1 of every AT to max level.

Just because I know Judo, doesnt mean i can just pick up Taekwondo. :/

Anyways, I wasnt talking about You (or anyone else) not being sharp enough to pick up on how a powerset might work that you never played before (but you might already have). It was more of a rif on DESERVING, or better yet EARNING it.

And i consider leveling up a toon to 50 as Earning the Right to that or those powerset(s).

Ehhh, think if it as getting a specific Powerset Badge. And the only way you can roll a new toon to auto level 50 is if you pick from a list of Powersets that you already EARNED badges on. :)
ex:
you lvled your Fire/Kin troller to 50.
you lvled your Mind/Rad troller to 50.
now.. you can roll a 50 with Fire/Rad, Mind/Kin also, since you already Earned (got a badge for) those powersets.

I'm only against it because it might attract the Wrong kind of players, and maybe even give the impression that its a Pay 2 Win game. :/

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Personally, I am against this

Personally, I am against this idea, at least taking it up to level cap. Although saying that, I can see as to why Blizzard are doing this as well.

They are charging $60 for the right to take *ONE* character to Level 90. This could be a new character, or an existing character. Sure, right now the level cap is 90, but when Warlords of Draenor launches, the level cap will be increased to 100. And in terms of levelling speed, starting NOW I can get a character to level cap *faster* than I could back in vanilla times. And even with this levelling speed discrepency, it still "isn't fast enough" for some people.

So for something similar for CoT, I would say something like $40/$45 to take a character to level 40... once the game has 50 levels in it, and if not at least a couple of years later on. This price is high enough for people to at least think twice about it... and it is also cheaper than the $50 that Champions Online charges for their freeform slots ;)

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4) I have seen more intelligence from an NPC AI in TR beta, than from most MMO players.

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While l can't really

While l can't really understand why anyone would want to "skip the game" as Interdictor said, I don't mind if others want to do this as long as its price means that MWM won't lose money on the deal. If the game were subscription only, the average amount of time it took to reach max lvl could be translated into an amount vis a vis subscription cost, but since CoT will have a non-sub option, I'm not sure how they would calculate the possible missed opportunities to entice a player into buying stuff in the store if characters could be rushed to max. In general, I'd support the various restrictions mentioned above as well as Gangrel's pricing suggestions, as a precaution to ensure that it didn't undermine MWM's income strategy centred around "standard" play.

Spurn all ye kindle.

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I'd like to thank everybody

I'd like to thank everybody for their input on this topic. I'm sorry if I came across as a "petulant child that is crying for a level 50 just so I can be shut up", as someone so eloquently put it. That was not my intention. I am merely trying to come up with a plausible solution to something that might be of interest to many players that come to this game. I hope I did not make anybody feel like I was trying to detract from their style of play.

I am all for playing the game and experiencing everything MWM has to offer for CoT. I take a lot of pride in each and every character I make or will make for CoT. I too want MWM to be able to reap all the benefits and profits they possibly can to make this game a successful game. I would just like to have everybody keep an open mind about this and see if there is any way we can all come to some form of a mutual agreement on how we could make this possible if MWM were to implement this into CoT.

I too, do not want somebody being able to abuse this ability. I too, do not want to see rampant PL'ing in CoT. I too, want CoT to be extremely successful and attract many people to play. I just also want to make sure we cater to the needs and wants of many people that come to this game in hopes that it will help MWM retain more players and revenue. While I am aware that this is not something that everybody will like or agree upon, I would like to try to put personal feelings aside and come up with rational and logical reasons as to either how this could be done or why it should not be done.

That's all I ask. Give us good reasons as to why this is either a good idea or a bad idea and discuss the pros and cons of it. Not just shove it aside because "I just don't like it."

I got chills! They're multiplyin'. And I'm losin' control. Cuz the power, I'm supplyin'. Why it's ELECTRIFYIN'!!

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Cinnder wrote:
Cinnder wrote:

While l can't really understand why anyone would want to "skip the game" as Interdictor said, I don't mind if others want to do this as long as its price means that MWM won't lose money on the deal. If the game were subscription only, the average amount of time it took to reach max lvl could be translated into an amount vis a vis subscription cost, but since CoT will have a non-sub option, I'm not sure how they would calculate the possible missed opportunities to entice a player into buying stuff in the store if characters could be rushed to max. In general, I'd support the various restrictions mentioned above as well as Gangrel's pricing suggestions, as a precaution to ensure that it didn't undermine MWM's income strategy centred around "standard" play.

The reason why I came up with this price (which is along the same lines as WoW's to be honest), is that is equivalent to 3 or 4 months of sub fee. Which when you get down to it was about the *approximate* number of hours that the "average" player would put into a game to get to level cap (about 2-3 hours a day, 5 days a week), so that equates to roughly 120 to 160 hours from start to cap. This is about what I put into my Warrior on WoW when I levelled him up when I returned for Mists of Pandaria.

Now if it took the "average" player 400 hours to get to level cap, then I wouldn't actually increase the price, because it would be too much, but between $45 and $60 is in the "sweet spot" for something like this. If it was significantly cheaper, it would be getting into the "impulse buy" area (which I would say has an upper limit of about $20), any more expensive, then you might as well not have it. That is not to say that people WONT buy it, but you might not be able to make as much off it as you could if it was cheaper.

