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Chain Melee powerset

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Izzy
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Chain Melee powerset

*I dont know how things will work in CoT, so i'll use CoH for reference where i can.

I posted on the CoH Forums my idea for the Chain Melee power-set. I'm not sure i recalled all of them but here goes nothing:

Jaw Crack or Whapped whip and slapped ;)
Melee. Minor DMG. Fast chain swing across Foes face.
Later on, an alternate Martial Arts animation could have you spin once in place and as you finish the one twirl in place motion, the end of the chain hits foe across the face. (more to come)

Note: As each powers animation ends... it can transition to a sort of Idle Stance animation, where you are slowly spinning one end of the chain with your right or left hand, if you don't que up another power. ;)
Also, as long as the animations are of equal length, animation designers can use pauses or control the tween all they want, just as long as they can sell it. :D And I dont mind seeing a semi transparent black (or user chosen color/effect) streak of the chain either. The chains Streak can be anything from Fire to a Windy Streak (blurs background) or other effects.

Daze or Head Splitter or Bell Ringer
Melee. Moderate DMG. Disorient (on Leuts works 3/10 times). Chain swings over and hits the top of Foes Head.
Later on, an alternate Martial Arts animation can show player swing the chain also overhead but add a cross over so that the chain comes to the players opposite side of the hand that swung the chain. (more to come)

Whiplash
Ranged. High DMG. Snares Foe in chain and yanks him/her to you. The opposite of KnockBack. Err.. KnockForward! (or Pull) ;)
Later on, an alternate Martial Arts animation could be added that shows you snaring the foe, but instead of Tugging with just your hands, you could forcefully step on the chain with your leg to tug the Foe to you. (more to come)

Taunt

Tension
+ToHit. +DMG. BuildUp. Raises Chain with both hands while tugging on it. Bonus would be hearing audio of him/her yelling Arrrgggghhh! as they raise the chain up and do the tugging of it. Think 'Mad Max: Beyond Thunderdome' or 'Weird Science, biker dude'.

An audio Example of a Female making that sound can be heard here 3 seconds into the music score. (just a tad shorter though) (more to come)

Choker
Ranged. Hold (on Leuts works 8/10 times). High DoT DMG. Snares Foe with Chain (around Neck) and while pulling on it, end of chain breaks off and sits around Foes neck for a time. Foe struggles to get it off. (more to come)

Whirly Bird
AoE. KnockDown / KnockBack (on Leuts works 6/10 times). Moderate DMG. Swing chain over head knocking All nearby Foes in the head.
Later on, alternate animations can be added.. such as a Martial Arts type of movement, where you hold the chain with 2 hands and twirl around and the ends of the chain extend out clocking Foes in the head and torso. (more to come)

Jaw Breaker or Lights Out or Knock Out (K.O.)
Melee. High Chance of KnockUp (on Bosses works 6/10 times). Superior DMG. Swing chain from bottom upward hitting Foe in the Jaw and sends him flying. (more to come)

I know that other melee types always try to see which power they can skip to substitute for a Power pools power, so the first 3 powers might have less damage in them, but for Tanks they could have a DeBuffs of sorts. (i.e. for 'Jaw Crack' or maybe 'Daze')

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It looks like you have a good

It looks like you have a good melee/crowd control powerset there. It's been talked about and has been a subject perceptibly popular enough to be introduced into the game. It's good to see we have an official thread for this now.


Now, onto that moveset of yours...

I always thought that a chain melee powerset would incorporate lots of close-range attacks, so the base range for a lot of these could be 12 feet instead of the generic melee range of 7 feet. I've seen the Head Splitter and Jaw Breaker powers on CoH, and it's a tad difficult to see a chain doing either of those without a weight or a lot of momentum. I'd reckon that if the character spun the chain segment fast enough he could build up enough velocity to do that. Jaw Crack would likely suffice as this powerset's more realistic version of Jaw Breaker, given how the attack could end up lowering defense and disorienting the target. Whiplash is right up this set's alley, as are Choker and Tension. (I assume Tension is when your character grabs his opponent's wrist to encourage him to fight you) Whirly Bird would be a great AoE, too.

Also, I'd recommend we have an Immobilize power to round off Jaw Crack and Choker.

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Izzy
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'Whiplash' was suppose to

'Whiplash' was suppose to originally be like 'Choker' where the chain would wrap around their ankles and as you tug it, they fall to the ground as if you pulled the rug from under them.. and the end of the chain breaks off and they are Immobilized.. Foe tries to remove chain for a short time, but i dont remember what i called that power now. :(

Izzy
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AAlbusUUmbra wrote:
AAlbusUUmbra wrote:

... I'd reckon that if the character spun the chain segment fast enough he could build up enough velocity to do that. ...

