Guardian Builder Challenge

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KnightMask
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Guardian Builder Challenge

With the release of the new Archetype Power Set info let's see what interesting builds we can come up with for the Support/Ranged(Sentinel) build. Let's also theorycraft ideas on the Warden and Vindicator Specs. Perhaps some of the ideas could help in those builds as well.

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I think this is especially

I think this is especially difficult to do for Guardians. While we've seen a couple of powers from each set, a good portion of what makes a support build awesome is the individual powers of it. It's not as simple as wanting to hit people wit a finesse melee set or have tough defenses through invulnerability or sheer grit.

That said, I know one of my CoH characters is getting revived for this, which means Barriers as the primary and some kind of energy or fire looking blast for the secondary. And flight. Everything else is up in the air, because I don't know what the Barrier set can actually do yet. Or what blast set would fit best since I'd imagine they can all be flavored to be generic magic blasts. I really need to see more data before being able to say much more than that... other than she'll wear a red outfit with some kind of skirt and white highlights.

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Well, I'm likely to make a

Well, I'm likely to make a Vamp/Vamp for certain... and probably a Barrier/Psi in honor of my namesake (FF/Psi defender). Strategy/* of some sort as well. Oh who am I kidding? If my alts in CoH were anything to go buy I'll probably have one of every combination.

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For Goldenrod, I am currently

For Goldenrod, I am currently thinking Preservation/Psychic. If I like it well enough, I might not switch her to Vindicator when the assault sets come out.

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I know the new Radiac will

I know the new Radiac will have Atrophic Blast as the ranged attack set. The DoT effect just seems the most "radiation-y" to me. I'm trying to decide on the primary. This may well come down to what the animations and particle effects look like for them. If I can get some nice looking "bright green energy" effects, I would consider almost any primary that has that. Leaning toward Preservation, Barrier, or Strategy currently. Preservation/Lethal sounds like it would most closely simulate the Rad/Rad I had in CoH, but that was chosen because the powers were both "radiation" in terms of theme and graphics. Given the freedom to choose the power mechanics separate from the graphics, I could see a lot of different options, being doable and could decide on a much different play style.

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If i got guardian rather than

If i got guardian rather than ranger (all dependant on the masteries) I will be Strategy/Lethality

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are there going to a full

are there going to a full heal set and of the choices what would be the one to pick from ??

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Closest that we have seen to

Closest that we have seen to a heal set is Preservation in the Support sets. Click the Character Construction button under Guides, then click the Power Sets button, then Support sets to look at all the options.

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Nice guess I’ll have to wait

Nice guess I’ll have to wait to play each set to see which I’ll like best don’t see any aoe or single heal for support looks like you have to attack to heal not real fond of sets like that but have to wait and see how it plays out

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Here's what we have on

Here's what we have on Support sets, so far. https://cityoftitans.com/content/support-sets

Be Well!
Fireheart

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Having played a healer in

Having played a healer in world of Warcraft city of heroes and Everquest 2 I didn’t see any aoe or single target heals most look like shield or attacks but still to early to say since I’ll have to play each to see

KnightMask
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Yeah they've only shown us

Yeah they've only shown us two powers from every set but I'd wager that there are both of those in some fashion in the Preservation set. The tier 6 power shown does say it casts heal over time in an area around the player. The other powers no doubt will have a heal component as well.

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Mind-Freeze wrote:
Mind-Freeze wrote:

Having played a healer in world of Warcraft city of heroes and Everquest 2 I didn’t see any aoe or single target heals most look like shield or attacks but still to early to say since I’ll have to play each to see

Keep in mind you haven’t seen all the powers, and these are only launch sets.


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Thanks for the response I

Thanks for the response I know it’s still early and anything can change until launch was just curious from what was given but good to know progress is happening

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Mind-Freeze wrote:
Mind-Freeze wrote:

Having played a healer in world of Warcraft city of heroes and Everquest 2 I didn’t see any aoe or single target heals most look like shield or attacks but still to early to say since I’ll have to play each to see

From the description Preservation sounds to be closer to how Thermal Radiation was in CoH, but I guess you want something more towards Empathy?

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Yeah of all the games I have

Yeah of all the games I have played through the years as a healer I always felt city of heroes empathy set was the best ever . It was all around fun you had clear mind for holds stuns fortitude for defense and the 2 aura regeneration for endurance and health and with the global sets I even had my ab boost on perma so it was up before the timer ran out on it so that was always fun for end heavy players so I will have to see what city of titans holds for future healers and wait to see the full list of all powers

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I had a Rad Emission and

I had a Rad Emission and aKinetic and I thought both of those were awesome. The Rad could debuff stuff and make fights agaisnt Archvillains etc go way faster, and the Kinetic could Speed Boost people and cast a REALLY good heal called Transfusion, which even made Tankers go "Hey, what healed me? I ACTUALLY saw my HP go back up...".