Quote:

1) I reject your reality.... and substitute my own
2) Not to be used when upset... will void warranty
3) Stoke me a clipper i will be back for dinner
4) I have seen more intelligence from an NPC AI in TR beta, than from most MMO players.

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I would be on board for a

I would be on board for a price of $45 to purchase a one time token to create a X level character that was close to the level cap. I see that as a reasonable price that is not too high or too low.

I got chills! They're multiplyin'. And I'm losin' control. Cuz the power, I'm supplyin'. Why it's ELECTRIFYIN'!!

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Fireheart wrote:
Fireheart wrote:

I don't understand Why anyone would want to be max-level. Once you're maxed-out, there's nothing left to do, but roll an Alt. I suppose you could endlessly repeat the last couple of TFs... Sounds boring.
Be Well!
Fireheart

The reason I quit City of Heroes was because of the Incarnate system. It was kind of cool being able to further bump your 50's, but the grind requirements made it so arduous that all my 50s that were "finished" became undone. I had them perfected with their build, with their enhancements, costumes, everything. To me, they were works of art that suddenly became undone.

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Jordan_yen wrote:
Jordan_yen wrote:

Fireheart wrote:
I don't understand Why anyone would want to be max-level. Once you're maxed-out, there's nothing left to do, but roll an Alt. I suppose you could endlessly repeat the last couple of TFs... Sounds boring.
Be Well!
Fireheart

The reason I quit City of Heroes was because of the Incarnate system. It was kind of cool being able to further bump your 50's, but the grind requirements made it so arduous that all my 50s that were "finished" became undone. I had them perfected with their build, with their enhancements, costumes, everything. To me, they were works of art that suddenly became undone.

I understand how you feel, but I'd point out that you had vast amounts of time invested in your characters, Jordan. You were enjoying the culmination of the journey, rather than just skipping to the end.

For myself, the Incarnate powers allowed my character to be more like 'himself', since I built to reinforce his existing Invulnerability Tanker goodness. And I was playing out the story-lines, so it was never a 'grind' of the same old stuff.

I doubt you or I would have the same feelings about our high-level characters, if we could just buy them.

Be Well!
Fireheart

PS: How's the comic doing? Are you still drawing? Stop in at the Media Sharing thread and say 'hi'!
http://cityoftitans.com/forum/say-hi-get-welcomed

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Or perhaps you'd be more

Or perhaps you'd be more attached to a character you bought maximum level for because you invested so much money into it. Just a flip side to that coin. Just because you feel that the only worth a character has is in the journey to max level doesn't mean someone else does. Again, I ask that you put personal feelings aside on this matter and use rational and logical reasoning behind your comments as to why this isn't a good thing. Show me statistics that show that purchasing such an ability is detrimental to the game, where it causes the company to lose customers and money. Show me scales that show the amount of time that someone spends in a game playing from level 1 to max level vs. someone buying a max level character. Please stop belittling something just because you don't agree with it. That doesn't help solve anything.

I got chills! They're multiplyin'. And I'm losin' control. Cuz the power, I'm supplyin'. Why it's ELECTRIFYIN'!!

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Seems like I'd be more

Seems like I'd be more obligated to play him rather than attached.

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So you feel more obligated to

So you feel more obligated to live in a completed house you just bought as compared to being attached to one you built from the ground up by your own two hands?

I got chills! They're multiplyin'. And I'm losin' control. Cuz the power, I'm supplyin'. Why it's ELECTRIFYIN'!!

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oOStaticOo wrote:
oOStaticOo wrote:

So you feel more obligated to live in a completed house you just bought as compared to being attached to one you built from the ground up by your own two hands?

I doubt I'd feel overly "obligated" to live in a house I just bought just because I bought it ready-made, especially if it was (at least to me) so relatively cheap that it was practically an impulse buy of little intrinsic value to me. Things that come too easy to people tend to be the things that are not cherished in the long run.

If houses (or more specifically instantly maxed characters) are too easy to obtain then they not only become relatively valueless in and of themselves but they pretty much undermine the value of leveling up characters the "old fashioned" way by simply playing the game directly. Try to see this from the point of view of someone who might not want to instantly max out characters: if it became relatively trivial to buy a cheapish token for this wouldn't it be dumb for anyone not to do that? I don't want anyone to have to feel dumb and/or like they are needlessly self-gimping themselves for not buying the max level tokens everyone else is using.

This is why I'm in favor of making sure these tokens (if they ever exist) remain desirable only as a sort of "last resort" option instead of being the first thing everyone uses as their primary way to play.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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I can see as to why some

I can see as to why some people were annoyed when Incarnate content came out, but to me, it finally gave me something to do with my 50's. I am not a huge fan of alting, I do it when there are *game mechanics* as to why it would be handy (ie crafting limitations).

If Incarnate content came out *sooner*, instead of what turned out to be towards the *end* of its life, I don't think there would have been as much of an uproar. Sure there would have been complaints, there were always complaints concerning most changes in the game, but I think it would have been better overall.

Quote:

1) I reject your reality.... and substitute my own
2) Not to be used when upset... will void warranty
3) Stoke me a clipper i will be back for dinner
4) I have seen more intelligence from an NPC AI in TR beta, than from most MMO players.

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I think I am being a little

I think I am being a little bit misunderstood here. I too have leveled characters from 1 to 50 and am against people having easy access to Power Leveling. I am not against placing restrictions to being able to unlock or purchase the ability to make a character a certain level. I'm not sure why people aren't getting this. Obviously it would not be a good idea to make it too easy to be able to do this and obviously it would be stupid for a person to not use something like that if it were so easily and readily obtainable. Which is why I'm asking what would be reasonable to restrict such an ability.

