Unlockable or Purchasable Instant Max Level?

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Radiac
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For the record, I have no

For the record, I have no problem with Double XP weekends because it tended to give people a reason to play CoX on a specific schedule, thus causing people to gather and creating a more full game. More people playing at the same time = more fun for me (and for them, I would think). As for the "Easy Button" as I've been calling it, whether it's straight to 50 or just a way to skip the first few levels I'm still against it because it doesn't encourage people to play at a specific time or even at all, it allows them NOT to play some content and thus makes them bored faster. I'd also point out that the first 10 levels or so in CoX went by in a flash anyway, but were still fun because you were constantly getting levelups and picking powers, etc.

I LIKED playing my lowbie toons. The fact that they didn't have all their powers yet made it MORE fun for me when I was leveling them. Every new ding meant I got to pick a new power, more slots, better enhancements, the cape , the auras, etc. If you fast-forward past any of that stuff, you've deprived yourself of some fun. You're left with LESS fun stuff to do with that toon in that case. I want to suck the juice out of my toons by playing them through every level, not bypass all that fun by skipping ahead. I also agree with Lothic who pointed out that as soon as this becomes a possibility it becomes the expectation. It's a way of avoiding the very content which was written and implemented in the game so that it could be played. Way to make some content totally useless and pointless, guys. This makes the devs' hard work in creating that content pointless and a waste of time and money. It also causes people to burn through the content that they ARE doing that much faster and creates a lot more people who USED to play CoT but recently stopped because they ran out of "good" content to do and refused to do the "lowbie crap" content because they could skip it.

R.S.O. of Phoenix Rising

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I respect everybody's opinion

I respect everybody's opinion about how fun it is to play a character at the lower levels and am not disagreeing with said sentiment. I too enjoyed the sound of the ding and the excitement of unlocking a new power for my character. I will admit though that after going through so many characters all the way to level 50, that excitement wore off on me. How much fun a person has on their character is a subjective viewpoint. One person's idea of fun isn't always the same as another's. Skipping ahead to the levels where one person's idea of fun begins is completely up to that person to decide. It's arbitrary. Some people like the challenge of the low level stuff. Some like the Mid level content, because it's more full and robust. Some like the End Game stuff because it allows them to truly feel powerful and Superheroish.

I don't want the Developers to feel like they've "wasted their time" on lower level content if it's never played. I just don't feel like that will always be the case. Also if it is restricted to a point where a person has to level up first, obtain certain badges along the way, and then have X amount of hours played or a minimum number of characters at max level it should somewhat guarantee that the lower level content is being played still. I'm not asking for this to be an easily obtained option. I'd like for it to have restrictions on how it could be obtained if for some reason the Developers ever were to implement such an idea.

That's the other thing. I'm not saying that this will ever be implemented. All I'm asking is that if it is, what kind of restrictions would be acceptable, within reason, to make it so that everybody would be okay with seeing something like this. This is purely a hypothetical scenario. Would I like to see it? Sure. Do I expect to see it? No. Is there a possibility that this might happen? Who knows? Maybe. So if it ever does, what would you like to see for it to be an option and make you feel comfortable with accepting it as such?

I got chills! They're multiplyin'. And I'm losin' control. Cuz the power, I'm supplyin'. Why it's ELECTRIFYIN'!!

syntaxerror37
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Radiac wrote:
Radiac wrote:

I LIKED playing my lowbie toons. The fact that they didn't have all their powers yet made it MORE fun for me when I was leveling them. Every new ding meant I got to pick a new power, more slots, better enhancements, the cape , the auras, etc. If you fast-forward past any of that stuff, you've deprived yourself of some fun. You're left with LESS fun stuff to do with that toon in that case. I want to suck the juice out of my toons by playing them through every level, not bypass all that fun by skipping ahead. I also agree with Lothic who pointed out that as soon as this becomes a possibility it becomes the expectation. It's a way of avoiding the very content which was written and implemented in the game so that it could be played. Way to make some content totally useless and pointless, guys. This makes the devs' hard work in creating that content pointless and a waste of time and money. It also causes people to burn through the content that they ARE doing that much faster and creates a lot more people who USED to play CoT but recently stopped because they ran out of "good" content to do and refused to do the "lowbie crap" content because they could skip it.

Because you liked it, does not mean everyone else did. I know for a fact lots of people HATED the low levels in CoH. To them they are not skipping the fun, they are skipping to the hatted/boring part to get to the fun part. As for the wasted effort and resources if they skip the low levels angle, it doesn't really matter. These people won't be playing them anyway, whether or not they have an instant level option. They will just get a sidekick from a buddy and PL/farm their way up to their desired level of fun.

To clarify, I don't feel that way, I like to experience the content and read mission text, even on the 20th time through. I do enjoy the journey from 1-the cap in any level based game. Personally I'm against an instant level being an option in the game based on my own feelings, but I don't pretend that my fun in a game like this is the only way to have fun.

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tikimonkey
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Instant gratification is not

Instant gratification is not gratifying. No instant max level. Just no!

Half of the fun of the game is steadily leveling up your character and gaining new abilities. It's the sense of growth and achievement that keeps me coming back to see how my character evolves. It also gives you a chance to learn and use your powers effectively as you level. Instantly being at max level deprives the person of learning all the nuances of the specific power set they chose both good and bad as well as using them to their greatest effect.

Skipping over content also deprives you of meeting new people to do things with makes all of the lower level content a waste of the developers time. The occasional bonus xp weekends were a great compromise in CoX. They offered a chance to level faster without completely skipping over content and important learning and growing pains of building the character up.

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Is it just me, or am I just

Is it just me, or am I just beating my head against a wall?

I got chills! They're multiplyin'. And I'm losin' control. Cuz the power, I'm supplyin'. Why it's ELECTRIFYIN'!!

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oOStaticOo wrote:
oOStaticOo wrote:

Is it just me, or am I just beating my head against a wall?

its peoples expectations you need to attack. ;)

Its like trying to make a movie about The Karate Kid, without any training.
No Wax On.. Wax Off? ;D

Only those people that stick through the rough times are the ones that get Rewarded. Not the slackers that want everything handed to them.
Even if it was Priced very high, some people will ALWAYS Object! :)

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Have I not repeated my self

Have I not repeated my self enough times? Did nobody actually read any of my posts? I keep repeating myself over and over and over and over and over and......

I got chills! They're multiplyin'. And I'm losin' control. Cuz the power, I'm supplyin'. Why it's ELECTRIFYIN'!!

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XP booster boosts XP gained

XP booster boosts XP gained by PLAYING.

Double-XP weekends double the XP gained by PLAYING.

Clicking a button to spend $2-$6,000 is not playing the game and should never earn you levels.

The original Lady of Ysgard. -Virtue

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oOStaticOo wrote:
oOStaticOo wrote:

What kind of restrictions would be acceptable, within reason, to make it so that everybody would be okay with seeing something like this.

Price point: $60k per level, $3mil one-time use per account key. $6,000,000 for a one-time use ability to go from character generation to maximum level a maximum of once per account.

It's within reason. If you want to get that maximum level character so bad, you'd best get to earning it one way or another. Payment in full 2 weeks before ability is enabled for the account, only usable on characters made before the purchase, nonrefundable under any circumstances. If character is not used once a week, character is deleted and unrecoverable, this only applies to characters boosted up through pay to win. Character earns in-game money at 0.00001% rate. Character cannot gain bonuses from badges or accolades, cannot be given money or items by other players, and cannot participate in the in-game market. Character cannot respec.

The original Lady of Ysgard. -Virtue

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Okay. How many times do I

Okay. How many times do I need to say that I'm fine restricting this behind X amount of hours played. Or X amount of characters leveled from 1 to max level? Or that you have to obtain certain badges that can ONLY be obtained through game play from level 1 to max level? Or combining ALL THREE of the previous restrictions? What part of this is not being understood???? Seriously?

If that is the problem where people think the game will not be played and that instead people will just automatically start up a subscription, then purchase the ability to Max level a character then I am not opposed to making it so that is not possible. I'm seriously thinking that people are just seeing this and thinking, "Oh well all that means is some new person that has never played the game before is just going to come on, buy a max level character, not know what they are doing, and completely piss me off while teamed with me during a mission!"

I'M NOT SAYING THAT! IF it's a purchasable item, it's a ONE TIME token to make ONE character anywhere from level 1 to max level. That purchase SHOULD be set at a value that is expensive enough to discourage people from purchasing multiple tokens, yet not too overly expensive that no one would ever buy one. I'm open to suggestions about that price, that are reasonable. IF it's an unlockable option, make it so that it will take a lot of TIME and EFFORT to unlock.

If people are worried about lower level content not being played, create an Ouroboros type area that will allow people to go back in time to play lower level missions much like CoH did. Create Accolades that include badges that have to be obtained by playing some kind of lower level content story arc. If people are worried that somebody will not know how to play a character solely because they bought one, there are plenty of people who have leveled a character through regular game play that STILL have no idea how to play their character according to the opinions of some.

If you are going to say that nobody can appreciate their character on the basis that they never took the time to level it up from 1 to max level, that is YOUR opinion and not necessarily true. If you are going to say that it devalues your character, HOW would you know?? If nobody told you they bought the character you'd assume that they leveled it up the old fashioned way. If you are going to assume that if somebody doesn't know what they are doing then they obviously bought their character that is YOUR assumption, and we all know what assuming does.

In NO WAY am I trying to discourage anybody from PLAYING this game. I'm only trying to give people OPTIONS. SOME people might like to have that option available to them.

I got chills! They're multiplyin'. And I'm losin' control. Cuz the power, I'm supplyin'. Why it's ELECTRIFYIN'!!

