Will we be able to pre-plan all of our power choices from level one through character completion including all of the modifications (props, effects, etc)? That way when we gain new powers the "correct" vision for the character is just realized as we level.
Or will we have to run to the costume shop every time we get a new power to tweak it (or alter the entire concept because we couldn't pre-visualize during character creation)?
Will we be able to pre-plan our character "evolution" for the time when we change Secondary Specializations (for the ones that are available at the time of character creation)? Again, that way when and if the user decides to go down that path (take a new specialization) there is no break in the action (aka, spending hours in the costume shop tweaking things).
"Just, well, update your kickstarter email addresses, okay? Make sure they're current?" - warcabbit
Pre planning really seems to be something which should be done in a off game app or website. If I am a new player to the game and don't know what every power is I need to be able to try before I buy so to speak. CO's powerhouse feature does this. one of the few things CO does right.
Especially if respecs will be limited in ANY WAY. If we cant have a FULL respec of EVERY power, then we will absolutely need to be able to extensively test before we take a power- scratch that we need the ability to full respec period. because if we don't have it, any nerf or balance change which may make us unhappy with our build afterwards will make entire characters need to be deleted and re rolled from scratch, extremely depressing and unecessary onus to the players affected.
The character creator at launch with i0 will just be costume pieces. Later, you can customize your primary / secondary powers with the aesthetics.
But you won’t be able to select your actual powers beyond level 1 powers, you won’t be able to pre-plan your argument socket placemnt either. New powers and socket assignment will occur upon earning levels and at select locations.
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Good to know!
The customization of the powers will be available during the choice of the power ? or will we choose all the powers and then we could customized them ?
I mean, it will be like in CoH (Power choice --> Slots --> Customization) ?
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If memory serves, in the old game you could customise all the powers in your Primary and Secondary sets during character creation, regardless of which of those powers you would actually choose when you reached the appropriate level.
Spurn all ye kindle.
I thought it was during a respec but i think you are right :)
I hope it will be the same in CoT (just to not have too much manners to customize our powers)
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Yep CoH basically let you "pre-customize" any or all the powers of your chosen Primary/Secondary powersets with colors and a few animation choices in the costume editor. You did not need to actually have the powers (via being high enough level) in order to customize them. This actually let you "preview" how all your powers would look long before you could use them.
But as far as being able to "pre-plan" everything about a character in terms of props, secondary build changes and all that I'm not sure the CoT Avatar builder ever needs to be that hyper-detailed. I'm sure someone, somewhere will create something like a Mids for CoT - let them handle all that stuff in a third-party app.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
I wasn't really thinking specifically about a power planner in the sense of sockets and the like. I was considering how a user forms a unified theme/concept for their powers and how they become active when the power is finally activated (when they level up).
For the sake of this argument, let's say we are making a Super Strength melee character. And that the default state for these Super Strength is to punch things with your hands. Now your character concept is a martial artist that kicks his way out of trouble. During character creation you enable some kung fu martial arts animations and choose one of the kicks for your first power.
Now, what happens when we gain access to power #2?
Do we have to go back to the costume shop and tweak it to use one of the kick animations instead of the default punch? Will the system automatically use a kicking animation since we used a kick animation for our first power? What happens if we want a mix of martial art moves and incorporate punches? What happens if we want the Brute Strength (tier 4 power) to manifest as some sort of Super Saiyan-like aura and that is not the default state?
What I am trying to get at is how thoroughly can we plan out the look and feel of the character's powers at generation?
Will we have to run back to the costume shop each time we gain a new power and spend a variable amount of time getting it "just right" before we get back on the street fighting/inflicting crime (and possibly imposing an annoying break in the action for teammates)?
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Again if just the "power customization" part of it is done just like CoH handled it we'll be able to "pre-customize" all the powers at least in our chosen primary and secondary powersets. CoH let us preset all of that so that if you only messed with that once at initial character design it would be ready for when you actually leveled up and got those powers for real. Even if you didn't mess with it at all the game automatically gave you the default colors and animations for all the powers so there will never be a need to have to go to the costume creator whenever you level up and get a new power because it'll "work" whether you customized it or not.