X amount of hours played. i.e. 600 hours actual game time.
X amount of hours played mixed amongst all AT's or Powersets.
X amount of max level characters.
X amount of max level characters amongst all AT's or Powersets.
X amount of badges obtained throughout the game that cannot be bought.
X amount of dollars between 0 and 100 that seems reasonable as a purchase from the Cash Store.
X amount of years after launch, within a reasonable time frame giving the life of most MMO's and player retention.
Any combination of above restrictions mixed together. (The more the better imo.)
Any restriction that may have been listed that I didn't list here, or one that hasn't been mentioned yet.

I'm not saying that this is something that should be available to us immediately upon launch. I'm just asking what it would take to possibly implement this if the devs ever should decide to do so. Just saying "Because I don't like it!" or "It's all about the journey not the destination." or "I never liked any of the end content, I mostly enjoyed lower level content." doesn't cut it for me. Some people do like this idea. Some people take extreme pride in purchasing something and having it, either more so or just as much as someone who built something rather than buying it. For some people the end content was their favorite part of the game. Also to help keep this in a little more perspective, I would not be the one purchasing this ability. My funds are limited as is, so buying something that is extra and somewhat rather expensive, to me, would be something I'd have to plan for and save up to get.

I got chills! They're multiplyin'. And I'm losin' control. Cuz the power, I'm supplyin'. Why it's ELECTRIFYIN'!!

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I apologize for the fact that

I apologize for the fact that all I can tell you on these forum posts is my own personal opinion. I can't show you a mathematical proof that an "Easy Button" won't work and I can't tell you what anyone else thinks. I can only reflect my own personal likes and dislikes on any of the matters concerning this game here, that's all. If "I don't like it." is not enough for you, I'm sorry, but it's all you're going to get from me. I can't truly say "Other people won't like it." or "It's physically impossible." or "It will cause the downfall of western civilization as we know it." I can only tell you whether I personally would want the game to have it or not, and I don't.

R.S.O. of Phoenix Rising

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Hell no to the idea of giving

Hell no to the idea of giving access to an 'instant max-level' option in any way, shape, or form.

Also, the solution to reducing grind is a simple one: have so much content at every given level range that nobody will be able to complete it all without outlevelling it on a single character without turning off experience altogether.

Simple, perfect, and easily doable.

Someone that doesn't want to play the same missions they did before can easily take a different set of content and get a completely different set of stories with different enemies. Grind is reduced because you are playing the game to play the game rather than playing the game to 'get to that next level.'

Someone that wants to play every single mission option available now has that much more content to do and that much more potential fun to have doing it.

Anyone that has a problem with this solution being not enough clearly plays games for the wrong reason. The main reason it's called a 'grind' in most games is because those games have set paths and things that must be done to do other things or to get other things. You need to grind a dungeon to get the gear you need (which is not guaranteed since 99% of the time they're randomly determined) because nothing you need drops randomly. You need to grind another dungeon with the gear you got from the first to even have a chance at completing yet another dungeon which is needed for ANOTHER FREAKING DUNGEON.

The simple solution is very easy: Make the game fun and require that no one single action need to be taken before the player can do something they are in the level range for. make Mission-giving NPC's only check alignments and level range before offering missions or refusing them based on the character's reputation. If I'm level 35 and Dr. Insano offers missions for levels 33-37, then I'm good to go as long as my reputation doesn't block me.

Similarly if a mission chain is known to have a certain desired reward at its end (Normal mission story type OR task force style) then don't make that the ONLY way to get the reward. This is where Incarnates kinda fell apart as there were so few ways to do things and still make progress that was faster than glacial. I, personally, found the trials quite enjoyable (yes, even Keyes Island) and never found any of the tf's to be less than fun (except Old Positron) so very little of the game felt like a grind before that point in the low 30's when you were too low to solo in the RWZ but no missions were really engaging. That's what teaming with the SSK system was for though! Join a lower-level team and help them doing something you know (or something you missed) while gaining experience as if you were running one of the boring things at that low-30's stage.

Make everything Fun. Easiest way to eliminate grind. Grind is only there when there are things in between you and fun. If someone can only have fun at max level they're an idiot and are missing the point of playing a game.

The original Lady of Ysgard. -Virtue

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On the topic of PLing. I've

On the topic of PLing. I've mentioned it in the past, mostly on the old forums, to make the majority of the experience he given upon mission completion. Say you need 1,000,000 experience to get from 1-50, 800,000 of that should be from mission completion. Since mission completion is the best way to level then the fastest way to level is to play the game content instead of PLing the same mission without completing it. When this is achieved then the best way to powerlevel is to play with the low level while being exemplared to rush the low level through the missions faster but because of the exemplar the speed in which a person can complete kill x amount of targets is slowed. Missions that are "just glowie" (easy) mission can't be helped once the higher level gets stealth, SS, etc.

This is how Neverwinter and possible other games handle it and so far no true way to PL other than doing the missions for the low level.

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"If someone can only have fun

"If someone can only have fun at max level they're an idiot and are missing the point of playing a game." This is an idiotic statement and only subjective to the person who says it. Your idea of fun sir is not my idea of fun and vice-versa. To boldly claim that you know what is supposed to be fun is arrogant on your part. I am not coming on here and bashing other's play style or idea of fun. I'd appreciate it if you didn't do the same.