Not to mention EMP and Fulcrum Shift. Defenders were the cat's meow in CoH #CoXnostalgia

R.S.O. of Phoenix Rising

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I loved how even in the

I loved how even in the craziest of battles when you said gather for auras everyone flew to the empathy buffs lol

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Mind-Freeze wrote:
Mind-Freeze wrote:

I loved how even in the craziest of battles when you said gather for auras everyone flew to the empathy buffs lol

Defenders confirmed Oprahs of the CoX world.

"YOU get an empathy buff! YOU get an empathy buff!"

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Checking under my seat...

Checking under my seat... Popcorn, lint..ohhh Empathy Buff! and a new car?

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So that's where we parked!

So that's where we parked!

Has anyone seen my mind? It was right here...

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Radiac wrote:
Radiac wrote:

I had a Rad Emission and aKinetic and I thought both of those were awesome. The Rad could debuff stuff and make fights agaisnt Archvillains etc go way faster, and the Kinetic could Speed Boost people and cast a REALLY good heal called Transfusion, which even made Tankers go "Hey, what healed me? I ACTUALLY saw my HP go back up...".
Not to mention EMP and Fulcrum Shift. Defenders were the cat's meow in CoH #CoXnostalgia

I agree with that. Tempest Master was a Storm Summoning/Lightning 'fender, and he was so much fun to play. Unfortunately, I am not certain there is going to be a way to create a Storm based on the current set available (and, TBI, even with other sets coming). The best part of the Storm Summoner were the various types of debuffs/buffs they were capable of - Minor healing, Knockback/up, Disorient, Fear, Debuffs to Accuracy, Speed, Recharge, Defense, Resistance, Range... and then there was Mr.Blinky (Thunderstorm). Current power sets tend to concentrate on one type of damage/effect which does not fit well with the broad range of abilities covered by SS.

I am wondering if they might consider creating a "hybrid" power set that allows you to pick from any set in the Archtype, but only of the same level. This would prevent the cherry picking of completely open power choice, as you could only chose one Level 1 power, one Level 2, etc... Not only would this make SS possible, but also make sorcery/cosmic power sets available which are designed to have wide ranging effects.

So far, there isn't yet a ranged set that mimics the lightning secondary (with its End debuff) but I think it will come and it will likely work "as is" compared to CoX.

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One of the things that was

One of the things that was unique and attractive to me about CoX was the Defender class. It wasn't necessarily a healer as much as it was a swiss army class of a whole assortment of tools to make battles easier. Some defenders were the knife, some the corkscrew and some the screwdriver; you never knew what you would get when you got a defender on your team, but whichever implement you got, it would most likely be helpful.

I made a Trick Arrow/Archery defender that had no heals. And my Storm/Electric defender only had the one ally-only heal.

And it looks like CoT is following suit. The Strategy power set looks to be similar in that it is primarily about placing the appropriate buffs and debuffs on friends and enemies rather than preventing or healing damage.

And what would a spiritual successor to CoX be without bubbles? The Barrier Generation set looks to follow in its footsteps as well.

The following quote is from the Kickstarter Update How it Works: Powerset Design

Quote:

To create a Power Set, we must first define its Basic Playstyle. The Basic styles are Melee, Ranged, Control, Support, Protection, and Summons. Then we move on to the next level: Focused Playstyle. Each Basic Playstyle has four Focused Playstyles under it. For example, Melee has Single Target Focused, Area Effect Focused, Standard Melee, and Utility Focused. Each of these Focused Playstyles generate a basic template for the Power Set.

So I am going to take a stab at the four Focused Play Styles we will get with the Defender archetype.

  1. Barriers/Bubbles/Force Fields. Whatever you want to call them, this playstyle focuses on the prevention or mitigation of damage received. I see this in the Preservation and Barrier Generation power sets. With Preservation showing itself to be a bit more general in nature while Barrier Generation is a bit more focused on the mitigation.
  2. Buff/Debuff generator. This playstyle focuses on making fights easier by reducing enemy target capabilities while increasing friendly target capabilities. I see this in the Strategy power set
  3. Summoner. This all-around playstyle places objects on the battlefield that perform the buffs, debuffs, barriers and heals. I see this in the Devices power set;
  4. Leech. This playstyle requires actions to be taken against opponents, harming and/or reducing their capabilities, in order to benefit your friendly targets by healing or increasing their capabilities. I see this in the Vampiric Emanation power set.