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6 million dollars for a one

6 million dollars for a one time EVER use is just as reasonable as this suggestion is in the first place.

The original Lady of Ysgard. -Virtue

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Or set up like eBay they can

Or set up like eBay they can all bid on it and whoever has highest bid will win respec lol

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No. It's not reasonable, nor

No. It's not reasonable, nor is it serious. My suggestion is reasonable and is serious. I'm not the only person out there that has ever thought of this or sees this as a viable option. I've said I'd be willing to listen to reasons that are legitimate. I've tried to show that I am not above trying to reach some kind of compromise. I've been very adult about this whole thing and yet I'm the one being called a petulant child at times. I think my arguments are valid, well thought out, and well spoken. If you can't be respectful, have an open mind, and be reasonable then I will not consider anything you have to say on this matter as valid input.

I got chills! They're multiplyin'. And I'm losin' control. Cuz the power, I'm supplyin'. Why it's ELECTRIFYIN'!!

Terlin
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Hello, everyone.

Hello, everyone.

I can see quite a bit of passion in some of the comments. Whether you agree with the OP, are vehemently against, or somewhere is the middle, please keep it respectful and constructive.

A feature like this may never be implemented, but there is no reason we can't find value in the discussion. It's surprising how often ideas are sparked by opposing points of view: no matter how polarizing.

I'd also like to draw your attention back to something Syntax said.

syntaxerror37 wrote:

AlienMafia wrote:
I just you guys find some way to discourage or fix the ability to PL

Because you do not want to power level does not mean it should be taken away from other people.
Now, I am all for stopping exploits, banning people for botting, watching the mission creator like a hawk, even putting in some kind of system to stop door sitting. I don't consider things that discouraging power leveling, just preventing exploits.
Some people are going to want to level up quickly. Whether that's to hit a desired level of play or they just have fun advancing quickly. That is their business. Plenty of players are not going to care one bit about the story, either the game's lore or even their own characters. Blowing through the content is a choice they are making willingly.
Finally, anything that could be enacted to really curtail power leveling would worsen the experience for everyone. regular players will be bottoming out on the speed bumps put in place to stop the PLers.
The PLer, the RPer, the achievement hunter, the soloist, the teamer, mission text reader, mission text ignorer, and the casual player can all exists in this game. After all, they all existed in CoH, didn't they?

The gaming experience will be different things to different people. What path they will choose will depend on their wants and what the game brings to the experience. Only time will tell. Also, that dynamic will change during the life of the game, and people's desires may too.

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Terlin

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oOStaticOo wrote:
oOStaticOo wrote:

Have I not repeated my self enough times? Did nobody actually read any of my posts? I keep repeating myself over and over and over and over and over and......

I suspect the ONLY way you could get everyone to Agree to Insta Max Level tokens is if there was a whole New Zone thats meant for level 50+ (in CoH/CoV).

Lets say the Gold Side for Praetoria was actually made for level 50+ (it wasnt though, but should have been to be honest.. with TFs fighting Emperor Cole), Allot of people would NOT object to inst-max level tokens, as long as those toons could not transfer to Blue or Red side so easily. Red and Blue side could get to Gold in 6 days time.. but Insta-Max level toons would need a Whole slew of badges to get to Red or blue side, which would take 3 times as long. So, if you leveled up normally, even with a few XP Boosts, you could get to level 40+ in roughly the same time. And if you didnt want to go Blue or red side, your insta-max level toon would be stuck in the Gold side sandbox. ;)

My idea is, if you go the Insta-Max level route, you're gonna have to work 3 times as hard to get the Same achievements than a red or blue side player. Well, at least until you pay off Debt Points thats automatically tacked on for InstaMax toons at start. And the amount of effort should come close to what it would have taken a normal player to get to 40+. Only fair. :)

See, the trick is... you have to make it Seem like those insta-max toons arent unfairly given an EZPass by Devs.. and making it seem to most as somehow More Special than the other normal players. Plus, its not about who has more money to spend, its more like a sports thing. PRIDE.

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I think you'd have to change

I think you'd have to change people's fundamental idea of gaming in order to purchase level tokens. People who generally don't use cheat codes in games wouldn't ever use it--no matter what end game content/zones are. This is where the crux comes in. I have used cheat codes in games like Doom 2 and Blood after playing through the game 25 times. Which is exactly what Static is suggesting, but basically those cheat codes wouldn't be available until you played the game 25 times. I just can't grip the concept for an MMO since I'm so against the instant gratification mainly because I usually quit playing those games once I can clip through walls or enter god mode. There's no challenge. Of course those two cheats are far more of a cheat than being able to choose your level. The fact remains that I feel I'd get a similar effect, and so would other people.

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So it seems that most people

So it seems that most people are fixating on the "Purchasable Instant Max Level Token", and are mainly objecting to this. I understand the opposition to this, I'm not a big fan of it myself. However, I'm going off of what I've heard MWM say they'd like to do by making everything in the game either unlockable through game play or purchasable in the Cash Shop.

Now, you want to make it extremely difficult for somebody to be able to do this. Okay. I'm fine with that too. So how about I reword some of my previous suggestions to see if this makes it somewhat more clear.

Let's say that a token can be purchased through the Cash Shop to make a character either start out at max level or at any level the purchaser wishes to start out at. To obtain such a token, not only does one have to purchase it a reasonable price ($40 dollars for example) but they also have to meet certain criteria before it becomes an unlocked option in the store. Such as having played the game for 600 hours, having a minimum of 1 of every AT at level 50 and at least 10 total characters at level 50, while also having achieved certain badges that are only obtained by playing the game from level 1 to 50 doing certain content and/or TF's.

Does this make it difficult enough in your mind to validate having such an option? Would it satisfy you in knowing that this wasn't something that anybody could just pick up and instantly be gratified by having a level 50 and taking something away from your game play and hard work you put on your character?

Or would we rather it not be purchasable at all, but only unlockable by a veteran player as some kind of veteran reward for showing loyalty to subscribing to MWM for so many years and having played the game for so many years?

I got chills! They're multiplyin'. And I'm losin' control. Cuz the power, I'm supplyin'. Why it's ELECTRIFYIN'!!

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Are we talking about skipping

Are we talking about skipping content (the thing we all seem to want to have)
or
Are we talking about skipping leveling?

I skip Leveling already. Hell I'm like lvl 30/50 from PvPing alone in Wildstar.. but I'm still enjoying doing every single mission there is. I STILL need to unlock a power slot to slot my last power of my primary build and that irks me. I don't WANT to do the content in the game on a build that doesn't represent my character. I WANT to do the content.. but I want to be a representative of my final build while doing it.

If the game offers me the option "Shut up and take my money". If the game doesn't want my money I understand, but there is a large chance they will be losing out (as I don't make alts).

Crowd Control Enthusiast

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Again, I just don't think

Again, I just don't think this is something the devs should use their time trying to implement, ESPECIALLY not right away, probably not ever. CoX had fast enough leveling (even without PLing) that it didn't need this, in my opinion, anyway. If you ask me, what they ought to do is focus on making repeatable content more fun and rewarding for those people who are repeatedly playing it. If the complaint is "that ride sucks after the first couple of times you do it." then make it NOT suck somehow. Or else add more rides at that level to give people the option of doing something ELSE instead. Simply exempting people from having to play their toon for the first X levels is not, I feel, conducive to making the game more fun or keeping the players entertained for longer periods of time. If anything it causes people to eliminate some amount of content that they'd otherwise be doing, thus giving them LESS content to really do, thus causing them to get bored with the HIGH level content faster because they can just cut straight to it, thus causing them to get bored with CoT itself that much faster. The Easy Button causes people who WOULD have been playing, say, 80% of the available content to now only play, say 50% of it. Good job, you just made Atlas Park through Brickstown totally obsolete and redundant. We may as well not have made those zones or filled them with NPCs or written missions for those levels now, because you definitely aren't going to do any of them.

As soon as you tell a player "There are levels, and when you play and defeat stuff, you get XP and then when you get enough XP you get to the next level. Currently the maximum level is 50." Everyone's NATURAL response, at least internally, is to say "So level 50 is the HIGHEST level? What's the FASTEST way to level 50 then? Is there some way I can just be level 50 right away?" because CLEARLY that sounds like less work and more fun, but then you level your guy to 50 the long way and realize shortly after you get there that you no longer have any reason to want to play that toon so much anymore and you've run out of things to do, because there are no more level-ups to play for.

Forcing people to actually play their toon up through the levels "the long way" is the main reason people remain in the game and playing it and paying for subs or cash shop stuff, etc in the first place. If you could just shortccut to 50, you'd do it, then you'd quickly get one of every class toon there, then you'd eventually say "Well, I guess I've done every high-level mission with every possible toon, so I'm done. Goodbye, CoT, call me back when you've got a new class or some new high-level content for me." then you come back for like a week once or twice a year and juice the new stuff for a while before getting bored because you're "done" again. In short, this Easy button causes people to NOT WANT TO PLAY THE GAME ANYMORE, maybe right away, maybe after they've exhausted every possible level 50 toon, but faster than they would in a world without Easy Buttons for sure. People got bored and left CoX only to come back a lot, and CoX DIDN'T have this. Do you honestly think CoX would have retained MORE players for LONGER periods of time if it had an Easy Button? I don't. I dislike this idea enough to say, in all honesty, that I want the devs to actively avoid doing this.

Regardless of the circumstances or limitations you place on unlocking it, an Easy Button of the kinds described here is like paying some other kid to open your Christmas presents for you.