I got chills! They're multiplyin'. And I'm losin' control. Cuz the power, I'm supplyin'. Why it's ELECTRIFYIN'!!

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AlienMafia wrote:
AlienMafia wrote:

On the topic of PLing. I've mentioned it in the past, mostly on the old forums, to make the majority of the experience he given upon mission completion. Say you need 1,000,000 experience to get from 1-50, 800,000 of that should be from mission completion. Since mission completion is the best way to level then the fastest way to level is to play the game content instead of PLing the same mission without completing it. When this is achieved then the best way to powerlevel is to play with the low level while being exemplared to rush the low level through the missions faster but because of the exemplar the speed in which a person can complete kill x amount of targets is slowed. Missions that are "just glowie" (easy) mission can't be helped once the higher level gets stealth, SS, etc.
This is how Neverwinter and possible other games handle it and so far no true way to PL other than doing the missions for the low level.

And this can be a disaster if you have a mission you simply can't do as a dedicated soloist so you have to skip it, then to level up to qualify for the next zone you have to kill 10K critters to advance instead of doing the following 5 missions.

Provided you can use the AE equivalent to sort that issue out, I have less of a problem with it.

PLing in NW was done via their AE equivalent till it was seriously nerfed. Make a mission full of ogres, stick them on a narrow bridge, repel them off the bridge killing them with falling damage ...

Tech Team and Forum Moderator

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I understand that there are

I understand that there are personal opinions and that each individual has what they deem a right and wrong way of doing something. I don't want anybody to think that I am not hearing anything that is being said. I applaud you for standing up for your beliefs. I'm glad you have a sense of what you feel is the proper way to do things.

However, I do ask that you try to keep an open mind about this as there are also people out there that have the opposite thinking and feeling as well. Instead of just saying "No! Hell no!! No way in freaking hell, should this be allowed!!!" try to think about how it could be a possibility and if it is what exactly would be the best way to implement it in such a way as that it's not taken advantage of or abused. I'm not saying that you have to like it or use it, just what it would take for you to be somewhat comfortable with it being a possible option. Try not to just knee jerk react to it.

I got chills! They're multiplyin'. And I'm losin' control. Cuz the power, I'm supplyin'. Why it's ELECTRIFYIN'!!

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Minotaur wrote:
Minotaur wrote:

AlienMafia wrote:
On the topic of PLing. I've mentioned it in the past, mostly on the old forums, to make the majority of the experience he given upon mission completion. Say you need 1,000,000 experience to get from 1-50, 800,000 of that should be from mission completion. Since mission completion is the best way to level then the fastest way to level is to play the game content instead of PLing the same mission without completing it. When this is achieved then the best way to powerlevel is to play with the low level while being exemplared to rush the low level through the missions faster but because of the exemplar the speed in which a person can complete kill x amount of targets is slowed. Missions that are "just glowie" (easy) mission can't be helped once the higher level gets stealth, SS, etc.
This is how Neverwinter and possible other games handle it and so far no true way to PL other than doing the missions for the low level.

And this can be a disaster if you have a mission you simply can't do as a dedicated soloist so you have to skip it, then to level up to qualify for the next zone you have to kill 10K critters to advance instead of doing the following 5 missions.
Provided you can use the AE equivalent to sort that issue out, I have less of a problem with it.
PLing in NW was done via their AE equivalent till it was seriously nerfed. Make a mission full of ogres, stick them on a narrow bridge, repel them off the bridge killing them with falling damage ...

Only foundry (NW's AE) was PLable but thats the fault of the devs just like the fault AE was in CoX. And NW's flaw is not the distributution of XP mission complete/enemies but the lack of mission in zones. Since CoT is built similar to CoX, this will mean there is plenty of missions to do to level. You could complete a zone and not play everthing so if this same concept used again with an adjustment on xp distribution would be awesome. I just think there needs to be some serious thought into how to prevent PLing at all possible like trying to stop a hacker (need to close the ability to PL). I think the distribution of XP is a legitament option that needs testing to see where the line is 60/40, 50/50, 70/30, etc. and vise-versa.

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Static, what you've described

Static, what you've described is is certainly a sort of 'exhausting' the mission content, by playing several characters to 50. But then you move away from 'playing the game' into the meta-game of using the game resources to reach 22 or 35 as quickly as possible and then grinding the remaining levels to 50 on a single set of content. You've made 'getting to 50' the goal, instead of 'playing the game'.

You've asked us to supply mathematical data to support our rejection of this 'Buy a 50' plan. You seem to scoff when we don't do so and only respond with 'I don't like it'. And you have yet to offer a reason why being max-level is a worthwhile thing. Why would you pay for it?

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oOStaticOo wrote:
oOStaticOo wrote:

"If someone can only have fun at max level they're an idiot and are missing the point of playing a game." This is an idiotic statement and only subjective to the person who says it. Your idea of fun sir is not my idea of fun and vice-versa. To boldly claim that you know what is supposed to be fun is arrogant on your part. I am not coming on here and bashing other's play style or idea of fun. I'd appreciate it if you didn't do the same.

Fine, you want a non-blanket statement that fully refutes the idea of buying access to maximum level no matter the price?

It removes any sense of accomplishment.