We won't really know until we see the full suite of powers, and it could be that Preservation and Devices have more in common than Preservation and Barrier Generation, but this is my first stab at the four Focused Play Styles of the Guardian archetype.


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The Focused Playstyles are

The Focused Playstyles are actually:

Buff Focused
Debuff Focused
Standard
Location

Buff and Debuff focused may have buffs as well, some of them being an additonal effect to the focus.
Standard has a more balanced mix of buffs / debuffs focused on casting to target.
Location offers additional utilities and a balanced mix of buffs / debuffs casting at a location.


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I hope that, if there isn't a

I hope that, if there isn't a guardian spec similar to the CoH Defender - Empathy class at launch, that there will be eventually.

All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.

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jtpaull wrote:
jtpaull wrote:

I hope that, if there isn't a guardian spec similar to the CoH Defender - Empathy class at launch, that there will be eventually.

At Launch, we will have the equivalents of Corruptor and Defender ATs from CoH. I doubt we'll see an 'Empathy' powerset, but we have 'Preservation' which appears to have similar functionality.

Be Well!
Fireheart

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Ah yes. Empathy. That lazy

Ah yes. Empathy. That lazy set. The one people usually looked at in the end and went "We'd be better off with so many others, as that set does nothing for the team anymore."

:p

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OOOOooooo (notes the ':p') .

OOOOooooo (notes the ':p') ....kay!

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I loved playing a Defender in

I loved playing a Defender in CoH until set IOs. It all became too easy then. I tended to put my Empath on follow, with hover, fully tactics, manuevers, etc, endo or heal aura on auto, depending, usually endo, and 2 fortitude buffs up perma, plus everyone had CM running except one player and me. I did that mostly so I'd have something to do. Otherwise I'd fall asleep.

I felt the CoV set (I forget the name - Heat something. Lmgtfy) that was similar was more balanced for active gameplay and overall seemed more fun to play. I hope Preservation plays more like that than like Empath

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Empathy was my favorite class

Empathy was my favorite class to play. There were times when it seemed almost pointless because of all the other buffs, but I never got close to being bored with it. I'd just up my expectation...no one drops below 50%/75% health, etc.

All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.

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dreamcatcher wrote:
dreamcatcher wrote:

I loved playing a Defender in CoH until set IOs. It all became too easy then. I tended to put my Empath on follow, with hover, fully tactics, manuevers, etc, endo or heal aura on auto, depending, usually endo, and 2 fortitude buffs up perma, plus everyone had CM running except one player and me. I did that mostly so I'd have something to do. Otherwise I'd fall asleep.

I felt the CoV set (I forget the name - Heat something. Lmgtfy) that was similar was more balanced for active gameplay and overall seemed more fun to play. I hope Preservation plays more like that than like Empath

I think you mean Thermal Radiation. Mostly defensive but had little offensive capability
Though later they also got Pain Domination. This was closer to Empathy in terms of power structure though it did have one offensive power.

It seems that Empathy was almost exclusively targeted to enhancing defensive capabilities while, outside of heals, Pain was more towards enhancing offensive capabilities and Thermal was kinda in the middle.

Not sure where I would put Preservation though.

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My Dark Dark Defender was

My Dark Dark Defender was more of an 'Offender', using snipe and traps to lead the enemy to their own destruction. With just a little lead-time I'd debuff the targets to utter incapacity and suck all of the juice out of them to keep my teammates healthy.
Mad Scrappers were difficult to work with because they would impatiently charge anything and go beyond my healing range, then cry about being hurt. I enjoyed playing with more experienced teammates, who had a solid mental model of what I was able to do and then worked within that model to maximize Everyone's performance.
That's what I always tried to do, myself. Leverage my knowledge of what others were able to do for mutual success. Of course, that sometimes depended on partners who knew what they were capable of.
I had almost 200 alts, from exploring what other ATs and builds could do.

Be Well!
Fireheart

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The dark powers from CoX had

The dark powers from CoX had some great tricks.

"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."

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Including the one that Always

Including the one that Always got me murdered - Howling Twilight, to resurrect all of my dead teammates.

Be Well!
Fireheart

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"Rez me!"

"Rez me!"

"I can't! I used it as a debuff and it's still recharging :)"

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Brand X wrote:
Brand X wrote:

"Rez me!"

"I can't! I used it as a debuff and it's still recharging :)"

*Grin*

That too!

It was probably one of the most powerful abilities in CoH, but it definitely needed Recharge and Debuff enhancements.