+1 ;)
Plus, with Chain Melee, you can always purchase accessories from the in-game store that can go at the end of the chain. As long as its not too large, else it breaks believability.

And depending how they design the chain itself... you could see Whips or Rope skins for the Chain.

They would have to make any sort of accessory (end of the chain) detach itself as it makes contact with the Foe... so Leather Whips will always look plain if you are just standing still... and as you use your whip to attack, if you have a in-game store accessory that goes at the end of the whip... (I dont know... err... a Ball with nails pertruding out of it) it will be shown only as you cast the power, as though you placed the spiky Ball at the end of the whip before you flung it at the Foe.

Of course.. for magic RP'er... instead of a Spiky Ball.. a Flaming Ball. ;) Etc.. Etc.. Etc..

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It'd be cool to have some

It'd be cool to have some kind of chain-based powerset in CoT. It was never my personal "most desired" concept but I'm interested in it enough that I'd probably give it a try if it were available. I do know there were players in CoH that "really, really, really" wanted it so I'm sure they'd totally love it. :)

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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Quote:
Quote:

The opposite of KnockBack. Err.. KnockForward! ;)

In GW2 (and I am sure some other games) such an attack is called a pull. If we will have a mechanic like this anywhere in CoT, I'd recomend calling it a pull as "knock forward" is much more cumbersome.

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later on, once MWM has

later on, once MWM has created the Costume Designer for 3rd Parties to sell Costume Packs in the Game Store.. they can add support for modifying textures for Weapons as well.

Plus, Using Morph Targets, the Costume Designer can allow designers to mold pre existing Vertices of weapons into new shapes and texture them to look like something else altogether. And the Costume Designer wont need to bother with uploading any new 3D Meshes from the designer (all depends on the pre existing Morph Targets already made by MWM, more might be added later as needed).

Ohh.. Morph Targets will be controlled with Sliders... and using 20 or so Morph Targets will allow for allot of freedom in shaping an object. Not perfect, but a much simpler solution compared to creating a 3D Mesh Editor from scratch and having to train everyone on how to use it. :/ Plus, Props in the Mission / Base Designer can use the same approach, and designers could sell those too in the Game Store. Easy Peasy! ;D

More about the Costume Designer Here.

Hmm.. an example use of morph targets for Chain Melee?
Let me think.. ohh... the Spiky Ball.
One Slider could control the Height of the Spikes (if you want to make it look like a Mace), and another Slider could control the Base Width of the Spikes, so they all can look Thick, or very Thin like a Nail. :/
Or the designer can go with something much simpler... and use the sliders to not show any spikes coming out of the ball. just use another slider to make the Ball the size of a bowling ball and walla... your character just escaped from prison and uses the ball and chain as his weapon. ;D

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syntaxerror37 wrote:
syntaxerror37 wrote:

Quote:
The opposite of KnockBack. Err.. KnockForward! ;)
In GW2 (and I am sure some other games) such an attack is called a pull. If we will have a mechanic like this anywhere in CoT, I'd recomend calling it a pull as "knock forward" is much more cumbersome.

I have seen people on these forums use the term "Knock To" to describe the same move that you have suggested here.

However, using the Term "Knock To" or "Knock Forward" is just going to confuse people, because it *is* counter intuitive... if you knock into something, you hit something and it goes *away* from you.

And most other MMO's players use the term "pull" anyway for abilities/spells that pull the mob towards the caster.

Hell, we even use it *casually* over here, by "pulling mobs" with ranged attacks.

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Perhaps "hard pull" to

Perhaps "hard pull" to distinguish a power that moves the target towards you, as opposed to a "soft pull" (a tug? just a pull?) that just attracts his attention.

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Meh, I just prefer using

Meh, I just prefer using "Pull" to describe knocking enemies toward you. It's less syllables and characters that way.

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Gangrel
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AAlbusUUmbra wrote:
AAlbusUUmbra wrote:

Meh, I just prefer using "Pull" to describe knocking enemies toward you. It's less syllables and characters that way.

That is what I would be doing.

Sure, you could further refine via Hard/Soft prefixes, but just by using the term "pull" signifies that it is moving towards you.

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1) I reject your reality.... and substitute my own
2) Not to be used when upset... will void warranty
3) Stoke me a clipper i will be back for dinner
4) I have seen more intelligence from an NPC AI in TR beta, than from most MMO players.