Allow me to elaborate a little bit. Reaching 50 was an accomplishment. Your character has finished advancing and growing in power and is now only limited by how refined their build is, barring Incarnate powers as those were a separate path of advancement. I leveled the hard way, only rarely dipping into PL missions because I needed a few quick levels. I earned my VEAT before the level requirement dropped to 20, and my first 50 was a Necro/Pain Mastermind.

My VEAT flipped to Heroside ASAP, and dinged 50 on an STF while getting the last hit on Recluse. That is a moment of awesome that is hard to repeat as far as character story goes, and a situation like that feels like a genuine accomplishment, that you did something awesome with your character.

If I could have just shelled out a dollar per level or something like that, that removes any sense of accomplishment from everything anyone does on their way to the limit. When power can be bought in a game it becomes pay to win even if there's no tangible difference between an earned max and a bought max. All sense of accomplishment is thrown out the window when someone else can turn around and say "Why are you bothering to grind man, being at max is everything that matters and the only thing you should care about." when they PAID for their character to reach that level instead of actually playing the game and earning the right to play their character at that level.

Someone that can buy a max-level character makes the fact that my characters will be doing awesome stuff on their way to the top by actually playing the game utterly meaningless because the entire game then becomes all about the max level because the people that BOUGHT THEIR WAY TO THE TOP will be whining and bitching and crying about how they have nothing to DO because the developers are focusing on filling out this level range or that one that seems lacking in content or tweaking the difficulty on this or that low-level mission that seems to have more than the average number of complaints about it being too hard for the range it's in rather than focusing on stuff for people who cheated themselves out of a meaningful experience by buying a giant sack of empty dreams that there would be a massive glut of content that magically only appears once you pop that final bubble and see 'maximum Level' on the screen.

If anyone can buy a '50' then there is no reason to actually play the game. This statement is true no matter the cost involved.

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I believe I have given you

I believe I have given you reasons why I think it's a good thing.

1.) It can be another source of income for MWM if it were placed in the cash store at a reasonable price.
2.) There are people out there that prefer the end game content over the beginning game content.
3.) There are people that after having achieved a certain amount of max level characters get tired of the slog from level 1 to 50 and look for ways to speed up the process.
4.) It can be another way to cut out Power Leveling being offered for real money from third parties that are cutting into MWM's profits.

I do understand what people say when they say there is a sense of accomplishment from going from 1 to max level. I get that. While there may not be the same sense of accomplishment if you were to buy it, there is still some form of pride involved in having it. People take pride in the things they buy and love them just as much as well. The example of the house proves that. I bought my house, I didn't build it myself, and take great pride in it. I continue to make improvements to it and add things to it to make it what I want it to be. The same goes with a character if I were to buy it. I'd take pride in having it because I bought it and I'd tweak the look of it, add enhancements to it, change it up in different ways to make it better.

To tell me that just because I bought a character I won't appreciate it is wrong. That is your opinion, and you are entitled to it, but it is not mine nor is it other's. How does me buying a max level character diminish yours? You took the time and effort to level it up, to make it everything you want it to be. How would you know that mine was bought instead of leveled? There wouldn't be any indication unless I told you I bought it. Does me buying my house make your house any less of a house because you built yours?

You are also assuming that "Everybody" will be trying to go for max level if this were available. As proven by the many people that keep saying it's all about the journey and taking pride in accomplishing getting your character to max level on your own, I don't see this. As said by the Developers they are not trying to focus on End Game content, but instead trying to make Alting the end game. I think you are also just assuming that there won't be any restrictions to being able to purchase a max level or unlock the ability to create a max level character. I'm trying to ensure that there are restrictions for this, if it were ever implemented.

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Well, as you might (or might

Well, as you might (or might not) already know, there wont be too much for Max Level characters to do. At least for a few years down the line.

I'm just guessing that the amount of content will scale with the range of levels.

ex:

And if MWM can at least do this (which is still too much to be honest for the CoT release), it would be awesome in of itself. (the Blue/Actual missions count)

So, i would assume that it will be a very very long time (4+ years maybe, after release) before Max Level/End Game content will get anywhere near enough to please Max Level Campers (the Orange/Expected missions count). :)

And BTW.. the phrase Max Level Campers wasnt meant as an endearing term. ;) Its for those Greek Gods like Zeus (well, if you can buy a lvl 50 token.. you can also be an Insta-God) that want to Watch and belittle the puny insignificant halflings, supers, and mere mortals.

Hmm, but i can bet even SOME greek gods came down from Mnt. Olimpus and lived among humans too, not having to feel ALL POWERFUL. ;)

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AlienMafia wrote:
AlienMafia wrote:

Minotaur wrote:
AlienMafia wrote:
On the topic of PLing. I've mentioned it in the past, mostly on the old forums, to make the majority of the experience he given upon mission completion. Say you need 1,000,000 experience to get from 1-50, 800,000 of that should be from mission completion. Since mission completion is the best way to level then the fastest way to level is to play the game content instead of PLing the same mission without completing it. When this is achieved then the best way to powerlevel is to play with the low level while being exemplared to rush the low level through the missions faster but because of the exemplar the speed in which a person can complete kill x amount of targets is slowed. Missions that are "just glowie" (easy) mission can't be helped once the higher level gets stealth, SS, etc.
This is how Neverwinter and possible other games handle it and so far no true way to PL other than doing the missions for the low level.