Be Well!
Fireheart

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Fireheart wrote:
Fireheart wrote:

Including the one that Always got me murdered - Howling Twilight, to resurrect all of my dead teammates.

Oil Slick + Howling Twilight = Raid-wide Resurrect

Documented as having made Back Alley Brawler (the Dev) so shocked he thought he was looking at an exploit the first time he saw it during a stress test on the Test Server.


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Redlynne wrote:
Redlynne wrote:
Fireheart wrote:

Including the one that Always got me murdered - Howling Twilight, to resurrect all of my dead teammates.

Oil Slick + Howling Twilight = Raid-wide Resurrect

Documented as having made Back Alley Brawler (the Dev) so shocked he thought he was looking at an exploit the first time he saw it during a stress test on the Test Server.

Did they ever end up nerfing that? I never really used defenders, preferring to face plant as a blapper or scranker more often than anything else. They were willing to keep it in the game?

That’s a ridiculously powerful ability!

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They kept it in the game

They kept it in the game because it was a "Clever Use Of Game Mechanics" to do it, so it wasn't an exploit per se.

Oil Slick HAD TO BE classified as a "Foe" object so that it could be targeted by attacks that would light it up and set it on fire.
Howling Twilight required a "Foe" be the target of the power in order to resurrect all friendlies within range of the power's effect.
So Oil Slick became an easy way to deploy a "Foe" on demand for Howling Twilight to resurrect masses of friendlies. The fact that it COULD be used this way was unforseen by the Devs. It wasn't an "exploit" per se, but it sure felt like one the first time Back Alley Brawler saw it happen in game while monitoring.


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Redlynne wrote:
Redlynne wrote:

They kept it in the game because it was a "Clever Use Of Game Mechanics" to do it, so it wasn't an exploit per se.

Oil Slick HAD TO BE classified as a "Foe" object so that it could be targeted by attacks that would light it up and set it on fire.
Howling Twilight required a "Foe" be the target of the power in order to resurrect all friendlies within range of the power's effect.
So Oil Slick became an easy way to deploy a "Foe" on demand for Howling Twilight to resurrect masses of friendlies. The fact that it COULD be used this way was unforseen by the Devs. It wasn't an "exploit" per se, but it sure felt like one the first time Back Alley Brawler saw it happen in game while monitoring.

That’s really neat. I keep learning so much about the game I’ve missed for almost six years now you’d think I never played it. What an awesome use of the power... like superheroes in the comics and movies learning new features and new creative ways to use their powers.

That’s how it should be imo!

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The best part of Oil Slick +

The best part of Oil Slick + Howling Twilight is that the Slick can't aggro and attack the caster!

That was always my biggest problem with the power. Sure, I heal everyone, but I earn so much Aggro, it's ridiculous and suicidal!

Be Well!
Fireheart

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Naturally. I found that, even

Naturally. I found that, even then, I was bored. It got so my bar was 95%. Very rarely, I would actually need to use a heal. When I was running my aura it was up more than it was down, by quite a bit. I ran haste in order to allow that to happen, but I was purely defensive, so I had power slots to spare. I like the idea of playing a full support character; it just wasn't the right move for me when playing an Empath. I think Dark would have been more my speed, but I couldn't level any more Defenders so I slept in the bed I made myself. I mostly played Scrappers/ Tanks so it's not like I was on it very often. Only when we clearly needed it when the team was struggling. That didn't make it any less boring, unfortunately.

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Fireheart wrote:My Dark Dark
Fireheart wrote:

My Dark Dark Defender was more of an 'Offender', using snipe and traps to lead the enemy to their own destruction.

A lot of people did that (play Offenders), but if I play support, I go full support, so it wasn't an option for me. If I'd been a different set and concept.. maybe.

So, I wasn't thinking of attacking when I said it got boring, I was thinking of the way the support powers played. Other support sets did it better, I think, or so it seems to me. My Dark corruptor was somewhat fun; the debuffs were crazy. Rad was OP. Kin looked engaging and versatile. TA didn't appeal to me but people enjoyed it, they said. I know many people loved Empath, but wasn't for me after it became so easy to maintain a party. I enjoyed it thoroughly before that when I had to do more, when people were taking more damage.

Don't forget that when Set IOs were out, most active players got them on at least one character. The overall damage profile changed massively. Enpaths just had less to do suddenly. About the onbly parts of TFs that remained challenging were the TF final bosses, depending on your party comp, and then only up to a point.

Tl;Dr On my Empath I started hoping for and looking for bad or very inexperienced parties, because then I had more to do, and it was more fun. With my usual cadre of friends (of which I unusually had many) I played other roles, unless people decided to roll with "no IO" builds. That was pretty fun most times.