R.S.O. of Phoenix Rising

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To answer Jaybezz it would be

To answer Jaybezz it would be to only skip levels. I would still like for the content to be able to be played from beginning to end if possible. I would hope that the Devs could still find some way to make it so that even level 50's can go back and play level 1 content if they so desired to do. Whether that is through something like an Ouroborus zone or by Exemplaring down to that level I don't care. I think a lot of people are misunderstanding my desire for the content that the Devs create to still be able to be played with that of being able to make a higher level character and being locked out of all the content under whatever level they start out at. I do not wish this at all. On the contrary. I'm all for having certain temp powers or accolades that are rewarded for running lower level content and being able to go back to lower level content once outleveled to be able to still get those temp powers or accolades.

I do not feel that once a person reaches level 50 then that is it! Nothing more to do. Why bother keeping this level 50 around now. Might as well just delete it and reroll a new character. For some people that may be the case. For others there are still high level content that can be played repeatedly. Task Forces to be ran repeatedly. Helping lower level characters by buffing them up, healing them, or granting them temporary travel powers so they can more easily street sweep or make it from one end of the zone to the other, much like many people did in CoX. I think that if a person is determined to leave CoT they will regardless of whatever kind of content or non content there is or isn't. Just because they had some "Easy Button" instantly max out their character level does not equate to "I'm bored with the game now, I'm out." And "Forcing" people to do anything that they may not want to do is NOT a way to keep people around. Quite the contrary, that is the FASTEST way to make people stop or leave.

I'm also all for making content not suck. Unfortunately though, there will come a point where the content will be repetitive and people will get bored of doing it over and over again. Much like CoH. AE was a welcome sight because now people could create their own missions with new content. COOL! Unfortunately people also abused AE to power level characters. What can ya do? People will always try to find some way to get that character to level as fast as they possibly can. Not everybody enjoys the ride from 1 to 50 the slow way like others do. I'm trying to help MWM find a way to help out with this. If they can make some money off of somebody that wants to make a max level character shouldn't they be the ones to get the money instead of some gold farmer selling his PL wares for X amount of dollars through Pay Pal? If people are going to make money off of power leveling wouldn't you rather it be MWM that gets it instead?

I got chills! They're multiplyin'. And I'm losin' control. Cuz the power, I'm supplyin'. Why it's ELECTRIFYIN'!!

Godling
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One of my pet peeves before

One of my pet peeves before Ouroboros came out was my favorite characters could not do the new content because
they out-leveled it before it was. I like taking my time my three favorite characters did not level fast cause I was reading and trying to find ways to loose xp or delay the rate of gain when they made the debt thing occur.

So please don't tell me i am too powerful for the mission just let me know i won't get much rewards from it.

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Godling wrote:
Godling wrote:

So please don't tell me i am too powerful for the mission just let me know i won't get much rewards from it.

In all fairness the original intent behind that wasn't just that you're too powerful and would have to slog through gray missions. It was also to encourage you to play through the game again on an alt by making it unlikely one character would ever see every story on a single passthrough.

Ouruboros represented something of an abandonment of that attitude and we've seen no indication of this game embracing it, so I don't think we'll have to worry about that. Going into the new game without the attitude of "one player shouldn't see everything on a single run" hopefully means they'll design missions to be much, much harder to 'outlevel,' assuming it's even possible to.

Longtime City of Heroes player, longtime writer. :)

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I am in no way trying to say

I am in no way trying to say that people can not experience any of the content. Even if they were to skip levels. I'm all for people being able to enjoy going through all the content regardless of what level they happen to be. If that means people that are higher level than the content was originally designed for gets less xp or rewards for doing the mission then fine. If that means we have to lose powers to match that of the level that the mission was designed for too, fine again. Please do not confuse my intent on what I'm asking for as some way to skip content or that it will lock anybody out of certain content. I'm not. I'm only trying to provide an idea for more options for those that want to play this game while potentially trying to help MWM make more money.

I got chills! They're multiplyin'. And I'm losin' control. Cuz the power, I'm supplyin'. Why it's ELECTRIFYIN'!!

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Personally, I'm in favor of

Personally, I'm in favor of being able to exemplar down somehow and do missions you out-leveled, but only if exemplared to an appropriate level. For what it's worth, I think it was a very GOOD thing that CoX had that "problem" of being able to outlevel content.. I liked having different paths to take in the early levels as options. This didn't stop me from mostly making Science heroes anyway, but it was definitely a good thing that there was so much different low-level content to do, including the original sewer sweeping people did before the DFB. If anything, the real problem was not having ENOUGH content to do in the later levels at one point.

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Radiac wrote:
Radiac wrote:

For what it's worth, I think it was a very GOOD thing that CoX had that "problem" of being able to outlevel content..

That was one reason and a valid one in City of Heroes. The issues with too many stories is doubled though if you are teaming up and doing other people's missions. You didn't get the whole story from other people's missions, although hopefully that'll be fixed. But you also ended up potentially seeing the same mission more than once (yours, other people's, or just other people with the same mission). Even later on when you could share mission completes (So you didn't have to do the same mission more than once if multiple team members had the same mission), it didn't help if you got the mission at different times.

I'm looking forward to seeing if Titans addresses the issue, either now or in a later big content update.

I'm hoping missions stay 'fresh' for more levels. So even if you gain ten or twenty levels from the time you get a mission it can still scale to your current level.

Longtime City of Heroes player, longtime writer. :)

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I would have liked it if the

I would have liked it if the Missions were Still doable if they were still -5 to your current level.
i.e. You leveled up to 30 with friends doing their mish'es, but you got a mish at level 25... you can still do it, but not the level 22 mish.. too far down.
When you enter the level 25 Mish (though you really are now level 30), you get auto-Exemped down to 25... so does everyone else on team*.

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AmbiDreamer wrote:
AmbiDreamer wrote:

I'm hoping missions stay 'fresh' for more levels. So even if you gain ten or twenty levels from the time you get a mission it can still scale to your current level.

This has become the norm in modern MMO design. out-leveling a mission is a relic at this point. Although, it's more likely that you would scale down to the mission than the other way around, you should be able to play it regardless of your actual level.

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Agreed. Out-leveling should

Agreed. Out-leveling should never exist and in someway either by making mission scale with you or auto exemping your character to the mission or not changing anything to keep u feeling stronger and not take away from what you have accomplished. Under-leveling should exist and new contacts should only be recieved through introductions from previous contacts or reaching certain levels because some contacts may hear about you heroic/villainous deeds through word of mouth including contacts that are doubke agents who want to set you up to be framed

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syntaxerror37 wrote:
syntaxerror37 wrote:

AmbiDreamer wrote:
I'm hoping missions stay 'fresh' for more levels. So even if you gain ten or twenty levels from the time you get a mission it can still scale to your current level.

This has become the norm in modern MMO design. out-leveling a mission is a relic at this point. Although, it's more likely that you would scale down to the mission than the other way around, you should be able to play it regardless of your actual level.

Define "modern" MMO though? Because out of all the MMO's that I have played since CoX came out, City of Heroes was the ONLY MMO that I have ever played where this could happen. Granted, I haven't played Everquest 1 or 2, or UO... CoX was my first MMO, and even then, I felt it was strange...

I can understand the auto-exemping to a certain level, but I can *potentially* see some classes having issues with content this way (of course, this all depends as to how the Auto Exemping works... does it take you to the mission level only, or Mission Level +X leeway?)

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I would vote for much like

I would vote for much like City did with a Mission Level +X style exemplaring.

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Gangrel wrote:
Gangrel wrote:

syntaxerror37 wrote:
AmbiDreamer wrote:
I'm hoping missions stay 'fresh' for more levels. So even if you gain ten or twenty levels from the time you get a mission it can still scale to your current level.

This has become the norm in modern MMO design. out-leveling a mission is a relic at this point. Although, it's more likely that you would scale down to the mission than the other way around, you should be able to play it regardless of your actual level.

Define "modern" MMO though? Because out of all the MMO's that I have played since CoX came out, City of Heroes was the ONLY MMO that I have ever played where this could happen. Granted, I haven't played Everquest 1 or 2, or UO... CoX was my first MMO, and even then, I felt it was strange...
I can understand the auto-exemping to a certain level, but I can *potentially* see some classes having issues with content this way (of course, this all depends as to how the Auto Exemping works... does it take you to the mission level only, or Mission Level +X leeway?)

GW2 is an example where you get scaled down to the level of the mission. Although your base stats and weapons scale down, you keep all the unlocked skills and weapon powers you have at your native level. Weapons also continue to function at their rarity level (so a rare still gives a rare bonus even if you are leveled down before rares are available).

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I like the CoX exemplar

I like the CoX exemplar system just fine. Just make it apply to solo missions as well as TFs and teamups and you're done. You keep the slotting and stuff in the powers you have, but you only get powers you would have had at the level of the mission of one or two levels above it. If your IOs are of a level above that threshold, you get no set bonuses from them and new-lower-level-appropriate hardcapped enhancement levels applied to the powers they're in instead of the (higher) enhancement levels listed on the IO itself.

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Purchasable max level is

Purchasable max level is something WoW is just beginning to toy with. It, along with double XP weekends (or XP or other levelling-assist boosters ala half the games out there, often also purchasable) are things introduced to aging games to attract back players who have left, or to temporarily reverse the inexorable drain of players.

Like a giant, honking supra-pet sidekick ala Robin for everyone (EverQuest, Dungeons & Dragons Online) so you can solo missions easily, these things are probably better left for that day 5 years down the road when needed.

I'd focus on more, and more clever, missions and making the group-finder process streamlined and easy to use. Levelling rarely felt like levelling because it was usually easy to find pickup groups, much less being part of an alliance where, thanks to the clever sidekicking system, you could just tag along with people 30 levels higher as they did their thing too, and actually contribute.

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Outlevelling missions isn't

Outlevelling missions isn't the same in some games because some of the bosses scale with level. A -27 boss was pretty much as bad as an even level one, and might even have more powers.