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With context it is easy

With context it is easy enough to not get confused.
"The Whiplash power pulls the target to you."
"I'm going to try and pull the gunner around the corner"

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The potential confusion comes

The potential confusion comes when someone who has the Whiplash power says "I'm going to try and pull the gunner around the corner". Does he mean he'll use whiplash and bring the gunner closer, or does he mean he'll use some other power to get him to attack?

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LOLseriously, you guys are

LOLseriously, you guys are going over, under, around, and anywhere BUT into the simple solution: "Pull" will describe knock-forward attacks and "Taunt" will continue to describe getting an enemy's attention.

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That'll work ^_^

That'll work ^_^

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As AAlbusUUmbra said, there

As AAlbusUUmbra said, there is a fair bit of overthinking here.

Foradain wrote:

The potential confusion comes when someone who has the Whiplash power says "I'm going to try and pull the gunner around the corner". Does he mean he'll use whiplash and bring the gunner closer, or does he mean he'll use some other power to get him to attack?

I can see how this could be confusing to someone new to MMOs, though even such a person should normally pick up on the nomenclature quite quickly. For me, the context of that statement makes it clear that he means to attack the gunner and then go behind the corner (to force the enemies to come to the group, etc., etc.). In most cases, whether he attacks with a whiplash/harpoon power to literally pull the gunner closer or does a more classic attack/taunt will be irrelevant.

In any event, I agree with Gangrel:

Gangrel wrote:

However, using the Term "Knock To" or "Knock Forward" is just going to confuse people, because it *is* counter intuitive... if you knock into something, you hit something and it goes *away* from you.

On that note, I admit that I can't wait to see you guys discuss a knockback power that can be dropped onto a group of enemies, thus throwing some of them toward the team and others away from the team. :P

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Since that's pushing them

Since that's pushing them away from a central point, it's clearly Knock Out.

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Darth Fez wrote:
Darth Fez wrote:

On that note, I admit that I can't wait to see you guys discuss a knockback power that can be dropped onto a group of enemies, thus throwing some of them toward the team and others away from the team. :P

Bonfire from the Fire Control set in City of Heroes did this if you placed it correctly. And yes, I used it quite a bit. And how I used it depended on the situation. I could use it to stop runners (ie place it in their path), use to keep them at range (so they were knocked away from us), use it to keep them close to us (place it just behind them).

Or just to cause chaos.... then I would place it whereever it would knock them around.

However, because it knocked the mobs *away* from where the bonfire was placed.. it was (strictly speaking) a ranged targeted PBAOE knock back move.

Quote:

1) I reject your reality.... and substitute my own
2) Not to be used when upset... will void warranty
3) Stoke me a clipper i will be back for dinner
4) I have seen more intelligence from an NPC AI in TR beta, than from most MMO players.

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Gangrel wrote:
Gangrel wrote:

Darth Fez wrote:
On that note, I admit that I can't wait to see you guys discuss a knockback power that can be dropped onto a group of enemies, thus throwing some of them toward the team and others away from the team. :P

Bonfire from the Fire Control set in City of Heroes did this if you placed it correctly. And yes, I used it quite a bit. And how I used it depended on the situation. I could use it to stop runners (ie place it in their path), use to keep them at range (so they were knocked away from us), use it to keep them close to us (place it just behind them).
Or just to cause chaos.... then I would place it whereever it would knock them around.
However, because it knocked the mobs *away* from where the bonfire was placed.. it was (strictly speaking) a ranged targeted PBAOE knock back move.

Hmm... you just made me think of Mind Control's Telekinesis.. and its Repel status Effect. What would you call that effect if instead of Repelling.. it was Pulling the Foe to you?!? ;D

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You mean if it attracted

You mean if it attracted people to you?

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Oh my gawd, this is getting

Oh my gawd, this is getting too good. ^

*AHEM* Aaanyway. A good antonym of Repel would be Attract, as Darth Fez said.

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Izzy
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Yay.. I found the original

Yay.. I found the original Forum post for Chain Melee here: https://web.archive.org/web/20120906104843/http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=279809
I guess I only remembered half of the powers i originally posted back then.. :P hehe. :)

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this could be cool and all

this could be cool and all but i wouldn't want it to be one of the first five. their are so many other essential melee styles. Claws, Swords, Maces, Axes, Super-strength, Hammers ect. But for something to look at later on yeah\. It would also be better if it was a whip/chain set.

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Pbuckley wrote:
Pbuckley wrote:

this could be cool and all but i wouldn't want it to be one of the first five. their are so many other essential melee styles. ...

Ok. Thats cool. ;)
Just an idea i had long ago. ;D