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I still plan on my main being

I still plan on my main being whatever CoT's closest class to Empathy is. I've always found the healer to be the funnest class for me in any MMO I've played that had one. It is harder to solo, but I normally don't have to. Especially in CoH where I could go heal teams of any level with the level adjustment thing. Man I loved all the green in CoH from healing.

All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.

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For me it entirely depended

For me it entirely depended on the character I was playing.

Some characters were for group support, but others I were basically blasters to me (my Time/Fire for instance), where I healed/buffed myself, if doing so just so happened to benefit you too, well all the better then.

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As much as I tried, I just

As much as I tried, I just couldn't get my Dual Pistols/Time to get the DPS I wanted, but was still so much fun to play :) Could fight on a non melee without hover to keep out of range! :)

OathboundOne
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Oh yeah, Time/Fire didn't

Oh yeah, Time/Fire didn't have great DPS either, it did help though that Defender's Fire Blast still used Blaster scales for Rain of Fire (cause pseudo-pet) up till near the end there. Plus Blaze's super fast 1s animation.

He was just so durable (softcapped defense, hardcapped S/L resist, heals, debuffs, mez protection via Incarnates) that raw DPS output hardly ever mattered. He just stood there while things melted around him.

I never managed to get a DP character leveled very far, I actually found the animations *too* flashy. I just didn't care much for them (plus I hated redraw).

Brand X
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Yeah, redraw is suckie, but I

Yeah, redraw is suckie, but I don't recall it being to bad with /Time, but there was still some. I however, LOVED the FLASHY! OMG! LOVE LOVE LOVE! :)

Redlynne
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I wonder if we'll be able to

I wonder if we'll be able to make a "Time Manipulation" style of powerset out of Strategy. Give it "swirly" and "streaming" visual and sound FX and ...


Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.
Brand X
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I used /Time to make a Regen

I used /Time to make a Regen/Super Reflex blaster basically :)

Ankhammon
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I know, I know necro posting.

I know, I know necro posting....

I tried out Time/Cold and fell in love. The rain damage was fairly close with the fire version and blizzard made it so I could clear out a room at a time when i wanted to. Plus, the slow de-buffs added so sweetly to what Time/ was doing that I could basically play tank with it.

As for DP, I had a Nature Affinity/DP character I was working on at close that was just better than imagined. Yes, the redraw and flashyness was a bit over the top, but DP could just drop damage (toxic ammo) like crazy and that combo was able to take out AV level Manticore by level 28ish. Overall, a very good combo and I think DP was underrated but best left in the hands of defenders.
Now that char could put out some damage after level 38... just don't run out of your anti-mez pills.

Lothic
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Ankhammon wrote:
Ankhammon wrote:

I know, I know necro posting....

At least you acknowledged what you did which absolves like 95% of the guilt. ;)

Ironically I personally don't care that much when people necropost as long as they mention that's what they're doing.

The part that really bothers me about it is when a poster doesn't mention it and you sit there trying to figure out where an entire thread came from until you realize the guy just decided to respond to a "previous post" that's maybe multiple years old like it just appeared there five minutes ago. D'oh!

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

Super M.
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Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:
Ankhammon wrote:

I know, I know necro posting....

At least you acknowledged what you did which absolves like 95% of the guilt. ;)

Ironically I personally don't care that much when people necropost as long as they mention that's what they're doing.

The part that really bothers me about it is when a poster doesn't mention it and you sit there trying to figure out where an entire thread came from until you realize the guy just decided to respond to a "previous post" that's maybe multiple years old like it just appeared there five minutes ago. D'oh!

Or like when someone necros a thread to argue on the last line of something that hasnt been talked about in months....

Lothic
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Super M. wrote:
Super M. wrote:
Lothic wrote:
Ankhammon wrote:

I know, I know necro posting....

At least you acknowledged what you did which absolves like 95% of the guilt. ;)

Ironically I personally don't care that much when people necropost as long as they mention that's what they're doing.

The part that really bothers me about it is when a poster doesn't mention it and you sit there trying to figure out where an entire thread came from until you realize the guy just decided to respond to a "previous post" that's maybe multiple years old like it just appeared there five minutes ago. D'oh!

Or like when someone necros a thread to argue on the last line of something that hasnt been talked about in months....

Yep I hate that as well - so much so that I've have yet to ever necro a thread like that on this forum.

At worst I've posted to a semi-dead thread after someone else has necro'd it back to life. But if it's a "sleeping dog" I'll let it lie until someone else steps on its tail. ;)

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012