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I can agree to a 4-5 year

I can agree to a 4-5 year wait for something like this to be implemented. I understand that the first year a game comes out will be in it's infancy, and take possibly another 2-3 years before it's matured and most of the major bugs are worked out of it. So I'm fine with that. I'm just hoping that there comes a time when there may be that option available, and if it does ever come around that there are restrictions place upon it that are within reason so that other people are more comfortable with the option being available. That is the intent I was going for on this thread. I'm not trying to step all over anybody's toes or demean anybody's hard work, I just want options available and make sure that MOST people are comfortable with it. I know I won't be able to please everybody, Voldine for example, but I hope that I can at least make as many people okay with the idea as I can.

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syntaxerror37 wrote:
syntaxerror37 wrote:

Gangrel wrote:
syntaxerror37 wrote:
AmbiDreamer wrote:
I'm hoping missions stay 'fresh' for more levels. So even if you gain ten or twenty levels from the time you get a mission it can still scale to your current level.

This has become the norm in modern MMO design. out-leveling a mission is a relic at this point. Although, it's more likely that you would scale down to the mission than the other way around, you should be able to play it regardless of your actual level.

Define "modern" MMO though? Because out of all the MMO's that I have played since CoX came out, City of Heroes was the ONLY MMO that I have ever played where this could happen. Granted, I haven't played Everquest 1 or 2, or UO... CoX was my first MMO, and even then, I felt it was strange...
I can understand the auto-exemping to a certain level, but I can *potentially* see some classes having issues with content this way (of course, this all depends as to how the Auto Exemping works... does it take you to the mission level only, or Mission Level +X leeway?)

GW2 is an example where you get scaled down to the level of the mission. Although your base stats and weapons scale down, you keep all the unlocked skills and weapon powers you have at your native level. Weapons also continue to function at their rarity level (so a rare still gives a rare bonus even if you are leveled down before rares are available).

True, there is Guild Wars 2, which does it *completely* with zones. Then again, it also does "level boosting" for World PvP as well. But you cannot "out level" content there, as such... because with the exception of your personal story line, there aren't "quests" as such, more like "events" for you to do...

Wildstar also does it with its dungeons (and when you team up with lower level players in the same zone), in that you can exemp down to the level of the person you are teamed with. In its Arena PvP, it does exemping/boosting as needed...(it takes you to the level for the tier that you are in, and they are *generally* in a level range of 10 I *believe*. But you can also over level for content, so for the open world stuff... if something is too hard for you to do, you can return later on once you have gained a few levels and try it again when you have more of a level advantage.

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There may be away to serve

There may be away to serve everyone. Regardless of there tastes.
You could have selection between publicity mode and career mode.
Career mode would point you to contacts of your level (Goku from Dragonball , Naruto from Naruto, Superman, Batman)
and Publicity mode would would point you to any contacts your level or lower.
(Captain Hammer from Doctor Horrible, Captain Amazing from Mystery Men, Flash,Plastic Man )

Gaining a level should be something that has no punishments what soever.
Its not fun to pay to not to play.

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I suspect a lot of the "I

I suspect a lot of the "I just want to start at max level" impetus is from the attitude that "the game doesn't start until max level." This stems in no small part from the fact that gameplay seems to change considerably once you do reach that level. So, in effect, those who enjoy the game from 1-max find themselves faced with an entirely new game, while those who want the max-level game are forced to grind through a game they may not want to play in order to get there.

If we do this right, it is my hope that there will be a more unified feel to the game as a whole. Playing from levels 1-max will slowly introduce all the elements that make up the "endgame content," and endgame content will have a lot of tie back to early game content and playstyle, whether directly or through encouraging you to play alts who have ties back up to your max-level PCs.

This is somewhat of a pie-in-the-sky hope, but that is what I would like to aim for: I want this game to feel like a cohesive whole with reason to play it at every level. Even if you have "favorite" levels at which to play it, there should be ways to harken back to that content at higher level, while at the same time alting should be rewarding.

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Segev wrote:
Segev wrote:

I suspect a lot of the "I just want to start at max level" impetus is from the attitude that "the game doesn't start until max level." This stems in no small part from the fact that gameplay seems to change considerably once you do reach that level. So, in effect, those who enjoy the game from 1-max find themselves faced with an entirely new game, while those who want the max-level game are forced to grind through a game they may not want to play in order to get there.
If we do this right, it is my hope that there will be a more unified feel to the game as a whole. Playing from levels 1-max will slowly introduce all the elements that make up the "endgame content," and endgame content will have a lot of tie back to early game content and playstyle, whether directly or through encouraging you to play alts who have ties back up to your max-level PCs.
This is somewhat of a pie-in-the-sky hope, but that is what I would like to aim for: I want this game to feel like a cohesive whole with reason to play it at every level. Even if you have "favorite" levels at which to play it, there should be ways to harken back to that content at higher level, while at the same time alting should be rewarding.

Hmmm.. do you mean, as an example:

levels 1- 10
Trolls use Superadine in the Lore.. and a few trolls have a Green'ish Aura, and one extra attack

levels 11-20
Trolls use Superadine 2 (upgraded) in the Lore.. and a few trolls (maybe Leuts) have an Orang'y Aura, and 2 Extra Attacks

levels 21-30
Trolls use Megaradine (mega upgraded) in the Lore.. and a few trolls (maybe Bosses) have a Red'ish Aura, and 3 Extra Attacks

etc...???

Hehe... I feel like they are MasterMind pets, and i'm throwing those Powers Upgrade boosts on them at each level range. ;D

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People are just impatient.

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One of the hopes we have is a

One of the hopes we have is a to not have a very linear set of missions everyone follows from 1 to 10 and then another set from 10 to 20 and so on. There may be one or several over-arching themes to the story being to,d each each district and set of levels. How each player gets to the same points in the story, or stories being told, may be slightly to incredibly different. As a character is leveled, the choices a player makes determines the character's alignment as well as establishing your reputation with multiple factions.

An instant max level character would have no alignment, no faction rep, no history to speak of. This may prove to be very problematic for the player to effectively integrate the max level character as part of the game world. It could also prove difficult for us as devs to provide adequate ways for nest ant max level characters to earn their proper establishment where it doesn't prove too much of a hindrance to be instant 50. If a player had to exemplar down to early levels to do this, it diminishes the worth of purchasing an instant 50.

It may be possible yet something that may prove unworthwhile if we do our job right with the 1 to max game.


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Every time someone from MWM

Every time someone from MWM weighs in on a topic it makes me feel even more hopeful about the future of this game.

Thanks, Segev. Sounds like an excellent goal. It may take a while to perfect it, but that's ok.

Spurn all ye kindle.

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Segev wrote:
Segev wrote:

I suspect a lot of the "I just want to start at max level" impetus is from the attitude that "the game doesn't start until max level." This stems in no small part from the fact that gameplay seems to change considerably once you do reach that level. So, in effect, those who enjoy the game from 1-max find themselves faced with an entirely new game, while those who want the max-level game are forced to grind through a game they may not want to play in order to get there.
If we do this right, it is my hope that there will be a more unified feel to the game as a whole. Playing from levels 1-max will slowly introduce all the elements that make up the "endgame content," and endgame content will have a lot of tie back to early game content and playstyle, whether directly or through encouraging you to play alts who have ties back up to your max-level PCs.
This is somewhat of a pie-in-the-sky hope, but that is what I would like to aim for: I want this game to feel like a cohesive whole with reason to play it at every level. Even if you have "favorite" levels at which to play it, there should be ways to harken back to that content at higher level, while at the same time alting should be rewarding.

This is why I like Wildstar, because the combat system doesn't really change as you progress through the levels. Sure, the telegraphs that enemies use get more complex (rotating pattern, overlaps, safe spot grid layout) as you go up the levels, so meeting a new telegraph *can* be a shock/surprise... but you learn, you adapt your skill bar, and go back (if you get hammered too much).

And the raids just add more onto it... I have to admit, I did one of the Level 20 dungeons, and there was a part that I saw and went "I cannot do this myself", then I saw the patterns and then realised "Oh, you just need to do *THIS*"... when it clicked, it felt good, and then the group proceeded to complete the dungeon with the tank dead (he ate it hard) and the last boss still on 50% health...

There is a good thing when you can add shields/absorb damage/redirects around to get through those clutch moments... something that I admit I never really felt in City of Heroes apart from when Union first defeated Hamidon, and the 2nd time when we accidentally pulled all the heroes in the LRSF and we managed to come out with 0 deaths... and I then realised that I only had enhancements in 1/2 my powers o.O

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You know what made CoH great?

You know what made CoH great? Everything, Power leveling in CoH was a huge part of the game whether the devs intended it to be that way or not It was like this whole other aspect of the game, it was business. A lot of people played just to power level people and there was a lot that went into it.

pl'rs were well know based on their efficiency, it was awesome. So if they add the ability to just purchase max level your taking out a huge aspect of the game. Of course this is based on if they even have ways to power level.

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I liked the story line of the

I liked the story line of the War Shade and Peace Bringer, plus the ability to morph into different beings. A class of Elite characters beyond normal super heroes would be cool. Utilizing the transformations would be great, White and Black Dwarf, for example, but new creations with new powers. It would give the game that element similar to Thanos, Anti- Monitor, Guardians Of The Galaxy feel.

After maxing a character, these Elite beings will become available to choose from. At least five different styles or categories to choose from would be great. They automatically start out with all their powers.

Making them unlockable and upgradable would be a cool way to obtain them.

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TehGoat wrote:
TehGoat wrote:

You know what made CoH great? Everything, Power leveling in CoH was a huge part of the game whether the devs intended it to be that way or not It was like this whole other aspect of the game, it was business. A lot of people played just to power level people and there was a lot that went into it.
pl'rs were well know based on their efficiency, it was awesome. So if they add the ability to just purchase max level your taking out a huge aspect of the game. Of course this is based on if they even have ways to power level.