And this can be a disaster if you have a mission you simply can't do as a dedicated soloist so you have to skip it, then to level up to qualify for the next zone you have to kill 10K critters to advance instead of doing the following 5 missions.
Provided you can use the AE equivalent to sort that issue out, I have less of a problem with it.
PLing in NW was done via their AE equivalent till it was seriously nerfed. Make a mission full of ogres, stick them on a narrow bridge, repel them off the bridge killing them with falling damage ...

Only foundry (NW's AE) was PLable but thats the fault of the devs just like the fault AE was in CoX. And NW's flaw is not the distributution of XP mission complete/enemies but the lack of mission in zones. Since CoT is built similar to CoX, this will mean there is plenty of missions to do to level. You could complete a zone and not play everthing so if this same concept used again with an adjustment on xp distribution would be awesome. I just think there needs to be some serious thought into how to prevent PLing at all possible like trying to stop a hacker (need to close the ability to PL). I think the distribution of XP is a legitament option that needs testing to see where the line is 60/40, 50/50, 70/30, etc. and vise-versa.

I have no special knowledge on how we're doing this, but most games release with not much more content than you need to do to level up. CoH was like that, I had to street sweep my first 50 38-40 which would be incredibly tedious under the sort of XP regime you propose.

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Yes I am aware that at launch

Yes I am aware that at launch we will not be anywhere near having a fully completed designed game. Again, I never said I wanted this capability at launch. I believe I, again, said I'm fine with it being restricted for X amount of years after launch, within a reasonable amount of time. Making it available 4 years after launch? Fine. Making it available 10 years after launch? Not so much. I know it would be a hard thing to be nailed down, but it would all have to be within some kind of reason. Just like attaching a price to it. You don't want to make it so cheap that every person could afford to do it as often as they want, yet not make it too expensive that no one would ever buy it at all.

I'm not understanding why such venomous hate is being spewed at people who like to have their characters maxed out. I'm not going off and slinging mud around at the person that likes to play lower level characters all the time. Has there been some kind of traumatic experience that happened to you by some higher level character that has caused this type of reaction? If so, I apologize and would like to point out that not every person that likes to play a max level character is like that. I believe that MWM has said they plan on making PvP an option placed upon each individual person, so it's not like some higher level character will be able to run into a lower level character, kill them, and then camp on their body laughing while emote dancing on their corpse. If it's the constant taunting in general chat that gets on your nerves I'm sure MWM will give us some way to be able to ignore such a person so we don't have to see that kind of stuff in general chat.

Understand that there will always be griefers everywhere you go. Real life, forum topics, in games.... Also understand that those people, while extremely annoying, are a smaller percentage than the actual people who enjoy playing the game and providing fun and friendly atmosphere. Seems like people always remember the 1 bad thing that happens as compared to the 100 good things that happen. Sometimes that skews our perception of things. It is easier to point out the 1 wrong thing versus all the hundreds of good things happening all the time. Don't let 1 bad experience stand out amongst all the other times that nothing bad happened.

I got chills! They're multiplyin'. And I'm losin' control. Cuz the power, I'm supplyin'. Why it's ELECTRIFYIN'!!

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So far, I only know of one

So far, I only know of one game, WoW, that has (or is planning on having, I don't recall if it's for sale yet, but I do know that it won't be taking effect until they release their next expansion) a paid character level increase anywhere near what the OP refers to. And I think it worth noting that there are substantial differences between WoW and what it seems that the devs have planned for CoT.

The WoW level boost isn't to max level, it's only to the current max level, which will be going up with their expansion. From what I understand, the CoT devs are planning to expand up to level 50 and then stop, expanding outward rather than onward, so there won't be the ever-increasing length of the journey to the endgame that WoW has had, which is in my opinion the only reason the folks at Blizzard are getting away with as little hue and cry as they have.

For a large segment (possibly even a majority) of the WoW community, the endgame raids and dungeons etc. are what they like to do. They stick with a handful of characters, and when the next release comes out they surge through the new leveling content as fast as they can, get to the new level cap, and then do their raids and dungeons etc.. I'll be very surprised if the equivalent segment of the CoT community is anywhere near as large. Not nonexistent, as in Update # 18 Warcabbit said there would be raids, so that segment of the population will have something to do ^_^

So for this likely smaller segment of the population, that just wants to get their character to the level where they can do the new endgame content, I can see where some might like to skip the leveling up process, especially new players who don't have any max-level characters yet and maybe those who do, but want to try it with a different primary role. I don't see it becoming widespread unless it is very cheap, for the simple reason that most of the community would not see the point in it. "Pay, to skip content? What an absurd notion!" So I think oOStaticOo has a point about it not likely having much effect on PC population in low level areas.

OTOH, I can see one effect that it would be likely to have that most of the community here would see as a Bad ThingTM. It could be seen as a form of Pay to Win. And in my opinion, that is reason enough to reject the idea, barring massive change to the game and/or community.

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It would be trouble in the

It would be trouble in the beginning i do agree to that. Maybe street sweeping will have a different distribution 70-80 for enemies and 30-20 for mission complete (Hunt 50 carnies in PI). I just hope you guys find some way to discourage or fix the ability to PL

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AlienMafia wrote:
AlienMafia wrote:

It would be trouble in the beginning i do agree to that. Maybe street sweeping will have a different distribution 70-80 for enemies and 30-20 for mission complete (Hunt 50 carnies in PI). I just you guys find some way to discourage or fix the ability to PL

What about implementing Active and Passive states.
When you're out of battle and havent used any of your abilities for a certain amount of time, you enter the Passive state.