Of course the "post character creation" costume editor in CoH let you change any of that whenever you wanted so you didn't have to do it "all at once" if you didn't want to or allow you to edit it at any time. Until the Devs of CoT tell us otherwise there's no reason to assume these things won't eventually work pretty much the same way in CoT.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
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I am a little sad to hear that we won't have power choices at certain milestones; I rather like being able to pick between a couple of powers at certain milestones (say, every 1/4 of the way to max level) in order to make my particular build feel less same-y than the next character with the same powerset.
But I will echo that a CoH-style "pre-customisation" setup would probably be the best solution. If the power & costume customisation "remembers" the colours you used for the last power/piece - or has a way to lock the colours in place - that would be fantastic.
Characters:
* Kestrel
* Zero Break
* All-Star
Not sure what you mean by this but if you mean changing costume pieces or power aesthetics during costume creation then yes I fully expect chosen colors to "stay put" since I have not seen a character creator that was that hardwired in terms of colors. CoH had it, CO has it, so I see no reason why CoT can't have it.
I don't really think that's going to be a serious problem. Even if you choose the same powerset for two different characters, you can have completely different animations for them, your secondary is different, and your travel and tertiary powers don't have to be the same.
So, as an example, let's take a classic Super Strength Enforcer. Three characters, all chosen for the knockback and high damage Super Strength offers, right? I'll say that the first one is Scaleback, my main, and the second one can be a spoof of Bakugo from My Hero Academia, with the third one being a psychic of all things. I'll even give them all the same secondary protection power: Grit.
With Scaleback, all of her attacks are made with her body. She's massive - she's literally going to be as tall as the character creator will allow me to go for, which should be around 8 feet tall or so, with humongous arms and clawed hands. Her defenses come not from willpower, but from her mutation - She's hard to control because she has something like five times the mass of most women, is much stronger, and is harder to damage because of hard packed muscles, thick scales, and combat training. Her travel power is, of course, parkour, because she's not about to do super-jumps or flight, and she doesn't have the tech she'd need for grappling hooks. A case might be made for super speed if it's got a "bounding" run animation, rather than the "just move your legs really fast" thing.
But the Bakugo expy? His powers all come from being Mr. Explosion Hands. He holds out a hand, and the damage and knockback that come from it are from an explosion rather than a punch. That already feels much different than what Scaleback does. Even foot stomp can just be an explosion around him that knocks people down or away. His "Grit" power comes from training his body, dodging incoming attacks, and being difficult to pin down, changing him from only having a defensive power to being scary in his own right. He can get away with super jump as his travel power if there's a way to make an explosion as you jump.
And then we have a skinny psychic on the field. Her super strength comes from touch-range telekinesis - if she touches someone, she can hit them like a truck. So her combat is all about getting close and simply poking the target, at which point they'll be launched into the nearest appropriately destructible fruit stand. Her defensive power comes from defending herself with a personal force bubble that hugs her skin. Since he telekinesis is personal range, she can easily justify having flight.
Really, in this game, if your character feels the same as another character at all, it's either because it was intentional, convergent design, or a lack of creativity on the part of the person who made the character. Yeah, the mechanics will still be the same between characters, but that hardly means much when there's such a wide difference in the visuals and animations even within the same power. Even characters with the same animations can feel different in the right circumstance - Scaleback versus a combat robot, for instance.
An infinite number of tries doesn't mean that any one of those tries will succeed. I could flip an infinite number of pennies an infinite number of times and, barring genuine randomness, they will never come up "Waffles".
If you're referring to Tannim's comment:
I can't say for sure what he meant, but I didn't interpret this as our not having choices when we gain a power. I thought he was saying we won't be able to pre-select our powers when we first create a character and are still working on his/her/its initial appearance. I hope when we level up to a point where we gain a power that we will still have choices of which power to take as we did in the old game.
Spurn all ye kindle.
I took Tannim's statement to just be within the character creator.
"But [in the character creator] you won’t be able to select your actual powers beyond level 1 powers, you won’t be able to pre-plan your argument socket placemnt either."
I'm pretty sure they've already stated somewhere else that certain levels give you like, two choices of power. Not exactly how I wanted to phrase that but my brain can't seem to think of a better way.
"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."
This is correct. You can’t plan your entire character build via powers and augment slots in the AB itself. You can plan for power aesthetics - like saving costume files - if you select that power later in the game it can refercne the save file for your power aesthetics data.