Whoa, that was one of the most interesting and unexpected posts ever. It felt a bit like when Magneto saves the crashing Blackbird in X-Men 2: not that either side in the age-old "PL or not-to-PL" argument is the bad guy, but just in the surprise of 2 old opposing camps joining up against a 3rd. As someone who doesn't understand the appeal of PLing, I've often asked people why they do it, and usually the response I get is that they don't enjoy the journey as much as the destination. Although this is the exact opposite of my pov, it makes a certain kind of sense to me. It never occurred to me that some PLers might actually enjoy the PL-style journey.

Spurn all ye kindle.

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There was a guy, now

There was a guy, now tragically no longer with us in the Victory community who would simply run Borea missions on double XP weekends to PL anybody that wanted XP. Some people did enjoy doing that. I would do it to level my own toons in the last year of the game, or if a supergroupie needed some XP to do a TF we had planned, but ibn general preferred to actually play my way up.

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Well I think the character

Well I think the character creation in CoH/CoV was so vast and in depth that for the pvp'rs power leveling was a way to try new builds out. A lot of times i would go into a pvp zone and someone would be terrorizing people with a fire/regen scrapper so what do you do, you go build a dark/fire brute to counter him. There were so many different class combinations that there was always another toon to build. add all that to fact that you could spend hours on mids hero designer build your toon you never ran out of stuff to do.

As for me personally and a few of my friends I myself lv'd up i think it was 3-5 toons doing missions and tf's before i started to PL and even then we still often ran tf's because it was relaxing.

Who remembers running Katie Hannon Task Force all day erry day lol.

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Tannim222 wrote:
Tannim222 wrote:

One of the hopes we have is a to not have a very linear set of missions everyone follows from 1 to 10 and then another set from 10 to 20 and so on. There may be one or several over-arching themes to the story being to,d each each district and set of levels. How each player gets to the same points in the story, or stories being told, may be slightly to incredibly different. As a character is leveled, the choices a player makes determines the character's alignment as well as establishing your reputation with multiple factions.
An instant max level character would have no alignment, no faction rep, no history to speak of. This may prove to be very problematic for the player to effectively integrate the max level character as part of the game world. It could also prove difficult for us as devs to provide adequate ways for nest ant max level characters to earn their proper establishment where it doesn't prove too much of a hindrance to be instant 50. If a player had to exemplar down to early levels to do this, it diminishes the worth of purchasing an instant 50.
It may be possible yet something that may prove unworthwhile if we do our job right with the 1 to max game.

That could be one of the restrictions placed upon such a character. If someone were willing to take this hit in alignment and faction rep then have to work for it, would that really be so bad? It would be their choice to do this. It might be a deterrent for some people to not take it, but others might be willing to go that route. Perhaps someone only wants to gain rep with certain factions, this could give them the chance to go through only certain missions to gain rep with certain people, obviously having to exemplar down to do so.

Or there could be an item in the shop that people could purchase that gives them X amount of Reputation or X amount of Alignment points to allot to their character. This could be another item for MWM to make money as well with. Again, just thinking outside the box and throwing out suggestions.

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oOStaticOo wrote:
oOStaticOo wrote:

Or there could be an item in the shop that people could purchase that gives them X amount of Reputation or X amount of Alignment points to allot to their character. This could be another item for MWM to make money as well with. Again, just thinking outside the box and throwing out suggestions.

No. No no no no no no no! Absolutely NOT!

Bad enough you're suggesting a purchasable maximum level, now you want to be able to buy reputation and alignment points? Why not just be able to customize a character's every single bit of data up to and including what missions they 'completed' on their way to the top then buy that character at max! Such a GREAT idea that isn't too far off from what you're suggesting.

I know, make it a $60 purchase and call it the 'Why bother playing?' pack!

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I am in no way advocating

I am in no way advocating that this be a cheap and easy option. Obviously it has to come down to the individual to decide whether or not it is worth their money or time to choose which way they want to go. If content may be gated behind Alignment or Reputation then it makes sense to have something that you might be able to purchase to affect that. If you don't have enough reputation to do certain content that your friends are doing and you'd like to join them then wouldn't you like to be able to do something to make that possible instead of having to grind through hours of content so you can finally play with them only to have them log because you took too long? Same goes with Alignment. Even CoH had a purchasable token that would allow you to switch from Hero to Villain and vice versa.

Again, you misconstrue what I say and blow it out of proportion. I have in no way even made any suggestions about how much reputation or alignment is gained from such a purchase. I just merely threw that out there because of the comment made about people having to go backwards to gain reputation and alignment for fear of being locked out of participating in certain content. Choices. That's what I'm advocating here. If people have the money to throw around then why not have ways for them to use it to support a game they love? Obviously there will be the penny pinchers that will try to maximize their spending to get the most game play for their dollar. Then there will be those that have the income to be able to splurge and buy frivolous items willy nilly because they want to contribute to the development of the game.

Purchasing a Max Level Character and then purchasing Reputation Tokens and Alignment Tokens could cost someone around $100.00. Would it be feasible for the average Joe? Probably not. But for the person who does have that kind of income and doesn't mind, it could be an option. I'm just trying to help find ways for MWM to be able to cater to everybody's wants and also make money for future development as well. Knee jerk reactions really do not help.

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The (perhaps "unfortunate")

The (perhaps "unfortunate") side-effect of building a game to have a lot of replay value and to keep players occupied and entertained for many hundreds of hours (and on into infinity, as our goal is to have the game operate out to the best of our future-forecast horizon) is that there will be content that you can't hit on one "run-through" of the game. You won't be able, on one character in one play-through, to test every build. We hope to give you some flexibility within the build you've chosen and around the build options you're currently making so that you don't feel "trapped," but there will be reasons to build different characters with different power sets.

Likewise, you will have reason to design characters of differing alignments, with different relationships to the various factions.

The goal is to have it so that there is always - or at least very often - something new to be doing with your new PC. The flip-side of that is that you will sometimes need to build new PCs to approach different content. The game will, eventually, just be too big to "see it all" in one level-up stream.

That said, I do hope to have it be feasible to keep playing your first PC for the entire run of CoT; the mechanisms for that are still in the works. I want to avoid it being thought of as an "endgame," however, by avoiding having it be a drastic change from what you were doing while leveling up. I would like it to be higher-powered, perhaps with more options of gameplay, but not to be something you ever feel a need to "power-level" to get to. This is one of the primary challenges we're discussing as designers: how to build a game that rewards leveling and the journey without making the journey feel like something to skip.

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Segev wrote:
Segev wrote:

The (perhaps "unfortunate") side-effect of building a game to have a lot of replay value and to keep players occupied and entertained for many hundreds of hours (and on into infinity, as our goal is to have the game operate out to the best of our future-forecast horizon) is that there will be content that you can't hit on one "run-through" of the game. You won't be able, on one character in one play-through, to test every build. We hope to give you some flexibility within the build you've chosen and around the build options you're currently making so that you don't feel "trapped," but there will be reasons to build different characters with different power sets.
Likewise, you will have reason to design characters of differing alignments, with different relationships to the various factions.
The goal is to have it so that there is always - or at least very often - something new to be doing with your new PC. The flip-side of that is that you will sometimes need to build new PCs to approach different content. The game will, eventually, just be too big to "see it all" in one level-up stream.

To me, there's nothing even remotely parenthetically unfortunate about that. I'd tout it as a major selling point. Lack of this characteristic has made me quit other MMOs.

Spurn all ye kindle.

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This may be unfortunate for

This may be unfortunate for those people who refuse to create alts, but on the whole I agree with Cinnder. As I've said before, it was the Rogue Isles, where I began to see leveling with some dread after my second or third villain, were unfortunate.

It may prove to be unnecessary, but I will request some means to track contacts or story lines on the meta level, if this is at all possible. I imagine this could be as simple as an indicator of how many contacts there are any any given zone and which contacts other characters on that account had already met. Then I wouldn't have to worry that I'm missing out on content.

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Segev wrote:
Segev wrote:

The (perhaps "unfortunate") side-effect of building a game to have a lot of replay value and to keep players occupied and entertained for many hundreds of hours (and on into infinity, as our goal is to have the game operate out to the best of our future-forecast horizon) is that there will be content that you can't hit on one "run-through" of the game. You won't be able, on one character in one play-through, to test every build. We hope to give you some flexibility within the build you've chosen and around the build options you're currently making so that you don't feel "trapped," but there will be reasons to build different characters with different power sets.
Likewise, you will have reason to design characters of differing alignments, with different relationships to the various factions.
The goal is to have it so that there is always - or at least very often - something new to be doing with your new PC. The flip-side of that is that you will sometimes need to build new PCs to approach different content. The game will, eventually, just be too big to "see it all" in one level-up stream.
That said, I do hope to have it be feasible to keep playing your first PC for the entire run of CoT; the mechanisms for that are still in the works. I want to avoid it being thought of as an "endgame," however, by avoiding having it be a drastic change from what you were doing while leveling up. I would like it to be higher-powered, perhaps with more options of gameplay, but not to be something you ever feel a need to "power-level" to get to. This is one of the primary challenges we're discussing as designers: how to build a game that rewards leveling and the journey without making the journey feel like something to skip.

Upon reading this, I said to myself "I am once again re-assured that my Kickstarter money was well-spent."

Best of luck to you all in this effort, and thanks.