But if you use any one of your powers (combat based: dmg/support, etc...), then you enter into the Active state.
But... self powers, travel powers, toggle DoT DMG, etc.. could be excluded from the Active state. So if you have Blazing Aura turned on for the 2nd account thats following you, even if Blazing Aura hits, you wont get credit for the foes defeat.

As long as your toon is in the Active state, you get experience points. Only problem is, players that create 2nd accounts and set their toon on Follow wont get PL'ed anymore. :/ Oh wait, is that Bad?!? :)

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AlienMafia wrote:
AlienMafia wrote:

I just you guys find some way to discourage or fix the ability to PL

Because you do not want to power level does not mean it should be taken away from other people.

Now, I am all for stopping exploits, banning people for botting, watching the mission creator like a hawk, even putting in some kind of system to stop door sitting. I don't consider things that discouraging power leveling, just preventing exploits.

Some people are going to want to level up quickly. Whether that's to hit a desired level of play or they just have fun advancing quickly. That is their business. Plenty of players are not going to care one bit about the story, either the game's lore or even their own characters. Blowing through the content is a choice they are making willingly.

Finally, anything that could be enacted to really curtail power leveling would worsen the experience for everyone. regular players will be bottoming out on the speed bumps put in place to stop the PLers.

The PLer, the RPer, the achievement hunter, the soloist, the teamer, mission text reader, mission text ignorer, and the casual player can all exists in this game. After all, they all existed in CoH, didn't they?

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How would this be considered

How would this be considered Pay 2 Win? Perhaps I'm not understanding how you are seeing this as such. I thought the Devs said that the End Game wasn't really going to be about the End Game, that instead the End Game was going to be about Alting. If all there is at the end of the game is just regular TF's and missions just like there were in the lower levels, how is this a Pay 2 Win scenario? Wouldn't there have to be a reason to have a max level character at the end of the game to have meaning for somebody to Pay 2 Win? There would have to be something that only is achievable at the very end, some kind of rare item that can only be obtained once you've reached max level and can then start grinding through some content that would net you the "Uber Enhancement of Poweriness!".

Does PvP play a part in the Pay 2 Win scenario that you are thinking of? If so, I won't be participating in PvP. I don't like PvP. When CoH was around I really loved the ITF, STF, and LRSF. I couldn't tell you how many times I had done them. Literally in the thousands for the ITF. Why? I don't know. I just really liked them. Mostly it was because I could play my fully leveled and fully IO'd out characters with Incarnate abilities and just try to blitz through it as fast as I could to see just how fast I could do it. To try to see if I could kill the nicti before defeating Romulus himself. Solo the towers full of Cimerorans. So if CoT has something similar developed I'm sure I'll be doing the same thing just as well. Different people liked different things about CoH. Whatever made you happy is great. I'm glad you found it and enjoyed it. I'm not trying to take that away from you at all. I'm just trying to ensure that there are plenty of options for each type of player CoT will have to offer.

I got chills! They're multiplyin'. And I'm losin' control. Cuz the power, I'm supplyin'. Why it's ELECTRIFYIN'!!

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In COX, there were times when

In COX, there were times when I wished there was an insta-50 button. Especially if I was starting a toon on a new server or making one on a server my friends played on that was going to be more or less identical to a 50 I already had.

In COT that may not be a problem as I'm not quite sure if we are going to have multiple servers or something similar to the Champions Online set up where you don't have servers per se so much as zones that you can transfer between. (Something I really like.)

The other thing I really hated was playing an end-burning toon pre-stamina or or just on TO/DOs. It was always such a relief to get to 22 and be able to afford SOs. :D

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Yes, CoT is going to use the

Yes, CoT is going to use the 'one big server' scheme, like in Champions.

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Izzy wrote:
Izzy wrote:

As long as your toon is in the Active state, you get experience points. Only problem is, players that create 2nd accounts and set their toon on Follow wont get PL'ed anymore. :/ Oh wait, is that Bad?!? :)

It probably costs us money as it makes second accounts less attractive, whether overall it's a bad thing is up for debate.

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Minotaur wrote:
Minotaur wrote:

It probably costs us money as it makes second accounts less attractive, whether overall it's a bad thing is up for debate.

Yep... true enough.

edited:
How about XP Boost(s) for Cross Account leveling pact(s)?

1st day a free XP Boost each month, when you have 1 extra Account.
2 days free XP Boost each month, for 2 extra Accounts.
3 days free... etc... scales up.

You can even let players decide which day to use it... but just like an online movie rental, it expires in 24 hrs.
And there is no Roll Over to the next month. Use it or loose it. :)

With multi account leveling pacts, you can level up toon's FASTER.

And it allows you to spend a whole day on 1 Toon without having to worry about switching if you dont feel like it.
Also, what if you can Specify a Percent of the XP thats being shared between different accounts? :)

I would like to make sure Moochers aren't getting free XP (that randomly join) by Camping at the Mission entrance. >:(

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I don't get why people are

I don't get why people are accepting of having Double XP Weekends and XP Boosters that can blast you through multiple levels in one mission in a matter of minutes, yet are so vehemently against having some kind of option to be able to make your character start out at a pre-determined higher level after you've done something to be able to obtain the right to do so. Isn't this the same thing as a form of Pay 2 Win scenario? Buying XP Boosters off of the cash store so you can level up faster than the person who didn't? Isn't it in some way a form of Power Leveling, only in a developer accepted way?