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Also, if you look at the sample powers you [i]can[/i] choose between 2 power styles. iirc its at level 3 for the first time.
I believe they've stated you get two choices for the tier 3 and 7 powers, and the choice is exclusive within that tier.
So, say come Issue 0.4 or whenever a non backer can access the game.
I'd be able to say, I want fire particles on Vampiric Emanation, from the AB at level 0, but I can't choose future powers I don't have yet/don't exist.
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Avatar by MikeNovember
Can we clear this all up a little bit? (Not directed at desviper, just this topic in general.) Are we talking about [i]aesthetics[/i] or actual [i]power selection[/i]?
I'm pretty sure what Tannim means is that you can't effectively "pre-save" a BUILD (a set of power picks) in the AB, such that when you level up you automatically unlock the power you "pre-picked" NOT that you can't "pre-customize" the powers that you'll be able to pick once you reach the appropriate level.
You can predetermine what your future powers will look like, just like in CoH, but you won't be able to pre-build your character's actual power picks/training.
"I want my fireball, when I get it, to look like this." while in the AB: Yes
"I want to pick Fireball as my level 10 power." while in the AB: No.
Is this correct?
Based on Tannim's reply I'd say you have it right.
I'd change the description slightly because -- if it works as the old game did -- in the AB you'll be able to set the appearance of all the powers in your character's Primary and Secondary sets right at the start, even if you don't plan to choose some of them when the time comes. So I'd say instead:
"If I decide to choose fireball, when I get it it will look like this." while in the AB: Yes
Admittedly, it seems an odd choice of how to spend one's time to choose the appearance of any powers you know you don't plan to take, but that was certainly possible in the old game.
Spurn all ye kindle.
That's my interpretation as well.
My visualization was, form the Old City, picking an aesthetic for the whole powerset vs going into each power and changing the animations or such from there.
In CoT, we'd be able to pick the first powers, and the rest would come as they're selected, or just follow the set default.
I hope tailor trips are cheap ;)
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Avatar by MikeNovember
The intent of this thread was to gain insight into what can be crafted before the character sets foot in the game world. Aesthetics only, no augments or slots or whatever. I would want to be able to traverse through all of the powers available to the Archetype and the Specialization (primary & secondary), Tertiary & Mastery & Travel and customize how each would look (including props, firing points, animation suites, etc). Hopefully these settings could be saved so that if/when those powers get unlocked they conform to what you crafted.
Being able to fully (with the exception of whatever MWM calls the Secondary power set swap) realize what a character looks like can help form an arc (or personality) for a concept. I would prefer to be able to play around with these settings on the front end of character creation to help craft a super. Now, a few of the responses seem to be more focused on the state of the AB/CC for Issue #0 where we will not be able to access anything beyond level 1 powers.
"Just, well, update your kickstarter email addresses, okay? Make sure they're current?" - warcabbit
Again, based on Tannim's response and the way the old game worked, then I think the answer will be mostly yes. I know we can't expect everything to work as the old game did, but so far Tannim's replies are consistent with the workings of that previous game. This means that when you create a character you should be able to customise the appearance of all available powers in your Primary and Secondary sets before your character ever sets foot in the world. Not sure how this will work for travel powers and tertiary sets, especially if it's a whole set you don't select till later levels.
However, as far as I understand, we can be certain only that this applies to the full game starting with Issue 1. Tannim has already said we won't have power customisation in the first release of Issue 0. It's anyone's guess at this point when we might get access to power customisation before Issue 1, but I'd expect MWM would want to beta that before go-live.
Spurn all ye kindle.
I do not see any reason why we would not be able to set the aesthetics for every power in our primary and secondary set upon character creation, and later on most likely for every power in a single tertiary set once we've chosen one power from that set.
I see no benefit what so ever but a lot of detriments to only being able to set the aesthetics for powers we've actually chosen.
Iirc you can only get a set number of Aesthetic themes for your powers. So if they don't have multiple animations per theme (not saying this is the case) then from the get go all your powers will follow that theme.
So if you're super strength and set your aesthetic to say Fire then every super strength power you have will have a fire animation. Even if they have multiple animations then at least the power themed properly even if you wanted to change the animation.
At least that's how I imagine it working. Don't know if I explained well enough.
"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."