R.S.O. of Phoenix Rising

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Darth Fez wrote:
Darth Fez wrote:

This may be unfortunate for those people who refuse to create alts, but on the whole I agree with Cinnder. As I've said before, it was the Rogue Isles, where I began to see leveling with some dread after my second or third villain, were unfortunate.
It may prove to be unnecessary, but I will request some means to track contacts or story lines on the meta level, if this is at all possible. I imagine this could be as simple as an indicator of how many contacts there are any any given zone and which contacts other characters on that account had already met. Then I wouldn't have to worry that I'm missing out on content.

How about dynamic in-game career development maps?

These would be a combination of mind-maps and skill trees (Civ 5 comes to mind for the latter).
Except the "skill(s)" would be the various contacts, zones, ally/nemesis factions to encounter.

Some degree of any toon's "map" would be subject to the Fog of War; only to be revealed as actual in-game experiences allow.

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Darth Fez wrote:
Darth Fez wrote:

It may prove to be unnecessary, but I will request some means to track contacts or story lines on the meta level, if this is at all possible. I imagine this could be as simple as an indicator of how many contacts there are any any given zone and which contacts other characters on that account had already met. Then I wouldn't have to worry that I'm missing out on content.

I have no objection to this as long as it is optional/hide-able. I would not want such information to be displayed to me unless I specifically went looking for it. I would find it quite immersion-breaking if there were some sort of "1 of 12" display when I met my first contact in a zone. But I don't want to deprive others that would like such info from being able to find it. Kind of like when CoX gave us the option to see the numbers: we could decide which (if any) we wanted to display.

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Catherine America wrote:
Catherine America wrote:

How about dynamic in-game career development maps?
These would be a combination of mind-maps and skill trees (Civ 5 comes to mind for the latter).
Except the "skill(s)" would be the various contacts, zones, ally/nemesis factions to encounter.
Some degree of any toon's "map" would be subject to the Fog of War; only to be revealed as actual in-game experiences allow.

I would go for something like that, if it isn't too much work and doesn't create any problems for future additions.

I imagine any such information would be in its own tab or section somewhere, so people would have to go looking for it to see it. I wouldn't want such information to be omnipresent, either.

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Double XP is really one of

Double XP is really one of those things that boosts player participation, but doesn't really unbalance the game. Not like having complete newbs at max level with no enhancements and no idea what all the powers they chose do; cf Winterlords (2004)

Especially after your CoH hero/villain reached their thirties, it didn't really make the leveling that much faster. What DID make a difference was having a great team that could ride the purple wall and stayed together for more than two missions. That was where the levels came from during Double XP weekend.

Those kinds of leveling teams were much more likely to form during Double XP, but you could, knowing the right people, get levels like that anytime. As any farmer can tell you, persistence is more important than ability.

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I PL'd for three specific

I PL'd for three specific reasons: 1) I was planning on running a TF with my mates but the toon I wanted to play wasn't high enough yet (happened a couple of times). 2) I was in a level slump and needed to hit a benchmark (happened almost every time I hit the low 30s until Level Balancing, almost never after that). 3) I was trying out a new concept (I did this a LOT).

This last one was very specific for me. I want to see if I can make an Ill/Rad work and if I like to play them. I don't want to wait the weeks it might take me to get to any appreciable level so I get PL'd. Once I get to about 35ish I slot out the powers with SOs and tool around checking it out. If it's fun and playable even with my deplorable lack of experience with the toon I sell everything off, recreate the toon with a REAL name and background then start over. If my toon had a background you knew it was a keeper.

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Point 3 is the primary reason

Point 3 is the primary reason I would PL. For controllers, in particular, it was difficult to get a proper read on how the power sets functioned until the character was around level 30. While PLing was particularly easy during the early days of AE I went a little nuts with, "Oh, I'll try out that build!"

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Ideally, it won't require a

Ideally, it won't require a certain minimum level for a given build to come online in the sense that Darth Fez mentioned. You should be able to have fun with and see how a build is working from the get-go. Whether we'll manage to achieve that or not remains to be seen, but we'll be trying.

I have a few ideas we've bounced around a few times which might help with those who just want a taste of how something plays through all the levels, as well. I don't think it's quite ready for public consumption even on a "here's an idea" level, yet, though.

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I would still like to see

I would still like to see that if there is a possibility that some content might be locked behind certain levels, alignment, or reputation that there might be some way we could do something to be able to make any character we are playing able to have access to that content. If it means purchasing an alignment change token, a reputation token, a level token, or several of those tokens, it should be considered as an option. There are a lot of people that do not like to Alt, or that find one character in particular happens to be their favorite. These people shouldn't be punished and denied access to content that should be available to everybody.

I'm going to use WoW as an example. I had 4 other friends I started playing WoW with after City closed down. Some of us got paired together so that we could take advantage of the 3X XP gain when paired. Unfortunately we all couldn't get on at the exact same time all the time. So some of us would level faster than the others. In doing so we couldn't team as effectively as we could while around the same level. If CoT has the ability to experience different paths based on decisions made by your character then two people who are friends with each other and want to team with each other may not be able to do so as effectively.

If person 1 decides to start killing Hellions, for example, and Person 2 decides to kill Skulls then they have split their path and it might lead down a road that certain missions conflict with each other thereby affecting their characters differently. Person 1 has 8 hours a day to play CoT where Person 2 only has 2 hours a day. Person 1 will now out level Person 2, again possibly affecting the outcome of the different characters making teaming more difficult. Person 1 will now have more reputation with different factions or 1 in particular that will greatly affect Person 2's character.

It became increasingly frustrating between my friends and I trying to play WoW and maintain characters that were of similar level that we all could play with at the same time. I can see this becoming a possible frustration with CoT as well, unless I am completely misconstruing the information I have been given or do not have all the information. Which is why I'm proposing some of the suggestions in this thread. Hopefully to minimize this amount of frustration and help make the game more enjoyable for everybody to play.

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There has been a lot of

There has been a lot of thought given to how to allow players to share content with each other across factional divides. This is not an easy problem, but is most likely to be handled by letting people in parties together do content to which any of them have access, at least wrt faction association. If Lex Luthor tells the League of Doom that he's working with Batman on something mutually beneficial, then the League of Doom isn't going to refuse to allow Batman access to the mission they need done. If Wonder Woman finds she has a mission for the Justice League but Harley Quinn wants to help, Wonder Woman can invite her along.

Level discrepancies are best handled by something akin to pulling lowbies up or reducing high-level players down to match party level. But again, we're still exploring options.

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oOStaticOo wrote:
oOStaticOo wrote:

If person 1 decides to start killing Hellions, for example, and Person 2 decides to kill Skulls then they have split their path and it might lead down a road that certain missions conflict with each other thereby affecting their characters differently. Person 1 has 8 hours a day to play CoT where Person 2 only has 2 hours a day. Person 1 will now out level Person 2, again possibly affecting the outcome of the different characters making teaming more difficult. Person 1 will now have more reputation with different factions or 1 in particular that will greatly affect Person 2's character.

On the one hand, I understand this frustration and share the concerns, especially with regards to the paths. On the other hand, players need to take responsibility for their own actions instead of foisting all the problems on the developers and expecting them to come up with answers. If Person 1 decides to out-level Person 2, and is then frustrated that he now out-levels Person 2, he reminds me of nothing so much as a child who complains he has no cookies because he ate them all yesterday. In any event, this particular example should be a non-issue since sidekicking will presumably be available at launch.

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I was speaking more from

I was speaking more from Person 2's perspective as they would be the one suffering not Person 1. Obviously Person 1 chose to do what they did and don't really have any regrets doing it, but Person 2 is now at the disadvantage and it wasn't through any fault of theirs other than just having lack of playing time.

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Personally, I'm not a huge

Personally, I'm not a huge fan of leveling pacts etc anyway. People are impossible to organize and pin down to specific dates with any reliability, especially when it comes to any kind of recreation. The fact is, on CoX you couldn't even expect a TF to quit for the day up and reform the next day or whatever like they first thought. You have to strike while the iron is hot and play with the people who are on at the time, every time. I know this may sound harsh, but if people want to level together they have to force themselves NOT to play those toons UNLESS they're together, or it doesn't work. If you're not both on at the same time, playing, then you're not "playing together" no matter what the devs try to offer you in terms of XP, etc.

The only solution to this problem that I feel works is to simply make alts, and if you want to promise someone that you won't outlevel them, then you have to discipline yourselves NOT to play those particular toons when the other person is not on, for any reason. If you do that and your friend screws you by playing when you're not around, that's between you and your friend, and the devs shouldn't feel obliged to do something about it. If you and I decide not to go see Avengers: Age of Ultron until we can both find the time to see it together, then I'm screwing you if I go see it without you, but that's not Marvel's fault and they shouldn't need to do anything about it.

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Well said, Radiac. My friend

Well said, Radiac. My friend and I had sooo many pairs of characters with intertwined stories we'd level together, and also had several free-running characters who we'd get on while one of us wasn't on. Sometimes we'd play our free-running character with a "paired character" of the same level because we were in the mood to play that style of character, and didn't feel like switching. If one of my paired characters went 5 levels over his, I'd switch characters. 99% of the time we would always play paired characters though while we were both on. We'd be too pumped in the story to play anyone else. We tried to not think about it too much, but we had some loose rules so we wouldn't piss on each other. "Never play this character if I wasn't on, and I'll do the same." We would actually send texts if the other wasn't on, "Hey man, I really want to play my paired character, is that cool? Got a team he'd be perfect for." "Yeah, that's fine, I'll catch up." We never used leveling pact though. We just respected each other. If someone has a friend who doesn't give a shit, then no matter what MMO they play, it will suck for them to constantly be trying to catch up for it, and holding back. No need for MWM to compensate for this.

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There is no harm in keeping

There is no harm in keeping this idea on the radar. If it should ever become requested enough that MWM feels it is worth introducing such a feature, and they can do so without causing problems, then that's that. Of course, by that point this discussion will be ancient history and the suggestion will be considered a 'new' idea.