Double XP weekends are a reward handed out to players from time to time. It's also used to attract new players, or players that haven't played in a while back. What happens to those new players when they join in on Double XP weekend and have a max level character in a matter of hours? Do they really know how to play that character? Do they really appreciate it like they should, because obviously they didn't take the real journey from 1 to max level in a normal reasonable amount of time? Isn't using Double XP Weekends and XP Boosters at the same time kind of like using an "Easy Button"?

How can one thing be acceptable and the other isn't?

I got chills! They're multiplyin'. And I'm losin' control. Cuz the power, I'm supplyin'. Why it's ELECTRIFYIN'!!

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Double XP is a temporary

Double XP is a temporary bonus. I see it as a passing luxury we can take advantage of to make some quick progress. You still have to work to gain levels though. Also, I don't agree that these tokens would be P2W because no one is winning anything. Double XP and Max level tokens aren't even in the same ball park. As someone said earlier, the gap from 1 - 50 will only be a minor inconvenience for anyone who wants to skip.

To answer your previous question, I think the probability of being more attached to a house I designed/built over one I bought is quite high. Chances are I'll also be far less attached to a house I didn't design. I'll most likely never be obligated to live in either. There's a huge difference between a $500k home over a $180/yr character on a video game--so I'm not sure if this is the best analogy. I actually do have a house design in mind I dream about though.

Not trying to pound on you since I agree with a lot of what you've said in other forum posts, and I think you're a cool dude, but I simply don't agree with being able to skip to high levels at all. I felt I had to say that since this topic is up to 85 threads, and you're still defending the idea lol.

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Which is why I also stated

Which is why I also stated that it doesn't have to be max level. It can also be a lower level. Say, for the sake of needing an example we'll use CoX, 22. Then you can immediately start using SO enhancements instead of TO's or DO's. I find it interesting that when I look at other forums I see a lot of people saying, "Don't tell me how to play my character!". Yet in a way, this is exactly what is being said in this thread. You HAVE to play your character from level 1 to max level. You HAVE to learn how to play your character from beginning to end. You HAVE to enjoy the journey in order to appreciate your character. Am I wrong?

I got chills! They're multiplyin'. And I'm losin' control. Cuz the power, I'm supplyin'. Why it's ELECTRIFYIN'!!

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You're right, but I see these

You're right, but I see these in the context of standard game play. In order play chess correctly, you can't give all pawns the moves of a knight. Sure you can do this if you were to play at home with a friend w/o no consequences, but playing when money or a tournament is involved, you stick to the rules. Don't tell me to only play defense, or always start off moving my pawn two spaces--sure this makes sense. But you always have to play on the board, and you always have to checkmate the king. Skipping levels isn't a manner of playing your character. It's a manner of not playing your character.

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oOStaticOo wrote:
oOStaticOo wrote:

I don't get why people are accepting of having Double XP Weekends and XP Boosters that can blast you through multiple levels in one mission in a matter of minutes...

I am not one of those people.

Just to have come out and said it.

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To be fair, I know there are

To be fair, I know there are people against XP boosts as well. However, to answer why I am personally ok with XP boosters but not with instant levels is there is no guarantee with a booster. Activating a booster or logging in during DXP weekend does not get you levels, you still need to punch faces and complete missions. Yes, you gain the levels faster, but you still work to gain them. This is why I am ok with PLing as well; you are still earning your levels (assuming you are not door sitting or utilizing an exploit), just getting them faster. I realize the differences are fairly subjective, but that is my reasoning.

oOStaticOo wrote:

I find it interesting that when I look at other forums I see a lot of people saying, "Don't tell me how to play my character!". Yet in a way, this is exactly what is being said in this thread. You HAVE to play your character from level 1 to max level. You HAVE to learn how to play your character from beginning to end. You HAVE to enjoy the journey in order to appreciate your character. Am I wrong?

I do have to agree with you on that one. Interestingly, I have been involved with almost a reverse argument with a section of the game community, arguing that the low level game just sucked, wasn't worth playing, and I was foolish to waste my time leveling naturally by playing it if I wanted to get to 50 in a reasonable amount of time.

This may be a bit tangential to this topic, but I feel it needs to be said. Not everyone who played CoH was quite so invested into their characters as reading this forum would lead you to believe. Plenty of people just played the game without an investment in the character they were using (investing in the build, yes, but not who the character was). There was no journey to them, there were no story arcs, just strings of missions to get them XP. That doesn't mean they didn't love the game, they just loved it in a different way. Personally, I end up in about the middle between extremes.

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5 OClock Shadow
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I definitely welcome double

I definitely welcome double xp. I feel like the game is alive, and I'm taking place in a game wide event. I always had loads of fun on double xp weekends since all my friends would be on, and we'd be joking the entire time, plowing everything in our path. I enjoyed the quick progress in levels while have fun and experiencing content while doing it. This basically happened at any event really, not just double xp. A level token wouldn't bring people together in this sense.

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Darth Fez wrote:
Darth Fez wrote:

oOStaticOo wrote:
I don't get why people are accepting of having Double XP Weekends and XP Boosters that can blast you through multiple levels in one mission in a matter of minutes...
I am not one of those people.
Just to have come out and said it.

You're not alone, Darth.

Spurn all ye kindle.

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