Not sure what you are trying to explain/argue but if I get you right then it's not that easy.
First. "Aesthetic theme" is only one part of the full power aesthetics. You also have props and emanation points to contend with. Aesthetic theme here also sounds like it being made up, what Tannim said they use internally, of the separate parts called animation suite (animation of the character itself) and FX suite (a.k.a the fire, magic, psychic, and so on looks). So a full power aesthetic is made of 4, possibly more, separate components that [b]do not[/b] come as one whole "package".
Second. From what I have read here we will get to choose two FX suites that, I'm fairly sure, are [b]not[/b] earmarked to primary and secondary respectively. So there it sounds like there is no easy way to just apply a "theme" to a power.
Third. Even if they only have a single option for animation and FX suite per power given the choices made then it is still a very good idea to have a system of being able to fully customize all of ones primary and secondary powers at character creation. But given colors, props, and emanation points there will be some customization for each and every power upon launch.
Fourth. When setting aesthetics during character creation I'm sure we will be able to set the same FX suite to all powers within the primary or secondary set in one go. Not a must to use but a good QoL thing.
You're, as far as I can tell, pretty spot on with the way I was thinking. I had forgotten about various emanation points and props.
Hopefully we'll be able to set all aesthetics from the get go. If not then hopefully they have a system in place that will automatically give us something that fits our theme till we can go and tweak it. That's assuming we don't need to stop and go somewhere to apply a level up. If we do have to go somewhere to apply a level up like in CoX and (iirc) Champions Online then it's kind of a moot point as choosing aesthetics would likely be part of the level up process.
"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."
Yes we are planning on making things easy to apply suites to all powers. Start easy, break off for more individualistic needs.
Think of the power customizations like a costume. You can choose a pre-made costume and tweak / change options from there or just go with it.
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But it's at the Developer's discretion what can be considered a suite, right? Not the player.
So if a player has a certain theme in mind to make the character they want to create in CoT, they basically have to hope that the Devs had thought of that power-effect combination beforehand, and baked it into a suite for them to have the proper effects?
Edit: Some spelling.
Yes? I’m hoping that ai understand your question and premise correctly.
Obviously we have to provide the aesthetics in order for them to be available for use. If your idea involves exploding runes and we don’t have that, well your idea isn’t fulfillable.
Suites are a collection of visuals. Animation suites are a visual; Boxing animations would be a Suite.
Visual FX are a Suite for particle fx. Fire particles effects are a visual; Fire fx would be a Suite.
If you have a Melee Set and chose those two options, your defaults would be hand sockets with boxing animations with fire around your hands.
Now you could consider that “done” and go with it just as much as selecting a pre-made Ninjja Costume could be provided and selected.
Or you could decide to go and I visualize the powers more. Maybe you want one of your attacks to be from the foot and you select that power. Choose your foot socket, and you want it to have a Martial Arts kick, and a Dark fx.
Just realize there are limits in how many themes are applicable on each level (animation and fx).
You can choose completely different weapons for each power, along with different sockets for each one, with completely different animations for each, and completely different particle fx for each. We have to limit those for a couple of reasons, some technical, some because of the probable complexity.
As we test the aesthetic decoupling system we may be able to expand upon it. Right now, we’re being conservative.
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Wise to keep it conservative, but maybe it's my eye, but aesthetic decoupling is the most intriguing and attractive part of this game ;)
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Avatar by MikeNovember
As always thanks for your replies, Tannim!
It's currently 2 props max per costume, right?
Correctamundo.
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While the current limit for props is 2 what about animation and FX suites. My understanding is that we'll be able to chose 2 FX suites, and FX suites seems to be fairly straightforward in how they are handled in that there fairly strict "lines" between the different suites.
The tricky part for me is the animation suites. First concern is the limit on the ones I can choose explicitly. While we can choose packages, like different martial arts, I'm fairly sure that we get a few of them as a base for everyone and we get a "pack" when we choose a prop. Second one is are the ones I choose explicitly "shared" with FX suites, by that I mean that if I choose boxing as animation suite can I have 1 or 2 FX suites for my powers.
Jeez, we really need a "what we can do"-style post on power aesthetics.
^^^ This is exactly the type of information that needs to be communicated by MWM in an official, easy to discover manner when Issue #0 releases.
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