I don't see this happening, but then I didn't think the Brazil vs Germany match would look like the Omega initiation scene from "Animal House", either.

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One last comment, leveling

One last comment, leveling pacts etc are probably unnecessary if you have a sidekick/exemplar system, right? As long as you and your friend can actually team up and do content together (yours or theirs) then you can still enjoy the game together.

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Sure, but sometimes my friend

Sure, but sometimes my friend and I can't sync our schedules to play the paired characters. Our Leveling Pact allowed us to play together or apart and continue to level, if Slowly, when apart. If someone has extra homework to do, or a family-thing, or overtime at work, they can post a message to their partner about the extra Day Job time and the partner can choose what to do.

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But the xp gain was so slow.

But the xp gain was so slow. I never kept any characters I made pacts with.

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I've had the experience of

I've had the experience of all three 'situations' in a Pact.

I've played regular duos, where the combined powers caused the experience to roll in in Torrents and we'd mutually double-ding at least once in each playing session. Another character Pacted with someone who played a LOT more than me. Every time I logged in, I'd be facing a 5 or even 10-level jump, all of my enhancements would be Junk and I'd have to, effectively, completely respec - Thank the gods for Mids! Also, thank my 'Super Class President', she made it an interesting ride.

Then there's the one where I Pacted with a friend that played Less than I did. As a player that enjoys the Content, I only felt a little retarded in my growth. I got 'full' use of every set of Enhancements, and got to play a lot of the stories that I would have otherwise passed by. In fact, I got to play some stories Twice, as my Pact Partner showed up and asked, 'So, what have we been doing lately?'

So, I found Leveling Pacts to be enjoyable. Not something I'd want to do with Every character. Probably not something I'd do with my 'Main', unless I could definitely count on the consistent and regular presence of my Pact-mate, regardless of whether we were actually playing on the same team all the time. I would certainly approve of some form of this system in CoT.

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Radiac wrote:
Radiac wrote:

One last comment, leveling pacts etc are probably unnecessary if you have a sidekick/exemplar system, right? As long as you and your friend can actually team up and do content together (yours or theirs) then you can still enjoy the game together.

It's not about doing the content together. Sure side kicking solved that. But my wife and I loved leveling characters together. We we quite disappointed when that feature was taken away. It let us have two characters the exact same level with out having to worry about debt or an arc bonus putting someone behind or ahead. As an added bonus, I could play the pact character so lo and help both simultaneously. I am certain we wern't the only pair of players out there who felt the same way.

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Slightly off topic but

Slightly off topic but Levelling Pacts did have their place.
Not everyone liked them due to the slowness when 1 person wasn't online but it was FAIR.
Each person gets half the XP and INF (cant remember how drops worked?). Unless the person playing gets 60% or 70% or 80% of the XP but then you will out level the other player anyway which defeats the purpose.

Id rather the game eventually have this feature in some form than not. If people want to use it for whatever their reason then let them do so. If you don't want to then don't. But discussing Level Pacts are for a different Topic.

Back to talking about buying your way to Max Level :)

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syntaxerror37 wrote:
syntaxerror37 wrote:

It's not about doing the content together. Sure side kicking solved that. But my wife and I loved leveling characters together. We we quite disappointed when that feature was taken away. It let us have two characters the exact same level with out having to worry about debt or an arc bonus putting someone behind or ahead. As an added bonus, I could play the pact character so lo and help both simultaneously. I am certain we wern't the only pair of players out there who felt the same way.

+1 for Leveling Pacts.

But.... If One player is getting the XP for Both of them, there should be a BreadWinner Accolade. ;D
Or name the accolade something like: EXperienced Breeder. ;)

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Yes, I was not really talking

Yes, I was not really talking about leveling pacts. I was using WoW as an example to illustrate a point about having friends that played and then not being able to join in on their fun because they out leveled me and I had no way to catch up to them. WoW may be a poor example because the end game is the main game for most WoW players.

Think of it more in terms of ITF. One, you couldn't get to Cimerora unless you found a way to unlock the Midnight Club by doing a mission. Two, it was level locked to level 35 and above. So, let's say you have a Super Group that frequently runs ITF's. Or a group of friends. You on the other hand are level 32. You've unlocked the mission to allow you access to Cimerora, but aren't the right level to join them. You REALLY want to join them. The Cash Shop just happens to sell a 3 level booster token for $9.99. Guess what, you just happen to have $10 in your account. Now you can join your friends instead of having to wait days or weeks, depending on the frequency in which you play, to join them.

Now let's say that CoT has similar instances. Some content is locked away behind reputation with certain factions. You don't quite have enough reputation to be able to join them. Wouldn't you like to have some way to be able to obtain that reputation in a faster way than spending hours, days, weeks, or months before being able to join all your friends doing that content? MWM wants people to Alt. I get that. I am not against that. But what about those players that don't want to Alt? What about the ones that only make one character and only play that one character? There are some out there. Are they just doomed to never be able to access all the content? Seems kind of unfair to me.

I understand that it is their choice to make that they only play the one character, but why keep them from being able to experience parts of the game with their friends? Would it really be that terrible of a thing to have a token that you could purchase that would affect reputation with a certain faction to allow you to experience the content tied to them? Perhaps they would have to even purchase several of those tokens to affect reputation enough.

Ultimately I just think that if there is a possibility of having some content locked behind Alignment, Reputation, or Level there should be some way to be able to affect that through game play and purchase through the cash store. I know it's not for everybody, but there are people that I think would like for it to happen. This topic was introduced in hopes that we could talk it out and come to some kind of compromise about how this might be able to be implemented with the least amount of friction possible. I suggest the extreme in hopes that someone else will come back with a more reasonable suggestion instead. Much like bartering goes. You hit me low, I hit you high, until we find a common middle ground we can all agree upon.

I got chills! They're multiplyin'. And I'm losin' control. Cuz the power, I'm supplyin'. Why it's ELECTRIFYIN'!!

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oOStaticOo wrote:
oOStaticOo wrote:

The Cash Shop just happens to sell a 3 level booster token for $9.99.

No Pay to Win, please. I accept Exp Boosters, like 2XP Weekends. I'll even grant you purchased experience multipliers, but no 'buying' experience. Experience must be earned, it's not for sale.

If your buddies really want to play with you, they'll PL you.

Be Well!
Fireheart

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oOStaticOo wrote:
oOStaticOo wrote:

... I suggest the extreme in hopes that someone else will come back with a more reasonable suggestion instead. Much like bartering goes. You hit me low, I hit you high, until we find a common middle ground we can all agree upon.

Hmmm...

Q: Under which conditions would we finally see +3 Level Tokens in the In-Game store?

A: I think we might see them only when the games Max Level has reached well over 150 Levels. ;D
...As well as only Usable on toons that are below level 10. ;)

At level range 11-20 it would be reduced down to a +2 Levels Token.
..21-30, reduced down to +1 Level Token.
... etc...

And they All would cost the same, close to $18. ;)

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OK, after having said posts

OK, after having said posts from rednames always make me feel better, I do have some personal concerns regarding the following two:

Segev wrote:

Ideally, it won't require a certain minimum level for a given build to come online in the sense that Darth Fez mentioned. You should be able to have fun with and see how a build is working from the get-go. Whether we'll manage to achieve that or not remains to be seen, but we'll be trying.
I have a few ideas we've bounced around a few times which might help with those who just want a taste of how something plays through all the levels, as well. I don't think it's quite ready for public consumption even on a "here's an idea" level, yet, though.

I understand that some people felt they didn't really know their characters till 30+ because of the way powers were gained. Not quite sure why this means so much to those folks, but I respect their desires and would definitely support whatever the "taste" mechanic is that Segev refers to, even if I wouldn't use it myself. What would worry me would be if all power sets had their basic "feel" from the get-go, and there were no major plateaus to reach for, like a troller's pet, an End drain, Hibernate, etc. I loved that feeling of increased power from reaching a game-changing ability. Would hate for CoT to feel like some other MMOs, where you get your first few powers early and everything from there is either a variant or just a minor numerical increase.

Segev wrote:

There has been a lot of thought given to how to allow players to share content with each other across factional divides. This is not an easy problem, but is most likely to be handled by letting people in parties together do content to which any of them have access, at least wrt faction association. If Lex Luthor tells the League of Doom that he's working with Batman on something mutually beneficial, then the League of Doom isn't going to refuse to allow Batman access to the mission they need done. If Wonder Woman finds she has a mission for the Justice League but Harley Quinn wants to help, Wonder Woman can invite her along.

This one doesn't actually worry me so much, as long as content doesn't start to get all vanilla-ised so that absolutely everything is co-op by nature, as it tended to be in late CoX. I understand that folks want to be able to play together, but the more devs are forced to make every bit of content playable by every character, the more their hands are tied in what kind of stories they can write, and the more generic everything becomes. I think Darth Fez's comment about taking responsibility for actions/choices should apply to alignment as well. (E.g. if I want to do something like CoX's mayhem mission, my character should have to be a villiain.) Now, if there are mechanics that allow someone who prefers to play just one character to alter the character to provide access to content (such as sidekicking or alignment change), I'm all for that. I just don't want the content to be 'nerfed' such that everything applies to every character.

I also appreciate unlocks like getting to Cimerora because, again, it seems like there is more to accomplish than just 'another mission' -- however, it's no skin off my nose if someone can purchase such access instead of earning it in-game. As for minimum level requirements for TFs, I was never quite sure why they had those, but assumed it was something to do with combat balance.(?)

Spurn all ye kindle.

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Cinnder wrote:
Cinnder wrote:

I understand that some people felt they didn't really know their characters till 30+ because of the way powers were gained. Not quite sure why this means so much to those folks, but I respect their desires and would definitely support whatever the "taste" mechanic is that Segev refers to, even if I wouldn't use it myself. What would worry me would be if all power sets had their basic "feel" from the get-go, and there were no major plateaus to reach for, like a troller's pet, an End drain, Hibernate, etc. I loved that feeling of increased power from reaching a game-changing ability. Would hate for CoT to feel like some other MMOs, where you get your first few powers early and everything from there is either a variant or just a minor numerical increase.

There certainly is a balance to be struck between the character changing and growing, and potentially even obtaining game-changing powers, and the character becoming fundamentally different from one level to the next. As should be obvious now, controllers are my poster boy for the latter case. Admittedly my experience with controllers is limited but, as I've mentioned elsewhere, I typically felt that I was struggling along until I got the one power (e.g. fire monkeys) and then the character suddenly graduated to becoming a superhero.

I certainly do not object to a character obtaining a nuke, or equivalent, at level 32. I do see it as a problem if that nuke is the primary, or perhaps even only real, offensive/damaging power. A similar example would be if a defense character did not obtain mez resistance until level 32.

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Cinnder wrote:
Cinnder wrote:

I understand that some people felt they didn't really know their characters till 30+ because of the way powers were gained.

(...)

What would worry me would be if all power sets had their basic "feel" from the get-go, and there were no major plateaus to reach for, like a troller's pet, an End drain, Hibernate, etc. I loved that feeling of increased power from reaching a game-changing ability. Would hate for CoT to feel like some other MMOs, where you get your first few powers early and everything from there is either a variant or just a minor numerical increase.

I certainly understand that concern. I should, perhaps, have noted that this isn't an easy problem to solve, either. However, what I mean is that you'll be able to say, "This feels like the kind of character I wanted to play" from the get-go. Absolutely, there will be things you have to "work" to get. That's the point of a level-based system: to have those moments when you finally achieve that awesome power.

My hope, however, is that these won't represent an entire shift in the paradigm of the build. You won't say, "Well, for now I'm playing this sort of ranged debuffing character, but when I hit level 30, I'm going to pick up the game-changing super-blind power that will let me sneak past groups of enemies when I'm on my own and will let me be a meleeist because they can't counterattack me when I'm in a party." Instead, you might go from sneaking past enemies carefully at lower level, but at level 30 be able to sneak a whole party past them. (Note, this is off the top of my head, and I know they're not good examples.)

Take the CoV Mastermind: from the get-go, you had one minion. I probably would have preferred starting with 3 and going up to 5 rather than starting with 1 and going up to 3, but at least you had something of the "boss who delegates" going for you from level 1. Those plateaus where you got more minions or even new minion powers were quite fun, and felt like power ups, but they didn't change the "feel" of the build.

Cinnder wrote:

This one doesn't actually worry me so much, as long as content doesn't start to get all vanilla-ised so that absolutely everything is co-op by nature, as it tended to be in late CoX. I understand that folks want to be able to play together, but the more devs are forced to make every bit of content playable by every character, the more their hands are tied in what kind of stories they can write, and the more generic everything becomes. I think Darth Fez's comment about taking responsibility for actions/choices should apply to alignment as well. (E.g. if I want to do something like CoX's mayhem mission, my character should have to be a villiain.) Now, if there are mechanics that allow someone who prefers to play just one character to alter the character to provide access to content (such as sidekicking or alignment change), I'm all for that. I just don't want the content to be 'nerfed' such that everything applies to every character.

At the most basic implementation, the way this content would become available to those who didn't have the right factional affiliations or heroic/villainous alignment would be by teaming with those who DID. It should be noted that doing so risks altering your faction ratings and your alignment, however; there are consequences for choices. We will be seeking to prevent griefers from ruining others' experiences in PUGs by hopping in and doing alignment-questionable things to ruin the mission for those playing it straight, and that's one of those hard parts of this. But the actual "my friend wants to play this mission over here, but can't due to being distrusted by the faction involved" issue is resolved by having you be the party leader and taking him along.

If you can't find a group doing the mission you want, you may well have to alt. There are issues with playing a MMO as a solo game AND trying to play only one character AND trying to get all the content in one play-through. We don't want to tell people they can't play how they want to, but there are limits to what can be accommodated in a game. The options to play that content will exist, but it will require playing within the game's structure in one way or another to get to them.

(I don't think anybody is complaining about that. I'm just pointing out that for there to be a game, there have to be some things that require strategy and willingness to try new things to experience.)

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Fireheart wrote:
Fireheart wrote:

oOStaticOo wrote:
The Cash Shop just happens to sell a 3 level booster token for $9.99.
No Pay to Win, please. I accept Exp Boosters, like 2XP Weekends. I'll even grant you purchased experience multipliers, but no 'buying' experience. Experience must be earned, it's not for sale.
If your buddies really want to play with you, they'll PL you.
Be Well!
Fireheart

Let me ask you this.

Would you rather pay MWM $15 to go from level 1 to 35 or some random stranger on Paypal? Because I guarantee you there will be people that will more than likely be standing around the starting zone advertising for PL services, or offering them somewhere quietly on a different website.

I got chills! They're multiplyin'. And I'm losin' control. Cuz the power, I'm supplyin'. Why it's ELECTRIFYIN'!!

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oOStaticOo wrote:
oOStaticOo wrote:

Would you rather pay MWM $15 to go from level 1 to 35 or some random stranger on Paypal? Because I guarantee you there will be people that will more than likely be standing around the starting zone advertising for PL services, or offering them somewhere quietly on a different website.

Although that is a point, I was under the impression most PLing in CoH was done by friends, Players for Inf, Players who just enjoyed PLing other people, or by dual boxing 2 accounts.

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I've seen all forms of PL.

I've seen all forms of PL. Including the one I mentioned. You can't always get your friends on at the same time you want a PL. Some people don't have the millions of inf to use to buy a PL. Some don't have the ability to maintain more than one account. So if you happen to have $15 just sitting on a credit card or checking account somewhere and someone gives you that option......

I got chills! They're multiplyin'. And I'm losin' control. Cuz the power, I'm supplyin'. Why it's ELECTRIFYIN'!!

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Segev wrote:
Segev wrote:

...*[lots of good stuff]*...

Allow me to return to my earlier scheduled program of "Always Feel Better Once a Redname Posts."

Thanks, Segev.

Darth Fez wrote:

There certainly is a balance to be struck between the character changing and growing, and potentially even obtaining game-changing powers, and the character becoming fundamentally different from one level to the next. As should be obvious now, controllers are my poster boy for the latter case. Admittedly my experience with controllers is limited but, as I've mentioned elsewhere, I typically felt that I was struggling along until I got the one power (e.g. fire monkeys) and then the character suddenly graduated to becoming a superhero.

Although I never felt the same way (and I soloed an Illusion/Sonic troller -- where a large number of his Secondary powers were useless as a solo character), I can see why some might struggle with such a character pre-pet.

Spurn all ye kindle.

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oOStaticOo wrote:
oOStaticOo wrote:

Fireheart wrote:
oOStaticOo wrote:
The Cash Shop just happens to sell a 3 level booster token for $9.99.

No Pay to Win, please. I accept Exp Boosters, like 2XP Weekends. I'll even grant you purchased experience multipliers, but no 'buying' experience. Experience must be earned, it's not for sale.
If your buddies really want to play with you, they'll PL you.
Be Well!
Fireheart

Let me ask you this.
Would you rather pay MWM $15 to go from level 1 to 35 or some random stranger on Paypal? Because I guarantee you there will be people that will more than likely be standing around the starting zone advertising for PL services, or offering them somewhere quietly on a different website.

Anyone who uses third-party services gets what they deserve.

Be Well!
Fireheart

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The point about power

The point about power-leveling third-party services is one that we are aware of. If anything ever spurs us to allow such purchases in the game-store, it will be that. I don't know that it ever will; we'd have to come up with a way that this was paying for an option rather than "pay to win," and that's not something we've even got a rough idea on yet. Worse, the most "obvious" solutions are things like, "well, you're buying your way PAST content you might enjoy," but at that point that feels more like punishing people for spending money on a product we're selling. So it's not a good solution nor answer to justify selling it while claiming not to be "pay-to-win."

In short, I don't (yet) have even a moderately good answer to how we might implement something to cut the PL-sellers out. It is therefore not currently planned. I do acknowledge that it is a valid point that such "services" will exist if MWM does not provide them, and that it's probably better if MWM is the one profiting from it (and, moreover, if the players aren't enticed to risk their security with third parties). But the downsides to simply saying "sure, we sell levels" are too many to approach it that cavalierly.

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Segev wrote:
Segev wrote:

...In short, I don't (yet) have even a moderately good answer to how we might implement something to cut the PL-sellers out. It is therefore not currently planned. ...

I wouldn't mind discussing my approach for Active and Passive states (post 77), or some variation of it. ;)

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I never really cared that

I never really cared that people were offering PLing for real cash.
I never took part of it and people should understand that by doing so they are breaking the Terms/Conditions of playing the game and that anything negative is their own fault. If CoT decided to penalise those caught using those services then so be it. Break the law and suffer the consequences.
Get taken for a ride and have your entire account hijacked and your toons/IO's/INF/Store Currency stolen... for sure tell CoT so they can take your account back but if they cant/wont give you all your stuff back then tough.

The only thing that annoyed me was their blatant Broadcasting of their services, those and the RMT services. Maybe give the players the ability to 'Report - RMT' and 'Report - PL' and if enough are registered in a given time period (say 15 reports from different people in 5 mins) then that account is blocked from Broadcasting for 30 mins. If people get griefed (incorrectly reported) they can submit a request to be unblocked.

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